| Author |
Message |
   
Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 123
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:57 am: | 
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Matthew;
This idea of translation that you have in mind is indeed unintelligible to the "uncultivated reader". I say, what's the point of doing it then? If one is going to have to fumble around with dictionaries to understand what you write, one might as well go straight to the german originals.
The "cultivated person" already knows german and finds your attempts of re-creating the english language futile.
David
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Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 109
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 12:53 pm: |
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Kiwiseeker,
Do you even wit (know) what the word 'coherent' means? Translate to 'zusammenhängend' if you know any German, or just to 'compendant' or 'contexted' in English, and you worth hopefully cognow (cognise) that what you have said is without meaning. Or perhaps not.
The mound is the world, the mundane is the worldly, & a mount or a mountain is connected therewith. The mountain is the cosmos if one simplifies the Universe's 7 belts (girdles, or chains, or organ-systems) & whole entirety to the 8 trigrams of the I Ching, the 7 astrological planets & their whole, etc. The mountain, the barrow, the mound, the vironment, the world (vire-old).
Due to use, you may think of 'bravery' when you hear 'courage', but do you, after all, think of a scavenger or a baited fish when you hear 'people' (for which I recommend 'folk', 'populus' (not populace), 'tribe' (though this has the sense of 'Sippe' to it, it has the same meaning as 'thede' (whence 'Deutsch')), etc)?
'Courage', or 'coraticum', means 'the heartage', or 'the core-age'. It came to be associated with bravery by misunderstanding, first being the whole spiritual mind, the calm afforded by this, the quiet courage of a warrior, the capacity to balance the feelings & emotions, to face fear without falling out of one's 'solar centre' (conscious being, or heart), the psychic quiet of a warrior who does not break in the face of life-threatening danger, finally the calm of a king or general in battle. Even now courage does not quite just mean 'bravery', nor does it mean 'animus' (Mut). Of course, if one would (wanted) to coin a new word, one could also say 'conanimus' or 'conanimance' or something like that, but 'courage' is the traditional word. What is the 'core' of Man but the spirit/ghost?
Plusly: are you a cultivated speaker of English? No. Is that curable? Yes, and quite easily so, if one will but cease to allow degenerating culture to enslave one's psyche & intelligence.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 01:56 pm: |
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This is mostly directed at Sanjin, as something more or less to contemplate;
If the meaning of the German words is not matched in the meaning of the English words, then does it really matter after all how many people can read it and glean a superficial understanding of the matters therein? Even those native English speakers who 'learn' German for the purpose of reading Billy's work are unlikely to fully grasp the meaning of the language he uses due to their own inexact ideas about what those words are equivalent to in English.
So if the English terms do not correspond as exactly, as precisely, as they possibly can to the German, then it becomes something of a moot point -- those who read such translated materials will not fully understand what Billy originally wrote and intended, and furthermore they are unlikely to grasp the full meaning of the German as a result, even should they put forth the effort to read the originals. Why? Because for archaic and traditional terms they will have inadequate English translations decided upon.
Indeed, I would imagine that even those who speak German as their native tongue and have learned High German must still take due time and effort to consider the full meaning of the words which Billy uses, especially when one considers that each and every one is part of an overall encoding which Billy has carefully laid out.
The serious student whose will it is to truly learn from Billy's writings will obviously make the necessary efforts to comprehensively understand/grasp them, but such students are not even the majority of those who know of Billy Meier. Quite frankly, most of the people who know about Billy and who profess to study his teaching are only at the very threshold of the beginning, they are like a comatose person who has begun to open their eyes and take notice of the world around them.
Most such novices do not even have a rudimentary grasp of mathematics, nor a cultivated kenning of their native tongue, let alone such a cultivated understanding of High German. For these people, who largely are to be considered 'vulgar' or 'profane' (practically illiterate really), I can certainly see the usefulness of a modern-English translation which will obviously be lacking in exactness, but which would make some of the simpler concepts available to the common-person to consider and start to grasp.
