| Author |
Message |
   
Corey
Member
Post Number: 338
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 09:55 am: | 
|
Flaming_pie,
Keep in mind when discussing the subject with Edward that most Europeans as well as the rest of the world (Russia, China etc) view Americans as gun-toting "cowboys", where guns and violence permeate almost every facet of our culture. It doesn't help that our military expenditures outspend the rest of the world COMBINED either, every single year. A "cowboy" like George W Bush Jr didn't exactly help other nations views on American violent "facism". America has real problems, crushing debt, overstretched and overused military, mass shootings, corrupt leaders, too many secret services, divided Congress and polarization, gangs and drugs (including prescription drugs), the most crowded prisons and inmates out of any country in the world, many problems that other countries can see that, at times, threaten the Republic themself and combined could lead to a collapse of some sort, as has happened to other nations in earth history. If America wants to survive the future, it has to seriously address some of these problems. It especially has to face the warnings that due to the law of cause and effect, our warlike actions around the world could bring our own destruction in the future. This would be coupled with plenty of environmental catastrophe (as noted in the Henoch prophecies plenty will be right here in America)
I probably will get ridiculed for saying this but I'm all for a sort of gun control, at least an assault weapons ban and get rid of the ammunition (extended magazine and guns that can fire 30 rounds per second and bullets that blow people apart on the inside) like doctors who treat gunshot victims in hospitals in this country want to see. I'm on their side on this issue.
Billy may be armed, but remember in contrast it is illeagal to carry a concealed weapon in Switzerland, where as here in the US it is very easy to get a conceal and carry permit.
All in all my taste for some gun control really isn't about the guns themselves, it's how we take it to the "attack" level always here in the US. We can blame overpopulation and religion, and most Americans are against interfering with the Constitution because it is largely seen as "divine" inspiration, which once again boils down to religion and in my opinion is false. I think we can all agree that whatever happens, we don't want the government to be the only ones that are allowed guns for obvious reasons. For the record, I am also for following the Swiss model when it comes to our military, and for strict enforcement of birth permits and population control, and the immediate release of nationwide renewable energy (something like the "Pikens plan")/electric cars/electrified high-speed rail here in the US. I am also for restocking our fisheries, replanting our forests, and banning cropping techniques which can lead to desertification as a result of topsoil erosion. I am also for Smart Gun technology that requires a registered fingerprint of gun owner before handgun will activate, eliminating a lot of gang violence with stolen weapons. As you can see I'm an out of place "liberal" so we'll probably have to agree to disagree ok?
Salome
Corey
OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom.
|
Flaming_pie
Member
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2012
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 11:25 am: |
|
Corey,
I am not taking the traditional, "conservative" viewpoint here because I am a conservative. I am trying to be logical and fit my ideas into the teachings and what Billy is doing. I agree there are too many guns in this world. This is a huge problem. I agree with Edward, the NRA and gun manufacturers are largely interested in profits. Hence my overpopulation argument. I agree, we need gun law reform. I am by no means a gun enthusiast. I prefer martial arts. But I understand the need to be prepared for danger and to have some sort of self defensive capability. I work in a job where there is a high degree of probability of armed robbery. And we have a retired FBI/Homeland Security man who works with us and he is armed everyday. I also have access to firearms in the event of an emergency. My boss, in the years and years of being in his business has been in a firefight and guns had saved his live and the lives of his employees. If businesses like ours are disarmed, we become even more of a target for criminals. This is a much, much more complicated issue than simply taking a few guns off the shelves of stores and hoping the problem goes away.
But you are flat wrong when it comes to the 2nd Amendment being anything about religion. It is about SELF DEFENSE. But yes, often very religious people are gun enthusiasts. But it is wrong to think that the 2nd Amendment is anyway religious.
Best regards,
Anthony Alagna
|
Ferbon
Member
Post Number: 182
Registered: 05-2012
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Flaming_pie
this pop culture saying comes to mind..."guns don't kill people; people kill people" and "when you want to hit, you will find the stick".
Law enforcement to enforce the law... at schools...is a terrible idea. I suppose you imagine that such person could also frisk kids and carry a metal detector? Come on. Do you know of any procedure how to apprehend a kid with a gun or spot a "suspect"? Shouldn't such "job" also require special psychological training and written approval from each parent that his/her kid can be "detained"? How about a shooting in a school bus...how do you plan to prevent that? What about toy guns vs. officer with live ammunition at school?
