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    Gaiaguysnet Member Post Number: 1076 Registered: 03-2004 |
Dear Michael, (et al) (I put this here because the ET intervention thread is now blocked.) OK, here goes! Sorry it took so long for these answers to your questions of me, but I've been unusually busy in what we laughingly refer to as the real word for several days. :-) WARNING: the below contains information from Billy and the Plejaren and views of mine and others which some people here may find unpleasant, inconvenient and even confronting. Proceed at your own risk. Due to the wonders of the Information Revolution, a lot of the answers you seek from me (in your posting over on the "Mental Fluidalenergies resp. Fluidalforces" thread http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/9242.html#POST48114 ) have already been dealt with rather exhaustively (exhaustingly?) in other places, and "all" I had to do is dig them out for you again. The best sound bite, sadly, still eludes me. I distinctly remember writing some years ago, here on this forum - of the Plejaren - "these good people tell lies", or words to that effect. I think it may have been deleted in The Great Matthew Purge of 2006. This will be a long contribution (sorry, moderators!) but, by the time it's finished, it should provide a helpful resource for other people who - understandably - have the same (sorts of) questions. I'll start with some general observations, and then make some direct replies to your welcome specific questions, and elaborate on them later. Next comes the "language problem" and how it can be exploited to obfuscate, followed by a bit about symbols. Then I'll move onto some of Billy and the Plejaren's own revelations about their rather other-worldly methodologies for revealing/concealing the wonderful and dangerous truth, and then I'll try to wrap it up with some resources pointing to some of the main themes regarding what logically seems to be congruent to the three main ET groups involved (past or present) in good old Terra; being the 1.) Plejaren Federation, who we all know and love, 2.) the Zeta Reticulans(?) who I think are responsible for the genuine (not the hoaxed or corrupted) "crop circles", and plausibly Roswell, and, 3.) the evil Bafath, (despicable enemies of Mother Earth and all her passengers, with whom the Plejaren share the same Lyrian/Vegan ancestry), a.k.a. "Giza Intelligences", who steered the planet's blood-drenched course (via religions and politics, for the last few millennia, until 32 years ago in May), whose agenda is described in no uncertain terms in the sickening document known as the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." Given that the threat from the last of the vengeful Sirians has now finally past, I won't deal with all that here, nor with the interdimentional Skrill, for the same reason. I'll insert some useful web addresses which provide some expansions and details for these themes. Interestingly and very significantly, the two things that these three abovementioned distinct groups of extraterrestrials (and associates) have in common is they all communicate using cryptic symbols and they all EASILY outsmart us Earthlings, collectively. But for goodness sake look around you. That hasn't be very difficult. ;-( Michael, you asked me, "Since we're all about the harsh language of truth here, why do you continue to maintain that Meier is effectively lying to us all regarding: the crop circles not being of ET origin, his emphatic declarations that the PoZ [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion] is a hoax, and his comments about other conspiracies with which you clearly disagree, etc.?" Well, obviously, because I know - with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, and from those among us who don't/can't do their homework and therefore can't emotionally cope with it coming from him. We are told repeatedly that they (BEAM & Co.) cannot do it. WE have to do it for ourselves. It's the only way it will work. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/et-ethics.htm www.tjreseach.info/denial.htm And I certainly cannot prove it, or anything else TO you. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meier.sdw142.derfalscheweg.htm Just to clarify: I don't know for sure that the crop circles are ET, per se, since they might be from interdimentionals or time travellers, etc. But they are NOT (all) from regular (or Dark Order) Earthlings. And the Protocols are NOT a "hoax" either. I know these things because I have always done what Billy tells us all we must do. Namely, study hard, with a logical and open mind, in order to find the truth. I don't just believe, when there is a paucity of evidence. I find the evidence, and then learn and know the truth - naturally within the broad limits of human fallibility. " ... denn würde ihnen alles Wissen einfach wie Futter hingeschmissen und von ihnen gedankenlos und ohne Verarbeitung gefuttert, dann würde es keinen eigentlichen Erfolg bringen, sondern nur ein gewisses Schulwissen, während der Rest unverdaut als Exkremente wieder ausgeschieden würde." ( ... if all knowledge was simply tossed out to them like feed and they fed on it thoughtlessly and without processing, then it would bring no proper success, but rather only a certain school-knowledge, while the undigested remainder would be secreted again as excrement.) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv5p468.htm You asked me, "Since he's creating a record for these times, and it seems to be a mighty truthful and consistent one, what does it serve him/us to suddenly go cryptic, or even to outright disinform about such specific - repeatedly asked - questions?" Were these things true, it would be extremely dangerous NOT to deny them. Twenty-one - and counting - assassination attempts! (23 September 1964, 5 January 1976, 21 April 1976, 25 April 1976, 27 May 1976, 17 August 1977, 18 February 1978, 21 May 1978, 4 December 1978, 11 May 1980, 5 April 1982, 3 June 1982, 6 June 1982, 8 June 1982, 19 July 1982, 30 September 1989, 24 April 1990, 8 June 1998, 10 June 1998, 26 August 2002, 2 June 2003) That fact should certainly speak for itself. And why distract the Plejaren's fidgety audience with crop circles, whose relatively un-evolved creators evidently think the best way to help us is to feed us? The contact notes being a record-of-the-times, designed for the distant future, can be even better understood in light of what is being left OUT in the current era, in the same way that we can read a big story between the lines of the Gospel of Matthew, in light of the Talmud Jmmanuel. In the distant future, everybody will know what Billy was saying and - more importantly - they will understand the deadly political danger he was addressing when he, for instance, said, "The Freemansons (sic) as sort of a religious community are harmless, as is also the case with the Illuminati, a group of people who are spreading silly conspiration (sic) theories. What or who is „the New World Order“?" http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/7510.html#POST27169 You continue, "When I was with Billy and Christian several years ago and personally asked the question about the PoZ, he took less than a millisecond to respond about the nature and source of the hoax. So either he was telling the truth, or so afraid that the Israelis were going to descend on the center that he had a lie well prepared to protect from such an invasion. Somehow I don't buy the latter." It's not just one or the other, and Billy has "unlearnt" fear, so it's tactical. Like not revealing the Apollo 11 hoax, which would have led to endangering the FIGU folks and even to "war actions". It simply and obviously won't work if he tells certain members something different and they can then quote him. This is the man Sfath said had the intellectual level of a 35 year old man when he was 7. That gives BEAM and IQ of 500 at the age of 7. He wouldn't have needed even "less than a millisecond", Michael. Would he have needed time to think? This is the guy who - among other things - moves heavy stoves with his MIND, turns Pepsi-cola into wine, etc. etc. etc. etc. And didn't Billy state somewhere that a number of the murder attempts came from Mossad? You write, "My point is that you are still giving what he has clearly stated the old wink-wink, nudge-nudge and effectively calling him a...liar." That's right, I am, but an ethical "liar". They (and I) prefer the expression "concealer", because, here on Earth, the word "liar" carries pejorative connotations which do not, in the slightest way, apply to either Billy or the Plejaren. This is the central plank in my argument. Let's not lose sight of the fact that for the first 20 years of the modern mission, Billy was reported to be in contact with people from the incandescent-hot Pleiades star cluster, and Semjase said that Kenneth Arnold saw their Pleiadian ships. (Then he didn't.) And "crop circles" are "made with rope and boards and other primitive means", etc. etc. You write, "We certainly don't have to accept anything/everything he says as the truth. But so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence showing that he has chosen to lie, to actually repeatedly, emphatically lie about things, instead of issuing his quite familiar responses to the effect of, "I don't know", "Figure it out yourselves", etc." The operative phrase here is, "so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence". Yes, obviously, but whose responsibility is that, my friend? We airmailed you a copy of Dr. Greer's book and you never read it. In light of your email send-out this week http://www.angelsfortruth.com/blog/2010/03/paedophilia-satanism-vatican-gay-sex-scandal-fake-gold-army/ about the Sydney elite's ritual cannibalism of kidnapped children, and so forth, and your acceptance thereof as the truth, I advised you privately "in the strongest possible terms" to also read (theoretical nuclear physicist) Professor Eljo Hashoff's small book about his scientific investigation into crop circles ( http://www.amazon.com/Deepening-Complexity-Crop-Circles-Scientific/dp/1583940464 ) and you told me you had neither adequate time nor interest. Don't get me wrong. I can relate to that - honestly! - but time is what's needed to get to the bottom of all this, and not just endlessly repeated unbelievable assertions and pointers from your volunteer brains trust. Anyway, here's an interesting couple of paragraphs from long before so-called "crop circles" became quite so undeniably vast, complex and symbolic as they are now in the 21 Century. You wrote it. Since you were still using the word "Pleiadians", it must have been at least 15 years ago. (snip) "Crop Circles: Strangely enough, in a conversation from 1994, Meier and another contact named Ptaah dismiss the authenticity of the crop circles, and attribute them all to hoaxers. This seemed quite ridiculous to me, as the sheer intricacy, complexity and large number of crop circles appearing in sparsely populated areas in a variety of countries eliminates the likelihood of that kind of conspiracy, let alone the immense coordinated skills necessary to fabricate most of them. It should be pointed out that the photographs of the famous "landing tracks" of the Pleiadian ships presented the first close-up look at the "technology" of the crop circles. Semjase told Meier that the landing tracks were created by their beamships' anti-gravitational fields which swirled the grasses down without breaking them. It seems to me that "somebody" must have said to themselves, "Hey, let's use this technology to create deliberate patterns for the Earthlings to contemplate. We can incorporate different mathematical and symbolic messages and at the same time demonstrate how to use tremendous power creatively without killing anything!" I could be wrong, but it is ironic that Meier--himself having suffered such abuse from accusations of being a hoaxer--should be so adamant about the crop circles being hoaxed!!" http://www.theyfly.com/UFO_Mag_Article.htm (snip) You never even fully read the short "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion", nor debunked for yourself the specious conventional "wisdom" that it is a hoax. (As one example, but not the primary cause of your difficulties in finding evidence, after 30 years, 95% of the material you promote - for a living - remains hidden behind your self imposed opaque language barrier you choose not to climb over. No wonder that you state, "so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence".) I'm not. I've gone to a great deal of effort and spent most of my adult life familiarising myself with this evidence, which hides in plain sight. I make an huge volunteer effort to try to point people to the right path, but I cannot walk it for them. As you point out to all your "stupid" readers, Galileo built a telescope that showed mountains on the Moon, but people wouldn't look through it. Not only will you not look through my telescope, but you insinuate that my thinking need cleaning up for reporting the things which anyone can see through it if they have the simple courage to look. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierb28.htm http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meiersb35.htm Billy writes, (from SB28) "For those interested, the following book is worth reading: "Die Protokolle der Weisen von Zion" by Jeffrey L. Sammons, Wallstein-Verlag, ISBN 3-89244.191-X." ( http://www.amazon.de/Die-Protokolle-Weisen-Zion-Antisemitismus/dp/389244191X ) Now as it turns out, Vivienne and I count ourselves among "those interested", so, on Billy's valued recommendation, we made the effort to buy and read the book, which is a rather standard (but on the shallow side) "debunk" full of glib, specious sophistry and paper-thin claims and factoids. Notably, and unusually, the entire text of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is included. But what a surprise when we read the introduction and saw that Billy's contact note comments were largely WORD-FOR-WORD plagiarisms of Sammons' book! And what cleverer, better and safer way to draw attention to something as dangerous as this than to say things like: The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is stupid. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is unbelievably idiotic. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is an evil racist hoax. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is the work of vicious anti-Semites. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is this. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is that. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" blah blah blah. Get my point? Not just clever - unbelievably clever. You write, "I think it's time that you either come right out and say that he's lying, and explain how you know (not believe) that to be true and how your knowledge of the truthfulness of these conspiracies trumps his, or maybe admit that you are the one still holding on firmly to unsubstantiated information." What I'm doing (again) here now is trying to show my substantiation. If the "information" (your word), defined in the dictionaries as "facts", is unsubstantiated for you, (it's not for me or any other diligent student of the truth) it's merely because you still have to try to make the effort to substantiate it for yourself. You have to learn both the languages of German and symbols, That's what's required of you, and much, much, much more. But a lot can still be gained by simply checking every statement made by Billy slamming conspiracies to see whether they are consistent with each other. The things he said were way too stupid for someone so obviously smart. http://theyfly.com/Knowledge_and_Wisdom_END_Anti-Semitism.htm You conclude, "Whichever the case may be, since this issue colors your own thinking about a few things, since you are holding it as inner truth to which the rest of us are either unknowing or willfully blind ... " It's not an "inner" truth. The operative clause here is, "the rest of us are either unknowing or willfully blind". You mean the English-language forum, I take it. This "rest" naturally doesn't include my private German-language correspondents, and fellow students of the Prophet's teachings of the truth, and the vital historical context in which it MUST be viewed, who are unwilling to do what I do and hang out with my homies here on this forum because they are "disgusted" with the level of ignorance and high-handed arrogance evinced here. There is an entire world of serious scholarship underpinning the quiet revolution of truth, but - by its very nature - it's not in English and not on this English-language forum either. Not your fault, OK? Not your language. It's being cryptically concealed from you by being written in German. I - almost single-handedly - am trying to reveal it here and it's not always welcome and the messenger dodges proverbial bullets sometimes. I accept and understand that, but the English-language forum has never been cleaner and healthier than it is now, so I'll continue to make the effort for a while longer, until I feel it's responsible of me to return to my (horribly interrupted) pile of unfinished translations. " ... it's long past high time to clean it [Dyson's thinking] up." I hope that you can see from the URLs I'm providing, that I've been trying my modest best to explain the cause of my informed thinking for those of you who cannot read the texts and are either too busy or too apathetic to do the required background research. I don't need to "clean up" my thinking, Michael. There's far too much brainwashing on this sad planet already. Here's "cryptic" for you. When the modern (1975) component of the mission started, Billy was evidently OK with being (VERY falsely!) characterised as a "simple" (read "stupid") one-armed Swiss farmer (read "stupid and parochial") with a 6th grade education (read "stupid, parochial and ignorant"). Naturally, his biography has expanded in the intervening 35 years. Now this is not lying, but it's pretty cryptic and a long way from being generous with the truth, that Billy is the wisest man who ever lived. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/nokodemion.htm OM, Kanon 20:38 "Denn es ist dem Menschen entschwunden die Gesinnung der Bemühung, dass die Wahrheit soll erarbeitet werden durch eigene Kraft des Denkens und Forschens und Erkennens. 39. Also hat er sich gewandelt in der Form zum Irren, dass er nur noch das annehmen will als Wahrheit, das er mit seinen Händen berühren kann, und das er mit seinen Augen sehen kann, und das er mit seinen Ohren hören kann. 40. Es ist dies aber der Weg der Falschheit und des reinen Materiellen, der jeder Bemühung des Selbstdenkens, des Selbstfühlens, des Selbstforschens, des Selbstsuchens und der Selbsterkennung jeglicher Lösung und Wahrheit Hohn spricht und spottet. 