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Archive through February 26, 2010

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Jonzie
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Post Number: 51
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'laying in the salts' - exposed without protection
'end up in the bush' - overshadowed, unable to grow, unfruitful

"Now, I can't get the missing data, I also can't just just leave the two of them [exposed] because if I can't calculate the data for them, then it means both of them will inevitably be overshadowed [by untruths, misunderstood, attributed false properties]
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Markcampbell
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Post Number: 381
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It should be obvious that 'salts' and 'bush' are colloquialisms / slang .

MC
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 970
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

Important corrections.

When, over on the German Books and Booklets thread, I wrote,

(Billy) Und was hältst du davon, dass ein Vergleich mit Jim Jones hergestellt würde?

I SHOULD have written,

(Billy) Und was hältst du davon, dass ein Vergleich mit Jim Jones hergestellt wurde?

THAT explains a lot, and I'm very sorry that neither I nor others picked that up before! My apologies!

Likewise, when I wrote that Florena said something to the effect that "The Americans believe that wisdom should be fed to them with a spoon." I was too hasty with that idiom. I should have translated it more like this: "The Americans think they know a lot, but they don't"

And (finally, I hope!) I also rushed and misinterpreted a sentence in the texts to mean that Ptaah suggested that the texts to do with USA-related troubles be openly published by FIGU Switzerland, but - in reality - he said nothing of the kind. Actually he suggested that the FSUSA group have it published in their newsletter. That's a bad one, and - again - I'm sorry. That was on the Misc. thread.

At least, as a disclaimer, I included, "So some of the below, as quick first impressions, may well be subject to correction and elaboration at a future date. Please don't just take my word that it is 100% accurate." :-/

Moral of this story - not, "He who hesitates is lost", but "Haste makes waste" - which is why you'll just have to wait for a while for more translations.

(Jonzie - I'm really impressed! :-] Are you Swiss? How did you do this? Are you as sure as you sound? Please explain and give us the German too, thanks.)

Cheers!
Dyson
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Bennyray37
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Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mark,

I am confident that most people who would see the phrases “lying in the salts” and “end up in the bush” would understand that Meier wasn’t speaking literally and, thus, was using an idiom or a colloquialism, as you say. However, I am not sure if everyone would understand what those phrases mean, especially since I myself wasn’t entirely sure of the their meaning.

Based on Jonzie’s posted information, here is how I presently have it.

“Now, I can’t get the missing data, and I also can’t just leave the two of them out of this because if I can’t calculate the data for them, then it means for both of them that they will inevitably be unfruitful.”

“Nun, ich kann die fehlenden Daten nicht erhalten, und im Salze liegenlassen kann ich die beiden auch nicht, denn wenn ich ihnen die Daten nicht errechnen kann, dann bedeutet dies für die beiden, dass sie unweigerlich im Busch landen.”

--
Benjamin Stevens
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Phenix
Member

Post Number: 323
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the more to your honour, dear Dyson!

Thanks for your work and dedication.


Salome,
Adam.
www.thecircleforhumanity.net
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 382
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Benjamin, fwiw I much prefer your original, more prosaic translation -

“lying in the salts” and “end up in the bush”.

It seems more characteristic of Billy's use of language. And it forces the reader to use a bit of gray matter.
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Jonzie
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Post Number: 53
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To answer you, no I am not Swiss. My only claim can be that I love ancient history to a fault. To read the history itself [not just someone’s interpretation of it], one must be grossly familiar in a multitude of languages. I am master of none but have an extremely good memory of many. The biggest observation I have ever made of English/German, German/English is that often the English equal is taken from the point of the person trying to receive something while the German equal is taken from the point of a person trying to give something.

