| Author |
Message |
   
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 812
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 02:00 pm: | 
|
IMPORTANT NOTICE!
Dear prospective unauthorised translators!
Please hold off on any attempts to post your work on the two contacts (to start with) in the new SB 51. Vivienne and I have started on them and should have finished versions for you as soon as we can manage, so please be patient. Also: as stated here recently, we've already done Mariann's introduction to BEAM's new book and it is now with him for final checking, so that will be published as soon as he's finished with it.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 813
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 05:48 pm: |
|
Dear all,
I’ve been pondering addressing the following issues for too long, so here goes – more about translations of Billy’s texts into the English language. It can’t be said in a few words, so please bear with me, moderators and readers.
It’s all about avoiding misunderstandings, and being as clear as possible while rigorously avoiding oversimplifying things by ignoring complexity and complications.
I THINK I MIGHT have misled people in my above remarks to our friend “Earthling” because I’m out of the habit of trying to make myself unambiguously understood by the wide spectrum of English readers here on this forum. Sorry.
When I said that Benjamin is cranking his gist translations out like sausages, I was unwisely using a familiar Australianism which means that he is producing them at a regular and very speedy rate. My subsequent metaphor about food may have therefore been misleading.
Vivienne and I do not provide gourmet translations. We make them as plain, “unseasoned” and as “undecorated” as we possibly can, CONSISTENT with the German language original (source). That is to say, we try to translate every single solitary concept, instead of ignoring, for instance, the many German words which are merely used for emphasis, which we generally translate as “indeed”, etc. So our approach is not that of a “normal” translation which is traditionally much more “smooth” English. The Goblet of Truth has not been "smoothed". We also strive to maintain the deeper etymological (word-roots) meanings of the words as much as we can, because words are very important – they point to ideas.
And ideas are VERY, VERY important.
The reason that I wrote that software translations, which are often simply WRONG, produced by someone inadequately familiar with the language(s) and the teachings might be bad for you or make you sick or whatever is because we all tend to focus on individual words/ideas when trying hard to understand these important texts, so translating, for instance, the word “grundlegend” (Grund-ground, legen-lie … “lieing/laying on the ground”) as “radical” - as I noticed in one of Benjamin’s most recent works – as opposed to “basic” (as in “base”) or “fundamental” (as in fundament/foundation, etc.) could be dangerously misleading if the meanings of the word "radical" were concentrated upon. It has to do with the two basic types of dictionaries, namely DEscriptive, which DESCRIBE a word as it is used, even when often used “incorrectly”, and PROscriptive, which PROSCRIBE (forbid/prohibit) all the common modern misuses. My favourite English dictionary is the (descriptive) Australian Macquarie Dictionary, which helpfully states, in some of its definitions, “correct through misuse”. Big German/English dictionaries’ long lists of English synonyms (the technical term for an inadequate synonym is “hyponym”) can be very dangerous. (I’ll try to avoid translators’ jargon, but I will use it here sometimes on this thread which is about translations.)
The biggest and most useful German-English dictionaries are usually also the descriptive type, which can mislead non-German speakers to choose words like “radical” instead of “fundamental”. And this is important. We must all fundamentally change our thinking, or we must all RADICALLY change our thinking? Quite a difference, I hope you will agree.
This is why I said that these gist translations made by people who do not know the language or the teachings might make you (figuratively) sick. I can’t stress this enough.
This morning I read IIG WEST’s sophistry about the Red Meteor/Apophsis, in which all they had was a software translation! YIKES!
And while I’m at it: PLEASE! those of you who write on this forum, “Billy (or Ptaah, etc.) said … such and such…(in ENGLISH)” be aware that Billy, etc., are speaking German. At least PLEASE let’s go back to the old forum rule that you AT THE VERY LEAST provide the references (the source of the info) and also the original German so it can be efficiently checked to see if it’s a translation misunderstanding. FIGU does not need to be bothered as a result of this primary level of confusion.
So while we’re all trying to correct our typos and spellings here, let’s also try to avoid all the slang, idioms, regionalism, dialects, and irony which is often misunderstood and is being cranked out like sausages here.
Finally, I’d love to see Benjamin join us here. I hope he at least reads us. I re-state that poor (unslanted) translations are better than no translations at all.
So stone the crows and don’t spit the dummy, cobbers. She’ll be apples! (Don’t ask. It’s untranslatable Australian slang.)
Cheers!
