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Archive for 2008

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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 764
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Ashwin,

Thank you for that, and thank you VERY much for your work with James Moore.

The problem with working from archives like the Wayback Machine, is they freeze all the hence corrected typographical errors like a fly in amber, as is the case with the missing “2” on the contact about the Apollo 11 hoax. The 666 page was Der Beobachter’s work. We merely hosted it for him because Catholic Brazil is not ready yet.

There are bound to be errors cropping up here and there well into the future as this material slowly gains wider exposure. Corrections are warmly welcomed.

There are various (other then www.futureofmankind.co.uk) efforts being made now to recover these many “lost” gaiaguys/meier files, so it’s sad to see that old (and in this case) uncorrected archives are being used when all that has to be done is to email us a postal address to gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net (subject “lost Meier files”) and I’ll do my best to send any serious researcher - who is prepared to mirror these files on line - a complete and up to date set on a CD. Please understand that our plans are a bit up in the air here just now, so for a very limited time only, we can do this for people prepared to publish this material, but not for every Tom Dick and Mary who just wants a free CD. If you have this info, please share it as widlly as you can since our site is kaputt.

And while I’m here on the translations thread, I do NOT want anybody to think that I’m “back on the forum”, but I cannot maintain my silence when I read Matthew “Deagle”, previously known here as the notoriously disruptive “Matthew a_jyb”, poisoning the truth with his WRONG translations and WRONG information about Billy’s precious teachings. He is why I left the forum the first time (to return when he was eventually kicked off) and he is one of the main reasons why I will not return now.

In spite of the fact that I told him in no uncertain terms that I would no longer accept his revealing, time-consuming emails, he persisted. Ask him about his occult connections and ask the forum moderators where in the Talmud Jmmanuel is says, “Turn the other cheek.”

I will neither debate nor respond to replies to this one-off posting.

Salome,
Dyson
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Vibka
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Matthew,
May I correct your tranlation of sentence 7 that you quoted above "um Schoepfung zu werden in Kraft und Sein." ?
The translation should read "in order to become Creation in Power and Being". The German word "Kraft" means "power", not craft, and the word "um" in this context means "in order to".
Regards, Wiebke
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dyson,

Okay, I didn't need to defend myself, but I'll at least show you the decency of replying to your comments with explanations which I hope suffice for you, although I am rather wary of precisely what your 'standards' are.

With regard to my so-called "WRONG" translations, perhaps you refer to my use above of the noun "Craft" to mean "Kraft" instead of "Power", "Effect" or "Potential" or something like that, as well as the verb "shape" instead of "create" or "produce" or something along those lines, for the verb "erschaffen". The word "Sektiererei" means "sectarianism" in most contexts I've read it. I used the plural here, despite its awkwardness, to indicate that there are various forms of this, and this is also implied by the form of that noun. The word "venom" simply sounds nastier than "poison" in this case, and the word "imbecile" is much closer to the meaning I've heard Germans use "Schwachsinnige" in. It's a much stronger insult than "weak-sensed", for certain, Mr. pedantic.

Obviously, I did this for the sound of the words, and also in part for their semantic superiority in this case. The connections of the word "Craft" to the ideas of potential, especially creative potential, as well as power, artform, skill, etc., seems to me more befitting than a less aesthetic word like "Power" in this case. The word "shape" simply works better because of its smaller number of syllables and its superior aesthetic in terms of sound and cadence with the rest of the translation. This also avoids over-repitition of the sound "crea", since our English word for "Schoepfung" is "Creation". I didn't think that such a detailed explanation was necessary, but there you go.

As far as my interpretations of Billy's teachings go, obviously how "WRONG" these are is totally up to the individual to decide. As I have stated numerous times, I'm just guiding people toward authors in and ideas in the English language which tie in with Billy's teachings, and help us in our quest to think about his statements for ourselves and connect them with the ideas of others, our own feelings and experiences, etc. Hopefully this is the goal for everyone involved with FIGU, although I know it isn't, since I have seen numerous persons who sadly have made Billy's information into a cult doctrine for themselves, what is completely in opposition to Billy's repeated advice.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Cancerdoc
New member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Forum,

I have a more fundamental question for you should you be able to forgive me for providing a brief interruption in your thread. Why is the German language the "very best language to learn in order to understand things the way they really should be." I would very much appreciate a thoughful response should there be one out there.

Regards,
AG
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Cancerdoc,

The whole topic would require simply too much space to adequately discuss, but I'll try to summarise some of the key points, at least with comparison to English. Collectively, the comparisons also apply to other languages, when one regards all of the points in which German is superior.

- German is more syntactically flexible than English. It's structure is synthetic, such that one may easily produce new nouns from simpler nouns; and one is also able to transform verbs and adjectives into nouns, adjectives into verbs, as well as vice versa. One is thus easily able to transfer concepts from the action-describing form to the quality-describing form, etc.

- German words tend to have roots in concrete concepts, and therefore trace a clearer 'semantic lineage' back to simpler ideas, which makes their meanings more coherent and universally-agreeable.

- There are many terms and concepts, developed during the development of New High-German (Neuhochdeutsch) by philosophers and authors, etc., which simply do not exist in any other language as they do in German, such as Vernunft and Verstand, etc.

- However, the main issue is not simply existing words, but the ability for new words to be coherently created from German in the future, so that German is well-equipped to meet the semantically-complex demands of our future civilisations. Many words which do not yet have well-defined meanings are used by Billy, so that they may be developed in the future into very clear and deep concepts, such as most of the words he uses in his "Symbole der Geisteslehre" selection.

- There are a number of other advantages, such as the fact that German has more detailed spatial descriptions than English and most other languages , etc., etc.

Happy studying,

- Matthew


---

Dear Dyson,

Just to be a super-pedant, I decided to actually confirm my own suppositions by schlaging the word "Kraft" in meinem Wahrig-Woerterdictionary nach (Denglish for humour), and found that their definition actually suits the word "Craft" in English moreso than just about any other word:

"1. Staerke, Fahigkeit, etwas (Schweres) zu tun, zu bewirken (Geistes~, Koerper~, Muskel~, Tat~, Willens~) ... 3. Heftigkeit, Gewalt (bes. von Naturgewalten) 4. Wirksamkeit ...usw. "

then the etymology states this:

"[<ahd.>kraft</i> engl. craft ...usw.>]"

- Wahrig Deutsches Woerterbuch, Bertelsmann, 2006, S. 886.

comment deleted

Vernunft und Verstand!,

- Matthew Deagle


Please Matthew stop the personal attacks and this goes for everyone else not only you. As you gathered posts that are of attacking nature have been rejected or deleted if previously approved.
I think you made your point clear without having to resort to personal attacks.
Salome, Badr - Moderator
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 36
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Vibka,

Sorry that I didn't see your comment earlier, although my last explanation probably suffices for it.

Although usually "craft" in modern English is just used to mean "arts and crafts", etc., the word actually etymologically means the exact same thing as "Kraft", in German. I used it since there is not another word in English which actually matches exactly what "Kraft" means in its finer meaning. Power could be Macht, Potenz, etc., but "Kraft" specifically has a finer meaning, only matched by "Craft" in English.

Also, I am aware of course that "um" implies "in order to", but this does not need to be literally said in English. For instance, if you asked me why I put a period at the end of my sentence, I could say "I did it to complete the sentence.". This is similar to how a person in English might just say "the one I love" instead of "the one whom I love" "the one, that I love", etc.

Salome,

- Matthew
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 171
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the FIGU forum AG!

Well the answer is simple and that is that all of the material Billy has provided over the years is in German and when translated the material suffers since it is not always translated correctly. It may and probably does have errors. Another reason is because there's very little material available in english or any other language that's not german.
The reason it is all in german is because german is a very complete language and lets not forget that Billy is Swiss.

Salome
Dave
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Gaiawingz
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 02:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure -someone- will clarify this, but I believe it has to do with the fact that German, when it was first being standardized and refined, was influenced strongly by the writer/poet/intellectual/philosopher groups who had assimilated toward the German speaking lands while fleeing religious persecution and other assorted joys elsewhere in Europe.

So, while most languages of the world evolved around a world of trade, commerce, and lust for wealth, being designed to best facilitate those things, the German language (more specifically now certain dialects, which I don't know by name because I'm not even remotely capable of speaking German at this point in time, let alone distinguishing between high/vulgar, etc.) was designed with more thought to the individual meanings and the nuance of words.

Since I know there's someone coming along shortly who will give you an answer more in-depth than I can possibly manage at the moment, as far as I know German is the preferential language of Billy and his contacts because it is not only more exact and varied in its terminology, but also more flexible when creating new terms than the other languages of the planet at this point in time.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 03:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Forum members,

Maybe I should say something else about English vs. German, in order to make a few things clear to both the German- and English-native-speakers of this forum.

I would describe German as a 'symbolic' language in Goethe's sense of the word, in that its words tend to describe themselves and make clear through relationships what they mean; while English I would call an "eidolic" language, derived from the noun "eidolon", meaning:

An eidolon is, in this context, a symbolic illusion, which conceals symbols behind superficial simulacra and/or conceptual obfuscation, thereby making the symbols unrecognisable when one only considers the superficial part.

All languages contain some mixture of these two qualities, but whether symbols or eidolons prevail in the total sum of vocabulary determines whether th language can be called "eidolic" or "symbolic". Since most "higher level" English words are derived from foreign or dead languages, and quite often do not immediately avail themselves of clear and penetrating definitions. It is also clear to many speakers of e.g. German who also have learned English, that English implies much more than it says, at times, and this may seem strange, even counter-productive, when some other languages are so straight-forward in comparison.

The concept of eidolons can also be extended to all manner of religious allegory, etc. This relates to, but is not identical to, Goethe's concept of allegories.

I shall perhaps expound upon this more at a later time, but I feel that my response might at this point be too detailed for the moderators' liking.

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Badr,

My post was not intended as a 'personal attack', but on that note, why did you not delete Dyson's comment suggesting that I was an evil occult conspirator?? This puzzles me greatly in light of these remarks by you.

- Matthew
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 282
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Matthew,

I couldn’t find any comment from Dyson making this accusation. The most recent post which he mentioned you was this…

“And while I’m here on the translations thread, I do NOT want anybody to think that I’m “back on the forum”, but I cannot maintain my silence when I read Matthew “Deagle”, previously known here as the notoriously disruptive “Matthew a_jyb”, poisoning the truth with his WRONG translations and WRONG information about Billy’s precious teachings. He is why I left the forum the first time (to return when he was eventually kicked off) and he is one of the main reasons why I will not return now.”

And to me this is not an attack, but stating the truth. I am sure you agree that you were writing a lot of disinformation in the past. So if Dyson did not forgive or forget your wrong doings, then the forum is not a place to argue over this issue.

If you still don’t agree with my opinion then please email me, as this has nothing to do with translations.

PS: I wasn’t commenting on your post being a personal attack, but the sentence that was deleted, as it would have only fueled hate and anger.

Salome, Badr
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Lonnie
Member

Post Number: 261
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Forum Readers,

There is too much hype and over-emphasis here with the German language. Yes, all of the the information first has to be in German for an important reason. But there is already much information available in English.

As far as translations are concerned, unless you were born into the German language you will not be able to translate as well as someone who learned German from birth. There is a big difference.

While it is true that the teachings had to be written in German originally because German is more specific and because of the code, this does not mean that if you don't learn German you will be left out. To the contrary, you could stagnate by not gaining the understanding, regardless of what your language is. English will be the world-wide language of the future. The code (in German) is only an aid to help if you cannot understand. As long as you have the MEANING and in your own language you will learn and make progress. This is my understanding.

Lonnie Morton
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 172
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow I just read my explanation on why german is the prefered language for the teachings and damn is it bad. I should not write posts as early in the morning as I did today...
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Lonnie,

English is the world-wide language of the present, but, as it is only a collection of diverging dialects, it shall certainly not remain the 'lingua franca' of Earth for more than a century or two.

Eventually, it is predicted that High-German will become the world language, due to its development.

High-German actually is superior to English and every other language on Earth in a number of ways, especially when dealing with the spirit-teachings and technical matters, such as the natural-language expounding of the semantics of a theory. English is at the moment highly reliant on dead languages for its derivations, while German is not; this combined with the fact that it is really only a collection of dialects, destined to diverge into eventually mutually unintelligible separate languages.

Some languages really are superior or inferior to others. It so happens that German combines most of the best qualities of languages on Earth, and is therefore the best language for description available to us Earth-folk. I of course support translations being made into the English from German, and plan to make quite a few myself--although the original German is still always much clearer and more descriptive than the English could ever be.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 42
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Lonnie,

Perhaps I should add that English is actually a much more difficult language to learn than German, due its numerous peculiarities, and it is just as much an advantage in making translations to have spoken English since childhood as it is to have spoken German--if not a greater advantage, due to English being much more diffult to adequately learn when one has not 'grown up' with it. Also to consider is the 'eidolic' quality of English, which results in an enormous amount of difficulty in semantic clarity, which probably accounts at least partly for the visibly dwindling vocabularies in the English world (of course, the spread of simplified dialects in the common parlance is also a major factor).

English developed originally as a common dialect, and was simplified much over its lifetime, until it eventually was revived as a literary language, and then replaced Latin as the academic and liturgical language of England. Due, therefore, also in part to its creole-like ancestry and the fact that it evolved into a set of cultivated dialects through literature, English may suffice for literary purposes, but it is not at all sufficient for theoretical scientific and philosophic descriptions, when compared with High-German, which is much more cultivated in this regard.

Funnily enough, Jacob Grimm praised English for its simplicity and other qualities, and English-language literature far outnumbers that of other languages on the Bestsellers lists, etc.--also many of the world's most regarded authors, playwrites and poets have written in English; so it is possible that English could be, collecting its more cultivated dialects, regarded as the foremost literary language on Earth today. However, it does not seem reasonable that all of the world's laws should one day be written in a literary language, nor does it seem likely that a non-standardised 'language' like English can outlive a fortified structure like Hochdeutsch, which is also rife with development in the nounal realm, etc., based upon its own morphemes.

Is English the world-language for the next century? Probably. However, is German likely to slowly grow and overtake English as the world-language?


Salome,

- Matthew
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Cancerdoc
New member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for your responses--you all are very gracious indeed.

One final question: one of the fundamental messages from the Meier material is that the human being alone should be able to arrive at the truth on his or her own, through introspection, and subsequent growth and progression of awareness. Why then, should the nature of the language itself be of such paramount importance rather than an accurate translation into any language? I dont know if I'm being articulate enough to communicate my point, but it seems that once the individual is exposed to the truth, it is up to his own thought process to assimilate that which is true without the condition of understanding the truth is a specific language--whether it be German, Sanskrit, etc? Surely the pleiadians don't speak German at home do they? For that matter, surely other highly evolved spiritual life forms dont speak German? I am just trying to reason this for myself. Let me know if I'm missing something. I understand your points but I'm just having a tough time believing that the language that is used to communicate the truth can influence so drastically the assimilation and progression of the individual.

Sincere regards,
AG
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1386
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cancerdoc,

As I understand it, German had its roots in old the Lyrian language which was spoke here thousands of years ago. The German language as it is used in many of Billy's books, but not all, will trigger impulses from the Storage Banks AKA-Akashic Records within the persons subconscious. This is a type of enchancement which aids the evolution of the person when reading the teachings in German. As has been stated before, you can read the German from beginning to end and not understand it with your material mind, but the German will trigger the impulses. Listening to someone else speak it will also have the same effect. This has been discussed earlier within the archives of this section.

Regards
Scott
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Lonnie
Member

Post Number: 262
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

Where did you read that German will be the international world language of the future? This is certainly not correct. Billy has stated that English will be the world-wide language for the future on Earth. Of course German is better suited for recording the teachings. But in the future German will be like Latin is today.

We only have about 800 years until the mission is completed. And then, after that, a little less than 1200 years to make the necessary progress in order to move on to other planets. English is already the international language. It would take too long and cause too much disruption for the world to adapt to another world language. Besides, German is not really perfect. As I stated, as long as you have the MEANING of the teachings in whatever language you know, you will be able to gain the needed knowledge and understanding in order to evolve and make progress. Creation does not know German or any other language.

Lonnie Morton
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 03:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Lonnie,

English is projected to be the world language spanning about 10-200 years from now, but after that the dialects will have diverged too much for it to qualify as a world-language. German, however, is standardised such that it will not diverge in its written, "high" form so much, so that, since it is already preserved in Europe and the second-most used language on the internet (for articles, etc.), High-German will become the world language by 2500-2700 or so. Certainly, by 800 years time, it will be. I think I even read something in the Contact Notes to this effect.

It's not logical to think of German or English as the world language as negations of eachother--there is time involved. One will replace the other, with time.

With regard to the divergence of English dialects, one must only look at South African English, or the "Singlish" of Singapore, to see what I mean. These forms are already partly unintelligible to most non-dialect-speakers.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 44
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 04:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

Yes, although this isn't quite an exact description of what Billy says happens. He states in the disclaimer at the beginning of his books, "Eine wichtige Nachricht an den Leser dieser Schrift", that, first of all, "this evolution-code is only completely efficacious when, from the beginning to the end of the text, each word stands in its correct place and is faultlessly written". ("Dieser Evolutions-Code ist nur dann vollstaendig wirksam, wenn von Anfang bis Ende des Textes jedes Wort an seinem richtigen Platz steht und fehlerfrei geschrieben ist.")

He furthermore states that "The evolution-code triggers and releases impulses out from the spiritual realm (Akasha-Chronicles/Storage-Banks), which meet the reader and begin to take effect within him."("Der Evolutions-Code loest aus dem geistigen Bereich (Akasha-Chronik) [he would say "Speicherbaenken"/"Storage-Banks" nowadays] Impulse aus, welcher den Leser treffen und in ihm zu wirken beginnen.")

After describing that the German language is the only one on Earth in which the Code can be properly applied, he also gives some of his opinion on the German language in comparison with others,

"Moreover must it be minded that many words of the German language do not exist in other languages, wherefore all foreign-language translations can only incompletely render the significations of the German original. Upon the above-mentioned grounds is every foreign-language translation of a writing of Billy's to be accompanied by the German original." ("Zudem muss beruecksichtigt werden, dass viele Woerter der deutschen Sprache in andern Sprachen nicht existieren, weshalb alle fremdsprachigen Uebersetzungen den Sinn des deutschen Originals nur unvollstaendig wiedergeben koennen. Aus den obgenannten Gruenden ist jeder fremdsprachigen Uebersetzung einer Schrift von Billy der deutschen Original beigefuegt.")

Also see Contact 241 from the 3 February 1992, in which Billy and Ptaah discuss the inadequacies of the English language in comparison to the German.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 45
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

* Ironically, I made a typographical error above, for some reason typing an 'r' in 'welche' where obviously there should not be one, and didn't notice it when I put the comment through. Obviously this plural agreement is in the English translation, however.

Maybe I should also comment that the English translations above are very literal and not quite ironed-out, so that they match the German more obviously, but if I were to publish translations they would probably be refined considerably. I also would not do this until I had received an "OK" from FIGU with regard to this, and I'm waiting to actually do any major, large-scale translations until I've met with Billy to discuss this issue, which I should hopefully be able to do when I visit the Center next fall. There are some matters which I have thought about and written notes about, which it would seem only Billy himself will be able to understand and clarify with regard to these matters.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Cancerdoc,

I actually think that, due to the semantic connections in the subjective consciousness of the reader which it may enhance, Billy's writings should be translated into as many languages as possible, but particularly the English language, in order to encourage their understanding and assimilation, etc., However, these translations should always be accompanied by the German original, and all persons seriously interested should acquaint themselves with the German language to as great a degree as possible, so that they may choose words and concepts from their own language which truly match for them (and not simply for the translator), as well as understand the concepts more thoroughly which do not exist in other languages. It is important that some of these concepts deeply correspond to the earliest linguistic associations which a person possesses in memory, so, indeed, a good translation into one's native tongue is extremely useful, especially alongside the German text, when one is literate in German.

With regard to one language being a superior medium of idea-transmission to another, this is in obvious evidence when one simply considers the primitive languages of such tribes as the Piraha of Brazil, whose language possesses a bizarre number of semantically-stunting inadequacies (which I think point toward an earlier, one might say bicameral state of human self-consciousness, corresponding to Julian Jaynes' theory, as well as the Plejaren statements about Neugeister. Note, for instance, that the Piraha language contains two varieties (verbal and musical), corresponding to left and right hemispherical processing.)

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

* Noticed another typo (I've had far too much coffee today), where I added an 'e' to Speicherbanken, which makes it look like an umlaut which is not there, but that also reminds me of something important:

Whether the presence of umlauts in the original places is an integral component of the code--I mean, whether the use of 'ae'/'oe'/'ue' makes a difference. It would seem that visually they would, although it also would seem that the code is primarily audible.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Vibka
Member

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Matthew,
I am sorry, but I do not agree with your loose translation of the word "Kraft". It has got nothing to do with craft. According to the Langenscheidt/Collins "Grosses Schulwoerterbuch" (2006) page 715 "Kraft" has following meanings:
a) in a bodily, moral way it would be translated with "strength", in a spiritual/creational use it means "powers"; the military/economics meaning is "strength, power", in poems it would mean "strength, power or force".
b) in physics, when it relates to a reaction, then the word "force" should be used, but if it describes the "Kraft der Sonne" it would be the power or strength of the sun.
And so it goes on in the dictionary, that I use and which is used at schools and universities in Germany.
In the English-German dictionary of Langenscheidt it states that craft should be understood in the sense of "art and craft", or a trade, or a guild (like Freemason's), or in the sense of being cunning, artfulness and so on. Again, I see no connection at all to the German word "Kraft".

Bertelsmann may have changed (I haven't lived in Germany for 20 years), but they used to be regarded as a publisher for cheap, main stream books, whereas Langenscheidt has a long history of specializing in language books. And now that they have joined forces with Harper Collins, I would consider their books to be of higher standard, so I base my translations on them, and endeavour to find the UK English in it as recommended by Ptaah in one of the contact notes.
Regards,
Vibka :-)
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 48
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Vibka,

Well, it doesn't so much depend upon the German half of the translation, as upon the English half, naturally--although I do own a big Langenscheidt myself, and it seems generally to be oriented at modern U.K. English, and some of its translations veer from the etymological significantly.

Although I agree with you that things should be standardised and based upon some kind of mixture of descriptive linguistic for the not-so-clear-cut English side of the translation, I do think that quite a lot of re-working of English terms would have a positive effect on the translations, such as a return to certain meanings of words which have partly been abandoned over the last 50-100 years, since these may be refurbished to contain richer and/or more etymological meaning. I know that this isn't a very scientific description, but if you simply 'feel' or 'taste' the words, you can also recognise which words tend to fit better in a particular place, and, on top of that, since many words' meanings in the English language do not match their Qabalistic values (e.g. people=35=+ its holistic taste/feel=Aasfresser (!)). Since English dialects are diverging anyway, I'm totally supportive of prescriptive re-working of many of its words, as well as the re-enrichment of its vocabulary with many words and word-meanings which have been lost since the 19th century, and an enrichment of its grammar by allowing more flexibility in some areas and less flexibility in others.

With regard to dictionaries, although Bertelsmann may be known for publishing pulp, Wahrig is a pretty respectable and etymologically-oriented dictionary, but if we're going to be so pedantic as to shun one dictionary over another, we might as well use das Brueder Grimm deutsche Woerterbuch, so here it is:

"KRAFT, f. vis, vigor, potestas, facultas. "

...

"II. Gebrauch und bedeutung.

1) kraft des armes, muskelkraft, leibeskraft, körperkraft, manneskraft, heldenkraft, riesenkraft u. s. w.

a) im sing.,

&#945;) es schmidet einer das eisen in der zangen .. und erbeitet dran mit ganzer kraft seines arms. Jes. 44, 12; wenn die kinder bis an die geburt komen sind und ist keine kraft da zu geberen. 37, 3; und Delila sprach zu Simson, lieber sage mir, worin dein grosze kraft sei. richt. 16, 6; menschen, die nimmer von ihrer kraft kummen. FRANK weltb. 195a; der kämpfer ruhte, um frische kraft zu sammeln; seine kraft ist gebrochen, erschöpft; die kraft des genesenden kommt langsam wieder.

&#946;) wer schwach oder ohnmächtig wird, 'verliert seine kraft' u. ä.: erschrack .. das keine kraft mehr in ihm war. 1 Sam. 28, 20, er ward vor schreck schwach, wie gelähmt; kraft und macht verliesen, von vorcht wegen, elanguere. voc. 1482 r 2b. daher wie ohnmacht noch jetzt (älter unmacht, âmaht), ebenso früher unkraft, mhd. auch âkraft (MONES anz. 8, 494, ôkraft HAUPT 8, 530), das dann auch zu abkraft ward. jetzt kommt kraft in diesem sinne etwa noch so vor: da verliesz ihn seine kraft, es 'ward ihm schwach'. vgl. kraftlos 1, a.

&#947;) natürlich auch von thieren: das er (der adler) fahet, friszt er nit zuhand ... sunder holt vor (vorher) sein kraft wider. FRANK chron. 1536 1, 157b, 'erholt sich' von der anstrengung des kampfes (vgl. kobern 1, e);

(der adler) schwingt mit der flügel kraft sich auf das blaue dach
des schönen himmels zu.
OPITZ 2, 105;

wenn ich sechs hengste zahlen kann,
sind ihre kräfte nicht die meine?
GÖTHE 12, 91. "


It sure seems to me to have a finer meaning than simply "Power" does in English, and due to that, it seems to demand a prescriptive translation based upon common etymology, Qabalistic value, holistic 'feel', etc.

Obviously, though, for the Qabalistic part, we must first use a number of known values combined with Semjase's table of the Latin Alphabet's values, in order to deduce these values, or just ask Billy if he can bug Ptaah about it. We know at least 70-80% of the Qabalah of the English language already, but it appears that there are still mistakes which must be cleared up. (Cheiro distorted his results in order to support Christianity, so that his accuracy, although astounding for the time and all the research he undertook in order to achieve these results, was only on the order of 50%.)