An example: in the bush

German saying: Auf den Busch klopfen. (Lit: to beat on the bush)
To prod somebody verbally to get them to spill something they did really want to keep secret.
English version: "To beat about the bush" which would be to avoid speaking about something.
auf den Busch [klopfen] pump for information

This is only an example. In the two sayings, the German is trying to get the information, the English is trying to keep it a secret. In both cases, the general meaning is: the information is there but fruitless - not shared, not understood, just out of grasp, hidden in a shadowy way, stuck in the bush/lost. A great effort must be made to gain the information or … the interaction was fruitless, nothing was gained, unfruitful.

(My English is not good sometimes. I have a bad habit of repeating the same thing many times or many ways so my own meaning is understood. Please forgive this.)

End up in the bush, in English, has multiple equivalent slangs all of which mean ‘lost’ or unfruitful: {go beyond civilization} end up nowhere, overshadowed, out of grasp {bird in the hand is worth two in the bush}, empty-handed, zero gain, nothing/fruitless, to be undecided what to do about something, ‘lost’, {stuck in the bush} etc. All express lack of gain, unfruitfulness.

So for Billy’s expression of End up in the bush, I think he is clearly saying and/or meaning fruitless, unfruitful, nothing gained even if the information is right at hand.

I hope this made sense. If this an error, it is strictly my own and I apologize.

LAY IN THE SALT -

This means to put out/expose something as if you are going to preserve it. This is the best English equal I can give. The German opposite meaning is: to lay something out and not give damn about what happens to it, not care, leave it to rot, leave it exposed,

sich nicht um etw kümmern etw liegen lassen etw nicht erledigen ...
sich einen Dreck kümmern [vulg]. sich in Dunst auflösen, to go up in smoke ..... Salz in die Wunde reiben

are not to worry about, not to do ...
does not give a shit [vulg]. dissolve into thin air, to go up in smoke ..... Rub salt into the wound

I again hope this made sense how I came to the conclusions of German/English, English German. They are opposite view languages.

When I read that Billy said: und im Salze liegenlassen
Lay in the salt, I understood it to mean uncareful exposure, exposed to added harm. I understood the German slang meaning.

Man, I hope this is clear. Again, I am not Swiss; just a person who likes histories. Again, if the understanding is in error, it is my own fault.

“Now, I can’t get the missing data, and I also can’t just leave the two of them lying in the salts because if I can’t calculate the data for them, then it means for both of them that they will inevitably land in the bush.”

“Nun, ich kann die fehlenden Daten nicht erhalten, und im Salze liegenlassen kann ich die beiden auch nicht, denn wenn ich ihnen die Daten nicht errechnen kann, dann bedeutet dies für die beiden, dass sie unweigerlich im Busch landen.”

“Now, I can’t get the missing data, and I also can’t just leave the two of them lying in the salts [exposed] because if I can’t calculate the data for them, then it means for both of them that they will inevitably land in the bush [be unfruitful].”
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Bennyray37
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Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jonzie,

That is a rather good explanation. I still can't find any examples of such use of salt as an idiom in the English language, though. Could it be that the German idiom: "leave them lying in the salts" is the equivalent of the English idiom: "leave them high and dry?"

--
Benjamin Stevens
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 975
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks very much for all that, Jonzie!

That runs along my line of thinking, too, but I've discovered that even very sound and logical deductive reasoning is sometime not only not enough, but downright MISleading when dealing with Swiss! :-) Even the German language idoms, slang, etc., can be reaally opaque to me sometimes. So - to this end, and to avoid potential future problems (to which I am now maybe overly sensitive!) - I've asked my good friend Mariann to translate that one line about salts and the bush for us. I can hardly wait!

Thanks again,
Dyson
P.S. This Meier stuff must be REALLY interesting to a historian!
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 399
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here are some ideas from me re these lines:
im Salze liegenlassen
This could just mean to leave them in a 'pickle'(salt) or in some trouble or mess.This is similar to what Ben mentioned, like being left out in the cold if their data is not given to them, and they will not have the needed direction.
'liegenlassen' can mean to leave something or someone behind or abandon them etc.

im Busch landen
could mean a similar thing as being left in 'the poo' as they say -- being left in a not so good place.

