| Author |
Message |
   
Matt
Member
Post Number: 111
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 02:06 am: | 
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Sanjin = Plant ? |
Matt
Member
Post Number: 112
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 02:37 am: |
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A disinfo plant??? |
Robert_p
Member
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 04:20 am: |
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Hello Dyson,
Good to hear that you and Vivienne are doing well.
The older I get here on this prisonplanet - Planet Upsidedown, I am growing weary and quite fed-up and annoyed by all this never ending trouble making. I was thinking the other day, that I never create trouble in other peoples' lives and most importantly I don't go out of my way to create it in my own life. Well at least if I experience any trouble it usually is created by me from telling the truth. And nowadays that is a revolutionary act! And we all know that in this crazy place, everything is backwards.....War is peace, good people are bad people, Grandma is a terrorist and should be tazered, and the grandkids should be waterboarded. Melamine is nutritious and good for you, Mercury is good for your brain. Drink your fluoride and stay quite. Like I told the American's on a web forum...we are not fighting a war on terror...We are fighting a war against lies and stupidity.
A small minority of people on this planet create a large majority of the problems.
You are right about nature of consciousness (a.k.a. spiritual) evolution is that the problems never cease, you just get bigger and more challenging ones!
Bye for now,
Bob  |
Ramirez
Member
Post Number: 378
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 07:04 am: |
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Dear Dyson,
Maybe with you the difficulty in resolving some issues connected with translations lies in a mindset somewhat fastened to an ideal of relative perfection.
To plain old or young most of the others Benjamin's translations are more than adequate, the overall drift and meaning is abundantly clear, the standard is excellent and for the greater part these contact reports are mainly history lessons providing a series of solid reference points and counter facts against which historical or religious assertions might be compared. Additionally there are spirit lessons and a peculiar sense of humor running through the works as desert so all up for the deprived contact reports are magic.
Translations even if not totally perfect serve their purpose well finally making available a steady stream of highly valuable information in English.
If there could be a particular order for translations maybe you guys should consider translating as a matter of priority each new contact (there is only one each month) so the most up to date therefore probably immediately socially relevant and important material becomes available soon after delivery .... we get the breaking headlines.
As for the couple others who might intervene sporadically with various distractions .... their words are just words on a page same as yours but you and Benjamin deliver the goods .... that's what matters, the actual output of tangible material which you guys have a track record of delivering.
This concept of assigning a meaningful reality to the distractor's exists in your mind for you interact solely with words on a page as though they have a power to alter your consciousness but in reality this will only be the case if you take the bait and allow an emotional content to arise ..... and their occasional words are only bait dangled on a page to lure you into distraction.
There's no need to keep watch or something at bay for the bait is as irrelevant as the ramblings of religion. The holy papa gotta sell something so he sells a concept which in reality is nothing except that which the faithful create in their minds as the illusion of god and the distractor's similarly create an illusion. There's no struggle involved unless you choose to empower someone else's words on a page. Intelligent persons with an active mind have weak spots and these are sometimes cunningly exploited by others with an agenda.
Read the bible .... after that you might really have a struggle .... retaining your sanity  but dont bother with some of the rambling trash that occasionally finds it's way onto pages here dressed up as profound intellectual discourse.
If the world's going to fall apart or whatever ..... lets get those translations cranked out.
Cheers.
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Bennyray37
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 07:08 am: |
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Well, Dyson, that was quite a response. I’m not too sure how to respond to it, if I can at all…. One thing I can say is that I have learned quite a bit of German words during this process, simply meaning that I can look at a particular German word and state its English counterpart, based on what the software programs and dictionaries have constantly been telling me. Forming my own sentences and holding a conversation in German, however, is something that I wouldn’t be able to do. I guess I don’t have such a complicated approach towards the German language as you do. I’ve mentioned on my site that knowing the general meaning of a phrase or sentence is sufficient for me, and usually, the different software programs and dictionary supplements always seem to give me that, while agreeing with each other many times. This is basically the only way I know how to teach myself German, by using such resource tools and observing the sentence structures of Meier and the Plejarens, which I always assume are in proper format for the German language. That’s about as far and as deep as I can go right now. I would probably have to take college courses on German to go any further than that, and even though my current process takes a long time, the college course route would likely take even more time, plus money which I don’t have.