Salome,

- Matthew
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Edward
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Post Number: 994
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 05:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Vibka....


I would indeed agree with your translation of Kraft = Power (in Dutch Kracht)

And 'um' = 'in order to' or just 'to'.

The same would apply to Dutch, with: 'om' = 'in order to' or just 'to'.


Craft = "art and craft", or a trade...etc. And as far as I know: not related
to Kraft/Kracht.[as you explained]


Edward.
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Edward
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Post Number: 995
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lonnie....


I also did read in the past, that German would be THE World Language in the
future.

English/English, being a 'temporary' language of/for Communication because,
English itself, plays today a leading role, and is incorporated into our daily
lives, which is/became inevitable.

German is now even being 'promoted' in many European countries! And even in
the EU establishments, Man has prompt German to play a leading role, in
communication....etc. Thus, it seems that German will one day pass-up English,
as seems to be the intention. And thus, this would confirm with what the
Plejarans once mentioned of German being the (main) World language of the
future.

Unless, as you stated: certain circumstance have evolved/developed, that
directed the English language into an upper role, and thus, limiting German as
being secondary!? [we know a Prediction or Prophecy can be averted]


Edward.
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Hector
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Post Number: 352
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 06:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now a non german-born debates a german-born about the meaning of the word Kraft.This is absurd.

It is also absurd that we spend 5days/500 lines of forum space debating linguistics.(he/she, kraft-craft).It seems for many people here little, specific details are more important than the core of the teachings.Language is just a vehicle to transmit information.We cannot study/discuss the vehicle.We MUST discuss the information.This is PURE LOGIC.

It is also absurd that some people feel the unstoppable urge/need to prove and pontificate their talking points.That's called mega-ego, football stadium size. This stupid behaviour diverges attention from real spiritual questions to meaningless , worthless explanations.

Please remember why you all are here.You all came here searching for vital, transcendental and spiritual answers.

If you enter this forum just to debate the meaning of one german word, then you are in the wrong place.I recall Ptaah saying:"The truth as presented in the Geisteslehre is a somewhat simple,tedious and boring study".That is precisely what makes it difficult to "digest".

Simple and clear.No unnecessary information.No unnecessary extras.NO pedantry.Lots of repetitions.Such is the style of Billy's and the P's teachings.

You know why? Because these outstanding wise people who offer their teachings to us, they do not target a linguistically well versed elite.

They target 128 billion humans.Many of them situated in a very low evolutionary level.These teachings, these offerings are a treasury for the whole mankind, for idiots, scientists, geniuses, writers, millionaires, beggars....any social status, any religion, any human condition.

Creation knows no prejudices.Billy and the p's try to erradicate prejudices.We should try it too.
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 52
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Hector,

First, it's necessary to clarify a couple of things: first of all, it is not the meaning of the word "Kraft" in German which we were discussing, but whether a prescriptive translation into English as something other than "Power" is applicable. This has more to do with the use of the English language than the meaning of the German word--and it is also the case that Billy often uses German words in a very etymological sense, and not a 'descriptive' sense of how they are being used at the moment. For instance, Billy uses the word "Seele" to mean "Psyche" and the word "Geist" to mean only the spirit-form, and not the intellect. This is not common parlance in any German speaking country, where "geistig", "Geistesleben", etc., are all used in inappropriate senses to mean "intellectual", "intellectual life", etc. Increasingly, the average German is abusing this word to the point where it hardly even means spirituality in some atheistic circles anymore, but only the intellectual egoism of materialists. This is just one of many examples.

That said, however, it should not be taken as a 'personal defence' of any kind--the meanings of words in their true sense depends upon the mass consciousness and not upon personal ego-trips or whatnot. This is how the relationships between individuals' semantic experiences are tied together by analogy--at a subconscious level there are similarities and there are deep-seated evolutionary lineages to every word. The subjective merges with the objective, eventually--it is not as simple as individual egos arbitrarily deciding meanings.

Also, this is the section for translations, so discussions about the use of words in translation seem to be quite appropriate for this section.

Naturally, I agree with some of what you have addede to this comment, although I must also make a few important points regarding that:

- The Spirit-Teachings are certainly not for the average person on Earth today. They are only for a select few persons who are at the evolutionary level to be able to truly understand them and use them, who will then catalyse the slow "silent revolution of truth" which is predicted to take nearly 800 years (circa 2751) to spread its effects to the general population enough for the Mission to be considered 'complete'--therefore, in a sense, at the moment, it is for an 'intellectual elite', and not something to be preached to the layman as though he could understand it. The teachings should never be "dumbed down" or falsified in any way, but presented exactly as they are and expounded upon in a complex, intelligent way. They are not intended to be fully understood until 2751, when the Plejaren initiate contact with another Earth-human who is an incarnation of the Nokodemjon spirit-form--only then will the terms in the book "Symbole der Geisteslehre" be fully understood, scientifically and philosophically perfectly defined, and only then will the general population be able to understand the spirit-teachings.

Of this sort of liberalism which you express I cannot find a single example in the Contact Notes; not expressed by Meier nor the Plejaren. Meier stresses that, no matter how evolved a person is, they are just a normal human being like everyone else--including Billy. However, he never endorses that the teachings should be watered down or demeaned by futile attempts to explain their finer points to the vulgar.

Billy's books certainly do target a "linguistically well-versed elite"--they discuss extremely profound concepts which hardly anyone on Earth is able to grasp, let alone fully understand.

Billy does state, however, that some of the basic teachings, such as the teachings about how a person should behave to her fellow human beings, etc., are able to be grasped by the average person on Earth, and he has said that these teachings alone would result in enormous changes in the way society works, etc.

Surely you are aware that there are a great number of things which Billy does not even discuss among the Core-Group members, which he and Ptaah, etc., discuss, because they "cannot be understood by Earth-humans at this time".

I do not respect nor am I in support of misled, quasi-heroic populism, liberalism, etc.--these only serve to delude the common man into elevating his self-image to grandiose, delusional heights whereupon he assumes that he has the cognitive capacity and wisdom to "think" falsely "for himself" (not at all influenced by the media, religious beliefs, etc., of course) and completely ignore the teachings of wise men like Billy, that he can arbitrarily decide what is real and unreal, that he has the right to vote for whomever he pleases without regard for logic, the common good, etc. The common man has become a beastly insult to humanity these days, because of the culture of so-called 'democracy', which is of course really much more often only a thinly-veiled form of demagogy. The only way that the common person could ever begin to evolve and reason for herself, is when she would listen to the aforementioned simpler teachings of Billy and other wise men, and not simply assume that everything must be mangled into a form which she assumes she can easily digest, which, through its transmogrification and over-cooking has become nothing more than a sloppy mass of useless slime completely devoid of nutrition.

The average person should not be spoon fed imbecilic over-simplifications of the teachings, but she should be presented with pure, harsh portions of the parts of the teachings which it is known she is intellectually capable of absorbing and understanding.

And of course, rather than rambling on about esoteric bizarrities like this or that which Asket could do with her super-duper technology, I have already posted much on this site with regard to some of those extremely pertinent matters, like emotional intelligence and wariness of cults, which the average person can certainly understand. Although I am very interested in things like how to build a spaceship or a laser gun, or how to formulate a metamathematical proof of the necessity of Creation, I do these things in my spare time, and I don't assume that the average Joe is going to understand an inkling of them.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 53
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Hector,

Actually, I'm afraid that you are even wrong on more points than I had originally noticed--for instance, you even claim that discussing language itself is not important to discussing the information it transmits...which is absolutely ignorant and has nothing to do with "PURE LOGIC". I have mentioned Atlant Bieri's booklet so many times on this forum now that I am not going to waste the energy to link to it again. Search for it on the FIGU Shoppe website. READ IT.

Also, this is a section of the forum devoted to "Translations", and is therefore specifically for the discussion of the language involved--how to convey the teachings, and not the teachings themselves.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Wiebke,

Perhaps also I should point out that, since we aren't collaborating on a translation, there is no point in debating which word is used--of course you may use whichever words you like when you translate; and I'll use whichever words I find fit.

Perhaps what we should do, though, is create our own lists of words corresponding to German terms which are difficult to translate, such as many of the words in Symbole der Geisteslehre.

For instance:

Ahnung=presentiment, foreboding, premonition
Verstand=cognition of and through metaphors (metaphorical cognition), descriptive-explanatory-predictive thinking (think about why I define it this way)
Vernunft=cognition of principles, holistic reason, cognition of form-context
Empfindung=sentient-perception, sentience, fine-material sense
...
&c.

This isn't a competition, if that's the impression some people have been getting--it's just productive discussion, which stimulates, through tensions, rational thinking.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 353
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Billy's books certainly do target a "linguistically well-versed elite"--they discuss extremely profound concepts which hardly anyone on Earth is able to grasp, let alone fully understand."

Matthew, you still don't think logically.All the information related to the Geisteslehre released up to date is exactly the same as the information spread by Nokodemjon and Henok thousands and million years ago.This means the teachings don't vary.What varies is the amount of information presented, but not the contents.This means the information presented is timeless.It targets the human being as a whole, it targets the Omedam in each and every of its evolutionary levels(do you know the meaning of such word Omedam?).

"The Spirit-Teachings are certainly not for the average person on Earth today.They are only for a select few persons who are at the evolutionary level to be able to truly understand them and use them"

The prophet appears in THIS TIME because it's necessary to appear now.The time is ripe.He offers his wisdom NOWADAYS because sectarianism, extreme materialism and de-humanization is at it's peak NOW.He targets today's human beings.Only those free of prejudice will understand him, that's right.But he brings this world the first waves, the first surge of change from extreme materialistic lives to slightly spiritual lives.He catalyzes the times of change.

I tell you that the Prophets NEVER teach or instruct writers, scientists, investigators, politicians, monks, spiritual leaders or "linguistically well versed people".But you sometimes spread disinfo and false interpretations, just like Dyson stated.

Please read OM, Kanon 44, verses 2-10 and then you will find the answer to what kind of people are "suited" to grasp the spiritual teachings.If you don't have the book i will write and translate it for you.Maybe then you acknowledge what kind of nonsense you sometimes regurgitate here, without the least reflection, least understanding of the Teachings and the most irresponsible audacity.

Your problem is simple.You need protagonism and people paying attention to you, instead of Billy.Sad, because sometimes your comments add interesting and very valuable information.Sorry for my poor english.
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Cancerdoc
New member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you all very much for your responses to an earlier question I had.

As a fairly new visitor to this forum and to the world of truth, I can tell you without hesitating that all of you have a lot more in common than sometimes you appear to acknowledge.

Be well,
AG
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 58
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 06:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Hector,

The fact that you have resorted to ad-hominem attacks and conspiracy theories in your argument would seem to indicate something.

Of course, I will not claim that you are some kind of conspirator. However, I will state that you are quite mistaken and certainly over-generalising.

You may judge what you think my intentions are however you like. However, I feel wrongly accused, so I shall defend myself on the point that, certainly, what I want people to do is to read Billy's information themselves, which is why I have pushed the German language to such a degree here. I do think, however, that of course intelligent discussion of the teachings is utterly demanded.

Simply because the teachings apply to everyone does not mean that everyone is expected to understand them at this time, which is only the seeding, the beginning of der Wassermanzeit.

Since you bring it up, I shall now quote the lines you have mentioned, along with the first line of that Canon:

"Kanon 44:"

"1. Im Namen der Schoepfung, der Weisen, der Gerechten."

"1. In the name of the Creation, the Wise, the Righteous."

"2. Preis sei der Schoepfung, die da ist Bewusstsein."

"2. Praised be the Creation, which is Consciousness."

"3. Und es spricht der Prophet ueber das Bewusstsein im Propheten und Weisen und im gewoehnlichen Durchschnittsmenschen."

"3. And the Prophet speaks of the Consciousness within the Prophet and the Wise, and within the undistinguished, average Human Being."

"4. Propheten rekrutieren sich nicht und niemals aus Wissenschafltern, Moenchen, Priestern, und aus hochstehenden Persoenlichkeiten."

"4. Prophets are not, and never, recruited from among Scientists, Monks, Priests, nor from among prestigious Personalities."

"5. Propheten sind stets einfache Menschen, Mannen oder Weiber, ohne besondere Gelehrtheit."

"5. Prophets are always simple Persons, Men or Women, who are not of especial Scholarliness."

"6. Ihr Wissen erlangen sie durch eigenes Studium und durch die Hilfe aussenstehender Kraefte, die immaterieller Art sind."

"6. They win their Knowledge through their own Study, and through the Help of outside Forces, which are of immaterial Species."

"7. Propheten sind darum nie als Wissenschaftler, Hochstehende, Moenche oder Priester gebildet, weil sie neutral-positiv sein muessen und frei von Glaubensrichtungen."

"7. Prophets are therefore never educated as Scientists, the Prestigious, Monks and Priests, because they must be neutral-positive and free from Confessions, Professions, Assertions and Persuasions."

"8. Allein dies gewaehrleistet, dass sie unbeeinflusst von Glaubenssaetzen die schoepferische Wahrheit erkennen und beherrschen koennen, ohne in Unlogik zu verfallen."

"8. This alone guarantees that, uninfluenced by Affirmations and Avowals of Faith, they can recognise and master the Creative Truth, and not regress, devolve and deteriorate into Illogicality."

"9. Wissenschaftler, Moenche, Priester und Hochstehende, wie Maechtige und Amtierende sind durchwegs von vorgefassten Meinungen, Glaubenssaetzen und andern menschlichen und unlogischen Dogmen und Vorschriften gepraegt, die ein wahrlich schoepferisches Denken und Handeln ausschliessen."

"9. Scientists, Monks, Priests and the Prestigious, like the Mighty and the Holders of Office, are thoroughly and utterly moulded by preconceived Opinions, Avowals of Faith and other human and illogical Dogmas and Prescriptions, which suspend and exclude true Creative Thought and Action."

"10. Ein einfacher Mensch jedoch, der durch Dogmen, Meinungen und Vorschriften nicht gepraegt ist, der ist keinerlei Glaubenssaetzen irgendwelcher weltlicher oder religoeser Art anhaengig, so er fuer die reine Wahrheit aufnahmefaehig ist und also schoepferisch erkennend sein kann."

"10. A simple Person, however, who is not moulded and imprinted by Dogmas, Opinions, and Prescriptions, she is not adherent to Confessions of Faith of any worldly or religious Sort, so that she is receptive to the uncorrupted, unadulterated Truth, and therefore can be Creatively cognitive."

I think that it is pretty self-explanatory, and also beautiful and highly logical.

I should also mention that when I spoke by analogy of an "intellectual elite", I certainly did not mean the striver, wannabe "elite" who currently occupy most positions of academic authority and government. They are usually severely out of balance in one direction or another, and therefore incapable of truly logical thought and behaviour.

This has little to do with being 'free from prejudices'. It has much more to do with being free from false belief-systems and the map/territory confusion so common to such 'prestigious' persons.

Synchronistically enough, I posted under the "Religion" thread with information pertaining to imbalances to one direction or another, and, in fact, this has been a major theme of my posts all along.


Salome,

- Matthew
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 356
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Matthew, i'm sorry if sometimes my posts are somewhat caustic and excessively sharpened.I try to pay my due to the teachings, i have a compromise defending the truth and autenticity of Billy's teachings since i have read some of his books and i have begun to apply bits of its offerings to my daily life.I am putting Billy's teachings under heavy fire, heavy scrutiny, heavy analysis every day, to transform them from pure theory into practice or call it wisdom/knowledge.

That does not make me someone special though.Yes, i suspected you had no good intentions in this forum, although now i have a better concept of your contributions.I'm not perfect and i also have to sand the rough edges from my personality.The truth, in my opinion, is not suited for soft and lacy people, and the vehicle which conveys the truth is and has always been harsh language.Maybe sometimes i have to tone down my critiques ....if that's the case i apologize.
German and English are not my native tongues, that's why i do not attempt to translate anything, but i consider your translation was quite precise and loyal to the original meaning.Well done.Anyway i would translate "frei von Glaubensrichtungen" as free from beliefs/free from all the varieties or kinds of belief.That's a minor observation.

Thank you for the translation.
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 61
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Hector,

No, you don't have to tone down your critiques. You may send flaming arrows my way whenever you think I am wrong--this stimulates investigation and rigour. We're all fallible, including Billy--and everything that we say, formulate, etc. should only be taken as knowledge once it has been proven within and without the individual person.

I appreciate your reasonable attitude and flexibility of thought. I feel befriended, actually--that's the best way to describe how I feel at the moment.

I think that we need to separate our ideas and actions from our identity, so that they can be changed and improved, while we still do not lose our brotherly respect and love for one another as human beings. This means being fiery and critical, and rigorous, but not in a way which attacks the person themselves--only their behaviour or apparently erroneous thinking, etc. Ultimately, what is true or not can only be proven in the individual's subjective consciousness--it only becomes effective at that point. Billy wrote about two different kinds of criticism in his essay, "Kritik und Kritik", from "Sinnvolles, Wuerdevolles, Wertvolles"

I do not demand that you tone down your critiques, but merely direct them at actions, individual, specific ideas, etc., and not at persons and not at over-generalised categories (obviously, though generalised categories must be used often, too).

If you speak Dutch as your first-language (that is it, right?), then I suggest doing translations into Dutch, if you haven't already, since, like I said, our native language which we grew up with from our earliest years can be used to greatly aid understanding. Of course, Dutch is quite similar to German in many ways, but there are still a few false friends, different pronunciation, etc. If it doesn't feel 'foreign', one can add to the German original with a translation, so I think that such would be very useful to the whole Dutch-speaking world.

You're welcome for the translation. I shall keep your recommendation in mind for further translations.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 192
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Matthew,

First let me say that I appreciate everyone sharing their translations and/or interpretations of the Meier material. Whether or not I agree with them is less important than the benefit of examining another perspective. Trust in the appropriateness that a certain word selection, or an individual’s translation, as being closer to Billy’s intent, will only come with retrospection and time.

There are a few items in your posts that I hope you can clarify. In Contact 379, Ptaah gives his advice to Billy that all English translations of his writings should be in English English and not American English.

45. Vom amerikanischen Englisch solltet ihr unbedingt absehen, denn es handelt sich um eine banausenhafte, ungebildete und unkultivierte Sprache, die nicht den Werten deiner Bücher und denen aller eurer Schriften entspricht.
45. You should unconditionally refrain from American English because it deals with a philistine, uneducated and uncultivated language, which does not correspond to the values of your books and those of all your texts.

46. Also sollte ein kultiviertes Englisch benutzt werden für alle Übersetzungen, und dieses Kultivierte findet sich einzig und allein im englischen Englisch.
46. Therefore a cultivated English should be used for all translations and this cultivated English can only be found in English English.

In your post 48, of this section, you delve into your concepts of what you believe a good English translation should include: “... a prescriptive translation based upon common etymology, Qabalistic value, holistic 'feel', etc.” Do you think you are saying the same thing as Ptaah? Or do you think you are going above and beyond what Ptaah is saying? You may be asking too much of an English translation, particularly with the Qabbalistic values.

Secondly, regarding your question in post 47 about whether correct German spelling has any effect on the embedded code: the FIGU publications are pretty clear that the embedded code of Billy’s writings works just as well if it is read out loud, i.e. audibly triggered. And we know that the benefits of the Peace Meditation come when those words are spoken out loud. So that’s probably a clue, (Saalome v. Salome).

Thirdly, why did you translate, “she” in Kanon 44:10 in your post 58 above?

Kind regards
Bob
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 63
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Bob,

- Yes, I am aware of this remark by Ptaah. Since I live in Canada, and I generally go by the British rather than the American rules, this isn't much of a problem for me. Even when I lived in the States, I tended to write more British-style English. Since British English can vary a lot in grammatical styles, I think that Ptaah primarily refers to spelling here. Although Noah Webster had good intentions when he simplified many American spellings, it may be the case that, in conjunction with the values of English letters due to English pronunciation, etc., he modified the Qabalistic values of the words in a negative direction. Of course, Standard American English as it is now is nothing like American English was in the 19th century. Arguably, 19th century American English was a richer and more cultivated dialect than English English, actually, but all of these advantages, including a former very clear pronunciation of American English akin to how Orson Welles spoke, have been lost over the past 100 years or so.

- It think that I'm mostly saying the same thing as Ptaah, although I do extrapolate beyond that, in conjunction with other statements throughout the Contact Notes, such as those by Billy and Semjase about Qabalistic values of words and how they are subconsciously registered by the reader. Although I don't make these same demands of others with their translations, I try to be as aware of all of these factors as possible. Also, the way that words feel together in context is a very important part of any writing, both for aesthetics and communication.

- I am aware that the sound of the words is of utmost importance, although it is still not clear to me whether the umlauts contribute interchangeably with an extra "E" to the arrangement of the letters on the page. It is known in Qabala that both the shape and the sound of letters is important to the effect of such a code. Although the code works when one is simply read the writings, it is quite likely that the visual component also reinforces the code's effects. Also remember that Billy intends the words not merely to be on their correct place, but also also that they are "fehlerfrei geschrieben". This is equally important to consider as the remark about the code working when one hears the sentences read aloud.

- I translated it as 'she' because the word 'person' is grammatically feminine by etymology, and it resolves the issue of sexism in English writing if we simply adhere to this rule when describing persons using a noun of any kind; that is, we should always attend to the etymological gender of the word, and apply that gender in the generic use.


Salome,

- Matthew
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 193
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello again, Matthew

Thank you for your clarifications and sharing your thoughts.

It seems to me your etymological rule of thumb should not be so chiseled in stone. As we see in this case, Kanon 44:10 , it does not apply. The real question you should be asking is what best captures the intent and meaning of the original passage. I understand the use of gender reference to inanimate objects or sexless microsystems as a benign indulgence. But, here you are dealing with a spiritual truth.

You claim by using, “she”, that it “resolves the issue of sexism in English writing” all the while, ignoring it’s more obvious effect that you are creating more sexism by referring to all simple people as female. And you are ignoring the masculine use, “er” in the original German:

original: so er fuer die reine Wahrheit aufnahmefaehig
your translation: so that she is receptive to the uncorrupted

In your post 61 you give advice to Hector, “our native language which we grew up with from our earliest years can be used to greatly aid understanding.” Matthew, in the English language, one does not refer to all simple people as “she”.

And as you yourself said ,”... if you simply 'feel' or 'taste' the words, you can also recognize which words tend to fit better in a particular place.”

Kind regards
Bob
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Bob,

I don't agree with the idea that his has anything to do with sexism. If I said "Person" in German, I would say "sie", whereas if I said "Mensch", I would say "er". This has nothing to do with biological gender, but rather, is totally the result of the gender of the noun.

Since I said "person", I used "she", which agrees with the gender of the word "person". This use in English preserves English's grammatical rules (normally "he" for sexist reasons) while removing sexism on solid grounds (namely, etymology). When referring to a person, the use of "he" or "she" or possibly "they" is especially demanded.

There is a great difference between truly and unbiasedly using one's holistic sense to feel what fits (in a fine sense), and seeing the words through completely arbitrary illusion-lenses, which is what has resulted in the 'political correctness' movement and a number of other semantic confusions. Such a feeling could only be secondary, or tertiary, ...&c.. One must think about the reasons why one is reacting this way.

I recommend that you analyse your feelings and not simply take them at face value. Paying attention to superficial feelings alone, without deeper introspection into their causes, can be dangerous.


Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 65
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Bob,

I do understand that this system might take some getting used to, but it should not take long before these simple uses of gender stop being an issue, and are read just the same way that "he" might have been to a non-sexist person in 1960.

The disuse of the gender is essentially both an unaesthetic and futile work--it can't be done in any Indo-European language that I know of with good results. We must simply accept the rich heritage of our language, and return to it some of the life which has been sucked out of it by 20th century impersonal materialism.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Vibka
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Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Hector,

I wholeheartedly agree with your posting from January 05, 2008 – 06:06 am.
We should not waste too much time discussion linguistics. However, sometimes the translation of one word can change the meaning of the whole sentence, so it does concern me when someone puts out a translation, which contains, in my humble opinion, a significant error, which non-English speaking people may not be able to detect.
But what I will do from now on is just offer you an alternate translation on significant points if I feel it needs to be done, so that people don’t get the wrong idea. There’s no need for Matthew or myself to debate who is right or wrong. The intelligent readers of this forum can then decide for themselves, which translation rings true with them. :-)

Salome, Vibka
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 194
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Matthew,

It seems to me you are losing site of the big picture, i.e. what is the spiritual lesson being conveyed in Kanon 44:10. Does the lesson seek to address both males and females who are simple people or does it seek to isolate a sub-group of females separate from the males? Does using “she” get that job done? This is applied logic. And I think if you were truly honest with yourself, you would see it, too.

I applaud your effort in wanting to provide English translations of the Meier material. I wish there were more people doing so. And you seem to have a good handle on the material. So I tell you truthfully as I would to a friend, if you continue to translate the material as you did in Kanon 44:10, you simply will not be taken seriously.

Matthew: “One must think about the reasons why one is reacting this way. I recommend that you analyse your feelings and not simply take them at face value.”

Who’s kidding who here, Matthew! :-)

Kind regards,
Bob
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 67
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From Contact 243, Monday 22. June 1992 2:46 a.m.

"Billy: ...Unsere Schriften sollen ja in der Regel in deutscher Sprache ueber die Welt verbreitet werden. Ist es da wirklich moeglich, dass die Menschen auf der ganzen Welt Deutsch lernen, um die Schriften lesen zu koennen?"

"Billy: Our writings should indeed, as a rule, be disseminated throughout the world in the German language. Is it yet really possible that the humans of the entire world learn German, in order to be able to read the writings?"