Robyn
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Jonzie
Member

Post Number: 54
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 07:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaiaguysnet: thank you for the flowers
Bennyray37: yes 'high and dry' and 'salted away' are two English slang that are close. I think salted away is closer, which means hoard, lay up, lay aside, keep secret, stash, futile, unsuccessful, unproductive, yielding nothing
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 985
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Benjamin, Jonzie and Robyn,

I've heard back from Mariann twice about this, and negotiations are continuing.

(She says "it's almost untranslatable".)

Well! There's that "almost" word! The rest should be easy. Stay tuned.

Cheers!
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 989
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all!

At Michael's request I've just done a brand new translation (about telenotics at the SSSC, etc.) from Vol. 10.

(brief excerpt - Ptaah is speaking to Billy)

17. Dazu möchte ich erklären, dass diese schon seit rund acht Monaten in Erscheinung tretenden stark verstärkten Schwingungen zu unerfreulichen Auswüchsen in bezug auf ein unkontrolliertes Verhalten der Menschen führen können, weshalb du den Gruppemitgliedern das Phänomen erklären und sie ersuchen sollst, stark vermehrt sich in jeder Beziehung unter Kontrolle zu halten.

17. In addition, I would like to explain that greatly strengthened vibrations have already been in evidence for about eight months which can lead to unpleasant excesses in regard to uncontrolled behaviour of the human being, which is why you should explain the phenomenon to the group members and they shall be requested to keep themselves under greatly increased control in every regard.

18. Wird dem keine Beachtung geschenkt, dann können unerfreuliche und ausartende Probleme in den zwischenmenschlichen Beziehungen und im Umgang der Menschen untereinander die Folge sein.

18. Were no attention paid to that, then unpleasant and degenerate problems in interpersonal relationships and in dealings with and among human beings can be the result.

Cheers!
Dyson
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 819
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 04:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

which contact in vol 10 please?
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 991
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Thomas,

386th contact

Thursday, April 28th, 2005, 11:25 PM

Cheers!
Dyson
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 993
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Benjamin, Jonzie and Robyn,

For good reasons which are too long, involved and controversial to go into here, I think it's best just to leave the salts & bush sentence in the original literal translation.

I've had three long emails back and forth with Mariann about this one sentence.

There are evidently some sentences which are left deliberately obscure and untranslatable, it seems, for good reasons known - at this stage - not by us.

Also, there really is a belief among FIGU folks that a lot of bad English translations will impel folks to master German.

I, personally, think that a lot of bad English translations will just hurt people, but I guess that's probably only because I won't live until 3050.

(!)

Cheers!
Dyson
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 820
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dyson :-)
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Darren
Member

Post Number: 174
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson, is 3050 the date when everyone on Earth will speak German?
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 998
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Darren, it's the year that I would die if I had the average life-expectancy of an Erran.

:-)

I imagine we'll all be speaking German sometime later than that, around the time that hell freezes over. (joke)

Cheers!
Dyson
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Bennyray37
Member

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2010
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson,

Thanks for looking into the “salts and bush” matter thoroughly for me. I was planning to leave it translated in the literal fashion, unless I heard something different from Mariann.

I think I have a much better idea as to what the phrase likely means after reading everyone’s comments about it, so I’d like to thank everyone for that, too.

By the way, I just finished translating that entire contact today (Contact 236). I am rather excited to perform some research into Menahem the Essene, whom Ptaah describes near the end of the contact. I already know that some of the things that Ptaah said about Menahem can be verified by some of Earth’s ancient writings, but it looks like Ptaah also gives some intriguing information that can’t be found anywhere else on this planet!

Regards.

--
Benjamin Stevens
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 397
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Benjamin,

The information about Menahem is fascinating and now casts even more doubts about the accuracy of the Dead Sea Scrolls and whether he had any hand in their production or falsifications contained within.
It would be nice to obtain accurate information relating to which texts are fabrications or distortions and to what extent.