41. Also ist nicht gegeben dadurch der Weg zur Erforschung der Wahrheit und der Findung der Wahrheit, weshalb durch den JHWH und durch den Propheten keine Zeichen oder nur sehr sparsam Zeichen gegeben sein sollen, die da von der Wahrheit zeugend sind. 42. Gegeben ist das Wort der Wahrheit, und dieses ist genügsam vollauf, um die Lehren der Wahrheit zu offenbaren für jene, die da sind willig, die Mühsal der Erlernung durch eigene Kraft anzugehen und zu tragen."" (The Earth human’s sense of effort towards seeking the truth has disappeared. He has lost the inclination to seek the truth through his inherent power of thinking, searching and recognizing. Therefore he has turned to the erroneous form of thinking, that he will only accept as true that which he can touch with his hands and that which he can see with his eyes and that which he can hear with his ears. But this is the false, purely material way, which mocks and scorns any effort of self-thinking, self-feeling, self-searching, self-seeking and self-recognition for every solution and truth. Therefore through this, the way to the searching for the truth, and the finding of the truth, is not provided. And so, through the JHWH and the Prophet, no signs, or only sparse signs, should be given, that testify to the truth. The word of truth is given, and this is wholly sufficient to reveal the teaching of the truth for any who are willing to make and to bear the effort of learning through their own power.) http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/omintro.htm The language problem: It has several facets. One is that I seem to have to continually repeat that 95% of the texts upon which I rely for my information from Billy and his ET contacts is in German only, and, obviously, not accessible to non-German readers, such as yourself. I've done my best, and will continue to do my best to try to amend this deplorable situation, but it pays to reflect on the fact that some dumb Earth dude (me) is doing it, and not the unimaginably better qualified and unimaginably more intelligent Plejaren linguists. Why? Are they deliberately concealing these teachings from all but the German language proficient? 25,000 pages. Think about it. That situation makes it utterly impossible to adequately grasp the big picture - unless you read German, as I, of course, do. I had to teach myself - as an adult. It took time. It was difficult and very tedious. And I've still got a lot to learn. And I had to learn a hellava lot of English too. I also had to teach myself the arcane language of symbols. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meierv7p22-23.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meierv5p50-52.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/awordaboutwords.htm Another facet of the language problem is that Billy and the Plejaren use words in a way that I consider a serious form of "language-abuse", but of course - and this is the pivotal point - they do this ONLY in order to help us and protect us from things that they know are not good for us. I know (not believe) that this is their sole motivation, however offensive and patronising that may seem to my fellow pre-human Earthlings who think that Planet Suicide here is the centre of the universe and we Earth "humans" represent the One Great Shining Jewel in the Gleaming Crown of Creation. Let me give you an example of the sort of language-abuse I mean, by directing you to a very recent translation of mine from back in May 2000, http://theyfly.com/Concealment_vs_Lies.htm and by offering a hypothetical situation as a parallel. You come to visit me in Tasmania and - for no apparent reason - I punch you playfully in the nose. You say, "Ouch! Why did you punch me in the nose?" and I say, "Michael, mate! I never! Here in Tasmania, we call that 'a kiss on the cheek'!" The fact of the matter is that no matter what it may be called in Tasmania, you've got a sore hooter and not a kiss on the cheek in the sense that that English language expression is commonly known in every other place that speaks English. Me telling you that your sore beak is the result of a kiss on the cheek is obviously nonsense. - Obviously. - And to historically assert that I've never ever punched anyone in the nose, and then - some years later - explain that, when "punch in the nose" is conventionally said, I say, "kiss on the cheek" instead. Various people, including a high profile FUGU K49er, have stated that Billy would never lie. Certainly, as one of his strongest public defenders and supporters, me branding him an (ethical) liar would hurt the mission and impact on T-shirt sales, but that is, and always has been, my assertion and I stick to it. Let me just make the point abundantly clear that the truths I choose to reveal from Billy's texts, etc., can indeed damage the mission in the short term in the eyes of those who want a lot of oil and balsam, but these harsh and iconoclastic truths will ultimately be what's required to actually advance the quiet revolution in the long term, where it really counts. Using the word "lie" in the conventional English-language sense to mean; "a deliberate untruth calculated to deceive", yes, Billy and the Plejaren do lie (ethically). (Professor Deardorff independently reached that blindingly obvious conclusion too.) But, of course, by their own idiosyncratic (by terrestrial standards) definitions, they certainly NEVER lie. On Earth, liars are the deepest type of lowlife. But from Erra and from The Prophet, the "lies" are for our own good and an absolute requirement for the viability of the vital mission. In short: Earth liars are bad. Plejaren "liars" are good, and we Earth folks ignorantly use the word "lie" wrong anyway. We all learnt from the Bafath. We now all have a lot to re-learn. What Sfath has to say about how Billy does his wonderful work: Contact Reports, Volume 1 Pages 11-20, Sfath's Explanation to 7 year old Eduard, February 3rd, 1945. 48. Gib stets alles, was du zu geben vermagst, wenn die Menschen bereit sind zu empfangen. 48. Constantly give everything that you are able to give, if the humans are ready to receive. 49. Gib jedoch niemals mehr hinsichtlich der Lehre, ihres Wissens und ihrer Weisheit, als die Menschen fähig sind, alles zu verstehen und zu verkraften. 49. However never give more, in respect of the teaching, its knowledge and its wisdom, than the humans are capable of understanding and coping with. 50. Die Regel beweist, dass sie immer mehr wissen wollen, als ihr Verstand zu verkraften vermag, deshalb sei dir gesagt, dass du immer nur gerade soviel Wissen und Weisheit lehren und preisgeben sollst, wie der augenblickliche Stand des Verstehens der Menschen dies verlangt. 50. The rule proves that they always want to know more than their understanding can cope with, so, for that reason, be told that you should always teach and give away only as much knowledge and wisdom as is demanded by the immediate state of the humans' understanding. 51. Steigt das Verstehen und Erfassen der tatsächlichen Wahrheit in bezug auf den Stoff des Lernens, dann kann dem neuen Verstehen gemäss die Lehre in ihrem Wert und in ihren Einzelheiten erweitert werden. 51. If the understanding and grasping of the actual truth climbs in regards to the learning material, then the new understanding can be expanded in its value and its details in accord with the teachings. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.v1p11-20.htm What's in English? You've got to buy a $5 booklet from FIGU USA (available only in the USA) called "THOSE WHO LIE ABOUT CONTACTS, CHEATS AND DECEIVERS IN MATTERS PERTAINING TO THE PLEIADIANS, ASHTAR SHERAN, PTAAH, SEMJASE, QUETZAL, AND ALL THEIR COLLABORATORS, JMMANUEL, AND THE ARAHAT ATHERSATA AND PETALE LEVELS - AND QUESTIONS ABOUT MOHAMMED" http://us.figu.org/portal/tabid/88/CategoryID/2/ProductID/14/PageIndex/3/Default.aspx in order to read what you need to about Billy's cunningly crafted circumlocutions, but we've made some (legally permissible) extracts available here: http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meieriowv7p1,383,v8p69.htm and done some more translations, and so on, since this topic comes around with all the regularity of the changing seasons. OK. The main themes of the 3 main ET groups. 1.) The Plejaren - (good guys) - who cryptically called themselves "Pleiadians" for the first 20 years of their semi-public performance, use 52,476,812 symbols to communicate with each other and to Billy, who learnt that language, which was created by Nokodemion. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.symbole.htm When a dangerously sensitive truth has to be concealed from the vulnerable among us, it is flagged (for those with eyes to see) with the most laughably, risible, idiotic explanation that a really clever person (with a highly developed sense of humour?) could dream up. Like crop circles are created by regular Earth guys using ropes and boards. The Protocols are "unbelievable idiotic" and "tirelessly repetitive". Chemtrails are - umm - whatever Billy ended up saying about them, and so on. Billy's not the only one, either, who does this sort of thing, and for the same reason, too. Say one thing which will be understood differently by two different groups of people. For example, an entire city watches gigantic antigravity UFOs float silently overhead, and the authorities say they were flares. Or swamp gas. And some people say, "Oh. Good. I was worried." And others say, "THAT'S OBVIOUSLY not true!", and then they go out seeking what IS true, as we are all repeatedly urged to do by Billy and the Plejaren, if they are not already so totally bereft of a crumb of intellectual courage, or so utterly paralysed by television-induced aboulia, that they just decide it's easier to just swallow down what is obviously a great load of stinking, toxic garbage. 2.) The Reticulans - (also good guys) - who we call the Little Greys, use symbols too - almost without exception - but this time to communicate with Earthlings using symbols, and our fields as their canvas. They have used Euclidian geometry to PROVE that they are not from around here. http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathtrek_06_30_03.html To paraphrase Richard P. Crandall: "People lie; Euclidian geometry doesn't lie". It looks like they got both the prehistoric Agricultural Revolution (by providing domesticated grains) and the ongoing, modern Information Revolution (by providing integrated circuits - in the heads of the Roswell androids) up and running. The polyembrionic super-grains these ETs produce in the centres of their late-season field forms could herald the 2nd wave of the Agricultural Revolution, and feed the starving millions, but the Big Ag arm of the Dark Order's relentless ridicule campaigns by their Corporate Media arm keep that well off the dim-witted public's radar. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/DCoCC_Excerpts.htm  MILK HILL On two occasions these ETs - or whoever - have used alphabetic languages. in 1991 it was a direct message to Freemasons, in ancient Latin, still used (only) by modern Freemasons, as one of their secret codes. "APPONO ASTOS" (We Are Opposed To Cunning And Deceit) http://www.cropcircles.net/gift.htm A decade later it was also in binary code, but this time it mirrored our own (terrestrial) effort. http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/arecibo.html  CHILBOLTON The following year it was in English, lightly encrypted in a simple ASCII-coded binary message.  CRABWOOD And a seminal thought from me linking Rupert Sheldrake's work (with which Billy largely agrees) to these "field forms", as I like to call them: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dhcrfjdx_4c5f7jgcc Further resources: http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/ptaacropcs.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meier.puzzlesolution.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/chilbolton01.htm http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/SIGNS.htm 3.) The Bafath - (VERY bad guys, recently taken into custody) - these were the (excerpted from And Yet They Fly): "Giza Intelligences" -- so named for the location of their hideout -- (who) had been a constant thorn in Billy's side, as well as the cause of many unsavory global intrigues for several millenniums. These people of ill intent are actually distant descendants of the ancient Lyrian and Vegan races who visited Earth and colonized it many times over the last 22 million years. The Pleiadians share the same Lyrian/Vegan ancestry, as do the Giza Intelligences. However, the Pleiadians have developed and maintained a unified and peaceful culture far away in their home world star system for almost 50,000 years. The Pleiadians are a marked contrast, as you will see, to their Earth-bound brethren, the Giza Intelligences. One of the more recent extraterrestrial colonizations occurred roughly 33,000 years ago, when various races, who were the descendants of Lyrians and Vegans, returned to Earth to establish peaceable settlements here. Peace on the Earth lasted for an impressive 18,000 years until power-hungry scientists attempted to seize all power for themselves, just as their warlike ancestors had done many times before in earlier epochs. Remembering the fate of their ancestors, the people saw through these plans early enough and rebelled. The scientists were left with no other alternative but to flee in their spacecraft into the wide expanse of outer space. Their exile took place about 15,000 years ago. The banished scientists settled down in the neighboring system of Beta Centauri, created many offspring and developed a technology with incredible capabilities. Their government used all available means to promote an insane hatred of Earth people, with the intent of returning to Earth as soon as possible to avenge their banishment and establish a supremacy of brutal force. The product of their single-mindedness was a people of malicious and bestial nature. Spurred on through inhumane hatred, they were even able to raise their average life span to several thousand years. Each and every individual was trained in a military profession and taught how to use intrigues to stir up discord and play one man against the other. Discipline within their own ranks could only be upheld through toilsome efforts and terrible punishments. After 2,000 years, they reached a point where they were able to attack Earth and 13,000 years ago, these people, being filled with so much hatred, returned to Earth in their large spacecraft under the leadership of Jschwjsch Arus I. A scientist of extremely bestial mentality, Arus I was rightfully called "The Barbarian." To assist him in his plans of conquest, he had appointed two hundred scientists in various specialized fields as representatives and subordinates. In a lightning attack, they spread over the Earth and first conquered the country of Hyperborea, high up in North America, where a very mild climate prevailed at the time. (Incidentally, Hyperborea is now known as Florida, which assumed its present position after a polar shift.) From there, they acquired great power over the Earth. It would lead too far afield to mention the details in this connection, but the descendants of Arus I did lead a hardened regiment of enslaved Earth people. In their megalomania, the invaders let themselves be praised as God (in the sense of the Creator), demanded blood sacrifice and performed deadly retaliatory measures against the Earth people. They caused great disasters, privation and misery among many peoples of Earth. Of the three sons of Arus I -- Arussem, Ptaah and Salam -- it was Arussem who murdered his father with the intention of continuing domination over the people in the same malicious style as did his father and the other predecessors. But his two well-meaning brothers, Ptaah and Salam stopped Arussem. They put an end to the bloodshed and all other grievances and ruled Earth in a just and humane manner. For Arussem and his followers, there was no place left on Earth to live. They were exiled from Earth 3,351 [as at 1991] years ago. However, it was not too long before Arussem and his followers secretly returned to the Sol System and nestled deep inside the Earth beneath the Giza pyramids. Underground chambers were newly constructed into the main headquarters. There, they further developed their ingenious security systems. From that point on, we refer to this negative and ancient splinter group of the Pleiadians as the "Giza Intelligences." [a.k.a. BAFATH] They were forced to work from their underground chambers using the most malicious methods and machinations. Their plans were composed of intrigues, lies, cheating, false doctrines, deception, negatively influenced states of consciousness, and much more. They never gave up their goal of acquiring world power, and any means to that end was right and fair. From that time on, they spread false religious doctrines and selected certain Earth people as contactees who were then misled and misused as submissive servants. They did nor flinch from abducting individuals and, if need be, from murdering them." http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/AYTF-Giza.htm So that's my effort. I hope that has addressed you questions, Michael, and the leads I've provided can be instructive. I reiterate that Billy, as The One True Prophet, has one methodology, as stated above by Sfath, and we Earth humans have a completely different way of going about things. He must reveal only what we are ready for, and we must show him that we have done our own work and our own thinking, and are ready for more. Only then will he provide it. I came to Billy from the Disclosure Project and all its whistleblowing former men-in-black, MILAB guys, etc. I spent years trying to tell the dogmatic devotees buzzing around Billy that his harsh assessment that abductees were largely attention seekers, etc., was not entirely consistent with the evidence. Only after I did this, and copped a lot of flak for my trouble, did Billy and Ptaah reveal the truth in 2007. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv7p438-444.htm It is in this hope for more help, and in this spirit - as well as to provide leads to genuine truth seekers here - that I have written this. I apologise for offending those who are offended because I said too much and to those who are offended because I didn't say enough. Cheers! Dyson der Vorausschauende | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 868 Registered: 03-2004 |
This being a public forum, I would like to add my 2 cents, though they may be worth less :-D Dyson, I for one do appreciate that you went through the effort to explain yourself. But just keep in mind that people remember that it was you and your partner that blatantly ignored what warnings and advice were given you by not only BEAM himself but also Ptaah. It is for this reason that we can't always assume that you are not once again overboard in your ideas. This is not to say that you are or are not correct in what you stated in your last long post. It is just that we can't take it at face value without you backing it up as you have attempted to do. In any case, as you yourself have said, as have BEAM and his friends, we should not assume or just believe anything. So I hope that you too can understand when we follow this advice of yours and BEAM and not just accept what you say without asking you to explain. By the way, it is my understanding that Michael is correct in at least one part where he mentions that BEAM may hide things but he doesn't state untruths. He may hide and conceal the truth but not falsify it. That is my understanding and I see no evidence to the contrary even after reading your post. If BEAM states something ambiguous, that is one thing but it is clear to me that he has never lied in any sense of the word, whether or not the word is used with a sense of wrong doing. I hope you understand at least some of our points of view now as well. Communication is a good thing but just don't take the stand that you are somehow more advanced than anyone because we all have our faults and sometimes we don't see ourselves the way others see us. Looking in the mirror just doesn't give one the same perspective as being outside of ones own skin, if you see what I mean :-) Have a great day Dyson and everyone else too! Thomas patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com | ||
