| Author |
Message |
   
Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 212
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:03 pm: | 
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dear froum members
Hi everybody
I was wondering what the plejarens position is regarding the nameless nothing beyond the 7 levels of absolute absolutum.
I know it remains a mystery even to them but by solving this enigma, can anybody know for sure how the Creation primodially started going right back to the inception of the nameless nothing?
I am always wondering how all this started in the first place.
I've asked similar questions before but seeing as we only have the information about how Creation or this universe came into being, one must surely then ask, how did the origin of the oringinal cause of the Creation start in the first place to make way for the 7 levels of absolute absolutum to come into being along with 10 to the power of 49 different variations of Creation now in existence?
any ideas? |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 175
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
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Hi (again) Harvey,
Vivienne wrote a good article a few weeks ago about Creation which can be found here www.gaiaguys.net/meierv1p150-157.htm linked off www.gaiaguys.net/meier.htm
Be sure to also read this recent one from her too with more Semjase translations: www.gaiaguys.net/Humandoesnotknowlove.htm
Hi Newinitiation! There's something about this in "An Interview With a UFO Contactee" I'll try to dig out for you.
Too few hours! :-)
Salome,
Dyson |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 07:00 am: |
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Dear Dyson,
I have been following your comments, postings and also your website with much interest. Congratulations to you and Vivienne on your gargantuan efforts and thank you both so very much for your translations and insights. Like the FIGU you are a guiding light....
Additionally my best wishes for for success regarding your efforts in defending yourselves against the evil ones that are attempting to stop your work in every which way. May you succeed in exhausting their fuel and in turn increasing yours - remember Hitler lost the war in part because he ran out of fuel :-) Also, please relate my thanks to Vivienne for the article posted on CREATION and the one about how we Humans do not know LOVE - and all the work that she together with you do - which helps us all.
The purpose of my email relates to "CREATION" itself. So I thought to ask you what you thought about my dilemma.
So here I go; As I understand from my reading of the Plejaren material, CREATION itself also evolves, meaning it too increases it's wisdom by participating in the eternal cycle of Birth (Big Bang) - Life (The Material Universe) - Death (Contraction/Implosion) - Rebirth (New Big Bang of a Newl= y Created Universe). Further, that CREATION creates for a period lasting 7 Great Times (where IT amasses it's infinite knowledge through the experiences and events taking place in the material universe, which also includes Human Life in all of it's evolutionary levels) and then also Slumbers for 7 Great Times where IT, like we do when we die, reflects on al= l that transpired in the previous creation and from it evolves (accumulates the knowledge and increases it's wisdom - albeit perhaps an infinitesimal amount).
If I may presume all the above is correct, and please do feel free to correct me wherever I may not be, then that would mean CREATION itself resides in a TIME restricted space and not in a TIMELESSNESS one. You see, I always assumed CREATION itself was not restricted by Space & Time, that CREATION Itself was free of the Space-Time restrictions and Laws that the Space-Time continuum abide by.However, if CREATION does indeed evolve, then that could imply the passage of time - that to evolve you need time - and time as well as space is a material universe construct.
Now to the next step. If the before mentioned is in fact so, with consideration to possible incorrect assumptions and mistakes, that would mean that it is possible that the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM is also governed by th= e same cycle of growth (birth-life-death-rebirth) but instead of evolving through the infinite life forms contained in each material universe as does CREATION Itself, the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM evolves through the infinite universes contained within itself.
Having said all this, and again with consideration to possible incorrect assumptions and mistakes - how can CREATION itself, and to the extent that we know the Ultimate CREATION which may be the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM (I am not sure but I think it was something like UR-UR-UR Creation????) - how can THIS ultimate, glorious, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, infinite, all encompassing, loving CREATIVE SPIRIT be bound by Space and Time? Is it not experiencing it all - all at once as it were? does IT (CREATION and/or the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM) need space and time to evolve? if we choose to know this ULTIMATE CREATIVE SPIRIT (CREATION or the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM) as the ULTIMATE as far as we know - how then do we reconcile IT's evolution?...assuming ofcourse that it is only the Material Life (for CREATION) and Material Universes (for the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM) that evolves in time???
