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Archive through November 08, 2018

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks » Archive through November 08, 2018 « Previous Next »

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Eddieamartin
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Post Number: 859
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That word "gender" not properly understood, is the cause of confusion or, misunderstanding Billy's answers and explanations.
Salome,
Eddie

In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Patm
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Post Number: 569
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Savio,
From my understanding, you are correct the knowledge, the love and the essence of wisdom of the spirit/spirit-form is multifold more than what can be worked-out in one life time. These impulses received from the OCB storage-bank by the spirit/spirit-form are converted/transformed to the pure-creational-spirit-energetical nature of the spirit/spirit-form itself which it continuously accumulates as a massive power and energy into a creational-spirit-energetical might-block. This accumulation of energy occurs from the instant that the spirit-form animates a body and the consciousness begins to create love, knowledge and essence of wisdom which the spirit/spirit-form gathers the neutral-positive essence of these high-values, processes and develops higher (accumulates) whereby the energy of the neutral-positive essence of the love, knowledge and essence of wisdom always increases. When these high-values have reached the highest possible state of the evolution in the human being, which he/she is able to work-out and intellectually and rationally accept then the he/she can no longer exist as a human being and the overall-consciousness-block will dissolve the consciousness-block (consciousness and personality)and no further consciousness-block (consciousness and personality) is created therefore no more birth occurs because the overall-consciousness-block, created by the spirit/spirit-form, also dissolves. The energy of the overall-consciousness-block then coalesces with the spirit/spirit-form, consequently no more reincarnation will take place but rather only a pure spirit-energetical evolution into higher levels, first into the "High Council" and afterwards into the first pure spirit level, "Arahat Athersata", etc.

The impulses are not 'stored as impulses' by the spirit/spirit-form only as gathered and processed neutral positive essence of these high-values, whereby the energy created by the spirit/spirit-form from the neutral-positive essence of the love, knowledge and essence of wisdom is accumulated, The impulses from the OCB storage bank are not stored by the spirit/spirit-form as impulses like they are in the various storage-banks and subconscious memory.

Again... this is my understanding.

Salome
PatM
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Tat_tvam_asi
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Post Number: 733
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Pat,

Yes, this is the very modus mentioned in my initial summary *) and considered in the follow-up discussions.
But per se it leaves the question unanswered how we should understand Billy’s answers given a year later (Savio’s question).**)

My thoughts ***) tried to combine the answers given:
But Billy would know best how we should understand his answers.

Salome,

Bill

*)
Post 726: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/15871.html#POST84057
Post 728: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/46.html#POST84070

**)
Re. Savio’s question and a similar question asked in 2015:
Post 727: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/46.html#POST84072

***)
Gender selection may depend on both – the genetics and the personality:
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/46.html#POST84074
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Patm
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Post Number: 570
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Billy explained it as we get the chromosomes genetically during procreation however they are not activated until later, 8-12 weeks after procreation the new consciousness actually determines which chromosomes are activated, these are then activated by the spirit-form's energy.
-this is my understanding.
Salome
PatM
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Patm
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Post Number: 571
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One correction to my last post... It is the personality that determines the chromosomes that are activated not the consciousness as I incorrectly wrote.
...again just my understanding...
Salome
PatM
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Tat_tvam_asi
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Post Number: 735
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Pat,

Savio’s interjection may be better understood if we view the ratio of sperm selection vs. the gender of IVF babies:
For several decades sperm sorting via centrifugation (separating the “heavier” X sperm from the “lighter“ Y sperm) has been practiced.
Overall success rate in getting the desired gender:
- Without PGD *) – for girls ca. 75 % - for boys ca. 78-85 %
- With PGD - ca. 98 – 99,9 %

So it would appear that the genetic setup at the time the female egg is fertilized does determine the gender.

At that time (fertilization of the female egg) the “newly programmed personality” is not yet allocated to the embryo.
It "comes alive" after the spirit form animates the embryo on day 21.

Thus (esp considering the high gender success rate via PGD *) - if we allow for the "newly programmed personality" to determine the gender as well - it would make sense that it (“new personality”) is attracted to a genetically “matching” chromosome pair on day 21.