Dyson |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1627
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 03:16 am: |
|
Hi Dyson....
Excellently said!
Welcome back!
Am looking forward for Vivienne and your outstanding translations.
Benjamin, would indeed be a valuable asset!
Take Care...
Edward. |
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 170
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:40 am: |
|
I look forward to Benjamin and his machine translations as it satisfies my thirst for information at a steady pace. I read them fully knowing that they may contain the odd errors but they convey the overall meaning pretty well. I understand that people who are intelligent enough to search for and read Billy Meier’s contact report will automatically understand that.
I am sure FIGU realises the need to for quicker assimilation of the information in the contact notes by the English speaking world. That's why FIGU did not object to Benjamin's (who does not know German) "unofficial, unauthorised" translations.
IMO as long as there is no objection from FIGU, nobody should feel that their translation effort is unwelcome or, conversely, that their translations are too precious and they only have the moral higher ground in producing translations. That’s why I am really happy that Dyson welcomes Benjamin and would eagerly look forward to continue reading scores of Benjamin’s “speedy” translations and Dyson/Vivienne’s “normal, smooth” translations as well as Christian’s “usual, official” translations. Things cannot get better than this! 
Salome.
Suv
|
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 818
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 06:34 pm: |
|
Dear friends,
Just now (1:30 PM, Australian Eastern Daylight Time, Jan 6th), I emailed Vivienne’s translation – checked by me – of the excerpt from contact 481 in Special Bulletin 51, to Michael and James.
I’m sorry that there isn’t space anywhere on the FIGU forum anymore for authorised translations, because I really miss posting them here and I know everyone is impatient to read what Billy and Ptaah have to say in the Special Bulletins.
Maybe there could be a new thread specifically for that? We’ve got one for TWA-800.
Called, perhaps, “Authorised Translations”?
Does that sound good?
Cheers!
Dyson
P.S. I’ll comment on the science behind “atmosphere collapse” on the “Global Warming” thread. |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 819
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 06:43 pm: |
|
P.P.S.
I forgot to mention that 482 is already well underway and should be sent off soon.
Thanks,
Dyson |
Bianca
Member
Post Number: 55
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 03:31 am: |
|
Salome (= encompasses ALL my thoughts) and naturally welcome back Dyson and Vivienne!
Sorry to be the one to point it out but there is a small typo mistake in the Number of the Contact 481 vs 418 on the translation to Michae's site.
BTW, how are the Tasi apples?
Salome Bianca |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 822
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 02:09 pm: |
|
Hi Bianca!
Nice to be back, Thanks!
"Michae's site"?
I've made a FEW typos lately, (sorry!) and I noticed that bad one you point out last night (D’oh!) as well as a couple others in my little contribution to the Global Warming thread, which Michael also fixed. Haste makes waste.
Everything’s been fixed now, including substituting the word “realisation” for “reification” in 481, thanks to our dear Brazilian “Observer”.
So now I’m taking Michael’s wise advice to us here, and I’m writing these contributions in Word, then pasting them into the forum queue AFTER READING THEM. That should minimise things like writing the 6th, instead of the 26th. :-/
482 should surface late this afternoon, our time, if all goes well today.
We have also decided to translate the reader’s question about Switzerland’s xenophobic ban on minarets, so hold off on that one too, you guys. It has bearing on religious vilification in general (a topic covered in Mariann’s introduction to BEAM’s new book, which – we hope – will have our translation posted very soon) and the current French law banning burkas.
Back to work!
Cheers!
Dyson
P.S. Good to see the 1986 references from Quetzal about the WTC Massacre surfacing in the English-language world at long last. There is much more treasure to be dug up out of those German language texts! |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 823
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 07:26 pm: |
|
Dear friends,
I just sent the excerpt from contact 482 off to Michael and James. Vivienne and I pulled out all the stops and got it finished sooner than we anticipated.
After a small pause to catch our breath, we’ll also translate, as promised, the reader’s question about the Swiss referendum banning minarets.
I’m also writing a little bit on the Global Warming thread about why Billy uses such strong words to condemn the Copenhagen Climate Conference.
Cheers!
Dyson
P.S. Bianca, I forgot to mention that the apples here in Tasmania are the sweetest, freshest and cheapest this side of the DAL universe. ;-) |
Sanjin
Member
Post Number: 106
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 08:36 pm: |
|
Hi Dyson, how are you?
