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Message |
   
Imaginosdesdinova
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 - 11:10 am: | 
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Thank you Jacob for your time.
Salome.
"I'm a truth addict... ahhh Sh!t I got a head rush!" - Zack
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 2115
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 04:24 am: |
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Hi Jacob...
Concerning your: the human spirit form is the most powerful spiritform. The
spiritform of a blue wale is a lot lower then a human spirit.
That is WHAT I meant with Distinction of the both from each other.
The rest you mentioned I am quite familiar with. Thus, my main point was the
Distinction factor of the above mentioned. What you mentioned I have already
mentioned in the past, here, in posts.
Of course the Spirit-Power and Spirit-form can not be separated: they make up
the Creational Duality, in their existence, for both their usage.
I was mainly, again, making Distinction of the two in our/my conversation.
That is all. Two separate Elements working in (Creational) Duality, of course.
Speaking of: in their Separate Element structure/manifestation, aside from their
functioning in Duality; that is all.
This/that is where you Misunderstood me, Jacob.
Well, we all speak to each other's Persona, here in this board, and I was not
taking it Personally, as you may think it was(: it was just my Assertiveness);
you, thought that I was...very Personally to you, when in fact this was not
so. That is why I mentioned at the end of that posting: Not to take it
Personally; in the sense, not to take it in a Negative way, but as Constructive Critique, which you can learn from, as we all do.
But, I hope you can understand my Distinction of the bother, now?[Everything
you added in your post: I am familiar with....]
Edward. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 2117
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 04:46 am: |
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Hi All...
Spell error on: But, I hope you can understand my Distinction of the bother,
now?
Bother, should be: both....
Apologies...
Edward. |
Bronzedesk
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 05:02 am: |
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Dearest Edward,
Very well spoken, I'm very proud of you! We are getting much closer to the source of things to come!
"Creation doesn't give us what we want! We give creation what it ultimately needs! And anyone who never has made a mistake in his whole entire life has never ever tried to do anything new."
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Nuetralperson
Member
Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 01:02 pm: |
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I have a couple questions. 1. When the spirit form reaches its highest point graduating to the pure spirit form, what type of life does it live? In other words, does it (create) new galaxies or types of animals? 2. The inevitable contraction period or 'great sleep of creation' occurs I understand its just a nothing ness. My question, what happens to the pure spirit forms after the contraction is completed? Lastly 3. What is to be understood when the pure forms merge with creation? What exactly does this mean? -Alex |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 691
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 12:09 am: |
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1) When the spiritform becomes a pure spiritform, its evolving very quickly in a pure spiritual way, what the pure spiritform does besides that is unknown to me.
2)There is no nothingness when the Creation is contracted and in slumber, only the material universe does not exist, but the Creation as spiritual entity still exist, its just active in a different way then it is now.
3) When the pure-spiritforms from the level of Petale reach a state of highest relative perfection they do merge with the Creation / Universal Consciousness, and become one, the individuality of the spirit merges with the Creation and becomes aware as the Creation, because the spirit as such seized to exist and has become the Creation. Rest assured that EVERY spiritform which has had at least one incarnation as human being, regardless where it exists in this Universe, will reach its goal.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 379
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 01:06 am: |
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Hi Jacob,
In the article: " Thoughts about the Sentence: I Always Remain Relaxed and Thereby Gain Might over Myself”...
http://www.theyfly.com/I_Always_Remain_Relaxed.htm
There seems to be given the definitions and meaning of "Self", "I/Ego" & Personality...
"The self is obviously a hypothetical construct. Translated into normal language, this means: the self is a constructive idea used to help describe things or characteristics, which are not concretely observable, but merely inferable from what is observed.
The self is certainly not an organ, just as the "I"/Ego is not; instead, certain impulses/impulsations in a specific frequency range define the self and the "I"/Ego as well as the other consciousness-block-programs/-processes, otherwise it would be impossible for the overall-consciousness-block to build these in the death-life for the consciousness-block. Furthermore, organs are also 'only' made of impulses, simply in a more compact form."
-----------------------------
Can you please explain what's the difference between 'self' & 'I/Ego'...