As mentioned this is my “hypothesis”.
Billy would know best how we should understand the answers he gave to this topic.

Salome,

Bill

-------------------------------------

*)
PGD = (in Vitro Fertilization with) “Pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis”
(the very young embryo is analysed on the third day after fertilization to make sure the chromosome-pair is the one needed for the desired gender)
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Kenneth
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Post Number: 809
Registered: 04-2013
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patm,

Very interesting information about chromosomes and the personality. Don’t think that Earth doctors and scientists have grasped the concept that the new personality determines which chromosomes that are activated in the embryo during the 8 – 12 week period? It’s understood that after 8 – 12 weeks, the term fetus is used until birth.

Apparently our medical science believes that the sex of a baby is determined by Mom and Dad’s chromosomes; it seems that most believe that the sex of a baby is predetermined by the father’s genetics, which appears to be only a partial or an incomplete understanding according to the teaching; yet other doctors say that both partners have some role in determining the sex of the offspring?

To my knowledge, the spirit and incoming personality appears not to enter into their equation of understanding?

Kenneth
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Learnmore12
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Post Number: 103
Registered: 05-2014
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2017 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kenneth, the reason why medical personnel don't know about the determining of sex of the developing infant is that they have not thought beyond the physical body. Everything revolves around it. Spiritual realm is fictional in this world. Scientists have not been able to prove that spirit exists, nor do they want to understand Billy's teachings. Hence the lack of knowledge.
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Kenneth
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Post Number: 811
Registered: 04-2013
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Learnmore12,

I completely agree, this is my understanding as well. So, maybe within the next 800 years from now, our medical science will hopefully get a clue?

Kenneth
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 998
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2018 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a recently asked and answered question to Billy on the number 152.955347 that he discovered for the original height of the Great Giza Pyramid in meters, Billy answers on the coefficient 152 in relation to au and the reincarnation coefficient 1.52. Since this is unlikely to make a CR anyone interested is encouraged to make a copy for posterity.

Here is my question to Billy, and below it his answer to Christian for me:
The coefficient 152, or 1.52 au, appears in some CRs. In CR 345 v 19 – 23 Ptaah says the three peaceful white, green, and blue human races live on a 1.48 au planet, and its nearby 1.51 au planet has primeval animal and plant life. I seem to recall the Plejaren home Erra is 1.52 au. Mars is 1.52 au, as was Malona which was where Mars is now before becoming the asteroid belt (We Came From the Stars, And Then From Mars pdf). The Earth is precisely one au or 152,955,347 km, and our scientists now say the habitable zone is 0.99 - 1.7 au, with a mean au of 1.34. CR au figures here range from 1.00 (Earth) -- 1.52 au giving a mean of 1.26 which is within 1% of Square Root of Phi which is 1.27, making Square Root of Phi a possible au mean for the habitable zone where life arises and human life-supporting physical matter emerges. CR examples, however, are too few to assume a universal mean au.
I recall Billy informed us that 1.52 x the years lived = the years to the next incarnation on both Erra and Earth, given proper populations. This 1.52 lifespan relates to au, but Earth is only 1.00 au, so, unless I err, I wonder why the reincarnation coefficient for Erra and Earth is the same 1.52 when their au differ by about 30%.

Yes/No Question: Is the full reincarnation coefficient 1.52955347, and why is it the same for Earth and Erra?
Answer: You cannot look upon that reincarnation coefficient as been so precise. It is just a mean ratio (when 100 years alive in the material world, 152 years in the fine-matter realm), and since Erra is nearly identical in size as Earth (and probably of similar distance to its sun), the ratio seems to be similar. Anyway, the incarnation-reincarnation ratio of each world depends on the mean distance between planet and its sun.