Two particular words that I have been curious about for a long time are “Schnudderbueben” and “Schnuddermeitli.” They were stated by Meier during the 150th Contact Conversation, after Quetzal’s 186th sentence, and I still haven’t been able to find English counterparts for these. Would you be able to give me the proper English words for these?
Regards.
--
Benjamin Stevens
PS – Thanks for the flowers, Bruce. Your comments that you regularly post on my site always make me smile. |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 389
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 08:58 am: |
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Hi Ben
whilst awaiting Dyson's reply, might I offer that I would hazard a guess that those two words are the Swiss terms for the previous ones in the sentence (Lausbuben und Lausmädchen) -- in other words impudent/rascalish young men and young women.
Robyn |
Earthling
Member
Post Number: 374
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 09:25 am: |
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Ramirez .. regarding your post #378 - well said ... very well said.
Naturally, I concur .. completely. |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 875
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 11:58 am: |
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Hi everybody!
Dear Matt, It's best not to jump to conclusions. Sometimes a cigar is only a cigar. It's sometimes difficult for a translator to translate the sense of a word or idea accurately if it goes hard against her or his ego. In extreme cases, it seems as if some people will even stubbornly insist that A "=" X simply because that's what they so badly want/need. Also, we are mostly faceless folks here who could be 9 or 90.
Dear Bob, You left out, "If you want to get sick, go to a doctor, if you want to get molested, go to a priest, if you want to get beaten up, go to the police, and if you want to get ignorant, go to a university." ;-) But the teachings of the truth say: if you want to find knowledge, love and wisdom - all we are left with when we die - seek the truth.
Dear Ramirez, Striving for relative perfection is what life's all about, but if you notice all my typos here, you'll see that I am by no means obsessive, and I just do my best to balance quality and quantity. The PROBLEM is that - if you don't speak German (and if you did, you wouldn't be reading a translation in the first place) - then it is simply, logically, utterly, impossible to KNOW whether it is a correct translation or quite incorrect and dangerously misleading. This applies to all non-German speakers, and translators who must rely on software are similarly disadvantaged, although the painstaking method our friend Benjamin employs narrows the odds a lot, without entirely solving the problem. I'm always amused and a little disturbed when someone who does not know both languages really well judges the quality of a translation. Ramirez, if you had ANY idea how many hours I have spent trying to help unhappy people who are screwing up their whole lives really badly, when trying honestly to follow Billy's wrongly translated teachings, you'd understand that I'm trying to save myself work, not to mention fight for the truth - something we should all be doing - and keep people from hurting themselves. The recent Great Unzucht Debate is a classic example. Misguided people would not realise that the teachings do not prohibit premarital coitus. (Think about it.) It's easy to say, "Don't take their bait." But if you knew how damaging this s..t was to people who believe it, you would not only understand why I'm so antagonistic to this trampling of the truth, but also why the teachings are so antagonistic towards belief. We should not let major errors of fact here go uncorrected, especially if they are like what the New Testament's Gospel of Matthew did to the Talmud Jmmanuel. As far as translating the contacts as they appear is concerned - well, for instance, there's one contact which takes up most of one of the books. I can't remember which, but it went on for many hours. And I have no privileged early access to the published material. I have to buy it, or download it like everybody else. (I'm hanging out for book ten at the moment, and will share the pearls.) And the contacts are a relatively poor source of information compared with Billy's books, from which I have many excerpts earmarked for the future.