"Ptaah: Alle jene, welche sich ehrlich fuer die Wahrheit interessieren, werden auch die deutsche Sprache erlernen. So kann diese Sprache eine weltumfassende Bedeutung finden und die sogenannten bisherigen Weltsprachen vollumfaenglich und ausdrucksfaehiger ersetzen."

"Ptaah: All who honestly interest themselves in the truth, will also learn the German language. Thus can this language find a world-wide significance, and completely and more expressively replace the foregoing so-called 'world-languages'."

"Billy: Das waere wirklich toll, denn dann haetten die Menschen auf unserer Erde eine Sprache, mit der praktisch alles ausgesagt werden kann, was sprachlich erfassbar ist. Das ist leider mit allen anderen irdischen Sprachen nicht moeglich."

"Billy: That would be really terrific, because then the humans of our Earth would have a language, with which practically all that is linguistically ascertainable can be stated and revealed. That is unfortunately not possible with all other terrestrial languages."


(this quote is from page 126 of Block 7)
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Psycloud
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Post Number: 78
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think if people really want to know the truth, they will learn german, and if they know the truth is there, and do not put forth the effort to try and learn it, then they were not that interested to begin with.

Nice quotes by the way.

Salome
Ken
I am truthful to the extend at which I know the truth.
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But does the truth need to be known by humankind on Earth as soon as possible in order to save lives?

If the answer to that is "yes" then wouldn't it be nice and appropriate if the kind German-readers would translate into English for us people who have little time for studying German at the moment? I myself am working fulltime and am a father of 2 young children.

I want to make the entire collection of Meier material available FREE OF CHARGE on a website (or even my website www.futureofmankind.co.uk which already has the largest collection) but how can I be expected to learn German fast and well enough before the proverbial "sh*t hits the fan" in this world?

Does anyone know how long it takes for a single Contact Report to be translated from German to English by the official FIGU team and why?

What strategy have they in their mammoth task to translate all Meier material into English?

How many people are taking part?

How much time do they spend per week on this?

I am under the impression from my limited knowledge of FIGU activity and from the frequency of updates to the English FIGU website that it takes SEVERAL MONTHS for one single Contact Report to be translated or am I living in a dream world?

Bottom line: Is there any reason to give English translations of Meier material a high priority?

Many Thanks
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1398
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi James,

I think the length of time to translate a contact report varies on the length of the contact and who is doing the translating. I am not aware of any official FIGU team that is working on translations. As was stated in the recent questions to Billy, most people would rather purchase a new car than pay to have any of Billy's books put into the English Language. I personally hired a translator to translate The Decalouge, portions of the Prophecies and Genesis a number of years ago...so it is possible. I would say most of the English translations up to this point have been done on a voluntary basis which is very fortunate for many of us who haven't had to contribute a dime.

Regards
Scott
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 328
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

Piece by piece.

I am wanting to donate funds for this specific cause of translating. I realize I could become a passive member and donate by this method but I'm not quite in that kind of a position. Meaning I get paid in irregular times and sometimes it's famine and not feast for awhile. Could we start a general fund with a specific item to translate, and then allow a bidding process with FIGU authorized translators to assess a dollar amount, then we can begin to donate until the needed amount for that certain translation is met. This would also create work for able, out of work, or retired translators.

I don't think there's anyone here that wouldn't want to give something towards that cause. If you are willing to set this up, I'll match the first $500 that this fund receives and we can at least begin some sort of process towards dissemination of critical knowledge.

I fully understand that FIGU would be the sole legal retainer of all publishing rights. I don't think that will be a problem with any good hearted loving person who cares where our world is headed.

I know this is a doable idea. Can you forward this to Christen as I feel his oversight is very necessary.

Of course we can take this up, out of sight of FIGU, but that's a non-choice if you ask me and would only begin to create an unofficial outside source for what I know needs to be a single source material.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Cpl
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Post Number: 340
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems to me Billy & Ptaah are talking pretty longtime there and on a global basis of possibility only.

It is IMHO simplistic to state that anyone wanting to know the truth at this time would learn German. I have no doubt there are a great many hungry for the truth right now who have no idea they might know it if they were to learn German; and there are likely those wanting to know the truth who have no access to German whatsoever. There most definitely is the problem of time in learning any language once one is beyond the free-time years of youth. Most people in middle age have barely enough time to complete their ever increasing work and family duties. Here I do not speak of myself; one can just look around and see it plainly among the people one knows.

In the future, just as for the Ps now, time will not be a problem; just metaphorically plug in a program, do a little practice and in a couple of weeks you can speak, or know enough of, the language.

Given the history of the twentieth century a lot of people would be somewhat surprised, to say the least, to hear the opinion that the truth is only available in German. Alarm bells tend to go off. It is, no doubt, a concept that will take time to root, as there's a natural tendency to think that if you want the truth you wouldn't ask a German. Of course, this basically goes for history (again I'm referring to world opinion, not necessarily my own); but the mindset is there that German is not the language to be trusted for truth -- generally speaking, and it rests on a very painful basis. The average individual searching for truth today would not really think of looking into the German language. The question may be: "Can you really convince the world that they should learn German?" It's no mean task. How are people just going to trust you that if they learn German they will read the truth? People must believe in you and then invest the enormous amount of time, money, and effort, not knowing the truth is available in German, because they will only know it is the truth once they have finally learned the language and read all the material. That could be termed a risky call for people of this generation -- especially with so much at stake in and for this generation.

IMO it will take a couple of generations for enough knowledge and interest to seep out about Billy's writings before any bulk of the people become interested enough to study German at large. By that time much of the work may be available in English, anyway -- with newly invented vocabulary items that come to any language as it embraces new concepts, knowledge, explanations and ideas.

None of this really helps people of today know what Billy is writing, and to keep repeating, "They should learn German." seems to me basically and unknowingly saying goodbye to most of this generation. I hope this is not construed as critical of FIGU, all of whom I am sure are very busy doing all they can to get the word out the best way -- and as accurately -- as they know how. What is needed, as a previous posting informed, is some benefactor with the necessary funds who can help get these many writings -- obviously at great cost -- into English. I've long thought that I'd like to help in this respect myself if only I had the money to solve my own financial obligations first. I am working on this, but there's a life-mountain to climb first. Still, to paraphrase Billy out of context, "One might always be lucky."

Kind regards,
cpl
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 435
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 02:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would gladly donate regularly to a translation fund as long as it is an official FIGU fund and is handled by either Christian, or another official FIGU-recognized handler. So count my vote for doing this...
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 437
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott. Is Decalogue still forthcoming as an official translation project with Steelmark Publishing? If so, when might we expect its arrival at the current rate of progress??? Thanks for your response...
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1399
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Thomas,

I know it is posted on the Steelmark Website and the translation is done, as I remember, but I don't know about the correction phase of it. I had approached Marc Juliano a few years ago about this, but have not bought up the subject since then. If you like I'll see if I can get a hold of him and ask.

Scott
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all Forum Readers,

Deutsch as a language actually historically has no nationalistic attachments, and is by far the most culturally flexible of all of the major languages currently in use. A connection between the German language and German nationalism really did not exist before Hitler in that sense. Obviously Deutsch goes back historically long before even an idea of a united Germanic country existed. Neuhochdeutsch has hundreds of years ahead of it.

The fact is, Deutsch is the "language" of which English is a dialect, too, alongside Dutch and all Nordic languages--but furthermore, Deutsch has converged morphogenetically on a Lyrian-style grammar several Lyrian words and values; and every language on Earth, without exception, is a dialect of Lyrian. Therefore, Deutsch has evolved naturally to fulfil the role of a global culturally-uniting language, the Hochsprache for the Planet Earth.

If you really think that Deutsch has cultural attachments to the country "Deutschland" or even the dreadful mess called the E.U., I strongly recommend you ask someone who speaks Bairisch or Alemannisch what their first language is; I'd say that 4/5 times they'll say their dialect, and not "Hochdeutsch". Billy's first language is actually an Alemannisch dialect. He learned Hochdeutsch in school and from books, the media, etc., like most other Swiss Germans. It is an international language of communication and clarification by nature, and has no attachment to any particular state or culture.

There are even Sanskrit terms and concepts, and terms and concepts from all around the world and throughout all of the Earth's history, showing up in Deutsch, because of its connection to Lyrian, which still exists in the subconscious of all human beings on Earth. Naturally, therefore, ideas pour into das Deutsche from other languages and reform in its terms, and if not, other words converge directly into older words:

e.g.

Deutsch: Zweck="Goal". originally, according to my Wahrig, a peg in the centre of target which was aimed at.

Sanskrit: Sveccha: Free-Will, To do what one pleases/desires/plans.

There are plenty of other examples. Deutsch has just as much to do with Indian culture and even Chinese and Native American cultures as it does with Germanic cultures--it just so happens that it evolved in the Germanic area of the world, so vocabulary is -used- to describe European things in the common parlance. However, as Billy's writings show, all of the concepts in Eastern Mysticism exist in German, due to the teleological influence of Lyrian.

Perhaps I'll write an even more detailed explanation later.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A translation fund is a great idea. I would also donate on a regular basis if such an official fund existed although with my debts and family commitments it would not be much of a donation until my financial situation improved.

Just out of curiosity I went to www.appliedlanguage.com and obtained a quote for a personal 10000 word translation with no optional "proof-reading" and it came to 1500GBP (2000EUR).

Seems a reasonable price to pay for a final year degree course dissertation-sized document wouldn't you agree?
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 438
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Scott, that would be great... :-)
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Peter_brodowski
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Post Number: 383
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i too would donate to such a fund, for translations. no hesitation.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1400
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

Marc Juliano said The Decalouge is the next book up for production. He has passed on my inquiry to the other members of Steelmark and he will get back to me after they discuss it. On another note, I am attempting to contact a person who has done translating for FIGU before and see if her services are available...I'll keep everyone updated as I find out more.

Regards
Scott
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 332
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Scott.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 336
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From "Question's to Billy...."

I just found/realized this response to a question...

"FIGU Switzerland cannot allocate additional resources to English translations. On the one hand the Core Group members already are fully occupied with the actual tasks (preparing and disseminating the German original writings), and on the other hand it is the task of those people, who are living in countries where English is the official language, to make and/or fund the translations
If only a few persons in Great Britain or in the USA would pay professional translators instead of buying a new Ferrari car etc., most of Billy's books would have been translated into English years ago.
We FIGU members don't have the necessary money."

This seems like the answer we need. Now a good system to bring this idea to reality.

Please, there aren't stupid suggestions, any ideas to expedite this to an actual reality will benefit us all.

I hope I'm not stepping on any feet here.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 76
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kingman/Shawn,

However, one must also consider that, with certainty, whichever professional translator one hired would not have any clue about the concepts in Billy's books, let alone have any inkling what the English 'equivalents' might be. Therefore, such translations are bound to be at best a lot of money spent on something inadequate, and at worst a complete waste of money on something damagingly false, inaccurate, and misleading.

As far as Contact Notes go, perhaps translations are not such a big deal, but when it comes to the Spirit-Teachings? One has to not only have deep understanding of a good deal of the concepts in Billy's books; one also has to have utterly mastered the most arcane facets of the English language and attempted to create 'equivalent' concepts in English out of whatever occult terminology, etymological bases, etc., one can gather. It is a task that really could only be semi-adequately accomplished by an utterly devoted volunteer who is driven by the desire to create a piece of artwork, and not by a paycheck to make a translation which might suffice in economic circles.

Perhaps many English speakers are not aware of this, but most translations are a kind of con game on the naiive, who think that a term defined in the terms of one language can be mirrored directly in another language without error. Even if they are done with utmost precision, it is still impossible to directly capture the meaning. The only language on Earth which has enough semantic variety and flexibility to even describe in sentences what an arcane term in foreign language means is Deutsch, and this partly because it has developed half-artificially to foster communication between the different West Germanic languages.

A translation into English, a Low German dialect creoled with French and Latin, which lacks many philosophical terms and is riddled in its current form with materialistic and deterministic philosophical concepts, would require that one utterly maximise their use of several obscure terms, that one actually create new terms through the conjoining of various other terms, etc., and certainly would demand much more than a hired translator could afford.

Thus, if you hire a translator, consider the changes in meaning, etc., which surely would riddle the translation.

Salome

- Matthew
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 212
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is currently a Yahoo Group called FIGUtranslation
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIGUtranslation/

Their description reads as follows:
"The FIGU Translation Group supports the ongoing efforts of English translation and publication of the German books of "Billy" Eduard Albert Meier (contactee of the Pleiadian / Plejaren extraterrestrials) and the group FIGU in Switzerland. The group's primary functions are to provide a central place for donations to be made and tracked for current translation projects and to provide various database and file-storing functions for additional tasks related to the translation process."

Is anyone here in this forum a member of that group and could report on its' status? There may be an opportunity to combine efforts.

Regards
Bob
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Cancerdoc
Member

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone give me specific information regarding translations that haven't yet been translated to English by professional translators---such as:

1) Where are these "official translations" who owns them (is it Billy)?
2) Can one verify these documents or get an official Meier approval that these are indeed valid?
3) Are there any other documents that have been translated but are not yet distributed on sites such as FIGU, theyfly, or steelmark? If so, what are they?
4) How much money would be necessary to achieve goals? (REALISTIC estimate)

I know that this information may be very confidential, but I would very much like to know and would appreciate if someone could contact me or tell me how to contact them regarding these specific questions.

Best,AG
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1401
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob,

Yes the group still exists, but to the best of my knowledge not much has been happening. The group was initially started in 2000 and was called the FIGU OCT Team....it seems around 2004 the group was reformed, but nothing has come of it since, except a few random entries. Initially there were ongoing donations from a number of people for different projects. One project was the translation of Contact Report #1, another was the booklet 49 questions. Contact report #1 can be found on the FIGU USA Website, and of course the booklet 49 Questions can be purchased.

We all had high hopes, but I think with so many things going on and various demands of time and energy things eventually came to a standstill. That's about all I can say about it, that I am aware of presently.

Regards
Scott
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Kingman
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Post Number: 339
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 03:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

If you could maybe just of assumed a better thought than the negative/undoable creation you just gave me, you may of had a chance to grasp that not just 'any' translator would be used. A translator that is unfamiliar with Billy's material would be a battle all on itself.

Of course find an enthusiastic researcher of The Creational Teachings, fluent in German, as well as a solid history of using the English language, is the ONLY target that should be sought.

If I wanted to use the path you were describing, I could just buy a couple expensive translation programs, a few many cross referencing German language dictionaries, and start throwing sections at it and just wait for something to stick.

What I have proposed will most like not find a propertranslator for quite sometime. That's perfectly fine, as it will allow the finances a better opportunity to become substantial, more meaningful and eventually attract a worthy spirit to the job.

So... would you like to donate $10, or would you prefer $20.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 340
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

I am sure you already have the work load you operate comfortably at, but I would like to send you some ideas via email.

A critical point straight away is if this is to even have a chance, the accountability aspect would need to be clearly addressed. Money can make things grow faster, or flat out poison the thoughts of otherwise good people.

I have no problem doing the logistics and framework. It's getting someone such as you, to allow themselves another responsibility in life, and help maintain a donation fund so all would feel comfortable investing their money. Being that there is a certain majority here that sees you as a real human being, and worthy of our trust, a positive statement from you could really help start the ball rolling.

With or without your direct help I am positive we will be able to begin forming a resource to help pay for these life transforming translations. Anything worthwhile is never easy, and anything easy is never worthwhile.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1403
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

It was suggested to me by Christian, the person who I thought may be suited for doing translations may not be the best choice. I think from what Christian stated to me, it would be a better choice to locate someone in England who would have a better handle on the English/British language. This was brought up by the Plejarens as well. Perhaps if there are members from England, you might want to let yourselves be known as a possible resource in locating someone.

Thanks
Regards
Scott
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 150
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that is a very illogical and limited conclusion to reach, that only people living in England can speak English well enough to be able to do translation of the Meier material! I have read what the Plejaren have said about the need for the english to be more British English than American, but please, think logically about this!!

Robjna
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 344
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott,

I'm English, born in London, and an English educator. I've published some papers and am currently writing a book. I do not know German, though, although I am in the process of arranging for a German friend to give me German lessons. I'm sure it will be some years before I am capable enough to translate anything into German though -- if ever. Also the teacher may not be available for very long (long story). He has already translated a couple of Billy's writings into German, but Dyson made it clear that in his opinion his (AW's) efforts would not really suffice.

I can fairly regularly recognize some turns of phrase that could be written more correctly or better, but not knowing German my opinion here on matters of accuracy of the English language doesn't seem to count for much at all. Everyone is so afraid (understandably) that the original German would be compromised, as it probably often is.

You probably need a native British speaker and writer who is fluent in German.

On another note, I often wonder why the Ps allowed Billy to tender such a poorly written English letter introducing him as their liaison or representative (for want of the exact term) to certain heads of state, or the USA back in the 70s. Such English could only have been received with a snicker and the opinion that it was by someone just attempting to both con them and write in English. Surely no self-respecting ET would have let that pass; surely they would have known it was incorrect English. The Ps must have basic English ability at their command or in their computers. They did, after all, compare it with German and attempt to use it to give expression to the spiritual teachings. In finding it insufficient they must have amassed an exact working knowledge of the language or they couldn't have given it a fair trial. They could also learn it themselves in a couple of weeks. It would seem they were never really serious about having that English letter accepted by world governments, or they would have gone to the little trouble of putting it correctly into the appropriate language so it would receive the proper attention and not look like a poorly made-up attempt at communicating by a local of a non-English speaking country. If you were going to visit another world and about to introduce yourself to its leaders wouldn't you at least ensure you were correctly using the language they use? I certainly would. Misunderstandings could be tragic.

Anyway do feel free to ask me to proof read any translations you do. I have also done professional proof reading. I should be able to fit the time in, and would be pleased to do so.

If you notice some American English in my postings here it is because when I started writing professionally in Japan only American English programs were available on computers -- or word processors at that time. So I used American English and also published papers in American English. I am, however, about to switch back to British English for my book and future publications, as these programs are available on computers now, and my book will be aimed at a world audience, rather than just Americanized Asia. I speak and write both American and British English and have taught both.

I do think British English is the more exact of the two; so much American has become a near slang and the dialect so full of colloquialisms as to actually litter the language. Orally this is happening to British English too, but there is less acceptance of these "innovations" in British schools than in American schools were students can gain points for "original" misspellings.

Here is a sample of current American English by the beautiful and presumably "well educated" Miss Teen USA candidate from South Carolina in answer to why she thought only 20% of Americans could locate America on a map:

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some … people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should – our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for our children.

You can watch her present this nonsensical monologue here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII

I hope one day to be able to visit you in Switzerland and help in the financing and producing of a good book in excellent English. Not that there aren't some available. Guido, his translators and proof readers have done an excellent job e.g.

There are, of course, some excellent American writers of English, but British English is closer historically to the European and German language. American English was developed by purposely taking liberties with the English language so as to give it a new individual American identity -- which the early Americans wanted to characterize themselves as separate and different from the British. And in its early history the brave USA settlers suffered by not having schools for large numbers of their children living in the new countryside. There was a literal breakdown in English communication, and the national language was pretty much up for grabs at times with German, French and Hebrew all contesting against English for the title of the new language of the USA. American English is a newer version of English lacking much of the original character and nuances of British English and its Germanic roots; it was made by the American common people themselves to a large extent, which accurately describes, I believe it was Samjase's classification, of it being a language "more philistine" than British English.

Best
cpl
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Trevor
Member

Post Number: 22
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think that is a very illogical and limited conclusion to reach, that only people living in England can speak English well enough to be able to do translation of the Meier material! I have read what the Plejaren have said about the need for the english to be more British English than American, but please, think logically about this!!"


I agree Indi. I don't know why the P's said that.

Perhaps it had something to do with all that typical Yanky RA! RA! RA! was why the P's said that. Yanks seems to have an inherent way of liking to beef everything up.

And what about people living in Australia? They should be fine to do translations of the English language.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Cpl,

While I look forward to you learning German and I admire your fortuitous mastery of the English language, I do have a few remarks to make:

Firstly, I must warn you that some parts of Billy's writing simply cannot be rendered into both proper and semantically-sufficient English, and furthermore that many German terms simply can never be translated adequately.

With regard to British English, although the spellings and in some respects the vocabulary in use are Qabalistically, semanticaly, and logically superior to North American English, North American English used properly is just as effective as British English for translations, and also, in fact, superior in some respects.

With regard to closeness to the High-German language, the American English also possesses many direct translations from High-German, similar to British English, some of which have diseappeared from British or since been reintroduced from the American. This is a result of both the retention of a number of Middle-English terms, and the introduction of terms by direct translation into American English during the 19th and 20th centuries.

About your semi-historical assessment of the American dialects, I must make a few corrections. For instance:

- At one time, due to Noah Webster's grammar book, American English was more generally standardised than British English

- British dialects, such as Scots, Hibernian, and the various dialectical pronunciations in England, etc., are far more divergent than any American dialect from Received English. (Scots, however, for one, is far closer to German dialects than either Standard British or Standard American English.)

- British English was once a somewhat barren language in some respects due to excessive Latinisation, such as for instance the eliding from the vocabulary of such useful and traditional words as "colourful" and other Germanic-style derivations.

- It appears from my perspective and from what I have read in the Contact Notes that it is the American spelling which is most degenerate and negative, and is the primary Americanism to be avoided. (I personally haven't used American spelling for around 8 years now, initially for aesthetic reasons.)

- As far as Semjase's comments about American English, this was actually Ptaah, and he said "unkultiviert" and "banausenhaft", which mean, respectively, "uncultivated/uncultured" and "pertaining to a person who has no sense for art or aesthetic". I agree with him in relation to many forms of common American English, although I do not think that the same can be said of e.g. Edgar Allan Poe or Walt Whitman. I honestly think, from my perspective as a reader and writer in English, that 19th century - early 20th century American literary English was on equal footing with the British literatary English of the time (and in some respects superior to the aristocratic English forms).

- All forms of English are Low German (Northern German) dialects which have been mixed partly into arguable Creole Languages with dialects of Latin and Greek (French is a Vulgar Latin dialect). (Borrowings from other languages, such as Gaelic, have not occured in Standard English to such an extent as Latin and Greek dialects, not even in Scotland and Ireland. Note, e.g., grammatical borrowings from French, such as "it is me".)

- Lastly, one of the most important things to consider is that American English marked the beginning of the true breakdown of the established divide between the literary/artistic and proper/official dialects, collectively, and the common dialects. Note that I do not mean in any way that Mark Twain's work in dialectal Southern American English or that, in Britain, Robert Burns' Scots poetry, contributed to this degeneration! Clearly such works of dialectical art can have no negative effect on the more standard literary dialects. However, in the U.S.A., the official language of communications itself, since the mid 20th century especially, was mixed degeneratingly with the everyday, slurred, practical, lazy dialects; television played a decisive role therin. Now we have a situation where the President of the United States of America is barely able to formulate simple, artful bits of improvised rhetoric. This may, in fact, be due to intentional efforts to destroy the written language (spoken languages always contain simplified, slurred, diverging dialects for practical reasons), but such conspiracy theories, or even the completion of this explanation would require far too long a post, so I'll stop now.

Salome, and good luck with learning High-German,

- Matthew
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would it be acceptable to FIGU if I made available every single English-language Billy Meier book on my website, free of charge (of course it must be free)?

I intend to scan in every single page from every single book and convert them into Wiki articles using optical character recognition software (for example ABBYY FineReader 9 Pro) so that they are indexable and thus searchable by all search engines. There are other reasons for this conversion also. e.g. printing, reading....

If not then I would be very surprised and alarmed but I need to confirm this with the copyright holders.

Scott would you verify this please?

Thanks
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1404
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 04:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James,

Are you talking about English books and texts which have been translated and published by FIGU? If so, yes there might be a problem with copyright laws. In addition, any money that is generated by FIGU in the sale of books, which helps recover printing costs would cease. From my limited experience with OCR, their not 100%, which would mean each printed text would have to be proofread for accuracy...

Regards
Scott
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1406
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

Last week I mentioned I was in the process of contacting someone regarding translations. Today this person replied to me and stated she was available to begin translating. As I recall this person was born in the US, but since has moved out of the US. She has done some translations and was mentioned by Dyson when his website was online.

As I stated earlier, Christian suggested we attempt to find someone located in England because of certain aspects of the British Language which tend to stick closer to the original meaning of the German versus American English. Since then there has been discussion about this amongst people on the forum. I am no language expert, so I am not in a position to comment on this.

The next question which must be addressed is how will a translation be presented. Will it be something considered to be an "unapproved authorized" translation, or will it be "FIGU Approved", or "unauthorized unapproved"? If it is to be "FIGU Approved", this would require corrections by someone most likely in the core group. Considering the workload involved in this process, this could take some time, beyond what some people may have the patience to wait for.

Another aspect of this is how will this translation be made available to others? What will be translated and how will this decision be made? Will it be put into book or booklet form, electronically distributed etc....Will people be charged a fee and how much? Will people who are willing to make donations to a translation fund be ok with charging others a much smaller amount after the translation becomes available or will they want to be compensated for their initial investment?

I know I am just covering some very basic issues, but I want to get the ball rolling if people want to discuss this further.

Regards
Scott
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 590
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott ;

Of course we shouldn't discount the possibility of and English born and schooled person who lives in the US , or anywhere else in the world .

Concerning the matter of translation business , finances and guidelines , I think this should be carried out on the yahoo translation group , and keep it for serious parties to consider . Mainly I say this because issues that arose in the past project would be mentioned , and should be discussed among the previously involved persons only .

Or should it ? Just an idea , in a slow conversational format.

Salome , Mark
Mark Campbell
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Cancerdoc
Member

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear core group or to whom it may concern,

This topic (translation of documents) is clearly the most important challenge and opportunity of a lifetime. The impact of what you folks are doing seems quite magnificent to the point where I don't understand why more progress hasn't been made. Sharing this material with others seems like the ultimate act of love and selflessness.

