| Author | Message | ||
    Celesco Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2013 |
I have another question for a person who is skilled in German. My questions is regarding the organization of verbs, adverbs, nouns, and other parts of speech in order to form grammatically-correct sentences. Here is the example: Markus: Ich spiele jetzt Fußball. As I know it, this is accurately translated to mean: Markus: I am playing soccer now. However, I notice that, when organized in German, the words are not set up in the same exact order as the translation. So - because the meaning is the same (in English) - it seems feasible that the German sentence, based on personal preference, can also be translated to say: "I am now playing soccer." As you can see, in the second translation, I have placed the adverb (now) before the verb (playing) instead of after the noun (soccer), albeit the implied meaning is the same; meanwhile, an exact, word-for-word translation of the German text implies a grammatical order which sounds clumsy in English: "I (Ich) play (spiele) now (jetzt) soccer (Fußball)." - "I play now soccer." It sounds nonsensical when translated exactly. Can anybody point me to a body of text that might shed some light on the correct order of the different parts of speech - or is it something that must be pieced together over time? Furthermore, are there exceptions to the rule, wherein a sentence's grammatical structure may be reorganized with no loss in clarity? By this, I mean to draw attention to the fact that, in English, it can be said "I am playing soccer now." as well as "I am now playing soccer." with no alteration in meaning. Does German allow for such pointless (for lack of a better term) reorganizing - or is the grammatical structure of a German sentence so precise that to alter it will cause the accurate meaning to be lost? Simply put, is the sentence "Ich jetzt spiele Fußball." wherein the verb (spiele) and the adverb (now) are swapped still valid? | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2013 |
I have another question for a person who is skilled in German - however, in truth it is more accurately a confusion, which I would like clarification regarding if possible. My confusion is regarding the organization of verbs, adverbs, nouns, and other parts of speech in order to form grammatically-correct sentences. Here is the example: Markus: Ich spiele jetzt Fußball. As I know it, this is accurately translated to mean: Markus: I am playing soccer now. However, I notice that, when organized in German, the words are not set up in the same exact order as the translation. So - because the meaning is the same (in English) - it seems feasible that the German sentence, based on personal preference, can also be translated to say: "I am now playing soccer." As you can see, in the second translation, I have placed the adverb (now) before the verb (playing) instead of after the noun (soccer), albeit the implied meaning is the same; meanwhile, an exact, word-for-word translation of the German text implies a grammatical order which sounds clumsy in English: "I (Ich) play (spiele) now (jetzt) soccer (Fußball)." - "I play now soccer." It sounds nonsensical when translated exactly. Can anybody point me to a body of text that might shed some light on the correct order of the different parts of speech - or is it something that must be pieced together over time? Furthermore, are there exceptions to the rule, wherein a sentence's grammatical structure may be reorganized with no loss in clarity, as it can be done in English? By this, I mean to draw attention to the fact that, in English, it can be said "I am playing soccer now." as well as "I am now playing soccer." with no alteration in meaning. So - does German allow for such pointless (for lack of a better term) reorganizing - or is the grammatical structure of a German sentence so precise that to alter it will cause the accurate meaning to be lost? Simply put, is the sentence, "Ich jetzt spiele Fußball," wherein the verb (spiele) and the adverb (now) are swapped, still valid? | ||
Christian Moderator Post Number: 230 Registered: 02-2000 |
Instead of "Ich spiele jetzt Fussball" it could also be written or said "Jetzt spiele ich Fussball". Both sentences have the same meaning, but which version to chose depends on what has been said or written immediately before, or what will be said or written directly after it. Regards, Christian | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2013 |
Thank you for the clarification, Christian. Since I wrote to the forum, I have begun to listen to the 'Michel Thomas' series of German lessons, and I feel I can say freely that his method of teaching is very progressive and intuitive. I cannot say that it is a perfect learning tool, but he has compiled a lesson which not only teaches nouns, verbs, and other such parts of speech - but which also teaches about the way that the German language is structured, about the way it has progressed through the ages into the predominantly Anglo-Saxon syntax of the English language, as well as a variety of "rules" for composing German sentences which I have not found as intuitively detailed elsewhere. These three elements in particular, from my estimation, form a very good foundation to understand the language as if it is a native language - however in the future I will know comprehensively whether this has been the case or not for me. For the time being, however, I wish to speak on its innovative nature, perhaps to lend another voice in praise toward it, which may in turn play a part in imparting enough curiosity onto others to check the series out for themselves. Of particular note is the fact that the lessons are spoken in real-time and in a manner which is resembles a conversation rather than a cold, unfeeling set of tapes. Michel likewise speaks in a clear, evocative, and approachable manner, which is almost humourously juxtaposed against the English-speaking students - who, in my perspective, sound rather robotic and lacking personality. However, to a large extent, I feel that the same can be said of most of the English-speaking world due to the syntax, structure, and primitiveness of the language. Salome, Tyler | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 703 Registered: 07-2009 |
> I'm a big fan of his teaching method. I will say no more about my German skills except that I usually listen to the lessons before going to the Center, so that I can muddle through at a higher level than otherwise. | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 759 Registered: 05-2008 |
