| Author | Message | ||
    Markc Member Post Number: 337 Registered: 06-2000 |
Hi Everyone ; I hope you'll take action with Planned Parenthood to stop fake "clinics" from spreading falsehoods and misleading women. This week, a congressional report proved that anti-choice "crisis pregnancy centers" have received $30 million of our tax dollars to tell patients that, among other things, suicide, breast cancer, and infertility are much more likely to occur following an abortion. None of these claims is true, of course. Take action to stop these clinics from deceiving women at their most vulnerable moments: http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/crisis_clinics2 These centers use neutral-sounding names and ads, falsely promising full reproductive health services. And now, thanks to an investigation by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), we know exactly what they're telling women, because female investigators called, saying they were pregnant, and recorded their conversations. What kinds of sage advice are our tax dollars funding? Here are some direct quotes: The research shows: Psychological stress after an abortion is NO MORE COMMON than after childbirth. But they said: Abortions cause "guilt ... sexual problems ...suicidal ideas ... drug use, eating disorders" and "a downward spiral." The research shows: Abortion does NOT cause an increased risk of breast cancer. But they said: "All abortion causes an increased risk of breast cancer in later years." The research shows: Abortions in the first trimester, using the most common abortion procedure, create NO risks for future fertility.But they said: It's "common" for abortion to lead to "many miscarriages" or "permanent damage," such that "you wouldn't be able to carry." Our government should not be funding anti-choice propaganda. Take action right now: http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/crisis_clinics2 These examples don't represent just a few bad apples. The vast majority (87 percent) of centers called in this study provided false or misleading information about the health effects of abortion. Please help spread the word by forwarding this message far and wide. Mark Campbell | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 46 Registered: 04-2006 |
"This week, a congressional report proved that anti-choice "crisis pregnancy centers" have received $30 million of our tax dollars to tell patients that, among other things, suicide, breast cancer, and infertility are much more likely to occur following an abortion. None of these claims is true, of course. Take action to stop these clinics from deceiving women at their most vulnerable moments:" http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/crisis_clinics2 Hi Mark, are you condoning abortion, because isn't abortion in the vast majority of cases on earth murder? "Meier asked if the Pleiadians allowed abortion, and Semjase answered that they did, with natural substances, only up until the third week because that was when they knew that the human spirit was present. Because they had the scientific ability to know that with certainty, they considered an abortion after that time to be murder." http://www.figu.org/us/figu/supporter/michael_horn/horn3.htm | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 906 Registered: 02-2000 |
Join,& send free faxes. http://www.populationconnection.org My Website | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 338 Registered: 06-2000 |
Hi Matt ; My answer : "only up until the third week " , which isn't murder , because the spirit isn't yet present . My reasons for recommending the above information are merely responsive ; the fake organizations manipulate people with their dogma , and people need to be informed . If everyone who counters their actions with an abortion doesn't know about the 21 days without a spirit , then further actions are required . Such as this website , which has much information about the subject . In any case , any information at this point is damage control , and it's not going to be perfect because the religions have a stronger hold on the masses than reason and the educated choice . Mark Campbell | ||
Newinitiation Member Post Number: 236 Registered: 07-2005 |
To forum Do our current medical procedures allow for such termination of pregnancy before 21 days? I have yet to hear such abortion procedure so early into the pregnancy being available or allowed by any medical clinic. Any thoughts on how such procedures can be made available? | ||
Vestri Member Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2006 |
Whats the percentage of pregnant women in the world that find out that their pregnant within three weeks of when they first got pregnant? And whats the percentage of those pregnant women who found out they were within three weeks pregnant - whats the percentage of those pregnant women that end up getting an abortion STILL within that three week pregnancy period? I don't know but my guess is that about %.01 of pregnant women in the world get an abortion to their three week old baby fetus. All the other %99.9 of pregnant women in world who get an abortion to their baby fetus after the three week period of their pregnancy, are all MURDERERS. If this was planet Erra, all them women would be up for murder. Jacob on suicide and murder: "In short: suicide always has a negative effect on the person and his/her surroundings and family. A much lesser known effect is that a violent death, suicide is in all forms violent. Violence in the spirit teachings does not relate perse to physical force of just one person but also influences the WHOLE of humanity, how unbelievable that