If money is the issue primarily, then you must have a clear plan and a clear monetary goal and then work towards a goal that people will feel comfortable giving their hard-earned money to help achieve. Otherwise you will have a loosely kept secret for the better part of our lifetimes. This is the ultimate cause is it not?

Please keep the fire under your bellies because the beauty of that "ah-ha" moment when things in life seem more clear is worth sharing with all of your fellow beings in all nations and in all levels of evolution and circumstance.

I sincerely appreciate the fact that so much work is involved in the maintenance and pursuit of the mission of FIGU. In no way do I even remotely suggest that things haven't unfolded in perfectly fine order, I just want to offer a suggestion from an outsider's view.

Best wishes,
AG
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 341
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott,

Give me a couple of days to reply to your thoughts. I can offer more ideas on this after I finish some certification classes my work has arranged for getting me promoted.

We will need to have clear directives and reachable goals for such a project to maintain longevity, so I need to free up the brain space before I begin devoting my focus in this endeavor.

I'll have plenty of free time beginning next week. I'm really excited about beginning the initial phase of creating another avenue for Billy's writings. Thanks Scott!
a friend in america
Shawn
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This information (translations of contact reports) is so important it should be freely available to all via the Internet, in the first case.

Books can be considered later in my opinion.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster
www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 07:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott.....


Sounds Great!

Give it a try, I would say!

"Trying never hurts!"


Edward.
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 342
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Translation Exclamation

I'm curious to the level of awareness that currently exists on this forum towards the creation of a translation program. If you read this post, I would appreciate a simple response from your thoughts on this idea:

Accumulating donations towards employing a German/English translator, or team of translators, to produce English articles of the writings of Billy.

Maybe just a one or two word statement such as the value you place on such a project, as in,

extremely important,
very important,
important,
somewhat important,
slightly important,
not important,
not necessary
not interested.

The decision for any action will need the support of as many of the readers of this forum as possible. Without a solid base of concerned and involved participants, any system created to bring more of Billy's teachings to the English world, will hardly have a chance at succeeding. Knowing what we have to work with will be a reasonable starting point. Your responses will help form an understanding if this is a feasible method/direction to bring Billy's message to others.

I encourage you to at least visualize what that could be as a workable plan. Once you are capable of seeing this in your minds eye, the actual beginning can proceed through our combined and focused will/desire that is directed by a well conceived step by step plan. The level of involvement will be decided by ones self.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Fisher
New member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clearly, more important than the need for english translations is the need for us all to learn German. Having said that, I would love to see more official translations being done and would be happy to personally divert some regular funds in the direction of a serious effort.

P.S. I was schooled in British English and would also be happy to help with proof reading. I am in New Zealand.
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 347
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think people may have difficulty saying how much they value such a project without knowing who will be doing it and without seeing samples of their work.

It really IMO depends upon the ability of those employed/entrusted to accurately translate the material. So often a translation is later effectively said to be insufficient, and yet another edition has to be published. Witness TJ.

Regards,
cpl
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 344
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reply's.

Hi Fisher,

Welcome to FIGU! Knowing/learning German is of course the higher goal, I am also aiming at creating more material for people who would be helped if Billy's knowledge became more available. The idea is not to circumvent the learning of German, the goal is to bring the truth to more people on this planet who desperately could use it for a better world. I will add your name to the list of willing contributors towards helping create another avenue of distributing Billy's work.

Hi Cpl,

Any direction that will happen in regards to implementing this idea will of course need to be discussed amongst all the participants and any advisors that are involved. It wouldn't be very difficult to allow a potential translator an initial few sentences to convert and show their grasp of the needed level of comprehension.

I assumed that everyone would visualize the project working in its most ideal form, not that it will be as such. To respond to my question with the thought of it being a poorly run, minimally rewarding operation wasn't my intention. Inaccuracies, such as in the TJ, will be a part of it, as that is the reality of information that will eventually bring this worlds powerful, false belief systems to dissolve. Personal view points will always need to be weeded out with a process that could be styled similar to what is done at SSSC when they proof read the material before it is released.

I am hoping that others will begin offering suggestions on how to make this a viable effort. Any thought that may add to the forming of a workable design is very appreciated. I truly wish, and need, for this to be a group effort. I know that I'm going to begin creating this idea regardless of how small the input from others becomes. I can say that I'm only going to begin learning this material on an even greater scale as I become more and more engaged in its fruition. To me, it's a win-win for everyone. If I fail, I learn. If I succeed, I learn. If I involve others, we all learn.

To the moderators,

Maybe this idea is better suited as a separate sub-topic....
a friend in america
Shawn
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps continuing this dialog through e-mail might also be appropriate, I think we already have enough topics.

Scott
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 345
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

If the dialog is mainly through email, the level of awareness with forum members will suffer greatly. And email may create an air of secrecy, hidden away from others view. Making this into an exposed project will help in building upon the ideas as they form. There will be many questions surfacing that can be answered best by someone who may be highly experienced in the area the question is concerning. I realize using a normal forum in this sense is a delicate and sensitive issue due to the idea of donations being involved. The chances of this being anything more than just another idea is small. Yet it is a needed element for expanding the knowledge deeper into society.

If it does begin to create interest within a reasonable time, moving the scope of it to a seperate website would become feasible. It does need a certain level of support from members here to have a chance at being realistic.

Another topic isn't needed, I was offering an option towards maintaining the topics core subject.

To all forum members:

I would appreciate reply's on the idea presented in my previous post, everyone is welcomed to email me at :

soundstream@sbcglobal.net

To not try doesn't seem logical.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Annie
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 08:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all - A little reminder please:

http://us.figu.org/portal/Home/AWordtoOurReaders/tabid/68/Default.aspx

... And here's some additional important information:

Unfortunately we have to realize time and time again that unauthorized translations of Billy's books and writings are made and disseminated -- especially through the Internet – which are full of distortions and mistakes ... Once again we repeat ourselves: All translations into any language must be made directly from the German original, by capable experts and with written permission by the author (Billy/FIGU)!

We ask you, dear FIGU friends, to inform us if you detect translations of our writings in order that we can check the issue. Moreover, it is recommended that all those who are interested in the Truth may keep to the translations that may be found on FIGU Switzerland's or its Study Groups' web-sites, or follow the official links.

Thank you.

FIGU"

Also see "Talkativeness " - http://us.figu.org/portal/AboutFIGU/Talkativeness/tabid/87/Default.aspx

"In order to prevent any misuse of the contents of our writings, and also for your own protection and the protection of the truth we will give you the following advice and explanations:

In the first place you should use all of FIGU’s textbooks for your own education. Never let yourself be enticed—because of sheer enthusiasm for truth or a craving for recognition, among other things—to perform propaganda or missionize in order to win or convince other people for the teachings. In doing so you can do great harm to yourself as well as to others.

Studying spiritual matters is always connected to a consciousness-related process. Every individual must be mentally prepared to confront himself with truth, and he should also get the chance to work for this preparedness himself ..." - I recommend reading the full document.

Salome,
Anthea C.
Passive Member, USA
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Anday727
Member

Post Number: 82
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Studying spiritual matters is always connected to a consciousness-related process. Every individual must be mentally prepared to confront himself with truth, and he should also get the chance to work for this preparedness himself ..."

Thank you dear Anthea. Welcome.:-)

Salome,
Dejan
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 346
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Anthea,

Welcome also. Although I suspect you have been a long time reader of this FIGU forum. :-) And thanks for taking the time to respond in regards to this idea of bringing more of Billy's writings to the English speaking world, probably the area that needs it most, IMHO. The scope of this idea is to formulate a qualified system of translating the materials with parameters that meet all the conditions that would be acceptable to the guidelines laid out by FIGU and Billy.

If you go back and read some of my other forum posts on this thread, you'll come across what the intensions are about in this endeavor. As far as the documents you post links towards, I have read them several times previously and fully understand the points that are clearly presented. I have zero intentions of reaching towards any of the ideas that Billy describes as harmful to humans. I believe that any material that may become translated should be the sole property of FIGU. I am just proposing a way to create a larger library of Billy's work in the English language. That's all. I do not want to distribute, missionize, propagandize or become recognized in any form for my efforts.

Without a doubt there are many millions of people that could use Billy's teachings on our planet. As more and more English translation do become available the chances of change on our planet will ultimately increase in opportunity. Billy and Figu are not able to afford this other area of costly production and helping that matter can be accomplished in more than just one way. We can donate straight to FIGU for instance. That is one of my personal options if nothing comes of my attempts. Chances are the money will be spent on various needs and not solely on English translations.

I am seeking ideas towards ways of making more of Billy's material available in English, period. This is for myself and all others who have yet to learn German. Learning German which is also on my list.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 05:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kingman why dont you contribute towards adding content to http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk?

The main benefit of that website is to provide a single place for all Meier material in the English language in a format that is very readable, searchable and secure. Using the MediaWiki technology also allows EVERYONE to contribute. So you all have zero excuse now. Everyone interested in making the translations available to the English speaking world can put them up on that website.

Once you have added an article I will review it for errors and then once they are corrected I will lock it which will protect it from further changes.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 347
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi James,

I agree. I think a contribution towards your efforts is an appropriate way for helping more of the English-only readers of Billy's materials. Other than yourself, who else proofs the translations posted? I understand that as the material is read, others can point out needed corrections. Still, the people who will visit your site and copy sections that may contain uncorrected passages could propagate the errors by the distribution that they may start.

I have read your site and it's a definite tool for discovering more about Billy and his mission.

As for the idea I posted to create a program for translating more of Billy's writings...

After several reply's from helpful and aware individuals, it's clear
the task of properly presenting the knowledge and materials that represent the truth for mankind to survive, will need to be coordinated by a well defined faculty of members, who are much more prepared to comprehend and direct the enormous responsibility created by Billy's mission. As much as I would like to think I could manage such a task, the fact is I need to greatly increase my knowledge and study of the materials before I can apply any real passion to such an endeavor.

Thanks to all who responded. I have some simpler ideas on how to help that only involves me, and that will be my wisest decision I've made so far in this action
a friend in america
Shawn
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 05:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kingman,

Thank you for donating towards the cost of maintaining www.futureofmankind.co.uk. It is very welcome and appreciated.

I am the only one who proof-reads the English grammar and presentation of the translated articles.

The translation accuracy is already established since the posted articles must have come from an existing valid source i.e. figu.org, theyfly.com, the late gaiaguys.net websites or a published and FIGU-approved book.

What needs to be done with the futureofmankind website next is, in my opinion, the following :

* special bulletins need to be added
* miscellaneous articles need to be added (e.g. all those from theyfly.com) - pdf unlocking is no barrier as I have an unlocking program.
* new article translations must be completed either by forum members here or by professional translators and then added
* general hyperlinking within existing articles need to be added so that keywords within articles can lead a reader onto another article which contains a further explanation e.g. see the Eduard Albert Meier link on the main page of www.futureofmankind.co.uk
* additional functionality should be added such as content for the "community" menu option on the left-hand side etc.

My current knowledge of Billy's writings is rather limited also. I need to look up most information on the website when I desire to recall it once more. My memory capability is probably the greatest negative factor in remembering Billy's writings second to the fact that I have not read his full library of created works in the original German as yet...indeed who here has done so?
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Syn
Member

Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James, send me an email of what exactly you want me to do and i can send you a script that does just that

lets.do.this@live.ca
They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then the truth as the authority

-Gerald Massey
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Marc
Moderator

Post Number: 196
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi James ~

First of all, good to meet you and thanks for your interest in organizing and consolidating -- something I’m a complete fan of doing myself.

I believe someone in the FIGU Society USA had responded to your question through the FIGU Society site about your Wiki and that you would be contacted shortly about a discussion that the Core Group was to have concerning your site. I assume you received a response about this?

It would be a good idea to hold off on expanding the site until you hear back. I personally find it useful from the perspective of it being a centralized, searchable repository that appears to be neatly organized and so forth. But as you know, there are of course things that need to be considered, some of which were accurately brought up by Anthea, and other items that concern basic copyrights and distribution of published material. You seem to already be aware of the strict approval process that is needed with material like this, which is good.

I believe the folks at Gaiaguys were given a unique approval by FIGU for posting their rough translations. But I know this doesn't apply across the board to just anyone (even professionals) who can translate FIGU's material from German to English. (You said, “new article translations must be completed either by forum members here or by professional translators and then added”). At least from my view, Gaiaguys have an understanding about the Mission-related words they were translating and have a mastery of English that is hard to come by in translating the verbose and segmented writing style in most of the FIGU books. FIGU would probably be in a better position to explain more about their thoughts on this, including the extent to which they were supporting it.

The bottom line: I feel organizing and consolidating this material is beneficial. I do realize that you are talking also about the collection of previously approved texts and so forth. But a good question to work through is to what extent can this be done without compromising the security of the texts, the publication efforts to produce tangible literature, etc.? As a publisher, I have an idea of what it takes to produce a book that you can put on your shelf and that can endure through time. Yes, it takes lots of money! But I think the time required and attention to detail are always the more important hurdles.

And FIGU is well aware of the notion that many feel all of the English FIGU material should be freely posted and as fast as possible because “the world needs to know.” Maybe the “as fast as possible” part holds some merit with them :-). However I think it all needs to be done with care and with consideration for the big picture. The background of the Mission as a whole is incredibly extensive in scope and duration and it will be successful if it’s done in manageable increments through a gradual process. In my opinion, the bulk of the world is in no way, shape or form ready for this information. But those who really want to learn about it can and will do so, regardless of any apparent barriers.

Hi Kingman ~ There is (despite potentially furrowed brows of disbelief) a plan for the Contact Reports translations. There has been an account of funds held in reserve for translating and/or publishing the Contact Reports in a Yahoo Group called "FIGUtranslation" some time ago. The project has endured its ups and downs in productivity and has been, no doubt, very much long in the tooth. But it is still on the table and is planned for production by Steelmark right after the Decalogue, which is scheduled for release this year. The model for the Reports is of course the latest volumes of FIGU’s German “Kontaktberichte” that have appeared this decade. We could talk more about the particulars of that project, the funds, etc. in the FIGUtranslation group if anyone’s interested.

But I’ll try to get in here and make my voice heard more often (as a moderator, no less. :-) I’d like nothing more than to see more serious and organized translation, donation and publication efforts for this material all working in relative unison. Maybe we could clarify some more things about all of this and the translations, etc., in general, hopefully with input from CG members.

Regards,
Marc
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marc,

I still haven't received a full response from the CG49 about www.futureofmankind.co.uk yet but I'm sure there will be one soon. Check the http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/index.php/Current_events for the latest updates about this.

I'm glad to hear that the Contact Reports are going to be produced in the "near future". Will the first part be published within 2 years do you think? I'm guessing it will be published in several parts being so large! I'm eager to find out more. Authorise my yahoo group application would you, please friend? The username that applied was jamesgtmoore.

As far as the effort and costs involved in publishing a solid book is concerned, I can imagine rather a lot also! I would hope that http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk will complement all published valid books on the subject and not undermine them.

One day I imagine it will be appropriate to make all texts available on the Internet for free and in whole form. The arguments for and against that at the moment are, in my opinion, both compelling though. The need to inform Earth civilisations about the truth is as great as the need for publications to have the cost at least refunded and then some more for investment into future works, feeding the family of the authors, providing a roof over the heads etc.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 350
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi FIGU,

Just read again the "A word to Third World War" at http://www.steelmarkonline.com/download_files/Billy_on_WW3.pdf and noticed some fine errors in the English version. The third paragraph opening sentence is very cumbersome and difficult to understand in syntax and nuance though the general meaning is pretty clear. It does, however, need working on. I have proof read this and offer corrections for you. Perhaps someone could ask Billy if the third paragraph and the following is correct now. "Immediate" may need to be "immediately" depending on the nuance intended, i.e. is it at this point talking about the prophecy's fruition or the action of the people/person bringing it into fruition in some form?

In the spirit of the later prediction about women coming to the fore I have put them first in the “she/his” and “s/he” citations. The latter also being the shortest and arguably least cumbersome way of writing these two words together. Alternatively, of course, “the person’s” or “the person” could be used.

Corrections – most of which are minor but really necessary for both correct English and acceptance by educated people in English speaking countries – begin with the third paragraph. “….” denotes fine up to and/or after that point. Context determines which:

"A word to Third World War" (English Corrections)

"When a prophecy is made, the significance of its representation is that the effect arising out of a negative cause will be shown. If not immediate it can be enacted in a different or positive way, because as a rule, the negative will be laid out to the human being that s/he has developed out of causes. This therefore enables the human being to think about the evil s/he is just about to create. Therefore, the consequences, i.e. the negative effects of her/his actions will be pointed out in a prophetic manner, so that the human being can begin to act reasonably and avoid evil consequences, i.e. negative effects, and make something good and positive out of her/his thoughts, feelings and actions. Therefore, it depends on human beings themselves whether a prophecy does fulfill itself or not….And that is correct in the case of the Third World War, which in fact does not have to happen if human beings finally will be reasonable and bring the powerful and mighty to their senses. Those, who in fact are all the stupid, power-hungry, greedy-for-profit, self-complacent, greedy, hateful and idiotic people crazy enough to launch wars and incite those of the people who are stupid and idiotic and will scream pro and hurray and take up arms to kill innocent human beings.

No correction for the first two sentences of paragraph four:

"….Neither in recent times nor in times past has a prediction been given for a Third World War; only prophecies exist, that do not have to fulfill themselves in this respect, as everyone knows, if human beings act reasonably against these and do not let the threat become reality. Therefore, in respect of a Third World Fire, it depends entirely on the reason, behavior and action of the human being -- whether s/he will let the prophecy become reality or not.

"There is in fact not a Third World War predicted. The prophecies speak solely of a possibility that such a war could become reality in the years 2003, 2006, 2010 and 2011; and in later years too, if the human being continues to pursue war on a military, political and religious basis and does not apply reason but lets the might of religion and states muddle on, and allows the stupid and idiotic to be incited by irresponsible and criminal elements.

Only one word and a few minor punctuation points for the final paragraph.

"An ancient prediction speaks of women who, in the third millennium, will come into power and create peace, freedom, love and harmony; subsequently men will be forced to relinquish their despotic rule they have kept for thousands of years. Truly a very pleasant prediction, but it will….
Unfortunately it is true in this respect too, that all the beginnings are difficult, and “false mothers” will at first take the rudder until the “true mothers of the millennium” will take the destiny of mankind into their hands and create a world in which fear of misery, suffering and wars will be gone, as well as greed for power and injustice which the mighty power of men had forced upon mankind of earth for thousands of years with their greed for power and control, and in their overbearing behavior.

Original for comparison is here: http://www.steelmarkonline.com/download_files/Billy_on_WW3.pdf

Hope it helps,
Chris
www.chrislock.com
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 351
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The long hyphen between "human being" and "whether s/he will let the prophecy become reality..." may well be best left out with no punctuation at all there. All depends on the original nuance, which presumably someone at FIGU is aware of.

Regards,
cpl
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Marc
Moderator

Post Number: 197
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James ~

I think the publication of the Contact Reports within two years could be realized. It will be published in a similar format to the German FIGU versions, although perhaps not in A4 format. The length of German sentences compared with their English equivalents may allow us to reduce the finished size and still retain approximately the same thickness of each volume.

Maybe “one day,” as you’ve said, but it will likely not be possible for a web site such as yours to post the large, bound volumes and works by Billy Meier / FIGU in this day and age, including many of the smaller booklets that are sold by FIGU and its daughter groups. You'll hopefully be hearing from FIGU about this soon. But speaking strictly from my own POV as a co-publisher in the company Steelmark, free posting of any material that we publish absolutely would undermine our ability as a small, niche-market publisher to operate and fund production of books - books that will always trump electronic formats in their durability, accessibility, mobility and capability for resisting alteration through time. It probably should go without saying, but just for the record, I would highly recommend that you not consider doing so. The world has clearly not evolved to a point where production and labor expenses for a good product can be justifiably side-stepped for a cause, truth-bearing or not.

As I mentioned earlier, anybody who wants to find truth will ultimately do so. There is more than enough free information provided by FIGU to entice - if not satiate - the truth-seekers out there. And it should not be assumed that there are countless "needy" individuals out there who are somehow deprived of truth. I think that anyone ready and with the will enough to strive for truth can and will pull himself up by his own bootstraps and find it, if not learn another language in order to read it.

Anyway I also look forward to hearing FIGU’s thoughts on the matter.

Marc
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 07:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marc,

Your words ring with the sound of truth and commonsense to me. The information should not be handed "on a plate" in its entirety to humans, the majority of which, do not deserve such information for free. With a small amount of money which can relatively easily be obtained by making an effort to do some honest hard work (i.e. get a damn job) or by not buying the latest fashionable clothes, self-destructive cigarettes and alcohol or drugs then the information can be obtained from FIGU, Steelmark and TheyFly to name 3 sources.

What is your opinion regarding publishing the out of print books by Wendelle Stevens on my website in Wiki-format?

I am aware that FIGU do not approve them since there are "errors" and omissions. I'm not entirely sure about the legal issues surrounding copying those out of print books and making them available free of charge, are you?

I think that as long as the necessary "inaccuracy" disclaimer is present it will be fine to copy them and make them available. But I think that Wendelle and Michael Horn may disagree with that opinion since they have copies of some of the out of print books for sale still.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the webpage at http://www.galactic-server.com/rune/stewens.html displaying an accurate copy of the book UFO - Contact from the Pleiades by Wendelle Stevens, anyone, please? I would like to know so that I can use it a valid source for http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Thanks
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Fisher
Member

Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone,

I would just like to take an opportunity to say a sincere thank you to all the people who take the time to make translations available in English. This obviously includes Vivienne and Dyson, Clemmm.googlepages (don't know your real name), and also James Moore with the wiki site. And of course Figu itself.

There are arguments on both sides of the "spoon-feeding" debate, and I am definitely in the camp that believes we should all learn German, but I must say that if it were not for the efforts of these people the mission would surely suffer.

It is because the material is available in English that I was able to study to the point where I could truly appreciate the need for learning German, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Thank you, Salome.
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 200
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 03:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Fisher,

Whats the url for the Clemmm's google page?

Salome
David
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1436
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://clemmm.googlepages.com/
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Fisher! I appreciate it.

So can any native-German reader contest to the validity of Clemmm's translations, please? I haven't seen any negative discussion regarding them so far...

Thanks

James
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 466
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems to me that the Clemmm page is done as a service rather than as a discussion item. In addition the pages show the original German if I remember correctly and thus no contesting is required...
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 201
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 03:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Scott.
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Stephan
Moderator

Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"On February 5, 2008 BEAM (‹Billy› Eduard Albert Meier) finished his largest and most important work after only 5 months and 16 days (171 days). This book, «Kelch der Wahrheit» (Chalice of Truth), which will survive the coming ages, live on forever and find its way far out into the Universe, must also find a fast and efficient dissemination here on our Earth, so it can be effective and reveal its value to the people who come in contact with it."

http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/aktuelles/appeal-for-donations
Salome,
Stephan
-------------------
http://www.figu.org
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 205
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 02:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Stephan and FIGU forum members,

It's wonderfull that Billy has finished the 'Kelch der Wahrheit,' and I will definatly try to make some donations. But what is the book about? Is it all about the spiritual teachings?, the prophets of old times?

Salome
David

What makes the 'Kelch der Wahrheit' (Chalice of Truth) more important then the OM book.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

It is the book of all the prophets. It includes the expressions and words used by earlier prophets with text from Billy during our current times.

Scott
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Syn
Member

Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

where would i be able to get this book and how much would it cost..
They must find it difficult...Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then the truth as the authority

-Gerald Massey
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Mehraein62
Member

Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

> [Greeting and Thanks to Billy for such a great work, I heard already and = i > was waiting for hear more about it. Unfortunately I,m not passive member = yet > , but I will pay my share with full proud and respect (although it would > maybe nothing much as a drop) and I also try to buy the Book even in > German or English ...but I wonder if Plerjans couldent push the project a > little more somehow ..that the book be ready in English as soon as possib= le > if it is so urgently and time is flying fast?! ]
Salome
M45
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 322
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Dave,

I responded to your post above no. 205 regarding the book “Kelch det Wahrheit” in Discussionboard of FIGU » Books and Booklets Area » German Books and Booklets

http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/2200/8832.html?1207574954

Salome, Badr
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 03:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Contact Report 238, translated by gaiaguys, the Earth's gases formed 646,000,000,000 years ago. These gases would later become solid etc.

In Christian Krukowski's video presentation on the history of the Earth that came with The Silent Revolution of Truth DVD, there was 646,000,000,000,000 written on a white board.

Which is true and thus what is the correct interpretation of the German word Milliarden?

Thanks
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 191
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milliarden = billion

James, I had a look on the dvd for the figure of 640 trillion as you wrote in your post, and could not spot it.

Robjna
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Mqhassan
Member

Post Number: 50
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Indi, Robjna,

It is 646 Billion years,with nine zero's NOT 12 zero's.

The German naming for the numbers are shown below. Here we are talking of the English Billion which is in German Milliard

Million 10^6
Milliard 10^9
Billion 10^12
Billiarde 10^15
Trillion 10^18
Trilliarde 10^21

Salome
Mohammed
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 192
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mohammed -- In this instance I don't think there is a need to add more complexity to an already for some, confusing translation issue of words used by Billy in his contact notes and books.

My post above was ONLY a response to James' post where he said he saw 646 trillion (he wrote 12 zeros) written on a whiteboard in the dvd. As I said in my post, I did not see that in the dvd.

When Billy uses the word 'Milliard' in his writings, he means when translated into English, 'Billion'. That is enough to know for this particular point being raised.

However, sometimes Billy changes this eg., in Existentes....... the book, he at one point puts (1 Lichtjahr = 9,5 Billionen Kilometer) so, you can see that here he has used the word Billionen where he means Billion in English.

