| Author |
Message |
   
Lars
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 09:50 pm: | 
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Hi E.Vissier
I agree to a degree with you, alot of what the alledged Venusians have said is some similar to what the Plejaren's have said respecting reincarnation and natural law.
The divergence though appears in what Ptaah and Semjase said how that the Gizeh alien group has bases
on Venus and on Ganymeade, moon of Jupiter. this then reveals that these intelligences may not be native to those planets, But only say that they are and conscious of earth religions,Christianity etc.they utilize these, play on these with their contactee.
Contrary to your statement Adamski's Venusians did
claim and liken themselves to the angels of the Bible, and said that by their coming they might even now be actually fulfilling the prophecies of the angels returning to earth in the second advent. these statements can be seen in, Adamski's book "Inside the Spaceships"
Salome, Lars |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
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Hi Lars.While I haven't read Adamski's book "Inside The Spaceships",I have read extensive reports concering the Adamski case.I don't recall any mentioning of the ET's pretending to be angels of the second coming whatsoever.
Could it perhaps be they were talking figuratively or was it written down as in Adamski's own interpertation?
Regards,TerraX. |
Lars
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 08:07 pm: |
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Hello E.Vissier
Here is that quote with verbage comparing their(Venusians)coming with that of the Second advent of the Son of God, from Adamski's "Inside the spaceships" page.180
Orthon- "All this has been foretold by men of old.
They said in your written prophecies that the whole world would be disturbed, and that the signs will be these: Sons of God will be coming from heaven to Earth to deliver the peoples. The conditions in your world today have
placed you, as you put it, under the shadow of death. Your entire world is disturbed. And since we too are sons and daughters of God, could it not
be that even now the ancient prophecy is being fulfilled?
It is in this role that we come to you and say,
"Let the Supreme Being of the Universe be the guiding word for your world that your trobules may vanish as darkness before light."
so they are inferring they are like the angels the sons of God and that it is in this ROLE that they come.
This is exactly what Ptaah said that flying disks
of earthly origin with earth pilots contact some earth people as witnesses and announce to them that they are extraterrestrials from other planets."
Lars |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
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Very interesting.Thanks Lars. |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
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Hi Lars.The longer I ponder about the words spoken by Orthon the more variations of meaning I can come up with.In one of my first posts I admitted that the Adamski case became more 'shrouded' as time went by.This is still the case.I also stated that Adamski wasn't a humble man.Perhaps what the Plejarans are trying to say that it had a base of truth but was dimmed by untruth.
Regards,TerraX. |
Michael
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 06:18 pm: |
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Hi E.V.,
I think what the Plejarans are saying boils down to one word: FRAUD.
Michael |
Lars
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 09:47 pm: |
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Ho Michael and E.V.
Another thing that strikes me about FRAUD in the Adamski case is in one of his pictures, which can be seen in the book, "Inside the spaceships"
the picture concerns one that Adamski claims is a
picture of the side of a Venusian cigar shaped mothership with portholes in it, and Adamski's and a Venusian man's head each seen in a porthole, but what is outrageous about this picture is that the portholes are uneven in size, and look irregular, like they were cut out unevenly out of paper; but the worst of this particular picture is the white milky light alledgedly on the side of the craft, if one inspects it closely it looks like the picture of a Galaxy!
I can even make out the swirls of the galaxy in this photo. I think Adamski faked this photo by
super imposition onto a real picture of a galaxy.
So what the Plejarens have said that Adamski was faker appears very true.
Lars |
Michael
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 10:12 pm: |
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Hi Lars,
Yes, and as I recall, the heads in the portholes are too big and out of scale for them to be in a ship of the size it was purported to be.
Michael |
Lars
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:40 am: |
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Hi michael
It is nothing but pure FRAUD!
It is nothing but a picture of a real galaxy with holes punched through it, and the holes are uneven in the extreme! It is laughable, HA HA HA HA!
I think Mr Adamski's credibility just went down the drain Ha!
Lars |
Marc Juliano
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:24 am: |
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Hi Lars, hi all,
Here are some additional comments on Adamski by Semjase (29th Contact Report, July, 1975), particularly about some items you're all talking about here.
Rough translation:
Semjase:
"In particular, I would like to speak once again about George Adamski, since he has, next to Karl Michalek, put forth the most outrageous claims, and, by fabricating excessively numerous trick photos, etc., he became ever more brazen and careless over the years.
"As he witnessed and realized that he was very well-received within certain circles and that his photos, etc., had not undergone any close examination and, hence, were also able to trick real experts, he dared to make even greater assertions—-namely, that he flew inside extraterrestrial spaceships and had been photographed by extraterrestrial life forms from one ship to another.
"In this regard, I am referring particularly to the book, 'Inside the Spaceship,' which you kindly handed over to me for study. In this book on page 161 there is one of Adamski’s photos that was allegedly taken of a Venusian reconnaissance ship.
"Here it is stated that, in the picture, and in the early morning hours of April 25, 1955, Adamski is onboard a large spaceship posing directly in the 'viewport' together with an extraterrestrial human.
"This picture alone is able to convey to every truth-loving and inquiring Earth human the fact that the statements of Adamski correspond to pure fantasy, because through his steadily rising insolence and increasing carelessness, he committed here an enormous mistake that makes him guilty of deception if one pays serious attention to the fact that the size of the viewport (in which Adamski had pasted a head shot of himself) converted to true scale results in just only 15 cm.
"This is a very exact measurement, extremely precise and correct.
"If this measurement is calculated (to find) the total width of the ship, of which the length and width measurements can be checked, this would result in a total width and total height of the ship being only 171 cm with a total length of 897 cm, and this would correspond to the actual measurements.
"But Adamski had constructed models that did not exceed 30 cm and were, as a rule, only a few centimeters in size which he, in each case, mounted on glass sheets in front of the lenses of his devices and then photographed them.