My reply to answer: I see. Maybe again there are just too many organic factors to take into account for it to be too exact in practice. I guess I falsely "remembered" that Erra had an au of 1.52, and that the au = the reincarnation quotient which seem, then, not to be the case. Presumably, then, Erra also has an au of 1.0 (approximately) and not 1.52, which would mean that the reincarnation factor is 1.52 times the planets au, and not that au = 1.52. That is likely where I falsely constructed the memory. Thank you.
Chris

Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Msmichelle
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Post Number: 473
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 06:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, you have a youtube page right? Put this information there for all to absorb
MsMichelle
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 999
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi MsMichelle, No I don't have a YouTube page, and I may be losing my website, which I cannot upload to anyway.
Chris

Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Patm
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Post Number: 631
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 - 07:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

@Joseph_emmanuel

from Billy's book 'Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Sorrow (Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben, Tod und Trauer)' by 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier (pages 86-89)
my translation (which may contain errors) of the article:
Whatever is preserved in Love, does not get lost with the Death (Was in Liebe bewahrt wird, geht mit dem Tod nicht verloren)
can be found at: https://creationaltruth.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1TWQ98wk3y0%3d&tabid=737&portalid=0&mid=2826

Hope this helps.
Salome
PatM
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 2855
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi PatM,

Joseph asked me to remove his post. Perhaps your response will be beneficial to him.

Thank you
Scott
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Eddieamartin
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Post Number: 946
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Joseph_immanuel. My condolences my friend.

To Patm

Thank you for sharing (and translating) this article from Billy.

My good friend phoned me this morning that her mother passed away in the hospital. We exchanged a few words of which I included a few words from the spiritual teaching.

She is not well versed in the spiritual teaching but is well aware of my being a student of it and she always respects and often seeks/listens to anything I share regarding the spiritual teaching.

This article from Billy will be well received by her and I'm sure she will give it much consideration. Billy gives insights and explanation well and far better than anything I could comprise.

Thank you again my friend.
Salome,
Eddie

In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 422
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would like to comment on a post reposted by Michael Horn from Spiritual Life In Everyday Life dating back to April, and then some years before that. It was a question by Votan to Billy.

This is part of the answer:

"If there was no reincarnation of the spirit form and the evolving overall consciousness-block which creates a new consciousness-block for each new life, Earth (or any other planet) would be populated by idiots only who had no higher knowledge and could not accomplish anything. There would be no progress, no knowledge, no wisdom etc."

I love the part where it says "populated by idiots". Doesn't feel that much different now.

Votan asked "How do we know that reincarnation really exists?"

Back in my twenties when I was questioning this, I saw the film Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. The scene where the
monster receives a billion volts in him to awaken him to life made me think about the spirit and how it animates the physical body. (It is my understanding that the body can't live without the spirit. I think this is correct and in accordance with the spiritual teaching.) I also thought about defibrillation and how people receive electric shock resuscitation to keep them from dying. I put the two together and began to think of the spirit as energy. So I looked the word up, not because I didn't know what it was, but because I wanted to know what was said about it, how it was described, and so on. What I read - that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can change form - convinced me that the spirit was energy and not a "soul" in human form with a personality. It also convinced me of the reality of reincarnation: changing form suggested that to me.

I think the "spiritual" answers we're looking for can be found in life. The principle of reincarnation, of birth and rebirth, can be seen in nature; the spirit can be seen in the seed of a flower; and each new life can be seen in the seasonal growth cycles of plant life. This is all one needs to convince oneself of the reality of reincarnation. But as humans we separate our lives from all natural life and our thinking is steered offtrack.
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 423
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Further to my last post, the other thing I wanted to say regarding reincarnation is that humans don't think of consciousness as being the driving force behind our evolution. Scientists and academics will argue that knowledge is built up from generation to generation through books and education, dismissing the whole concept of spiritual evolution. What is not understood by these learned individuals is that the power of thinking and reasoning is done through consciousness, believing instead that it is the materialistic result of their own mental efforts. Until we have a clear understanding of what consciousness is, as opposed to what mind is, most people will consider evolution from a purely materialistic perspective and cannot hope to comprehend the reality of reincarnation.
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 425
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 06:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When one dies and the spirit leaves the body and passes to the spirit realm, is there a brief moment at the onset when one is conscious of that passing? By conscious I don't mean that one is aware of what is happening, but merely in the sense of experiencing an event; a bit like seeing but not knowing. Or is it simply the case that when one dies one "shuts down", "switches off", there is nothing, just darkness.

