| Author |
Message |
   
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 1514
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2022 - 10:57 am: | 
|
Joseph,
You and I have some similarities. I have always been a good hearted person and yes, with that I've been wronged by others I did good.
Turns out they were either threatened by me or they were simply envious and jealous. I teach martial arts, always been a natural. My martial arts teachers are world renown and who took me under their wing... because of my good heart (my teachers at one point or another always pointed this out).
So I have faced a lot of cowardice, talk-behind-my-back, etc. Very disappointing. Sometimes, I would have these ideas of revenge.. to call them out on their disparaging and insulting remarks (I have the skills to literally physically humiliate and bruise them up badly).
From the Goblet, I learned to see things differently, to view human beings differently. I no longer view people I deal with as a "person". I now view them and consider them a "personality", and individuum (see Goblet).
Viewing people as "their current personality" allows me a very realistic and honest look at the reality of the human being in question. So I apply the creational recommendations and present and protect myself accordingly... and still allow them to sojourn on their evolution.
To further explain, I would violate the forum requirement for brevity. This is because the Goblet shares wisdom and enlightenment that is best studied, evaluated and contemplated while studying such vast and constantly expanding knowledge and recognition as the consciousness evolves in its abilities and powers.
It's impossible for me to cliff note the Goblet here.
NOTE: There is a reason I mentioned to you chapter 1 and then from chapter 18 onward. Chapter 18 contains the key that unlocks the powers and abilities of the consciousness.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
|
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 466
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 - 02:53 am: |
|
Eddie,
I have an analogy for the relationship between human beings and the spiritform: Humans are the characters an actor plays, and the actor is the spiritform. The actor takes on each role only for a time and then he assumes another. He knows each character has life insofar as he gives it to them. But the characters don't see that when they are brought to life. The world is their stage and they give no thought to the actor.
I say this in response to your comment, that you no longer think of people as persons but as personalities. I wonder if we thought of ourselves as personalities rather than persons how different our lives and life would be. I wonder if that is a good way to think of ourselves. It would certainly put our lives into perspective. |
Reen71b
Member
Post Number: 120
Registered: 09-2020
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 - 03:14 am: |
|
@Joseph_emmanuel
I relate to what you've written so much. It is a struggle for sure. And a lonely one at that. It's been especially difficult for me the past year dealing with coworkers, mainly supervisors. Although I do trust myself, I find it difficult to trust others. So, I don't get in the habit of socializing with them anymore because it just isn't worth it to me. I don't deal well with passive/aggressiveness. Often times, I feel I'm working in a psych ward with how quick someone can be friendly one moment, and the table turns in the next. For me, self preservation is very important. If I ever befriend a genuinely good human being, I will treasure that.
Maureen
|
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 468
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 - 09:40 am: |
|
Maureen
I'm a good human being. I just need to learn how to be with people: when to be giving, when to be assertive, when to stand up for myself, how to tell someone just isn't good for me, as a friend or a partner. It's hard enough learning to live with ourselves that we must also learn to live with others. |
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 - 02:48 pm: |
|
Joseph,
You SAID: I have an analogy for the relationship between human beings and the spiritform: Humans are the characters an actor plays, and the actor is the spiritform.
My ANSWER: That's a great analogy. Only thing I would change is that the "character" is the consciousness-block whereas the "actor" is the comprehensive-consciousness-block... the spirit-form would be the script or play... but you've got the right idea through your impulses there.
As individuums and personalities that are constantly changing (evolving), we can realistically observe/perceive another human being as an ever evolving entity who can change to the better (the Goblet explains this rather very well). It allows love & logic to regulate how we interact with others so that we can be helpful in their sojourn in their evolution... while at the same time, exercising self-care and self-esteem.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
|
Hugo
Member
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 04-2015
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 - 07:29 pm: |
|
I used to be naively trusting of other people. Then I found the Meier material which changed me to feel very mistrusting of other people. I guess it was because the Meier material opened my eyes to the truth on so many things. One of them is that most people cannot be trusted. How naive I used to be to think it otherwise. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 474
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2022 - 05:08 am: |
|
Hugo,
Cynicism is a good default position to assume where people are concerned. But it isn't good that the Meier material has made you feel that people can't be trusted.