"In this manner, he attained very striking photos, but especially so when he worked with telescopes and was able to pull in the Moon as a background.
"In this fashion he was able to produce a variety of photos by layering several sheets of glass with pictures, drawings and self-illuminating dyes—-one placed behind the other-—which he then photographed as a whole.
"He had a friend, who is since deceased, construct a markedly good model made out of metal. He similarly fastened this bell-shaped model to a very strong sheet of glass with holes bored through it and used it for close-up photographs, etc., which in itself were able to deceive even the experts. ..."
Marc |
Norm
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:48 am: |
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Is there a picture of it online? |
Lars
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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Hi Marc
Semajse always lets the "cat out of the bag" does'nt she?
Thanks for posting this additional explanation by Semjase about the Adamski charade. I never had yet heard the full story by her.
This picture Semjase is talking about with Adamski and the Venusian in the viewport windows
is nothing but a picture of some unknown galaxy
shot by Adamski with his telescope!!! then he probably punched holes in the photo, then took a couple of head shots of himself and inserted and underlaid these under the punched out holes!
Lars |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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Hi all.Would you put Howard Menger in the same
category as Adamski? Are there any comments about him in the contact notes?
If Adamski was a fraud and I'm not saying he isn't
than a group of his friends were also in on the fraud (they even signed an affidavit in support of Adamski).Even the well known ufo-researcher Lou Zinnstag was a supporter of Adamski for a very long time.
For me,the support by others made the Adamski case strong.Something I couldn't disregard even inspite of Semjase's statement in the contact notes.
Subsequently Howard Menger produced the same evidence,pictures and secundary testimonies which seemed to strenghten Adamski's case.The type of ship which Adamski used was spotted and photographed over different continents.
All of this influenced my opinion on this matter.
If you thought that my position on the Adamski case was rigid and even annoying which I noticed.
Know this.I only acted on the availible data and with the best of my reasoning.
Regards,TerraX. |
Lars
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:13 pm: |
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Hi E.V.
I recall Semjase told Billy somethings about Howard Menger and they were negative, I have to dig it up again to find the exact quote.
But she listed Menger as a deciever.
Lars |
Edward
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:35 am: |
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Hi Terra-V
Hope you are fine...
My apologies for being somewhat late. Been very busy.
Terra, Yes, I can understand your point of view. I would say, yes... it's the majority that counts.
I Fully Agree with what Lars has stated. Very wise spoken! And I Fully Thank Marc for contributing the text from the 29-Contact Report,July,1975.
I have read that contact once. That gives us all much More Light in the Adamski case...as being a Fraud.
As Semjase mentions the glass-plates...well you can see that Adamski Painted a saucer onto it. Atleast...I can. Not well done...I must say.
And monting a sauce also to a plate of glass.
Sure...Adamski tells his story very good, but I guess the person that Edited and Co-wrote it was just a very good Writer...to make it sound Realistic...and convincing.
And Concerning Menger...his story also sounded so realistic.
But just keep in mind..."The Darkness can Imitate and Represent The Light"
But again...Marc and Lars do make very much Clear. And in Details.
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
mgilbo
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 07:02 am: |
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Mysterious Shift in Earth's Gravity Suggests Equator is Bulging
Here is a good article on the changing of earths shape. It goes so show that our scientists are still clueless about our planet and what were really doing to it.. This article was front page on www.msn.com today also. Here is the original link..
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/equator_bulge_020801.html |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:49 pm: |
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One last issue about the Adamski case.If a group of people watches two cars collide,they'll probably have differences about what happend in detail but they do see the accident and not something else.
So what about the persons that testified to Adamski having a contact.Were they also lying?
Is there any info about that in the contact notes?
Regards,TerraX. |
Lars
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:05 pm: |
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Hi E.Vissier
About those group of witnesses who testified for Adamski's veracity. Iam not aware that Semjase or Ptaah ever said anything about these witnesses. Maybe something was said.
But let me ask you, have you seen that photo by Adamski of the mothership up close with the porthole windows showing alledgedly the heads of Adamski and a Venusian?
Does anything strike you about that photo? there's actually two photos of this, one at close range and one further away. In the further away picture the light refracting looks like a galaxy
and that Adamski must have punched several holes in the photo to make it appear to be a spacecraft with porthole windows.
have you seen this?
Lars |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 01:09 pm: |
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Hi all.
Edward,that's in interesting quote you made about darkness imitating light but how can one tell what is what?
Lars.Yes I have seen that perticular picture.
The camera used was a Polaroid.I have come along two pictures in my books.On one the portholes seem to be out of allignment on the other they seem to be in order.
But you made an error.
The light refracting that looks like a galaxy is the flash of the camera illuminating only a portion of the ship. |
Lars
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 07:49 pm: |
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Hi E.V.
So you have seen the picture, and you admit that the portholes look out of alignment ,but in the other pic. they are in order.
In my opinion they all look uneven in their circular size like they were cut or punched out!
which could be evidence of tampering.
You say I made an error in judgment about the light refracting on the side of the craft that looks like a galaxy, is really the flash of the camera
illuminating only a portion of the ship.
But how can you prove this assertion, in light of the fact that those portholes are all uneven in size as well as in aligment?
And the swirls of light in that picture looks like the spiral arms of a galaxy!
Come on what are the odds that an advanced ET race
would create a space ship with uneven in size and out of alignment portholes on the side of it's mothership?
It is ridiculous to think an alien race would not have precisely sized measured windows!
Regards, Lars |
James the truthseeker
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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Greetings,
I would have to agree with Lars that the portholes are uneven and the swirls of light in that picture do look like the spiral arms of a galaxy. If the witnesses to Adamski testify his contacts as being truth, then one must wonder what compelled them to do this in the first place such as perhaps "Madeleine Rodeffer" not wanting to be known may also compel others to testify for her, when she herself believes the messages of the German-Venusian space brothers to be of importance.