All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 380
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 06:09 am: |
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Hello
Can someone please explain the difference between 'self' & 'I/Ego'..from spiritual teachings perspective. On the net theres lots of different definitions and opinions on them.
Perhaps Jacob, Robyn, Cpl are busy..
All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 718
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 12:10 pm: |
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Billy answered this about the Ego:
If a person is suppressing his/her ego, the person becomes humble („demütig“ in German) or submissive and, in doing so, is harming himself.
The ego/I is the Self of the human being, and it represents that what he is.
The human being needs his self and, therefore, shall not destroy or suppress his ego or „I“.
What I can add is this: The Ego of a human being regards very often his/her body and his/her possessions and even family members like wives and husbands/children as an extension of the own identity.
However all material things and all humans are limited in their existence, and when it happens that their material possessions break down, family or friends disappear out of their lives because the relationship ends or by death then it immediately affects their Ego, their sense of self-worth and self-being.
Such a human will never have control over his/her life.
The best thing a person can do is to concentrate on that what is eternal and timeless, and that is the laws and recommendations of the Creation, Nature, the Geisteslehre.
Spiritual knowledge, truth and wisdom, these factors are not affected by space and time and will last forever. Also, spiritual knowledge, truth and wisdom can be obtained by anyone and are not the exclusive possession of just one or few people, depending if the consciousness-related and spiritual development is adequate to correctly understand and use this information.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Alagna
Member
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 07:27 am: |
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Please Mahigitam,
Obviously you have studied these terms and you have studied the spiritual teaching, what do you think the perspective is? Go for it! Lay it down the best you can; and by working through it you will learn something, then we can all discuss it here.
Cheers,
Anthony |
Joe
Member
Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 03:24 am: |
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Jacob, I'm not sure if I've understood your explanation of when a person is humble. I mean isn't Billy himself at least in a sense humble? |
Memo00
Member
Post Number: 503
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 08:34 am: |
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Joe
Billy is modest, he knows that he knows more about many important things than any other person in this planet (and beyond) but he behaves like any other normal person and doesn´t pretend to be superior or anything like that.
There is a huge difference between being humble and being modest. Being humble (thinking low of yourself, to have thoughts like: "i am not worthy of this or that, i am small, i am weak, etc") has a negative impact in yourself and your evolution. In change being modest is good, by being modest you avoid a lot of hate and jealousy from other persons, and you maintain your "feet on the ground" (you see things as they really are and not as you imagine them).
Salome |
Alagna
Member
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2011
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 07:28 pm: |
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Hello Jacob,
I think you are ‘painting’ too broad of stroke with you’re definition of the word “humble.” Plus the key is to have a balanced ego; and sometimes an over-confident person who is used to success, and becomes “cocky,” can benefit from being humbled or by practicing humility.
According to the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary
Definition of HUMBLE
1
: not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2
: reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission <a >
3
a : ranking low in a hierarchy or scale : insignificant, unpretentious b : not costly or luxurious <a >
— hum·ble·ness noun
— hum·bly adverb
Synonyms: demure, down-to-earth, lowly, meek, modest, unassuming, unpretentious
Best regards,
Anthony}} |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 720
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 04:16 am: |
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This part stems from BEAM himself, and are not my words:
Billy answered this about the Ego:
If a person is suppressing his/her ego, the person becomes humble („demütig“ in German) or submissive and, in doing so, is harming himself.
The ego/I is the Self of the human being, and it represents that what he is.
The human being needs his self and, therefore, shall not destroy or suppress his ego or „I“.
The other text is from me personally.
Besides its a fact that the Earth human is famous of using the wrong words and definitions.
Spirit, mind, psyche, soul, consciousness, Gemuet, etc, etc, etc have all been falsely defined and understood.
For example, in my native language, which is Dutch, there is a word "Geestesziek", which is translated one on one to "spiritillness" or illness of the spirit.
Since the spirit is part of the Creation itself, it is totally immune to any kind of illness, harm, etc.
In this view, this definition is totally wrong.
There are many more examples.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 383
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 07:29 am: |
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Thankyou Jacob & Anthony,
From what i understand, I/Ego & Self & Personality are all about the same "entity" but are describing various functions in different processes of that entity.
