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Archive through May 02, 2010

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Sanjin
Member

Post Number: 134
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not completely happy with the or either (pun intended), but viz. is quite good. Although, I'm not sure if it is exactly the same as resp.

Are people who read Eduard's works happy to learn something new?
36.The human is another person, when, surrounded by the rays of the heavenly creational sunrise, the pure delight of awakening nature streams through him.
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Smukhuti
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Post Number: 311
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Norm,

I have also wondered that previously. Some reasons that I could think of since then regarding not making a greater effort in translation are:
  1. Inadequacy of non-German languages: Of course very good (but still not perfect) effort can be put up in translation in other languages, but making an effort is responsibility of earth people of the respective language groups. It is not about the Plejaren spoon feeding us with notes and translation. Then there would also not be any need of them transmitting the notes to Billy. They can simply transfer the written and ready transcripts to Billy.
  2. Promotion of the German language: According to the Plejaren, German is the only language with limitless possibility for improvement. IMO, they are thinking long term and encouraging us to learn a language that will one day can be used for cosmic communication with other E.T. species and would be at par with the language development of these E.T. species.
  3. Avoiding many subtle variations of the truth: Getting accurate translation in English has ben so far difficult, imagine a dozen more language. FIGU, IMO is careful to avoid a situation where, say, 100 years down the line 12 languages translate a sentence in 12 different ways.
  4. Finding good translators: The translators that FIGU is looking for are not only well versed in German and the non-German translation candidate language, but also free from religious, new-age, or any kind of delusion, neither too much rooted into conventional science or philosophy that a translation from neutral perspective is impossible. How many such people are available?
  5. Avoid shock: Now that BEAM is alive, imagine that over a 2-3 years, the Plejaren manage to translate all the material into each and every earth language. What a shock that would cause in the mind of the earth people. Among them, majority would simple not able to accept it and live in denial and confusion of the consciousness. Rest would misunderstand and misinterpret it and start yet another cult religion elevating BEAM to "second coming of Christ" or whatever. Others would become enemy of BEAM and threaten the mission.
  6. Failed effort: The Plejaren did once tried to translate the German material into other languages, but their computer and language experts gave up. Here of course I presume that the Plejaren were aiming for point blank accurate translation otherwise it is inconceivable that they cannot do better than us.

Salome.
Suv
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Eric
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 06:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Smukhuti:

These was a disclaimer that appeared 2-3 weeks ago on FIGU Canada site, but is not there anymore regarding translation. There was a transcription from conversation of Feb 3, 2010 between Ptaah and Billy saying basically there there will be no further translation from FIGU after Kelch der Warheit, as this "nerve-racking" translation effort was the final proof that adequate translation is impossible, with some tough words on the current English language. What you are saying Smukhuti is in line with this disclaimer.
FIGU now spends their effort to document as much spiritual information as possible for the future, it is clear from anyone that has followed the case for some time. It is up to us to do this effort, as we see it on this trend.
Salome. Eric

...I wonder if someone can find this info and put it back on line? ...Dyson would be delighted to see this one...
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 1121
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Eric (& ors.)

I've seen it - and quite a bit more not yet published. Of course FIGU is in close touch with Vivienne and me about this topic, but I prefer to err on the side of caution about sharing the things they tell us privately, knowing that there are probably good reasons why FIGU acts as it does (even though I don't always know what they are) and that - if it is important enough - FIGU will let everybody know what's going on, with their latest views about translations, eventually. Suffice it to say that there is another new plan, which is quite different, to try to deal with the worsening problem of rogue (incompetent) translators.

As an aside: it's interesting to me that FIGU Japan is praised for taking the initiative to raise the funds to have entire books professionally translated, but the Swiss group has no way of checking them for accuracy, etc., and that never seems to be raised as an issue, let alone a potential problem. Would the adversarial forces in Japan be significantly less vigorous there than in the West? I think not.

Suv, with the exception of number 4, I tend to somewhat agree with you, but I think you missed the most important factor, namely, the NEED to strive hard in ORDER to achieve real knowledge.

I can't stress this enough. It relates to the theme in my recent post: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/1159.html#POST49022

" ... denn würde ihnen alles Wissen einfach wie Futter hingeschmissen und von ihnen gedankenlos und ohne Verarbeitung gefuttert, dann würde es keinen eigentlichen Erfolg bringen, sondern nur ein gewisses Schulwissen, während der Rest unverdaut als Exkremente wieder ausgeschieden würde."