may sound. A violent human death, regardless if it's suicide or murder, is like ripping out a thread from a tapestry, it affects the whole of the tapestry and weakens it profoundly. If all people could see how sensitive the human collective is, how very tightly connected, then people in their right mind would never commit murder, suicide or kill somebody, except out of self-defense." http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/3556.html?1153432754 | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 49 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Matt ; My answer : "only up until the third week " , which isn't murder , because the spirit isn't yet present. ? Mark, you never said "only up until the third week" anywhere in that post? Also most women that have abortions in the world today, don't have abortions during their first three weeks of pregnancy, but have it after that time, when there is a spirit present in their fetus. This is why I asked if you were condoning abortions in your prior post, because that is what you seemed to be doing there. | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 340 Registered: 06-2000 |
You know , Matt , this is a topic that always seems to go nowhere . If you ask me if I condone abortions , that's illogical , because I don't have the power to condone abortions or not condone them in the first place . I don't have the AUTHORITY to choose that for someone else . So I guess your next question would be whether a woman has the right to condone her own abortion and I would say Yes ; because this planet is in a hell of a lot of trouble , overrun with unwanted or ill children , and I don't even want to ask you if you condone for a woman to have an AIDS baby or a Addicted Drug baby . It's her own choice ,unless someone (like yourself) wants to interfere ; and then I'm the wrong person to ask , because your interference or activism is not relevant to me . So ,because you seem to be making moral judgements of me when no real situation is present ; I answer you like this : No situation is present . As for the hypothetical situation : If it were a real situation , would my opinion be relevant to my detatched opinion now ? Easy to answer with no baby on the way , innit ? What would you do ? Oh ,that's right , noone knows UNTIL YOU'RE IN IT . (And I'm talking about when the people in question have the horrible situation , not the supportive good situation .) As for my quote , it came from your post . My answer came from your quote : "Meier asked if the Pleiadians allowed abortion, and Semjase answered that they did, with natural substances, only ****up until the third week**** because that was when they knew that the human spirit was present. Because they had the scientific ability to know that with certainty, they considered an abortion after that time to be murder." Up until the third week would be ideal , the entire situation is not . I've given my opinion , and now that's all . Mark Campbell | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 914 Registered: 02-2000 |
At least we know Embryonic Stems Cells are ok to use for medical research because there is no Spirit in them, because they are used only a few days after fertilization. The Christians have it wrong, yet again! My Website | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 480 Registered: 01-2004 |
Vestri, The quote you used from my post about murder and suicide is only partially aimed at abortion, in theory abortion after three weeks would be murder, but exceptions confirm the rules, and there are a lot of valid exceptions. So to say that 99.9% of those women would be murderers is way off and a insult to all those women undergoing this dramatic procedure for whatever valid and pressing reason. I will write more extensively about this subject. Salome, Jacob "If you measure the size of your Ego to the size of your knowledge or what you assume you know, then you should always try to remember that your ignorance is infinitely larger, than any knowledge you have." | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 53 Registered: 04-2006 |
So I guess your next question would be whether a woman has the right to condone her own abortion and I would say Yes ; because this planet is in a hell of a lot of trouble , overrun with unwanted or ill children , and I don't even want to ask you if you condone for a woman to have an AIDS baby or a Addicted Drug baby . Mark, I am obviously talking about women having abortions after their three week pregnancy period, because that is the time when MOST women have abortions. So what you are saying there is that you condone women to commit murder?? Mark this discussion is about women having abortions in GENERAL. Why bring this into the discussion?? "woman to have an AIDS baby or a Addicted Drug baby" | ||
Vestri Member Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2006 |
"So to say that 99.9% of those women would be murderers is way off and a insult to all those women undergoing this dramatic procedure for whatever valid and pressing reason." But Jacob, the vast majority of ALL THOSE women that have abortions that you speak of, choose to have abortions out of trivial reasons based around things like - it was an accident and it (motherhood) conflicts with their lifestyle or career. This surely doesn't justify committing murder, does it? I am curious to hear what you call a genuine 'valid and pressing' good reason for committing murder? (apart from the pregnancy endangering the life of the mother) | ||
Markc Member Post Number: 342 Registered: 06-2000 |