Salome,
James TT |
Michael
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:05 pm: |
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TerraX,
Wishing doesn't make things so. Meier took approximately 1500 clear daytime 35mm pictures between 1975 and 1978. During the same period of time took eight 8mm films. He presented sound recordings and metal samples which, along with the photographic evidence, remains irreproducible.
Meier published scientifically accurate information, as well as information regarding specific events, from several weeks to 20+ years in advance of discovery or occurence. All of this information was contained within conversations which also covered a lot of more mundane matters only of interest to Meier and group members.
There are at least 70 other witnesses to the sightings and at least four other people who have photographed the beamships.
Meier is the co-discoverer of the Talmud of Jmmanuel and has seen to it that it has been published. He has done all of this while raising a family and co-creating a community, which included the immense amount of (ongoing) physical work necessary for its establishment and maintenance.
In addition, Meier continues to have contacts and record the information from them. He has survived 16 assassination attempts for his troubles.
Perhaps, if it's not asking too much, we could cease trying to make square pegs fit into round holes and leave some of the "what if's" for the science FICTION forums.
Michael |
JAY
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
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Hi MIcheal and all,
The point has been made clear Michael, is all in the naturalness of it all. Meier has simply gone out as told and taken many pictures with his simple camera and not any equipment which is of high technology back in the yrs 1975-1978. Is that simple, sometimes the human mind will fully disagree and decides to live in denial of facts which have been analized many times over. Mr.Meier spirit form has gone through times past and now present trials to develop the rest of us Humans to the level where we need to so that in future generations we can be part of the PLEJARAN confederation or at least have a spiritual connection again with all other humans in other locations of the universe. We are not worthy at this time to live amongst them.
Peace be Upon the Spirit form who made this possible and that is Mr.Meier.
BE WELL Michael |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
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Hi Michael.I thought we were discussing facts surrounding different cases and the methods involved.You posted the facts that made Mr Meier's
case so strong.I just pointed out that other cases have similar facts and they don't deserve to be ignored.
Regards,TerraX. |
Michael
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 08:12 am: |
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Hi TerraX,
I am unaware of any other cases that have anything resembling the quantity, quality and uniquely prophetically accurate scientific facts and information that Mr. Meier's case has. "Similar" could mean that other people published versions of his information, which certain people have done, i.e. plagarized his work.
In truth, I am unaware of any other "cases" by the standards which are applied to this one. Mr. Meier's contacts have been going on longer than all claimed contact cases combined. And, if you really think there's still some similarity, please provide material that substantiates their credibility, the highly specific, prophetically scientific information and physical evidence that compares with Mr. Meier's.
A few photographs of very questionable (laughable) quality and some ramblings about space brothers from Venus don't quite cut it for me.
And I disagree further: They should be ignored unless there is demonstrable validity to them, unless they have weathered the storm that Mr. Meier's material (to say nothing of the person himself) has.
So, as you yourself assert, we are discussing facts here and not fantasies. Fantasies do deserve to be ignored, or perhaps relegated to a category to discuss them should the factual content of Mr. Meier's case not be sufficiently interesting.
Michael |
Marc Juliano
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 11:44 am: |
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Hi TerraX,
Some points about your comment on the funny beamship pic on FIGU's site that you describe further above, mostly to inform the readers here:
1) The photo is known to be manipulated.
2) It's an extreme blowup of an original which showed the beamship and its tripod landing legs far away in a meadow.
3) After over-magnifying it, someone then cropped the photo/negative, lobbing off the landing legs among other parts of the frame (presumably so nobody would be able to ascertain any compelling, intricate details.)
4) The protective shield of the craft was "on" and caused not only a distortion in the straight lines of the craft, but makes the background appear out-of-focus. Billy likened the effect to heat rising off a pavement and said background and foreground objects were always coming in and out of focus in many of his photo sessions.
5) From the start, Billy touted this as a real, but manipulated, photo, unlike others who try to pass off obviously hoaxed photos as real. A big difference in my opinion.
You're right: everything does need to be weighed in the end with open-mindedness. But a lot also depends on the depth of research into each and every detail, this being only one example.
Regards,
Marc |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
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Hi Michael.
I wont argue with you whatsoever that the Meier case exceeds any other case in quantity and quality.My point was and is that before Mr Meier published his experiences that there were other contact cases,these didn't provide the broad scale information that the Meier case gave.Should they therefore be ignored or brushed aside?
And these cases proceeded Mr Meier and had aspects to it that I find again in the Meier info (if I can call it that).To name just a few keywords from the top of my head ; reincarnation, spirituality,
vibrational frequency, propulsion systems.
So by "Similar" I don't mean other persons expanding on the Meier info but info proceeding the Meier case.
I started out comparing the Adamski case with Mr Meier's who by information out of the contact notes read it himself.I agreed that most of his pictures taken of the so called Venusian scoutships are of low quality.Was it not for the testimonies of other people and pictures taken by other people of the same craft,I would probably give the whole Adamski business little attention.
Here's my problem.What makes the Meier case so formidable,the pictures by Mr Meier and by others, the sworn testimonies.'You' (no person particular intended) use these tools to validate the Meier case but you refuse to use these tools in the same manner on other cases primarely because the other contact cases provided less than Mr Meier.
That's what I've been trying to say by keeping an open mind.
After reading some odd 25 years about the Ufo phenomanon,seeing a ship on three occassions and other experiences which I wont list due to personal reasons I think I know a few things.
I started out with Adamski simply because it was the first case reaching the public.Not long after Adamski came Howard Menger.His pictures were a lot better,still in black and white and by todays standards of low quality resolution wise.
Howard Menger's pictures show the same craft but this time on the ground with an ET in front of it.
