| Author |
Message |
   
Kingman
Member
Post Number: 677
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:13 pm: | 
|
Hi Sitkaa,
Regarding which condition would best benefit mankind in a time known for its high fertile moment, more bodies, or less bodies,
I would think that quality, not quantity, would be a realistic position for evolution to flow in the better Creational manner.
a friend in america
Shawn
|
Ramirez
Member
Post Number: 302
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 03:12 am: |
|
Greetings Thomas.
Now how did you stumble upon the Giza Boys master plan ?
Cheers.
|
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:01 pm: |
|
Thanks for the responses. It is abit different to think about overpopulation as a potentially good thing, so it is nice to bounce off of people who can handle the mental gymnastics. This is only a hypothetical consideration of how to approach overpopulation, not a realistic one. I have studied the problem in detail, and have determined with some authority that overpopulation is a real problem for us.
Among the potential solutions are included opening up greater land masses for our use by colonizing big holes underground, or underwater, or on other planetary bodies, or on artificial satellites. (This does not take into consideration how wise such actions might be...) The initial problem persists, however, namely overbreeding ourselves as fast as possible without concern for the quality of either life or the persons that are produced.
Erhlich's IPAT scheme is kinda simplistic, and he is pretty rigid in his thinking anyway. Still, in making an equation out of the scheme - the impact can become a negative number if we are improving the environment (which is Erhlich's ultimate goal).
Here is another equation for you:
(Society = environment * technology * culture)
Changing society requires us to change at least one element in the equation. The easiest one to change is also the hardest one to get people to agree to - culture.
It is late and I must reset my noodle for abit. Don't know that we will do anything more than futilely determine the world's solutions on this board, kinda like flapping our lips to start a breeze on hot summer day.
Post Script: where could I learn more about this Omega Point thingy from the Plerajan perspective?
Hi Sitkaa,
I gave a lot of thought to your statement
“1) Suppose we were more efficient in the use of Earth's resources, and just suppose we could figure out how to add value to our world, add diversity and life to the Earth, rather than subtract from it. Would this not mean the more people we have around the merrier?”
Earth already has value and diversity to it and that’s why human life naturally developed in it. There’s a carrying capacity of every planet that’s not only dependant on how efficiently we use our available resources but a host of other factors.
Consider the Paul Ehrlichs ipat equation I = P * A * T
Where:
I is the impact on the environment resulting from consumption
P is the population number
A is the consumption per capita (affluence)
T is the technology factor
Now what I understand from your point no. 1 is a system where P, A, T is of high value (usage) but I is still less. Let’s for once assume future technology to be driven by clean energy sources and also
i) Enabling better utilisations of arable land.
ii) Enabling genetically modified trees which would be 10 times more oxygen producing thus the world requiring less forest cover.
iii) Enabling a miracle waste management technology thus a perfect and cleanest elimination of waste.
iv) Enabling generation of unlimited fresh water for human consumption.
V) Enabling best distribution system
With these facts, T in fact helps in reducing environmental footprint. So we have something like I = P * A / T
That’s possible scenario even though it’s improbable and unlikely in the short to medium term (we are more likely to develop better war machines than these technologies).
Flow 1(current): Technology being misused -> I = P * A * T -> more suffering and eventual collapse of the ecosystem and world chaos, war -> reduction of A -> famine, drought, reduction of T -> forced reduction of P
Flow 2(desired): Technology is properly used -> I = P * A / T -> even more desire for A to increase and I to decrease due to lessons learnt** -> voluntary optimisation of P/emigration to other planets
**There’s a problem sustaining this model because even with the i=pa/t equation, spiritual need is not taken care of. With all usable place used for living, working, cultivating, leisure and commerce there would be very little place with available serenity where we humans can enjoy personal time and observe the vastness of nature with all the eco cycle in full blossom and learn from Creations Creation first hand.
In both the flows, Population willingly or unwillingly decreases in earth.
Omega Point was originally a religious thought and hinges on the assumption that everything gravitates towards a maximum complexity or maximum evolution (God conciousness) and “more is better because it helps solve the complex system” and once that state is reached, we start from beginning point zero. But we in this forum know that while there is the cycle (each time better than previous), there is no maximum or mandatory tipping point from where Creation will set itself to learn from zero – there’s constant evolution. There is also the law of cause and effect where if we have something excess we also have to suffer the consequence.