Matt ; To answer your questions , read my previous post . Once I answer a question , it stays answered . As for why I brought AIDs babies etc., into the discussion , it's because I said so . Mark Campbell | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 921 Registered: 02-2000 |
Since Earth humans have no clue of what their doing. I have a hard time believing its that big of a deal. There is no judgement waiting. We all don't want to kill anything. But an unborn 4 week old spirit will just recycle & its not like killing a person that has lived outside the womb. Just my observation. My Website | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 04-2006 |
mark, all i can say is that judging by the vote count on your number 340 post, there seem to be quite a few people here who definitely don't share the same view as you do about "So I guess your next question would be whether a woman has the right to condone her own abortion and I would say Yes ; because this planet is in a hell of a lot of trouble , overrun with unwanted or ill children , and I don't even want to ask you if you condone for a woman to have an AIDS baby or a Addicted Drug baby ." The plejarens never said that we should cut down our population by abortions, they said to do it by birth control. I think that Billy would say the same thing too. Mark, I am surprised to say the least that you of all people here are saying what you have said here about you being all for women having their right to have abortions (after 3 week) and commit murder, because you should know better, as you know the Meier material and know that its murder. That is all that I have to say. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 633 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Norm.... You Hit The Nail On The Head! The Christosians are just TOO BUSY with their Christosian 'LIES' to Comprehend anything of True CREATIONAL Manifestations and it's Processings. Eventually, THEIR BOOK OF LIES(The Bible)...leads them to Lies Of Delusional Annihilation, instead of the Healing of humanity as/in a whole. Delusional literature...results into Delusional Out-Comes, as you may know. Edward. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 174 Registered: 04-2003 |
Norm, Earth humans have no idea of what they are doing because they don't pay attention. They are consumed with their materialism and have lost sight of the important things, like life. | ||
Mgilbo1 Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 09-2002 |
Hi Matt, "The plejarens never said that we should cut down our population by abortions, they said to do it by birth control. I think that Billy would say the same thing too. Mark, I am surprised to say the least that you of all people here are saying what you have said here about you being all for women having their right to have abortions (after 3 week) and commit murder, because you should know better, as you know the Meier material and know that its murder. That is all that I have to say." First Matt, we all would have no idea of a Spirit entering a body in week 3 if it wasn't for the Plejarens. Even though we have been told by them that this is the case, I think feelings about abortions should remain neutral until we have proof that this is fact. We are lucky in the sense we have Billy's material to answer questions that could NOT be answered in our present state of development. Until we are able to detect the presence of a spirit ourselves, Earth humans (I think) should be neutral in beliefs on abortions. Even though I believe that the spirit enters the body in 3 weeks, I can't prove it to be so until we advance further as a planet. Belief always gets people in trouble and thats what taking a side in abortion will do. Mark Gilbo | ||
Ritak Member Post Number: 68 Registered: 05-2000 |
According to my Q & A with a FIGU member when I was in Switzerland, abortion is completely acceptable, even if it's after the first three weeks. A woman doesn't have to worry if she is going to go to hell, etc. The spirit of a child senses when it isn't going to be born and doesn't attach itself. Although with the legalization of the abortion pill, now a woman can terminate as early as she realizes that she is pregnant with an unplanned pregnancy. Of course, birth control methods should be practiced at all times so that abortion does not become the method. | ||
Jo_jo Member Post Number: 176 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hello Ritak, I was just wondering how the spirit of a child can sense when it isn’t going to be born? Maybe this isn't directly applicable, but I thought Billy said the spirit form doesn’t choose when, where or how to be born, that this is directed by natural/creational laws. An abortion is only a possible event unless it actually occurs. A woman can always change her mind. Wouldn’t death to the fetus occur if the spirit wasn’t attached 21 days after conception? It would seem logical when a fetus isn’t developing properly, as in the case of severe genetic defect, after which a spontaneous/natural miscarriage occurs, that the spirit would not have attached because nature/creation would know a viable life couldn’t be formed. And this would be known within 21 days of conception. Just some thoughts. | ||
Jacobus Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 07-2006 |