But also, Mohammed, in line with what you have offered from the dictionary, there is a passage here from Genesis where Billy uses a few of those:

48. Um sich im Laufe von sieben mal sieben Gesamt-Grossperioden, die in der letzten Phase einer Zeitdauer von 36 593 544 960 000 000 000 Jahren entspricht (36 Trillionen, 593 Billiarden, 544 Billionen und 960 Milliarden), selbst zur Urflamme/Urschöpfung zu evolutionieren = Total-Wach-Zeit: 42 692 417 280 000 000 000 Jahre, = Total-Schlummer-Zeit = do. Wach-Zeit. Total-Zeit = 85 384 834 560 000 000 000 Jahre:



So, your list will be useful for those trying to translate passages like that who don't have a dictionary.

One must use logic when reading material in other languages, and realise that sometimes 'Englishisms' (my term) creep into other languages -- which could cause confusion if one was not 'flexible' and able to place things in context.

The information about the time frames of 646 billion years, 46 billion years, 5 billion years, 40 trillion years, 39 trillion years plus the many other specific amounts, are well documented in more than one place within the writings.

When Christian K. spoke on the DVD, he may have made a slight error and defined 46 billion the way 646 billion is mentioned in the writings -- but that is not an issue if one has read as I said, the many repeatedly same sources of these figures.
People do make mistakes -- and when they do, all one has to do is check against the source, and make the correction oneself. It is no big deal.

The report in Contact 238 is just a repeat of what is mentioned in the early contacts.
If people want to find places it is mentioned just do a search in David Chances list for 646 and you will find the instances in the contact notes this figure is mentioned.
It is also mentioned in various Bulletins, as well as the book Existentes, maybe Genesis, etc....


Now folks if you are not more confused now than you were before, then.............

Some people are going to want to place Billy's info on dates into maps and charts etc.... and that is fine, I have done things like that myself at times, when trying to work out time lines of things, but at the end of the day, what is more important in my opinion, is to get a grasp of the teachings that contribute to personal evolution of the spirit rather focusing too much on details that we are not able with our present day science to verify. There are inconsistencies with figures in various sources, and it is not worth tearing one's hair out over them.

It is all very interesting, and i still enjoy reading it all, and contemplating it, but I don't think it is too useful to spend more time trying to work these kinds of things out at the expense of time spent putting the natural/creational laws into play.

Robjna
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 48
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well thanks guys, I've corrected the meaning of billion in an article here in case you were wondering why I wanted to know.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Indi,
In post 192 you write "However, sometimes Billy changes this eg., in Existentes....... the book, he at one point puts (1 Lichtjahr = 9,5 Billionen Kilometer) so, you can see that here he has used the word Billionen where he means Billion in English."
I am sure that Billy would be consistent-and he is!
Light at 3x10^8 m/s in 1 year (60x60x24x365=3.15x10^7s)travels 9.5x10^12 km. That is 9.5 trillion km(English) or 9.5 Billion km (German-singular;German Billionen-plural).
`Stimme der Wassermannzeit` No.6 has a useful article by Guido Moosbrugger regarding numbers (see p.3)and is available from the FIGU shop-it is in German.
Regards, Charles.
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Indi
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Post Number: 193
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you're right Charles -- as I said, people make mistakes -- and I got that quickly off the net!

Re Billy and consistency, well, I am sure you will find that there are some inconsistencies -- maybe not in this case above, but there are -- but that is human.

I will check out that article by Guido -- there was another I was looking for by him -- a booklet ‘Ueberdenkenswerte Vortraege’. Anyone have it?

Robjna
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indi,

Some of the 'inconsistencies' are just misinterpretations or 'not reading between the lines'.

Billy doesn't want spoon-fed followers, among other things.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Kiwiseeker
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Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indi,
Yes there are inconsistencies, and some I believe have come from the Plejaren. As I work my way through the contact books, I am finding variations in data. Therefore I have already contacted FIGU Switzerland and I have suggested that at their website there should be a section listing errors found in the books so that we can correct our copies. If we find errors not listed, then we could email these to FIGU. My KB1 came with a correction sheet, but I would like to rectify inconsistent statements re Arus `The Barbarian` in particular.
Am I correct for these spellings? Words in error with correction in brackets: niedereren(niederen), Sokkel (Sockel), Geschehisse (Geschehnisse).Also 1)alldem: alledem=all that-is alldem valid, or is it an error?
2)verknipse : knipsen = to snap (snap photographs) Function of ver- ? I had to make up these words-are they correct?: transmissionieren : transmissioning;
evolutionieren : evolutionising
And the meaning of kosmonaler?
Charles.
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Indi
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Post Number: 194
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of the 'inconsistencies' are just misinterpretations or 'not reading between the lines'.

Billy doesn't want spoon-fed followers, among other things.



yes, and no.
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Indi
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Post Number: 195
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those of you who may have difficulty doing translations, I am going to post a rough unofficial translation I did from the latest Sonder-bulletin No. 43, on the topic of Billy's health and his work on the new book the 'Goblet of Truth'.

I am sure there would be more refinement possible with this translation, however, my purpose in posting it was merely to assist those who cannot find the time or inclination at this time to do it for themselves. It may not be completely accurate, but i am sure it reflects the point of the writing enough.

Der vollständige Zusammenbruch von Billys Immunsystem
Von B. Keller




The entire breakdown of Billy‘s immune system

...und dessen wunderbare Wiederherstellung

Der ‹Kelch der Wahrheit›, das Gesamtwerk, das die Aussagen Billys und seiner sechs Propheten-Vorgängerpersönlichkeiten enthält, wurde von ihm im rasanten Tempo von nur gerade viereinhalb Monaten aus den Speicherbänken herausgearbeitet, Der Grund für die vorgezogene Arbeit und die hohe Eile lagen darin, dass Billys Herz ernsthaft angegriffen ist und er sichergehen wollte, das vorgesehene Buch noch vollenden zu können.



... and it's miraculous restoration

The " Goblet of the Truth ›, the complete work which contains the declarations of Billy‘s and his six prophet-predecessor's personalities was brought to completion by him from the storage banks in the very fast time of only 4.5 months. The reason for the early work and the high haste lay in the fact that Billy’s heart is seriously attacked/assailed and he wanted to make sure to still be able to complete the intended book.


Diese für uns nicht nachvollziehbare Leistung, die eigentlich erst in zehn Jahren vorgesehen und für dessen Herstellung ein Zeitraum von mehreren Jahren eingeplant war, forderte einen hohen Tribut. Zuerst aber ein kurzer Auszug aus dem Kontaktgespräch vom Sonntag, dem 3. Februar 2008, mit IHWH Ptaah:

This achievement not comprehensible for us, which was actually scheduled in ten years only, and with a time period of several years for its manufacture/production, demands a high tribute. First however, a short extract from the contact conversation of Sunday 3rd February, 2008, with IHWH Ptaah:

Billy: So wie ich das Ganze einschätze, dürfte ich am Dienstag, also am 5. Februar, das Ende des Buches schreiben, das dann rund 262 A4-Seiten umfasst. Das immer vorausgesetzt, dass in den Speicherbänken nicht nochmals etwas aus dem Hintergrund auftaucht, das meine Annahme zunichte macht.
Die eigentliche alte ‹Lehre der Propheten› resp. der ‹Kelch der Wahrheit› umfasst 14 Abschnitte, wonach meine Pflicht kommt, die weitere 14 Abschnitte umfasst, die ich selbst schreiben musste, und zwar nach bestimmten Themavorgaben, die bereits Nokodemion in den Speicherbänken festgehalten hat.

Der erste Teil der ‹Lehre der Propheten› resp. die ersten Abschnitte 1 bis 14 vom ‹Kelch der Wahrheit› sind von Nokodemion selbst entworfen und von den einzelnen Propheten Henoch, Elia, Jesaja, Jeremia, Jmmanuel und Muhammad je nach ihrer Zeit und gemäss dem jeweiligen Sprachverständnis der Menschen der Erde dargebracht und gelehrt worden,
wonach nun ich gemäss den Themavorgaben in den Speicherbänken durch Nokodemion die nächsten Abschnitte 15 bis 28 selbst schreiben musste, und zwar erstlich im alten Schreibstil und danach in guter heutiger Schriftsprache.



Billy: As I estimate the whole thing, I will be able to finish writing the book, that then includes approximately 262 A4 pages, on Tuesday 5th February. Provided always that in the storage banks, something does not appear again from the background, which ruins my reception.

The actual ancient ‘Teachings of the Prophets’ resp. the ‘Goblet of Truth’ is comprised of 14 sections after which it became my task to cover another 14 sections which I had to write myself, about certain default topics which Nokodemjon already held in the storage banks.


The first part of the 'Teachings of the Prophets' resp. the first sections 1 to 14 of the ‘Goblet of Truth’ were outlined by Nokodemjon himself, and have been offered and have been taught by the individual prophets Henoch, Elia, Isaiah/Jesaja, Jeremia, Jmmanuel and Muhammed according to their time and according to the respective linguistic understanding of the people of the earth, after which I had to write the next sections 15 to 28 in accordance with the default topics by Nokodemjon in the memory/storage banks, firstly in the old writing style and afterwards in today’s appropriate writing/literary language.

Ptaah: Du hast dafür also nur gerade rund viereinhalb Monate benötigt, während wir jedoch mit drei bis vier Jahren rechneten. Eine erstaunliche Leistung, die nur durch deine Unermüdlichkeit und durch deinen Fleiss zustande kommen konnte. Aber bei dir habe ich meinerseits schon oft mit meinem Erstauntsein gerungen und mich gefragt, wie du alles fertig bringst.

Ptaah: You needed only about 4.5 months for it, whilst we counted on nevertheless, from three to four years. An astonishing achievement, which has come about only by your tirelessness and by your diligence. But I personally have struggled often enough with astonishment, and have asked myself how you finish everything.

Billy: Bring mich bitte nicht in Verlegenheit und bedenke, dass ich nur meine Pflicht erfülle und versuche, das Bestmögliche zu tun.

Billy: Please don’t embarrass me, and consider that I fulfil only my duty and attempt to do the best possible.

Ptaah: Versuch, das entspricht wohl nicht dem, was der Wirklichkeit entspricht. Aber mit dir darüber zu rechten, hat wohl keinen Sinn, denn du bleibst sowieso bei deiner Darlegung der Dinge.

Ptaah: An attempt, which probably does not correspond to what corresponds to reality. But to argue with you about it, probably makes no sense, because you remain with your explanation of things anyway.

Billy: Gut gebrüllt, Löwe. Doch bedenke, mein Sohn, wenn ich nicht ständig versuchen würde, meine Pflicht zu erfüllen, dann wäre nie etwas zustande gekommen.

Billy: Well roared, lion. However, consider then my son, if I would not constantly attempt to fulfil my duty/obligation, then something would have never come about.

Ptaah: Ja, aber ich denke eben, dass du nicht einfach versuchst deine Pflicht zu tun, sondern dass du sie sehr bewusst erfüllst – lieber Papa … (Ist der Humor der beiden ehrwürdigen Herren nicht einfach goldig?)

Ptaah: Yes, but I think that you don’t just simply attempt to do your duty, but that you fulfil it very consciously – dear papa. (Is not the humour of both venerable men not simply lovely?)

Am 10. Februar 2008, eine knappe Woche nachdem der letzte Buchstabe zu Papier gebracht war, erkrankte Billy. Vorerst dachte man an eine schwere Grippe, die Zeit dafür war gegeben, denn schliesslich hatte es andere Gruppemitglieder auch erwischt. Doch die ‹Grippe› ging nicht vorbei, Billys Zustand wurde immer besorgniserregender. Das hohe Fieber wollte nicht sinken. Die Symptome manifestierten sich in den oberen und unteren Luftwegen und im Verdauungstrakt, und er lag nur noch bar jeglicher Kraft darnieder. Alle Mittelchen wollten nicht anschlagen und auch der Arzt richtete nichts aus. Als Billy an unserer monatlichen Gruppezusammenkunft nicht anwesend war, wurde Florena hellhörig, da sie unsere Zusammenkunft mitverfolgte.
Sie ging der Sache nach und stellte fest, dass Billys Immunsystem komplett zusammengebrochen war durch die übermenschliche Anstrengung anlässlich der Erstellung des ‹Kelch der Wahrheit›, und sie erkannte, dass er aus eigener Kraft nicht mehr genesen würde.



On the 10th February, 2008, scarcely a week after the last letter was written down, Billy fell ill. For the time being, it was thought of as a serious flu, the duration for it was expected, because in the end other group members also got it. However, the ‘flu’ did not pass, Billy’s condition became ever more worrying. The high fever didn’t want to break. The symptoms manifested themselves in the upper and lower airways and in the digestive tract, and he lay down, devoid of all strength. All cures did not want to hold and also, the doctor fixed nothing. When Billy was not present in our monthly group meeting, Florena took notice, since she keeps track of our meetings. She followed it up and determined that Billys immune system had completely broken down due to the superhuman effort on the occasion of the preparation of the ‘Goblet of Truth’ and she saw that he would not recover any further from his own powers/strength.

Am Montag nach dem ersten Wochenende, in der Nacht vom am 3. auf den 4. März, besuchte sie den Schwerkranken. Sie schloss ihn an ein Gerät der hochentwickelten plejarischen Medizinaltechnik an und stellte sein Immunsystem wieder her. So kam die Genesung innert kurzer Zeit zustande. Am Montagmorgen des 4. März erschien Billy erstmals wieder in der Küche. Zwar noch etwas angeschlagen, jedoch strahlend, und erzählte den Anwesenden was sich zugetragen hatte. In Windeseile verbreitete sich die frohe Kunde in der Gruppe und bei anderen ihm nahestehenden Menschen, und wir alle atmeten erleichtert und glücklich auf. Florena hatte ihm auferlegt, sich noch 3 Tage völlig zu schonen, was er auch befolgte. Er war noch längere Zeit sehr müde und geschwächt, nahm aber nach den eingehaltenen drei Tagen Schonfrist seine Arbeit wieder auf, wenn auch etwas gemässigter als sonst, denn Florena sagte ihm, es würde noch einige Wochen dauern, bis sein Immunsystem wieder völlig intakt sei.
Wenn sich nun jemand wundert, warum diese hochmedizinische ‹Zauberei› nicht auch auf sein Herz angewendet wird, dann liegt der Grund darin, dass unser weiser Freund und Lehrer, der Prophet Billy, sich strikte dagegen verwehrt, Privilegien für sich in Anspruch zu nehmen, die andern Erdenmenschen verwehrt sind. Wir sähen es freilich nur zu gerne, wenn er sich auch in dieser Sache helfen liesse, aber da beissen wir auf Granit und es bleibt uns nichts anderes übrig, als seine Meinung und seinen Willen zu respektieren und zu achten.



On Monday, after the first week-end, in the night at 3 am, on the 4th March, she visited the critically ill patient. She connected him to a sophisticated Plejaren medical device and re-established his immune system again. Thus recovery came about within a short time. On Monday morning of this 4th March, Billy appeared for the first time again in the kitchen. Admittedly still a little bit groggy, however beaming, and told to the persons present what had taken place. With lightening speed, the glad tidings spread in the group and with the other persons close to him, and we all happily drew a deep breath of relief. Florena had imposed upon him to preserve/spare himself completely for another 3 days, which he also obeyed. He was very tired and weakened for a longer time, however he took up his work after the kept three days period of grace, although somewhat more moderately than before, because Florena said to him, it would still take some weeks until his immune system was completely intact again. If someone now is surprised, as to why this high/superior medical ‘magic’ is also not applied to his heart, then the reason lies in the fact that our wise friend and teacher, the prophet Billy, is strictly against taking up privileges for himself, that other earth people are denied. We admittedly would see it only gladly, if he could also be helped in this matter, but there we bite on granite and nothing else remains for us but to respect and heed his opinion and his will.

---------------------------


PS. I have never done this formatting before, and it is rather time consuming and fraught with dangers of making lots of mistakes -- so..... :-)


in peace

Robjna
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1459
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Robjna,

Thanks very much for this, moments before I saw this message, I had run the same article through the online translator, but yours is considerably cleaned up :-)

Scott
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 274
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, thanks for sharing that with us, Robjna!
Nicely done! And timely.

Kind regards,
Bob
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Behzad
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Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Robjna,

Many thanks for the comment, from all of us (who) that dosent know yet German, and oblige to cary this painful reality.

I hope Billy be healthy all the time and we can have access to the English version of the Last Book as soon as possible.

Scott

Sorry , can you advice me to any good on line translator that could give the best meaning of German texts, if not mind?

thanks
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 196
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to let everyone know that my post #195 above had a few things that needed editing, which I have done now.

I forgot to put the author's name and changed a few errors etc.... there may be still more, but it will be fine as it is for now.

To all those thankyou's, it was a pleasure. And Scott, I am glad you had not spent too much time on it before seeing mine.

Robjna
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 01:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robjna, it was very illuminating.

Salome
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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The_original_dave
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Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 04:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robjna, it is great that you took the time to translate an article, regarding Billy's health.

Does anyone on this forum know, what Billy's heart has been diagnosed with? Could his condition possibly be life threatening?

Salome
David
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Adityasonakia
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Post Number: 204
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Robjna,

Thank you so much for bringing that to us. :-) :D

Salome
Aditya
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Corey
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Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robjna thank you.

the fact that Billy is strictly against taking privalges other Earth people are denied speaks volumes in itself. We, the people of Earth could not have a better Prophet then Billy, and this is going to be some book to say the very least....

Corey
Das innere des menschen ist der Boden, die Welt ist das Samenkorn.
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Incredible
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Post Number: 145
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Million 10^6
Milliard 10^9
Billion 10^12
Billiarde 10^15
Trillion 10^18
Trilliarde 10^21

Hehehe...

I don't burn myself my head with those verbs. I prefer to say 10^3...10^6 and so on...
"we born to die and we die to born"

"Dont take the life seriously, after all you wont go out alive from her"
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 277
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Behzad (Scott): "Sorry, can you advice me to any good on line translator that could give the best meaning of German texts, if not mind?"

Hi, Scott. You will find oftentimes if no one replies immediately to your question, the answer can already be found elsewhere by searching in the forum's archives. In this case, the subject of online translators has been discussed many times and if you go back and look at the past posts in this section, "Translations" you will find many people have posted their suggestions based on personal experience. It is encouraged to gather information in this manner first, rather than posting the same information over and over again. If you have done so and still have further questions, there are many here who will gladly try to answer them if they can.

Kind regards
Bob
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Behzad
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Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phi_spiral

Thank you friend, My name is Behzad and I have addressed Scott for the said question above. and glad that U gave me the point. thanks again
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 278
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 05:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Behzad

Thanks for the name clarification. I should mention also there is some helpful information about translators to be found in the section, "Learning German".

Regards
Bob
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Fainas
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone,

Good translators are:

http://world.altavista.com/
http://www.google.com/translate_t

I personally find altavista translator to be better, but your mileage may vary, of course.

I'd like to suggest to add these tools to the www.futureofmankind.co.uk website external links section.
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice suggestion Fainas. I seem no reason why I should not add them to the Meier Wiki. It has been done. I've also ensured that people know that its ok to use this for personal translations to get the gist of whats been written in German.

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/index.php?title=Main_Page#Translation_Tools
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 765
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all!

Cheers!

Dyson & Vivienne

(Special Bulletin No. 43, May 2008)(Authorised unofficial translation by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine, April 26th, 2008)

http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/periodika/sonder-bulletin/2008/nr-43/zusammenbruch-von-billys-immunsystem
Der vollständige Zusammenbruch von Billys Immunsystem
The complete breakdown of Billy's immune system
...und dessen wunderbare Wiederherstellung
...and its wonderful recovery
Der , das Gesamtwerk, das die Aussagen Billys und seiner sechs Propheten-Vorgängerpersönlichkeiten enthält, wurde von ihm im rasanten Tempo von nur gerade viereinhalb Monaten aus den Speicherbänken herausgearbeitet.
The "Chalice of Truth", the total work which includes the statements of Billy and his six preceding prophet personalities was processed out of the storage banks by him at a break-neck speed of only just four and a half months.
Der Grund für die vorgezogene Arbeit und die hohe Eile lagen darin, dass Billys Herz ernsthaft angegriffen ist und er sichergehen wollte, das vorgesehene Buch noch vollenden zu können.
The reason for expediting the work and the great haste lay in the fact that Billy's heart is seriously weakened and he wanted to be certain that he could still complete the foreseen book.
Diese für uns nicht nachvollziehbare Leistung, die eigentlich erst in zehn Jahren vorgesehen und für dessen Herstellung ein Zeitraum von mehreren Jahren eingeplant war, forderte einen hohen Tribut.
This accomplishment which, for us, is incomprehensible, which was essentialy only planned for ten years from now and for which a production time-frame of several years was planned, demanded a high tribute.
Zuerst aber ein kurzer Auszug aus dem Kontaktgespräch vom Sonntag, dem 3. Februar 2008, mit IHWH Ptaah:
But first, a short extract from the contact conversation of Sunday, the 3rd of February 2008, with IHWH Ptaah:

Billy So wie ich das Ganze einschätze, dürfte ich am Dienstag, also am 5. Februar, das Ende des Buches schreiben, das dann rund 262 A4-Seiten umfasst.
Billy So, in my appraisal of the whole matter, I will be able to write the end of the book, which now extends to around 262 A4 pages, on Tuesday, therefore on the 5th of February.
Das immer vorausgesetzt, dass in den Speicherbänken nicht nochmals etwas aus dem Hintergrund auftaucht, das meine Annahme zunichte macht.
That is always provided that nothing further emerges from the background of the storage banks which invalidates my assumption.
Die eigentliche alte resp. der umfasst 14 Abschnitte, wonach meine Pflicht kommt, die weitere 14 Abschnitte umfasst, die ich selbst schreiben musste, und zwar nach bestimmten Themavorgaben, die bereits Nokodemion in den Speicherbänken festgehalten hat.
The actual old "Teaching of the Prophets", respectively, the "Chalice of Truth" comprises fourteen sections after which my duty comes which extends to a further fourteen sections which I myself must write and, indeed, according to certain thematic conditions which Nokodemion had already established in the storage banks.
Der erste Teil der resp. die ersten Abschnitte 1 bis 14 vom sind von Nokodemion selbst entworfen und von den einzelnen Propheten Henoch, Elia, Jesaja, Jeremia, Jmmanuel und Muhammad je nach ihrer Zeit und gemäss dem jeweiligen Sprachverständnis der Menschen der Erde dargebracht und gelehrt worden, wonach nun ich gemäss den Themavorgaben in den Speicherbänken durch Nokodemion die nächsten Abschnitte 15 bis 28 selbst schreiben musste, und zwar erstlich im alten Schreibstil und danach in guter heutiger Schriftsprache.
The first part of the "Teaching of the Prophets", respectively, the first sections, one to fourteen, from the "Chalice of Truth", is drafted by Nokodemion himself and by the individual prophets Henoch, Eliah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jmmanuel and Mohammed - always delivered and taught according to their time and the relevant comprehension of the language of the humans of the Earth - after which I myself now had to write the next fifteen to twenty-eight excerpts, and indeed firstly in the old writing style and afterwards in good, current, written language, according to the thematic conditions established by Nokodemion in the storage banks.
Ptaah Du hast dafür also nur gerade rund viereinhalb Monate benötigt, während wir jedoch mit drei bis vier Jahren rechneten.
Ptaah You have therefore required only just around four and a half months for that while we, however, reckoned on three to four years.
Eine erstaunliche Leistung, die nur durch deine Unermüdlichkeit und durch deinen Fleiss zustande kommen konnte.
An astonishing achievement, which only could come about as a result of your tirelessness and your industriousness.
Aber bei dir habe ich meinerseits schon oft mit meinem Erstauntsein gerungen und mich gefragt, wie du alles fertig bringst.
But with you I have - from my side - already often struggled with my astonishment and asked myself how you complete everything.
Billy Bring mich bitte nicht in Verlegenheit und bedenke, dass ich nur meine Pflicht erfülle und versuche, das Bestmögliche zu tun.
Billy Please don't embarrass me, and consider that I only fulfill my duty and try to do the best I possibly can.
Ptaah Versuch, das entspricht wohl nicht dem, was der Wirklichkeit entspricht.
Ptaah Try. That does not correspond to what corresponds to reality.
Aber mit dir darüber zu rechten, hat wohl keinen Sinn, denn du bleibst sowieso bei deiner Darlegung der Dinge.
But it probably makes no sense to correct you about that because you remain with your explanation of the matter anyway.
Billy Gut gebrüllt, Löwe. Doch bedenke, mein Sohn, wenn ich nicht ständig versuchen würde, meine Pflicht zu erfüllen, dann wäre nie etwas zustande gekommen.
Billy Well roared, Lion. Yet consider, my son, if I were not to constantly attempt to fulfill my obligation then nothing would ever come about.
Ptaah Ja, aber ich denke eben, dass du nicht einfach versuchst deine Pflicht zu tun, sondern dass du sie sehr bewusst erfüllst - lieber Papa .
Ptaah Yes, but I still think that you do not simply try to do your duty, rather that you very consciously fullfil it - dear Papa...

(Ist der Humor der beiden ehrwürdigen Herren nicht einfach goldig?)
(Isn't the humour of the two honourable gentlemen just so sweet?)
Am 10. Februar 2008, eine knappe Woche nachdem der letzte Buchstabe zu Papier gebracht war, erkrankte Billy.
On the 10th of February 2008, just a week after the last letter was put to paper, Billy became ill.
Vorerst dachte man an eine schwere Grippe, die Zeit dafür war gegeben, denn schliesslich hatte es andere Gruppemitglieder auch erwischt.
At first it was thought to be serious influenza, the time being right for that because the other group members also ultimately got it.
Doch die ging nicht vorbei, Billys Zustand wurde immer besorgniserregender.
Yet the "Flu" did not pass. Billy's state became more and more worrisome.
Das hohe Fieber wollte nicht sinken.
The high fever would not sink.
Die Symptome manifestierten sich in den oberen und unteren Luftwegen und im Verdauungstrakt, und er lag nur noch bar jeglicher Kraft darnieder.
The symptoms mannifested themselves in the upper and lower respiratory system and in the digestive tract, and he lay there with almost no strength.
Alle Mittelchen wollten nicht anschlagen und auch der Arzt richtete nichts aus.
None of the minor treatments worked and the doctor could not help either.
Als Billy an unserer monatlichen Gruppezusammenkunft nicht anwesend war, wurde Florena hellhörig, da sie unsere Zusammenkunft mitverfolgte.
As Billy was not present at our monthly group meeting Florena listened keenly as she followed our meeting.