The value of some of these scrolls is that they blow away entrenched religious ideas and fundamentals particularly The Dialogue Of The Savior and Gospel Of Mary where it becomes obvious that Mary Magdalene not Peter was the most knowledgeable apostle ..... something the holy ones are surely anxious to avoid being known.
Also noteworthy is that in many of these writings Jmannuel is never mentioned in conversation as Jesus but rather Lord which tends to lend greater authenticity to the works. Anything where he is called Jesus has been falsified somewhere along the way if only by substituting the name but then it becomes suspect.

A question. What happened to contact reports 219-227 then 230,231,232 ? Why are there gaps.
And off course huge thanks for the continuing translation efforts :-)
Cheers.
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 999
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all!

I've decided, since my translations (which Billy gave me permission to do) - were deemed to be a waste of bandwidth here on the FIGU forum - to take some of the pressure off of our friends James and Michael, and start publishing them like this:

https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhcrfjdx_2f4jpfrft

Dyson, no one said they were a waste of bandwith. Can you point to the sentence where this was stated? The intent of the translation section was to discuss translations etc...with minor translations being presented. I'm sorry you feel that way, but it was nothing directed towards you or anyone else. No Acrimony intended.

Scott


so they can be available as soon as I've finished them, to picked up later and maybe used elsewhere.

Benjamin, you wrote, " ... it looks like Ptaah also gives some intriguing information that can’t be found anywhere else on this planet!"

I'LL SAY!!! (:-D)

As your work progresses, I'm sure that those many, many leads for terrestrial scientists and researchers within the decades of untranslated contact notes will finally surface and gleam! Keep up the good work! (I note with some satisfaction that our translation about the "black smokers" has now borne fruit.)

Regarding the machinations of the cult of the Essenes, it's worth re-reading what Jmmanuel had to say about them specifically, and us, here and now, more generally.