I just don't see any of those positive aspects and "economy boosting" that you mentioned but rather quite uneducated and wishful thinking.
Deadly weapon can be made out of almost anything - and so banning guns by itself can not start or stop a civil war or any war or make you feel safer.I am not saying that law enforcement won't be approved at schools! U.S is almost a "police state" already not to mention a "democracy system" residing in Virginia.
Salome |
Melissa
Member
Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2012
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 12:34 pm: |
|
I don't know why I envision comics so much, while trying to understanding concepts, although drawings do seem to be a sort-of universal language.
I drew up an idea real quick, correlating to Flaming_pie's post #47. It is a sketch, and barbaric at that.
If overpopulation such as it is today, existed back in the days of the caveman...
what would it be like?
-Melissa
|
Rintintin
Member
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2012
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 01:46 pm: |
|
Hi...
The government will "protect" us from our weapons but who will protect us from our hacked government?
These people in the video below were unable to defend themselves because they have no weapons.
VIDEO:
ARMENIAN HOLOCAUST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGuznYgXDeI
Salome |
Flaming_pie
Member
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2012
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 01:48 pm: |
|
Dear Melissa,
That is great! I am glad there was not overpopulation back in the caveman days. As we can see from your drawing, all the wooly mammoths got hunted out and they became extinct before their time.
Cheers,
Anthony Alagna
|
Corey
Member
Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 04:28 pm: |
|
Anthony,
I actually never brought up the second amendment in my posting. My point was that people's protectiveness of the Constitution is usually for religious reasons if changes might be needed to it to keep up with our evolutionary times which might help the problem(s) now or in the future but I understand what you are saying. Cheers!
Salome
Corey
OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom.
|
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 628
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 06:05 pm: |
|
> Good thinking from the Pie that Flames. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 2633
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 02:44 am: |
|
Hi Anthony....
You are missing the point.
It is NOT all about OVERPOPULATION and RELIGION!
It is about The Misuse of Automatic weapons, which have no place in society.
You DO NOT need, Automatic guns per se.....to defend yourself or family.
The Ignorant, are just being mislead, here, by the NRA; just, like they want
it.
Billy's gun possession, is NOT of an Army Arsenal, and as far as I know,
Billy does not own such an destructive weapon; Switzerland, has limitations
in what sort of weapons One may posses in One's home.
Anthony, I am not saying we should ban all weapons, but just 'limit' the
purchase to those whom are not fit for such very destructive guns. There
should be better Background Checks, before purchase.
I know, that there are people out there whom are soooo fixed on the WW3
scenario, that they want...to 'silence' everything that has to do with
downgrading weapon sales, etc. Well, they have to SEE....the reality of it
all, also. The WW3 scenario...is a Prophecy(Alterable)....and DOES NOT have
to occur. I CAN understand their point of view, but...let us not calculate so
somberly. THINK...LOVE! As Billy said many times: conduct juridical law
suites...and REMOVE your Warmongering Politicians. That is the ONLY way for
PEACE and Harmony for ALL. Fighting, is NOT the solution.
Again, to me: it has nothing to do with Overpopulation. If, the Weapon
Clearance for an individual were more strict, you do not have to feed all
those people with guns. The CORE problem is THE GUNS....NOT the
Overpopulation. The Weapon Industry, is just a MONEY and DEATH Making
Machine; do you think....they really care? Of course...not. They only see
$$$$...signs, nothing else. Ptaah, is even aware of this.
Of course, you have a right to bare arms, BUT....NOT all sorts of arms, is my
view.
You have arms to protect you(small arms), and you have what they call arms of
MASS Destruction, which are those Automatic Rifles, and what not. THEY, just
DO NOT have a place in a family home.
Sometimes, I think America is very Paranoid about WW3.
If One does not agree with One's government...or the laws: 'take steps', as
Billy would say. Take them to court. Do not...start a WAR...about it!
That is WHY....the Spirit(ual) Teaching(s)' Main Goal, is America and its
people.
Still, thank you...for your insight, Anthony...buddy...