Sie ging der Sache nach und stellte fest, dass Billys Immunsystem komplett zusammengebrochen war durch die übermenschliche Anstrengung anlässlich der Erstellung des , und sie erkannte, dass er aus eigener Kraft nicht mehr genesen würde.
She persued the matter and established that Billy's immune system was completely broken down as a result of the superhuman effort due to the production of the "Chalice of Truth", and she recognised that he would not recover anymore through his own strength.
Am Montag nach dem ersten Wochenende, in der Nacht vom am 3. auf den 4. März, besuchte sie den Schwerkranken.
On Monday, after the first weekend, in the night from the 3rd to the 4th of March, she visited the seriously ill man.
Sie schloss ihn an ein Gerät der hochentwickelten plejarischen Medizinaltechnik an und stellte sein Immunsystem wieder her.
She attached a highly developed, Plejaren, technological, medical device to him and repaired his immune system.
So kam die Genesung innert kurzer Zeit zustande.
So the recovery came about within a short period of time.
Am Montagmorgen des 4. März erschien Billy erstmals wieder in der Küche.
On Monday morning, the 4th of March, Billy appeared in the kitchen again for the first time.
Zwar noch etwas angeschlagen, jedoch strahlend, und erzählte den Anwesenden was sich zugetragen hatte.
He was, indeed, still not completely recovered, however he was beaming and he told those present what had taken place.
In Windeseile verbreitete sich die frohe Kunde in der Gruppe und bei anderen ihm nahestehenden Menschen, und wir alle atmeten erleichtert und glücklich auf.
The joyous news spread very quickly in the group and with others close to him, and we all exhaled with relief and happiness.
Florena hatte ihm auferlegt, sich noch 3 Tage völlig zu schonen, was er auch befolgte.
Florena had ordered him to rest completely for three days which he also did.
Er war noch längere Zeit sehr müde und geschwächt, nahm aber nach den eingehaltenen drei Tagen Schonfrist seine Arbeit wieder auf, wenn auch etwas gemässigter als sonst, denn Florena sagte ihm, es würde noch einige Wochen dauern, bis sein Immunsystem wieder völlig intakt sei.
He was still tired and weakened for a long time but he took up his work again after the observed three day period even if somewhat more moderately that usual, because Florena told him it would still take some weeks until his immune system was completely intact again.
Wenn sich nun jemand wundert, warum diese hochmedizinische nicht auch auf sein Herz angewendet wird, dann liegt der Grund darin, dass unser weiser Freund und Lehrer, der Prophet Billy, sich strikte dagegen verwehrt, Privilegien für sich in Anspruch zu nehmen, die andern Erdenmenschen verwehrt sind.
If someone now wonders why this advanced medical "magic" is not employed on his heart, then the reason is that our wise friend and teacher, the prophet Billy, strictly denies himself privileges which are denied to other Earth humans.
Wir sähen es freilich nur zu gerne, wenn er sich auch in dieser Sache helfen liesse, aber da beissen wir auf Granit und es bleibt uns nichts anderes übrig, als seine Meinung und seinen Willen zu respektieren und zu achten.
We would be all too happy for him to allow himself to be helped also in this situation but we run into a brick wall with this and there remains nothing else for us to do than respect and pay attention to his opinion and will.
Brigitt Keller, Schweiz
Brigitt Keller, Switzerland

(Special Bulletin No. 43, May 2008)
This is an authorised, unofficial translation by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine, April 28th, 2008

http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/periodika/sonder-bulletin/2008/nr-43/leserfrage
Leserfrage
Reader question
In einem Ihrer Bulletins habe ich einiges gelesen über den Dalai Lama, der neuerdings wieder von sich reden macht im Zusammenhang mit Tibet und den dortigen Unruhen und dem harten Eingreifen der Chinesen.
In one of your bulletins I read something about the Dalai Lama who has recently drawn attention to himself again in connection with Tibet and the unrest there and the harsh intervention of the Chinese.
Wie die Chinesen sagen, so denke ich auch, dass der Dalai Lama der eigentliche Drahtzieher der tibetischen Unruhen ist.
As the Chinese say, I also think that the Dalai Lama is the actual string-puller behind the Tibetan unrest.
Liege ich damit richtig und haben Sie nähere Informationen darüber?
Am I correct with that, and do you have more detailed information about it?
K. Tobler, Schweiz
K.Tobler, Switzerland

Antwort:
Auch hierzu möchte ich Ihnen als Antwort nichts Neues formulieren, sondern einen Teil des Kontaktgespräches zwischen Ptaah und mir wiedergeben, das auf unsere Unterhaltung vom 7. März 2008 zurückführt.
Answer:
Also in relation to this I do not want to formulate anything new as an answer for you, rather I want to again provide a part of the contact dialogue between Ptaah and me which leads back to our conversation of the 7th of March, 2008.
Billy
Billy

Ptaah . Tibet, und zwar speziell Lhasa, wird von grossen politischen und religiösen Unruhen durch die Bevölkerung heimgesucht, die gegen China gerichtet sind, wobei auch die zahlreichen Mönche kräftig mitmischen und damit unter Beweis stellen, dass sie so friedlich nicht sind, wie sie vorgeben zu sein.
Ptaah ... Tibet, and indeed especially Lhasa, is afflicted by great political and religious unrest caused by the population, which is aligned against China, whereby also the numerous monks are strongly involved and thereby prove that they are not as peaceful as they pretend to be.
Als Grund für die blutigen und zerstörerischen Unruhen werden die bevorstehenden olympischen Spiele genommen, die ein willkommenes Mittel sind, um die Welt gegen China aufzuhetzen, das natürlich hart und unbarmherzig zurückschlägt, was eine grössere Anzahl Menschenleben kosten wird.
The impending Olympic games are taken as the reason for the bloody and destructive unrest, as the Olympic games are a welcome means of inciting the world against China which naturally strikes back severely and mercilessly, which will cost a greater number of human lives.
Der Drahtzieher resp. Urheber dafür ist der Dalai Lama, der in seiner Dummheit untergründig politisch und herrschsüchtig werkelt und dadurch die Unruhen auslöst, wobei er, wie es für einen Wolf im Schafspelz üblich ist, alles derart handhabt, dass ihm nichts nachzuweisen ist.
The string-puller, respectively, the instigator of that, is the Dalai Lama, who, in his stupidity, is at work behind the scenes, politically, and hungry for power, and thereby causes unrest, whereby, as is usual for a wolf in sheep's clothing, he handles everything such that nothing can be proven against him.
Dummheit spreche ich dem Dalai Lama deshalb zu, weil er das, was er hinterhältig anzettelt, nicht beurteilen, nicht überblicken und auch die Folgen nicht absehen kann.
I therefore attribute stupidity to the Dalai Lama because he cannot judge, survey, nor even foresee the results of what he underhandedly plots.
Demzufolge treibt er verantwortungslos sein hinterhältiges Werk derart - so schlau ist er wieder -, dass er seine Anhänger und speziellen Helfer und Boten mit seinen Aufhetzereien nur mündlich bearbeitet und nichts Schriftliches macht, so ihm auch nichts nachgewiesen werden kann.
As a result of that, he irresponsibly carries on his underhanded work such - again he is so smart - that he only works verbally on his followers and special helpers and with his incitements, and writes nothing down, also so nothing can be proven against him.
Durch seine Politik als Führer der Exilregierung und geistliches Oberhaupt hat er grossen Einfluss und grosse Macht über seine Gläubigen, die ihn als Gottheit verehren, folglich er seine Anhänger nach seinen Plänen und nach seinem Willen lenken kann, ohne dass diese seine hinterlistigen Ziele erkennen, die darin beruhen, unangefochtener politischer und geistlicher Herrscher über Tibet zu werden und dieses von China als unabhängig abzuspalten.
Through his politics as leader of the government in exile and as spiritual head, he has great influence and great power over his believers who revere him as a deity, consequently he can steer his followers according to his plans and according to his will without them recognising his treacherous goals which are based on being the undisputed political and spiritual ruler over Tibet and to split Tibet off from China, to be independent.
Dass er dabei ein politisches Machtgebaren an den Tag legt, wird von den DalaiLama-Befürwortern geflissentlich übersehen, wie auch, dass er seine Anhänger mit seinem infamen Tun in Not und Elend und gar vielfach in den Tod treibt, was ihm völlig egal und in sein Tun berechnend einbezogen ist.
That he thereby displays a bearing of political power is studiously overlooked by the supporters of the Dalai Lama, as it also is that he drives his followers into need and misery and even often to death with his infamous deeds, which makes no difference at all to him and is calculatingly included in his actions.
Offiziell heuchelt er und ruft zur Mässigung und zum Frieden auf, während er aber hinterlistig und untergründig seine Anhänger und Gläubigen zum Widerstand gegen China und zum Aufstand und zu Unruhen aufhetzt.
Officially he is hypocritical and calls for moderation and peace while he, however, treacherously and covertly, incites his followers and believers to resistance against China and to rising up and to unrest.
Das tut er in einer Art und Weise, die er in seiner Dummheit selbst nicht als das erkennt, was es wirklich ist, nämlich dass er ein religiöser und politischer Aufrührer ist, der sein gläubiges Volk mit seinem Tun und Gehabe irremacht und in Not bringt sowie ins Elend und zur anhaltenden Feindschaft wider China führt.
He does that in a manner which he himself, in his stupidity, does not recognise for what it really is, namely that he is a religious and political rabble-rouser who leads his devout people astray with his acts and behaviour and brings them into need, as well as into misery, and leads them into lasting animosity against China.
Das gelingt ihm sehr einfach, weil China in aller Welt keinen guten Ruf geniesst und viele unmenschliche und menschenverachtende Machenschaften betreibt.
He succeeds very simply with that because China does not enjoy a good reputation anywhere in the world and carries out many inhumane and human-disdaining machinations.
Und der Dalai Lama vermag in seiner Dummheit und in seinem Machstreben nicht abzuschätzen, was er bei seinen Gläubigen anrichtet in bezug darauf, was ihnen an Not, Elend und Schaden widerfährt durch Chinas brutale und mörderische Massnahmen, denn die chinesischen Machthaber sind nicht zimperlich und lassen böse und ausgeartete Gewalt anwenden, wie das in China seit alters her üblich ist.
And in his stupidity, and in his striving for power, the Dalai Lama is not able to estimate what he causes with his believers in regard to what they experience in terms of need, misery and damage as a result of China's brutal and murderous measures, because the Chinese rulers are not squeamish and allow evil and degenerated violence to be applied, as has been usual in China since ancient times.
Wie zu alten Zeiten für die chinesischen Machthaber ein Menschenleben keinerlei Bedeutung hatte - ausser ihr eigenes -, so ist es auch noch heute, folgedessen sie brutal, bedenkenlos und gewissen- sowie verantwortungslos morden lassen und sich so in ihren Ämtern behaupten.
As in ancient times, for the Chinese rulers, a human life had no significance at all - aside from their own -, as it is still so today, as a result of which they brutally, inconsiderately, devoid of conscience, and irresponsibly, allow murder, and maintain this in their official positions.
Billy Das ist mir ebenso bekannt wie seine Frauenfeindlichkeit, die er aber gut zu verbergen weiss.
Billy That is just as familiar to me as his animosity towards women which he, however, knows how to conceal well.
Also gibt es in Tibet Stunk, und wie du sagst, besonders in der Hauptstadt Lhasa.
So, there is a stink in Tibet and, as you say, especially in the capital city of Lhasa.
Zwar halte ich von den regierungsamtlichen Zwangsmethoden und vom mörderischen Vorgehen der chinesischen Regierung gegen Regimefeindliche und Andersdenkende sowie Kriminelle usw. rein gar nichts, denn gesamthaft ist es menschenverachtend und menschenunwürdig.
In fact I hold a very low opinion of the official governmental force-applying methods and the Chinese government's murderous approach against those who have animosity towards the regime and those who think differently, as well as against criminals, and so forth, because it is entirely despising of humans and unworthy of humans.
Das jedoch, was der Dalai Lama mit dem gläubigen Volk tut, fällt in den gleichen Rahmen, denn durch seine falschen religiös-politischen und welt-politischen Machenschaften lässt er die Gläubigen bei den Chinesen ins offene Messer rennen.
However, that which the Dalai Lama does with the faithful people falls into the same framework because, through his wrong religious-political and world-political machinations, he lets the believers run into the open knife of the Chinese.
Lauthals redet er von Frieden, während er hinterlistig die Gläubigen dazu verführt, sich China zu widersetzen, anstatt dass er sich ehrlich darum bemüht, mit China einen Kompromiss zu schliessen, indem er seine selbstherrlichen und ungerechtfertigten Ansprüche dessen aufgibt, der politische Machthaber Tibets und dessen Bevölkerung zu sein.
He talks loudly of peace while he treacherously seduces the believers into opposing China instead of him honestly making the effort to agree to a compromise with China in which he gives up his tyrannical and unjustifiable claims to be the political ruler of Tibet and its population.
Er sollte sich damit begnügen, das geistliche Oberhaupt der ihm gläubigen Tibeter zu sein, die ihn wie einen Gott anhimmeln und glauben, dass die Sonne nicht mehr scheinen werde, wenn er als Führer der politisch-religiösen Exilregierung zurücktrete, wie mir das kürzlich ein Tibeter gesagt hat, mit dem ich mich im Wartesaal beim Arzt unterhalten habe.
He should be satisfied with being the spiritual head of the Tibetans who believe in him, who idolise him as a god and believe that the sun will no longer shine if he stepped away as leader of the political-religious government in exile, as was recently said to me by a Tibetan with whom I conversed in the doctor's waiting room.
Diese Menschen sind durch den Dalai Lama und seine falschen Reden derart irregeführt, dass sie nicht begreifen können, was wirklich los ist und er der Drahtzieher dessen ist, dass es seit langem zwischen Tibet und China politisch brennt, Mord und Totschlag sowie Aufstände geschehen, Zerstörungen stattfinden, Menschenblut fliesst und Terror herrscht, und zwar beidseitig, so also sowohl durch die Chinesen, wie auch durch die Tibeter selbst, wobei auch die angeblich friedvollen Mönche mitmischen.
These humans are so misled by the Dalai Lama and his false talk that they cannot grasp what is really going on and that he is the string puller in this situation, where, for a long time, a political fire has burnt between Tibet and China, murder and killing as well as uprisings occur, destruction comes about, human blood flows and terror rules and, indeed, from both sides, so, therefore, from the Chinese side as well as through the Tibetans themselves, whereby also the allegedly peaceful monks get involved.
Würde der Dalai Lama seine Pflicht als geistliches Oberhaupt tun, dann würde er sich nicht mit Politik befassen und keine Ambitionen als politischer Führer haben.
Were the Dalai Lama to do his duty as spiritual head then he would not occupy himself with politics and would have no ambitions as a political leader.
Wäre er der, als den er sich ausgibt, dann würde er nach wahrer Liebe und nach wahrem Frieden streben und darum bemüht sein, eine friedliche Lösung mit China zu suchen, indem er sich eben selbst als politischer Führer zurückzieht und darauf verzichtet, irgendwie noch politisch tätig zu sein.
Were he that which he portrays himself to be, then he would strive for true love and for true peace and make the effort to seek a peaceful solution with China, in that he himself even withdraws as political leader and renounces being still somehow politically active.
Damit würde er auch vielen seiner Gläubigen das Leben retten und ihnen ein besseres Leben schenken, denn durch ein solches Tun würde er das tibetische Volk davor bewahren, sich, wenn sie Unruhen und Aufstände hervorrufen, den mörderischen Machenschaften der chinesischen Machthaber auszusetzen.
Thereby he would also save the lives of many of his believers and give them a better life because, through such an act, he would protect the Tibetan people from exposing themselves to the murderous machinations of the Chinese rulers which occur when the people call for unrest and uprisings.
Zwar würde Tibet dadurch nicht ein eigener Staat, doch würde es zu einem Kompromissfrieden führen, der von Dauer sein könnte, und zwar so lange, bis sich in China die Machthaberverhältnisse derart ändern, dass eines Tages in friedlicher Weise mit verantwortungsvollen und menschlichen Regierenden Chinas über eine Selbständigkeit Tibets verhandelt und diese tatsächlich herbeigeführt werden kann.
It is true that Tibet would thereby not be an independent country, yet it would lead to a compromise peace which could be enduring and, in fact, as long as the behaviour of the rulers changes in China such that one day China, with responsible and humane governors, peacefully negotiates an independent Tibet, and this actually could be brought about.
Doch solange noch ein politisch machtgieriger Dalai Lama das tibetische Volk steuert, der zum notwendigen Kompromiss nicht bereit ist, wird noch viel Unheil über die fehlgeführten Tibeter hereinbrechen.
Yet as long as a political, power-greedy Dalai Lama still steers the Tibetan people, who are not ready for the necessary compromise, much harm will still befall the wrongly-led Tibetans.
Ptaah Das ist leider tatsächlich der Fall, und zwar nicht nur in Lhasa, denn auch Exil-Tibeter werden weltweit demonstrieren und materiellen Schaden anrichten, wofür sie die Folgen tragen müssen, wobei ihr Tun allerdings nicht zu vergleichen ist mit den Gewalttätigkeiten und Zerstörungen, die in Lhasa Wirklichkeit sein werden.
Ptaah That is unfortunately actually the case, and indeed not only in Lhasa, because also exiled Tibetans will demonstrate worldwide and cause material damage, for which they must bear the consequences, whereby, however, their action is not comparable with the acts of violence and destruction which will be the reality in Lhasa.
Auch wird es leider sein, dass die Olympischen Spiele durch die Tibet-Machenschaften der Tibeter und Chinas stark politisch ausgenutzt werden und verschiedenste Staatsmächtige und deren Mitläufer der Welt unvernünftigerweise in blinder Dummheit einen Boykott der Spiele in China fordern und dabei nicht wissen, welchen Schaden sie anrichten.
Also it will unfortunately be that the Olympic games will be strongly, politically exploited through the machinations of the Tibetans and of China. And various of the world's national powerful ones, and their cohorts, will irrationally, and in blind stupidity, demand a boycott of the games in China and thereby not know what damage they cause.
Billy . Und wenn wir schon bei solchen Dingen der Unerfreulichkeit sind, dann möchte ich dich fragen, ob du heute etwas mehr weisst bezüglich der Tibet-China-Sache, womit ich den olympischen Fackellauf meine, der ja durch mehrere Staaten der Welt und sogar auf den Mount Everest führen soll.
Billy ... And if we are already with such unpleasant things, then I want to ask you whether you know something more today in regard to the Tibet-China matter, whereby I mean the Olympic torch relay which is actually supposed to travel through several countries of the world and even to Mount Everest.
Dazu könnte ich mir vorstellen, dass weltweit die Exil-Tibeter und deren sowie des Dalai Lama Anhänger dagegen demonstrieren werden.
In relation to that I could imagine that, worldwide, the exiled Tibetans and their followers, as well as the Dalai Lama's followers, will demonstrate against it.
Ptaah Das entspricht der Tatsächlichkeit, denn durch die falsche Propaganda des Dalai Lama und dessen politische und religiöse Machenschaften werden sehr viele Menschen aufgehetzt und in die Irre geführt in bezug auf seine wirklichen Absichten und der Wirklichkeit der Geschehen in Tibet und deren Zusammenhänge.
Ptaah That corresponds to the facts of the matter because, through the Dalai Lama's false propaganda and his political and religious machinations, very many people will be incited and led into error in regard to his real intentions and the reality of the events in Tibet, and their connections.
So werden sehr viele unbedarfte Irregeführte hinsichtlich der Wirklichkeit der Dinge gegen China und die Olympiade aufgehetzt, wodurch sie zu Krawallen, Olympiaboykottgeschrei, Handgreiflichkeiten, zu sonstiger Gewalt und zu Demonstrationen verleitet werden und den unpolitischen Sinn der Olympiade in den Schmutz treten.
So, very many clueless people, who are misled in regard to the reality of the thing, will be incited against China and the Olympiad, whereby they are induced to riots, screaming for an Olympic boycott, fisticuffs, to other kinds of violence and to demonstrations, and they trample the apolitical spirit of the Olympiad into the dirt.
Also machen alle jene Dummen und Unbedarften, die sich daran beteiligen, ähnlich wie 1980, die Olympiade zur politischen Sache und gefährden damit den friedlichen und völkerverbindenden Sinn und Zweck der Olympischen Spiele, die nichts mit Politik zu tun haben und die in jedem Fall ausgeschlossen bleiben muss.
Therefore all those stupid and clueless ones who take part in that, similar to 1980, make the Olympiad a political matter and thereby endanger the peaceful and peoples-uniting sense and purpose of the Olympic games which have nothing to do with politics and which must remain excluded in every case.
Was also gegen China weltweit demonstriert wird, hat mit den Olympischen Spielen nichts zu tun, folglich diese von den demonstrierenden Machenschaften der ExilTibeter und deren sowie des Dalai Lama Anhänger nicht für politische Zwecke missbraucht werden dürfen.
What is therefore demonstrated against China worldwide has nothing to do with the Olympic games, consequently this must not be misused for political purposes by the demonstration-machinations of the exiled Tibetans and their followers as well as those of the Dalai Lama.
Die Olympiade muss davon unberührt bleiben, denn nur das ist des Rechtens, folglich ein Boykott, Krawalle, Handgreiflichkeiten, Zerstörungen und sonstige Gewalt sowie Demonstrationen aller Art gegen die Spiele und die Teilnahme der Sportler daran widerrechtlich und wider den Olympiasinn sind.
The Olympiad must remained untouched by that because only that is right, consequently a boycott, riots, fisticuffs, destruction and other sorts of force as well as demonstrations of every kind against the games and the participation in them by the athletes are unlawful and against the meaning of the Olympics.
Billy Das sehe ich ebenfalls so.
Billy I likewise see it that way.
Du bringst es auf den Punkt.
You bring it to the point.
Was der Dalai Lama an Machenschaften in bezug auf seine Machtansprüche auf Tibet und dessen angestrebte Unabhängigkeit mit China vom Stapel lässt, ist eine reine politische Angelegenheit und hat nichts mit der Olympiade in China zu tun.
What the Dalai Lama unleashes with his machinations regarding his claims to power over Tibet, and its independence - which is strived for - from China, is a purely political matter and has nothing to do with the Olympiad in China.
Dass er aber trotzdem seine Gläubigen und sonstigen Anhänger hinterlistig gegen China und die Olympiade in politischer Weise aufhetzt, das erkennen diese ganz offenbar ebenso nicht, wie auch nicht alle jene regierungsunfähigen Regierenden, die ihn hochjubeln und als Heiligkeit sehen.
That, in spite of that, he treacherously, politically incites his believers and other followers against China and the Olympiad, is quite manifestly no more recognised by them than it is by all those governors who are incapable of governing who sing his praises and regard him as holy.
Diese Regierenden sind so dumm und dämlich, dass sie glauben, sich in seiner sonnen und damit brillieren zu können, wobei sie nicht merken, dass sie einem Wolf im Schafspelz die Hand reichen, wie du ihn genannt hast.
These governors are so stupid and dimwitted that they believe they can sun themselves in his "spirituality" and thereby shine, whereby they do not notice that they extend a hand to a wolf in sheep's clothing, as you have called him.
Als ist er die Scheinheiligkeit selbst, und was er politisch mit China zu tun hat, ist allein seine Sache, denn er allein ist es unter allen Tibetern, der für Tibet die geistliche und politische Macht beansprucht.
As an "ecclesiastic" he is sanctimoniousness itself and what he has politically to do with China is his matter alone because among all the Tibetans he alone lays claim to the spiritual and political power over Tibet.
Also ist das Ganze von seiner Seite aus nur ein primitiver Machtanspruch, durch den er mit China im Clinch liegt, was wiederum in Tibet böse Gewalt ausübt, wobei die Tibeter, und zwar auch die angeblich friedlichen Mönche, Gegengewalt ausüben.
Therefore the entire matter, from his side, is only a primitive claim for power as a result of which he has locked horns with China which, again, exercises evil violence in Tibet, whereby the Tibetans, and indeed also the allegedly peaceful monks, practise counter-violence.
Diese Gewalt übt auch der Dalai Lama aus, auch wenn er es hinterlistig durch die von ihm irregeführten Gläubigen und sonstigen Anhänger tut, die ihr Blut lassen oder sonstwie drangsaliert oder bestraft werden, während ihm kein Haar gekrümmt wird.
The Dalai Lama also practises this violence even if he does it treacherously through his misled believers and other followers who let their blood flow or in other ways are tormented or punished while not a hair on his head is touched.
Das aber soll nicht davon ablenken, dass auch China, genauso wie der Dalai Lama und die Tibeter, böse Fehler begeht und durch böse Gewalt Angst, Terror, Schrecken und Tod verbreitet, nur dass China es eben offen tut und damit die Welt in Rage gegen sich aufbringt, während der Dalai Lama durch seine fiesen hinterlistigen Machenschaften ungeschoren bleibt, weil ihm offiziell nichts nachgewiesen werden kann, da er öffentlich nur Frieden predigt, im Hintergrund jedoch Irreführung und Gewalt sät.
But that ought not to divert from the fact that China also commits bad mistakes, exactly like the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans, and spreads angst, terror, horror and death through evil violence, only China actually does it openly and thereby brings the world into a rage against it while the Dalai Lama remains unmolested as a result of his nasty, treacherous machinations because nothing can be officially traced back to him since he openly preaches only peace, however, in the background he sows misguidance and violence.
Ptaah Seine Gläubigen und sonstigen Anhänger wollen die wirkliche Wahrheit nicht sehen und nicht kennen.
Ptaah His believers and other followers do not want to see and know the real truth.
Gegensätzlich dazu aber werden die ganzen Übel der chinesischen Machenschaften derart ausgeschlachtet, dass dadurch schlimmer Hass entsteht und mehr zerstört als gut gemacht wird.
In contrast to that, however, the entire evil of the Chinese machinations will be so dissected that worse hate will thereby come about and more will be destroyed than will be made good.
Damit auch China lernen und friedlich werden sowie von seinen Menschenunwürdigkeiten und seiner Gewalt loskommen könnte, dazu wird durch die Krawalle, Demonstrationen und durch die sonstige Gewalt und durch die Zerstörungen jener jede Chance vernichtet, welche sich nur in Hass, Rachsucht und Feindschaft gegen China erheben.
Through the ructions, demonstrations and through the other violence and through the destruction which is only promoted in hate, revenge and animosity against China, any chance will be lost that also China learns and becomes peaceful and could free itself from its actions - which are unworthy of humans - and its violence.
Billy Dabei denke ich auch an die USA, in denen wohl auch Krawalle und Demonstrationen und Olympiaboykottrufe durch Dumme und Unbedarfte sein werden.
Billy Thereby I also think of the USA in which there will probably also be ructions and demonstrations and calls for an Olympic boycott by stupid and clueless people.
Das in einem Land, das selbst genug Dreck am Stecken hat und durch seine Geheimdienste weltweit Schrecken und Tod verbreitet, wie das auch die US-Streitkräfte tun, wobei man nur an den Irak, an Afghanistan und an Guantanamo usw. denke.
That, in a country which itself has no clear conscience and spreads horror and death through its secret services as the US combat forces also do, whereby one only thinks of Iraq, of Afghanistan and of Guantanamo, and so forth.
Doch davon ist von den Chinahassern wohl weltweit nichts zu hören, denn die Schreckensherrschaft der USA ist tabu, weil viele Staaten der Erde von ihnen abhängig und zu feige sind, offen mit der Wahrheit einherzugehen.
Yet there is probably nothing to hear about that from the China-haters worldwide because the USA's reign of terror is taboo because many countries of the Earth are dependent on it and are too cowardly to openly go around with the truth.
Dummheit, Dämlichkeit, Gläubigkeit und Abhängigkeit sowie Feigheit sind leider sehr vielen Menschen eigen und können nicht behoben werden, weil dazu Verstand, Vernunft und Intelligenz fehlen.
Stupidity, dimwittedness, religious faith, and dependency as well as cowardice are unfortunately characteristic of very many humans and cannot be removed because for that there is a lack of understanding, reason and intelligence.
Wenn dereinst auf der Erde Frieden, Freiheit und Harmonie entstehen soll, dann muss ein radikales Umdenken erfolgen, das frei sein muss von Lieblosigkeit, Hass, Rachsucht, Vergeltung, Irreführung, Gläubigkeit, Terror und Gewalt sowie von Machtstreben und Profitsucht usw.
If peace, freedom and harmony are someday supposed to come about on the Earth then a radical rethink must result which must be free of lovelessness, hate, revenge, retribution, wrong-leadership, religious faith, terror and violence, as well as from the striving for power and addiction to profit, and so forth.
Ptaah Da kann ich nur beipflichten.
Ptaah I can only agree with that.