Could you, or anyone else, please tell me if these contradict:
42)And it is rightful and allowed for you, if you are not in a bond (married) to look for a man or a woman with all your means of uprightness and in a noble way, providing you do not commit any fornication and you enter into a bond (marriage) with the man or woman and found a clan (family);
31)And it is rightful if you are not in a bond (marriage) that you lie with (have sexual intercourse with) one another in confidential unity (mutual liking), if you do not yet have a wife or a husband (you are single) and you
have come of age (grown up), yet at the same time it shall be that a touchable companionship (open friendship) exists and not however a wild disorderliness (wild promiscuity) of changing partners with whom you lie (have sexual intercourse);
According to every dictionary I know, fornication means:
"Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other."
Basically it comes down to the fact that the word Unzucht was not translated properly. Unzucht signifies "immoral sexual acts/illicit sexual behavior/sexual offence".
What's more to it, is that fornication was actually translated wrong in the Bible. The original Greek word for this is porneia. It was translated into German properly as Unzucht, but not so in the English language. According to Wikipedia;
"In the New Testament, porneia is commonly translated incorrectly into English as fornication rather than its truer meaning of sexual immorality and is prohibited by the Apostolic Decree. In Biblical Greek, the word porneia meant "sexual immorality" or "sexual perversions." It was often used as a blanket term to encompass all sexual activity and even sexual thoughts (ie. sexual lust/fantasies) that were considered unrighteous by the laws of Leviticus."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornication
36.The human is another person, when, surrounded by the rays of the heavenly creational sunrise, the pure delight of awakening nature streams through him.
|
Indi
Member
Post Number: 385
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 09:54 pm: |
|
Fornication has another meaning other than having mutually consenting sex -- and that is having sex with a married person, where that behaviour will cause damage to the marriage of the other. In other words, adultery.
Robyn |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 98
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 10:13 pm: |
|
Sanjin;
Where are these from, or could you post the original German?
As far as I know, Billy makes a distinction between sexual-gratification acts and sexual-procreative acts -- and it is ideal (as it is among the Plejaren, if I am correct) that one must be in 'Bündnisliebe' with their husband/wife before they are permitted to marry; marriage is a prerequisite for legally procreating (having children), etc.
I think every conceivable question about sexuality is thoroughly answered in the book 'Gesetz der Liebe', in addition to all the information about the fundamental nature of love, etc. Billy even includes several diagrams (pictures) which help make the text totally understandable.
Peace;
- Gaia
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
|
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 827
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 01:13 am: |
|
Dear Sanjin,
I’ve never been better thanks. Yourself?
Before I have an attempt at your important question, let me ask everybody here to ease the workload by including the German original, or – at the very least – don’t force people to go searching for it, since the analysis must be done from the original German, particularly when it is a question of translation.
The KdW is very difficult in places, since it often uses somewhat archaic language, and, as Billy states, the meanings of many words are no longer understood properly, and words are now used incorrectly. This presents problems for us translators, as you can imagine. Do we render them “correctly”, or understandably? The (first 9 chapters of) the GoT is infinitely worse. Earth humans will be arguing about this book until doomsday. So I’d rather not get mired at this level, because – unless the Plejaren linguists involve themselves much more directly - I simply lack the required information to choose hyponyms, and these debates could take up all my time, which I’d rather use more productively. But I might be able to help a little, Sanjin, given my (relatively) fair understanding of the main body of Billy’s vast works.
You wrote, “Basically it comes down to the fact that the word Unzucht was not translated properly. Unzucht signifies ‘immoral sexual acts/illicit sexual behavior/sexual offence’.”
I think you’re right.
Our giant Wahrig German dictionary suggests that wounding is a component of “Unzucht”. Some English/German dictionaries offer “bawdiness”. Naturally, we are dealing with a sensitive issue, and I think the confusion in terminologies stems for the use of euphemisms for whatever specific sort of sexual behaviour was being frowned on by the local Powers-That-Be at the time and place of the use of the word. So pity the poor translator. What poor miserable English word would YOU choose for “Unzucht”?
My reading of KdW left me with the impression that appropriate (not wild, degenerate, perverse, etc., etc., etc.) coitus was permissible for an “engaged” couple.