Ramirez Member Post Number: 406 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi Dyson, Congratulations & thankyou for the effort. Lots of interesting links and what you state ..... some are and have been long aware of these matters. Study, search, combine, ask questions, join the dots. Big pictures gets smaller if one removes the dark glasses. Cheers. | ||
Gaiaguysnet Member Post Number: 1076 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi Thomas, Ramirez! Thanks for the kind words. (More will be revealed.) Yes, indeed! Do not BELIEVE a word of it! Even Billy says, "Don't even believe me!" Cheers! Dyson | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 869 Registered: 03-2004 |
Hi Dyson, make no mistake, I was not butt smooching. I just want to see what you say with equal lack of prejudice as what I see everything else with (at least ideally). That is not to say that I did not post without being kind. I just don't want anyone, including you, to take it as me putting my nose in your backside. All the same, I still do respect your efforts and what I see as you having an honest, good intention toward the truth...even if I do not always agree with your interpretations (of the facts, not the translations of course) :-) Have a great day everyone(and thank you Dyson for the efforts you make for those who do not have access yet to the knowledge locked inside the German texts at the moment, all butt smooching aside! LOL!!!) patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com | ||
Smukhuti Member Post Number: 273 Registered: 06-2009 |
Hi Dyson, Some of the dates you have given in relation to the events around Bafath are in disagreement with http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Event_Timeline . Thought you want to know For example: You wrote "One of the more recent extraterrestrial colonizations occurred roughly 33,000 years ago" Should it be "One of the more recent extraterrestrial colonizations occurred roughly 133,000 years ago"? You wrote "Their exile took place about 15,000 years ago" Should it be "Their exile took place about 115,000 years ago"? You wrote "they reached a point where they were able to attack Earth and 13,000 years ago" Should it be "they reached a point where they were able to attack Earth and 113,000 years ago"? You wrote "They were exiled from Earth 3,351 [as at 1991] years ago." Should it be "They were exiled from Earth 5,334 [as at 1991] years ago."? After reading your above post I tried to find out where Billy has said/lied about Plejaren coming from the Pleides and so far I got "region around Pleides", "near Pleides star system" and "direction of Pleides". Earth humans assumed they came from Pleides and then Billy played the "Pleidean for your better understanding" card. ! This event seem to a classic case of concealment. Salome. Suv | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 190 Registered: 07-2009 |
Dear Michael, (et al) (I put this here because the ET intervention thread is now blocked.) Hi Dyson, Thanks, I'll insert my comments. I'll remove the material that I'm not commenting on. DD: Michael, you asked me, "Since we're all about the harsh language of truth here, why do you continue to maintain that Meier is effectively lying to us all regarding: the crop circles not being of ET origin, his emphatic declarations that the PoZ [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion] is a hoax, and his comments about other conspiracies with which you clearly disagree, etc.?" Well, obviously, because I know - with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, and from those among us who don't/can't do their homework and therefore can't emotionally cope with it coming from him. We are told repeatedly that they (BEAM & Co.) cannot do it. WE have to do it for ourselves. It's the only way it will work. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/et-ethics.htm www.tjreseach.info/denial.htm And I certainly cannot prove it, or anything else TO you. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meier.sdw142.derfalscheweg.htm Just to clarify: I don't know for sure that the crop circles are ET, per se, since they might be from interdimentionals or time travellers, etc. But they are NOT (all) from regular (or Dark Order) Earthlings. And the Protocols are NOT a "hoax" either. I know these things because I have always done what Billy tells us all we must do. Namely, study hard, with a logical and open mind, in order to find the truth. I don't just believe, when there is a paucity of evidence. I find the evidence, and then learn and know the truth - naturally within the broad limits of human fallibility. " ... denn würde ihnen alles Wissen einfach wie Futter hingeschmissen und von ihnen gedankenlos und ohne Verarbeitung gefuttert, dann würde es keinen eigentlichen Erfolg bringen, sondern nur ein gewisses Schulwissen, während der Rest unverdaut als Exkremente wieder ausgeschieden würde." ( ... if all knowledge was simply tossed out to them like feed and they fed on it thoughtlessly and without processing, then it would bring no proper success, but rather only a certain school-knowledge, while the undigested remainder would be secreted again as excrement.) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv5p468.htm MH: So far, it appears to me that your claim, in your answer to my question about the crop circles, that you "know- with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, etc." and then " I don't know for sure that the crop circles are ET, per se, since they might be from interdimentionals or time travellers, etc. But they are NOT (all) from regular (or Dark Order) Earthlings." is a bit confusing, as well as a bit self-contradictory. I think it would be more accurate to say that you have drawn that conclusion, one of a number of possibilities. And you seem to be unaware that some rather high tech people have indeed come forward admitting to having done a good number of the circles, designing them in advance using computers, etc. I will have to look for the link but this info has been reported. DD: You asked me, "Since he's creating a record for these times, and it seems to be a mighty truthful and consistent one, what does it serve him/us to suddenly go cryptic, or even to outright disinform about such specific - repeatedly asked - questions?" Were these things true, it would be extremely dangerous NOT to deny them. Twenty-one - and counting - assassination attempts! (23 September 1964, 5 January 1976, 21 April 1976, 25 April 1976, 27 May 1976, 17 August 1977, 18 February 1978, 21 May 1978, 4 December 1978, 11 May 1980, 5 April 1982, 3 June 1982, 6 June 1982, 8 June 1982, 19 July 1982, 30 September 1989, 24 April 1990, 8 June 1998, 10 June 1998, 26 August 2002, 2 June 2003) That fact should certainly speak for itself. MH: But it doesn't, at least not to me. The attempts on his life were BECAUSE of the information Meier brought forward. That never stopped him. That little, invisible banner that is attached to each of the bullets that missed their mark said, "We suggest a career change!" Obviously, Billy never was intimidated by that...even though he had a wife and three kids. So it seems that you're saying that his duty to try to "protect" humanity from such knowledge trumps his self-proclaimed duty to tell the truth, which actually removes the opportunity for people to take responsibility to discover the truth for themselves, i.e. to take Meier's clear, unambiguous statements and think them through for themselves. Even if crop circles were all being made by ETs and Meier said so...what's the big deal? After all, he's been publishing a record of his contacts with ETs, spanning some 68+ years, and the world didn't fall apart from it, if only the actual impact was bigger. You didn't mention that Meier has stated that the Creation itself sends impulses that certain people, who are sensitive enough to receive the impression, then contribute their own creativity to and produce the circles. He told me this in person, he's told Mariann the same thing and I think he may have said something about it in a Q&A. My point is that you "know" something for which there are opposing logical arguments, as well as Meier's clearly stated answer...which wasn't the equivalent of go figure it out for yourself. Of course we must remember that he's not infallible. The questions are: is he a liar and do you "know" something to be true that he's plainly stated isn't? DD: And why distract the Plejaren's fidgety audience with crop circles, whose relatively un-evolved creators evidently think the best way to help us is to feed us? The contact notes being a record-of-the-times, designed for the distant future, can be even better understood in light of what is being left OUT in the current era, in the same way that we can read a big story between the lines of the Gospel of Matthew, in light of the Talmud Jmmanuel. In the distant future, everybody will know what Billy was saying and - more importantly - they will understand the deadly political danger he was addressing when he, for instance, said, "The Freemansons (sic) as sort of a religious community are harmless, as is also the case with the Illuminati, a group of people who are spreading silly conspiration (sic) theories. What or who is „the New World Order“?" http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/7510.html#POST27169 MH: Again, while we are aware that threats to Billy, and any and all of us who are involved in the mission, may still be ever present, we don't live in Jmmanuel's time and the knowledge that he had of the future, even expressing to Billy that it would be in Billy's time, 2,000 years later, that the truth would finally start to be revealed, as well as all sorts of catastrophes, etc., is quite different. Even in recent contacts Ptaah has said that the changes now were unstoppable, that they would be apocalyptic, etc. That looms much larger in my mind than theoretical dangers from Freemasons as a result of their being called out by Meier. And we're told that the next 700+ years are going to be hell on earth. Using your and Vivenne's experience as a tangible example, your treatment, while harsh and unpleasant by certain standards, isn't at all comparable to the kind of imagery that you're conjuring for us and that you imply would befall the multitudes who would finally learn about the Freemasons, and/or befall Meier himself as the author of those revelations. I'm sure you're aware that the Meier case is ridiculed in many circles for many reasons. Labeling it another conspiracy group would be just adding to the labels. DD: You continue, "When I was with Billy and Christian several years ago and personally asked the question about the PoZ, he took less than a millisecond to respond about the nature and source of the hoax. So either he was telling the truth, or so afraid that the Israelis were going to descend on the center that he had a lie well prepared to protect from such an invasion. Somehow I don't buy the latter." It's not just one or the other, and Billy has "unlearnt" fear, so it's tactical. Like not revealing the Apollo 11 hoax, which would have led to endangering the FIGU folks and even to "war actions". It simply and obviously won't work if he tells certain members something different and they can then quote him. This is the man Sfath said had the intellectual level of a 35 year old man when he was 7. That gives BEAM and IQ of 500 at the age of 7. He wouldn't have needed even "less than a millisecond", Michael. Would he have needed time to think? This is the guy who - among other things - moves heavy stoves with his MIND, turns Pepsi-cola into wine, etc. etc. etc. etc. And didn't Billy state somewhere that a number of the murder attempts came from Mossad? MH: Really? Like there aren't lots of people out there who already believe that it's a dark Zionist, etc. conspiracy? Not revealing the actual details of the Apollo hoax avoided a possible missile attack on FIGU. How many other people on earth possessed that specific, detailed, accurate knowledge at the time Meier did? How many people even suspected such a thing (probably more than could prove it)? Are you aware that there are over 25,000 pages linked in google when you type in a search on the PoZ? Hey, I didn't even need an IQ of 450 to do that! I am seeing, so far, a lot of inferences, assumptions and conclusions that I wouldn't just quite yet want you to put in your library of "knowledge". Heck, some of them still sound like...beliefs to me. DD: You write, "My point is that you are still giving what he has clearly stated the old wink-wink, nudge-nudge and effectively calling him a...liar." That's right, I am, but an ethical "liar". They (and I) prefer the expression "concealer", because, here on Earth, the word "liar" carries pejorative connotations which do not, in the slightest way, apply to either Billy or the Plejaren. This is the central plank in my argument. MH: Well Billy may certainly be a good concealer but, so far, I don't think you're on to where that applies. DD: Let's not lose sight of the fact that for the first 20 years of the modern mission, Billy was reported to be in contact with people from the incandescent-hot Pleiades star cluster, and Semjase said that Kenneth Arnold saw their Pleiadian ships. (Then he didn't.) And "crop circles" are "made with rope and boards and other primitive means", etc. etc. MH: And also contained within that information, though not to be published until a certain time, was the truth and reasons for that, largely because of the virtual industry of liars that they knew would pop up. DD: You write, "We certainly don't have to accept anything/everything he says as the truth. But so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence showing that he has chosen to lie, to actually repeatedly, emphatically lie about things, instead of issuing his quite familiar responses to the effect of, "I don't know", "Figure it out yourselves", etc." The operative phrase here is, "so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence". Yes, obviously, but whose responsibility is that, my friend? We airmailed you a copy of Dr. Greer's book and you never read it. MH: That is true. In my mission related work, with the exception of having help in mailing out packages, I am alone in performing my tasks and duties. I receive so much email, unsolicited books, DVDs, letters, etc. that I cannot possibly even look at them all. And, since I still have to support myself in the middle of a major metropolis, and cover all associated costs, I focus my attention on the Meier material and the world events that I constantly scan for relevance. DD: In light of your email send-out this week http://www.angelsfortruth.com/blog/2010/03/paedophilia-satanism-vatican-gay-sex-scandal-fake-gold-army/ about the Sydney elite's ritual cannibalism of kidnapped children, and so forth, and your acceptance thereof as the truth, MH: Just so we're clear here, I remember hearing about the pedophilia in the Catholic Church as early 1955, from my mother who spoke about it. And, quite honestly, I forwarded that article to you more because it touched on some of your most important issues; I'm in no position to know or speak about the extent, scope or accuracy of the overall information. DD: I advised you privately "in the strongest possible terms" to also read (theoretical nuclear physicist) Professor Eljo Hashoff's small book about his scientific investigation into crop circles ( http://www.amazon.com/Deepening-Complexity-Crop-Circles-Scientific/dp/1583940464 ) and you told me you had neither adequate time nor interest. Don't get me wrong. I can relate to that - honestly! - but time is what's needed to get to the bottom of all this, and not just endlessly repeated unbelievable assertions and pointers from your volunteer brains trust. MH: In the priority of interests that still holds true. DD: Anyway, here's an interesting couple of paragraphs from long before so-called "crop circles" became quite so undeniably vast, complex and symbolic as they are now in the 21 Century. You wrote it. Since you were still using the word "Pleiadians", it must have been at least 15 years ago. (snip) "Crop Circles: Strangely enough, in a conversation from 1994, Meier and another contact named Ptaah dismiss the authenticity of the crop circles, and attribute them all to hoaxers. This seemed quite ridiculous to me, as the sheer intricacy, complexity and large number of crop circles appearing in sparsely populated areas in a variety of countries eliminates the likelihood of that kind of conspiracy, let alone the immense coordinated skills necessary to fabricate most of them. It should be pointed out that the photographs of the famous "landing tracks" of the Pleiadian ships presented the first close-up look at the "technology" of the crop circles. Semjase told Meier that the landing tracks were created by their beamships' anti-gravitational fields which swirled the grasses down without breaking them. It seems to me that "somebody" must have said to themselves, "Hey, let's use this technology to create deliberate patterns for the Earthlings to contemplate. We can incorporate different mathematical and symbolic messages and at the same time demonstrate how to use tremendous power creatively without killing anything!" I could be wrong, but it is ironic that Meier--himself having suffered such abuse from accusations of being a hoaxer--should be so adamant about the crop circles being hoaxed!!" http://www.theyfly.com/UFO_Mag_Article.htm (snip) MH: Actually, that still reflects some of my feelings about the matter. I'm glad to say that I don't automatically agree with Billy on everything and still have trouble with some of the things that he says are true - and probably will have even should I find out and then know for certain that they are true. I hope you understand this. You see, I'm not saying that the crop circles are made by human beings, or that they're made by ETs (though that certainly seemed more likely to me). I'm questioning what you state and HOW you KNOW it to be true. I actually have to vested interest in being "right" about it...nor in Billy being "right" either! I simply want to know the truth and, since you're so certain that it's one thing, which happens to be in disagreement with the so far most accurate source of info, I want you to back your conclusions up. Remember, you didn't say, "Well, I think it's this or that...based on my thinking through the best evidence, it appears to be such and so, etc." No. You told us you knew and so i've simply said...prove it. BTW, your admonition and reminder to think things through for ourselves, to understand how much farther ahead Meier and the Plejaren are (or maybe more accurately, to understand