Dear Benjamin, You don't have to go to college/university (see above). Do what Vivienne and I did and become an autodidact. (teach yourself) I think it's the very best way to learn. You're obviously bright and hard-working. Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. My niece is a mad "Stargate" fan and has always been trying to lend us the TV series on DVD. Aside from watching fiction for anthropological research purposes, we seldom make the time. But we relented and were delighted to discover that you can watch all these TV shows dubbed into excellent, clear, precise, non-idiomatic German! Even get English subtitles, which often are far from what's being spoken. A terrific way of increasing your German power. Interestingly, the theme of this series is "the gods of earth were (ET) humans" http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/GodsHuman.htm You write," I can look at a particular German word and state its English counterpart, based on what the software programs and dictionaries have constantly been telling me." But there's no CONTEXT provided for you. Context is vital. A word means one thing in one sentence and another thing in another. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/funnyenglish.htm Even commas are really important. "Let's eat, Grandma!" means one thing. "Let's eat Grandma!" means something else entirely! You write, "I don’t have such a complicated approach towards the German language as you do." That's like when someone who knows nothing about cars sees me checking the oil and topping it up says, "I don’t have such a complicated approach towards cars as you do." You just know that this person's engine is eventually going to seize up. Let me reiterate that you are providing a valuable service and will get a line in the history books as the man who was the first to make this material available in bulk to the English-speaking world, but not the last. Moving right along ... “Schnudderbueben” and “Schnuddermeitli” it's SWISS! Ha ha! Schnudder=snot. Beuben=Buben=lads/boys. Meitli(Mädlein)=Mädchen=little girls. So “Schnudderbueben” and “Schnuddermeitli” means "snotty-nosed little boys and girls". The Swiss dialect can be back-engineered sometimes by pronouncing the word in your head and trying to decipher the sound. The "li" suffix (word-ending) is Swiss for "lein", which is one of the two German diminutives (means makes the root word "small")- along with "chen" The Swiss like to use it (li) for everything, the same way Australians say, "The trucky ate vegies as he passed the bikey on the way to the barbie." (The truck driver ate vegetables as he passed the motorcyclist on the way to the barbecue.) Germans find all dialects funny (except the one from their own region, of course) and Swiss is the most hilarious of all. German-speakers also find English funny, ugly and rude sounding. The "th" sound is particularly vulgar because you have to expose your tongue. (They overlook the German "ch" sound which English-speakers think sounds like throat-clearing.)
I'm curious, Benjamin. Did you read as much of the English translations as you could get your hands on? Listen to the Winters material? You obviously bought the contact books.
Keep yer chin up, mate. We're all in this together! :-)
Cheers!
Dyson |
Bennyray37
New member
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 01:55 pm: |
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Thanks Robyn and Dyson for the remarks. I’ve made the changes to my site.
To answer Dyson’s question, I did, indeed, read as much of the English translations that I could get my hands on before starting this project. In fact, I slowly had to spend thousands of dollars over the course of several years in order to acquire all of the available English materials, such as Wendelle’s out-of-print books, Winter’s writings and tapes, Moosbrugger’s book, etc. I do think that reading all of these materials was very valuable in letting me gain a familiarity with what Meier and the Plejarens teach and that this has helped me a lot in the translating process. Actually, once I finally obtained all of the available English materials and read them, I didn’t know what else to do with myself, so once I discovered how well many of the translation software programs seem to work, I decided to begin this project, so that there would be more available English material for me and others to read.
Regards.
--
Benjamin Stevens |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 885
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 08:44 pm: |
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Dear Benjamin,
Winters' stuff is laced with poison. Beware!
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/randywinters.htm
It contains an excerpt of a transcript I made from “The Pleiadian Mission” with Randolph Winters April 1998 ©1998 Gavegin Production
Know your enemy,
Dyson |
Elreyjr
Member
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 02:12 pm: |
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Greetings Benjamin,
May the fire in your mission continue to burn so we could also feel the heat from Billy's materials.
How about some excerpts from the teaching of the Spirit as part of our discussion. Marriane has just higlighted some thru the kindness of Dyson at the Human Relationship topic area.
Jun |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 893
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 06:14 pm: |
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Dear Gaia (et al),
As promised, I offer a few tips about translations, in light of your effort of February 3rd, over on the "Human Relationships" thread.
Naturally you are free to reject the constructive suggestion I made to you and Sanjin about the inadvisability of trying to produce worthy translations of the texts at the position you are, on your learning curve, at the moment. But I suggest to you and others that - when you find something that looks interesting and important in the German language material - before going to the premature (great) effort of trying to translate the whole thing, maybe just state its assumed gist and provide the specific details as to the source, and someone who speaks German here can then go take a look at it and either get back to you with more info, or simply volunteer to do the translation. I don't mean to sound harsh. It's not my intent. But the time I make fixing up translation-error-related misunderstandings gets directly subtracted from the time I make to do authorised translations. So, since your intent is to get the Meier material out there, it's actually more efficient if you wait until you are further along in your studies. Logical? :-)
I've spoken of the "source language" and "target language", being, in this case, the German and English languages respectively.