There’s lots of other really interesting and useful reading in KdW, and the Plejaren also reportedly have better sex lives than we might imagine from what’s in English, but I’ll let people find out about that on their own, since a lot of this information might be easily misunderstood by us Earthlings, when taken out of context or translated half to pieces. Learn German. You’ll be glad you did.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
Dyson. |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 828
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:08 pm: |
|
Dear Gaia,
"As far as I know, Billy makes a distinction between sexual-gratification acts and sexual-procreative acts"
How do you mean? What sort of distinction?
Please site your sources, Gaia.
Salome,
Dyson |
Elreyjr
Member
Post Number: 91
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 02:44 pm: |
|
Greetings Dyson,
You said, "My reading of KdW left me with the impression that appropriate (not wild, degenerate, perverse, etc., etc., etc.) coitus was permissible for an “engaged” couple."
Do you think the above quote is equal to safe sex before marriage and is acceptable for as long the couple are engaged?
What happens when anyone of the couple renege/back-out from such engagement after intimate relation?
Forgive my ignorance.
Jun |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 831
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:58 pm: |
|
Dear Jun,
I’ll forgive your ignorance if you forgive mine. :-)
You wrote, “Do you think the above quote is equal to safe sex before marriage and is acceptable for as long the couple are engaged?” Yes, that’s what I think it’s saying. IF you REALLY love each other - like until you die - as opposed to just have the hots for each other.
You wrote, “What happens when anyone of the couple renege/back-out from such engagement after intimate relation?” Well, here on Planet Upsidedown, there is usually a lot of crying, often shouting, anger, bitterness, resentment, grief, “comfort” eating, pigging out on chocolate and/or alcohol, getting a regrettable haircut, etc. – that sort of thing.
Seriously, though – what “happens” is mostly determined by what the ex-participants choose to make happen. We are all responsible for all our own thoughts, words and deeds, even if we don’t know or accept that. When someone really understands and accepts this simple fact – and I mean REALLY – then things don’t seem to just “happen” so much anymore. If the engagement (which is a sort of trial run on marriage, isn’t it? to see if people really love one another?) fails, then what happens is we are presented with an excellent opportunity to learn from our mistake, which is why we make so many. Billy says (somewhere!) something like, “In order to do great things we have to make great mistakes.”
Semjase also says that love/wisdom is an inseparable duality, and it has been my personal experience that the best way to find true love is to work (through learning the truth) to gain knowledge, which can then be laboriously turned into wisdom. Then – after a long time sometimes – it DOES just SEEM to happen. Like MAGIC!
Of course most Earthlings now know that you can only get love if you give it away.
Incidentally, I’ve been thinking about my above (poorly thought out) remarks about the word UNZUCHT.
ZUCHT is easy. It pretty much means “breeding” in both senses of the word, both physical and social.
The German prefix “UN” is like English. “Unwise” is sort of the opposite of “wise”, etc.
So Unzucht suggests a lack of a proper upbringing. Being badly raised … UNraised.
Our dangerously heavy Wahrig German Dictionary says, of Unzucht: "das allgemeine Sittlichkeitsgefühl verletzende sexuelle Handlung", which sort of means “general morality-feeling wounding sexual behaviour" So it sort of relates to sexual behaviour which results in general wounding (offending) of the feelings of morality. Wahrig also states that it’s a "legal" term, no longer in use. I suppose that might be because modern people generally don’t like to think that there is any such thing as universal laws governing proper human morality.
I hope this has been instructive.
Cheers!
Dyson |
Techieatwork
Member
Post Number: 32
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 11:06 pm: |
|
"“What happens when anyone of the couple renege/back-out from such engagement after intimate relation?” Well, here on Planet Upsidedown, there is usually a lot of crying, often shouting, anger, bitterness, resentment, grief, “comfort” eating, pigging out on chocolate and/or alcohol, getting a regrettable haircut, etc. – that sort of thing."
That was so hilarious.
Thanks for the free laugh.
It's true too.
--
Salome
Carlos
|
Elreyjr
Member
Post Number: 92
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 09:55 am: |
|
Dear Dyson,
Indeed, it is very instructive. ie: Cause and Effect always, then evolution of spirit.
A couple of questions if I may. What is the Spirit Teaching about sex as oppose to the material/sensual aspect from Billy's materials, translated or otherwise?
Is there a good chance in the near future that Spirit Teaching (Lessons), available in German thus far, can be made available/translated in English, even partially? If not, I guess, the next best thing is to be buried in a German speaking country preparatory to my next incarnation and then grow-up learning the Language, and hope to have access to the materials just the same.