THAT they are so far ahead of us) is all absolutely good stuff. And even answers of yours that I find less than satisfying are worth it for the admonition/reminder contained within them. DD: You never even fully read the short "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion", nor debunked for yourself the specious conventional "wisdom" that it is a hoax. (As one example, but not the primary cause of your difficulties in finding evidence, after 30 years, 95% of the material you promote - for a living - remains hidden behind your self imposed opaque language barrier you choose not to climb over. No wonder that you state, "so far I am unfamiliar with any evidence".) I'm not. I've gone to a great deal of effort and spent most of my adult life familiarising myself with this evidence, which hides in plain sight. I make an huge volunteer effort to try to point people to the right path, but I cannot walk it for them. MH: I may want to restate or elaborate on this more in response but let me start with this. Sometimes a word to the wise is sufficient. Sure, we all want to know...MORE. But quantity isn't always quality. In other words, having been reminded of some of the core teaching in the case, i.e. self-responsibility for one's life, the monitoring of every thought, feeling and impulse to action, seeing the Creation in all people and things, contemplating the Creation, being truthful, etc. - which represents but a handful of the gems in the teaching, often repeated as they may be. In truth, if I was "rotating my attention" on these few powerful truths, and including others as they came to mind and/or became known to me, I'd be making some nice evolutionary progress in life whatever-number-this-is. I'm in the mix with more than a few billion other humans who don't know German, or don't know it well enough to really comprehend the Meier information in its source language. It's also a bit "Germanic" to throttle people over the head with "learn German!" all the time. I can tell you that in any number of conversations with Billy when I asked him about what specific thing he would like me to pursue for the mission, his answers always were along the lines of, "Teach people to be reasonable and peaceful, etc." Of course he prodded me recently by saying that our conversations together had to be in German...which had the remarkable effect of suddenly making me capable of simple, rudimentary communications with him, until my brain burned out and he mercifully clobbered me with his much better English. I'm working on it but I have no illusions of mastering the language in this go around. I do have strong intentions though of being the best, most conscious, loving, caring, logical, individual I can be, while I continue my education in this life. DD: As you point out to all your "stupid" readers, Galileo built a telescope that showed mountains on the Moon, but people wouldn't look through it. Not only will you not look through my telescope, but you insinuate that my thinking need cleaning up for reporting the things which anyone can see through it if they have the simple courage to look. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierb28.htm http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meiersb35.htm Billy writes, (from SB28) "For those interested, the following book is worth reading: "Die Protokolle der Weisen von Zion" by Jeffrey L. Sammons, Wallstein-Verlag, ISBN 3-89244.191-X." ( http://www.amazon.de/Die-Protokolle-Weisen-Zion-Antisemitismus/dp/389244191X ) Now as it turns out, Vivienne and I count ourselves among "those interested", so, on Billy's valued recommendation, we made the effort to buy and read the book, which is a rather standard (but on the shallow side) "debunk" full of glib, specious sophistry and paper-thin claims and factoids. Notably, and unusually, the entire text of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is included. But what a surprise when we read the introduction and saw that Billy's contact note comments were largely WORD-FOR-WORD plagiarisms of Sammons' book! And what cleverer, better and safer way to draw attention to something as dangerous as this than to say things like: The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is stupid. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is unbelievably idiotic. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is an evil racist hoax. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is the work of vicious anti-Semites. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is tiresomely repetitive. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is this. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is that. The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". The "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" blah blah blah. Get my point? Not just clever - unbelievably clever. MH: ...or what a clever, better, safe simple, and economical way to deal with something deserving of no more!!!!!!!! Yikes, do you have ANY idea of how rigidly you enforce your own assumptions, inferences, interpretations and beliefs? Apart from being quite intellectually adept...do you possess some reasonable level of honest introspection, of objective evaluation of what may, just may MAY be symptomatic of something quite opposite to what you seem to ASSUME it is? DD: You write, "I think it's time that you either come right out and say that he's lying, and explain how you know (not believe) that to be true and how your knowledge of the truthfulness of these conspiracies trumps his, or maybe admit that you are the one still holding on firmly to unsubstantiated information." What I'm doing (again) here now is trying to show my substantiation. If the "information" (your word), defined in the dictionaries as "facts", is unsubstantiated for you, (it's not for me or any other diligent student of the truth) it's merely because you still have to try to make the effort to substantiate it for yourself. You have to learn both the languages of German and symbols, That's what's required of you, and much, much, much more. But a lot can still be gained by simply checking every statement made by Billy slamming conspiracies to see whether they are consistent with each other. The things he said were way too stupid for someone so obviously smart. http://theyfly.com/Knowledge_and_Wisdom_END_Anti-Semitism.htm You conclude, "Whichever the case may be, since this issue colors your own thinking about a few things, since you are holding it as inner truth to which the rest of us are either unknowing or willfully blind ... " It's not an "inner" truth. The operative clause here is, "the rest of us are either unknowing or willfully blind". You mean the English-language forum, I take it. This "rest" naturally doesn't include my private German-language correspondents, and fellow students of the Prophet's teachings of the truth, and the vital historical context in which it MUST be viewed, who are unwilling to do what I do and hang out with my homies here on this forum because they are "disgusted" with the level of ignorance and high-handed arrogance evinced here. There is an entire world of serious scholarship underpinning the quiet revolution of truth, but - by its very nature - it's not in English and not on this English-language forum either. Not your fault, OK? Not your language. It's being cryptically concealed from you by being written in German. I - almost single-handedly - am trying to reveal it here and it's not always welcome and the messenger dodges proverbial bullets sometimes. I accept and understand that, but the English-language forum has never been cleaner and healthier than it is now, so I'll continue to make the effort for a while longer, until I feel it's responsible of me to return to my (horribly interrupted) pile of unfinished translations. MH: Things may or may not be cryptically concealed from me because they are in German. I don't think that's actually the question at this point. What I am addressing isn't, as far as I'm concerned, a matter of anything except that you state that something that we are reading in English means something other than it appears to say. Now that certainly is a possibility. But so far as I can see here, you have been offering your interpretations, assumptions, etc., which you have labeled as your "knowing". And you're quite generous in thumping people over the head for not learning German and being able to discuss it at that level. Don't also people question and disagree in...German? Or is it really that simple, that if the "rest of us" were fluent in German we'd see things as they obviously are to you. Hey, cut us a little slack here, it's actually (in my mind) still a simpler proposition. You see things, and vigorously proclaim, things that some of us don't. At least we're not throwing you in jail for it. DD: " ... it's long past high time to clean it [Dyson's thinking] up." I hope that you can see from the URLs I'm providing, that I've been trying my modest best to explain the cause of my informed thinking for those of you who cannot read the texts and are either too busy or too apathetic to do the required background research. I don't need to "clean up" my thinking, Michael. There's far too much brainwashing on this sad planet already. MH: I suggest not overlooking the possibility that you have also succumbed to it in some ways, being apparently somewhat predisposed towards. As a personal example, when we met at the Nexus conference in Australia a few years ago, I was at that time struck by your overt suspicions expressed towards a number of people attending, simply based on some very fleeting interactions, or even non-interactions with them. To put it another way, I was surprised at how few people went unnoticed or unremarked about in a suspicious way by you. My own thoughts at the time were that you exhibited symptoms of paranoia. Of course, there's that wonderful old saying, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone's not out to get you." And also of course, some things can produce self-fulfilling prophecies. DD: Here's "cryptic" for you. When the modern (1975) component of the mission started, Billy was evidently OK with being (VERY falsely!) characterised as a "simple" (read "stupid") one-armed Swiss farmer (read "stupid and parochial") with a 6th grade education (read "stupid, parochial and ignorant"). Naturally, his biography has expanded in the intervening 35 years. Now this is not lying, but it's pretty cryptic and a long way from being generous with the truth, that Billy is the wisest man who ever lived. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/nokodemion.htm MH: I think that you have just given a textbook example of interpretation, slant, etc. Just WHY should we read "stupid, parochial and ignorant"? I actually think that being simple in itself doesn't negate any other qualities, depth of feeling, knowledge, etc. For me, it describes someone who conducts himself without artifice, pretense, unnecessary words, strange behaviors and the like. Sure, some people may try to use those words as pejoratives but it doesn't make it so...for everyone. DD: OM, Kanon 20:38 "Denn es ist dem Menschen entschwunden die Gesinnung der Bemühung, dass die Wahrheit soll erarbeitet werden durch eigene Kraft des Denkens und Forschens und Erkennens. 39. Also hat er sich gewandelt in der Form zum Irren, dass er nur noch das annehmen will als Wahrheit, das er mit seinen Händen berühren kann, und das er mit seinen Augen sehen kann, und das er mit seinen Ohren hören kann. 40. Es ist dies aber der Weg der Falschheit und des reinen Materiellen, der jeder Bemühung des Selbstdenkens, des Selbstfühlens, des Selbstforschens, des Selbstsuchens und der Selbsterkennung jeglicher Lösung und Wahrheit Hohn spricht und spottet. 41. Also ist nicht gegeben dadurch der Weg zur Erforschung der Wahrheit und der Findung der Wahrheit, weshalb durch den JHWH und durch den Propheten keine Zeichen oder nur sehr sparsam Zeichen gegeben sein sollen, die da von der Wahrheit zeugend sind. 42. Gegeben ist das Wort der Wahrheit, und dieses ist genügsam vollauf, um die Lehren der Wahrheit zu offenbaren für jene, die da sind willig, die Mühsal der Erlernung durch eigene Kraft anzugehen und zu tragen."" (The Earth human’s sense of effort towards seeking the truth has disappeared. He has lost the inclination to seek the truth through his inherent power of thinking, searching and recognizing. Therefore he has turned to the erroneous form of thinking, that he will only accept as true that which he can touch with his hands and that which he can see with his eyes and that which he can hear with his ears. But this is the false, purely material way, which mocks and scorns any effort of self-thinking, self-feeling, self-searching, self-seeking and self-recognition for every solution and truth. Therefore through this, the way to the searching for the truth, and the finding of the truth, is not provided. And so, through the JHWH and the Prophet, no signs, or only sparse signs, should be given, that testify to the truth. The word of truth is given, and this is wholly sufficient to reveal the teaching of the truth for any who are willing to make and to bear the effort of learning through their own power.) http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/omintro.htm The language problem: It has several facets. One is that I seem to have to continually repeat that 95% of the texts upon which I rely for my information from Billy and his ET contacts is in German only, and, obviously, not accessible to non-German readers, such as yourself. I've done my best, and will continue to do my best to try to amend this deplorable situation, but it pays to reflect on the fact that some dumb Earth dude (me) is doing it, and not the unimaginably better qualified and unimaginably more intelligent Plejaren linguists. Why? Are they deliberately concealing these teachings from all but the German language proficient? 25,000 pages. Think about it. That situation makes it utterly impossible to adequately grasp the big picture - unless you read German, as I, of course, do. I had to teach myself - as an adult. It took time. It was difficult and very tedious. And I've still got a lot to learn. And I had to learn a hellava lot of English too. I also had to teach myself the arcane language of symbols. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meierv7p22-23.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meierv5p50-52.htm http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/awordaboutwords.htm Another facet of the language problem is that Billy and the Plejaren use words in a way that I consider a serious form of "language-abuse", but of course - and this is the pivotal point - they do this ONLY in order to help us and protect us from things that they know are not good for us. I know (not believe) that this is their sole motivation, however offensive and patronising that may seem to my fellow pre-human Earthlings who think that Planet Suicide here is the centre of the universe and we Earth "humans" represent the One Great Shining Jewel in the Gleaming Crown of Creation. MH: Perhaps but I am just a wee bit troubled when I read " I know (not believe) that this is their sole motivation". Might it not just be your...interpretation, present conclusion, assumption? Possibly, might it just not be your perspective, instead of the almighty TRUTH? DD: Let me give you an example of the sort of language-abuse I mean, by directing you to a very recent translation of mine from back in May 2000, http://theyfly.com/Concealment_vs_Lies.htm and by offering a hypothetical situation as a parallel. You come to visit me in Tasmania and - for no apparent reason - I punch you playfully in the nose. You say, "Ouch! Why did you punch me in the nose?" and I say, "Michael, mate! I never! Here in Tasmania, we call that 'a kiss on the cheek'!" The fact of the matter is that no matter what it may be called in Tasmania, you've got a sore hooter and not a kiss on the cheek in the sense that that English language expression is commonly known in every other place that speaks English. Me telling you that your sore beak is the result of a kiss on the cheek is obviously nonsense. - Obviously. - And to historically assert that I've never ever punched anyone in the nose, and then - some years later - explain that, when "punch in the nose" is conventionally said, I say, "kiss on the cheek" instead. Various people, including a high profile FUGU K49er, have stated that Billy would never lie. Certainly, as one of his strongest public defenders and supporters, me branding him an (ethical) liar would hurt the mission and impact on T-shirt sales, but that is, and always has been, my assertion and I stick to it. MH: Would you actually let a commercial consideration, i.e. T-shirt sales, stand in the way of revealing the truth? After all, we could make a T-shirt that says: Billy Meier is an ethical liar! (you could have your name, or "According to Dyson Devine", etc. there too...in the font of your choice). DD: Let me just make the point abundantly clear that the truths I choose to reveal from Billy's texts, etc., can indeed damage the mission in the short term in the eyes of those who want a lot of oil and balsam, but these harsh and iconoclastic truths will ultimately be what's required to actually advance the quiet revolution in the long term, where it really counts. MH: Just wondering, did you possibly, by some stretch of the imagination mean -but forgot - to say, "The truths AS I UNDERSTAND THEM from..."? DD: Using the word "lie" in the conventional English-language sense to mean; "a deliberate untruth calculated to deceive", yes, Billy and the Plejaren do lie (ethically). (Professor Deardorff independently reached that blindingly obvious conclusion too.) But, of course, by their own idiosyncratic (by terrestrial standards) definitions, they certainly NEVER lie. On Earth, liars are the deepest type of lowlife. But from Erra and from The Prophet, the "lies" are for our own good and an absolute requirement for the viability of the vital mission. In short: Earth liars are bad. Plejaren "liars" are good, and we Earth folks ignorantly use the word "lie" wrong anyway. We all learnt from the Bafath. We now all have a lot to re-learn. What Sfath has to say about how Billy does his wonderful work: Contact Reports, Volume 1 Pages 11-20, Sfath's Explanation to 7 year old Eduard, February 3rd, 1945. 48. Gib stets alles, was du zu geben vermagst, wenn die Menschen bereit sind zu empfangen. 48. Constantly give everything that you are able to give, if the humans are ready to receive. 49. Gib jedoch niemals mehr hinsichtlich der Lehre, ihres Wissens und ihrer Weisheit, als die Menschen fähig sind, alles zu verstehen und zu verkraften. 49. However never give more, in respect of the teaching, its knowledge and its wisdom, than the humans are capable of understanding and coping with. 50. Die Regel beweist, dass sie immer mehr wissen wollen, als ihr Verstand zu verkraften vermag, deshalb sei dir gesagt, dass du immer nur gerade soviel Wissen und Weisheit lehren und preisgeben sollst, wie der augenblickliche Stand des Verstehens der Menschen dies verlangt. 50. The rule proves that they always want to know more than their understanding can cope with, so, for that reason, be told that you should always teach and give away only as much knowledge and wisdom as is demanded by the immediate state of the humans' understanding. 