I used to be very open with people, and I saw this as a strength. I still am open, though perhaps more cautious. But what I learned about being open and being closed is that it is just as bad being too much of one as it is being too much of the other.
The truth is, we need to be open in order to be able to express ourselves freely. But we can't do that if we distrust people. And we definitely can't do it if we're closed. The trick is to be open, but not so open that you invite everyone into your life, including those who are no good for you; and at the same time to be closed, but not so closed that you let no one in. It's all about judging right.
Everything is one. The nature of being open and being closed work together as one. Don't just be one or the other. |
Hugo
Member
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 04-2015
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2022 - 07:17 pm: |
|
Joseph_emmanuel,
I was way too trusting of others before I found the Meier material. And looking back I think it was good how the Meier material turned me to distrust others. But nowadays I can still become trusting of some people but I do this through thinking it over and not just openly trusting of everyone like I did before. |
Jacob
Member
Post Number: 64
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2022 - 02:34 pm: |
|
Hello Hugo,
Distrust of people is basically a preconceived opinion, you are saying that most people can’t be trusted.
The Creational-energy teaching is all about neutral-positivity, not about cynicism, distrust, suspicion.
People should be neither trusted or distrusted, just observed in their thoughts, actions, surroundings and personality.
You build a trust upon that outcome.
There is a very nice part from the book Arahat Athersata, which comes to mind, German first, English translation later (I do not posses English translated books, only German ones, so the English translation may be a bit off from the official translated version.)
46. Ein Mensch der Wahrheit kennt keine Vorurteile, denn eine vorgefasste Meinung hindert das Suchen und Finden und die Ehrlichkeit.

47. Der Wahrheitmensch weiss sehr genau, dass alle Wahrheit und Weisheit im zeitlosen Fluss der endlosen Dauer liegen, so keine vorgefasste Meinung die Berechtigung in der Existenz findet.
48. Nur Fakten der Wahrheit können Fakten der Weisheit sein, nichts sonst aber, das darunter eingeordnet wird.

English translation:
46. A human of truth knows no prejudices, because a preconceived opinion hinders the search and finding and the honesty.
47. The human of truth knows very well that all truth and wisdom are in the timeless flow of the endless duration, so no preconceived opinion finds the justification in the existence.
48. Only facts of the truth can be facts of the wisdom, nothing else, however, that is classified under it.
What I want to say is, that preconceived opinions are very widespread in every human, you, me, other people on the forum, world wide, even when we don’t recognise it, or assume we are beyond preconceived opinions, which we most certainly are not.
People should be assessed upon their personality as a whole, and not by default, distrusted or trusted. However, that is my opinion in this.
“The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius
Salome,
Jacob
|
Hugo
Member
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 04-2015
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2022 - 09:56 pm: |
|
Jacob,
You are probably right there!
After I found Meier I changed to trust no-one until they prove otherwise. For me to change to what you (and the teachings) say there it will definitely not be easy for me because I've come to feel safe within myself in not trusting anyone I meet. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 481
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2022 - 11:03 pm: |
|
Jacob,
It is only natural to form opinions. You can't arrive at an understanding without having an opinion about something. Preconceived opinions do hinder your search for the truth, and they do hinder your ability to be absolutely honest with yourself. They make you bigoted, but only if you hold onto them. The thing is, you need a starting point in order to move forward. So having opinions are essential to learning about the truth. If you remain neutral in your search, you won't be grasping at anything, but letting everything pass. You'd be non-commital, sitting on the fence, and will lack the ability to judge and discriminate correctly, which are essential tools to learning about the truth. The forming of opinions, whether preconceived or not, aren't the real issue. It's whether or not you choose to hold on to them when in your search for understanding you are confronted, as you will be, by other ideas. The real issue is whether or not we are open with ourselves, because only then can we be absolutely honest with ourselves; only then can the truth reach us.