I think that all of this boils down to self responsibility. If a woman, under normal surcumstances, is not responsible for her own pregnancy, then it would be the same as to say that our economy is not dependant on drug money(cocaine etc.). But before I drift off somewhere , there is a story that i would like to share... It is only to the Stellenbosch student, that the word "Neelsie" bares any significance. Just to explain what I am talking about, the Neelsie is the local student centre\cafeteria, where all the people go who don't have "time" for cooking food themselves. It was lunchtime, well it had to be, because the place was just crawling with umans, you know, it was buzzing like a beehive with too many bees. For the students it must have felt just like home. They looked so... so.. in their element, you know, eating junkfood and enjoying their favourite pastime, watching MTV... Come on you guys, you know exactly what they show on MTV nowadays. I am taking about people like Christina Aguilera ,Madonna, Beyonce and the likes,who, as rolemodels to the youth, dance like strippers and at the same time thank God whenever the oppertunity is given.Thank Him for what? For being such a slut?Well, we all know that sex sells, right...so is all of this just about greed? These people, and I am not just talking about the puppets,are unknowingly, committing crimes against the Earth! Do they even care about the consequences, the effects this will have on population growth and the entire planet, for that matter?. It is just sad that uplifting music videos, which are few and far between, are usually followed up by something that promotes sex in an extremely blatant and obvious manner. There is almost nothing positive that can be said about TV... not only does it pollute our homes with electrical smog(according to the Pleijaren), it also pollutes our minds with ideas that are even more dangerous. Like the lyrics of a song called "idiot box" go : "Let's do our mom a favor and drop a new god off a wall..." I must admit...it would be great fun to just take a baseball bat and beat the hell out of that TV set, for the benefit of mother earth, of course. take care(safety goggles) jakes | ||
Christian Moderator Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2000 |
Hi Ritak, I want to add some further information about abortion, since you have asked me to do so in a private e-mail: First: That the spirit form is entering the human embryo/fetus on the 21st day after conception is proven by the fact that the heart is starting to beat on that day. Second: Since it is not possible yet on Earth to detect all genetic or other defects within the first three weeks (scientific research has not yet made progess far enough), it is no crime to have an abortion later during pregnancy if a defect is detected at a later time, or if there are other important reasons on the parents' side. Obviously there are reasons why an abortion is a crime if executed after the first three weeks. Examples: Using abortion instead of condoms or taking the pill, etc.; not being in the mood for a child because it would interfere with a planned world trip or the career; = pure selfish reasons. But there is also a wide variety of reasons why abortion is no transgression against the spiritual laws and commandments: Rape; bursted condom; ineffective vasectomy; mother is of too young age; mother is not capable of educating the child-to-be; official, world-wide measures against overpopulation (e.g. according to FIGU's concept); defects which the fetus has acquired during pregnancy; psychic disorder of the mother; social reasons; addiction of any kind (alcohol, crack, heroin, etc.) of mother and father; parents who are not capable to secure a life of comfort and love for the child-to-be; etc. etc. Genetic and stemcell research must be promoted in order that it may become possible in the future to detect most defects in the fetus within the first 21 days. It must be the goal of mankind that only wanted children are fathered and born. And it should be taken care that only people shall have children who are capable of securing the child/children a loving childhood and youth, without famine, cruelty, addiction, depravity, sectarianism, criminality, etc. etc. Why should parents-to-be not have the duty have at least an education on parentship? Why musta teacher have an education in order the get a permission to educate children? And why is each person with a functioning sex organ deemed fit to raise children? IMO: There is no right for any adult to have children, but each child has the right to have parents (not just a mother or a father) who will love him/her during the entire life, who are leading a decent life and are capable to care for the child and fulfill his needs during the first 20 years, so the child may become an adult who is capable of bearing his own self-responsibility, be independent, has free thinking, etc. etc. Each child has the right of physical, psychic and consciousness-related soundness and health! These are just fragments of a series of thoughts and ideas, because everything leads to measures and actions that will be very much disliked by many people, religious and non-religious ones. I leave it to the readers to continue the thought processes along those lines. For those of you who understand German, I wrote a text about this topic a couple of years ago: www.figu.org/de/ueberbevoelkerung/kampfschriften/13.htm I hope this clarifies the matter a bit more. | ||
Ritak Member Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2000 |
Thank you very much Christian for your clarification. Would it be also safe to say that if the female is 1) unmarried (and completely without the support of the father) 2) has not finished her education yet 3) is not financially stable 4) has no help to raise the child 5) does not all of the prerequisites necessary for raising a child as described in the article "Parenthood And The Wish To Have A Child" is enough reason to abort and that whether the abortion occurs before or after the three weeks of gestation makes not a bit of difference? Thank you! Rita |
