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Archive through November 03, 2009

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Spiritual Teaching » Meditation » Archive through November 03, 2009 « Previous Next »

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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jakester,
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Concentration_Exercises
Thats where you will find it mate.
I started the year wanting to improve myself in my thinking and acting, so I decided on a course of action.
First - complete the 77 affirmations from the clear sight meditation.
Second - improve my ability to concentrate.
Thirdly - Begin a serious and lasting course of meditation.

I have only just completed the clear sight meditation and am up to, on this very day, the 11th minute of the concentration exercise that Billy taught Jacob.

Meanwhile I am also using readplease to learn (and instil the hidden code)from the various german writings of Billy.
Peace John
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1865
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnnybalmain,

Actually the concentration exercises outlined by Jacob, come from the book "Die Psyche", which was written by Billy. To the best of my knowledge there is no approved English Translation at present, but the exercises mentioned for the most part correspond with the German Text.

Regards
Scott
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 733
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I offer this opinion based on what I have learned from the lessons in BEAM's writings: If one cannot concentrate then the proper meditation won't be achieved. With that in mind the concentration-building methods are endless but the idea is to train yourself to focus on one and only one thing completely. After that, meditation can be learned to different ends. It is my understanding that the mind must be cleared of material conscious thought in order for the spiritual side of our consciousness to come through and be recognized by our material consciousness. Meditation is not however just stopping thought because if that alone were the case, people in a coma would all be meditating!

Thomas
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,
Thanks for that I was just trying to be helpful, my knowledge is not sufficient to teach and I except this. Pity there is not an approved english translation of this book?
Thomas,
Yes thats I am taking this course of action before embarking on the meditation side of things.

Do any of you know of any other concentration excercises available.
Also concerning the sun concentration excercise is one able or permitted etc to carry out the excercise more than once each day for example when on the 12th minute mark can I do it a few times that day before moving on the 13th minute the next day. In my heart I feel it is ok I suppose I'm just seeking out confirmation.

Peace John
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Jgarbush
Member

Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to sound stupid, but what are you supposed to get out of meditation. Do you get closer to your spirit? What is the goal in mind when doing meditation?
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 520
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 06:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jgarbush, have you ever questioned yourself what benefit do you draw from excersing sport (basketball,cycling, running, walking, tennis, golf...?)

Well, if our human bodies need some exercises in order to stay fit and healthy, it seems like our spirits and our consciousnesses need some training too, and the best activity in order to train, exercise non material aspects of our existence is meditation.

Sport and/or meditation are never mandatory. They are not an obligation. But you and me (as a sum of body, mind, psyche, spirit), will benefit from keeping body, mind, psyche and spirit in good shape.

If we identify ourselves with our bodies only, we will never find any value in the practice of meditation. But most of us here identify ourselves not just with our bodies, but with something else, the spirit, which gives relevance and sense to our lives. We are committed to exercise such entity (the human spirit), and we want to refine and make the best out of it. How can we achieve such goal....through meditation, of course....
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Memo00
Member

Post Number: 389
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 08:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi Jgarbush

Meditation brings benefits for the body, the psyche and the consciousness.

What is the specific goal depends on the person and the "kind" of meditation, because as Billy has explained there exist innumerable forms of meditation.

Also Billy has explained that meditation is equal to concentration, and concentration is good for all, think about any activity in your daily life, be it work, a hobby, having sex, whatever you do in life if you concentrate you will do it better, you will enjoy it more, you will remain relaxed, you will see things neutrally and so you will learn more from the experience, etc.

If you practice meditation regularly you will be healthier, your mind will be calm, you will free your self from fear and anxiety, you will be more creative and find solutions to everyday´s problems, you will be more efficient, you will be more optimistic and happy, in short it is good for you and for everyone.

Ultimately the goal is evolution, to be a little better each day in all possible ways, to live in peace, freedom, love and harmony with yourself and with all.

take care
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Jakester
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Johnny,
Thanks for the link to the "sun" concentration exercise, not what I was expecting but definitely looks interesting, I'm gonna try it.