It's not a sharp picture but dimensions can be made out.(If you like I can make a scan from the books and send them to Marc Juliano which he will put on the board if that's possible,or I can send them to your e-mail adress if you like)
To go into detail of these cases and what was discussed I recommend the book written by Timothy Good named Alien Base since it would take me forever to write all of it down on the discussionboard.In that book two other less known cases are also brought forward.The names of these persons are Paul Villa and Ludwig F. Pallman both proceeded Mr Meier.Paul Villa made many daytime photo's of solid metallic objects of different sizes at medium and close range.
To finalise this I would say read about other contact cases simply because it would widen your perspective.
Regards,TerraX |
Edward
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 01:57 pm: |
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Hi Terra-V...and All...
Hope you are doing find...
Sorry again...on the late side. Very busy now adays.
Well, concerning 'The Darkness Imitating the Light':
I can only say...that I have sorted the Adamski case as far as I can. And there has been very very much Manipulating...in the ufo field. And some or most of these things have been discussed here on the board a long while back.
Maybe if you do a Search on Adamski...you can still find what has been posted...then. So, for me...much has been clearfied concerning Adamski. Witnesses or no witnesses.
As Billy has mention...the Frauds will all disappeard one by one..and this has come to pass! Try and find Menger. Do a web-scearh and you can not even find a Home-page from him! And the Adamski case...; you don't heard Nothing from them. They just Live on his old material. It's become an 'Old Religion' for his followers!
As Billy Predicted....ALL WANNABEES will disappear one by one!
And I would like to mention; I have Seen Space Ships...and Not UFO's...Yes...The Real Thing....so I Know what I'm taking about.
I do not mean to sound arrogant..when saying this. I have just had My Own Proof...and Can tell the Real Thing....from any thing that is Fake...Fraud....etc. And have had acouple of witnesses also. But even if I did not have them..it would not really care to me. But I'd rather not go further in my own details.
And Marc explains it again...very Clear also.
Take Care...Be Healthy...Terra-V...
Edward... |
Norm
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 02:15 pm: |
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Terra X "Should they therefore be ignored or brushed aside?"
I would say yes if they are frauds. Anyone can make up New Age stuff, borrow from other sources, and add UFO's, then act like it came from somewhere. Just because some of the info seems similar to Billy's doesn't make it valid. Remember Billy did a lot of studying in Asia and the Middle East, where they intern got it from Ancient ETs.
I have to agree with Michael, why are so many here wasting their time discussing Adamski and Sitchin. I find Billy's material far more interesting than these guys. Alan F. Alford wrote a book called Gods of the New Millennium where he agreed with Sitchin on everything, then after more research wrote two new books basically disagreeing with Sitchin's conclusions. For further info go to his WebSite.
http://www.eridu.co.uk/Author/Ancient_Astronauts/ancient_astronauts.html
As for myself I'm going to stick with a known and trusted source Billy Meier. I have read a lot of UFO books over the years, and Billy has the best info and proof bar none! |
Edward
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
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Hi Terra-V...
My first heard ufo encounter was that of Betty and Barny Hill. I was about of the age of 9-10 years old. And it was on tv...and even the kids my age...talked about them in those days(mid-60ties)
And I even watched the document series in those days. I did not really know much aboutAdamski...Menger....No! But I did of Betty and Barny Hill! And They are 'Authantic' Also!! And one of the first to have encountered the Grays! The REAL Grays! And they have also attracted me very much.. their case. Did as much scearching on them as I could. And One can see on Both their Faces...They Are Telling THE TRUTH!
And I was Glad to hear...by Billy that They ARE AUTHANTIC!
So, my Feeling....was right all the time concerning those two.
So, I Can See just by Looking at someone...if they are Lying...or telling The Truth. I have enough...'People Knowledge' as they say here. And most of the time I am Correct!
So, again...Billy....just Tells More...About EVERYTHING....than any Contactee known to me.
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 03:01 pm: |
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Hi Edward.I think I can tell a bit from peoples faces too.When I saw Howard Menger being interviewed I could tell he was being truthfull.
He's a gentleman in every fiber of his body.
Norm,so all the ones that came in the publicity with there contact stories before Mr Meier are all fakes and frauds?
Regards,TerraX. |
Michael
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 05:28 pm: |
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TerraX,
Yes, absolutely: Fakes and frauds until they, or you, prove otherwise.
Despite Meier providing physical and informational evidence to the highest standard of proof he has been accused of being a fraud, and still is by many people.
If it is more important to you to conjecture about dead end fantasies which have provided no proof and nothing of importance (at least that I have any knowledge of) perhaps it's time for you to produce some evidence that is worthy of the time and space that this subject has taken.
We're discussing facts here, not how nicely people smile or appear to be.
Now, do you, or do you not, have something to put on the table?
Michael |
Norm
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 06:33 pm: |
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Terra X, The answer is no, the Dan Fry contactee case was real, and he was before Meier!
Edward, If you get a chance, watch the movie about Betty & Barney Hill called The UFO Incident Starring James Earl Jones, its really good! |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 12:41 am: |
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Michael,
So it's guilty untill proven innocent.What an enlightend view.If you have this approach to it allready you probably wont accept anything else nonetheless I'll make a 'few' scans and send them to your e-mail adress. |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 12:57 am: |
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Hi all.
For those interested Paul Villa's contact story along with 3 of his picture's can ve viewed at;
http://home.earthlink.net/~dexxa/_wsn/page3.html
There are 13 more pictures (as far as I know) which are not displayed but are in the books.
Regards,TerraX. |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:18 am: |
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Hi all.
For those interested about Howard Menger.After doing some searching on the net the best recommendation would be his own site,unfortunatly his pictures are not displayed.
http://www.howardmenger.com
Regards,TerraX. |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:33 am: |
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Hi all.
For those interested about Ludwig F. Pallmann I recommend the following site.To my amazement he worked with Wendelle Stevens.
http://www.timestar.org/kosmophilosophy.htm
Finally,here are a 'few' books that are availible of contactees and there stories;
http://www.spiritwritings.com/bookscontactees.html |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:03 pm: |
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Hi E.Visser/Terra X,
Your open-mindedness is to be commended. Thanks for the above links.