In http://www.theyfly.com/I_Always_Remain_Relaxed.htm
Its been said that, "The self is obviously a hypothetical construct." How shall we understand this ?
Does this mean that there is no "one/single" entity that is receiving all data from all senses and does the processing & hence "Self" is hypothetical ?
If that is so, then "The self is certainly not an organ, just as the "I"/Ego is not; instead, certain impulses/impulsations in a specific frequency range define the self and the "I"/Ego as well as the other consciousness-block-programs/-processes.."
1) "Self" is hypothetical and yet is defined by certain impulses ? How shall we understand this?
2)WHy is the self & I/Ego are written as 2 different concepts ?
The great Truths of Philosophy are not proved but seen - S.Radhakrishnan
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Alagna
Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 06:08 pm: |
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Hi Mahigitam,
I read the Figu article by Mariann Uehlinger, Thoughts about the Sentence: "I Always Remain Relaxed and Thereby Gain Might over Myself," the first time through and thought to myself, "wow this is going to take a few more reads." So I would definitely agree with her what she says at one point, "We cannot read this often enough in order to understand and grasp as far as we can what has been said." And that goes for her entire article too, not just Billy's explanations.
As far as the whole "hypothetical construct," paragraph -- thingy... In my opinion, Billy is sort of making fun of earth ‘doctors,’ Billy mentions FREUD, who think he had things pegged. So don’t really focus on this, because we learn from Uehilinger’s conclusion that the Self is "...not JUST a theoretical construct, but...“ much, much more that is so vast it "...extends into our very cells" and beyond.
So I think this brings us to your second questions, "why the 2 different concepts?" Uehlinger sums it up quite nicely with one sentence: "The self is something fully comprehensive." The Self is the spiritual side; or in other words, the Self is where spiritual evolution is taking place: the „...’human-being-energy-impulsation-power’...“ system of Creation. Unlike the Ego or personality that is just a small piece of the Self: „...the individuality-block (Ego/’I’, personality, character and memory)...“ portion of the material consciousness. So I think that the reason these two concepts are separated is to differentiate between the infinite aspect of the Self (Spiritual realm) and the much smaller part-piece, the Ego (Material realm).
Best regards,
Anthony |
Hector
Member
Post Number: 657
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 04:12 pm: |
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In my opinion the I and the ego are synonyms. In the end we are talking about IDENTITY. ¿Who are we? In my case, Hector, or in your case Mahesh. The ego, the I represents our identity as a human being that resides in a human body.
But there exists more factors, besides your personality, that add more "identitary characteristics" to a human being. The spirit, and the countless forms/types of consciousness should contribute to shape your identity as a whole, and not just limiting your IDENTITY to the I, ego or personality.
Let's quote Semjase from her "Introduction to the Spirit Teaching". Let's read her explanations regarding the concept "Identity":
107. For what is a human?
108. He is only a figure and a name.
109. If one takes away a human's name and figure, what will remain?
110. What remains is the fundamental essence, the existence--the spirit.
131. If the human looks at his fellowman in an external, material way only, he sees nothing other than just exactly the form and figure, the material of this special person.
175. But how shall the human identify himself with everything?
176. The human shall see himself for just what he really is.
177. Generally he identifies himself with his body.
178. He cares for it like it were a gem, he nurtures it and takes trouble for it until self-sacrifice.
179. He surrounds it with pride, junk and a stupid delusion, while he lets his spirit become stunted.
183. Often he extends his body identity towards his material possessions, or he gets upset if some fellowman involuntarily touches it.
184. Yet, what will a human do about it when he has recognized the spiritual truth?
185. He will identify himself with all things and all the world's life forms and the universes.
186. A human full of creative-spiritual wisdom, full of knowledge, truth, love and cognition, knows that from the truth everything originated, originates and will originate for all eternity.
187. Therefore, he identifies himself with each and everything.
188. In his spiritual consciousness, he will always be--in his innermost part--one with each and everything.
189. In his interior, in his spiritual consciousness, he will identify himself with everything in the universe, in the same manner that the other one, who thinks materialistically, identifies himself with his body, with his money, his possessions, his confused speaking and teaching, and with the sound of his voice.