Some thoughts about this which help a little are that this ULTIMATE CREATIV= E SPIRIT (CREATION, the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM and whatever may be above that - i= f anything) is both a Material Consciousness and a Spiritual Consciousness... and that it is the Material Consciousness alone that evolves and not the Spiritual Consciousness..... for it is the Spiritual Consciousness that is not restricted by the laws of Space and Time - and therefore evolution is a contradiction (only because to evolve space and time are required). Another thought occurs to me that the Spiritual Consciousness does not evolve but instead is Exalted when the Material Consciousness comes close t= o becoming ONE WITH IT - reaching UNITY of sorts....like a Climax of sorts.....
So, to make my very long and possibly very confusing rambling just a tad shorter, I ask these questions. How is it that CREATION evolves really? Ho= w does this GREAT CREATIVE SPIRIT (either that of any Universe or that of the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM) evolve? Are THEY restricted by Space and Time? and if the answer is that the GREAT CREATIVE SPIRIT (either that of any Universe o= r that of the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM) exist in both TIME/NO TIME - then how does the part that exists in the NO TIME dimension evolve? how can it? how does it? how does evolution occur in a NO TIME dimension?
Dyson, I want to thank you in advance for taking the time to read this very long and possibly not very clear email. When talking about such abstract terms it is hard for me to verbalize what I can only see with IMAGES.... However, should you be entertained with the desire to respond I would be most grateful.
My warmest regards and best wishes for continued and renewed strength to carry on in this Spiritual Awakening Path of Truth, Knowledge and Wisdom.
Saalome and Cheerio, Arie Levy |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 178
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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Dear Arie,
Wow! Thank you very much for your huge bouquet of flowers. We’re just the messengers, OK? But Vivienne says she’s glad someone is getting something from those articles.
And double wow on the substance of your posting. I think I will disappoint you now, and I hasten to add that we are only just really beginning to get into and understand what we ungrateful Earthlings have been given recently.
Creation is also called the “Siebenheit” (lit. “seven-ness”) and is also called the Insoluble Enigma by the Plejaren who also have no answers for these Ultimate Questions you so nobly wrestle with, my friend, and I give you all the credit in the world for doing it!
Here’s my parable: A 1st World anthropologist visits a primitive culture and asks the wise medicine woman what holds up the world. She says that it rests on the back of a Great Cosmic Elephant. He then asks, “And what does this elephant stand on?” She replies, “A Great Cosmic Sea-turtle”. But before he can ask her what that stands on, she says, “I know where you’re going with this, wise guy! And the answer is … it's turtles, ALL THE WAY DOWN!”
Do you understand why it’s called the Sevenness?
I think I worked it out.
It’s because it’s The Insoluble Enigma.
Keep up the good work, and if we learn any more, we’ll be sure to share it!
Cheers!
Dyson |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 06:45 am: |
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Dear Dyson,
Many thanks for taking the time to read my posting and also for responding with such immediacy. I very much enjoyed the "Turtles All The Way Down" parable....I have somehow "*seen*" something similar in my imagination before, I think I get it.
I am curious about the relationship between CREATION and the number 7 - you know; why, how, when, where, who, what....I did not know about CREATION was a.k.a. The *Sevenness,* but I am interested and it opens the door to many questions...I happen to like that number.
Once again many thanks and best wishes for continued success in your quest for truth.
Cheers, Arie Levy
p.s. Dyson, do you reckon I should post the question about how it is that CREATION evolves to Herr. Meier? Or should I presume that if the Plejaren have not answered this that it may be fruitless to bother Herr. Meier with it? |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 181
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 11:00 pm: |
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Dear Arie,
(Thank you. My pleasure)
I'm not ashamed to admit that I do not understand the importance of 7.
But I read very recently that even the Absolute Absoutum must evolve. There is more in the FIGU material, but where? and WHEN will I have time to dig it out?
I'm currently working on (among many many other things) another Asket translation which mentions the significant numbers.
Feel free to ask Billy of course, if you like. That's his job, but I can't imagine how he could answer that question in less than another book.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Dear Dyson,
Thanks again. ..... and so it is that we shall stay in the dark, for now, about this elusive number 7. I very much look forward to reading your latest Asket translation when ready for publishing.
Say, perhaps this is not the right place to post this question to you, but = I will give it a go never the less. Have you ever thought of the potential advantage of digitally recording (in German) the "OM"? The idea is to recor= d each Kannon as if they were songs, on an MP3 format so all can hear the wisdom via computers and perhaps even download them. Kind of like the "Books on Tape" concept - listen to the OM while you drive, ride your bicycle, or even in your sleep :-)
I suppose I am thinking selfishly since I do not speak German and it is so hard for me to read it... my tongue gets all tied up whenever I try to read the OM. So I thought perhaps for those who have my same limitation, listening to the book as if they were songs, may very well benefit us, at least on a subconscious level.... perhaps the embedded CODE...finds its wa= y to our material mind....sort of like the observer within (in the material consciousness) receiving the embedded CODE and hopefully those gentle impulses to help our further awakening.