Ultimately, to thoroughly understand what Billy writes about, especially with regard to spiritual and philosophical matters, one must cultivate one's understanding of both their native tongue and of High German. Without a cultivated knowledge of language, how can one hope to understand, or indeed to even express, even the simplest of notions? For instance, in a language which only has words for 1, 5, 50, 100, 1000, 10000, etc. one would find it rather hard to do math, wouldn't one?
In short, I suppose what I mean to express is that how language is used and what words mean is not something which should be treated with such a loose attitude, especially when it comes to languages which are widely spoken. English is a very widely spoken language, but as a result it has diverged dialectically -- anyone who wishes to deny this is encouraged to check out the Scots wikipedia, for instance this article about Robert Burns: http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Burns
The same thing is already happening elsewhere, even comparing the UK to the States, where colloquialisms and slang are increasingly diverging from one another as their respective usages of the English language diverge more and more. It's also happening even within a 'unified' country like the US -- compare inner-city youths' usage of language to those in the South, to those in New York, right out to the West Coast, etc.
It's hard to understand one another if the words you are using mean different things to each party involved, and this seems like a very common sense concept, yet Matthew catches an otherworldly amount of flak for his efforts to create an English equivalent of High German.
In addition to simply being a self-evidently fantastic idea, however, Matthew's cultivation of English has the potential to serve Billy's mission quite extraordinarily, since with his methods one may actually cultivate one's knowledge of English to the point that near-perfect translations of Billy's materials could be made, and thus introduced to those English speaking people who are willing to invest the time and energy in cultivating their usage of language and in studying Billy's teaching.
In fact, I think it has actually been said, either by Billy or as a comment within the contact notes, that the reason adequate translations cannot be made into English is because there is not currently a cultivated or creatively-flexible enough form of English for this to be possible. If Billy had been born in an English speaking country, perhaps he would have cultivated English himself, but as it is High German already existed and serves his purposes just fine.
Whatever the decisions are regarding the translation of Billy's books, so long as inadequate terminology is used it will ultimately hamper the ability of most English-speakers (including those who try to learn High German) to fully cognize the matters being discussed. Those who choose to search no deeper, who do not carefully consider and examine the minute details, may still draw some very good and useful ideas, insights and guidance from Billy's teaching, but they will not fully understand it and so over time it could become degraded and falsified -- not intentionally, but simply due to a lack of clarity of language.
Falsification is not, now, quite such the worry it was when Jmmanuel or Muhammad was around, but all the same, why create avenues by which such could spread if one can help it? My view is simply that, since there is already a self-weeding effect in effect in Billy's teaching/books, such that if you took, say, 100 people who knew about him, you would find that perhaps 80 perused the available online works and maybe own the 'Talmud Jmmanuel' or 'And Yet They Fly' -- another 15 will have started to collect his other books and begun learning German, and of the 5 who own the majority of his books, 2 or 3 will speak fluent German and be making a concentrated, diligent effort to study the material thoroughly.
If Billy's work is already largely passing by so many people, why not simply translate it as accurately as possible? At least then, if 'High English' took off, there would already be superb literature available to study and read -- arguably the best on the planet, and Billy's even been so kind as to throw in 'novels' about his life and a book of traditional faerie stories.
In the meantime, those who are too lazy to cultivate their kenning of the language, similarly to those who are too lazy to cultivate their understanding of mathematics, may exercise their will to ignore Matthew and his efforts -- but the ridiculous, repetitious, argumentative posts to him are simply wasting space on the boards. There are some here who do find his work valuable, and at any rate the moderators have always had the power to censor anyone's posts if they think they really don't belong.
-
Kiwiseeker, and Earthling as well;
Kiwiseeker -- your usage of English is uncultivated. If this is something you wish to rectify, I recommend investing in the dictionaries Matthew has repeatedly sourced.
Earthling -- much the same goes for you. You can make humour about being one of the unwashed mass, but that is solely your decision. If you are ignorant of the usages and history of the English language, then invest in the dictionaries Matthew has sourced. They are well worth having. Additionally, do not persist in what seems to be your assumption that Matthew is an elitist, an arrogant snob, a delusional schizophrenic, or anything of the like, etc. as such is false.