51. Steigt das Verstehen und Erfassen der tatsächlichen Wahrheit in bezug auf den Stoff des Lernens, dann kann dem neuen Verstehen gemäss die Lehre in ihrem Wert und in ihren Einzelheiten erweitert werden. 51. If the understanding and grasping of the actual truth climbs in regards to the learning material, then the new understanding can be expanded in its value and its details in accord with the teachings. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.v1p11-20.htm Yes, so have you somehow penetrated to the TRUTH and are now revealing more than what we can "cope" with? Or is it possible that you've actually missed what's being said here: 51. If the understanding and grasping of the actual truth climbs in regards to the learning material, then the new understanding can be expanded in its value and its details in accord with the teachings. ...could more of us than you may imagine actually be capable of "understanding and grasping of the actual truth" and going on about it, with some slips and misunderstandings here and there? And could part of the problem be your own absolutely unwavering certainty that we're all...missing it? Is it just possible that your interpretations, inferences, assumptions, suspicions aren't necessarily entirely, or even less, accurate? I have to keep asking because we're almost done here and I'm none the more enlightened in some key areas. The best thing for me so far is the pointer towards more and more thinking, examination, etc. but certainly not your less compelling conclusions, as revelatory as you may be finding them. DD: So that's my effort. I hope that has addressed you questions, Michael, and the leads I've provided can be instructive. I reiterate that Billy, as The One True Prophet, has one methodology, as stated above by Sfath, and we Earth humans have a completely different way of going about things. He must reveal only what we are ready for, and we must show him that we have done our own work and our own thinking, and are ready for more. Only then will he provide it. I came to Billy from the Disclosure Project and all its whistleblowing former men-in-black, MILAB guys, etc. I spent years trying to tell the dogmatic devotees buzzing around Billy that his harsh assessment that abductees were largely attention seekers, etc., was not entirely consistent with the evidence. Only after I did this, and copped a lot of flak for my trouble, did Billy and Ptaah reveal the truth in 2007. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv7p438-444.htm It is in this hope for more help, and in this spirit - as well as to provide leads to genuine truth seekers here - that I have written this. I apologise for offending those who are offended because I said too much and to those who are offended because I didn't say enough. Cheers! Dyson der Vorausschauende MH: I'm jumping here to say thanks for your efforts. Obviously I still don't think that you've answered, or acknowledged some basic points/questions. While I appreciate that you diligently reference things form the teaching, etc. and feel it may be necessary in order to make your case and accurately respond, I'm still stuck with the feeling that you project a lot from your own preconceptions, predisposition to see conspiracies in everything, etc. Some people are more literal in their perceptions, i.e. "Hello!" means "Hello!" and not "I'm gonna get you!", as people who are more inferential and paranoid in their perceptions/interpretations of things are. Nonetheless, thanks. And I'm sure that there will be many, and probably differing, opinions. Cheers and Salome. MH | ||
Ravi New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2008 |
Hi Dyson, interesting post you have, confused me a bit but made me think a lot =) Do you have any link where Billy said "Don't even believe me!" as you stated above, I am very curious in what context it was said. Thanks, Ravi | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 518 Registered: 03-2007 |
Hello Michael and Dyson My appreciation extends to both of you for sharing your thoughts. Before coming upon the Meir material, I had a deep and profound interest in studying crop designs. No, not the simple crop circles which can be created with boards and rope, I mean the intricate ones which came later after the label and now misnomer “crop circle” had stuck. The three most significant characteristics which stood out for me which cannot be easily explained away are: 1) the residual electromagnetic field signatures; 2) incidence of unbroken crop stalk that continued to grow but remaining in the bent over position; and 3) the numerous eye-witness reports of designs appearing in fields within a very short time frame. An example of the latter are people driving in cars down a road adjacent to the crop field and returning from the opposite direction ten minutes later with the most impressive geometric design now appearing where none could be seen before. My interest in studying crop designs was two-fold; it was a natural spin-off of my burgeoning fascination of the phi ratio appearing in nature and now suddenly showing up in crop designs; and it seemed to hold the potential for confirmation of an ET presence. It is one thing to create a complex design on the computer and quite another thing altogether to carry out and execute that design in real life and not leave any evidence that you had been there. I attended lectures of the most prominent researchers in the field (no pun intended) who developed their own theories and read every book on the subject. During that period, I met someone who claimed to know as fact that the intricate ones were being created at Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York and that it was no coincidence that they aligned with certain energy grids appearing naturally on earth. I, of course, have no way of knowing if that is true or not. But I can conceive that a nation that plays with the ionosphere and HAARP could also have the capability and will to remotely generate crop designs for any number of reasons including the conditioning of the mass consciousness for a staged alien invasion. And, I can also conceive that Billy can make such a statement that crop circles are mostly made from rope and boards and have that statement be true, since most of the designs today are not simply circles. Kind regards Bob | ||
Justsayno Member Post Number: 183 Registered: 10-2009 |
Hi Bob, I, like yourself have also been studying crop circles. Thought I had it all figured out until I posed this question to Billy in the Q&A: Dear Billy, thank you for your many words of wisdom. Just wondering who supplied the crop circles and if there is real meaning to it or is it the greys coming to eat fungus? I think that it was made in a wheat field to draw our attention to the fact that there are hardly any wheats fields which are not genetically modified and to the fact that wheat is "killed" before harvest. I don't know if this is relevant, but in the same field there was natural gas found measuring over 1 million feet per day. As far as the actual symbols, I think the one on the left represents earth. The middle one represents our sun, with solar flares going counter and clockwise. The circle on the right represents venus as it is the only planet that rotates clockwise (and the only flattened circle which is in a clockwise pattern). The bottom outer ring also has a path from the middle to the outer ring, which cannot be seen from aerial photographs. I'm not sure if it represents Nibiru/Planet X or a comet or black hole. It seems to tell us that something big is coming. Is my interpretation correct? Peace and Love Sheila Answer: All of the so-called crop circles are man-made. (Note by CF: English researchers have found out that about 95% of all crop circles in Great Britain are man-made. The producers (human beings of earth) of the rest of of it (5%) obviously were smarter and used methods that have not yet been detected.) By this time I had already watched the DVD called Crop Circles The Hidden Truth http://www.richplanet.net/detail.php?dbindex=207 There seems to be a relationship between the crop circles and the MI5. The thing that got me was when the farmer said he saw tubes of light coming from the sky. Also there's this moron called flowerbower on youtube who has confessed to having NATO documents on his desk, does not work for MoD, but had applied and was hired in some other area like the MoD. He also confessed to having faked ufo's and crop circles. Now the crop circles in the UK did start with simple circles and have evolved into some spectacular pictures. In Canada we rarely have crop circles (and we have so much canvas) - funny the last one found in this area in August 2001 was the symbol on the Israeli flag. Here's my circles: http://www.shrinesandsacredsites.com/cropcircle.htm And wouldn't you know it sits on an energy grid (#8). The testimony from the person at Pelican Point which stated the craft went straight up and disappeared. My neighbour hearing the sounds somewhat like the beamship. Except she explained it like it was sonar going really fast. The fact that it was one of the bigger finds of natural gas in the area (not common knowledge). On Tom Beardan's site, scalar may be responsible for crop circles. I'm surprised Dyson didn't pick up on that. http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm Dear Dyson, I have some of the wheat seed from my crop circle which I'm going to plant this spring and will compare it to "normal" (if there is such a thing) wheat. Do you think I should compare it to organic wheat (if I can find any) or should I use the same brand that was planted? "How the hell would you know what my line looks like, it's imaginary." - my Dad, after being told by the police to walk a straight line. | ||
Smukhuti Member Post Number: 275 Registered: 06-2009 |
In Contact 235 it is mentioned that Meier traveled with Quetzal to various places including England to observe how crop circles were formed; on one instance in 1983 near Cheesefoot Head, Hampshire, England they observed "half of the village population" took part in trampling the crops as a hoax. Meier also saw similar events in Russia, Canada, Brazil, America & Switzerland. Now, here what I found in the internet regarding very believable "eyewitness" account in Cheesefoot Head, 1989: http://www.colinandrews.net/CheesefootHead-PatDelgado.html The report mentions "This field was personally significant to us as it hosted the first circles that Pat saw in 1981 and the first circles I saw, a set of five in a cross formation, in 1983. " Apart from hoaxing attempts, somewhere (I could not find the reference) it is mentioned that there are certain external forces which affect few gifted individuals who in turn produces the most beautiful crop circles by hand by using the corn fields as canvas. The symbols used in crop circles are often un-concioussly fetched from the storage banks by these few individuals. Sorry I could not find the reference and give a better explanation even after 1 hour of searching, but it is certainly from the Meier material. Salome. Suv | ||
Kingman Member Post Number: 785 Registered: 07-2004 |
Two cents. After contemplating the crop circle mystery I concluded(like how I qualify with a finalizer) they are made for several reason's and by differing methods. Here then are my results: Crop circles can made by us in the form of planks and rope. Crop circles can be made by Earthlings from the future. Crop circles can be made by those in the Black-ops group through current hidden technology. Crop circles can occur due to landings of ET ships and their drive systems. Crop circles can be made by a collective consciousness effort of Earth folk who may not know of their efforts. When Billy says " Do not even believe me...", I think he means that if we do not think about things for ourself and reason something out, we will continue along the way of disaster that effects all our societies. I don't think he is saying, "Hey look, I could be lying for all you know". 'Know' being the key word here, not 'lying'. I think the idea about the visitors from our future, I am of the thought that they may use this crop circle effect as a way to calibrate their time traveling equipment. The designs/crops are eventually harvested and new crops are planted. The large, seen from high up images are easily scanned by their viewers and time frames can be established by their viewing of the crop circle changes. This being said shows that England is far ahead of other nations in time travel than the rest of the world, possibly. How do I know all this? I don't, this is what I think. Much thanks to Billy and anyone who has helped in translating his material, as well as anyone who has posted questions to Billy regarding crop circles. Crop circles do play a part in Billy's mission as we shall eventually find out. Controversy has been Billy's best method in getting the message out, wouldn't you agree? a friend in america Shawn | ||
Msmichelle Member Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2010 |
I agree with Michael that Dyson is projecting his own interpetations in the Contact Note translations to English and using his knowledge of some German (because no one is a master of any language) to degrade most English speaking people. Dyson....we are not your enemy here...yes I would agree this planet especially the USA has it's problems...but we are all here to learn and grow. Dyson...I am grateful for your translations of the Contact Notes and other material but only if it's in Billy's and his ET associates' words only....it's confusing to have your conclusions and assumptions included...allow me to draw my own conclusions based on my evolutionary level. That's why it's refreshing to have Benjamin's website....I know it's not perfect...but it allows me to think....and reflect and make decisions which will lead me further to the truth. peace | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1224 Registered: 10-2007 |
***** Best Greetings Dyson, Michael, et. al., I will withhold judgment in all this, and will certainly offer some opinions from my own contemplation. It does gall me when I see Billy or anyone respond to someones' question with: "You should learn German." Ja, it should be so EASY. Dyson, you yourself say your own understanding has a long way to go. Your translations are the best among many. I only wish that Billy had been born in Kansas, USA., then the MAJORITY of Humans on Earth would understand the Mission and Messages (and Codex) directly in English. Well, it has taken me two full days to read through your post and all the URL links and side trips. I must say that your substantiation, evidence, and other correlations would probably stand up in court (except in Sydney). One link always lead to several more, and was a really good education, despite having seen many on your original website. The greatest surprise came in link to the original letter from the Plejarens to the USAmerica government President to form an alliance with the Plejarens way back in 1979. The main problem in that letter being the over-emphasis on "what is 'wrong' with all the religious cults." The USA was founded on freedom of religion (or non-religion) which should be separate from any interference from the state. The Plejaren demands amounted to an overthrow of the basic Constitution. Do you or anyone wonder why this initiative failed.??? 'Demands' such as that constitute INTERFERENCE with an established government. That many crop circle are the real-deal is a "given," not worthy of further elucidation. WE only need to understand the messages. That the PoZ is an "inside-job" (similar to certain Nazi tactics) is also patently obvious. The poor "Jewish" used for cannon fodder are as ignorant as the unholy roman pope (though obviously not as dangerous as el-papa). Yup, I also have and have read all those books from Dr. Steven Greer, and those from Tom Bearden, Guido Moosbrugger, Marcia Schafer, Jane Roberts, Robert A. Monroe, Michael Wolf, Dr. Thomas G. Brophy, John Major Jenkins, Stephen Hawking, Gregg Braden, Michael A. Cremo, Alan Watts, Jose Arguelles, Walter Crutenden, Dr. Bruce Rosenblum and Billy Meier - to name just a few from my extensive library. Knowledge from all such sources means nothing, unless it is Synthesized, Internalized and creates a new living vision of the wonders of Creation. One of my greatest "tests" or "lessons" has been to control my anger whenever I run into stupidity. This has been an ongoing lesson, over and over, which I am slowly getting right -- that is: to see and accept the Negative and the Positive in all things, thereby to realize there is always a neutral balance. Yes, you do know the concept of the Neutral-Positive balance in all things (yes?). Then why so quick to go overboard? That "central plank" of yours might only be anchored at one end, the other hanging out over the deep. There are some 24,000 more pages in German which need to be made into some understandable language form. Peace ***** ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 194 Registered: 07-2009 |
This is the site/guy/film I mentioned before: http://www.richplanet.net/detail.php?dbindex=207 I think he made the best case for the human component and the more sophisticated methodologies than boards and ropes. | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 1344 Registered: 02-2000 |
I have to add my two cents. Randy Winters salted his Meier info with his ideas & research. Dyson you hammered Randy for doing it. Now you seem to be doing the same thing. Your entitled to your opinion. But I prefer to stick with what Billy says. I've read a ton of conspiracy books & now I don't believe much of it anymore. It had me spinning in circles. I went from William Moore 20 years ago to David Icke 10 years ago. Even though there are secret groups etc. out there its virtually impossible to uncover what's really going on unless you have the abilities of the Plejaren Federation. Anything anyone else says is just their theory. My Website | ||
Darren Member Post Number: 202 Registered: 07-2009 |
I used to think that crop circles were made by ET's because they (all the good intricate ones) appeared to be always made faultlessly; something that always puzzled me because that wouldn't happen if it were citizens hoaxing it. Thats why I believed that. Then I read in the Meier material that it was our secret services behind it, something I didn't originally consider because that would explain it. A group of professional SS people trained in creating crop circles could/can pull them off faultlessly. Thats my opinion now. | ||
Sanjin Member Post Number: 121 Registered: 06-2009 |
In relation to the topic of Billy concealing information, here is a quote from the Goblet of Truth. The translation goes against the notion that it is rightful when Billy conceals the truth from us. 2:83)Never shall falseness be mixed with truth, nor shall truth be knowingly concealed. 2:83)Niemals soll Falschheit mit Wahrheit vermengt, noch die Wahrheit wissentlich verhehlt werden. But the problem is that there is no such concept as "verhehlen" in the English language; or at least the translators and I have not found it yet. To conceal is said "verheimlichen" in German, but verhehlen is different, since it is much more negative. For example, when the Federal Reserve conceals information about their contracts and trades in order to rob the American people blind, that is considered verhehlen. When I conceal this information from some people and only tell it to certain people in order to protect myself from getting into trouble, that is considered verheimlichen. 36.The human is another person, when, surrounded by the rays of the heavenly creational sunrise, the pure delight of awakening nature streams through him. | ||
