Post Number: 807
|Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 05:31 pm: ||
Vivienne and I were honoured to be asked to translate Marianne Uehlinger Mondria's lengthy introduction to Billy's new book, "Gotteswahn und Gotteswahnkrankheit" (God-delusion and God-delusion Disease.") We finished it on the 10th.
She informs us that Billy should have a look at our work in a couple of weeks to try to sort out what the FIGU-preferred terms might be in English. Then we'll let Michael and James publish it. I think it might also come out in a bulletin.
But Mariann has already kindly made the effort to point out one (there will probably be more) important example of a poor choice of words, of which we were unaware due to a difference between the conventional English usage and the FIGU-preferred hyponym.
Since I've noticed a lot of (very poor, software) translations surfacing these days, I thought it was best that this one common correction was shared as quickly as possible, so I'll take the liberty (I'm sure she won't mind) of excerpting Mariann's welcome comments below, which are self-explanatory.
Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Du - genau wie die Amerikaner und Kanadier auch - schreibst "spiritual teachings".
I've noticed that you - exactly like the Americans and also the Canadians - write "spiritual teachings".
Es es sind aber keine "teachings", sondern nur "teaching".
There are, however, no "teachings" but only "teaching".
Es ist nur eine Lehre.
It's only one teaching.
Nur bei den vielen Falschlehren sagt man "false teachings".
One only says "false teachings" when referring to the many false teachings.
In Deutsch heisst es ja auch "die Geisteslehre" und nicht Lehren.
Indeed, in German it is also called "the Spirit Teaching" and not teachings.
Bitte schaut, dass das in Zukunft richtig ist, falls Ihr etwas schreibt oder übersetzt.
Please check that this is correct in the future, in case you write or translate something.
Post Number: 202
|Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 11:06 am: ||
Notwithstanding appearances or dictionaries, the word 'teaching' properly does not mean 'teachment' or 'the act of teaching' in this context, but 'teach-ine', just like 'doctrina' in Latin. The suffix -ing in English can mean 'in', as '-ina' in Latin, with a similar indication of belonging or collection as 'Ge-' in German. This is also the case with the word 'meaning'.
Additionally there is the word 'lesson', meaning not 'teaching' but 'part of a teaching', so that lessons assemble a teaching. Thus, 'belehren' can mean 'give teaching to', 'give lessons to', 'enteachingate' or 'indoctrinate' (but the last word has taken on bad connotations).
I do, however, understand the following: 'einen jungen Ast kann man biegen, den Alten aber lässt man liegen'.
Post Number: 203
|Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 01:12 pm: ||
I have also noticed that the Arahat Athersata, whose language more easily translates into English than, for instance, the language of OM, speaks not of a 'Geisteslehre', but of a 'Geistlehre', meaning 'teaching in spirit' or 'teaching at spirit' or 'teaching for spirit' or 'teaching by spirit' or 'teaching unto spirit' or 'teaching from spirit' (a dative, instead of a genitive, connexion). Since the Goblet-of-Truth-translation has used 'in' for this, then 'teaching in spirit' is probably the best translation into English.
Post Number: 208
|Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 07:14 pm: ||
Also, 'Gotteswahn und Gotteswahnkrankheit' translates more properly to 'God-Delusion & God-Delusion-Sickness'. Disease = Beschwerde. Sickness = Krankheit.
Post Number: 94
|Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 08:58 pm: ||
Actually your thoughts on the translation are quite welcome, especially now while it is still being translated, so that it can be corrected by the final version. If you are a pure English speaker, that is even better since people like you are the target audience.
For example, if you find sentences that do not make sence, then they were either not translated properly or you do not understand it yet. Mentioning that here (or better yet, in the Goblet of Truth thread) is helpful in both cases, since you will either help the translation team improve the translation or improve your own understanding of the subject.
Like this sentence:
158)It was and is taught that everything shall be desisted from which does harm and gives no benefit; whoever acquires such things nevertheless will not have any joyful portion in life; but it is true that so many sell their happiness and their gladness for awful things, for scum and all the terrible things of the world because knowledge and truth is abhorrent to them.
Of course, buying something like the Bible will not cause me to not have any joyful portion in my life. It looks to me like they tried to translate it word-for-word and it did not work out properly in this case. The real meaning is that obtaining things that do harm and give no benefit will not take any joyful part or share in my life.
Also, Matthew, I do mostly agree with you. The difference is that Dasein has a very developed meaning in German philosophical circles, while there is no equivalent English word. If you did use something like presencehood, it would be an invented word, and not many people would understand it. But as an example, it should help others to get a better understanding. Maybe you should write a best-seller book on presencehood, so that we can have a more direct English translation of Kelch der Wahrheit.
36.The human is another person, when, surrounded by the rays of the heavenly creational sunrise, the pure delight of awakening nature streams through him.