Peace;
- Gaia |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 02:19 pm: |
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Rarena, and Bortheway;
A native English speaker who is, say, 20 or 30 or 40 years old does not learn German the way a native German speaker does -- from birth. Generally speaking, people who learn foreign languages do not simply emigrate to the foreign locale and immerse them-self immediately and without any prior contact within the foreign language (perhaps a few people do, but most of them do not, certainly not those who speak English and seek to learn German to read Billy's work).
So if not from birth or through total immersion, how on earth do we native English speakers learn German? Perhaps, and somebody please correct me if I am stretching this too thin, but I think that just maybe we learn German by correlating German words to what we think their English equivalents are. For instance, until I am very fluent in German, I will likely continue to formulate what I want to say in English and then think over which German words correspond to the English terms I want to express.
Therefore, if one does not have a clear and comprehensive kenning of the English language, then how can one possibly hope to develop a clear and comprehensive kenning of what the German means? Likewise, if one does not cultivate their understanding of their own native tongue, how can they possibly hope to make adequate translations of something written in a foreign language?
One might get lucky and translate the majority of terminology more-or-less correctly, but how can one know if one has chosen the right terms if one does not even put forth the effort to study one's own language?
I think my point should be fairly clear. English is such a widely-spoken language that unless one really thinks we can do away with it completely and convert the entire English-speaking population of the globe to speaking German, it's going to become more and more of a necessity for there to be a universal 'High English' simply because then one could communicate with any of the other English-speakers from around the world so long as they have put forth a bit of effort to learn the standard or high English, which would not be shaped and changed by local culture in the way which dialects are.
Think on it.
Peace;
- Gaia |
Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 110
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 04:08 pm: |
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Borthwey,
What you call 'fumbling' with dictionaries, in fact research of the language towards linguageal self-cultivation, is one way of learning, and a good one. But I will produce a book or guideline to the High English language at some time, perhaps online initially, for the sake of ease and teaching.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Marksmanr
Member
Post Number: 115
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 07:01 pm: |
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'Gemüt' is the spiritual counterpart for the material psyche.
The meaning of 'courage' "the heart as the source of emotion" unfortunately is obsolete, so maybe if it wasn't obsolete then 'courage' could translated from 'Gemüt'. Almost everyone would not attach that meaning to 'courage', so a footnote would have to be used which would defeat the purpose of trying to translate 'Gemüt' anyway.
Reece Stiller
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:32 pm: |
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Regarding this issue over translations, I think the energy is somewhat misdirected here. If there are people who better know and understand the correct words for the proper translation then my suggestion is for them to cooperate with the translation team in Switzerland, either through email, or by putting their money where their mouth is and going over to lend a hand. I'm sure that if the will to do this is present it can be accomplished without too great an expense.
And frankly, so what if it costs one to do this? Hasn't Billy, and haven't others, demonstrated their willingness to take action that reflects their principles and convictions? While we're all glad to know that there are keen observers of the human condition, who are also voluntary custodians of the language, willing to stand for the perfection of English, etc., somehow the actual spirit of what the teaching is seems to be lost, time and again, in favor of these lovely intellectual dissertations and scoldings, administered by people who seem to value "intellect" above all things, above all things consciousness related.
Participating in the actual translation process will produce a more significant affect than lecturing us here over some of the subtleties, which may or may not actually be correct anyway. And if the need to set oneself up as an abused, misunderstood party isn't a dominant underlying motivation, then I say get on with something more than linguistic tap dancing which, to a good degree, is actually taking us off course, deflecting us from exposing ourselves, our consciousness, to the teaching of the Goblet in this approved form for English readers.
When Mariann says that Billy told them what the meaning of the words were and that they were neither courage nor genius, for some silly reason I'm willing to accept that. Having sat in on one two-hour translation session with Mariann, Willem and Billy, and watching the painstaking consideration given to each word, including Billy's thumbing through his every ready dictionaries, I am of the opinion that there is nothing frivolous in their decision to provide this translation, imperfect as it still may be.