I've noticed, after a very quick look on your website, that you show common grammatical errors in your target language, and it's this topic I'll focus on here. No. I'm not "perfect" either! :-/ I'm not talking about comma and preposition placement.
Mariann has been very helpful to Vivienne and me recently in furthering our limited understanding of FIGU's attitude towards the English language official translations, since we're working on our first at the moment. It's been an interesting eye-opener to try to view it from that perspective, in spite of the fact that V & I have been immersing ourselves, almost full time, in this narrow corner of linguistics for several years. (We speak German at home.) FIGU has access to linguistic information, through Billy and his contacts, which the rest of us lack, so FIGU is in a position to "correct" various traditional English word usages and widely accepted dictionary definitions. The rest of us are not in that privileged position so we have an obligation to try to stick to the rules (such as they are) of "English" English as much as we can, in order to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
I won't set a precedent and dissect/redo your translation. I really don't want to take the time away from my work, nor open a can of worms. Suffice it to say that it is always a good idea not to resort to idiosyncratic neologisms (words invented by yourself) in order to try to compensate for an inadequate hyponym (hyponym=inadequate target synonym [so an inadequate hyponym is an inadequately inadequate synonym!]). A salient example is "lawly". Sometimes we just have grit our teeth and do what translators call "compensate" when a single hyponym cannot be found. That means that a whole phrase like "of or pertaining to" might have to be introduced in order deal with a simple German suffix. Don't fear this. It has to be done. Likewise, offering the reader a series of suggestions is not an intellectually courageous approach, in spite of the KdW, which I see as a special case. Even OM avoids it, and it's not fair to your readers, who are usually less qualified to chose from a list than you are. Similarly, "nor" is preferable to "as also not", etc. You're neologism, "partneress" attempts to deal with German genders for nouns, and are not generally required in English, where we understand that "teachers", "doctors", "partners", and so on, can be either female or male. In this regard, German is more awkward, albeit less chauvinistic.
FIGU is currently making moves to address the sex-bias in English with various weird-seeming (to us) approaches which I'm sure we'll hear more about soon enough.
"Thinking German Translations" (Hervey, Loughridge and Higgins) is a very good little book for people who want to make a career out of being a translator, but it's not for beginners, who are well-advised to stay away from translating until very much further along. And, I repeat, this is particularly the case with Billy's texts. In spite of the fact that I started translating Billy's texts long before I really should have, because I saw it as an unaddressed emergency, at that stage I already spoke German fluently, and spent about 6 months in Germany before I migrated to Melbourne, speaking no English at all, (after about three years, largely working alone as a technician in a mobile USAF ATC radar unit) speaking very little English, to the point that I'd practically forgotten how to DO it when I boarded the migrant ship! It was quite odd!
For those of you who are at an advanced level, and want to translate: beware. If you concentrate too much on mastering the source language (as Vivienne and I tend to do - an example of positive degeneration) you will forget what "sounds right", in the target language, when translating.
Please think seriously about my well-meant guidance about publishing translations here, Gaia, at your stage of competence. Please. If you really want to help the mission, the best way you can help get the truth out is to wait. Thanks. I hope you take this in the spirit in which I mean it.
Peace in wisdom,
Dyson |
Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 145
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 07:59 pm: |
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Hello,
Considering all the more and less recent rules and posts...
Has this definitely turned into the "no translations, please" section?
David
"There can be no tyrants where there are no slaves." José Rizal
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Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 103
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 09:28 pm: |
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Dyson;
I will be fully fluent before long; additionally, I take full responsibility for any inaccuracies within my work, and as it is my intention to re-read and edit all of my work as I improve, you need not endeavor to do so yourself. Thank you for your input, however.
I'm not sure why you think I invented the word 'lawly'. Do you own The Complete Oxford English Dictionary?
Upon page 948 of 'The Complete Oxford English Dictionary; reproduced micrographically in its entirety' is says:
Lawly: A. adj. Lawful. B. adv. In a lawful manner; lawfully.
This really is the best dictionary for English English. Of course, I also have Websters' Third New International Dictionary (unabridged), The Macquarie Dictionary, the Wahrig, the Oxford-Duden German Dictionary (German to English, English to German), and the Langenscheidt Compact German Dictionary (again, German to English, English to German). Quite simply, though, I will just say that you and I are unlikely to ever agree 100% on how English should be spoken/written.