Edward. |
Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 222
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 05:47 am: |
|
Irony of ironies, I missed the open period of Herr Meier's monthly Q/A section, just yesterday, and nobody else popped the question either. So, I s'pose it will have to wait another month or so, and hopefully we catch that one.
That will teach you to stray from the truth for more than 24 hours.. The last few times have varied from the normal last weekend of the month..
Salome
Scott
(Message edited by scott on December 25, 2012)
Life
|
Melissa
Member
Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2012
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 06:15 am: |
|
Someone mentioned to me after seeing the drawing, that ...
"If they banned all the sticks, then there would be no more trees, and then there would be no more good oxygen, and we would not be able to survive."
... good thinking, was my reaction.
-Melissa
|
Flaming_pie
Member
Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 06:25 am: |
|
Hello Edward,
"Billy's gun possession, is NOT of an Army Arsenal, and as far as I know,
Billy does not own such an destructive weapon; Switzerland, has limitations
in what sort of weapons One may posses in One's home."
My friend, did you even look at 1:19 in "The Silent Revolution of Truth Movie?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZO6CAXxsI Billy's got "2 sub machine guns" and both he and his son's semi-automatic pistols, among others in his gun safe. All of those weapons would be considered "army weapons."
Best regards,
Anthony Alagna
|
Abdiel
Member
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 08:36 am: |
|
The zionist controlled government of EE.UU will invade 36 african countries.
The true plan hehind all this is to move the patriot soldiers to those countries so that the UNO troops that are repared here in ee.uu not confront recistence.
This plan in well explained in the protocols of zion...
The master plan is to replace national armies by foreing armies to kill the people.
Here in ee.uu are russian and chinese troops training.
They know that with the domestic army they can't do any of their malevolent plans. So they maintain busy the usa army far away in other countries so that they could kill the american people.
The same will happen in europe. |
Rintintin
Member
Post Number: 43
Registered: 04-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 03:19 pm: |
|
Edwar...
Do not fall into the deadly trap of disarmament.
When you give your assault weapons to our controlled and hacked government they will come later with their assault weapons to take away your handguns.
What do you think will happen next?
Ethnic cleansing as occurred in Armenia in 1915-1918!!!
There are plans to make a great extermination of the American people in an ethnic cleansing, especially whites!!!
The same globalists anti-arians that caused the Armenian holocaust have controlled the U.S. goverment. The U.S. government no longer responds to the American people, that's the main reason why they want to disarm us.
They are planning a fictitious large-scale conflict in the Middle East and 39 African countries to send the Patriots to foreign lands, so that foreign troops under the UN's flag can annihilate the American people more easily, without resistance from the US military wing.
VIDEO:
FEMA Camp and Coffins Investigation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zSDdm-SHI
I especially found face to face Russian troops training in Everglades National Park. There are many of them now in Nort Caroline.
It's happening now a great invasion of foreign troops at the backs of the American people.
If US peoples give their assault weapons, their will be dead. |
Stephen_moore
Member
Post Number: 346
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 05:24 pm: |
|
Abdiel
Do you honestly believe or trust what you write here?
You provide no evidence.
Are you trying to waste more our time, in a world that time wasting is something a lot of human beings continually do anyway.
www.ufofacts.me.uk - www.thecircleforhumanity.net
|
Ferbon
Member
Post Number: 185
Registered: 05-2012
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 05:59 am: |
|
Stephen_moore
from OM 1480. No answer is a clear answer.
and you are right...
1183. Bad books are the greatest thief.
Salome |
Votan
Member
Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 02:21 pm: |
|
Guns like anything else is a part of human thought and action.Self defence is OK. I have owned a rifle .I was trained in the army about the proper use.Yes they are trying to disarm the people when the civil unrest will come and people will be arrested.
Does anybody know where the concentration camps are that the government has built.
joe
|
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 662
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 09:06 pm: |
|
A large percent of Americans consider their guns an important part of life. That's their own choice. Here in India with crappy law and order enforcement situation and fourth class inefficient cops and judicial system, we have much much lesser gun penetration and much much lesser gun crimes and we are happy about it. We consider our gun culture to be one of the reason why a bullied boy or a half insane psychotic individual cannot get the chance of finding a gun in the closet and then vent frustration by killing 30 people.