The teaching in the Goblet is something that we not only study and learn but...live. And I always get the feeling that we're being talked down to by people who spend their time not so much in the world of the living, in the field of action where the application of the principles and teaching are meant to happen, but mainly in their heads, in their theories, propelled by their grievances against society, family, whatever. |
Marksmanr
Member
Post Number: 116
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:23 am: |
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Matthew, it's good that you want to be helpful, but you have to be practical. Although your idea of High English is theoretically possible, it isn't really practically possible or necessary. U.K. English is the most suitable form of English for meaning and practicality.
You do not have to change the world so drastically (attempting to create and spread "High English"), you can relax and not try to do something out of your limits. You are knowledgeable in language, so if you want to translate FIGU material into U.K. English, then it would be very appreciated and practical for you to do.
You can leave it up to the responsibility of each human being to learn High German themselves if they want to understand the material/texts as best as possible.
Surely you understand?
Reece Stiller
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 1460
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:50 am: |
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Hi All....
I would fully agree with what Mariann stated concerning Matthew's posting.
Gemuet and Mut are TWO Different words/things/definitions/meanings!
Mariann is correct stating: 'the spiritual part of the material psyche, namely
the Gemuet.' [Which is clearly stated in the Teachings....]
Mut = Courage, bravery....etc...; but is in NO WAY aligned with the definition
to Gemuet!
I think Matthew is correlating (ge)muet with Mut!! Which is unheard of!
Edward. |
Creational
Member
Post Number: 340
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 02:23 am: |
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Dear Gaia,
You wrote:
“The serious student whose will it is to truly learn from Billy's writings will obviously make the necessary efforts to comprehensively understand/grasp them, but such students are not even the majority of those who know of Billy Meier. Quite frankly, most of the people who know about Billy and who profess to study his teaching are only at the very threshold of the beginning, they are like a comatose person who has begun to open their eyes and take notice of the world around them.”
You know, quite contrary to your implication above, I think the majority of people here who eventually had found Billy through self inquiry, self research and self education in order to find the real Truth, deserve more respect than what you have offered them. It seems as if you think that you guys are the only ones who really understand the teachings.
With that being said, I do respect and mostly enjoy the knowledge both you and Mathew could possibly offer this forum and frankly I personally take pleasure in reading both your interesting versions of reality. However, I feel the need to remind you both that there is a profound difference between knowledge and wisdom. Remember that the advanced Pleyaren have a king of wisdom as their god rather than one of their scientists or the most knowledgeable ones as one.
Time and again Billy emphasizes on accumulation of both knowledge and wisdom while putting more emphasis on the latter yet he warns us about arrogance as a possible side effect of the former; knowledge without wisdom may lead humanity to degeneration.
No matter how sharp or spiritually advanced we consider ourselves to be, as a spiritual unit in this point in time; we are truly all in the same evolutionary boat with little vibrational differences. Let us then act in unity as different notes of a perfect symphony.
Love, peace and wisdom,
Zhila,
Thank you Billy.
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 08:35 am: |
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I was asked to post this to the forum:
Dear Forum writers,
It is astonishing how you deal with the translation of the "Goblet of Truth". To make it clear: The German version - the original - is the important one and not the English version! Only the German version is coded. The code starts acting as soon as you read or hear the sentences. It is impulse-based (or - better - impulsation-based) and effects everything in the human being that functions on impulses/impulsations - and that is each cell and therefore also the genes. It is an unconscious process and without coercion.
The Plejaren will of course take Billy's German original for their translations. And, as Ptaah said, their language is as good as German, so they have a one to one translation. According to their language scientists no other language on Earth is as precise as German to give the spiritual teaching.