I welcome your opinion with much curiosity.
Warmest regards, Arie |
Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 785
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 07:30 pm: |
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Hi Arie,
I asked the question to Billy years ago about having someone read the German version of the Talmud and record it into an audio format. He basically said "who would pay for it" to have it done?
Regards
Scott |
Norm
Member
Post Number: 816
Registered: 02-2000
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 08:11 pm: |
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Scott, I'm sure we could get a German audio book place to do it. I was thinking of paying my neighbor to read me a few pages every few days. |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:45 pm: |
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Hello Scott,
Good to hear from you.
I am not sure what the opinion of the non-German speaking FIGU Forum participants may be, but I would be interested in helping make this happen. But like Norm mentioned in his post, perhaps we could find a Swiss-German Audio Book place to give us a price and then decide if it is affordable. I= f it is not so expensive, we might all choose to contribute to the recording costs. I would be game for the project.
Cheers, Arie |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 188
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 06:46 pm: |
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Hi all,
I quite like the idea of an audio OM, in this world of I-PODS, etc.
But we struggle with the technical limitations of living far from fast land-lines here, which limits us with our computing AND I'm a little concerned that people are starting to get lazy and think all they have to do is listen to the German like background music and then they won't have to learn to actually understand it.
And I might just repeat here that www.readplease.com is a good (free!) text-to-speech engine that does very nice German.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Technod
Member
Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 07:46 pm: |
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Hello
I would like to make something along these lines of Grman audio, overlayed with ambient type rythum to aid in understanding the language .
I was just thinking about having one with the German and one with english.
Then by listening to the english enuff, and knowing were the words would be,and properly positioned German arranged in the same place as the English ,sorta a musical narration.
Thinking it might aid a bit.
I to would contribute to Arie`s idea .
brian
|
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 192
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 02:05 pm: |
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Hi Brian,
I have two comments.
1.) Languages are not like that. There are not word-for-word equivalents in translations. It wouldn't work.
2.) "ambient type rythum"? Like a drumbeat or music? Not for me please. How would that aid in understanding the language?
I know that there are programs around which will do a very nice text-to-speech-to-MP3.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 06:15 pm: |
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Dear Dyson,
Thank you very much for the link to www.readplease.com - I will play with it. In your experience, do you think "ReadPlease.com" is robust enough to be used as a tool to create the OM on audio?
Thanks for your feedback as always.
Cheers, Arie |
Melli
Member
Post Number: 84
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:09 am: |
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In regard to having the OM for example read in German and made available on some sort of audio, would be 'amazing' to say the least. In an earlier post I offered a suggestion to help make a translation of a children's book whereby I am willing to donate some $ for the cause and maybe other mothers and fathers could do like wise.
Whatever the decision if and when agreed upon, I would surely be more than enthusiastic and grateful if such an endavour would be undertaken. If the OM is on an audio CD, it could be made available through the FIgu shop, just as the next edition of TJ will soon be availble to purchase. Again, I am willing to help if possible because as we all know "nothing is impossible". And I personally feel that it has nothing to do with being unwilling to learn the language, in my case its a time constraint and I feel that it could be a very positive outcome indeed especially now, given the geo political situation around us; it would become another way of helping ourselves, the Plejarens and those who participate in the Peace Meditation on earth to greatly combine all our energies and positive vibrations to resonate with Mother Earth and help bring a better outcome for this planet.
Considering that the internet has helped so many of us already, imagine not being able to connect to the Spiritual teachings and Gaiaguys translations I think we would still be very ignorant in comparison to where we are now. Persoanlly I feel like I am connected to OM everyday, and I guess that I am and for that opportunity I feel grateful.
Please, can someone ask Billy? |
Kiril
Member
Post Number: 80
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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Subject Arie Post Number: 11
**Please refer to notes at the bottom of this post before reading**
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Arie:
Strictly in the context of the Plejaren teachings, we know that The Absolute Absolutum is an entity that gives rise to Creations(more properly stated, it provides the energy and initial "idea" that brings about the existence of a particular Creation), and that those Creations arising from the Absolute Absolutum reside, at a particular instant, in the volume that describes it.