( ... if all knowledge was simply tossed out to them like feed and they fed on it thoughtlessly and without processing, then it would bring no proper success, but rather only a certain school-knowledge, while the undigested remainder would be secreted again as excrement.)

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv5p468.htm

Serious problems associated with FIGU translations are now being addressed, but remain to be resolved.

Salome,
Dyson
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Msmichelle
Member

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who are these rouge incompetent translators??? I only know of English translations from Dyson and Benjamin....however they are classified as unauthorized, unoffical translations. So maybe I'm missing something???... this section is often very heated and it easy to get lost in translations.
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 1123
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Msmichelle,

Yes, evidently you're missing something. :-)

There are a lot more translators than two who have published stuff.

And all translations done by Vivienne and/or me (except http://theyfly.com/God_Delusion.html which is our first "official" one) are "authorised" because Billy gave us his personal permission to translate anything we want of his writings, but not "official", because those must come from, and be checked by, FIGU HQ.

I shouldn't have used the word "rogue", which I merely meant as "separate from the herd". Sorry. ("Rouge" is "red or pink makeup to add colour to the cheeks; blusher.")

By "incompetent", I mean "unskilled, lacking normally expected degree of ability."

Salome,
Dyson
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Gaiawingz
Member

Post Number: 109
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson;

Maybe you meant a maverick? ^.^

Peace;

- Gaia
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 1138
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IMPORTANT CORRECTIONS!

On April 13th, over on the "Learning German" thread, http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/5722.html#POST49235 , Vivienne and I erroneously accepted personal responsibility for a wrong translation, which - upon belated investigation on my part - was the result of us faithfully (there's that word!) scanning and reproducing an official FIGU translation, taken from the FIGU booklet, LEBEN IM GEISTIGEN UND PHYSISCHEN / LIFE IN THE SPIRITUAL AND PHYSICAL.

http://shop.figu.org/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=LEBEN+IM+GEISTIGEN+UND+PHYSISC&x=0&y=0

"Unbewusst" (unconscious) was wrongly translated as "subconscious".

It's the seventh sentence down from the top of the page:

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/kodex.htm

http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/kodex.htm

Robyn's original correction, seen by going to the aforementioned forum posting, stands, but the claims about the source of the translation were errors of fact.

I hope some FIGU official sees this public notice of a significant official translation error on their part and takes official steps to have it eventually officially corrected.

(Our scanner just blew up, or I would have provided you with the visual evidence of the mistake. Sorry.)

Salome,
Dyson
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Sanjin
Member

Post Number: 135
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson.

On that same note, I'd like to also report an error in the translation of OM - Kanon 49.

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/OM.K49.htm

Since I studied the subconscious mind before studying this material, this had me quite confused for a while because I thought that I would have to do things unconsciously to access the potentials from the subconsciousness. Here is a quick correction:

47. Everything that the human inherits, everything that he brings with him through the billion-fold existence of the past, everything that he enjoyed, knew, read, learnt or experienced in this or in past lives, lies hidden in his subconsciousness.
48. Why, therefore, does he not master the technique of concentration, and why does he not order his subconsciousness and make full use of all his knowledge and ability?
49. The yearning after all his knowledge and ability, after the experience and after the wisdom, lies yet hidden deep in him.
50. He must only recognise and accept the truth in order, therefore, to acknowledge and utilize it.

Please don't take it as an impugnation, but merely as an attempt to help correcting mistakes, so that lass confusions and misinterpretations are prevalent.

Salome,
Sanjin
Love makes the world go round.
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Sanjin,

We're always happy to have mistakes like that corrected, of course, and naturally we apologise for the confusion. (Michael & James, kindly take note.)

Vivienne said that she thinks we must have taken the aforementioned booklet as an example, given that - in those early days - we were not really aware of how FIGU wanted some of these terms translated. (We still aren't.)

Vivienne also wanted me to say that all of these translations of ours will be gone through with a fine-toothed comb in a couple months, and revised/corrected versions will eventually replace these early efforts. As I mentioned previously, FIGU tells us that it is planning on implementing standard procedures for trying to control translations of their texts, so these revised translations of ours should become "official" ones on the Swiss website, or so I'm led to believe.

Thanks,
Dyson
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Sanjin
Member

Post Number: 136
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're welcome. It may have actually been better for me to stumble on the mistakes, since it made the material that much more imbued through experience.
Love makes the world go round.
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Sanjin
Member

Post Number: 137
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone.