Concerning the actual translation: It was not only Billy's idea to have Willem and I checking the translation of the translator - an Englishman, nota bene - but also Ptaah's. They obviously thought that we could do it. We spend sometimes weeks on one chapter - 6 to 7 hours a day! -, depending on the amount of sentences, because it is so difficult to find the right English expressions. Without a relatively good knowledge of the spiritual teaching it would be impossible to do it, and even with that knowledge we quite often have to ask Billy what he really meant by saying certain things. And while doing so, we learned from Billy that the synonym-books and dictionaries are more or less useless because their explanations are not always correct. Of course, there are sometimes 18 English words for one German word, but there is often not a single one that really corresponds to the German meaning in the "Kelch" - and then we start searching, sometimes for more than half an hour for one expression! I must admit, without Billy's help we would mostly not be successful. His German vocabulary - and how he uses it - is beyond comparison and also his English vocabulary is impressive.
Please don't argue any more about the translation. If you find a real mistake, let us know, but stop comparing with false teachings and behaving like fanatics. If Billy read your thoughts he would shake his head.
Consider the first recommendation (not command, it's only a recommendation, command is wrong!). If you make this translation and the English language in general another might, then you already deprive Creation of its might.
As you all seem to know German, why don't you read the German version and evolve thereby your consciousness instead of fighting with and against each other? In the "Kelch der Wahrheit" there it says that you shall not do so.
Salome
Mariann |
Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 112
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:20 am: |
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Many correct usages of currently uncorrectly abused words are 'obsolete' because they fell out of nearly all but poetic, literary, and philosophical use by the early 20th century.
Mut = animus (& 'mood' means 'Stimmung', mode, modulation)
Gemüt = courage (--in my speech, because it fits and there is no point in there being several synonyms for so crass a concept as 'keenness', 'bravery' or 'heroism', which, along with other simplistic ideas, have gobbled up the semantics of more refined words in the past centuries.) (Also, Gemüt did not originally mean the heart as the seat of emotion, but the spiritual 'heart' as the seat of calm, while 'pectus' (breast) or just 'heart' meant the former.)
But consider that there are many dialects, including some which, like Scotch & some southern USA English, due to their archaism, express concepts more aptly than popular, marketed, mass-mind-control (mass psychic violational) 'English'.
I am simply using English not as it gets used commonly, but as I understand it and will to use it, and as my understanding and size of conscious being (Bewusstseinsgröße) expand, this worth only have ever more positive effects on me and my fellow men. For me to use English any other way wirthe be dishonest & debauched, and wirthe certainly (consciently) not constitute communication except of a demeaning and unbeloring (unindoctrinating) nature.
This is also at least partly how English is got poetically used in the past, and before some blear-borderd time in the modern era, it was regular to invent new words from old, revive archaic words, and so forth, and such happens, though in a much more banal way, even in the most spoiled slangs of today.
'Einen Charakter zu besitzen bedeutet nichts anderes, als genau nach der bewusstseinsmässigen Richtlinie, deren Entwicklung und Fortkommen zu leben, daran festzuhalten und sie zu verfechten.'
'To possess a character means nothing else than to live exactly by the conscious-beingly directive line (guideline), its development & its advancement, to keep fast thereon and to fight for it.' - Billy, 'die Psyche', p. 47
I am merely, ergo, living according to my character, instead of submitting to the grinding gears of an increasingly rusty machinery. I used to think it right to 'blend in' and overidentify with others, but I was wrong. Progress & help only happen when one sets up a strong immune system of the conscious being against outside diseases.
& the modern, 'Americanised' (though it oddly disreguards the sort of language which 19th and first-half-of-the-20th century American writers usually spoke and wrote) English is a disease of the psyche if there ever was one.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Redbeard
Member
Post Number: 113
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:25 am: |
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Thankyou Micheal and Zhila,
The wisdom of knowledge is often mentioned by Jmmanuel in the Talmud,
Chapter 10
47. "The path of truth is long and the wisdom of knowledge will only penetrate slowly.
Billy and Quetzal, Contact Report 228
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_228
That also applies to the Earth humans, because if all knowledge was simply tossed out to them like feed and they fed on it thoughtlessly and without processing, then it would bring no proper success, but rather only a certain school-knowledge, while the undigested remainder would be secreted again as excrement.
In other words: Everything undigested would be forgotten, and would therefore be completely useless.