Post Number: 71
|Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:03 pm: ||
As I read the English translations I realized that I cant understand or grasp its sense of meaning.It gives another question that if the books cant be translated as correctly as original text, if I learn german how I could understand it either(because I have to translate it either maybe just in mind)? By the way I know several languages except german but the problem still exists.
Post Number: 1616
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:11 am: ||
Long time no hear!
Well, I even us the term: 'Spiritual Teachings', in the sense it being a -
Bundle - of commandments/recommendations, etc., and each one is a 'Spiritual
Teaching' (of it's own), of that one WHOLE Spiritual Teachings 'Bundle' (=
Plural), Billy brings, anew.
So, it does, concern, HOW One would compose it in it's context(?).
That is WHY, I mentioned in one of my posts, something like: the (12)
commandments/recommendations are each a Spiritual Teaching(1 to 12), and
than, referring to it being ONE part/item of that/the WHOLE Spiritual Teachings
Bundle = Plural.
Thus, every commandment/recommendation(, etc.), should be seen 'separately'
from each other, in that Bundle of Spiritual Teachings!
Thus, in a sense Billy does bring us 'a' Spiritual Teaching...which consists
of MANY 'individual' Spiritual Teachings(/recommendations): All together =
Plural(; or, see above).
So, I try to compose a posting to my best 'English-English', ability.
Hi to Vivienne, if you will.
Post Number: 86
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 03:09 am: ||
Thanks for the reply it just seemed to me with my limited knowledge to use the word "your" to eradicate any confusion. Yes I am only a pure english speaker of the australian convict dialect.
Post Number: 355
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 08:48 am: ||
In light of Gaia's note on the Spiritual Teaching <singular>, it's kind of amusing that there is a Topic with the heading "The Spiritual Teachings" <plural>, on this forum.
Perhaps this should be corrected; Scott, Badr??
Good point :-) will change it now...
Thanks for the tip.
(Message edited by badr on January 15, 2010)
Post Number: 211
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 10:38 am: ||
In English many words are used 'senselessly' or 'mindlessly', quite literally or nearly (at the latter they possess multiple contradictory meanings), in that their usages are just mimicked per circumstance. However, in the language of the prophets and of the teaching-in-spirit, all words can be understood directly from what they self-intelligibly say, so for instance, the word 'concentration' means exactly the same thing at human conscioushood as it does at the concentration of a substance in chemistry. One just has to train one's brain by meditation to encompass the whole reality and context of the words. Then one will grasp the meaning. The reality is, on the rule, simple and logical, and similar to something concrete. As above, so below.
Post Number: 213
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 10:47 am: ||
Scott: post the second post only
You should buy a copy of the 'Compact Oxford English Dictionary' and a book by Daniel Jones on customary pronunciation and learn the RP and the standard-dialect (BBC English). The benefits will go both into your native dialect and into your conscioushood and psyche. Perhaps a book by Cicely Berry on voice would also be of avail.
Notwithstanding cultural resistance, Americans too should learn to read and speak the correct and good dialect of English.
As that little snippet I left on 'Current Events' shows, the language of North-American academia has also cascaded into the depths of Newspeak and languagelessness. Unless one intends to fall victim (i.e. collapse) at the 77 evilest evils of all evil by ingress of 'false tongue' and 'slimy talk', one must improve one's language.
Post Number: 215
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 11:08 am: ||
Even though philosophers and other writers can help one at understanding Billy's writings, I do find by myself that the spirit-teaching regularly depends only from oneself and one's own observations and cognitions, i.e. it is purely auto-empirical, in stark contrast to most science. Even the stories of things we cannot ever see with our 5 senses or at our lowly level of evolution, we can verify by Logic and evolutionizing.
At least in German, the language of the spirit-teaching is also very symbolic (sinnbildlich) and thus very literal and essential. The sense/meaning behind the words is not something complicated once one perceives it.
In 'high' English, one would primarily read a word according to its symbolic meaning and its dictionary-definition, confirmed by German translation and definition in the spirit-teaching. Any usage of the word would thus conform to these criteria. This is the best way of doing it because there is only one Truth and there is only one possible true meaning (Sinn) of anywhich symbol (but possibly different interpretations).
Post Number: 88
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:02 pm: ||
re: spiritual teaching(s), also there is need to change the title here http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/5553.html?1260464730
Post Number: 217
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:42 pm: ||
Properly, the OM does not speak of 'the 77 evilest evils of all evil', but in 'high' English, according to the more accurate definitions, 'the 77 illest illnesses of all illness' or 'most malign malignances of all malignance' (die 77 übelste Uebel aller Uebel). In English, the word 'evil' has come to mean more 'böse' than 'übel'.