You can read more about what Billy and Ptaah had to say about the Dalai Lama, on November 18th, 2006, here: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/index.php?title=FIGU_Special_Bulletin_32
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 345
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson and Vivienne,

Great to have you both back. Hope everything is better now, and can move on with your valuable lives.

Salome, Badr
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Adityasonakia
Member

Post Number: 207
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson & Vivienne!!!!! Horrrayyy!!! they are back.

Good to have you both back. Yes!!!! Really feels good. :-)

Salome
Aditya
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Anday727
Member

Post Number: 86
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 01:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lieber Dyson,

Vielen Dank mein freund!
Meine besten Wuensche.

Salome,
Dejan
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Alan
Member

Post Number: 199
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 02:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my picture Dyson & Vivienne
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Mehraein62
Member

Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 02:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson and Vivienne,

Horrrayyy!

Salome
Salome
M45
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Phi_spiral
Member

Post Number: 282
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 04:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Dyson and Vivienne!

"...as long as the behaviour of the rulers changes in China such that one day China, with responsible and humane governors, peacefully negotiates an independent Tibet, and this actually could be brought about."

Yes, it would be nice to see the peaceful path win out. Hope all remains well with the both of you!

Kind regards,
Bob
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Mike
Member

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson & Vivienne

Greetings from Ireland, it’s been a while since I posted on the forum. Firstly, a very immense salutation to you both and I am so pleased that you have returned to this forum and I hope you are both very well. Continued gratitude for your time, effort and work in important translations.
I sincerely hope that you could both continue to post important translations and share ideas here when time allows while respecting your own private time for conscious/spiritual development, your work in the translations is much appreciated by me and I am sure by many others.

Glad to hear Billy is over the worst of his illness with thanks to Florena and the help she gave. Be well Billy.

The country where I reside has been through 800 years of conflict, it is only in the last two decades that real progress has been made because people diametrically opposed to each other knew they had to sit at the table together to talk meaningful peace, not only for the short term but for future generations and to help end or at least reduce greatly the hatred, killing, terror and subterfuge that was endemic and affected so many people, there is still a long way to go, lets not dupe ourselves but at least the results of the peaceful dialogue is in the right direction. This gives optimism to me that other major conflicts between peoples will also be worked out in a meaningful and peaceful way.

Salome and goodwill to you both

Mike
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 598
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson & Vivienne

It is so nice to have both of you safely back on

All the best!

Savio
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Baselineplayer
Member

Post Number: 20
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome back Dyson & Vivienne

Please, stay well Billy (with grateful thanks to the "flower-girl", Florena) and take care

Keep up the excellent work and life, all of you

Best wishes from a northern place where the sun soon will shine both day and night (even though it passes below the horizon, it will not be dark as nights)
Med Bästa Hälsningar / Mit Besten Grüssen / With Best Regards

/Baselineplayer
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 370
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Home, Dyson and Vivienne! Oh, thank you very much for your FIGU Bulletin translation.Stay well.
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 628
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome back Dyson & Vivienne , and thanks for posting the translation .

Kind Regards , MC
Mark Campbell
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 599
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 02:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all

I would like to point out that there might be a mistake here:

"Am Montagmorgen des 4. März erschien Billy erstmals wieder in der Küche.

On Monday morning, the 4th of March, Billy appeared in the kitchen again for the first time."

As 4th of March is Tuesday not Monday.

Salome

Savio
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The_original_dave
Member

Post Number: 222
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great to see you back Dyson and Vivienne!
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Lonnie
Member

Post Number: 267
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 04:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dyson and Dear Vivienne,

It's so good to hear from you. Your translations are deeply appreciated by all. Please, keep up the good work.

Salome,
Lonnie Morton
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 366
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best news I've read in a long time!

May peace and well being never leave either of you again.

Welcome home to both Dyson and dear Vivienne.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 59
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes welcome back gaiaguys.

Thank you for the long translation.

I've reformatted it as a Wiki article and it can be found at http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/index.php?title=FIGU_Special_Bulletin_43

Kind Regards
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Marc
Moderator

Post Number: 198
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 05:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All ~

First: Dyson and Vivienne - I'm glad to hear that you're back. I hope you're both well.

I had created a poll in the FIGUtranslation Yahoo Group last weekend (groups.yahoo.com/groups/FIGUtranslation) for all contributors of the Contact Reports project over the last few years. The poll was to determine who would like to use their contributions toward the Kelch der Wahrheit project instead of the Contact Reports.

I was surprised to find that only four respondents had participated out of at least a couple of dozen people who contributed, even though all four had voted "Yes" on using the funds toward that project.

I'm not sure why the low turn-out. I thought it might be related to spam blockers out there but I can't imagine only four received the messages about this.

Regards,
Marc
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1463
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Marc,

If you hadn't said anything about this, I wouldn't have known you had conducted a poll to begin with. I very rarely check this group any longer. Without speaking for anyone else, that is why I missed your poll.

Regards
Scott
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Marc
Moderator

Post Number: 199
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Scott ~

Yeah, I had thought about making an announcement here. But since everyone that's currently a member in the FIGUtranslation group is supposed to receive an e-mail when you run a poll, I didn't see the need to say anything here. One wouldn't have to check in with the group, in this case.

Even though the poll is closed, if there are any opinions one way or the other, I'm listening!

Marc
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 1108
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 04:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson and Vive!

Welcome back!

Glad to hear that you both...are dismissed from your containment. And thus:
Destiny has been Good to you both (and it shall be)...; and let us keep it that way.

Let us all enjoy your excellent translations....


Goede Gezondheid, to you both....

Edward.
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Fisher
Member

Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 05:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome back Dyson and Vivienne,

I'm so glad to see that you guys made it through in one piece.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the work you guys have put in for the mission. You are clearly both dedicated beyond description.

Salome
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 766
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi FIGU friends, (Vivienne here)

Thanks for the friendly words of encouragement.

We’ll be keeping busy studying hard to increase our translation skills as quickly as we can so that we can help with more official FIGU work in the longer term. So we don’t expect to be spending time on this list, apart from passing by occasionally.

I always recommend re-reading what’s already been translated, especially if you’re frustrated by the progress of translations. There is so much there, it’s hard to take it all in on the first, or even second, reading.

Let’s also thank those FIGU people who are busy quietly working hard behind the scenes to make these German language texts available to us in the first place.

Salome,

Vivienne (& Dyson)
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Jamesm
Member

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indeed Vivienne, I want to express my personal thanks to everyone who has contributed in some way or another to the mission. They of course know who they are.

Without all this information from the Plejaren, I would probably still be a believer of several false contactee stories, less certain about the invalidity of religions and certainly living a less worthy life than I am now.

Kind Regards To All

James
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaiaguys,

thank you for passing by i'm fairly new here and I was glad to get a chance to not only see you on here again but personally find out you were both in good health, good spirits, and doing good in your lives, you both were an inspiration to me to begin learning German for myself so I could (slowly) read these works for myself and begin understanding FIGU writings to learn about die Willkür and begin abandoning meinen falschen Religionen beleifs, and begin learning about Kontzentration und ricthige Meditation, shöpferischen Gesetzen und Gebote und andere cool Wirklichkeiten found in the Produktentwicklung von FIGU.

Im just beginning yet thank you,

Gutdünken immer für Sie von mich
Veilen Dank für eure Arbeit als Übersetzung für uns


btw I stumbled across this headline on yahoo when I booted up my computer today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080508/ap_on_re_as/olympic_torch

Salome,
Corey
Das innere des menschen ist der Boden, die Welt ist das Samenkorn.
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 631
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 01:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Vivienne , and Dyson ;

I hope you are both relaxing and enjoying nature , besides your extensive efforts .

Thanks for staying in touch .

Kind Regards , Mark
Mark Campbell
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Forum readers,

I just decided to do a translation of the introduction to Arahat Athersata, since I find the translation on TheyFly.com to be rather inadequate. Some words -must- be invented in the english translation based upon basic linguistic patterns, some words simply have to be discarded (such as the verb "to wit"=wissen), some words cannot be expressed semantically sufficiently unless one uses words which one must expect the average dumbed-down English-speaker does not know. But, thankfully there are dictionaries, and invented words shall be fully explained and kept to a minimum, only when key concepts of the spirit-teachings simply cannot be conveyed using any other words. You shall see an example of this at the conclusion of this short translation, as a footnote.

Arahat Athersata

1. Das irdische Menschengeschlecht ist in ein Stadium einer Zeugenschaft eines gewaltigen kosmischen Umbruches getreten; in ein neues Zeitalter, das sich vor den sehenden Augen denkender Menschen immer klarer und deutlicher abzeichnet.

1. Terrestrial humankind is entered into a state of testament to a forceful, cosmic deluge; he is wandered into a new epoch, which emerges ever more visibly, expressively and pointedly before the viewing eyes of thinking human beings.

2. Nichtsdestoweniger aber liegt das Gros dieser Menschheit im Abgrund der Unwissenheit und Bewusstseinversklavung, so es notwendig geworden ist, den Ursachen ihres Abstieges auf den Grund zu gehen und ihr dies in einer Botschaft darzutun.

2. Nonetheless, the bulk of this humanity lies at the bottom of a benighted chasm, an abyss of nescient ignorance and consciousness-slavery. It is thus become crucial to get to the bottom of the causes of her fall and to evince this to her in message.

3. Gleichbedingt ist es aber auch erforderlich, neue Wege zu weisen, die in eine geistverstehende und bewusstsein- sowie geistharmonierende Zukunft führen.

3. Equally conditioned and corequisite it is, to guide new ways which lead into a ghost-forstanding * and consciousness- as well as ghost-harmonising future.

4. Der Erdenmensch öffne daher seine Augen und Ohren, er reisse seine versklavten Gedanken von allen Irrlehren, Unwahrheiten und von allen Übel; er öffne seine Bewusstseinsinne zur Erkennung der Wahrheit.

4. Terrestrial human shall therefore open his eyes and ears, tear his enthralled thoughts from all delusory doctrines, untruths and wrench them from all evil; he shall open the senses of his consciousness to the recognition of the truth.


* forstand = Verstand ; forlist = Vernunft (vernehmen = literally "perceive", but is taken to mean "to hear closely for something"; list = listen in English). ghost = germanic English word for 'the spirit'; however, spiritus really means "Odem" = life-energy, a product of the ghost, while the ghost itself means "the stimulating, that which strives upward", among other things, which is really what the ghostform is--not merely the spirit-source (Odemquelle), but also the evolutive ghost, a partpiece of the eternal ouroboros of Creation. Note that Geist is also used, although to a lesser degree, incorrectly to mean "spectre, apparition, spook", &c.

Also note that Arahat Athersata himself/themselves does not use standard German terms nor standard German grammar; his/their grammar is more akin to Sanskrit in many ways, which adds another layer of semantic richness to the process of word conjoinment.


Salome,

- Matthew = Mäthju if one is German and would like to spell it phoenetically, with the same numerological value.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Often it is assumed that one should 'sell' the truth in some way or other: that it is wise to adopt the false terminologies of the public, and to carefully avoid triggering those irrational brain-emotional impulses associated with belief and loss of self-control, and that it is better to smoothly convince and persuade than to enlighten and teach. I must disagree with that position, however, since it can only reassure a person of their self-destructive attitudes and incorrect thinking. Pick up a Webster's Third New International Dictionary, as I have, and recognise that over the course of the English-speaking world's development, there have arisen thousands of words which in fact can be made to express many of the concepts in the spirit-teaching/teaching of the ghost, yet many of these words are mindlessly ignored by today's society, which seems only to derive its parlance from whatever happens to be on the lips of pop-cultural icons at the given moment.

There is no good excuse for having a small English vocabulary when it is one's first language. And there is also no good that can come of attempting to dumb down the writings of Billy, Arahat Athersata, Petale, and the Plejaren, etc., simply because one is worried that it will discourage one's audience. The audience has the responsibility to learn. I think, personally, that regardless of the motivation to cultivate one's English, it is quite telling of a person's motivation and interest in the truth that they do not learn the High-German language.

Thus, translations should be directed at getting a person interested in understanding all that foreign writing between the English lines, which Billy has insisted are always tagged along, regardless of printing costs and other short-sighted concerns.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 127
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 03:01 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vivienne and Dyson,

I do not have the time to read through the whole of your translation, and I have already read the Bulletin, but from what I have seen, your translation is good, albeit somewhat formulaic and hurried--but this is precisely the kind of translation required for such up-to-date topical publications. It should be clear to any student of history, already, though, who is also in possession of a sense of logic and morality, that Tibet was never more than an oversized Vatican inhabited and ruled by power-hungry occultists.

I expect more translations from you two, and perhaps more participation in the forum, open criticism of me, or something along those lines which would signify that you are still alive, well, and active.

Contrary to what Dyson may think, I am not occupying this forum as some kind of an agent of any organisation, O.T.O. or otherwise. I see organisations as a kind of imagined structure, while individual humans are the true actors within that structure; humans who limit themselves to fanaticism in favour of a culture/group/secret society/etc. could be designated as quite foolish.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Adityasonakia
Member

Post Number: 224
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Matthew,

Why are you asking for more criticism man?
Well, and you sort of sound as though you are commanding Dyson and Vivienne to translate more stuff. They are doing thier best.

They are probably the people who are doing much more than anybody (excpet a few) on this forum.

If criticism comes to you then do not leave it, fight for your right, but only if you know you are with the truth. If you are not, then do not say a thing.

Stay cool man..

Salome
Aditya

P.S : I apologise to the moderators for posting in the wrong area.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 128
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adityasonakia,

No. I invite criticism, regardless of its validity, because it may stimulate reconsiderations of overlooked matters, etc. Well-spoken criticism is not a purely negative thing when cause-and-effect is taken into consideration. Any true friend will criticise their friend's mistaken behaviour, beliefs, etc., if they are thinking neutral-positively and not egoistically and positive-degenerately.

There needs to be debate and criticism in culture, just like there needs to be common sense, harmony, and cooperation, etc. Logic and love are both demanded should a person think like a conscious human being. One-hemisphered individuals tend to fall into a number of self-created traps.

It is also to note that in the United States of America it is common practise to shower everyone one greets with compliments and ego-boosting statements, while many other cultures find this bizarre (such as most traditional Chinese).

Salome,

- Matthew
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Peter_brodowski
Member

Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey there matthew, i accept your invitation.

"It should be clear to any student of history...."

no, that is a feeble minded statement because it is misleading and one sided, tibet was and is a land with a culture, with a people, some smart, some ignorant, some kind and loving, some deceptive and greedy. it's a place were humans with spirits live the life according to their own judgement based on their degrees of understanding.

"I expect more translations...."
you are a smart person (seemingly), from what i gather you speak decent german?
go do some translations and be a real friend to dyson and vivienne.
i have nothing against you, but i read some of your posts and something about them does not sit well with me. on the outside you seem like a helpfull person, but at second glance, you seem a bit egotistic to put it in mild terms.
this is the FIGU forum, not the MATTHEW forum.
if you really want criticism i could easily turn your world upside down but i am a nice person :-)
and i would'nt want you to fall down and hit your head. ego's are like apples, they are easily bruised and though they contain seeds, the seeds can be deadly if eaten in abundance.

"It is also to note that in the United States of America it is common......"
a traditional chinese family also opt's for killing their daughters in favour of sons.
not all of course, but an average family for sure.

so with the above said, it is my humble opinion that matthew focus on doing some tranlations, perhaps the amount equal to what dyson and his partner have done, and spend less time talking down on tibet, common americans, dyson and whatever else. it just makes no sense for someone whom is wise (seemingly) to go on such rants, knowing that time is not a luxury and translations are in great need. dyson and his partner have earned respect from many figu members for their efforts.
you seem to crave attention, perhaps due to some experiences growing up, you think that you are not given the appreciation you think you deserve, or perhaps you have degenerate views in regards to your own self worth. whatever it is, it reads like a well translated book.

and for the record, this post was to comment on translations and the need of able translators, and as per invitation, a friendly criticism of a figu forum member.
:-)
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 767
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

More underway about the current threat to Earth from hostile barbaric ETs.

Salome,
Dyson (& Vivienne)



Authorised unofficial translation from Special Bulletin #44 June 2008 by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine, May 21st, 2008.

Leserfrage

Reader question

In Ihren Bulletins beschimpfen Sie den Dalai Lama als Frauen- und Friedensfeind und behaupten, dass er für die Demonstrationen bei den Fackelläufen ebenso verantwortlich sei wie auch dafür, was durch die Chinesen in Tibet geschieht.

In your bulletins you insult the Dalai Lama as being an enemy of women and an enemy of peace and claim that he is just as responsible for the demonstrations with the torch relays as he is for what the Chinese cause to happen in Tibet.

Ich finde es bedauerlich und eine Schande, dass Sie, Billy Meier, sich so gegen den Dalai Lama stellen, da er doch, wie weltweit bekannt, wirklich ein Mann des Friedens und ein ehrlicher und guter geistlicher Führer ist, der für sein Volk in Tibet alles in friedlicher Weise tut und Tibet von den chinesischen Aggressoren befreien will.

I find it unfortunate and a shame that you, Billy Meier, so confront the Dalai Lama since, as it is known worldwide, he is indeed really a man of peace and an honest and good spiritual leader who does everything for his people in Tibet in a peaceful manner and wants to free Tibet from the Chinese aggressors.


U. Schläpfer, Schweiz

U. Schläpfer, Switzerland





Antwort

Answer

Tibet in friedlicher Weise von den chinesischen Aggressoren befreien, das ist wohl der beste Witz der letzten 1000 Jahre, wenn man bedenkt, wie seit Jahrzehnten mit modernsten Waffen ausgerüstete Anhänger, Gläubige und Mönche unter der geheimen Führung des Dalai Lama Kämpfe gegen die Chinesen führen oder blutige Aufstände durchführen.

To free Tibet in a peaceful manner from the Chinese aggressors - that is probably the best joke of the last 1000 years, when one considers how, for decades, followers, the faithful and monks, equipped with the most modern weapons, have fought against the Chinese or carried out bloody uprisings under the secret leadership of the Dalai Lama.

Mit dem, was ich in den Bulletins veröffentliche, beschimpfe ich nicht den Dalai Lama, sondern das, was er hinterlistig tut und wodurch er seine Anhänger und Gläubigen betrügt, sie nicht nur hinterlistig und infam für seine religiösen Gottsein-Gelüste und politische Machtgier missbraucht, sondern viele von ihnen auch in den Tod oder in die Gefängnisse treibt.

With that which I publish in the bulletins I do not insult the Dalai Lama, rather that which he treacherously does and through which he deceives his followers and devotees, not only treacherously and infamously abusing them for his religious craving to be god, and his political greed for power, rather also driving many of them into death or into prisons.

Er ist kein Freund des Friedens, denn in Wahrheit ist er ein machtgieriger und bösartiger Geselle, der das tibetische Volk in Elend und Not treibt und durch seine mit tödlichen Waffen versehenen Untergrundkämpfer hinterhältig antreibt, sich an chinesischen Menschen, hauptsächlich Soldaten und Geschäftsleuten in Tibet, mörderisch zu vergehen, wobei sein Plan darauf beruht, die religiöse und politische Macht über Tibet zu gewinnen.

He is no friend of peace, because in truth he is a power-greedy and malicious fellow who drives the Tibetan people into misery and need and who underhandedly motivates them, via his underground fighters who are supplied with deadly weapons, to murderously go for the Chinese people - primarily soldiers and business people in Tibet - whereby his plan is based on gaining religious and political power over Tibet.

Er ist tatsächlich ein böser und reissender Wolf im Schafspelz.

He is actually a bad and rapacious wolf in sheep's clothing.


Lesen sie dazu folgend einen Gesprächsauszug aus dem 463. Kontaktgespräch vom 24. April 2008.

Read the following conversation extract from the 463rd contact conversation of April 24th, 2008.


Billy

Billy



Auszug aus dem 463. Kontakt, 24. April 2008

Extract from the 463rd contact, April 24th, 2008

Billy

Billy

Das ist mir klar.

That is clear to me.

Dann zu etwas anderem: Ihr verfolgt ja auch die Sache mit dem olympischen Fackellauf.

Then to something else: you people also pursue the matter of the Olympic torch relay.

Dieser wird praktisch in allen Ländern sehr stark durch Demonstrationen und Gewalteingriffe gestört durch Tibetfreundliche sowie Tibeter, die in jenen Ländern ansässig sind, wo jeweils der Fackellauf stattfindet.

This is very strongly disturbed in practically all countries by demonstrations and violent interventions by friends of Tibet as well as Tibetans who are residents in any country where the torch relay occurs in each case.

Dabei wird gegen China geheult und getobt und «Free Tibet» gefordert.

Along with that there are howls and raging against China and demands to "Free Tibet".

Natürlich steckt der Dalai Lama mit seiner Anti-China-Propaganda hinter dem Ganzen.

Naturally the Dalai Lama, with his anti-China propaganda, is behind the whole thing.

Er versteht es, seine Anhänger allein schon dadurch in Rage zu bringen, indem er droht, als grosser Boss der Exilregierung zurückzutreten, weil sie in ihm den eigentlichen Erlöser sehen.

He understands just how to bring his followers into a rage by threatening to step back as the great boss of the government in exile, because they see the actual redeemer in him.



Ptaah

Ptaah


Das entspricht dem, was wirklich ist.

That corresponds to reality.

Der Dalai Lama benutzt seine ihm Gläubigen und sonstigen Anhänger dazu, die Olympiade zu einem politischen Terrorakt zu machen und China in jeder möglichen Art und Weise zu beschimpfen und zu verunglimpfen.

The Dalai Lama uses his faithful and other followers to make the Olympiad a political act of terror and to insult and denigrate China in every possible manner.

Natürlich ist China seit alters her ein Staat der Gewalt und des Unrechts, doch das, was durch den Dalai Lama, durch seine Anhänger und Gläubigen getan wird, ist nicht des Rechtens.

Naturally, since ancient times China has been a violent country doing what is wrong, yet that which is done by the Dalai Lama and by his followers and his faithful is not right.

Andererseits greifen auch die lamaistischen Mönche und die Gläubigen zu den Waffen und gehen damit gegen die chinesischen Menschen vor, was aufzeigt, was wirklich hinter dem lamaistischen Mönchtum und Glauben steckt, nämlich nichts Besseres, als das auch bei allen anderen Religionen der Fall ist, die ihre Waffen weihen und damit Menschen töten.

On the other hand the Lamaistic monks and the faithful also grasp their weapons and advance against the Chinese people which demonstrates what is really behind the Lamaistic monasticism and beliefs, namely, nothing better than that which is also the case with all other religions that consecrate their weapons and thereby kill humans.