190. But when the human identifies himself with everything in the universe, no hate and no greed may dwell within him anymore, because he makes no more selfish differences. |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1407
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 01:45 pm: |
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*
From the perspective of the Spirit Self, all things are one and the same from Creation. From this perspective, we do not own anything, as by the connection of Spirit there is a oneness with the Creation Spirit in all things.
It is the I/Ego which ignores this connectedness and assumes itself to be a separate entity. The I/Ego lives in the material and sees only that which appears before the senses. It says "I own this car, I own this land, I own that tree..."
It devolves to Logical thinking for the I/Ego to find the Truth in this duplicity, then to realize there is more than the material self or only the material Universe. Once logical thinking has lead the I/Ego to the Truth of the Spirit of the Self, it may be understood the connectedness in all things by the same Spirit through the Spirit of Creation. Then it may also be understood there is not any true ownership of any other thing (or person), rather these are all free in their own nature, meant to be shared in common without material claim, and the "things" are only borrowed for a time. This is where the I/Ego subsumes itself to the Spirit Self and grows towards Creation.
Salome
*
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 722
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 04:40 pm: |
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The Ego is a subset of the personality/material consciousness, which is regarded to be the higher self.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 511
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 06:28 am: |
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I and i are one.
When I drops off, i remains.
There needs be no i, i is.
As i is aware, love is.
And love allows
Love allows i to build upon it self, to be self aware, and build I thereby. I, which is ever in the process of testing its boundaries, of being assaulted and rebuilt, is never more than a shadow of the self, i. I is something, whereas i is.
I and i are one.
Fur leben.
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Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 384
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 10:02 am: |
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Thank you Anthony & Hector,
"You notice here again, this is but 'beating around the bush' without really explaining anything. The self is obviously a hypothetical construct. Translated into normal language, this means: the self is a constructive idea used to help describe things or characteristics, which are not concretely observable, but merely inferable from what is observed."
SO the above paragraph is a summary of Billy's description of 'Sigmund FREUD's description of the SELF'....& therefore the "Self" is definitely not a hypothetical construct.
------------------------------
1) "Destination of the human-consciousness-evolution is to harmonize the external and internal self with the human’s relatively highest possible level of the innermost, creative self (spirit-form)."
2) "The 'I' or Ego, which is imbedded in the personality and therefore also in the consciousness, means 'my-being-here' or 'my existence' or the 'I am'......The consciousness itself provides the 'I'/Ego with guidelines, whereby it is practically only an executor of the consciousness or a fulfiller of the consciousness. …"
So, it seems to be that the function of "I/Ego" is to give us the sense of "I am" or subjectivity.
On the otherside, the Real SELF is the Spirit-Form.
Is it the "I/Ego"(material side) or the "Real Self(spiritform)" that gives us subjectivity or the sense of "I am'ness" ?
The great Truths of Philosophy are not proved but seen - S.Radhakrishnan
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Alagna
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 08:20 pm: |
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Hello Jacob,
Something else to consider from Uehlinger’s article, where she quotes Billy, "Effectively, the consciousness centre (= central processor of the consciousness) is the actual basis and cause of the 'I’/Ego-consciousness or the central 'I’/Ego, that’s why it is also called the ‚higher-'I’/Ego’ or the 'higher-self’."
So I would assume Billy is talking about the exchange between [pulsation and impulsation (Impulskraft)] the Material Centralconsciousness and the Spiritual Centralconsciousness here? So looking at the Figu graph you put up earlier, it shows "The use [Ed: flow?] of the spiritual energy" line going from the Spiritual Centralconsciousness to the Material Centralconsciousness in one direction. So I think I was wrong earlier about what I said about the Self: "...the Self is where spiritual evolution is taking place: the "...’human-being-energy-impulsation-power’..." system of Creation." So it would seem that the higher-‘I’/Ego or higher-self (centralconsciousness) is this human-being-energy-impulsation-power [Ed:pulsation] source of Creation. Yet the Self represents (is a hypothetical construct of) the spiritual side of the human being. These are two different things, object vs. construct.
Best regards,
Anthony |
Marbar
Member
Post Number: 182
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2011 - 06:34 pm: |
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This may sound be a silly question, I'm going to ask anyway. What would be the career or occuaption of a person who has a highly evolved spirit-form on this planet? |
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