Jun |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 99
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 12:21 pm: |
|
'Unzucht' = 'Unchastity', or 'Unchastening'
Dialectical English-speakers, at this point in time, do tend to associate virginity or celibacy with the word chastity, but it literally just means (from the Complete Oxford English Dictionary, reproduced micrographically in its entirety, pg. 240):
Chastity
'1. a. Purity from unlawful sexual intercourse; continence.'
Continence (from page 325):
'I. Self-restraint.
1. Self-restraint, in regard to impulse, appetite, or desire.
2. spec. Self-restraint in the matter of sexual appetite, displayed either by due moderation or (as more frequently taken) by entire abstinence. (Sometimes identified with, sometimes distinguished from, CHASTITY.)'
Continent (pg. 325)
'I. Holding in, restraining.
1. Self-restraining, or marked by self-restraint, esp. in relation to bodily passions, appetites, or indulgences; temperate.'
2. spec. Characterized by self-restraint in the matter of sexual indulgence; chaste.'
Also;
Chaste (pg. 240)
'1. a. Pure from unlawful sexual intercourse; continent, virtuous. (Of persons, their lives, conduct, etc.)
1. v. trans To correct or amend by discipline; to discipline, train; to bring up under restraint.'
Peace;
- Gaia
P.S. Stephan said the following on the German FIGU-forum (http://forum.figu.org/de/messages/17/53.html?1223933930):
'Das Gesagte möchte ich an dieser Stelle noch etwas ausführen. Der Begriff Zucht ist ursprünglich in dem Sinne zu verstehen, wie man ihn heute beim züchten von Pflanzen benützt. Er beschreibt also das Ziehen, Hegen und Pflegen in Gewaltlosigkeit. Zucht halten bedeutet also, sich in Gewaltlosigkeit selbst zu erziehen.
Die heutzutage geläufige Begriffsverwendung stellt im Gegensatz dazu eine Einordnung in Gewaltsamkeit dar, wie dies z.B. beim Militär, der Schule und sogar der Familie der Fall ist. Zucht in dieser Falschbedeutung stützt sich also immer auf eine Form der Hirarchie.
Salome, Stephan
P.S. Steht sogar im etymologischen Wörterbuch'
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
|
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 101
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 03:50 pm: |
|
Dyson;
I am working on a translation from Genesis in answer to your question. I will post the appropriate portion(s) when I am finished (it will take me a few days, so please be patient).
Peace;
- Gaia
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
|
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 837
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 07:40 pm: |
|
Dear Gaia,
As it is said in OM: Blessed is he who has learnt to wait joyously. :-)
Having said that, would you please provide chapter and verse so I can know what you've got? Thanks.
re: Unzucht - I tend to agree with Stephan and disagree with your hyponym "chastity", which seems like a red-herring.
Salome,
Dyson |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 838
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 07:53 pm: |
|
Dear Jun,
You write, "What is the Spirit Teaching about sex as oppose to the material/sensual aspect from Billy's materials, translated or otherwise?" Short answer: Don't ask me. I'm not a FIGU member. BEAM also includes his openly available books as part of der Geisteslehre. I'm sure the two sources are 100% consistent. This is not a religious belief, but a logical deduction. People who know me will know that I have little patience with dogma on this forum.
"Is there a good chance in the near future that Spirit Teaching (Lessons), available in German thus far, can be made available/translated in English, even partially?" That, I can answer. Emphatically, no. No other terrestrial language is adequate.
What's wrong with using THIS incarnation to learn German? Get a head start! :-)
Cheers!
Dyson |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 841
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 10:17 pm: |
|
Dear all,
I just sent off our last planned translation from SB51 to our good friends Michael and James.
As previously mentioned, it’s all about a recent flagrant example of institutionalized Judeo/Christian (semi-legal) Islam bashing.
So what else is new? :-(
I'll go post something about it on the "Religion" thread.
I’ve now also decided to put my long and ongoing translation of “Gewalt und Krieg” (Violence and War) on the back burner while I turn my attention to the more timely 376th contact of February 3rd, 2005 (pages 204-207, to be exact) where Ptaah discusses at length and some depth the obvious and disgusting secret-service and private infiltration of this forum by all the usual disruptive lowlife (you know who you are) as well as their pathetic motivations, emotional inadequacies, and so on and so forth.
Further reading: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/figuforum.htm
It makes very enlightening reading.
Peace in wisdom,
Dyson |
|