Following is a transverbation of the list from
OM Kanon 29:
'44. 77 schlimmste Schanden also sind, die da von den Bösen und Ungerechten begangen werden, und die wahrheitlich sind die übelsten Uebel aller Uebel.'
'44. There are thus 77 direst disgraces thich become committed by the evil- and unrightine-ones (unrighteous-), and that are truthlily the illest illnesses of all illness (most malignant malignancies of all malignance).
45. Hurerei (whoredom, harlotry, prostitution)
46. Hohe Augen (high/haughty eyes)
47. Falsche Zunge (false tongue)
48. Bluthände (hands-in-blood)
49. Böse Tücke (evil perfidies)
50. Behende Füsse (nimble feet)
51. Schaden tuen (doing harms)
52. Hader säen (sowing quarrel)
53. Zuchtlosigkeit (breedlessness, unchastity, undisciplinedness, unrearedness)
54. Rächen (revenging)
55. Hassen (hating)
56. Dieberei (thievery, pilferage)
57. Schleimige Rede (slimy talk)
58. Bündnisbruch (breach of bondal/bond/connexion/marriage/alliance)
59. Unreinheit (umpurity, unpureness, uncleanness)
60. Ordnungslosigkeit (orderlessness, arrangementlessness)
61. Lügen (lying, mendacizing, evasive false-telling, self-advantageous ambages, etc)
62. Sektiererei (sectarianism)
63. Eifersucht (jealousy, addiction-to-rivalry, & envy, etc)
64. Sadismus (sadism)
65. Zügellosigkeit (bridlelessness, restraintlessness)
66. Kriegen (warring)
67. Machtgier (greed-for-might, covetance-)
68. Gewinnsucht (addiction-to-gain)
69. Geizen (avarice & being a niggard, miser; stinginess)
70. Grössenwahn (megalomania, delusion of grandeur)
71. Herrschsucht (addiction-to-dominance, -prevailing, 'imperiousness')
72. Egoismus (egoism)
73. Sklaverei (slavery)
74. Folterei (tortury, torture)
75. Richten (dressing, aligning, garnishing, 'judging', justifying, redirecting, false-conciliating)
76. Quälerei (tormentery, 'quelery' (quele = O.E. 'quälen', 'töten'))
77. Streiterei (contensionism, disputery)
78. Ueble Rede (ill/malign talk)
79. Unselbständigkeit (non-self-stability, unautonomy)
80. Zuhälterei (pimpery, pandery, whore-keepery)
81. Engelmacherei (angel-makery)
82. Erbschleicherei (skulkery-for-inheritance, sneakery-)
83. Erbstreiterei (contensionism-/disputery-about-inheritance)
84. Anstandslose Sprache (decencyless language, fit-of-instanceless language, unsuitable language)
85. Dazwischenreden (intertalking, interrupting talk)
86. Schande bereiten (readying/preparing disgraces)
87. Ehre verletzen (hurting honour)
88. Respekt missachten (misrespecting respect, misheeding-)
89. Ehrfurchtslosigkeit (awelessness)
90. Gläubigkeit (credulity, believyness)
91. Götzendienerei (servery/service-to-godlets/-tin-gods/-'idols')
92. Gottdienerei (servery/service-to-a-god)
93. Kultdienerei (servery/service-to-a-cult or -cult-ritual or -cult-ceremony)
94. Opferei (sacrificery, offeringism)
95. Hörigkeit (cliency, human-ownedness, belongingness with obeyingness)
96. Gier (greed, coveting, cupidity)
97. Laster (vice)
98. Sucht (addiction, 'ill-suckage')
99. calumny (the making and sowing of misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the words and actions of someone or something meant to damage the reputation thereof, abreputation; also defamation)
100. Selbstmitleid (self-compassion, fellow-suffering-for-oneself)
101. Mitleid (compassion, fellow-suffering (as opposed to fellow-feeling or sympathy)
102. Gleichgültigkeit (apathy (suffering neither loathly nor liefly/gladly), indifference, blindness-to-value-differences)
103. Mutwilligkeit (wantonness, covet-willedness)
104. Nachlässigkeit (laid-backness, remissness, remissiveness)
105. Fahrlässigkeit (permissiveness, negligence)
106. Böses Trachten (evil aspiring)
107. Böses Handeln (evil acting/self-wielding)
108. Lieblosigkeit (lovelessness)
109. Wissenslosigkeit (knowledgelessness)
110. Ungezogenheit (unraisedness, untrainedness, unupbroughtness, customlessness, ill-manneredness)
111. Weisheitslosigkeit (wisdomlessness, wiseness-)
112. Wahrheitslosigkeit (truthlessness)
113. Verstümmelung (mutilation)
114. Fledderei (grave-robbery, lootery, despoilery)
115. Frevelei (contemptery, perpetrationism of contemptuous acts/'outrages')
116. Plünderei (plundery, pillagery)
117. Falsche Lehre verbreiten (spreading-abroad/disseminating false teaching)
118. Schwachheit (weakness)
119. Faulheit (laziness)
120. Totenbeschwörerei (necromancery, conjurism-at-the-dead, necromancy)
121. Untreue (disloyalty)'
Post Number: 84
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 02:58 pm: ||
Dyson and Vivienne use the name gaiaguys.