Tschüß
Love is always the way
|
Ramirez
Member
Post Number: 305
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 08:42 pm: |
|
Here is a blog with some nicely summarized intelligent thoughts on overpopulation and it's effects.
http://www.animalsdinosaursandbugs.com/peter%20blog/index.php?blog=3&page=1&paged=1
Cheers.
|
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 65
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 09:14 pm: |
|
Two links forwarded to me by Anthea:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2009/2009-10-19-093.asp
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17864-no-rainforest-no-monsoon-get-ready-for-a-warmer-world.html |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 06:06 pm: |
|
You are preaching to the choir.
I would refer you to my website (www.altruisticprojects.com), but I just tried it and for the most part it isn't working. I am not a techie and don't know why. I haven't been fiddling with it anyway lately. (Just been overwhelmed by another situation, one which shouldn't take over my life, but it has anyway.)
Yu can try the website, and poke around there. If nothing else it should provide a variety of links, demonstrating the breadth of the overpopulation challenges that face us.
Love is always the way
|
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 06:09 pm: |
|
By the way, to reiterate a question, does anybody know about the Plejaran perspective on the potential Omega Point happenstance? Where have they talked about it? Would love to learn more about that.
Love is always the way
|
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 05:24 am: |
|
Hello Sitkaa,
Why don't you ask Billy about Plejaren perspective on the Omega point?
Tschüß |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 06:49 am: |
|
Smukhuti,
Is the Omega Point consciousness change idea not already address somewhere in the previously published material?
I didn't know that it was possible for someone like me (not part of the core group) to contact Billy. I thought he was somewhat insulated, as well as busy. How does one go about asking Billy a question - send him an email?
Thanks,
m
Love is always the way
|
Stephen_moore
Member
Post Number: 185
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 02:32 pm: |
|
Hi all
There is no way around overpopulation. None!!
If was had for example clean energy and didnt use polluting fossil fuels we would still all need somewhere to live. To house 8 billion plus and rising humans would mean we would destroy forests and arable land.
If we house people on cities in that float or stand just above the oceans how would we all breath. The oxygen level on Earth is limited. Animals and Humans all breath oxygen. There is a limit.
If we did house humans in cities over oceans how would we all eat. there is only so much land we can use and if we over kill animals for food then they will become extinct.
If we could some how house and feed and breath a population of 8 billion plus how would the tectonic plates hold all the weight of the cities. We are stressing the tectonic plates now with about 7.7 billion humans.
My point is we cannot solve all the problems that overpopulation gives us. We may solve one or 2 but the rest of the problems will continue to rise. Thus there are no short cuts around overpopulation.
The only solution is to stop the increasing overpopulation and reduce numbers down to a safe level.
We either do that ourselves or we just sit back and let nature do her work on us.
I personally wish we do it ourselves. For one it would be a good learning curve for humanity and two it will be humane and without destruction.
Thanks
My new Website address - www.ufofacts.co.cc
|
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 62
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 06:17 pm: |
|
Hello Sitkaa,
Christian may know about anything mentioned about "Omega Point" in this forum or you can wait for the "Your question to Billy Meier - Answered" section to open anywhere near the third week of the month.
Tschüß |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 04:00 pm: |
|
There is an herb that I have heard about (it was used by the Maya I believe, but don't quote me on that) that stopped people from having children anymore. Additionally, the Plejaren have mentioned using a similar (or same?) herb for the same purpose. Have the Plejaren elaborated any further on that, and/or could they give this herb to us, since we already seem to have it hidden away in Meso-America? Do they know how it is used, and any contra-indications?
Obviously this might help people in less developed countries who have no access to modern medicine. On the other hand, it could also be very easily viewed as threatening to the viability of the (Earth-based) human race by some people.
Love is always the way
|
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 03:28 am: |
|
Hi Sitkaa....
You are correct, concerning the Plejaran usage.
I have heard similar information from my Jndjsch side of the family. Such
plants/herbs seem to be present in Indonesia, and utilized, to those who know.
[As was once discussed in the past, here...]