I have commented before on this forum that the strict "ists" and "isms" of some Figu-ists and Figu-ism is similar to a rather narrow-minded "fundamental-ism." I do agree that there are other cases worthy of consideration, even though this Forum is essentially intended for Billy Meier's case. And, understandably, the vast amount of material related to his case is more than enough for many to absorb in a lifetime.
Your ability to pursue an eclectic approach and 25 years of case studies is quite impressive.
I also agree with Marc's comment that " . . . everything does need to be weighed in the end with open-mindedness. But a lot also depends on the depth of research in each and every detail . . . "
I think that comment applies to all cases, including the Billy Meier case. Apropos to that, the one detail that I still have difficulty with is the claim of Billy's incarnation lineage. The only "proof" of that claim remains in the illusive existence of an ancient parchment procured by some Englishman from the Egyptian black market, a document written in old Lyrian and translated within FIGU only? Wouldn't it be more credible to have outside linguistic experts substantiate the translation and its authenticity? I have difficulty sharing this particular detail of the case with interested persons or skeptics who can only receive this claim as unfortunate megalomania. The rest of the case goes "unheard." And clearly, this detail distinguishes itself from all other contact cases that I'm aware of.
Finally, I think it is well to hear Billy's own words regarding other contact cases. He says in The Truth About Billy Meier -- 'UFO BILLY', "Of a million allegations on alleged contacts with extraterrestrials and beings from other dimensions, etc., only 203 are consistent with the truth -- in other words, there is approximately 1 real contact per 5000 false claims." On a planet inhabited by billions of people in a time when decades of silence and coverups are now lifting, my guess is that there must be a significant number of allegations consistent with the truth.
Finally, finally . . . I think it would be very interesting to hear of your personal contact experiences, as well as Edward's and anyone else's. I have my own I could share as well.
Sincerely,
Linda |
Norm
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:59 pm: |
|
In contact number 235.
"Those 203 (in 1 milion) only have contacts in unconscious form because they only receive impulses without knowing that they receive impulses of teaching and instructing from higher levels. According to observers of time, it is a fact that there will be no further contacts for the next 761 earth years, except occasional encounters with extraterrestrial life forms and there will be sightings of extraterrestrial flying objects, which altogether doesn't fall into the same category of contacts regarding spiritual messages and spiritual teachings, and analogous instructions. During the next 761 years you will be the only and last contactee in this regard. |
Norm
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:29 pm: |
|
More from Contact 235.
Billy- I am the only one who has contact with extraterrestrial life forms, higher spiritual forms and high spiritual levels. How long, that's my question, how long will that situation remain?
Ptaah- I didn't say that you were the only one but that you are the sole human who has such contacts in official form, while five other persons have true contacts, they are not the same kind nor are they bound by duty in the same way, as you are. Moreover, I explained that those five other persons can in no way be found among those who deceitfulley maintain having contact with extraterrestrial life forms or with higher spiritual forms or higher spiritual levels. |
mark gilbo
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:57 pm: |
|
Does anyone have any more info on the topic 'Wolf' attacking human beings in the future? What is this and how does it come about? Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu mentioned it in his post above..
Thank you,
Mark Gilbo |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 11:29 pm: |
|
Norm,
Aren't those notes about Plejaren contacts only?
Do they exclude contacts by other ET groups?
Linda |
Norm
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:13 am: |
|
Linda, They mean all ETs not just Plejarens, as far as I can tell.
Mark, The Wolf info is in Conact 251. Look for it on the FIGU site. |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:38 am: |
|
Norm,
Could we be encountering translation problems? Compare the sources again, i.e. The Truth About Billy Meier -- UFO BILLY with Contact 235. The "203 in a million" in the first instance are "allegations" while the 203 in Contact 235 cannot possibly be if they are in in unconscious form, without knowing. In other
words it is impossible for someone to make a claim of an experience if he/she is unaware of the experience in the first place. The sources are essentially contradictory, as I read them.
Then, contact 235 goes on to say there will be occasional contacts with extraterrestrial life forms and there will be sightings of extraterrestrial flying objects . . . Now, that statement seems more consistent with the vast amount of evidence being gathered currently by such people as Dr. Steven Greer.
While these contacts do not compare with Billy's, I think a significant number of earth humans are experiencing and accepting two major things:we are not alone and 2) in order to have and maintain a sustainable civilization, we must choose a path of peace amongst ourselves and our space neighbors.
Sincerely,
Linda |
Michael
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
|
Hi TerraX,
In the for-what-it's-worth department, now that we're not so focused on what Semjase said (unless it's turned out to be scientifically accurate information) this (from the 43rd Contact, January 27, 1976, Message from the Pleiades Book 2) is what she said about Orfeo Angelucci:
"(Real-vision contact without meaning.) With reservations respecting religious expressions, which rose from his own thoughtly world, for he is a very religious and mystical charactered man, as well as his wife, too."
Michael |
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 12:46 pm: |
|
Hi Mark Gilbo:
About 'wolf', contact 251 reveal very little about it, but logically, we can assume that 397 years later, if my calculation is correct, it would happen like what has been told in contact note 251. Those creature will attack human beings and we will retreat to one last continent which was build like a fortress.
With space travel ability at that time, we could already have advance technology in weapon, but still we lost that battle to 'wolf'.
Two possiblilties here, first, we 'import' the wolf as a labor, but I kind of doubt that, because it would be more difficult for labor worker to get hold of large amount of weapons.
Second, we import the wolf as pets, and if it is so popular that most of the household has one like dog or cat nowadays, and if they are smart enough to steal and use weapon and organize to do it at the same time, then we are in trouble.
Imagine your dog or cat point a pistol at you when you are back from work???? And it happened across the planet??? We will be wiped out ....
The important lesson is : Do not migrate any creature from their home planet against their will.
hmmm....., hope I will not reincarnate to that period of time....