An article regarding the spread of English into the German language, among others. I think I've read that Billy & the Plejaren are totally against this. http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/08/english-words-german?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/somethingborrowedsomethingnew "WALK through an international city and you will see quite a lot of English. Walk through an expat-dense neighbourhood in Berlin, like the one Johnson has recently moved to, and you’ll see more than the average, such as “Fastfood”, “Women’s wear”, “Coffee to go” on three storefronts spotted the other day. Using English in a city where many visitors and even residents don’t speak German makes sense." "Besides English-as-English, though, German itself has also taken on quite a lot of English words. The on-line, user-written Wiktionary lists some 900 of them (surely under-counting). The definitions begin with abgefuckt (“in a sorry state”) and end in der Zoom (the feature on camera lenses). The liberal salting of English words into German sentences is called “Denglisch” (Deutsch and Englisch), and it tends to annoy traditionalists. There are several different kinds of Denglisch. One is the English word that has become fully standard in German: das Baby is the normal way to refer to a new human, edging out the older Säugling (charmingly cognate to the English “suckling”). Baby is now also a term of endearment in German, just as in English." Salome, Bruce | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 477 Registered: 12-2009 |
Yeah Bruce, there was a bulletin awhile back that had an article on "Denglisch" and to say Billy and the Plejaren are against this is very accurate. If the US dissolves in 2020 like Ptaah's probability calculations show, this will probably affect the English language's spread around the world. Even in China, English is taught as a second language to youth in schools. English will probably lose it's popularity in the course of time. Some of the after-effects of it's popularity, such as changing other languages, may be residual or may be temporary. The US will probably also lose it's military might around the globe, with China picking up the slack (?) What is left of the US military may be busy with the two foretold US civil wars anyways. I guess the future will show what happens, and what doesn't happen. My point is life will change drastically after 2020 for the citizens of the US, and this may ripple out to the rest of the world, like English losing it's popularity, less US world domination efforts, which may affect other countries in both positive and negative ways, etc. Some countries may actually want to intervene in future violence or civil war in the US, or abroad, further warlike actions may be instigated by new players. Really just use your imagination with this one (US dissolving in the year 2020). Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2013 |
The present form of English is a dialectical nightmare that brings inescapable stupidity and ignorance. I look forward to the day when it is no longer the predominant language. | ||
Earthling Member Post Number: 760 Registered: 05-2008 |
Corey, I don't think the US dissolving in or by the year 2020 is yet a foregone conclusion. Unless more information has been revealed, the contact report from last September only says this is a possibility. http://au.figu.org/special_bulletin_71.html Billy: ..... When I consider that which you already confided to me during my Great Trip in 1975, that, according to your probability calculations, the superpower USA could come to an end after 2020, if nothing in this country changes for the better by then, and if those who are the USA’s allies continue to dissociate from that country, or even become open enemies of that country, then could Obama perhaps be the crucial point so that this can indeed still be prevented? Ptaah: That could be so, but also to consider is that which the Obama successors will do next and which internal and external policies they pursue, because this will also determine that which will happen after 2020. Salome, Bruce | ||
Magic_pie Member Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2013 |
Hey Celesco, Don't be so hard on us English. I look forward to the day when people can see things for what they are and put things in perspective with discernment. English may be full of flaws; but it can be good for humor. One can't stop laughing at the word "elbow," for example. And lots of good rhymes can be busted too. Cheers, Anthony | ||
Darren Member Post Number: 347 Registered: 07-2009 |
I think English is the best sounding language for music/songs. (But definitely not the best for a speaking language!) I heard music/songs from many other languages such as Italian, German, Latin and many others but imo none of them sound as good as English for singing. I think it's perhaps because the English language is a high noting language. | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 709 Registered: 07-2009 |
> You may possibly change your mind if you listen to Andrea Bocelli sing…among others. Italian is a far, far more beautiful language for songs. | ||
Darren Member Post Number: 348 Registered: 07-2009 |
Hi Michael, I have listened to Andrea and Pavarotti. They are opera singers. Imo Italian is the best language for opera singing. As for normal music such as pop and the like, I think the English language sounds best. That's what I was mainly referring too. btw, I think Pavarotti is the best opera singer of all time. Others do too. | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 60 Registered: 08-2012 |
I agree with you Michael Horn, Italian is the sweetest language to sing in. But there are some fabulous operas in German too that sound as good. I love Andrea Bocelli. Thank you for sharing. Salome with Love ~ Piyali | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 335 Registered: 09-2011 |
Not that I understand it, but I love the sound of the Laplanders tongue. I've heard it described as a water flowing across pebbles in a musical stream. Maddji - Dawn Light http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTVc0aX1lc8 Life | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 37 Registered: 01-2013 |
Hello everyone, I would like to write a letter to Billy but my German skill is still very poor. I have written my letter in English and am going about the process of translating it using my limited knowledge of German grammar, as well as by using Google Translate - but I wonder if somebody from the forum might be willing to look over my work once it is completed, in order to tell me if the message is clear in translation? | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 59 Registered: 01-2013 |