India has the second highest number of guns in private ownership behind US, but the strict regulation ensure that only very responsible and trained person gets a gun (hence low per capita gun), i.e. whose occupation demands or whose personal safety is of concern. Of the guns in circulation in India, about 85% are unregistered, but these are either very crude weapons (non-automatic and a large majority are 1 shot) or cheap Chinese variants those jam in heat and cold.
An argument I hear is that if not guns then knives, bombs. Oh really? Would that boy in Connecticut able to kill 20 students and 6 teachers with a knives? And is it really easy to build bombs in the US?
BEAM owns multiple firearms, but he has done the job of a security guard and have had 21 assassination attempts on him.
Regarding Switzerland being a land of peace and no gun violence, this is a myth and moreover, Switzerland has much tougher law than the USA which the NRA propagandist would not let their user base believe.
Some months ago I read a bogus propaganda by somebody in Facebook in which gun ownership was tied to genocide. I spotted flaws in each and every case. I wish I had that saved, would have posted now.
If personal protection is of concern of so many American, why not use baton rounds, which will break bones or incapacitate but would rarely kill? And there is no evidence to support that all the Americans who have guns are "hunters". Neither there are any evidence to support that American Government is trying to disarm its citizens to exterminate them or put them in concentration camps. Why?
I think owning guns and the power to kill people with a press of trigger is just another addiction for many of the gun owners. An overwhelming majority of American gun owners may be responsible, but there should be some sacrifice made in order to stop gun violence in America.
I am for personal protection and all, but if American Government is courageous, it should plug registration loopholes and replace lethal weapons with baton rounds except in cases where there is a real threat to personal security (supported by a reason) and in other genuine cases supported by periodic psychometric test, drug usage test and proper training. This is my personal opinion as an outsider. There could be other ways to stop irresponsible people from owning guns, but this is what I think of American gun ownership, irrespective of what BEAM may think.
Everything comes to us that belongs to us if we create the capacity to receive it - Rabindranath Tagore
|
Hunter
Member
Post Number: 378
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 09:10 am: |
|
Edward,
You are wrong. Automatic weapons are already illegal in the U.S. We are talking about semi-automatic weapons, which do have a place in society as a means of self-defense. The Swiss also have these weapons and have very low gun crime. So it's not about the guns.
Rintintin and Votan,
Right on - keep speaking the truth. This is about the DISARMAMENT of the American people at the hands of a criminal elite using the government as its pawn.
Smukhuti,
I bet this woman and her boyfriend in India wish they could have been carrying a gun with them:
http://news.msn.com/world/six-charged-with-murder-in-india-gang-rape-after-woman-dies
So it seems you are not immune to horrific crimes because of your allegedly superior gun laws.
Regardless, the Swiss example refutes your claim. Switzerland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the U.S. and yet its violent crime rate is less than England's and other countries with a complete gun ban.
The lying frauds who put together the United Nations gun safety study conveniently left Switzerland out of their study. Why? BECAUSE IT DISPROVED THEIR BOGUS ARGUMENT.
More on Swiss gun laws here:
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime-swiss.html
As for religion, that's nonsense. Owning a gun is perfectly logical because everyone has the right to protect themselves from violent aggression.
Let's address the real problem. Let's look at the psychotropic drug problem, the mental health problem, the gun free zone problem and the violent culture problem. All of these shooters were on some type of psychotropic drug and we have quite a bit of evidence showing higher suicide rates and higher mental instability among people who use these drugs long term.
So let's look at the real root causes. Because attempting to ban guns will not solve any of these things and will only lead to greater problems.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident" ~ Schopenhauer
|
Rintintin
Member
Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2012
| | Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 07:00 pm: |
|
Smukhuti wrote: "Neither there are any evidence to support that American Government is trying to disarm its citizens to exterminate them or put them in concentration camps. Why?"
My answer:
There are things you will not find in the mainstream press.
These videos can explain you everything that is happening step by step. If you do not see these videos one by one you can not have a global view of what is happening.
VIDEO-1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niaw_aD7H_o
VIDEO-2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR6wm-f6beU
VIDEO-3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwR0jT5R0P8
VIDEO-4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp-vZsWVg9U
Check out the history...