Chapter 35 Cults around Jmmanuel

It came to pass that Jmmanuel, his mother Mary, and his brother Thomas traveled on into the cities at the sea in the north. Since olden times, warrior women inhabited the area, but their descendants were now peace loving. He preached to them the new teachings according to his knowledge but had to flee their cities when they attempted to kill him. Their own teachings, far removed from truth, were from a rigid religious cult; and they punished with death those who taught differently. Jmmanuel was treated as an outcast by these people and persecuted as an agitator against their cult. So he fled. It came to pass during his flight that he met up with a large caravan. He and his following joined it and continued inland and into the mountains. They traveled through the central part of the country for many weeks whereupon they came to another sea and into the city of Ephesus. But Jmmanuel was very much afraid, and no longer preached his new teachings so that no one would recognize him; for in Ephesus were many people - dealers and merchants, who came there from Jerusalem to conduct business. Many among them had known Jmmanuel and had not been well disposed toward him; therefore he avoided them and obscured his face. The dealers and merchants in Ephesus had spread the story of Jmmanuel and his purported death, which had occurred two-and-one-half years earlier. However, after he had been in the city for a few days, behold, he was recognized by one of the merchants who informed others of like belief. They belonged to a secret group called the Association of the Essenes. They brought Jmmanuel to a meeting that was secret, for they feared the people because their secret society was considered unlawful. But among them was one named Juthan, the most senior of the secret society in Jerusalem, and he spoke, saying, "Behold, we know very well what has taken place in your life, but we do not understand how you can still be among the living. So, do tell us your secret." Jmmanuel feared that he would be bound and returned to Jerusalem if he remained silent in front of the conspirators; so he recounted everything to the Essenes. And he told them about all that had transpired and how he had fled from Jerusalem and had arrived in their region. Juthan, the eldest, said, "Behold, we belong to a secret group called the Association of the Essenes. Our quest and knowledge are not attuned to the teachings of the scribes, but to the secrets of nature and all that is inexplicable to humans. You are great in your knowledge, and by all measures you have advanced in knowledge far beyond us and the scribes, Pharisees, astrologers, even the elders and the philosophers. Therefore, come join our society, be one of us and teach us your knowledge." But Jmmanuel answered, saying, "Even if I were to teach you my knowledge, it would not agree with your teachings, because you follow incomplete human wisdom, whereas I adhere to spiritual wisdom. Therefore, I think that our different teachings would be incompatible with each other. It is also not my inclination to spread my knowledge and teachings in secret, as you do, since your secret Association of Essenes is unauthorized. But let me think over the pros and cons for three days, and whether I will then tell you 'yes' or 'no', because I must first think about everything before I give you my last word on it." And Juthan said, "Be it as you say. Peace be with you. Go and give us an answer in three days, if you want to speak your word then." But Jmmanuel departed from there, fleeing from the city with his following, and traveled east, far into the country. And Jmmanuel said to his followers, "Behold, the Association of the Essenes lives according to an erroneous religious cult, though its followers gather much from my teachings. Their old philosophy, however, is not the teaching of truth, knowledge, love, logic, wisdom and the laws of Creation. Therefore, it is incorrect and not of adequate or real value. But they have recognized this and are now weaving my truthful teachings into their teachings of half-truths, to create from this a new doctrine so that they can demean me by calling me one of them. They will claim that I am affiliated with their society and that they had helped me from the beginning of my life. And they will even say that my teachings stem from the knowledge of their cult, and that they had saved me from the cross because I was one of them. They will claim that all my followers were from their cult, and they will also claim that I am the son of God. But I tell you that I have never belonged to this Association of Essenes and that I have nothing in common with it or its followers; thus I also never received help from them. The Association of the Essenes will not be the only group to make use of my name. Many cults will come forth in my name and will thus consider themselves great and will want to dazzle the people thereby. Similarly, people will establish peculiar cults and will glorify me in them, so as to be more credible, whereby the public can be further enslaved and exploited. And so, many cults will be established in my name, but their purpose will only be to enslave people in their consciousness and freedom, thereby bringing the cults great power over the people, the land and the money. But I tell you that no cult will be righteous if it does not recognize Creation alone as the highest power and does not live according to its laws and directives. And no cult will exist that preaches the truthful teachings, the knowledge or the truth. It will be two times a thousand years before the time comes when my teachings will be preached anew, without being falsified. This will occur when false doctrines and erroneous cults, when lies and fraud, and when deception by the conjurers of the dead and of spirits, by the soothsayers and clairvoyants, as well as by all the charlatans of the truth, will be at their peak. Until then, false cults, as well as liars, deceivers, charlatans, conjurers of the dead and of spirits, false soothsayers, clairvoyants, and false mediums pretending to speak for supernatural, other-dimensional and extra terrestrial beings from the depths of the universe, will be so numerous that they can no longer be counted. And such cults will be built upon human blood, hatred, greed and power, on lies and deceptions, and on cheating, misunderstanding, self-deception, confusion of consciousness and delusion. But just as they will have arisen, so will they be destroyed, because the truth will triumph, for there is no untruth that will not be denounced as a lie. There is nothing hidden that will not become revealed. Humans will recognize what is before their faces, and what is hidden from them will reveal itself when they search for the truth and the enlightenment of wisdom. But the truth lies deep within the laws of Creation, and there alone should humankind seek and find it. Those who seek shall not stop seeking until they find, and when they find, they will be profoundly shocked and astonished, but then they will rule over the universe. May humans recognize from this that the kingdom is within them and outside of them."


Cheers!
Dyson

P.S. I noticed that Colonel Kal K. Korff, of the Israeli Special Secret Service, is STILL - after all these years - publicly asserting that Billy claims to be the reincarnation of "Jesus"!

Oh Jeesus! What a krazy! :-/

(Message edited by scott on February 26, 2010)
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 387
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson, thanks for that bit on the Essenes and Jmmanuel .... Super interesting.

Also, your above google docs link does not work. Not sure if that was a demo or a live link.

Bruce

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