BTY, imagination is not guilty....
Hampton Chiu |
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:16 pm: |
|
Hi Linda:
I tend to agree more on Norm's translation.
203 in a million people are receiving impluse from higher level creatures, that would be my feeling.
I think Ptaah is not only JWHW(king of knowledge/wisdom) for our planet, he probably could be our king of evasiveness...., he is so good in answering some question without revealing other information, or contain some information in his words without saying it explicitly. Mr. Meier is pretty good at that too....., what Ptaah said is the next contact with 'high level spirit' contact will happened in 761 years later, but what is the definition of 'high level spirit' contact?
That is the tricky part, Ptaah can define it in different way thus hiding a lot of info.
We will have a lot of direct contact with other space races, but just not in spiritual lesson, maybe because most of other space travelling races do not believe in Creation, they believe so much in their technology, and everything could be explained by science.
One of the direct contact will be from the race undersea, they will come out from buttom of ocean and try to persuade us to build cities undersea, which could be a disaster for our weather pattern.
We are not alone on this planet, not to mention this galaxy or universe.
Hope this will help in translating contact note 235.
Hampton Chiu |
Norm
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:45 pm: |
|
Linda I don't read German, but it seems consistant with everything else I read about the 203 in 1 Million. I will look for more sources. |
pureharmony
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:37 am: |
|
Linda , Norm- Well darn I was looking forward to meeting them in person in this lifetime. |
E. Visser
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
|
Hi all.
I did agree that the portholes are uneven.Could the picture have been tampered with? I don't exclude that possibilty but to dismiss the entire
Adamski case because of one picture might not be wise as I will demonstrate.Photography was still in it's early stages at that time so the pictures of that era are not of high quality,especially camera's for the ordinary people.The other Adamski pictures show roughly the same light distribution.
Ok,lets judge a case simply on one picture and lets forget about eye witness testimonies, similar pictures taken by other people and so on.
Ok,lets choose Mr Meier's case and take the 6th picture in the photo section (under Ufology).
At first glance the picture looks out of focus.The background is fuzzy and the ship in front looks small.The ship appears to have a wicked shimmy in the middle section and the antenna is not in the middle and appears to have an ornament on it.
Do I simply dismiss the entire Meier case on that picture? No.
Lets take picture number twelve.Good picture with reference points.Clearly a big object in the distance behind a tree.
The 'weddingcake' ship looks good too.Take that ship,make a black and white picture of it in the sky with no reference points and you would have something similar as Adamski's scoutship.
As I said before pictures are one thing but there are other elements to a contact case that are equally important and should be looked at with an open mind.
Regards,TerraX. |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 12:09 pm: |
|
Pureharmony,
Don't give up just yet!
Like you, I know credible people who have not only seen ships but who have also encountered ET beings. Even the contact note above allows for occasional encounters with extraterrestrial life forms.(I suppose the operative word here is "occasional.")
A woman friend from Washington met beings with her little girl, who subsequently referred to them as "angels." Dr. Steven Greer of CSETI has described various encounters with different ET's
and, as the physician, described their physical bodies for a group of us attending one of his workshops in Mt. Shasta, California. My first question of him was, "Did they dematerialize?" and he replied, "Yes, they vanished."
I asked that only because I assumed that would be the case, having met a being myself in the early 1980's who I will never forget, as he appeared before several of us in broad daylight in a small beach town in California. His vibration was indescribably beautiful, and he emanated pure love. I tried desperately to make contact with him and kept calling out to him as "Dear Friend! Dear Friend!" However, he was suddenly "gone."
It's my understanding that "dematerialized" or "vanished" = "beamed up."
So, keep your eyes wide open, dear pureharmony, and don't blink too fast!!
Linda |
James the truthseeker
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:13 pm: |
|
Greetings Linda,
I just got back from Mt. Shasta about a week or so ago and it was the best trip yet ever! There you can see things from Bigfoot to UFOs, to lights on the mountian etc, etc. I've posted a photo of UFOs around the mountian at the photos area on the eduardmeier.org site if you want to see it.
Peace in knowing,
James the truthseeker |
Edward
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:03 pm: |
|
Hi Norm....
Thank you for you adivce...on the motion picture film of Betty and Barny Hill: The UFO Incident.
I have been wanting to see that film...but Never had the chance.. believe it or not. But, if I have a chance I will do so.
Many Thanks Norm...
Take Care...Be Healthy... |
Edward
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:12 pm: |
|
Hi Linda...and All...
Hope you are doing fine...
Linda, I do agree with Norm...concerning the 203 on the million.
I would not think it could be a translation error?
And ofcourse Billy being The Only One...Having 'Face to Face' contacts with the 'Plejarans...and their Federation'. And NO ONE ELSE!
So, other people may Ofcourse....have 'accidental' encounters with other Ufos(ET-beings)....which can not be shut out. Which are Not..Real Contactee...Contacts. 'Unless'...they have been recieveing Telepathic-
impulses....etc. Which Do happen from time to time.
'But'... One can even let One's Mind...get carry Away! So, this too...we have to keep in mind. To be on the Safe Side...I would say that even my Telepathic-Images(as I had always called them)would be 50-50. And this came with my encounters in the mid 70ties to about mid 80ties. Now, so every now and then I have some Images just like some
months ago...I envisioned....2 beamships hovering above tree tops at the Semjase Center at night. Each above a tree top across each other. This was after eating time at the center.
And I would like to mention as Guido said in 'AYTF'...that there are even Terresterial Ships seen in the skys...and that the people encountering these...will Not Admit...them being from earth it self. So, I truly Agree with what Guido says.
Unless....a Real Extraterresterial being manifests in front of them. Then I would say it was a Authantic encounter with being from another world or dimention...etc. Or the ship makes all sorts of flying patterns which No earthly ship can make. And I've seen...ships...make the fastes..zig-zag
...up...down moves....which to me...No earthly ship could do. And even a big ship(cigar)...that just Disappeared if front of me and 2 other persons. Being my witnesses. And they had Always laughed at me in those days. But now they had Their Proof.