My username is gaiawingz, and my given name is Gaia (which I use to sign off on posts) -- so, in the interest of clarity, please refer to Dyson and Vivienne either by their names or by their full username; gaiaguys.
Post Number: 218
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 03:04 pm: ||
I also find that '-th, -t, -itude' does not mean
'-ness', '-heit', but 'measure of -ness'. Thus, heat and hotness are not the selfsame thing. Heat is something's measure of hotness, but nearly anthing has heat, whereas only something comparatively high in heat has hotness.
On the other hand, this can mean 'measure of -ness' in a different sense, as with 'Truth', being the measure of trueness of something or the measure of trueness of all things. So when speaking of 'der Wahrheit', one should say 'the truth' or 'Truth', while 'persönliche Wahrheit' were 'personal trueness', since this is subjective and not unentailedly or unspecifiedly objectively or truthlily measurable.
So, in saying that something has a certain heat, we may tell 'this object has a heat of 20 degrees Centigrade', while the 'hotness' of it depends from whether or not the one hand has been in the cold or the hot water.
Similarly, we may measure the truth of something by telling out that a statement about reality is either true or false, while a personal opinion's trueness depends from what mind's flesh of feeling it becomes apprehended by.
Post Number: 220
|Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 10:02 pm: ||
Also, the simplest solution to the problem of the word 'people' could be just to re-spell it 'peaple' (noting that in Middle-English it was spelled 'peple' and that 'people' corresponds to a pronunciation with a metaphonized/umlauted ö) and to then pronounce it with an 'e:' as other long 'ea' spellings that become ordinarily but illogically pronounced 'i:' these days in most dialects.
However, 'peaple' does not mean 'Volk', but 'Leute', and 'folk' or 'tribe' or 'society' means 'Volk'.
Post Number: 87
|Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 12:41 am: ||
It was a joke I have no problem speaking aussie lingo and prefer to think that I am extremely lucky to live in my native Australia considering what's happening everywhere else.
I thought my suggestion to replace the word "the" with the word "your" was a sensible answer for the prevention of confusion.
No doubt I will now receive a twenty paragragh lecture from you explaining the reason why not.
Post Number: 221
|Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 09:33 am: ||
Being a speaker only of an Australian dialect, could it be that you are not qualified to criticize translations into standard-English?
Even though I grew up in the USA and Canada, I can also read and speak correct standard-English.
If I knew only the native dialect and not a literary one, or if I confused the two, and if I knew only the native pronunciation, I would be in a much more poor and constricted position.
Post Number: 222
|Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 09:41 am: ||
I must also add that it is farcical and indicative of irresponsibility that the Canadian government has by-remissiveness and -idiotic spelling-reform created a pseudo-standard 'Canadian English' instead of using the correct English English in its English parliament and in its schools. This must be due to the influence of the imperialistic Americans, since what they are now calling 'Canadian English' as spoken on TV is not even reflective of most of the dialects I hear in Canada, but is very Americanized. In Cape Breton, for instance, the older folk sound little different from those in certain parts of Ireland, while the Newfoundlanders could well be from England. Yet they are not taught the RP or correct spelling in school.
Post Number: 223
|Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 09:58 am: ||
The following was posted in the wrong area somehow:
One may also translate 'Zucht' as 'chastening', thich indeed does fit well with that word, and 'Frevlerei' as 'flagitizery', with a new verb for the adjective 'flagitious', 'to flagitize'. One might say that a 'Frevel' is a 'felony', and a 'Frevler' is a 'felon', as well but since that is actually a specific classification of crime that does not encompass all flagitious acts, it may confuse. I object to the word 'outrage' since rage is an illogical affect of emotion that no evil deed may justify. Anger or ire is distinct from rage, wrath, fury, etc. A logical-thinking human is more likely to become vexed or gramed and angered by 'flagities' (contemptuous and disdignible crimes commited in flagrant insolence, etc) than to fly into a fit of passioned and unchastened rage.
Post Number: 224
|Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 01:22 pm: ||
99. Verleumdung (calumny (the making and sowing of misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the words and actions of someone or something meant to damage the reputation thereof, abreputation; also defamation))
Post Number: 88
|Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 02:30 am: ||
As I expected an immediate put down.
It does'not matter what my ability is in reference to what you understand as correct it is completely irrevelent. The whole point of my input was to explain that of which I understand and of which makes sense to me. If it irks you that I know so little then so be it. Don't forget to take your medication.