None of us are true humans beings, and neither can we hope to be at our evolution. We are not Billy, who occupies that special place in the universe where he is knowledgeable enough to be neutral-positive with everything and everyone he deals with. He doesn't need to pass through the quagmire that we all need to pass through. |
Jacob
Member
Post Number: 65
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2022 - 08:54 am: |
|
Joseph, see my answers below:
Jacob,
It is only natural to form opinions. You can't arrive at an understanding without having an opinion about something. Preconceived opinions do hinder your search for the truth, and they do hinder your ability to be absolutely honest with yourself.
Answer: There is a huge difference between ‘just’ an opinion and a preconceived opinion, I only spoke about the latter. Being distrustful of people before you even know them is a preconceived opinion, which is always wrong (illogical). An example: If I would see a tomato, and would tell everybody that they are bad for you, because I dislike tomato’s (I actually love them), then this is a preconceived opinion because it is not based on facts. If I would neutrally examine a tomato and observe that they are, when ripe, are red, contain lots of water, that they are a fruit, that they even work against certain types of cancer, then the logical conclusion would be, that tomato’s are good for you, regardless if you like the taste or not.
They make you bigoted, but only if you hold onto them. The thing is, you need a starting point in order to move forward. So having opinions are essential to learning about the truth. If you remain neutral in your search, you won't be grasping at anything, but letting everything pass. You'd be non-commital, sitting on the fence, and will lack the ability to judge and discriminate correctly, which are essential tools to learning about the truth. The forming of opinions, whether preconceived or not, aren't the real issue. It's whether or not you choose to hold on to them when in your search for understanding you are confronted, as you will be, by other ideas. The real issue is whether or not we are open with ourselves, because only then can we be absolutely honest with ourselves; only then can the truth reach us.
Answer: You mistake passivity with neutrality, there is a huge difference between the two. If I am passive, I do not examine an object or given situation, I would not be gaining any information about that object or situation, hence I would be unable to create an informed opinion, I would not learn anything. If I am neutral, I can be absolutely active in observing a given object or situation without colouring it with assumptions, preconceived opinions, external opinions of others.
The act of neutral observation is also an activity, it’s the gathering of data without mutilation caused by ones own thoughts, assumptions, hypothesis, theories and opinions.
This is taught very early on in the Geisteslehre Briefen (Spirit lessons), which I will use a snippet to clarify myself:
Spiritlesson 3, page 34
German:
Du hast dich dabei in eine Position hineinzuversetzen, die dir erlaubt, sowohl auf die Erde hinab, wie auch in die universellen Bereiche hinein blicken zu können. Dabei ist es auch erforderlich, dass du dich in einen ehrlich neutralen Zustand hineinversetzt, um als unvoreingenommener Beobachter ohne eigene Interessen die Welt der Erde sowie auch das Universum überblicken zu können. Nur unter diesen Um ständen wird es dir möglich sein, die universellen Prinzipien erblicken und erkennen zu können, die sämtliche Lebensformen, so also auch den Menschen, beeinflussen, und die er forderlich sind, um das Wesen der verschiedenen Lebensformen erfassen zu können.
English (Deepl, may contain errors!):
You have to put yourself in a position that allows you to look down on the earth as well as into the universal realms. It is also necessary that you put yourself in an honestly neutral state, in order to be able to look over the world of the earth as well as the universe as an unbiased observer without own interests. Only under these circumstances will it be possible for you to see and recognize the universal principles which influence all forms of life, so also the human being, and which are necessary to be able to grasp the essence of the different forms of life.
Neutrality is also taught quite extensively in Billy’s book ‘Introduction to Meditation’
None of us are true humans beings, and neither can we hope to be at our evolution. We are not Billy, who occupies that special place in the universe where he is knowledgeable enough to be neutral-positive with everything and everyone he deals with. He doesn't need to pass through the quagmire that we all need to pass through.
Answer: At the moment, this is true, however we need to start somehow and somewhere, no better time than the present. Every time that I am truly honest and neutral, even for a short amount of time, is a win for me. This applies for everyone else as well.
“The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius
Salome,
Jacob
|
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page