While rechecking the article "Glaube und Gott", "Faith (Belief) and God)", I stumble across a sentence which was giving me trouble. I wan't sure if I understood it correctly so I asked Mariann Mondria Uehlinger for advice. She replied that the sentence seemed unlogical to her and that she would ask Billy about it.

The next day she sent me an e-mail stating that , according to Billy, the original text had a missing word.

The original sentence is the following:

Und Gott, so glaubt der Gläubige, verhindere, dass er im Leben keine Sicherheit habe und sich nicht wie eine treibende Feder im Wind fühle.

The original translation is the following:

And God, so the believer believes, would prevent that one would have security in life and that he wouldn’t feel like a propelling feather in the wind.

Basically, the sentence should state that god would prevent that one would have no security in life. It could have been Billy's mistake. He looks very much like a human to me.

Mariann also corrected propelling to drifting. Here is the corrected sentence:

And God, so the believer believes, would prevent that he would have no security in life and that he wouldn’t feel like a drifting feather in the wind.


Mariann's e-mail:

Habe heute nachmittag Billy gefragt weil mir der Satz wie bereits vorgängig geschrieben unlogisch schien. Billy bestätigte, dass ein Wort fehle, nämlich "keine". Der Satz heisst dann demzufolge richtig:
Und Gott, so glaubt der Gläubige, verhindere, dass er im Leben keine Sicherheit habe und sich nicht wie eine treibende Feder im Wind fühle.
And God, so the believer believes, would prevent that he (the believer) would have no security in life and that he wouldn’t feel like a drifting feather in the wind.

Bezüglich "drifting" bin ich mir nicht sicher, aber propelling ist meines Erachtens falsch, das hört sich eher wie Propeller an, oder wie drehende Rotorblätter eines Helikopters. Würdest du diese Korrekturen bitte im Forum veröffentlichen, so dass diejenige Person, die das übersetzt hat, die entsprechenden Korrekturen anbringt? Wäre lieb von Dir.

Salome
Mariann


Here is the article Faith (Belief) and God
Love makes the world go round.
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Borthwey
Member

Post Number: 170
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 03:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would translate it like this:

And God, so the believer believes, would prevent him from having no security in life, and from feeling like a feather carried in the wind.
David
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Bennyray37
Member

Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Borthwey,

How sure are you of the second part of your suggested translation? I ask this because it seems to be the exact opposite in meaning of what was given by Mariann.

Mariann's revised sentence, in saying that God prevents the believer from having no security in life and that God prevents the believer that he (the believer) would not feel like a drifting feather in the wind, basically means that God makes the believer feel like he has security and makes the believer feel like he is a drifting feather in the wind. However, the second part of your sentence, which says that the believer would be prevented “from feeling like a feather carried in the wind,” basically means that God makes the believer feel like his is not a drifting feather in the wind.

Did you mean to include the word “not,” so that the last part of the sentence would read “and from not feeling like a feather carried in the wind,” or do you conclude that the sentence is basically saying that God makes a believer feel that his is not a feather carried in the wind?

Just curious.

--
Benjamin Stevens
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Borthwey
Member

Post Number: 171
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Benjamin

Yes, I was concluding that God makes the believer feel that he is not a feather carried by the wind.

To be like a drifting feather in the wind = to be aimless, and totally subject to unforeseen circumstances. This is what is prevented by the security one gets from believing in God.

I can't see how it would make sense that one would desire to be like a feather carried by the wind, at least not in this context.

It could be linked with being comfortable amidst turmoil, by just being in the moment without judgments... but if there is no judgment there is no hope for God either. That´s more of an eastern philosophy type approach.

The use of double negatives can be ambiguous, regardless of the language. I just followed what seems to make more sense.

David
I am a terrestrial
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Bennyray37
Member

Post Number: 36
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi David,

Well, there is another way to look at being a feather in the wind. The artist of a song entitled “Feather on the Wind” wrote the following:

“Imagine a feather being tossed about, traveling along on the winds. Often in my own life I have felt like the feather, floating along without direction and guidance, but if I look closely I can see that every moment has moved to this point, and if just one thing had been different, there might not have been this music, this beautiful gift in my life. I am the "Feather On The Wind", always sustained and guided by an invisible hand, and though tossed about, I am never alone.”

I was looking at the feather in the wind in the way that the author explains it in the last sentence above.

A feather moving along in a gust of wind doesn’t have to do anything itself in order to go about its way. It simply rests and allows the wind to carry it wherever the wind so desires. The wind is seen as an invisible hand that carries the feather, which relies fully on the wind’s strength and not any strength of its own.