Take care pal, Jake
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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re concentration exercises
I found this breathing exercise interesting in that a person is able to recognise within him/herself the amount of thought clutter that continually passes one's mind.
It is simple and goes like this.
In a complete relaxed sitting or laying down posture close one's eyes and breathe normally.
Upon each in breath be aware of the air entering your nostrils. The idea is to count your breathes.
You count your in breathes only, counting up to 20 then at 20 you count backwards 19 18 17 etc till you get back to 1. Then back up to 20 and so on and so on.
How long can you go before thoughts start entering the cycle and before you know it your off on some thinking trip completely irrevelent to your exercise. The emergence of doubt occurrs also as you ward off those unwanted thoughts,was it 17 next? etc .By the way soon as you lose count you have to start again.
This one helped me to learn to push away thoughts not needed and prepare me a little for the "thoughtlessness" stage of the sun concentration exercise. I must admit I still have a couple of hundred years to go yet.
Also I found the light of the candle irritates my delicate eyes so I was thinking of using something else, any suggestions please?
Peace John
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 309
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi John.

When you say "thoughts" isn't this internal dialogue where you have a conversation with yourself or are you saying images as well ?
So unless there is another real voice then it must be just yourself .... and can be very annoying.

Personally I find great difficulty with concentration excercises but have few problems if a suitable distractant is introduced so with so called meditation .... music seems to work wonders.

Switch on some favourite music via head or earphones then follow simple breathing exercises similar to those you mentioned. Everyone would have a different technique. Close your eyes.

Breathe in about 3-4 seconds, hold 8-10 or longer if possible, breathe out 3-4 seconds then hold with no breath for a few seconds then breathe in again.
Try to keep it low and shallow not gulping in huge volumes.

A natural rhythm can develop with practice so eventually it requires no conscious efforts regarding timing.

So with a breathing technique and music combined can gradually develop an interesting relaxed state whereby the inner dialogue just seems to vanish without concentrating on or expecting anything.

This can be tried anywhere isolated including among nature, in the garden etc.

Other things to help with this are having burning incense and a quiet dark room .... white robe is optional :-) If you try this please give feedback.
Cheers.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1869
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

In the meditation book written by Billy, concentration is developed by simply observing/registering the breath entering and exiting the nostrils. No counting of breaths, mantras etc...when you start counting etc, you are using the material mind, which is what you are trying not to do, but rather to develop the ability to concentrate/focus the consciousness on one point. Granted concentration is not easy and can take a minimum of 7 years to develop or more. When the material mind is quieted down, this allows for the finer perceptions to develop and a slow disengagement from physical reality. Of course there is much more to this, but this is what I remember reading...

Regards
Scott
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Phenix
Member

Post Number: 305
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 01:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greeting the forum,

I second what you stated above, Scott:
Book (in German) "Einführung in die Meditation" von 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier; chapter 'Konzentration'(pages 53-62); then the "Einführung in die Meditation" itself(begin at page 107), where precisely the pages 113 to 117 explain the 'Breathing Exercice'(Atemübung): Verses 52 up to 85.

Salome.
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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 03:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ramirez,
Thanks for the suggestions but I would honestly find music a distractment (is that a word?).When I say thoughts I mean yes it is a sort of unconscious mind communication that is what is trying to be avoided is it not? At the moment I am imagining a sort of waving away of any thoughts with imaginary hands which I fade away when the intruding thought is pushed out of my mind's eye so to speak. So when another thought starts to intrude on my attempted thoughtlessness I get these hands to automaticly appear and do their job again. This is just the technic I am using at the moment to achieve thoughtlessness.

Hi Scott,
I have tried that and used it at bedtime and found it very good in helping me to sleep, haha.
Seriously I do thank you for your assist. You say of course there is much more to this and I would love to know that as well. Is there any unofficial translations of the meditation book written by Billy anywhere I could source?
Peace John
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 311
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 05:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi John.

distractment: hmmm, I wrote distractant which is a real word.

Anyway with this concentration thing which is a real demon to master.

What seems strange with your statement is that you are imagining an imaginary hand pushing away the thoughts or communications.
Errrr isn't that almost as bad as having the self dialogue itself which seems to be the real culprit meditators seeks to tame ?
So now you appear to have 2 mental activities simultaneously competing with each other.

Music requires no personal effort so that alone seems one up on using your imagination to combat the talking beastie.