Further as it pertains to the structure of the cosmos beyond the Absolute Absolutum the teachings describe a hierarchy of Absolutums, numbering seven types in all. The highest - that is, the absolutum that gives rise to all others, is the BEING-Absolute Absolutum. I wish to stress the fact that it is due to the BEING-Absolute Absolutum that the Absolute Absolutum exists(I'm unsure however if it is contained within it). I'm not aware that the teachings describe any higher form of existence in the cosmos.
At this point I wish to establish some ideas that are pertinent to understanding the ensuing conclusions:
a - There cannot be two infinite beings/substances/things -- Since infinite, in this context, denotes all existence.
b - A being that is dependant on another(following a causal hierarchy) for its existence is necessarily finite -- Since there can be only one infinite being/"/"(To be infinite is to have no beginning and no end - in time, spave or cause).
c - To be conscious and infinite is to be omnipotent and omniscient - To be conscious and finite is to be without those attributes.
In this light, I propose it is reasonable to conclude that all existence arising from the BEING-Absolute Absolutum are finite(including all types of Creations and the Absolute Absolutum). What of the BEING-Absolute Absolutum? - I recently asked Billy about that :
Question -
"I wish to know, from a scientific and/or philosophic perspective, if something exists in the Universe(by universe I mean All-Existents, not the cosmological domain of Creation) that requires no other thing to exist - in other words, something that exists without prior cause(is cause of itself) - whos very essence is to exist. A thing that has no beginning and has no end(Absolutely Infinite) - in time, space, power and knowledge."
BEAM's Answer -
"There is no “thing” that exists without a prior cause. Even the SEIN-Absolutum (BEING Absolutum was created (or rather created itself) out of something, even if we don’t know from what. As human beings, we will never know this. This will remain an eternal mystery to us."
Here, supposing I am right in my interpretation of his answer, the BEING-Absolute Absolutum is also finite, since it is created "out of something" - something outside itself without which it could not, and never would have existed -- and now there emerges an even more interesting question, in consideration to the principal of causality, is it possible to follow all events to a single beginning, a single cause, or are all events antecedent.
Note 1 :
The conclusions presented above are derived from 'second hand' sources - that is, the information is not read(by me) directly from FIGU publications, rather they are formed from information on this forum(in majority) and the Gaiaguys website.
Note 2:
You will notice that I have not addressed any of your questions directly. This is because I found it too difficult to interpret your questions, there existed to many undefined terms for me eg. "restricted time". So I have shared ideas I think are most relevant and hopefully helpful.
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Kiril |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 09:15 am: |
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Hello Kiril,
Thank you for your words and your time. I will try to explain what I meant when I asked if it was possible for CREATION (or the BENG-Absolutum) not to be restricted by space and time.
I believe that if anything is to "evolve", it is necessary for IT to exist in the "space/time" continuum - given that evolution itself implies time elapsed.
Should this postulation be correct, then I ask, is there anything at all that is not bound by "space/time" - that does not need to evolve - that is ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTE & COMPLETE? Well, you have gotten this answered for us by BEAM ..... and apparently NOT .... for there seems to be more according to what BEAM told you, in that the SEIN- Absolutum is not the ULTIMATE CREATIONAL FORCE and it too needs to evolve. So IT is also bound (restricted) by space and time.
Another question I have is; ""is it possible for, or does anything exist (reside) in a "no-space/no-time" zone""???? if this space existed, how does evolution take place - if time does not exist??? I am thinking we may have similar questions ... and BEAM tells us that we shan't yet know about these mysteries - as humans anyway. A bitter sweet feeling, yet comfortable in the knowing that knowledge is the key.
It is great to have met you.
Cheers, Arie |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 232
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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Dear Arie, (& Melli & ors)
Sorry I missed this posting, and thus took a while to get back to you. I think Readplease does a really good job on the German language, (NOT in English!) but I also think that any hypothetical audio version of OM would suffer quite badly if spoken by an inanimate computer who (which) did not have a brain or spirit to be able to appropriately place inflection on the right words or emphasis on appropriately placed pauses between them. Emphasis is SO important. EMPHASIS is so important. Emphasis is so IMPORTANT. See what I mean? Readplease can’t do that, and that’s one of the reasons I like to use it sometimes for proofreading our material. It doesn’t KNOW where to put its emphasis, so it’s sort of like how a third-party might understand things.