Meier often teaches that the believer who trusts in God does this so that he doesn’t have to rely on his own effort to make it through life; rather, he can rely on God to guide him and direct him each step of the way. I was under the impression that Meier was trying to say that the believer feels like he IS a feather being carried by the wind because the believer simply rests and allows the wind (the invisible force representing God) to carry him through life so that he doesn’t have to make it through life by himself.

--
Benjamin Stevens
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Borthwey
Member

Post Number: 172
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Benjamin,

I see your point. It justifies at least why you were ready to interpret the sentence the way you did (the author does make feeling like a feather in the wind seem compelling :-)...).

However I think that if Meier meant what you are saying, he would have specifically written:

“And God, so the believer believes, would prevent him from having no security in life, and from not feeling that he is being carried by a superior power or intention”

Being like a feather drifting in the wind, by itself, is not comparable with security in life, but with randomness. As your author puts it, he wants to feel that he is being carried by God’s hand, even if outwardly it may seem that he is drifting in the wind.

David
I am a terrestrial
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Bodhran
Member

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 08:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,
I just installed the google chrome web browser which has an auto language translator built in for websites, its not perfect obviously but is handy for getting the gist of things on the german only FIGU website for anyone interested in having a browse.
Salome

Tony.
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 457
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have a conflict of information in relation to contact report 216.

216th Contact - Monday, March 16, 1987, 11:11 PM.

Billy:
May I now ask how old your mother and your father are?

Quetzal:
42. That is no secret.
43. My mother is 481, and my father is 483 years old.

Unable to remember the source but isn't Quetzal about 480 years old right now.

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Quetzal

Quetzal
Quetzal is 464 years of age, 1.9 meters (6.25 ft.) tall, blue-gray eyes and light brown hair. He is the father of six children. During the 11 year contact period (1975-1986), Quetzal was Commander of all Plejaren stations in our SOL system.
Cheers.
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Schantz
Member

Post Number: 107
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ramirez,

The information below is from an email I sent to Christian a few days ago regarding Quetzal's age.



Hi Schantz,

That's a good observation. Thank you.
The number in Guido's book is false, obviously.

In 2007, Quetzal was 376 years old.

At the moment we are correcting the extended version of Guido's book. I will watch out for that number.

Thanks and Salome,
Christian


> Hi Christian,
>
> I have a question which I hope is not too confusing to understand.
>
> In the book, And still they fly, version 2004, on page 13, Guido gives > Quetzal's approximate age of 464. >
> In Guido's book on page 34, he writes about marriage and sexual > abstinence and at what age this normally begins.
>
>
>
> My question concerns Benjamin's latest translation where Billy asks > Quetzal the age of his parents.
>
> http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=386805075&blogId=533152684
>
>
> Billy: > May I now ask how old your mother and your father are?
>
> Quetzal: > 42. That is no secret. > 43. My mother is 481, and my father is 483 years old. >
>
> The information from the contact report appears to say that Quetzal's > parents were about 21 and 23 years old when they had him which is far > different than Guido's information.
>
> The contact report is from 1987, and I used Guido's original date of > 1991 for publishing his book to come up with the approximate math.
>
> Is there an error in the translations or an explanation for this?
>
> Thanks >
> Schantz
>
>
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 459
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 07:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Schantz,

Thankyou, now it's cleared up.

So it appears Quetzal's parents added him to their family whilst relative youngsters ..... 125 and 127 years of age.
Cheers.
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Borthwey
Member

Post Number: 178
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To get instant German-English page translation (through Google translate) with the Firefox browser:

1.Install Fire gestures

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6366

2. In the Firefox menu bar, Go to tools>extras. On Fire Gestures, press options.

3. In “mapping” press “add script”

4. Copy and paste this on script section:

const FROM = "de";
const TO = "en";
const DOMAIN = "translate.google.com";
const URL = "http://" + DOMAIN + "/translate?langpair="
+ FROM + "-" + TO + "&hl=" + TO + "&u=";

var curURL = gBrowser.currentURI.spec;
if (curURL.indexOf(DOMAIN) != -1)
BrowserReload();
else
gBrowser.loadURI(URL + encodeURIComponent(curURL));

5. Type the desired mouse gesture. Example: UD (will execute the script when you press the right mouse button and move the mouse up (U) and down (D), releasing the button while doing the down movement.
I am a terrestrial
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 262
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can you recommend a readily accessible translation of "Direktiven"?
Love is always the way

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