The same history of ARMENIA and RUSSIA could be repeated in USA!!! |
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 663
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 08:20 am: |
|
Hunter, there are four ways to stop or minimize gun violence:
First: Raise the consciousness level of the gun owners to a minimal level so that you are sure that irresponsible use would never occur. Such times are far in the future, and with violent video games and drug usage and high percentage of undeclared insane people in the society, this option is maybe too idealistic. I suppose the Plejaren society had reached this state thousands of years ago.
Second: Arm everyone (I mean each and everybody and at all times) so that the criminals know that in case of an armed assault there would be a shoot-out. The first problem in this case is: there could be casualties on both side including innocent bystanders. Second problem: the threshold dilemma - where the threshold of picking up the gun and shooting would be either too low (destructive) or too high (ineffective). Third problem: Insane people would still take out 5 guys before being killed. Fourth problem: Authority of law enforcement agencies would be challenged in so many encounters, that grip of State would loosen. Fifth problem: Arms race between neighbours, between neighbourhoods, between races, between religions. Sixth problem valid for America: High gun violence in otherwise peaceful neighbourhood in times of social unrest, for e.g. the prophesied civil war.
Third: Have barbaric and inhumane laws that was effective in Afghanistan under Taliban and to some extent/partially effective in some Arab nations which are so gruesome that even with small conviction rate of 10-15%, the criminals would still be desisted from committing crimes.
Fourth: Make the law enforcement effective enough to serve as deterrent, reduce disparity of income to minimal, increase social security to a level so that even marginalized people at least maintain a minimal standard of living.
Fifth: Have effective gun laws in place (inclusive of training and periodic psychological assessment), plug registration loopholes, encourage non-lethal arms (except in case where lethal weapon are real requirement), reduce drug abuse, discourage violent video games; and over and above, have an effective law enforcement and judiciary.
Option 4 and 5 would never bring down gun violence to zero, but they would bring gun violence to the minimal possible value limited by societal mindset.
It seems you are vouching for the second option which is obviously not one of the superior choice.
Since you brought up this link: http://news.msn.com/world/six-charged-with-murder-in-india-gang-rape-after-woman-dies
The brutality of the crime has really shocked people here, but rest assured this will be forgotten and life will go on as usual.
Now, there is violence against woman in India every day. About 90% of rapes in India are unreported, but also about 54% in the USA. The number of rapes per million is 277 in the USA and 18 in India (as of 2010). Adjusted to the unreported rape incidents, this comes to 602 in the USA and 180 in India - this, in-spite of US gun ownership per million towering Indian gun ownership and US policing system and judiciary being comparatively more effective than India's and much lesser poverty and imbalance in USA than in India's. It is really true when the Plejaren said that the so called developed nations are only developed materially, but in all other counts match the so called third world countries - this truth is exposed when you give guns to the people who are not mature enough to deal with the power.
India's problem is not absence of gun, her problem is overpopulation, material imbalance, gender imbalance (a large section of the society being extremely patriarchal, the males are finding it hard to accept women being more independent and successful while they are a failure), ineffective policing system, ineffective judiciary, and increasing unmanageable populace (as a result of overpopulation).
BTW, Switzerland has LESS gun ownership rate than USA (about half) and much stricter gun laws than US and it is not a land of peace as the propagandist suggest. I would soon post the counter for the cases you and Rintintin posted (Switzerland, Armenia, Russia and all). Give me some time to search for the research material I collected some months ago but do not find it now.
Rintintin, I watched the first video, but did not bother to watch the rest. The protocols of Zion were discussed before, and if those video are to be believed, everything written in http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_028#The_.22Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion.22 should be false. Are you trying to proof that this bulletin article is false?
Everything comes to us that belongs to us if we create the capacity to receive it - Rabindranath Tagore
|
Votan
Member
Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 04:09 pm: |
|
Hi Edward
Billy was right we have the power to change prophecies. Unfortunately we cannot as we have not learnt our lesson yet. As I said before 2013 will bring forth a lot of unrest and those in power do not like the change. World WAR 3 will happen and then we might learn a lesson.
I would like to be proved wrong for the sake of the loss of so many lives. I am stating a fact.
joe
|
Rintintin
Member
Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2012
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 07:05 pm: |
|
Hi...
I don't know which one is right...
There is a possibility that the Russian intelligence services have made the "fake" protocols based on the true intentions of the Jews, as a warning to the Russian people.
The strange thing is that being "false", the protocols are being fulfilled exactly. |
|