But if a certain minimal material is offered, which can be thoroughly further worked on and success can be progressively achieved, then the knowledge persists in a firm form and can, at any time, be transformed into wisdom and expanded.
Knowledge, Wisdom and Peace to all,
Matt Beattie
Matthew Beattie
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Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:30 am: |
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'The Plejaren will of course take Billy's German original for their translations. And, as Ptaah said, their language is as good as German, so they have a one to one translation.'
In fact, Ptaah has said that their language is better than German, and that only their home languages regive the correct meaning in all cases, whereas German doth so in most cases.
'Commandment' = Befehl (eigentlich Befehlung), which is why I would use 'bode', 'bidding', or 'legation' or 'law' (lex). These are what become human laws, what we read with our reason.
I also spend much of my free time meditating over language and developing my understandledge (understanding, Verstand). It only takes such effort because of neglect on the behalf of others. We are involved in the same battle (against the animalisation and unreasonablisation of Man).
I do read the German versions of Billy's works and they are of unmatchable value among terrestrial books, though the cultivation of English, it being the most used language upon Earth, must come from somewhere, and just as translations from the Greek philosophers' scripts cultivated Latin, and those of the Latin Bible cultivated German, so must Billy's teachings and his laying there of concepts be the building plot for the English language's semantic re-integration.
I do not put English nor any other system or manly craft beside the Creation as a might, though it be a power, a might of Man, thus of me, a tool with which I may carve the way to my destiny of Godhood, as all men are Gods, there is no God but Man. Man is only a might pseudo-beside Creation in the ghost, and Ghost is Creation itself. But Man is possibilitarily the mightiest of mattered wights, the light-bearer, possessing reason & cleverness unsurpassed by any other. It is only the weak man who calls on a god, who will and worth become an animal in time. Men who do not think of themselves as gods soon lose self-responsibility, most free will, power, intelligence, and terminally humanity itself.
'1. Du sollst keine anderen Mächte und keine Götter, Götzen und Heilige neben der Schöpfung haben.'
This remains uninfracted while one knows one's powers to be manifestations of the one force, the LOGOS, the primordial force of Creation.
One does not worship these powers, but reveres the one Creation through the awesome cognition of its fixtures and logic. No man may cognow the truth without the ungetting (Empfindung) of awe.
---
I would be glad to help with the translation directly and contribute mine understanding thereto, but to travel such a distance requires a lot of money, and I wirthe need help getting there.
---
Redbeard,
Yes, and that's why Billy recommends that students read only small portions at a time of the teaching, each day, preferably in the earlier morning (I would recommend dividing the daylight into 6 aequal parts and studying for 60 minutes or less in the 3rd part, corresponding to Taurus, the spleenage (spleen and pancreas, etc), mindfulness (Aufmerksamkeit), and so forth).
However, one cannot have wisdom without witledge (knowledge) first.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Karrol
Member
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:30 am: |
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Hello Everyone,
As a relatively new member of the forum, I would like to support Marianne and her comments about all of the arguing about the translation. Because of some of the ridiculous conversations I have read on the forum I hesitated in the beginning to become involved. At first I just read Billy's question and answer because there seemed to be so little value in reading the forum. That was my first impression of the forum. I hope you appreciate and really consider the feedback. BTW-I can always count on Michael Horn to bring some sanity back into the conversation. Thank you Michael for keeping it real.
Salome,
Karrol Steeves |
Markcampbell
Member
Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:13 pm: |
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stated in absolute brevity :
"Sociopathic behaviour" |
Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 114
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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Karrol,
There is a big difference between sanity of mind & psyche and normalcy, commonality, popularity, etc. To a peasant living even in mediaeval France or China, much of what today is in the 'western' societies 'normal' culturally, morally & pseudo-spiritually wirthe be seen as signs of enslavement, debauch, ruin, dishonour, disgrace, annihilation, failure, etc. To an extraterrestrial from a highly developed planet, such as the Zeta Reticuli, one can imagine how modern Earth-Man's many unsanities appear.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 115
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 07:52 pm: |
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'Des Schicksals Schmied ist der Mensch selbst.'
'The weird-smith (destiny's forger) is Man himself.'