I agree with Noam Chomsky that the only boundary of a language is its grammar. As far as I see it, the chief reason there is such stagnancy in Modern English dialects is because the people who speak them refuse to use English in a flexible, self-intelligible way. Put another way: most modern English speakers are damn near illiterate. Due to their rigidity, and lack of knowledge, regarding language, I would say they are doomed to their stagnation. Oh well.
Additionally, I would note that German shares many similarities with English, and as a rather literate English-user I am finding German very easy to learn.
Peace;
- Gaia
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 896
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 10:35 am: |
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Yes, David,
Our authorised FIGU translations were banned here on the authorised FIGU forum "Translations" thread last year. :-) (??)
We now send them to Michael Horn and James Moore.
-------------------------------
Thanks, Gaia,
I've got far too may dictionaries. I didn't look up lawly, partneress, etc. Since I'd never seen them, I knew that the vast majority of other readers would be in the same situation. As you know, the idea is to render the source language into something understandable. I see your position as - in effect - taking responsibility for being irresponsible, but I do urge you to continue to do it just the way you do so your works remain so distinctive and easily recognisable.
Salome,
Dyson |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 11:16 pm: |
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Dyson;
There have been recent research studies in the UK which reveal that the average young adult (age 13-25) uses less than 800 words in their day-to-day vocabulary. Perhaps they are loosely familiar with a few thousand more than that, but if one knows even 30,000 words, one knows many, many more words than the majority of mankind. I am not staking my hopes for the future in those who are so uncultivated that they cannot comprehend basic literary English.
If you'd like to address irresponsibility, Dyson, I find it very irresponsible for someone such as you, who is respected and relied upon by a large number of English-dialect-speaking people, to make unsubstantiated statements about the spiritual-teaching prohibiting something such as anal sex -- which is the chief form of sexual-contact practiced among gay men, who represent a rather sizable sub-community on this planet.
Little mistakes made by those who bear clout in this regard have the potential to evoke huge psychological and social repercussions. It also could cast FIGU's image in a poor light with regard to homosexuality.
Also, it seems to me that English-dialect-speaking people have been given the impression that Billy's works are in simple layman's terminology, such that they should never need to check a dictionary for clarification. Although it is true that the German which Billy uses makes his work very self-intelligible, his books certainly are not written akin to the 'simple English' wikipedia articles, for instance.
Billy's writing is full of depth and profound insight which must be meditated over and studied continuously throughout life, repeatedly turned over in one's mind, thoroughly examined, etc. -- and there is certainly more than any of us will get through in the course of a single life.
Peace;
- Gaia
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
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Bronzedesk
Member
Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 07:08 am: |
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"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
~ St. Augustine
p.s. Know this and believe:
Things do not change; we change.
~Henry David Thoreau
First you forget names, then you forget faces. Next you forget to pull your zipper up and finally, you forget to pull it down. George Burns
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 147
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 11:28 am: |
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Gaia,
Did you also notice that you were able to express your point of view in clear, concise and...easily understandable language, without compromising your meaning?
"More" isn't always better. |
Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 902
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 03:22 pm: |
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Dear Gaia, (et al)
For some years now, I've been the only volunteer on this English language forum who has read all the FIGU German language books and also makes a regular effort to try to answer everyone's many questions about the contents of the German language texts - to the very best of my limited ability. When I wrote, "I seem to remember...", it is because I seemed to remember prohibitions from Billy concerning anal sex. I would have been wrong if I had unequivocally stated that they were "creational" laws, in the sense that there are strict creational prohibitions about child-sex and rape, for instance. But I apologised for potentially misleading people. Nevertheless, there are, as I wrote yesterday, stern health warnings from Billy associated with anal sex. And, as I say again and again, these many thousands of pages of Billy's openly published texts are NOT INDEXED. I'm bound to have faulty memories about SOME of the specifics I try to help people with here. I also say again and again, "Don't just believe. Do your own research." And it's not a contest here, either, Gaia. If you view something I do as being irresponsible, please do point it out, but please don't then proceed to insinuate that because anal sex does not happen to be my thing, that I'm a gay-basher. :-/
And I have a very low tolerance of being scolded hypocritically.
Here's what you posted on January 28th, being your 99th contribution: (quote)'Unzucht' = 'Unchastity', or 'Unchastening' (unquote)
You made absolutely no qualification whatsoever. If fact, you even used an "EQUAL" sign! You then proceed to waste 160 words dissecting the wrong word.