I think I also read of the Mayan/South American Indians. Seems, the African
continent also have such knowledge. And which would have very positive
results, if it could be utilized in a proper practice? [BUT: Beware of MONEY
Wolves...whom may want exploit it beyond our...imagination....!!!]
Alas, due to the Global Colonization factor, much of their forefather's Ways
Of Life...has disappeared. Would be positive if some of their ways could
surface once again, though....not?
I have not further information Plejaran related, though. Perhaps some else can
contribute, some details??
Edward. |
Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 88
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 11:04 am: |
|
My understanding of this herbal remedy is that it affects women more than men. However, let me emphasize that I don't know exactly what effects it has upon the body, nor of any contraindications.
Just to conjecture for a moment. If the herb mostly works on women, then might it not be best promoted and administered by women? I envision this as a women's-only not-for-profit clinic, run by and for women. Were men to be involved in the decision making of this clinic it would probably be more easily interpreted as some nefarious attempt to reduce the human population.
Initial funding for such a clinic could come from the UN, World Bank, state-level backing, private donors, and volunteers. Given our current economic system, handing out the herb (and any related services) would have to be conducted via monetary exchanges in order to be sustained into relative perpetuity (at least until we no longer use money). Donations could help, though: there are many areas of the world where coming up with enough money to cover this expense might be a problem for women.
Policies for handing out this herb should be developed by women, but of course we all have opinions. Mine is that it shouldn't be given to a woman who has had no children unless there is concern for some extenuating circumstance, such as a mental despondency, or a transmissible incurable disease, or a dire genetic defect. But really, that should be up to women to decide what is right and what isn't, not men.
At least this gives the world another potentially inexpensive venue to curtail rampant population growth, especially in the less-developed world.
Love is always the way
|
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 103
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 08:57 am: |
|
James Moore got really very good information in the futureofmankind site - eye opener!
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Population_Table_2009/
James, if you are reading this, how did you calculated the "time overpopulated" column?
Salome |
Kingman
Member
Post Number: 704
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:22 am: |
|
United States of America (USA)
Surface(km/2), 9,161,923
Arable land, 18%
Permanent Pasture, 26%
Possible Population, 48,374,953
Total people, 307,212,123
Times overpopulated, 6.66
6.66.... That figures!
a friend in america
Shawn
|
Marbar
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 05:24 am: |
|
If herbal this remedy is real, it could help with the overpopulation problem. Or, if a person ended up being a sex offender he/she would take this remedy instead of the pain of being castrated. I heard in the Talmud Jmmanuel that if someone did something to be a sex offender, he/she she be casterated and isolated. |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 109
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 09:27 am: |
|
Hey, maybe the word is finally getting out:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/10/content_9151129.htm
Population control called key to deal
By Li Xing (China Daily)
Updated: 2009-12-10 07:37
COPENHAGEN: Population and climate change are intertwined but the population issue has remained a blind spot when countries discuss ways to mitigate climate change and slow down global warming, according to Zhao Baige, vice-minister of National Population and Family Planning Commission of China (NPFPC) .
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=2314438
The real inconvenient truth
The whole world needs to adopt China's one-child policy
Diane Francis, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 |
Darren
Member
Post Number: 87
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 02:51 pm: |
|
"The whole world needs to adopt China's one-child policy"
even in low populated countries like Australia? |
Kingman
Member
Post Number: 711
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 04:58 pm: |
|
Overpopulation is the 800 pound gorilla in the room everyone seems to step around on their way to the podium to speak in Copenhagen.
a friend in america
Shawn
|
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 110
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:52 am: |
|
Check out this guy's research:
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/global_warming/global_warming_denial_machine.html |
Sanjin
Member
Post Number: 81
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 01:26 pm: |
|
Hey Marbar, that was just a bad translation. Although, castration would in some serious cases be a good solution as in repeated child molestation, repeated rape, etc...
36.The human is another person, when, surrounded by the rays of the heavenly creational sunrise, the pure delight of awakening nature streams through him.
|
Marbar
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 04:56 am: |
|
Sanjin, thank you for pointing that out.
Darren, about the "One-Child Policy", the United States, especially Mexico, and other heavy populated countries needs to follow that policy. |
|