So, I would say...I was just Lucky...having my encounters...
in those days. I have the Proof of Extraterresterial Life forms...and will share it with whom would like to hear me. Thats all I can do.
I've even wrote a manuscript...of my experiences..and of
others around me....but in the 80ties...the publishers just Laughed at me when I received their comments. So, I just put the manuscript in the Freezer....so to speak. Sometimes...I thought to myself...'Why did I go through All the trouble'? People just Laughed and Mocked me. Well, I guess it was Not meant to be.
It's getting way to long now...what I've typed.
I hope I kinda clearfied abit of myself for you all....
Take Care...Be Healthy..Friends...All...
Edward... |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
|
Yes, Edward,
I would like to hear about your experiences with extraterrestrial life forms if you would care to share them, either here on this board or privately on e-mail.
Personally, I'm about as interested in ships as I am in cars. That is, I'm not interested nor do I really pay attention to them, but I do pay attention to their drivers, i.e. the beings behind the wheel so to speak, and who they are, where they're from, what they want, what they're about, and why they're here.
ET telepathic impusles don't really interest me, either, as they cannot be confirmed or substantiated with any probative value. But these face to face encounters are of interest to me.
So, if you wish to share, please do!!!
Linda |
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:36 pm: |
|
Hi Edward:
I will be extremely interested in hearing your story.
I myself saw an UFO in Taiwan back in 70s with my 2 roommates, that object looks like an unmaned probe, hovering for 20 minutes and left in high speed, no conversation or sighting of the life form.
Please share your story with us...
Hampton Chiu |
JAY
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:26 am: |
|
HI Edward,
Yes Ed, you are getting an audience, lol. Give us the story, my email address is in my profile here.
BE WELL Ed |
pureharmony
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 03:32 pm: |
|
Linda,
Thank you, I have renewed hope now!
The being that you met, did he look like us?
The vibration that you speak of "indescribably beautiful" , I feel as though I know exactly what you speak of here, I have experienced vibrations similar to what you describe- but only since last year, after my little brother's passing over. I believe that he is near me when that vibration is felt, like a swirling vortex of high vibrational energy with Love! Its so incredible it makes you wish that they were around more often.
Pureharmony |
James the truthseeker
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:35 am: |
|
Greetings Hampton Chiu,
So you live in Taiwan? A few years ago, I met all these people from Taiwan who had this secret Tao religion which they told me was actually started by a UFO sighting or enounter in China. Then they went on to say that the Chinese civilization was started by 7 tall nordic type beings.
Will it looks like you got everyones curiosity going Edward, including me.
James TT. |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 11:31 am: |
|
Hi Pureharmony,
Yes, the being I saw looked liked us, that is he appeared quite human, and he was extraordinarily attractive with dark wavy hair, approximately 35 years old (or maybe 900 years old in ET years?). His eyes were so clear and so loving! Dr. Greer described an ET man who was "exceedingly handsome," and I wondered if we had seen the same being.
Actually, I may have met him again a few days later, but I cannot be sure if it was the same being. This was late in the evening and much darker, so I could not see as clearly. This time, however, the "presence" I felt was too intense for me to withstand, and I went into some kind of altered state as a result. But he did identify himself as "Hawkeye," perhaps a nickname. And then, he was "gone."
I think I should amend my post above when I say I'm not really interested in ships. If I got offered a ride, trust me, I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to go for a spin!
Linda |
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
|
Hi JTT:
While we are waiting Edward to bring us his exciting contact stories, I just want to bring a quick thought about what you said in your e-mail.
I hope you don't mind that I used 'JTT' for your abbreviation.
Regarding secret Tao religion, at least in Taiwan, everyone is free to believe in whatever they want, unlike China, where government has strick control over temple or church.
In fact, Tao might be regarded more as a philosophy than a religion, it teaches people to live simple, reduce desire and want thus purify your soul, and also believe in natual law will pervail, so minimun human intervention is needed.
A friend of my wife, who is in studying Chi(the finest material described in contact note 251 as the fundemental element of all things) in a Tao related group, was able to float while meditate, and he told my wife that everyone should be able to do that if you practice, I might contact that group and see what their training manual looks like.
BTY, chi practice is essential in mastering martial art.
So let's wait for Edward to dig out his script in one of his box.....
Hampton |
James the truthseeker
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 12:57 am: |
|
Greetings Hampton,
Yes you may call me JTT if you want to simplify my name.
Unlike the Taoists, the secret Tao religion I was refering to from Taiwan is actually a tao philosophy combined with 5 of the worlds main religions. Though I know these people are of good intentions, I soon found that the religious part of it soon got in the way with the Tao cultivations of this energy we know as Tao & chi, also known as ki, prana, orgone, tachyon, thought particles, etc. After spending a year and a half with them, I left the group when I started learning more of the Tibetan Dzogchen which relates in many ways to Billy's teachings. In the tao, I soon found many paradoxes of opposing thought that people were confusing together such as:
Disire / addiction,
polarity / duality,
discipline / self-responsibility
judgement / discernment
self pride / self love
I don't know why they're religion was secret, as they base much of it out of their privit homes which they call "Holy houses". They use groups of 3 young children who channel together the Buddhas of which became quite scary to everyone in the room. They feel that young children are of purity of mind to be able to do this. It really didn't feel right so I left the group altogether. Perhaps Billy can one day comment on this secret underground religion.
Peace in wisdom,
James the truthseeker |
Edward
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:23 am: |
|
Hi Linda...and All...
Hope you are doing fine...
Sorry...I'm Late again....
Am Sooooo Busy...these days. I know....NO Excuses...