I wrote, "Mariann has pointed out, in her emails to Sanjin, that the preferred hyponym for unchastity is not Unzuct, but Unkeuschheit, (as per English-German dictionaries). It's pretty straightforward." http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/10787.html?1265180863
I wonder if you ever did look up the word "unchastity" in a German/English dictionary. You certainly never apologised to the forum for your authoritative-sounding (erroneous) information. You never even acknowledged that you made a mistake. What's so bad about making mistakes? Applying your same (lack of) logic, you have deprived countless engaged couples the joys of coitus, since being chaste is commonly associated with not having sex before marriage. How COULD you, Gaia!? How cruelly irresponsible of you! (What a drama. Give me a break.)
And to what, exactly, ARE you referring, in your repeated references, on this forum, to the "Complete Oxford English Dictionary"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Complete+Oxford+English+Dictionary&sourceid=Mozilla-search
As to translations in general, which is - after all - the name of this thread. Michael, as usual, has made the point. But let me try to explain the logic behind it again to you, Gaia, because there seems to be a very fundamental lack of very basic understanding about this topic of translations, in so far as vocabulary is concerned. And I mean "fundamental", as in - the very foundation upon which the idea of translating is based.
Yes, of course you need the biggest and most comprehensive dictionaries you can buy for your source language (German), but
THIS IS NOT A SCRABBLE GAME!
(Yes, I have raised my voice. Because there is a time for bellowing, and this is it.)
Let me calmly and quietly try to make this as clear as I can.
Translating is based upon relaying the ideas in the source language accurately and understandably to the readers of the target language.
Translating is based upon relaying the ideas in the source language accurately and understandably to the readers of the target language.
I do not dumb down my translations. I even argue (amicably) with my good friend Michael about some of the abstruse and erudite words we use to try to translate the texts in the best possible way. But unabridged dictionaries are just that, unabridged. The Oxford English Dictionary prides itself on being right up to date with all the words, and their various usages/definitions, in the entire English language, and - once a word finds it's way into their dictionary - IT IS NEVER REMOVED. So every obsolete, archaic, ephemeral and goofy word ever used remains there, like a fly in amber, FOREVER. A reality check here please. OK? This does not mean that every word ever used in the English language is appropriate for employment in a translation of Billy' Meier's texts. Clear? Do you understand why that is?
Do you seriously expect your readers to own the OED, Gaia?
I do expect my readers to have access to good dictionaries, because my translations are on line, but I don't ask more than that.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=lawly&go=Define
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=lawly&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lawly
And for you to do so, indicates that you have no idea about what translating is all about in the first place, not to mention being obviously, laughably, irresponsibly incompetent at your current stage of development.
I'm not angry with you, dear Gaia. I'm not upset by your forgivable ignorance and public arrogance, nor am I trying to embarrass you publicly with it. I'm just trying to point out your breathtaking hypocrisy to you and also help any prospective translators of Billy's texts to do the right thing, because simple matters which I see as plain common sense seem not to be understood in the slightest, so I make the effort to shed some light on these topics for those who have eyes to see. But there are none so blind as those who will not see. And, speaking of flies in amber, the work you publish now, at your current stage, WILL come back to bite you painfully in the backside in years to come, (even if you return to it and try to repair it some time in the future) and I'll bet you cringe with embarrassment when you read it. I do NOW when I read it, and I'm quite certain I'm not the only one.
Salome,
Dyson |
Markcampbell
Member
Post Number: 366
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:55 pm: |
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Dear Gaiawingz ;
Dyson's statement is substantiated by the Goblet of Truth , which is the reference he gave , I'm sure .
Kind Regards , Mark |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 105
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 10:56 pm: |
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Mark;
Thanks for proving my point quite precisely.
Also, Dyson alluded to OM, not the Goblet of Truth.
Billy doesn't seem prone to contradicting himself; but prove me wrong if you can.
Dyson;
Billy stresses strict sexual hygiene for any sexual contact. Furthermore, I was not inferring that you were a gay basher, I simply chose gay men as an example because they are the most obvious. There are plenty of heterosexual women and men who engage in anal sex as well.