It occurred to me today while studying with Michel Thomas again that, oftentimes, while speaking German, the syllables will seem to resonate deeper in my mouth, as opposed to being formed on the tip of my tongue. For example, in the English form of the verb "to drink", the lowercase 'r' sound is formed easily by moving the lips and provides no resonance in the mouth. However, to pronounce this same verb, "trinken", in German requires a harder 'r' sound which is difficult to adjust to because it requires some utilization of the tongue muscle - yet it provides a richer sound to my ear, and also seems to resonate more deeply in my own skull. It also seems to require utilization of the lower vocal chords, which frankly carries a much more mature and responsible-natured sound, leaving far less opportunity to develop a high-pitched, whining voice which is very common among English speakers, and especially so among perpetually childish persons who are able to use such a whining pitch in order to extract sympathy and compassion out of others. I wonder if there is some correlation between this vocal resonance and the material consciousness, which I understand is located in the brain - therefore it is perhaps affected subtly by the physical vibration of language, as well as by the thought-content of the words themselves? This observation also drew my attention to the fact that English, to me, is somewhat of a detached and "spacey" language - and by that I mean it is primarily vocalized outside of the body, as opposed to being emitted from within the body, which may attribute partially to its designation as a "baby language", as well as contributing to the ease with which speech impediments ("baby talk", gross slurs, incomprehensible dialects, stammering, absence of syllables, immature high pitch, etc.) may be formed. To my knowledge, the German language allows none of these things - particularly the absence of syllables since every letter must be vocalized clearly at all times. Whether this has any impact on the material consciousness I have yet to determine, yet I sense that it does play a significant role in maintaining the consistent clarity of language, something which can scarcely be found in English-speaking countries today, and the absence of which contributes to a great deal of miscommunication even among two native English speakers. | ||
Celesco Member Post Number: 60 Registered: 01-2013 |
I forgot to mention it but the whole notion of vibrations affecting the material consciousness was an idea that occurred to me separately from the FIGU material, so really I do not reckon that it warrants much exploration. I do not even have the foggiest idea how I would go about confirming such an idea, so perhaps it is best left out of the discussion. | ||
Celesco New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2013 |
Ignore the notions of vibrations and such from me that I expanded on above because they were thought of during a time when my thoughts were wont to spin around in pointless circles, making the ideas expanded in my previous posts in this thread as useless as a ball of yarn rolling around on the floor, and about as long as an entire ball of yarn, too, if I do say so myself :P Instead, I've drafted up a short explanation that might help to bring further clarification to the importance of learning German to some. I hope that it is able to reach somebody, though I would prefer to polish it some more first, as well as consider more in depth whether my explanation might even be of genuine use to anybody since there is already an explanation available on the Future of Mankind web site. However, I did not see any examples of compound German words used by the person who translated that information, and I find that examples work wonderfully with my particular learning style to illustrate the principles behind that article, so for the time being I am proceeding on the notion that the Future of Mankind wiki, while being entirely accurate, sadly does not - and cannot - cater to every kind of learning style that there is. | ||
Stefan_z2 Member Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2014 |
Fellows, This new research article is dedicated to those still waiting for yet another reason to take up the studies :-) http://gumc.georgetown.edu/news/Bilinguals-of-Two-Spoken-Languages-Have-More-Gray-Matter-Than-Monolinguals The practice of learning languages will not disappear in the future, even after high-tech devices that are capable of interpreting things on the fly. That is the message we get from the Plejarens. In “Aus den Tiefen des Weltenraums…” we learn that every kid is growing up with at least 3 languages, the one of the own nation/society, the common one of the home planet(s) (Sarat for the Plejarens), and the federation wide one (Samtee). Salome, Stefan | ||
Kiriona New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2015 |
Hi Stefan, I am a convert to the possibility of anyone being multilingual. I know that it's possible because of the fine examples already existing and because although I never thought it "easy" I learnt my own native language to some degree . Do you or can someone please advise (without me having to ask BEAM) what dialect we should learn and if there is an online option? Maungaarongo (Peace) Kiriona | ||
Stefan_z2 Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2014 |
Hi Kiriona, On the “what” of your question, you want to study the regular so called “Hochdeutsch” version, the way it is common in Germany. Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg … have some extra and specific vocabs, but grammar etc. are all as good as identical. German dictionaries usually list the specialty vocabs as well. Billy’s books are consistently in pure Hochdeutsch (exceptions are some with partially ancient communications that contain a bunch of valuable but forgotten and nowadays uncommon words). Only when reading the contact reports you will sometimes, but very seldom, see a term, could be colloquial, which is only common in Switzerland. He has stated that his mother tongue is, what our linguists currently call the Swiss dialect, “Schwyzerdütch”, in reality a language on its very own, no dialect. He does not use that one for any of his mission related documentations. On the “how”, I recall a recent posting from Corey, describing his experience. If you have the chance, logistically, you really want to take classes via a German embassy’s “Goethe Institute”. As to currently best books and courseware, someone else with recent experience should please comment. Frieden (peace) Stefan | ||
Kiriona New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2015 |
Hi Stefan_z2, Thanks very much. Most helpful. Maungaarongo Kiriona |