- Billy, 'die Psyche'
'Der Name Gott...bezeichnet also einen Menschen, der seine geistiges sowie bewusstes Denken und Können auf einen gewissen hohen Stand gebracht hat. Folglich ist also jeder Mensch GOTT SELBST, wenn er dies bewusstseinsmässig zu erfassen vermag, und wenn er über die Irrlehren der Religionen hinausdenkt.'
'The name 'god'...thus denotes a man who has brought his spiritual and conscious thinking & cunning (ability) uponto a certain high standing. Thus consequently is Man GOD HIMSELF, if he is in power to conscious-beinglily apprehend this, and if he thinks beyond over the wrong doctrines of the religions.’
- Billy, 'die Psyche' |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 467
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 08:42 am: |
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Line 201 English translation of the Goblet of Truth talks about not getting the whole truth down correctly.
201: All truth is in Creation and in its laws and recommendations, therefore do not create your own and false truth within yourselves, otherwise you are turning yourselves into people without equitableness unfair/irresponsible ones/inequitable ones and into doubters.
The lines that follow are worth heeding as well... |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 10:25 am: |
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And now for the not so brief version.
I think it's time that we seriously consider whether this forum is indeed going to be allowed to be hijacked, taken down very diversionary paths, such as the completely self-indulgent, time-wasting nonsense about High English that only effectively serves the goals of the most deliberate disinformation specialists, whether so intended or not.
Despite the seemingly oh so earnest pleadings by Matthew, who arrives as usual after some absence, loaded for bear with his next derailing machinations that are really best suited for the other sites on which he exercises his linguistic and imaginative interests, it's time, in my opinion, to say goodbye. At least goodbye to these tactics that only serve, at best, to talk around the purpose of this material, this study, this teaching. As such they are also completely disrespectful and insulting to the sincere students here; infantile attention-seeking powered by adult IQ, a really bad combination.
We have received the direct suggestion from one member of the actual translation team, who spends hours and hours of her life with the teacher, the author/editor, himself. Her suggestion is to study the available English translation of the teaching, if that's what we are really interested in. Should there really be some confusion as to what a word means, should it be a matter of being dangerously misdirected by an English word, the question can be presented to Mariann and will be promptly addressed, I'm certain.
Disinformation usually has the attribute of the truth being wrapped in a lie. One effect of the lie we are dealing with, one lie that we may be telling ourselves, is that these exercises in mental masturbation by Matthew are somehow in need of toleration in order for us to enhance our understanding of the essence of the teaching of truth. They aren't. He isn't. And the same is and/or will be true for and about anyone who, consciously or not, obfuscates the purpose here, however cleverly or clumsily it doesn't matter. We have enough obstacles to our learning, enough demands in our lives and drains on our time to have to effectively babysit, coddle and accommodate those who, despite their eloquent and even accurate tirades against all that is wrong and false with this world, are merely dabblers here, talented at word smithing surely but clearly in need of some other outlets for their frustrated energies, as well as perhaps some self-realization about their own unresolved issues and underlying motivations. I suggest that this isn't the place for it. |
Badr
Moderator
Post Number: 502
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 02:31 pm: |
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Thanks Michael for the nice post and to the point.
You are right this discussion has gone too far, everyone managed to say what they want, and so we will leave it at that. If there are anymore suggestions regarding this take it up with the translation team.
Peace |
Syn
Member
Post Number: 218
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 06:09 pm: |
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bout time, i was about to say drop this bs and get back to what its about.
They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then the truth as the authority
-Gerald Massey
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Bianca
Member
Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 06:17 am: |
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HOW difficult and WHY is it not possible to keep this discussion board solely for those who are truly searching? bar everyone who is rubbishing polluting and obfuscating this space!
WHY cant this board be different to other internet d/b? why allow the nonsense snick in at the beginning? WHY not nip it in the bud, as Billy says? There are some 4000 people, aprox., on this planet who know about Billy's teaching (probably more now?) so let this place be sacred to those who want to evolve with the only truth there is. PLEASE!!!
B. |
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