I do not think I will cringe over my work; nor feel humiliated, but thank you for informing me of your opinion. Since you enjoy accusing me of hypocrisy, I welcome you to substantiate your claim with factual evidence; although unless it is related to something with FIGU, this forum doesn't seem the place to do so.
You seem very, very defensive and hostile toward me simply because I pointed out that it is irresponsible for you to not think through your statements about what may be in the spirit teaching, because of the very fact that you have a history here, you are respected by many, and you are relied upon by many. Just look at Markcampbell's 366th post -- he still thinks you are correct about what you said, even though you publically recanted.
Do you understand?
In answer to your question about the Oxford English Dictionary -- as you know, it is not the only one I own. Today I added The Macquarie Dictionary of Austrailian Colloquial Language to my collection as well. Regardless of what dictionary you have or have not, though, I already stated that I find that the only boundary of a language is its grammar.
The reason I bring up the OED is because it has been established that translations into English should be according to English English, and while the OED does contain many old words, it is also the English English dictionary, with the English definitions and usages of -all- the English words.
Also, I will not recant or apologize for stating that Unzucht is equivalent to Unchaste or Unchastity. I maintain that this is a truly matching word -- and you finally acknowledged that it worked, but only 'archaically' -- you also declared you didn't want to 'get into that level of detail' and that maybe you just wouldn't try to translate it at all, as has been done with other words. Furthermore, I maintain that Unchaste or Unchastity is far better than fornication.
The problem is simply that, as I said, most English-dialect speakers are pretty much illiterate. English is a rich literary language, but you have to read avidly and study the dictionary to comprehensively understand it. One must also accept the flexibility which is granted to English by its grammar; but the masses don't (and won't) do that, either.
So, I leave them to their stagnancy.
Also, a fly in amber certainly will not last forever. Nothing will last forever. Although, every thought and action that you have in your entire life will be remembered by the Creation, and someday it will all be accessible to our descendants (both physical and spiritual) -- so perhaps you should consider that.
Now, Dyson, if you can do more than shout about what a hypocrite I am (and I'm not, but again, if you've got real evidence of it, do bring it forth) -- I encourage you to respond to me appropriately. If you cannot reign in your emotions, though, I will cease responding to you publically.
Peace;
- Gaia
P.S -- you wrote that I made 'authoritative' sounding statements, and I will agree that I do generally write with an air of certainty, which could be construed as authoritative by some. The difference between you making false-statements and me choosing to translate in a certain style, and perhaps with different words than you would employ, is that I do not bear myself as an authority of the matter. I translate according to my preference as a literate English-user, not out of a desire to communicate with people who use less than 800 words daily.
Furthermore, if you look through my posts, I think you will find that any time I have stated something about what I have read or learned from one of Billy's books, I have been correct in my statement. Certainly, I have not made many statements, and unlike others on this forum I do not rampantly post in every single thread which is active, but that has more to do with my theory that quality (and also, being correct) is more important than quantity.
I'm a very pedantic person, Dyson. In addition to a great memory for details, I also check my sources and stay silent unless I am certain that whatever statements I make can be backed up with proof.
You are very haughty about making sure that people know that you are an 'authorized' preliminary translator of Billy's work -- and that's fine, but as such you are relied upon, and trusted, by those who read this forum a great deal more than I am. You bear even greater responsibility for your statements, especially those which are unsourced, about what is in Billy's books than I do as a result.
Additionally, I find it very amusing that you simultaneously describe yourself as a self-taught amateur, then liken your translating skills to those of a classically-trained master pianist. Which one are you?
gaiawingz.wordpress.com
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Sitkaa
Member
Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 06:26 am: |
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I like the OED - it is the only dictionary really worth having (okay, maybe the New Century as well...). The OED is definitive, shows etiology, and provides classical examples. At a time when people and culture are being (deliberately) simplified such what was formerly commonplace has become abstruse, the OED bucks the trend. The only problem with the OED is that it doesn't have enough detail. And now it has moved to an entirely electronic format. I will always enjoy pulling a ten pound volume off the shelf, flipping its paper-thin pages, and making my way through the small type in order to make exact sense of some definition. Particularly for fundamental legal terms, the OED works better than even Black's Law.
Love is always the way
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Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 1927
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 07:03 am: |
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Gaia & Dyson,
Please continue this discussion if you choose between the both of you via e-mail or some other means.
Thanks
Scott |
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