Probably the set of structured excercises developed by Jacob would eventually work with a lot of perserverence however like yourself and others, staring into a candle flame can become monotonous and painful to the eyes for some people.
Have you considered a lava lamp ? At least the light source is soft and diffused.
If you can watch the different shapes rising and falling without making inner dialogue comments to yourself that might be an option worth trying.
Cheers.
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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ramirez,
Distractment, could'nt find it in the oxford modern dictionary.
The hands seem to aid by appearing instantly upon the intrusion of a thought and disappear just as quickly. They dont hang around and waiting for the next intrusion so I'm not I dont think creating another mental distraction.
What I think I will try is an enlarged picture of a lit candle, just the top half of the candle and the flame, against a white or black background.
That exercise of counting the breaths I am going to use in trying to introduce meditation to my two young teenagers. I think to see it as a sort of contest might capture their attention, if only for a short time, but it might bring them back to meditation later in their lives.The word meditation will not be mentioned, I will call it a concentration contest.
Peace John
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Markcampbell
Member

Post Number: 271
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Smart strategy , John .

Mark
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 07:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who is (the) I?
I is

In searching for the source of the sense of self there comes a point beyond which relative ego death is inevitable. And still goes I.

Where (the) I is directly imperceptible by any objective means, it can only be noticed by the alterations (in the natural order) that occur around it. Yet still goes I.

Who is I? What is I? Where is I? Why is I?

And god laughs.
Love is always the way
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angel fish I
Present and dazzled
With a translucent magic secret
liquid sky
Love is always the way
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 59
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 06:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can we get a sense of it? What are the tools we have for our use to determine our world around and within us?

Just fer fun, here's my conjecture, do with it what you will.

Three main 'levels' of senses, though you could probably delineate them in other ways as well, three levels grouped according to their fundamentalness: Existential senses, Mental senses, and Physical senses

Existential senses - it may not seem like these are actually sensed, until you are faced with existential circumstances (like dying).
1. sense of self
2. sense of right and wrong
3. self of awareness
4. sense of communication and alignment

Mental senses - abit easier to sense while still living and interacting with your world.
1. sense of imagination
2. sense of change
3. sense of logical discernment (a sense of what makes sense)

Physical senses - two kinds - the more commonly recognized senses, and those that are less so.
1. sense of physicality - sense of physical hereness and thereness
2. sense of motion
3. senses of bio-optical and electromagnetic fields
4. senses of touch, temperature, taste, hearing, and sight

Anyway, perhaps this makes sense, perhaps not. I spose its what you think about when you are trying to figure the depth of your sense of self. Certainly I have revived this list a few times over the years.

Hope it helps : )
Love is always the way
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 175
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sitkaa,

Have you tried telling yourself out-loud in the bathroom or somewhere alone (for the sake of 'saneness') .....'I am not the body' or 'I am separate from this body'. Or as a question...'Am I the body?'. Curious enough the statement doesn't seem to be in conflict in my head...

Because I know I am not in total control of my body, in fact, "I" is only in control of movement of hands, feet, head, and body and the act of thinking... The rest, being the vital behavior of vital organs or glands etc. is mechanized. So the statement 'I am not the body' is in harmony with the reality...

That's funny, the "I" is asking 'what is I?'. Logically, the "I" is that which is asking.
Adrian.
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Michael_horn
Member

Post Number: 75
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adysor,

I posted a response in the poetry section.
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Sitkaa,

I just want to say something about the senses you enumerated.


The sense of self - is learned since birth through the help of parents and the passing of knowledge.

The sense of right and wrong - is born from the knowledge.

The sense of awareness - to be aware is to know what is around you.

Sense of communication - again is learned through help of parents and teachers. Language or signs.

Sense of imagination - thought playing with knowledge???

Sense of change - I am not sure I understand that. Still need knowledge to know that this is different than it was 5 min ago. So it has changed.

Sense of logical discernment - It doesn't make sense that I don't exist...because I am saying that in this very moment.

Sense of physical hereness and thereness - knowledge of space and measurement.

Sense of motion - in-built mechanism...I think it's somewhere in the ear.

Sense of bio-optical and electromagnetic fields - I am not sure of this one.

Sense of touch, taste, hearing, sight and smell - Senses through which knowledge interferes in order to "classify" the different types of touch, taste, hearing, sight and smell.
Adrian.
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 61
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Adrian for the comment.

Wondering if I am or am not comprised of or limited to this body is not a major question for me.

Perhaps another question to ponder might be more germane - is 'I' in control of I? And more relative to your underlying question, is 'I' 'I'? To know this, for certain, the 'I' must know the 'I' in every way it can.

This is not just some academic mind-twister. Should you question whether you are under the influence of some outside intent, or more deeply, that your very ego itself has been molded by some outside circumstance, you will run up against this question.

So, to objectify the ponderable, who is you? How would you address this question? How deep inside yourself will you go?

This is jnana (Sanskrit for wisdom).
Love is always the way

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