Indi Moderator Post Number: 428 Registered: 06-2006 |
Dear Sanjin I don't understand why you say that "there is no such concept as "verhehlen" in the English language". I think that in this and other cases you have mentioned there are no concepts in English to be found, but maybe instead it is that you have not found it, rather than it not being there to be found? A word in another language, does not have to have an equivalent word in another language, instead often, the way it is used, and the context, and a few words used instead, give the reader or listener a clear understanding of the 'concept' being offered. words don't have much meaning on their own, only within context, which is how we glean the meaning intended. Robyn | ||
Gaiaguysnet Member Post Number: 1081 Registered: 03-2004 |
Dear Michael (& ors) Thanks for your replies to my replies to your questions to me. I hope my replies to your replies to my replies will help enlighten you instead of further confusing you, but, naturally, with each subsequent iteration, more of the essential context, framework, background, perspective, etc., is lost to us, and it is this concept of context which I want to address in this contribution, and I'll also make yet another attempt to deal with the language problem - this time, I hope, a little more clearly and simply. I'll also touch on the nature of belief. I'll also have to reply at a later date to others who've asked me questions or made comments which should be responded to, that darn "real world" out there once again interfering with my reality here. (Joke.) I'll continue to do my modest best to follow the teachings revealed here: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.sww.kritikundkritik.htm I'll start with a couple of general observations and then try, once again, to answer the more specific questions you put to me. Regarding my second above paragraph, as you know, our perennially recurring private email debates which are based on these themes, (being what I claim as knowledge, which - in the absence of your own research - you take to be merely unsubstantiated - and unsubstantiatable - beliefs, delusions, paranoid fantasies, etc., on my part) have sometimes degenerated to the point where an independent observer would justifiably perceive two stubborn old men beating some poor weakened horse who's just this side of death, if not already gone. So I hope we can avoid that public spectacle here, and just respectfully agree to disagree about the nature and extent of the true truth. At the very least we can certainly agree that it is truly true that the truth is not merely a subjective concept, but has a wider objective reality, and is eternal, immutable, etc. Without that common ground between us, I would have already long ago abandoned the quixotic quest I'm on here. Perhaps we can also agree with Semjase that the truth is a powerful elemental force, and the following too: OM 53:378 Die Schöpfung ist der Weg, die Wahrheit und das Leben. (Creation is the way, the truth and life.) OM 57:31 Wer nicht für und mit die Wahrheit ist, der ist wider sie. (He who is not for and with the truth is against it.) Suv, I think you may have overlooked where I wrote "(excerpted from And Yet They Fly)" in relation to the dates to do with the Bafath, etc. The original book by Guido Moosbrugger, called, "Und Sie Fliegen Doch!" was published in 1991, and the corrections for those erroneous dates came much later. I'm glad you drew our attention to them, as there remains, as you know, much confusion about the chronology of these and several other ancient events. Thomas, I'll address you now, if I may. You and I go back a long way together - before both Matthew eras (in which I abandoned ship) - and we have both openly acknowledged each other's respective strengths and weaknesses and the fact that we've locked horns with each other in the past. Nothing wrong with that. I say all this because I think that you know me well enough by now to know that I am absolutely nauseated by cringing, fawning, ingratiating lickspittles who are so stupid and such poor judges of my character that they erroneously believe they can somehow score points with me, or raise themselves in my view, with flattery and sycophancy. You are NOT at all like that, of course. In fact you are, like me, quite the opposite and that should also be obvious to all of us from your postings here. I respect that about you. You are also obviously someone who is trying very hard, with good and commendable results, to overcome your tendency to get angry, when opposed, and storm off, so I admit that I do try to be unusually tactful with you so as to avoid upsetting you. I hope telling you this doesn't upset you! :-) Anyway, suffice it to say that - since you brought it up, and for the sake of defending the unpopular truth - I would merely ask you to consider the evidence you have to support your conclusions about this: "But just keep in mind that people remember that it was you and your partner that blatantly ignored what warnings and advice were given you by not only BEAM himself but also Ptaah." This a a grotesque error of fact. Here's what I wrote on this forum, in great haste, on December 14th, 2007: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/863/7634.html#POST30457 "At the 457th contact [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_457] on Wednesday, December 12th, 2007 at 2:43PM, typed out by Billy and faxed to KG49 Elisabeth Grüber about four hours later and emailed and received by us (with great technical difficulty) almost immediately, Ptaah forcefully personally advised Vivienne and me, after all of his clarifications (Abklärungen) [in that contact alone. No others ever existed] that the entire gaiaguys website should be dissolved (taken down) as hurriedly as possible. Of course we followed this guidance without needless delay. Ptaah’s constructively critical advice was originally prompted by the concerns of other Australian FIGU members. As recently mentioned on our (ex) website, our private communications are now being badly thwarted, and some attempts to communicate directly with the SSSC have been returned with the notice, “FIGU.ORG – no such domain” so we have had to go through a chain of intermediaries which has evidently led to various misunderstandings. This is why I now write here, and express Vivienne’s and my heartfelt thanks to all those who have tried to contact us with their love, support and encouragement, who have either not gotten through or have not received our replies. We particularly express our gratitude to Ptaah for his wise/loving, but harsh, advice, as well as - of course - Billy, who approached our JHWH, Florena, and all our other FIGU friends who helped bring this assistance about." Now there's a bit of a catch-22 at work here, since you believe Billy, but you obviously don't believe me. That's OK, Thomas. He's The Prophet and I'm just this guy, right? I defend your right to believe whatever you want to believe, but let me just state that - in spite of Billy's (translated) statement: (Ptaah: ... Vivienne/Dyson should immediately take down their website and dissolve it definitely ... ) (Billy: ... I have already advised both of them of the same, but without success ... ) that is simply not true. And I defy you to find a jot of evidence to prove otherwise. I'll happily submit to a lie detector test. The fact of the matter is that all our communications were being so badly disrupted that Billy's advice never ever reached us. All we got was third of fourth-hand propositions that we should remove our information about the cult in question and apologise to them (as Billy did to the Raelians), along with similar vague second or third hand opinions that there was not the slightest grain of truth to anything at all in Dr. Reina Michaelson's testimonies which were the source of the religious vilification litigation against her and us. Our fruitless thwarted efforts for some clarification of this idea then suddenly, and utterly unexpectedly, led to contact 457. I remind you that FIGU actually linked to our site from page seven of one of their bulletins published just two months earlier, so it's not like we saw anything coming, nor had we any reason to suspect that "God" Himself was just about to give us an ear-full and tell us we should pull the plug on our 5,593-file-huge-private-out-of-pocket-whistleblowers'-website ("in its current form" was Ptaah's qualification.) http://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/bulletin/figu_sonder_bulletin_40.pdf?download Anyway, as Jim Deardorff put it so well, "People believe whatever they want to believe" and Billy and the Plejaren (and even I) not only recognise this as a basic human right, we even sometimes encourage it. I've digressed a bit, but Michael also made a crack about the prison time Vivienne and I did, so I just wanted to correct you about your forum statement, "But just keep in mind that people remember that it was you and your partner that blatantly ignored what warnings and advice were given you by not only BEAM himself but also Ptaah." - simply for the sake of the very dangerous truth, as difficult as it may still be for normal people to uncover in this case. OK? We took down the domain as soon as we got the word. Suffice it to say that there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. I am not, under the bizarre circumstances, in the slightest ashamed of being sent to prison (quite the contrary!) and we remain legally forbidden to reveal much more, under serious threat of further very lengthy imprisonment. I'll remind you that (framed, according to Ptaah's statement, made several years later) Wendelle Stevens did several years, and Billy's an ex-con too. I can think of others. Anyway, back to the job at hand. Context is absolutely essential to an adequate understanding of reality. The Plejaren cosmonauts like to nestle their flying saucers among tree branches to (try to!) make photo ops for instruments of analysis and reasonable people, which depict large objects at a distance, not just small models suspended in front of the camera lens. They do this in order to provide the physical context to show their ships for what they really are. (But they don't give rides to the public, nor do they allow themselves to be photographed, and they can be very cryptic about all sorts of other things too.) All of Billy's precious teachings are not worth the paper they are written on if they cannot be understood in the context in which they exist. If he says, love your neighbour, how can you do that if you do not know what love is and you don't know the meaning of the word neighbour? If he says, the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion and crop circles are a simple hoaxes, how can you know whether that's true or not without first doing your own independent research? (And I mean REAL research - not just googling around through the rising sea of chaff - consisting of experience as well as buying and reading (and comprehending!) many books and eventually achieving a real and deep understanding of broad and specific realms of science and history, etc.) To just blindly accept Billy's word for it ON FAITH is exactly the dogma that we all agree here to reject and it stands at the very heart of Billy's message to us. Without understanding the background in which Billy's statements exist, his statements are meaningless. This is an unavoidable axiom and applies across the board to every single fact without any exceptions whatsoever. That is so obvious and in-yer-face that we often miss it - not seeing the forest for the trees. Incidentally, dear Ravi (WELCOME!) - these recent forum contributions of mine (full of careless typos) are rush-jobs during a relatively full period in my "real life" so I haven't spent the time doing as much digging as I otherwise would, but I think that Billy's comments (about not believing even him) may have at least been in the booklet, "An Interview with a UFO Contactee", among other translated places. Can someone help Ravi and me here please? Rightio. Onto your continuing difficulties, Michael. I'll try to address them one at a time. (And just let me reiterate that I do sincerely appreciate the opportunity you are affording me to clarify these matters for others. I was always a little bothered that these Big Themes, with which we have customarily dealt in our private email correspondences, were not elucidated for others.) You write, "MH: So far, it appears to me that your claim, in your answer to my question about the crop circles, that you 'know - with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, etc.'" Actually, my answer was not ONLY to your "question about the crop circles". Michael, you actually asked me, "Since we're all about the harsh language of truth here, why do you continue to maintain that Meier is effectively lying to us all regarding: the crop circles not being of ET origin, his emphatic declarations that the PoZ [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion] is a hoax, and his comments about other conspiracies with which you clearly disagree, etc.?" And my answer was not ONLY that I "know - with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, etc." What I ACTUALLY answered was "Well, obviously, because I know - with a few logical qualifications - that Billy is concealing the truth for the vital safety of the mission, and from those among us who don't/can't do their homework and therefore can't emotionally cope with it coming from him. We are told repeatedly that they (BEAM & Co.) cannot do it. WE have to do it for ourselves. It's the only way it will work." This is my secondary reason, within this forum contribution, for stressing the need for adequate context. Not only is the understanding of the greater scientific and historical context for Billy's statements required to pass accurate judgement on them, an adequate context for edited quotes is also required here in order to correctly understand what is being communicated. You've removed that context. But I'll press on and attempt to satisfy your enquiries. Regarding the safety of the Plejaren mission and field forms, crop glyphs, crop circles, grain circles, whatever: it's my understanding, from what the Plejaren state, that any overt contact by any other ET group would - due to the Plejaren's own immutable protocols - require them to end all contact with Earth immediately. (Is that info in contact 251? I think it's been translated in few places by now.) So, logically, were an ET provenance for these gigantic and complex symbols generally accepted by Earthlings, then, the Plejaren Federation would leave, thus damaging the safety (indeed, existence) of the mission. And also because they mustn't interfere, and I think it's logical that telling us that the symbols in the fields really are from space aliens could be a form of that interference. You continue, (I'm quoting you quoting me now) "and then 'I don't know for sure that the crop circles are ET, per se, since they might be from interdimentionals or time travellers, etc. But they are NOT (all) from regular (or Dark Order) Earthlings.' is a bit confusing, as well as a bit self-contradictory." This one is easier. It's in the same way that various know-it-all skeptibunkers have split hairs with you and claimed that even if these so-called Plejaren zoom around in flying saucers which people can see and photograph, provide metal and sound samples for analysis and so on and so forth, THAT - in and of itself - does not PROVE that they are EXTRATERRESTRIALS, since they might be interdimentionals or time travellers, etc. I was simply trying to avoid falling into that one with you. Do you remember what Marcel Vogel said to the Japanese television interviewer who asked him - after Vogel explained what he'd found in the Plejaren metal samples he'd looked at - "So, then, are they ... extratestorials?" Vogal smiled and said, "Well, they're not from around HERE!" Maybe the gigantic field forms aren't from ETs? But whoever or whatever is doing the "real" ones - well, they're not from around HERE! As to the other main part of your question, which was edited out by you on the last go-around of it, about Billy hypothetically acknowledging of the reality of the contemptible "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion": if this sickening document was actually real, and not merely an "unbelievably idiotic hoax" as Billy dogmatically asserts, then it should be blindingly obvious to anyone who actually read the disgusting thing, and had even the most delicate grasp of history, that Billy and his mission would be in very, very hot water. Not to suggest that 21 assassination attempts isn't already "hot water"! In spite of the fact that the corporate press suppresses news about Billy to the goyem, the Order of Darkness knows what he's up to and what a powerful influence he has behind the scenes where the myrmidons pull the strings. As he says, he can't do it. Only we can. But back to those pesky field forms.  You continue, "I think it would be more accurate to say that you have drawn that conclusion, one of a number of possibilities." No argument there, mate. Isn't that how we are supposed to know the truth? I don't just believe in them or not believe in them because someone (anyone!) says something. That gigantic "Crabwood code" self portrait(?) from 2002, sure looks like one of those little grey men.  You continue, "And you seem to be unaware that some rather high tech people have indeed come forward admitting to having done a good number of the circles, designing them in advance using computers, etc. I will have to look for the link but this info has been reported." Whoa, Michael. Bad move. You forget who I am. I'm an incorrigibly technologically qualified egg-head. I was trained as a U.S. Air Force, Air Traffic Control, Radar Technician when I was a callow youth. I was a non-commissioned officer responsible for a multi-million dollar radar facility before I was old enough to vote. Later, In Melbourne, I worked (serially) as an electronics technician, the production supervisor of that firm, which manufactured high-precision DC inverters for scientific laboratories, a metal/weapons-detector technician, and then as the General Manager of the Design and Equipment Division of a large multi-national corporation associated with food-processing. And I've kept up with my reading, too. My only formally qualified area of expertise IS electrodynamics. I didn't go into any technical details with you for the simple reason that I NEVER do - clearly - and by your own repeated admission - you are scientifically illiterate. I am abundantly aware of the deplorable fact "that some rather high tech people have indeed come forward admitting to having done a good number of the circles, designing them in advance using computers, etc." and (you'll have to trust me on this one, my friend) their phoney-baloney technobabble sophistry is simply side-splitting. Honestly. It could bring tears of laughter to people in the know like me, with its sheer breathtaking audacity. Or it would if it didn't suck so many technologically illiterate types like yourself in sideways. No offence, brother, but stick to the comedy, and leave the technological aspects of the creation of crop circles to the professionals like Professor Eltjo Haselhoff, who has a Ph.D. in Theoretical and Experimental Physics.  