I know that when the spirit leaves the body it has nothing to do with it or the world anymore. That is not what I'm asking. What I'm referring to, I guess, is the transition from being conscious to being unconscious. Is there a brief moment when one is aware (seeing, but not with one's eyes) of that passing (of a light, for example)?

I have always likened dying to sleeping, in that when you fall asleep, you become unconscious of your surroundings, and so in this sense you switch off: there is nothing, until the moment you start to dream; and although you are aware (seeing) of this dream, you don't know that you're experiencing it until you awaken, at which point you attribute it to yourself. The only difference is that dreaming occurs just before waking. So if I were to continue with this analogy, dreaming would be the stage where the spirit is about to reincarnate.
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 426
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that the spirit has an unconscious consciousness, but it seems to me after so many lifetimes a certain level of knowledge is accumulated and that such knowledge is to the benefit of the spirit. Going on this, I think on some level we know that life is eternal, even though as humans we must experience death. I think the shock of death is due to this "knowing" that life does not come to an end. So we try to understand why people die, why life is taken away from us, because the truth is, it isn't. Death only makes it seem as though life is taken away, which throws the question back at us. Who are we as humans that we must go through this apparent death cycle? As we evolve, the more we learn, the more we know about life and the more we are able to apply ourselves to life in such a way that we can start to live longer lives. Death will still come, but not so quickly; and the further into the future we evolve, the more we are able to put it off, to delay its coming. And it goes on in this way until death merges with life and there is only life, even if it is from Creation's perspective. The spirit is from Creation and is a part of Creation and that is what is within us which conflicts with death, because there is no death to Creation.
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Votan
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Post Number: 889
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph_emmanuel

I still find it difficult to understand as to why we are born into this fascinating and complex body and then die and re born again.

I know that Billy explained this process once before but I still questioned it.
joe
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Patm
Member

Post Number: 640
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

@Joseph_emmanuel

First of all there is a big difference between the 'Dying' and the 'Death'.
The human being experiences 'actual life' and 'dying', however the human being does not experience 'death' or the 'death-life'.
After the 'dying' of the human-body and all that is material is left behind by the spirit-form and the consciousness-block when each enter into their own realm of the other-world to fulfill the 'death-life'.

Billy explains several things in his book 'Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Sorrow (Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben, Tod und Trauer)'. What you have asked regarding the human being consciously experiencing death, Billy has written in the article 'Three important points on the Life and Death (Drei wichtige Punkte zum Leben und Tod) on pages 68-71:
This is an excerpt from that article which I have translated (may contain errors) which I think addresses your question.

"If a human being has led a negative life and all the great values of the life and the evolution have been disregarded, then no positive and controllable empirical knowledge thoughts and feelings arise at the point in time of the dying and of the coming death, which could lead to a harmonious process of dying, consequently the unpeace halts the rich harvest with the dying and death, which can carry itself even until into the state of the death throes, which however cannot necessarily be referred to as a rule, because when the state of the death throes steps into appearance, then this means, that the material consciousness itself already extends and takes on a connection with the sphere of the realm of the other world and follows which itself turns away from the purely material world and its perceptions. Therewith the human being however with the dying and in the entering into the death does not fall victim to negative and unpeaceful manifestations, but rather can do this step consciously, without anxiety and peacefully as well as in true love, he/she must consider this during the life as well as also consider the death and concern him/herself with the thought-feeling-based development of his/her evolutive, knowledge-based and essence of wisdom-developing qualities and powers, which bring great benefit to him/her and will be of continuous assistance to him/her, not only during the life but rather especially also in the dying and in the entering into the death. And only when the human being fulfills these values of the life, is he/she sufficiently prepared to encounter the death and to see in him/her the necessity and might, that guarantees the continuing and capable-of-rebirth existence of the spirit, the human-creational spirit-form."
"Hat ein Mensch ein negatives Leben geführt und all die grossen Werte des Lebens und der Evolution ausser acht gelassen, dann treten zum Zeitpunkt des Sterbens und des kommenden Todes keine positiven und kontrollierbaren Erfahrungsgedanken und Gefühle auf, die zu einem harmonischen Sterbevorgang führen könnten, folglich der Unfrieden mit dem Sterben und Tod reiche Ernte hält, was sich sogar bis in den Zustand der Agonie hineintragen kann, was aber nicht unbedingt als Regel bezeichnet werden kann, denn tritt der Agoniezustand in Erscheinung, dann bedeutet dies, dass sich das materielle Bewusstsein bereits erweitert und mit der Sphäre des Jenseitsbereiches Verbindung aufnimmt und sich folgedessen von der rein materiellen Welt und deren Wahrnehmungen abwendet. Damit der Mensch aber beim Sterben und im Eingehen in den Tod nicht negativen und unfriedlichen Erscheinungen zum Opfer fällt, sondern diesen Schritt bewusst, angstlos und friedlich sowie in wahrer Liebe tun kann, muss er während des Lebens dieses selbst sowie auch den Tod bedenken und sich mit der gedanklich-gefühlsmässigen Entwicklung seiner evolutiven, wissensmässigen und weisheitsaufbauenden Qualitäten und Kräfte befassen, die ihm nicht nur während des Lebens grossen Nutzen bringen und ihm stetige Hilfe sein werden, sondern speziell auch im Sterben und im Eingehen in den Tod. Und nur wenn der Mensch diese Werte des Lebens erfüllt, vermag er hinreichend dem Tod gewappnet entgegenzutreten und in ihm jene Notwendigkeit und Macht zu sehen, die die weitere und wiedergeburtsfähige Existenz des Geistes, der menschlichschöpferischen Geistform gewährleistet."