I’m a little concerned that the material already available in the English language from Billy may not be being adequately contemplated before racing onto, for instance, OM. Of course I can understand the impatience, but – as Atlant writes (in English) in his FIGU pamphlet about understanding Billy’s writings, it’s better to contemplate and really understand a single line from him than to read all his books and have it go through undigested. His material is deeeeeep, and cannot be adequately absorbed in less than several very careful readings, something that modern Earth people have little time or inclination to do.
I re-read recently in Existing Life in the Universe that an adequate study of the Spirit Lessons – if approached diligently – takes 23 years.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Kiril
Member
Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 04:00 pm: |
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Subject - Arie Post Number: 11
Minor corrections and Addition.
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1 - First Paragraph - "The Absolute Absolutum is an entity that gives rise to Creations"- Correction : ...gives rise to the first Creation from which all others emerge.
2 - First Paragraph - "more properly stated, it provides the energy and initial "idea" that brings about the existence of a particular Creation" - Correction : With the above correction this sentence become superfluous. The Absolute Absolutem provides the idea for the first Creation only.
3 - Third Paragraph, Line 4 - "...no beginning and no end - in time, spave or..." - Correction : That should be space not spave.
4 - Addition : In attempting to show that the Being-Absolute Absolutum and all its children are finite, and limited in both power and knowledge I am making indirect reference to the following quoted question from your post -
"...how can CREATION itself, and to the extent that we know the Ultimate CREATION which may be the ABSOLUTE ABSOLUTUM (I am not sure but I think it was something like UR-UR-UR Creation????) - how can THIS ultimate, glorious, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, infinite, all encompassing, loving CREATIVE SPIRIT be bound by Space and Time? Is it not experiencing it all..."
I propose in my postNo.80 that it is yet uncertain if there exists an ultimate being, however, most certainly, we may say that it is not the Absolute Absolutum nor any of the Creations/Universes within its bounds. And so it is quite possible that all of the aforementioned beings do evolve.
You are quite right to question, however, the applicability of the concept of evolution to an infinite being. An infinite being is all and is all powerful, in absolute terms, and it is therefore absolutely perfect.
Although I use the term 'it', which denotes reference to a particular entity(one that is necessarily finite), I wish to make it understood that the concepts of space and time(and perhaps even consciousness) can not be applied to an infinite being -- from which point to which point, in time and space, is a measurement of infinity?.
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Kiril |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 11:45 pm: |
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Gracias for the email response Dyson.
I tried the Read Please and you are correct in that EMPHASIS is absent - it is truly spiritless and devoid of any energy - electrical current not withstanding of course :-) I am however still interested in one day having an audio version of the OM.
Yet even though you are correct in that the few available Meier texts in english can be enough to fill one's mind with questions (both answerable an= d unanswerable), enliven one's time with endless consciousness expanding knowledge, capture one's imagination with dreams of the future and the past= , and help oneself theorize as well as research about the spirit, the GREAT SPIRIT, human history, science, mathematics, physics, metaphysics, biology, chemistry, technology, biotechnology, genetics, engineering, politics, religion(s), nutrition, the universe, travel, space and time, planets and stars, planetary federation(s), war and peace.....and so much more.....indeed the quest of a hungry minds oxygen and a sweet tooth's cand= y can be found in perhaps one text alone.
Somehow the OM seems to hold an energy and it appears to be a source book from whence all else may follow...I would very much enjoy dedicating 23 years of my life to the OM - if I were to choose one book....but then again, the order of things may be of great importance and perhaps it is wis= e to leave some things for when preparedness is afoot.
Cheerio and Saalome, Arie |
Arie
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 12:00 am: |
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Hello Kiril,
Thank you for the dialogue.
So what do you think happens to the concept of evolution as it relates to your Infinite Being if space and time do not apply to an infinite being?
Thank you again.
Cheer and Saalome, Arie |
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 137
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 12:09 am: |
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Billy has said that there is no absolute perfection anywhere, and I concur. It is logical. And likewise to me there is no such thing as absolute infinity. If there were we could not travel to the end to establish its infiniteness and hence it would be forever unknown to all.
These terms "perfection" and "infinite" are relative when we use them. Even numbers can't be said to go to infinity because before getting there the universe will enter its great sleep and all counting cease. Even if that weren't the case all that could be said is the numbers keep going on -- infinity cannot be predicted or established.
We cannot know that there is something without beginning or end. That is just unkowable.
cpl |
Tony
Member
Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:23 pm: |
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Hi Jacob,
if we could see our own spirit/fragment of creation in the beyond/fine matter, what would it look like? |
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