And the ET (or TT, or ID) field form artists use their advanced technology as a calling card for those with eyes to see, but their message (not their medium) is symbols, and that is the most important component. Like the important component of a papal visit is not the popemobile. And in Billy's case, it's not the beamships. I care a lot less about the multiple and varied technologies revealed in the making of the glyphs than I do with what is being communicated (which 100% augments and dovetails with the Plejaren material) and the obvious fact that these messages are being created at all. I know you don't really care much about the one, other, less evolved (compared to the Plejaren) ET-to-Earth contact initiative, but that's not my problem. That's your problem, and I'm starting to waste my valuable time with you about it, when you would be better served by me with fewer words (leaves) and more translations (fruits). I know you won't read books, but did you even look at any of the material I tried to show you in response to your demands that I substantiate my common sense assertion that Billy was "lying" when he told you that crop circles are all hoaxes? You might have read this, "... there are an abundance of curious characteristics that have been discovered in crop circles time after time, which have yet to be reproduced by men. Scientific research has shown germination anomalies, cellular anomalies, intricate and well-structured lengthening of the nodes (the "knuckles" in the stems of corn-rape plants), exploded nodes, burn marks, and even unnatural radioactivity, all of which cannot be the result of simple mechanical flattening. A crop circle is more than just a piece of flattened vegetation: It is accompanied by a considerable amount of unusual observations, far too many to simply dismiss the phenomenon as "caused by man," without further thinking." http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/DCoCC_Excerpts.htm http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rBgiEpB0RkcC&dq=SiO2+spheres+crop+circles&source=gbs_navlinks_s http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/ptaacropcs.htm   Photomicrograph (100 X) of 10-40 micron diameter, spherical, magnetic particles of the type regularly found in crop circle soils. Energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy (an analytical technique used for the elemental analysis or chemical characterization of a sample) reveals these spheres to be pure iron; the fact that they are magnetized reveals they were formed in a magnetic field. http://www.bltresearch.com/magnetic.php  Michael, please be reasonable. At least please look at these photographs if you won't look at the texts, and please just try to gracefully accept that your belief that Billy and Ptaah are telling the truth about boards and ropes and other primitive means being responsible for crop circles is just that - your (ignorant and erroneous) belief. As it says in OM, 32:2419. "Die Unwissenheit ist ein freiwilliges Unglück" ("Ignorance is a voluntary misfortune.") Of course, since you published that stuff about crop circles back in the 90s, if your belief system has changed in light of Billy's most recent stance, that's fine. You are entitled to believe anything you want to believe, "even the contradictory bits" to quote Ned Flanders. ;-) You wrote, "You didn't mention that Meier has stated that the Creation itself sends impulses that certain people, who are sensitive enough to receive the impression, then contribute their own creativity to and produce the circles. He told me this in person, he's told Mariann the same thing and I think he may have said something about it in a Q&A." I have two questions for you about that statement. How exactly does that explain the abovementioned scientifically proven elemental and chemical anomalies (quite aside from the fourth and fifth hypotheses of Euclidian geometry which had never previously been described on the planet Earth, even by Euclid, who only came up with the first three!) and how is your above statement different from merely blindly espousing common religious dogma? PLEASE read this! --> http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/Meier.puzzlesolution.htm And I took a look at the URL you mentioned, being http://www.richplanet.net/cropcircles.php These men are to be saying that there are "genuine" (ET) CCs, and fake ones made by high-tech black ops/secret services, to discredit the ET angle. No problems with that. Didn't I direct you to that site in the first place? But neither of those explanations includes what Billy and Ptaah adamantly assert, and you blindly swallow, namely, boards, ropes, other primitive means. So Billy, Quetzal, Ptaah are, what, mistaken? Or what? Let us draw a veil across this increasingly embarrassing debate about the boards and ropes crop circles, and now turn our attention to our increasingly embarrassing debate about the language problem, which I'll try really hard, just one more time, to illustrate in such a way that it can be adequately understood. So we can eliminate them from the argument, let me start by listing two things which are obviously absolutely irrelevant to the understanding of Billy's untranslated texts: 1.) any and all reasons and justifications, however credible and valid, as to why the German language cannot be read and 2.) the number of people in the world who also cannot read German. You write, "I'm in the mix with more than a few billion other humans who don't know German, or don't know it well enough to really comprehend the Meier information in its source language. It's also a bit "Germanic" to throttle people over the head with "learn German!" all the time." Now I hope we can both agree that about 95% of the material from Billy remains to be translated. It's pretty safe to assume that a sizable percentage of the approximately 5% was done by me, for people like you, out of an acknowledgement of my responsibility to the truth, when I could have much more easily been getting on with other things which would have benefited me more personally, like re-reading the texts again and trying to spend more time applying the teachings therein to my own personal life. So please give me a break, Michael. I'm not trying to "throttle people over the head" (sic). I'm trying to help you. (And "It's also a bit "Germanic" to throttle people over the head with "learn German!" all the time." " ... a bit Germanic"?? Do I detect a whiff of the stink of ... racism? Please explain yourself, Michael.) You write, "And you're quite generous in thumping people over the head for not learning German and being able to discuss it at that level. Don't also people question and disagree in...German? Or is it really that simple, that if the "rest of us" were fluent in German we'd see things as they obviously are to you. Hey, cut us a little slack here, it's actually (in my mind) still a simpler proposition. You see things, and vigorously proclaim, things that some of us don't. At least we're not throwing you in jail for it." How simple can this be? Billy's texts are 95% in the German language. You can't read them. Someone like me has to translate them for you. I just can't get around that fact and that's all the slack that can possibly be cut for you, even though I'd really love to provide more for you. Really. And of course people disagree in languages other than English and that includes German, but they certainly have a much better idea of what they are disagreeing about. And when we're dealing with powerful and entrenched corruption concerning institutional paedophilia, all kinds of unlikely people do get thrown in jail, if not killed. Are you historically illiterate as well as scientifically illiterate? (More on this later, in reply to your accusations of paranoia.) Here's my very simplified hypothetical illustration of the language problem you face. Let's say that we are all attending a one hour long lecture, after which we will be tested on its subject matter. Let's say that 95% (57 minutes) of the duration of that lecture is in German (or Hindi, or whatever incomprehensible foreign language you like), and the remaining three minutes is in English. You take the test and get about - say - a clueless 1% out of a possible hundred, if you're lucky, failing utterly, of course. Then you say, "That's just so unfair! Only 3 minutes of that hour-long lecture was in a language I understand!" And I say, "Well, mate, that's just the way it is and we can't change that situation any time soon, so I guess the only reasonable solution is to try to learn German if you want to pass the test." And you say, "Why do you insist that I learn German?" And then you offer numerous variations on the two abovementioned irrelevancies. Get the picture? Moving right along. Your questions: "The questions are: (1.) is he a liar and (2.) do you "know" something to be true that he's plainly stated isn't?" My answers: (1.) Yes (with imperative qualifications) and (2.) yes. The word "know" need not be placed within inverted commas/quotation marks. I do KNOW these things and so can anyone who uses common sense. But please stop putting these English words in my mouth. Billy is not a liar in the common English sense of the word, as I've tried to explain until I'm blue in the face. Is the man who saved his innocent neighbour's life from the axe-murderer a liar too? Does that make him bad? Please try to be reasonable, Michael. OM, Kanon 20:38 "Denn es ist dem Menschen entschwunden die Gesinnung der Bemühung, dass die Wahrheit soll erarbeitet werden durch eigene Kraft des Denkens und Forschens und Erkennens. 39. Also hat er sich gewandelt in der Form zum Irren, dass er nur noch das annehmen will als Wahrheit, das er mit seinen Händen berühren kann, und das er mit seinen Augen sehen kann, und das er mit seinen Ohren hören kann. 40. Es ist dies aber der Weg der Falschheit und des reinen Materiellen, der jeder Bemühung des Selbstdenkens, des Selbstfühlens, des Selbstforschens, des Selbstsuchens und der Selbsterkennung jeglicher Lösung und Wahrheit Hohn spricht und spottet. 41. Also ist nicht gegeben dadurch der Weg zur Erforschung der Wahrheit und der Findung der Wahrheit, weshalb durch den JHWH und durch den Propheten keine Zeichen oder nur sehr sparsam Zeichen gegeben sein sollen, die da von der Wahrheit zeugend sind. 42. Gegeben ist das Wort der Wahrheit, und dieses ist genügsam vollauf, um die Lehren der Wahrheit zu offenbaren für jene, die da sind willig, die Mühsal der Erlernung durch eigene Kraft anzugehen und zu tragen."" (The Earth human’s sense of effort towards seeking the truth has disappeared. He has lost the inclination to seek the truth through his inherent power of thinking, searching and recognizing. Therefore he has turned to the erroneous form of thinking, that he will only accept as true that which he can touch with his hands and that which he can see with his eyes and that which he can hear with his ears. But this is the false, purely material way, which mocks and scorns any effort of self-thinking, self-feeling, self-searching, self-seeking and self-recognition for every solution and truth. Therefore through this, the way to the searching for the truth, and the finding of the truth, is not provided. And so, through the JHWH and the Prophet, no signs, or only sparse signs, should be given, that testify to the truth. The word of truth is given, and this is wholly sufficient to reveal the teaching of the truth for any who are willing to make and to bear the effort of learning through their own power.) http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/omintro.htm Billy teaches us that repetition is the mother of learning, so, one more time - with feeling: Using the word "lie" in the conventional English-language sense to mean; "a deliberate untruth calculated to deceive", yes, Billy and the Plejaren do lie (ethically). (Professor Deardorff independently reached that blindingly obvious conclusion too.) But, of course, by their own idiosyncratic (by terrestrial standards) definitions, they certainly NEVER lie. On Earth, liars are the deepest type of lowlife. But from Erra and from The Prophet, the "lies" are for our own good and an absolute requirement for the viability of the vital mission. In short: Earth liars are bad. Plejaren "liars" are good, and we Earth folks ignorantly use the word "lie" wrong anyway. We all learnt from the Bafath. We now all have a lot to re-learn. Common sense demands that it is not always alright to "lie" if you're a Plejaren, but never right to "lie" if you're an Earthling. The decisive factor is the ethics and logic in any given situation. OM53:370 Es gibt keine höhre Tugend als die Wahrheit und keine schlimmere Schuld als die Lüge. (There is no higher virtue than the truth and no worse fault than a lie.) I went on to say, "And I certainly cannot prove it, or anything else TO you.", providing, once again, the URL to my translation of Billy's article, http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/meier.sdw142.derfalscheweg.htm which states (among other important things): "Wie dumm und dämlich sind doch solche Reden der Beweisführung, denn in jedem Fall vermögen nur innere Wahrnehmungen, Werte, Erkenntnisse, Kenntnisse, Erfahrungen und Erlebnisse sowie das innere Wissen und die Weisheit echte Beweise zu erbringen." (How stupid and dimwitted is such talk of demonstration of proof, because in every case, only inner perceptions, values, cognitions, understandings, experience and experiences, as well as inner knowledge and wisdom can provide genuine proof.) And in reply to all that, you responded, "You told us you knew and so i've simply said...prove it." Now if you were a forum newbie, I'd be much more lenient, but - since you promote the Meier case, and I've recently and repeatedly made this text of his available to you in English - your evident hypocrisy or wilful ignorance is a concern of mine. I don't mean to be nasty here, Michael, and there is certainly nothing personal, but I just do not know how to put it any more tactfully. The truth is sometimes harsh. You are going to have to help me with this one, Michael. What are you trying to say? "So it seems that you're saying that his duty to try to "protect" humanity from such knowledge trumps his self-proclaimed duty to tell the truth, which actually removes the opportunity for people to take responsibility to discover the truth for themselves, i.e. to take Meier's clear, unambiguous statements and think them through for themselves." Yes to "his duty to try to "protect" humanity from such knowledge trumps his self-proclaimed duty to tell the truth", but I don't see how what Billy says or doesn't say in any way "removes the opportunity for people to take responsibility to discover the truth for themselves". Indeed, I think quite the opposite is the case. As Billy himself explains: " ... denn würde ihnen alles Wissen einfach wie Futter hingeschmissen und von ihnen gedankenlos und ohne Verarbeitung gefuttert, dann würde es keinen eigentlichen Erfolg bringen, sondern nur ein gewisses Schulwissen, während der Rest unverdaut als Exkremente wieder ausgeschieden würde." ( ... if all knowledge was simply tossed out to them like feed and they fed on it thoughtlessly and without processing, then it would bring no proper success, but rather only a certain school-knowledge, while the undigested remainder would be secreted again as excrement.) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meierv5p468.htm You write, (in reply to me remarking that you are inadequately informed of the vital context of the case (most specifically to do with MILABS, MiB, cattle mutilations, etc.) and even when we airmailed you an important book, you never looked at it), "I receive so much email, unsolicited books, DVDs, letters, etc. that I cannot possibly even look at them all. And, since I still have to support myself in the middle of a major metropolis, and cover all associated costs, I focus my attention on the Meier material and the world events that I constantly scan for relevance." Now Michael, naturally, because I understand that you "receive so much email, unsolicited books, DVDs, letters, etc." I would never ever expect you to "even look at them all", but you do seem to respect my views on scientific matters enough to ask me to spend my time translating them into laymen's terms for you, so I think it's fair to use this example to try to illustrate that I do go to extraordinary lengths to try to help you - and, by extension, the English language arm of the mission - to adequately understand what you need to understand to properly do the difficult and critically important job you have chosen to do. And that includes not simply dogmatically believing everything Billy says as gospel. Or does this stance of yours have anything to do with the loyalty oath all would-be FIGU members are required to sign as a condition of membership? This is not a rhetorical question. I misunderstood about the email you sent me on March 9th. I though it was from you. Here's what I got: "Michael Horn Mar 9 (10 days ago) If you want off the list.. JUST ASK. I will remove your email promptly. (Please include the email address this goes too.) This list goes to 2500 broadcast media people, newspaper editors, directors, producers, actors and other "above the line" personal. Some regular people, a few members of congress, some 911 and government truth and UFO researchers and activists." When I wondered aloud about your (non)acceptance of the other conspiracies (easier) like crop circles, etc., you replied, "No doubt in my mind about the pedophilia problem [note: described in what you sent to me as the highest echelons of the world's societies routinely and systematically snatching children from the streets, ritually torturing them to death and eating them] but not sure what you're saying about the other conspiratorial stuff." So I naturally assumed that the material which I (rather stupidly, in hindsight) thought you were telling me you had complied and sent to "2500 broadcast media people, newspaper editors, directors, producers, actors and other 'above the line' personal" was something you accepted as true. For the record, I do know that it actually is true. http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/childabuseearth.htm This JUST came into my in box: http://www.wanttoknow.info/060501conspiracyofsilence Now, on a not entirely unrelated topic, back to your criticisms of my contention that, along with crop circles, Billy is concealing what he knows about the vile document known around the world simply as "the Protocols", but, at the same time, he is cunningly inviting our scrutiny of them by his "unbelievably idiotic" and "tiresomely repetitive" references to them. (I put those two expressions in quotes because that is what he says about the Protocols, and