See also: https://creationaltruth.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=0biaVJREz9M%3d&tabid=305&portalid=0

Hope this helps
Patrick McKnight (PatM)
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 427
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I have a terrible time trying to understand the sentences. It's like a cerebral chore reading anything in English by Billy (or by whoever does the translating).

I don't think it answered my question.

To further clarify what I mean, when some people have a near death experience they claim to "see" things according to their religious beliefs and thinking, such as Jesus or a family member. Is this part of the dying process? Do we know what the material consciousness experiences during the dying process? Do we experience these visions, hallucinations, whatever they are or do we just experience light?

In the translation above, it says:

"If a human being has led a negative life and all the great values of the life and the evolution have been disregarded, then no positive and controllable empirical knowledge thoughts and feelings arise at the point in time of the dying and of the coming death, which could lead to a harmonious process of dying..."

What does this mean? "...lead to a harmonious process of dying..." implies that the opposite could otherwise occur, in which case what is it that one might experience?
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Learnmore12
Member

Post Number: 106
Registered: 05-2014
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Joseph,
This excerpt taken from Billy's teaching of death, dying and rebirth, might explain your question somewhat. Please also see the link below to get a full explanation of it Thanks.

Real death is instantaneous, which means that the CCB and the Spirit leave the body with lightspeed and in an irreversible way. Once the Spirit and the CCB have left the body they can't return, that is impossible. The Spirit does not have a desire or wish to return to the body or has any negative feelings and emotions, this is simply impossible, since the human spirit lacks a conscious-spirit consciousness and does not think about it's former body or life, there is simply no consciousness in the Spirit as of yet to generate any conscious thought.

When people see tunnels or loved ones when they are in a life threating situation like a heart attack or stroke, or anything else, then its nothing more then a lack of oxygen, or imbalance in the hormonal make-up of the brain which causes the Material consciousness and Material subconsiousness to generate tunnel effects, 'Jesus' and god experiences, just like the way people have lived and thought all their lives.

Religious people will often see helper-spirits, god, jesus, Mary, etc. There are as much near-death experiences as there are people.

In conclusion, true Death is final and very fast, the parting Spirit and CCB don't have the desire to return to the body or 'miss' the people they left behind, it is normal to up an extent to have a fear of death, Jmmanuel was one of the most 'famous' people to express this, just before his crucifixion and near-death. He stated that the 'Flesh is weak and the Spirit is strong', he meant that the Psyche, which is a part of the human body, the Physe, feels fear and horror for death, and that even a highly developed person knowing about Death will have to deal with these responses of the Psyche.

http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Death,_Afterlife_and_Rebirth

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