Hi, Linda, Jay, Hampton, James-T-T...Yes, Please give me this week to write some suitable...if you will. Yes,......I do have to Dig
in my Big Box...and see where I've put em.
But, it is also Not correct to Post One's enconuters on this board as we all have to be Focused on Billy. I would like to add.
Linda I did Not have Face to Face..Contact. To make this clear..ok.
But I did do my best to paint and draw the beings in my Telepathic Images. So, this can be very difficult to do...paint the likeness as much as what I have seen. Can be off...so to speaking.
I'll see what I can do ok. Again...please be patient..thank you.
Maybe I'll put up some paintings pictures also.
So Please have patience ok...
Hampton..BTW..very interesting about your friend that can 'Float'(Levitate)..sure see what you can find out. Surely I would Not doudt..that it can be done...But Only by Ones being very High
Advanced...into meditation. And not to foreget..
the Rope levitations done in India. Done in Deep Meditation.
Take Care...Be Healthy..
Edward... |
Edward
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 02:48 pm: |
|
Hi Hampton and All...
It came up to me..that some years back as I was watching the French tv..there was this programma concerning Occult things etc.
Well...this episode was about an African Medicineman. So...the camera crew and the commantator went to that small African village(somewhere deep in africa).
They meant the medicineman...and he told them he was going to Levitate in front of their eyes.
So, the cameraman set up the camera and the sound sothat he did not have to when it was late in the evening. It was to take place at night.(Outdoors)
To make it short; you could see that it was night time. And very dark except for a middle-size fire where people of the small village sat around. Then you could see the medicineman walk up...and start to dance-like...till he got into a Trance. Looked very scary...too..I must say. Then he just stood still before the fire...with his legs closed and raised his arm high and then abit down to his sides...and he Levitated very slowly...bit by bit.
The medicineman was floating very slowly around the fire before the people. And the cameraman and the commantator...were Really Shocked of what they saw before their eyes. Cameraman moving the camera as close as he could. He was not to get closer...because he was not to
disturb the medicineman and wakken him.
The commantator was very wound-up of the whole manifestation. He had a hard time finding his words.
I would think that he floated 1-1,5 metres from the ground.
So, it was live filmed. And so, it is possible to levitate.
So there are cases where I would say that it is possible. But not like those 70ties movements....'Instant Levitation'.
Which I found a bother...in a way.
So I would really think it is possible to levitate. But it is not as simple as many think it to be. But if we take for example Jmmanuel and one of the disciples(levitating above the water)...I would think that was an exception..for that moment. Jmmanuel making Clear to him...what the Mind and Spirit can accomplish....and capable of achieving.
And as some of us know that some Fakirs in India can also levitate..with or without the rope. And they have been proven..as I read by researchers.
Its getting late here...will get back to you and the rest soon..
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
Edward
| | Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 03:04 am: |
|
Hi Linda, Jay, Hampton and James-T-T...
Hope you are doing Fine...
I hope you All received what you expected?
For comments...feel free to e-mail back to me if you like?
E-mail would be a better Idea..as we should Focus on Billy and His Teachings(and Related) at this board as much as we can.
That is why I did not want to go in further concerning my encounters...ok.
I would appreciate very much by e-mail.
Thank you...
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
Linda Williams
| | Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
|
Hi Edward,
I e-mailed you the other day to say that I could not open the clip! Unfortunately, I have been unable to read your story.
While I appreciate your respect for Billy and your desire to focus on him, you might consider posting under the "Miscellaneous/Non-Figu Related" discussion area.
Others recently have been sharing stories about encounters of various sorts, so I truly don't think you would be out of line if you were to do the same. But, of course, that is entirely up to you.
Sincerely,
Linda |
Edward
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 04:16 am: |
|
Hi Linda...
Sorry to hear it did not go well.
My E-mail notifier did not work well...that is why I just e-mailed you today on the late side. My Apologies.
I would rather discussion it all via e-mail...please. Maybe Lateron I will post some of them on this board.
If there are anymore problems...with the e-mail, just e-mail me again..ok.
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
Hampton Hsien-Ting Chiu
| | Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:44 am: |
|
Hi Edward:
I did not receive your e-mail, since I have a yahoo e-mail account, it will only limit to 1.5 MB size for any incoming e-mail, if you send a big e-mail, it will be rejected.
So could you please try again to send me the e-mail?
My e-mail address is chiuwang@yahoo.com
Danke...
Hampton Chiu |
Michael
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 12:43 pm: |
|
Here is the latest depressing confirmation of what Semjase told Billy in 1975:
http://rense.com/general28/ub.htm |
markg
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 11:02 pm: |
|
If your father or mother dies, do you associate with them after death(meaning when you die and they are already dead)? Also, do you associate with them in the next reincarnation? Just wondering if you meet the same spirits every time you reincarnate.
Thank you...
Mark |
Scott B.
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 04:24 am: |
|
Hello,
I'm sure many people who have studied many of the FIGU Bullentins are aware of what has been discussed about the HAARP project.
As I understand it there will be full scale testing in the early part of 2003. This includes the two other facilities located in Norway and Greenland.
There is much concern in one of the Russian states about this, because the combined energies of these three facilities will indeed have an effect on communications as well as the more sinister effects of this type of "warfare".
This I think, will set the stage for a new and more different type of weaponry. Instead of the more conventional means of destroying each other, the U.S. now is seeking a more clandestine way of inflicting suffering on others.
Salome
Scott |
Savio
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 06:24 am: |
|
Hi markg
I think there will not be any association with so called relative spirits, because such relationship only takes
place in this material world.
There will not be a male or female spirit, hence there will not be a father or mother spirit.
I think in our million times of reincarnation, one can be father, mother, son .... of any other spirit's reincarnation.
Regards
Savio |
Edward
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 06:45 am: |
|
Hi Hampton...
I see you said something may have gone wrong?
Well, it's only 350kb.
Will try again as soon as I can ok.
Take Care...Be Healthy.
Edward... |
|
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