anyone who looks at them knows that that is every bit as silly as asserting that the crop circles are made with boards and ropes, but you wouldn't know that because you wouldn't look at them.) You write, "MH: ...or what a clever, better, safe simple, and economical way to deal with something deserving of no more!!!!!!!! Yikes, do you have ANY idea of how rigidly you enforce your own assumptions, inferences, interpretations and beliefs?" On one hand, you demand proof, support, substantiation, and so forth, from me - while misjudging how deserving something is, which you say you've never read - and then you get all excited and exclaim, "Yikes, do you have ANY idea of how rigidly you enforce your own assumptions, inferences, interpretations and beliefs?" Have I misunderstood? Isn't that exactly what you are demanding of me? You continue, "Apart from being quite intellectually adept...do you possess some reasonable level of honest introspection, of objective evaluation of what may, just may MAY be symptomatic of something quite opposite to what you seem to ASSUME it is?" In my understanding, people cannot possibly BE intellectually adept, let alone "quite intellectually adept" unless they first "possess some reasonable level of honest introspection, of objective evaluation of what may, just may MAY be symptomatic of something quite opposite to what" those people "seem to ASSUME it is." So yes, naturally, my very first step in trying to get to the truth is to play the devil's advocate with myself, and I do it ruthlessly. It's called, "the scientific method". And an "objective evaluation" requires an adequate relevant background, framework and context in order to exist. (Otherwise it's not objective, it's subjective.) And that means familiarising oneself with the material before even starting to draw tentative conclusions about it. That's just common sense. Anyway, you continue, "MH: I suggest not overlooking the possibility that you have also succumbed to it [brainwashing] in some ways, being apparently somewhat predisposed towards. As a personal example, when we met at the Nexus conference in Australia a few years ago, I was at that time struck by your overt suspicions expressed towards a number of people attending, simply based on some very fleeting interactions, or even non-interactions with them. To put it another way, I was surprised at how few people went unnoticed or unremarked about in a suspicious way by you. My own thoughts at the time were that you exhibited symptoms of paranoia. Of course, there's that wonderful old saying, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone's not out to get you." And also of course, some things can produce self-fulfilling prophecies." I have to clean up my thinking AND I've been brainwashed? Mixed metaphors or ... ?? Sure. The thing about delusions of persecution is, all anybody needs is a great lot of persecution to get the ball rolling. But, as you may be able to imagine, the lengths gone to to label me delusional, and thereby discredit the evidence we presented of heinous institutionalised criminality at the highest possible levels of government, were nothing short of Herculean on the part of the prison psychiatrists. I requested (jumping before the inevitable push) to be referred to them (to implicate as many as humanly possible in this scandal, I explained) when the standard prison entry psychologist (who gleefully introduced herself by saying, "I'VE GOOOOGLED YOU!"), decided that my descriptions of Ptaah who - in reply to her direct question of me - I related had advised us to take down our whistleblowers' website, made me sound delusional. (Duh!) There was no way that I could lie and expect the elemental power of truth to protect me - and of course also Vivienne who I was told would be diagnosed with Folie à deux (shared insanity) if she backed my story. We would both become (USSR-style) the subjects of "coercive therapy". This was graphically described by Melbourne's cold maximum security prison psychiatrists as being forcibly restrained and injected with powerful anti-psychotic drugs. To describe my interview ordeals would take this forum contribution "too far afield" as Billy and Ptaah like to say, but suffice it to say that after several long, arduous and repeated grillings by various heavy-duty shrinks, my file ended up stating, "Mr. Devine is not delusional", and I was returned, from my interviews, to my tiny cell, deep within in the general prison community. The head psychiatrist suddenly quit after confessing to me that he'd been sending everybody away, from that prison for the last 30 years, who made similar but very much less poutlandish claims about the institutionalised child sex abuse they'd been victims of, the secret world government ("Dark Order"), Freemason/ Zionist/CIA conspiracies and of course anything at all to do with UFOs. He said many MANY very VERY nice things to and about me, and wished Vivienne and me all the very best. His replacement, who he introduced, asked me excitedly, which planet my "friends" were from. She was dressed a little like Annie Oakley, minus the guns and hat. When I started to say that they originally claimed to be from the Pleiades, she loudly interrupted, "OH! GOODY! THAT'S MY VERY FAVOURITE CONSTELLATION!!!!!" So when you question my sanity, Michael, let me assure you that it has recently been very forcefully questioned by a lot of people with a lot of power who had a lot to lose by not simply turning Vivienne and me into harmless zombies, but the elemental power of truth saved us, and I will not abandon it now. More pertinently to your suspicions about my behaviour at your Brisbane Nexus conference - this is obviously another situation where you have either lost sight of the required context or choose not to believe it. As very high-profile whistleblowers, we were - in those days - having everything possible thrown at us to stop our work. That includes serial file burglaries, serial arson attacks, innumerable death threats, continual pistol, etc. shots, low aircraft flyovers of all types, including of course a black unmarked helicopter, (not to mention a few UFOs). We reckon the only reason that I didn't wind up with a bullet in the back of my head (more than one of the local bigwigs was reliably identified as a serial assassin) was because my neighbour up the road got a bullet in the back of his head first, in what looks like a bizarre case of mistaken identity. We were both ex Viet Nam era vets, independently known as "that Yank on the Tucabia-Tyndale Road. They blew it. After Steve's murder, mine would have been TOO sus. When you're a whistleblower, you get into contact with SO many people that the local criminality gets independently described from many separate angles and an accurate picture forms that way in the same way that the 450 Disclosure Project witnesses' testimonies flesh each other out. The network of contacts grows exponentially. But back to Nexusland. It was a long trip up from New South Wales, in very high heat, in a rattley 1974 kombi van. We told you beforehand that we wanted to meet you, but on the condition that we did not have to participate in the Nexus-related glad-handing. You agreed. As soon as we arrived, you introduced us to two people who you said you thought could help us with our Disclosure Project work. The first guy had an "alternative, New Age-type" FM radio programme. The next guy was some big dude with a huge pot belly (remember him?) who was supposedly in some way (formerly?) associated with military intelligence, black ops, or somesuch. Less than a minute after you introduced us, you wandered off and he was already loudly telling Vivienne and me - people were staring - that we WOULD (not could) not only BE killed, but we would be killed by being tortured to death by means of high-tech, above top secret, back engineered UFO technology which would be connected directly to our bodies' pain receptors in such a way that what we would both experience was a new sort of drawn out, lingering hyper-agony which would still keep us alive FAR longer than all previously known types of lo-tech torture, etc. etc. etc. While this was going on and you were circulating smoothly among the Nexus readers, the first guy we met reappeared and sidled up to Vivienne and plucked her sleeve with great fear, saying, "I must speak to you about something!" And then preceded to whisper to her that he is psychic and just got a very strong image that we were both in grave danger. (Of course, several years later, after we started working with Dr. Reina Michaelson, we even read on the Internet how much fun it would be to kidnap us and torture us to death.) There is more to this story, (real ET stuff) but I'll leave that for more enlightened times. Suffice it to say that we arrived home again in the wee hours after a long and uneventful trip. So, Michael, an untrained eye can easily confuse delusions of persecution with the real thing. At least we never copped 21 assassination attempts. Pressing on ... I wrote, "DD: Here's "cryptic" for you. When the modern (1975) component of the mission started, Billy was evidently OK with being (VERY falsely!) characterised as a "simple" (read "stupid") one-armed Swiss farmer (read "stupid and parochial") with a 6th grade education (read "stupid, parochial and ignorant"). Naturally, his biography has expanded in the intervening 35 years. Now this is not lying, but it's pretty cryptic and a long way from being generous with the truth, that Billy is the wisest man who ever lived. http://www.theyfly.com/gaia/nokodemion.htm And you replied, "MH: I think that you have just given a textbook example of interpretation, slant, etc. Just WHY should we read "stupid, parochial and ignorant"? I actually think that being simple in itself doesn't negate any other qualities, depth of feeling, knowledge, etc. For me, it describes someone who conducts himself without artifice, pretense, unnecessary words, strange behaviors and the like. Sure, some people may try to use those words as pejoratives but it doesn't make it so...for everyone." Naturally, but pejoratives is what Billy gets from the vast majority of people who care to comment, and he was never - in the early days - portrayed as much more than anything other than "simple", except when other schools of thought would try to make him out as a wily huckster/hoaxter/cult guru, etc. I got this quote from one of the only early sources of English (dis)info, your old partner Randy Winters ["Winters ist ein Profitgieriger Schurke" (Winters is a profit-hungry scoundrel) Ptaah, 255th contact, May 13th, 1996] who liked to do his Mortimer Snerd-style impersonation of Billy, "It’s a little bit kinda like meeting Santa Claus. I think Wendelle and Michael would agree with me. If he were here tonight, you’d like the guy right away. He’d just kinda walk up here to the microphone, (swaying back and forth grinning foolishly, putting on a stupid sounding, heavily accented voice, waving his hand slowly) (He’d say,) “Hallo effrybody. Derr.” He’s just – as soon as you’re around him you just know you’re around somebody who’s spent a lifetime pursuing the spiritual side of life and wants everybody to just share and love each other. He’s a really peaceful little guy." http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/randywinters.htm http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/RW.index.htm He doesn't really always come across as a "really peaceful little guy" as "the Phantom" who Quetzal mentioned killed 70 really dangerous killers in strict self-defence. (With steel bullets, One shot in the head and one shot in the heart, like a double flash of thundering lightning from his .44 long barrel revolver.) Nor does he come across as a "really peaceful little guy", if you read the contact notes. His recently discussed use of the expression "dog's c..t" is a memorable example of his application of harsh truth where called for, as well as his admission that bellowing is sometimes called for, and people who believe otherwise do not understand human psychology. To me, this seems much more characteristic of a real, genuine prophet, as opposed to the behaviour of some unreal, posturing pope. I wrote, "Another facet of the language problem is that Billy and the Plejaren use words in a way that I consider a serious form of "language-abuse", but of course - and this is the pivotal point - they do this ONLY in order to help us and protect us from things that they know are not good for us. I know (not believe) that this is their sole motivation, however offensive and patronising that may seem to my fellow pre-human Earthlings who think that Planet Suicide here is the centre of the universe and we Earth "humans" represent the One Great Shining Jewel in the Gleaming Crown of Creation." You wrote, "MH: Perhaps but I am just a wee bit troubled when I read " I know (not believe) that this is their sole motivation". Might it not just be your...interpretation, present conclusion, assumption? Possibly, might it just not be your perspective, instead of the almighty TRUTH?" Naturally, obviously, of course, I'm neither perfect nor omniscient. Far from it! :-) So of course the possibility remains that we are all dead wrong about what we know to be true in our heart of hearts. It's called making mistakes. Maybe your dad was not your biological father at all. Maybe the Sun WON'T come up tomorrow. You like to ask, "Who would you rather pilot the airplane you're a passenger on? Someone who BELIEVES he can fly and airplane, or someone who KNOWS he can fly an airplane?" People who can fly airplanes for decades and KNOW that they can fly airplanes still sometimes fly into the sides of mountains, for all sorts of reasons, and I keep my mind constantly open to corrections of my knowledge, for which I have logically deduced evidence, as opposed to beliefs, which - by definition - require a lack of evidence in order to BE defined as beliefs. Is this semantics? I used to know things that proved to be wrong. Who hasn't? But I used the above word about the Plejarens' sole motivation because I still hold it to be true, and it's much more than just a belief on my part, it is knowledge based on me familiarising myself with the Meier material in depth and being able to perceive it in the context of my life-long epistemological study of the sciences and human history. Would you have preferred me to say I merely "BELIEVE" or "THINK" that they abuse language for our own good? Do I have to say "believe" or some such because I can't find sufficient evidence to make that any stronger? Seems like semantic nit picking to me. I wrote, "Certainly, as one of his strongest public defenders and supporters, me branding him an (ethical) liar would hurt the mission and impact on T-shirt sales, but that is, and always has been, my assertion and I stick to it." You wrote, "MH: Would you actually let a commercial consideration, i.e. T-shirt sales, stand in the way of revealing the truth? After all, we could make a T-shirt that says: Billy Meier is an ethical liar! (you could have your name, or "According to Dyson Devine", etc. there too...in the font of your choice)." OOPS! :-( Failed attempt at sardonic humour! Sorry! My fault. No, Michael, I would not let commercial considerations stand in the way of revealing the truth, and the truths I refer to here - "DD: Let me just make the point abundantly clear that the truths I choose to reveal from Billy's texts, etc., can indeed damage the mission in the short term in the eyes of those who want a lot of oil and balsam, but these harsh and iconoclastic truths will ultimately be what's required to actually advance the quiet revolution in the long term, where it really counts." - are not merely my truths, but BILLY'S (and the Plejaren Federation's) truths, being represented by my translations of Billy's texts. Billy does actually draw the distinction between truth and true truth. The former being: that the pilot knows how to fly the plane, and the latter being: the absolute, immutable, all-great-time, Creational truth. It will always remain our great collective challenge, in knowledge and love/wisdom, to make that distinction. "MH: Just wondering, did you possibly, by some stretch of the imagination mean - but forgot - to say, "The truths AS I UNDERSTAND THEM from..."?" (Now is this sardonic? Or sarcastic?) No, I didn't forget, because I was referring to translations of Billy's texts, not my own understandings of them, as I thought I stated rather unambiguously, . Let me just close with a bit from the wonderful Book of Truth, the Omfalon Murado, again: OM 53:489-503 Die Wahrheit ist stets die Richtschnur in allen Dingen. Harte Worte sind stets die Richtschnur der Wahrheit. Wahrheit und Gerechtigkeit klingen hart und unbeugsam. Wahrheit ist so hart wie Felsgestein. Selbst Schwache werden von der Lüge nicht bezwungen, wenn sie um die Wahrheit wissen. (The truth is always the guideline in all things. Hard words are always the guideline to the truth. Truth and justice sound hard and inflexible. Truth is as hard as rock. Even the weak will not be defeated by the lie if they know the truth.) I hope that will do it. I'd really like to get back to my other work, translating. Cheers! Dyson | ||
Newtown Member Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2009 |
people see what they want to see (and or) are able to... http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/The_Wrong_Way if billy is trying to protect us ..why are we having this conversation here? why even bring it up at all? (Micheal) and why point out the possible concealment? (dyson) Hodari | ||
Elba Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2010 |
Hi Dyson, Michael H, and Members of the forum: I apreaciate Dyson for the efforts in translations that help us a lot in our learning .. ( myself I just learned english/writing) , since there is not a lot of information in espanish .. Michael H. I watched all information in you tube about Billy ..and in your web .. helped me a great deal (thank you ).. after I have read all available english translations in the web. .I respect you both and your trues.. But I don't see a balanced neutral-positive thinking.. ( but radical ) expresion .I'd like to see that(NPT) more in your writings(if possible) so I can digest your words better .. My apologies por that request .. I'm just a begginer.. Dyson you remember when I asked about Sixto Paz the Peruvian who claim have contacts whith ETs from Orion.. and blabla blaba.??.. You responded to me .. that he was a Hoax ...and he doesn't have even the half true in his claims .. ( something like that ) you also show me a link or bulletin where Billy refers to him ..(thank you!).. This Sixto Paz .. claims that the ETs made the Crops Circle , he even have explanation /interpretation for some of them ... I don't have the link but is in you tube , but since is a Hoax?? For myself I'm going stick with Billy's version of events. My logic Y SEARCHING tells me that he is WAAAYYY MORE evolved/advanced in CREATIONAL MANY WAYS than I , so I trust him .. Salome Elba | ||
Norm Member Post Number: 1345 Registered: 02-2000 |
I have a proposal Dyson. Why not carefully ask Billy directly the questions you have about the POZ & CC in the next round of Questions to Billy When it opens up. His answer should settle it once & for all. What do you think? My Website |