Und dass hier nun der friedliche Wettkampfsinn der Olympiade durch die Machenschaften des Dalai Lama und seiner Gläubigen und Anhänger zum politischen Machtkampf gemacht wird, das ist nicht nur Unrecht und sehr bedauerlich, sondern kriminell, menschenunwürdig, verbrecherisch und eine Farce sondergleichen.

It is not only wrong and very regrettable, rather criminal, unworthy of humans, felonious and a farce without comparison that here, now, the Olympiad's peaceful meaning of competition is turned into a political power struggle as a result of the machinations of the Dalai Lama and his faithful and followers.

Friedliche Olympiade muss friedliche Olympiade bleiben, und was Politik ist, muss Politik bleiben, und diese hat mit der Olympiade nichts zu tun und darf folglich nicht mit politischen Machtallüren vermischt werden.

Peaceful Olympiad must remain peaceful Olympiad and what is politics must remain politics, and this has nothing to do with the Olympiad and consequently may not be intermingled with political affectations of power.

Und was mit den Gewaltakten und Demonstrationen gegen China getan wird, ist Unrecht gegen das ganze chinesische Volk, denn diese Menschen sind die Leidtragenden beim ganzen bösartigen und verlogenen Getue der Chinafeinde, Demonstranten und Gewalttäter.

And what is done with the acts of violence and demonstrations against China constitutes a wrong against the entire Chinese people because these humans are the bearers of the suffering resulting from the whole malicious and mendacious fuss of the enemies of China, demonstrators and those who carry out violence.

Die chinesischen Menschen lieben ihr Land, folglich es sie um so härter trifft, was durch die kriminellen, verbrecherischen und menschenunwürdigen Gewaltakte und Demonstrationen gegen China zutage tritt.

The Chinese people love their country, consequently that which comes about against China through the criminal, felonious and human-unworthy acts of violence and demonstrations strikes them all the harder.

Folglich setzt sich jeder Mensch ins Unrecht, der sich den machtlüsternen Machenschaften des Dalai Lama anschliesst, den Olympischen Fackellauf stört, gegen China unflätige Worte ausruft und ein freies Tibet fordert.

Consequently, any human who joins the Dalai Lama's power-craving machinations, disturbs the torch relay, calls out indecent words against China and demands a free Tibet is in the wrong.

Das ist nicht der Weg und kein Akt des Friedens, sondern ein böser Akt des offenen Terrors, dessen sich jeder Mensch schuldig macht, der an solchen Handlungen teilnimmt oder auch nur Gedanken in dieser Weise pflegt.

That is not the way and is no act of peace, rather an evil act of open terror which makes all humans who take part in such activities, or who only just nurture thoughts in this manner, guilty.

Tibet nämlich kann durch den heraufbeschworenen weltweiten Terror des Dalai Lama gegen China erst recht nicht frei werden, denn darauf lässt sich China nicht ein, und zwar mit Recht.

Tibet, namely, cannot in the least become free as a result of the Dalai Lama's conjured-up worldwide terror against China because China does not get involved in that, and indeed quite rightly.

Die ganzen Demonstrationen und Gewalttaten gegen die Fackelläufer und die bösen Worte gegen China zwingen die Regierenden des Landes erst recht, stur und unerbittlich zu sein.

All the demonstrations and acts of violence against the torch runners, and the bad words against China, force the country's governors to be all the more stubborn and unyielding.

Doch die blanke Dummheit, der Unverstand und die Unvernunft sowie Unlogik der Gewalttäter und Demonstranten ist dermassen gross, dass sie diese Wahrheit nicht zu erkennen vermögen.

Yet the stark stupidity, the lack of judgment and the irrationality as well as lack of logic of the demonstrators and those who carry out the violence, is so great that they are not able to recognise this truth.

Sollte es sein, dass Tibet einst selbständig wird, dann sind dazu langwierige Verhandlungen sowie Verstand, Vernunft und Logik notwendig, die jedoch nicht durch den machtgierigen Dalai Lama und seine Abgesandten geführt werden können, sondern nur durch neutrale Verhandlungspartner, die selbst nicht nach religiöser und politischer Macht streben, wie das beim Dalai Lama und seinen Beauftragten der Fall ist.

Should it come about that Tibet becomes independent then, to that end, understanding, reason and logic are necessary as well as lengthy negotiations which cannot however be led by the power-greedy Dalai Lama and his emissaries, rather only through neutral negotiation partners who do not themselves strive for religious and political power as is the case with the Dalai Lama and those in his commission.

Und bei solchen Verhandlungen darf keine Gewalt und keine Demonstration im Vordergrund stehen, sondern nur Verstand, Vernunft und Logik.

And with such negotiations, no violence and no demonstrations may come to the fore, rather only understanding, reason and logic.

Was dabei die gewalttätige Geschichte Chinas betrifft, das ist eine andere Sache und wurde und wird nicht vom chinesischen Volk, sondern von den Machthabern gesteuert, und dafür ist das Volk nicht haftbar zu machen, denn dieses hat in China so gut wie nichts zu sagen, sondern nur zu gehorchen.

That which concerns China's history of violence is another matter and was not, and will not be, steered by the Chinese people, rather by those in power, and therefore the people are not to be made responsible for that because in China they have as good as no say, and instead they must only listen.

Die Machthaber Chinas sind mit ihren zahlenmässig überbordenden Militärs, mit der Polizei und mit den Sicherheitsbeamten usw. zu mächtig, als dass sich das Volk zur Wehr setzen könnte.

Those who hold power in China are too powerful, with their excessive number of military, with the police and with the security officials, and so forth, for the people to defend themselves.

Wenn eine Änderung zum Besseren eintreten soll, dann kann das nur allmählich geschehen, und zwar derart, dass sich das Volk langsam zusammentut und durch Verhandlungen immer bessere Wege fordert und beschreitet, damit die Machthabenden beeinflusst werden, diese ihr Gehabe und ihre Ansichten und Meinungen ändern und langsam menschlicher werden.

If a change for the better is to emerge then that can only happen gradually and indeed in such a way that the people slowly get together and, through negotiations, always demand, and go, better ways so that the power-holders are influenced, change their behaviour and their views and opinions, and slowly become more humane.

Der ‹Kelch der Wahrheit› ist das Buchwerk, das die Chinesen ebenso dringend benötigen wie auch alle anderen Erdenmenschen aller Länder sowie alle Religionen, Sekten, Philosophien und Ideologien.

The "Chalice of Truth" is the text that the Chinese require just as urgently as do all other Earth humans in all countries as well as in all religions, sects, philosophies and ideologies.



Billy

Billy


Mögen deine Worte in der Menschen Ohr gelangen, doch die Dummheit gewisser Menschen kennt leider keine Grenzen.

May your words reach the ear of the human, yet the stupidity of certain humans unfortunately knows no bounds.

Diese der Dummheit Verfallenen sehen und wissen auch nicht, dass sich seit den Zeiten von Mao Zsedong resp. Mao Tse-dung gewisse Dinge in China zum Besseren verändert haben.

These who have succumbed to stupidity also do not see and know that since the times of Mao Zedong, respectively, Mao Tse-tung, certain things have changed for the better in China.

Und sie sehen und wissen auch nicht, was China in bezug auf Tibet resp. für das tibetische Volk getan hat, nämlich dass China dieses aus der Schuldenunterjochung, Leibeigenschaft und Sklaverei befreite.

And they also do not see and know what China has done in relation to Tibet, respectively, for the Tibetan people, namely, that China freed it from subjugation to debt, from serfdom and from slavery.

Und wenn auch das, was China im eigenen Land an Gutem und Fortschrittlichem für die Menschen und das Land gebracht hat, für unsere europäischen Verhältnisse nicht gerade sehr viel ist, so stellt es doch für China viel dar.

And even if that which is good and progressive which China has brought in its own country for the people and the country is not exactly very much in terms of our European circumstances, it still represents a lot for China.

Natürlich darf dabei aber die Regimegewalt nicht übersehen werden, durch die viele Ungerechtigkeiten an den Menschen verübt werden, wobei die vielen Tausenden von Hinrichtungen die grösste Ausartung sind.

Naturally, the violence of the regime, through which much injustice is exercised against the people, whereby the biggest degeneration is the many thousands of executions, may thereby not be overlooked.

Das aber ist nicht das chinesische Volk, sondern das Regime, das für die Gewalt und die Ungerechtigkeiten schuldig zu zeichnen hat.

But that is not the Chinese people, rather the regime which has to be recorded as being to blame for the violence and the injustices.

Die Menschen Chinas sind nicht besser und nicht schlechter als die andern Menschen aller anderen Länder der Erde.

The people of China are no better and no worse than the other people of all the other countries of the Earth.

Und wie die Schweizer und alle anderen Menschen aller Staaten unserer Erde stolz auf ihr Heimatland sind und die Heimat schätzen und lieben, so ist das auch der Fall beim chinesischen Volk.

And just as the Swiss and all other humans of all countries of our Earth are proud of their homeland and treasure and love their home, that is also the case with the Chinese people.

Daher ist es schon aus diesem Grunde eine grenzenlose Schande aller jener, die in bezug auf die Olympiade und den Olympischen Fackellauf China drangsalieren, denn grundlegend wird durch die Demonstrations- und Gewaltmachenschaften der Dummen, die Gläubige und Anhänger des Dalai Lama sind, in Hauptsache nicht das Regime Chinas getroffen, sondern die gesamte chinesische Bevölkerung.



Therefore, for this reason alone, all those who torment China in regard to the Olympiad and the Olympic torch relay are an unbounded disgrace because, basically, it is not primarily China's regime which is effected by the machinations, to do with the demonstrations and violence, of the stupid, the faithful and followers of the Dalai Lama, rather the entire Chinese population.



Diese aber ist unschuldig an den Regimehandlungen, gegen die sie sich nicht zur Wehr setzen kann, wenigstens gegenwärtig noch nicht, weil die Zeit und die notwendige Freiheitsbewegung im Volk noch nicht reif dafür ist.



But it is innocent in terms of the actions of the regime against which it cannot defend itself, at least still not at present, because the time and the necessary peace movement among the people is still not ripe for that.



Also ist es eine Gemeinheit sondergleichen all der Gewalttätigen und Demonstrierenden, die gegen China wettern und in ihrer primitiven Dummheit nicht wissen, was sie tun, nämlich dass sie die gesamte Bevölkerung Chinas und deren Freude in bezug auf die Olympiade in die Pfanne hauen und das ganze Volk grenzenlos beleidigen.



Therefore it is incomparably mean that all those, who carry out violence and demonstrate, fulminate against China and do not know, in their primitive stupidity, what they do, namely, that they cut the entire population of China, and its joys in regard to the Olympiad, into pieces, and insult the entire population beyond all measure.



Es ist bereits nicht mehr nur dumm, sondern gar primitiv und tatsächlich, wie du sagst, kriminell und verbrecherisch zu nennen, was die Demonstranten und Gewalttäter gegen den Olympischen Fackellauf und gegen das chinesische Volk unter der hinterhältigen Führung und den gemeinen Machenschaften des Dalai Lama und seiner bösartigen Untergrundarmee anrichten und den Chinesen gefährden, dass auch sie endlich einmal in ihrem Land eine Olympiade durchführen und erleben dürfen.



That which the demonstrators and violators cause against the Olympic torch relay and against the Chinese people under the Dalai Lama's underhanded leadership and as a result of his mean machinations and his malicious underground army - and with which they endanger the Chinese people as they also at last carry out, and are allowed to experience, an Olympiad in their land - is already no longer just stupid, rather quite primitive and actually, as you say, is to be called criminal and a punishable act.



Das Ganze in dieser Beziehung gegen die chinesische Bevölkerung Gerichtete ist blanker Rassismus und primitivste Dummheit, wobei idiotisch völlig verlogenerweise das Volk Chinas dafür haftbar gemacht wird, was allein das Regime zu verantworten hat.



The whole thing in this regard which is directed against the Chinese population is naked racism and the most primitive stupidity whereby the people of China are idiotically, completely mendaciously, made to be responsible for that for which the regime alone is responsible.



Aber gewisse Menschen sind wirklich dumm und primitiv, wie das auch auf jene zutrifft, die z.B. durch sogenannte Erinnerungsfestlichkeiten die schrecklichen Nazimachenschaften hochjubeln und dadurch den Neonazismus fördern.



But certain humans are really stupid and primitive as also applies to any who, for example, excessively exalt the terrible Nazi machinations through so-called remembrance solemnities, and thereby promote Neo-Nazism.



Gleichermassen dumm und primitiv sind aber auch jene, welche z.B. das heutige Volk Deutschlands dafür haftbar machen, was durch die Vorfahren im Ersten und Zweiten Weltkrieg an Menschheitsverbrechen begangen wurde, obwohl die heutigen Deutschen völlig unschuldig an allem sind, weil ihre Generationen an keinem der beiden Kriege teilgenommen haben.



However, just as stupid and primitive are all those who, for example, make the current people of Germany responsible for crimes against humanity which were committed by their forefathers in the first and second world wars, although the current Germans are completely innocent in relation to everything because their generations took no part in the two wars.



Nichtsdestoweniger jedoch gibt es weltweit in allen Ländern viele Deutschhasser, weil sie das Geschehene der damaligen Kriegsverbrechen durch Überlieferungen immer wieder aufwärmen, durch Hasstiraden explodieren lassen, Unbeteiligte aufhetzen und die Deutschen verunglimpfen.



Nevertheless, however, in all countries worldwide there are many German haters, because by means of transmissions they rehash the events of the war crimes of that time again and again, they allow them to explode through tirades of hate, they incite those who did not take part, and they revile the Germans.



Was aber an ebenso grossen Kriegsverbrechen durch US-Amerika weltweit begangen wurde und weiterhin begangen wird, davon will niemand etwas wissen, geschweige denn, dass offen darüber gesprochen und die USA resp. deren Verantwortliche, wie Bush und Konsorten, durch die UNO und durch das Kriegsverbrechertribunal in Den Haag zur Rechenschaft gezogen werden.



But nobody wants to know anything about those war crimes which were just as big and were, and still are further, committed worldwide by US-America, let alone speak openly about them and bring the USA, respectively, their responsible ones, like Bush and consorts, to justice through the UN and through the war crimes tribunal in the Hague.



Auch was sich Israel leistet in bezug auf Palästina gehört dazu, wobei aber alle Verbrechen weltweit toleriert werden, während Palästina resp. dessen Bevölkerung rundum verdammt wird.



Also what Israel carries out in regard to Palestine belongs to that, whereby, however, all wrongdoing is tolerated worldwide while Palestine, respectively, its population, is damned everywhere.



Natürlich heisst das nicht, dass Palästinas Terrormachenschaften toleriert werden können, denn diese sind nicht besser als die Terrorakte Israels, der USA und aller anderen Staaten, die durch ihre Militärs und Polizeiorgane sowie durch Geheimdienste und sogenannte Sicherheitsdienste Terror, Vergewaltigung, Zerstörung und Vernichtung ausüben und Mord, Totschlag sowie Not, Elend und Trauer verbreiten.



Naturally that does not mean that Palestine's terror machinations can be tolerated, because these are no better than the acts of terror of Israel, the USA and all other countries which exercise terror, rape, destruction and annihilation through their military and policing organs as well as through secret services and so-called security services, and spread murder, homicide, and need, misery and grief.



Und wenn ich das so klar und deutlich sage, dann kommen wieder Unbedarfte, Dumme, Irre, Naive und Besserwisser usw. heran und behaupten, dass ich politisieren würde, obwohl das in keiner Weise der Fall ist, weil ich nämlich nichts anderes tue, als das klar und deutlich aufzuzeigen, was Wirklichkeit und Wahrheit ist.



And when I say that so clearly and pointedly then clueless, stupid, crazy, and naive ones and know-it-alls, and so forth, come along again and claim that I am being political, although that is in no way the case because I namely do nothing other than clearly and pointedly point out what is the reality and truth.



Und als verantwortungsvoller Mensch ist es meine Pflicht und Schuldigkeit, die Wahrheit und Realität so aufzuzeigen, wie sie effectiv ist, und zwar ohne dass ich ein Blatt vor den Mund nehme, weil nicht um den Brei herumgeredet werden darf, wie das feige durch die Medien und durch alle jene Dummen und Primitiven geschieht, die nur eine grosse Klappe haben, leere hohle Worte reden und sich feige und angstvoll vor der Wahrheit und Wirklichkeit verkriechen.



And as a responsible human it is my duty and responsibility to point out the truth and reality in such a way that it is effective, and indeed without putting my hand over my mouth because one may not beat around the bush as happens in a cowardly manner through the media and through all stupid and primitive ones who only have a big trap, talk empty, hollow words and cowardly and anxiously creep away from the truth and reality.



Und ich denke, dass ich das, was wir nun zusammen besprochen haben, auch ins Internet setze mit einem neuen Sonder-Bulletin.



And I think that I will also put all that which we have now discussed together on the Internet in a new Special Bulletin.





Ptaah

Ptaah


Du hältst auch in bezug auf die Öffentlichkeit mit deinen in allen Punkten zutreffenden Worten nicht zurück, das weiss ich.

I know that you do not hold back also in regard to the publication of your consistently appropriate words.

Dazu kann ich dir aber nur beipflichten, das zu tun, was du gesagt hast, denn es ist äusserst selten auf der Erde, dass jemand die Wahrheit so mit wahrheitlichen Worten zu sagen wagt, wie du das seit jeher tust.

To that end, I can only agree with you that you do what you have said because it is extremely seldom on the Earth that anyone dares to tell the truth with such truthful words, as you have always done.

Dass du dafür aber von wirklich Unbedarften und Dummen angegriffen werden wirst, wie das ja auch seit der Aufnahme deiner Mission immer wieder geschah und du gar deines Lebens gefährdet wurdest, das dürfte fraglos sein.

But there is no question that you will be attacked for that by really clueless and stupid ones, as has always, again and again, happened since the acceptance of your mission, and that you even endangered your life.

Billy

Billy

Weiss ich, mein Freund, doch das hindert mich nicht an der Erfüllung meiner Pflicht.

I know, my friend, yet that does not hinder me in fulfilling my duty.

Aber wenn ich dir nochmals eine Frage stellen darf, wenn du noch Zeit dafür hast? …

But if I may still ask a question, if you still have time for that? ...
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Adityasonakia
Member

Post Number: 226
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dyson and Vivienne,

Thanks again for your translation. :-)

Salome
Aditya
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 369
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

Your translation is awfully awkward, just as saying, "awfully awkward" sounds. You'll have to explain the part in your introduction where you write, "...and invented words". It's in dire need of a better clarification.

While I have zero German language skills, I think saying, "nescient ignorance", is quickly redundant in its form.

I couldn't acquire any help from the embedded Dictionary for this mangled translation:

"Equally conditioned and corequisite it is, to guide new ways which lead into a ghost-forstanding * and consciousness- as well as ghost-harmonising future."

But, I get what is meant by the statement.

In your footnotes you write:

"Note that Geist is also used, although to a lesser degree, incorrectly to mean "spectre, apparition, spook", &c. "

It sounds as if your correcting Arahat Athersata. Am I reading this properly?

Help me out here...
a friend in america
Shawn
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 370
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi D & V,

Always glad to know your still there. The ease of reading your translation style pushes me to step up and realize I need to form a proper schedule for learning German.

Dyson, I had sent you a letter at the address I acquired through a helpful poster who updated your whereabouts during your absence. It was returned I think because it coincided with the end of your ordeal, which was a good reason. :-) Maybe when your caught back up with your backlog I could pm the original. It was something I had written at the age of 18-19 during a similar situation, of which you, and Vivienne, endured.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 643
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks D&V , once again .

Billy's firm explanation , the courage of his convictions and the risk he takes for doing so speaks for itself .

Forum arguments and incitations : I notice things about certain people , personalities , mostly obstinate stubborn types that condescend , make glaring mistakes in order to incite reactions centered around them , for reasons that are obscured by their anonymity .
I have seldom been wrong in my instincts about people , and since we cannot see each other here , those instincts are magnified .

If you can ignore someone's obvious distraction tactics , notice where the distractions occur , then you can start to understand what the motive is behind that particular action .

There isn't a ghost of a chance that they can succeed if everyone understands this simple psychology , and uses it to ignore the phantom menace , if I may paraphrase the title of a popular space-opera.

Toodles !
Mark Campbell
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 350
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Matthew,

I will start off by saying that although I do not speak perfect English with a poor grammar, I will give you some opinions and things I noticed, as you are asking for it.

1. First observation is that in one paragraph you refer to humanity as a he and the next paragraph as a she.

2. You use the word Ghost to describe Geist which is incorrect in relation to the FIGU material. You might want to refer to authorized and official translation and see if you ever find the word Ghost in relation to the human spirit. But you did make me laugh out loud with Ghostform :-) was amusing, could have thought it’s a joke.

3. Last but not least your invention of new words is totally inappropriate in my opinion. Especially when the words have no actual meaning. Best way to approach it is to see how Billy overcame this problem. When he had problems explaining something he first defined what he meant with a specific word, because it might be the case that a word has been misunderstood or misinterpreted, so he went and redefined certain words, without having to invent anything new. Simple example is Akashik Records he did come up with a new word which is Storage Banks, but it’s nothing out of our dictionary. Or Geistkrankheiten he just changed to Psychischekrankheiten, simply because the Spirit “not Ghost” cannot become ill.

It seems like you need to re-evaluate the way you translate, you should consider talking to authorized translators about it, someone might be able to give you some hints on what mistakes you do. Maybe one day you become so good at translating that FIGU would grant you approval to become an authorized translator, which would give your translation more credibility, but you still need to do more work before publishing. But that’s only my opinion.

Salome, Badr
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Corey
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson und Vivienne,

is the upcoming work (the current threat to Earth from hostile barbaric ETs) from pages 10-11 of Sonder Bulletin 44 or something else ?

Corey
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Baselineplayer
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Post Number: 21
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson & Vivienne,

Many thanks for the excellent translations. It is a very good help for me to also learn, or rather re-learn the German too.

It was several decades ago since I seriously learned German but was then a bit hit by the extensive grammar.

Even though, I have kept it alive in a smaller extent until now, when it is time to re-learn it and also re-live it for further use.

It is also always appreciated to see you turn up again on the web. Your past website was indeed great and extensive which offered a lot of reading in the evenings, especially the Billy Meier parts.
Med Bästa Hälsningar / Mit Besten Grüssen / With Best Regards

/Baselineplayer
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Matthew_deagle
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shawn,

Then I suppose Ptaah was correct in saying that:

"135. Erstaunlicherweise ergab sich bei der englischen Sprache, dass die normalen Begriffe der landesüblichen Sprache für England und Amerika derart primitiv und falschaussagend und die eigentlichen Werte so falsch bedeutend sind, dass eine Codierung in keiner Weise erfolgen kann."

"135. Astonishingly the English language is such that the normal terms for the language common to the land for England and America are so primitive and falseness-expressing, and the essential values are of such false meaning, that a coding can in no way succeed."

"136. Die einzige einigermassen zutreffende Möglichkeit einer halbwertigen Codierung ergäbe sich nur daraus, dass neue Worte und Begriffe kreiert oder aus verschiedenen Worten zusammengesetzt oder von deutschen Worten und Begriffen einfach ins Englische umgewandelt würden."

"136. The single possibility of a half worthy coding, which strikes the mark in some measure, came only from the creation of new words and terms or out of various words put together, or from German words and terms simply transformed into English."

"137. Englischsprechende sind aber durch diese armselige Sprache nicht fähig, solche Worte.- oder Begriffs­neuerungen oder Wortumwandlungen aus einer anderen Sprache zu verstehen, wie sie auch nicht fähig sind, einfache Wortzusammenfügungen und also Wortzusammensetzungen erfassen und verstehen zu können."

"137. But English speaking people are, through this poor language, not capable of understanding such innovations of words or terms or word transformations out of another language, as they are also not capable of grasping and understanding the simple joining together of words, and therefore word combinations."

- Dyson's Translation of these lines from Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontactberichte, Gespräche, Block 7. Zweihunderteinundvierzigster Kontact Montag, 3. Februar 1992, 23:33 Uhr. S. 22 und 23


I do not see what is difficult to understand about this translation, except that without full knowledge of the spirit-teachings/ghostly teaching, it is pretty much impossible to accurately know what is meant by 'consciousness' and 'ghost'.

With regard to Geist/ghost, Arahat Athersata of course does not use this word incorrectly to mean either 'consciousness'/Bewusstsein or spectre/apparition/Gespenst/Spuk/spook; so no, of course I am not correcting Arahat Athersata. Rather, I am trying to convey his/their message in a manner where, knowing only the English language, a person may study the meanings of the words in depth (etymologically, etc.), and come to more spiritual/ghostly understandings than could ever occur if one hit the wall of superficiality put up by using false terminologies.

Salome,

- Matthew

---

Badr,

1. No, I did not. Humankind is masculine, whereas Humanity is feminine in this case, in order to preserve the personification used by Arahat Athersata. It may also be of note that the Latin word "mens" could be used to mean "Mensch", since the English "mind" now means "mentality" as well as the other meanings of "mens", and this is in fact the meaning of the German "Mensch". Person refers more to the persona, whereas mens would refer to the whole human being as a ghostly creature, just as Mensch does.

2. If FIGU have done this, they have done it under pressure from popular culture. The fact of the matter is that the Latin word "SPIRITVS" has meant the same as the Chinese word "&#27683;"="Qi"=Lebenshauch=Lebensenergie=Odem for thousands of years, and it was later transformed to mean "Geist", which is a false use of the word. Ghost, however, actually does still mean the same thing as Geist, and has evolved along similar lines to the Bairisch/Boarisch form of the word. If you have difficulty getting the images of the Rick Moranis and Dan Aykroyd ghostbusting out of your head when you hear the word, perhaps you should try to control this knee-jerk emotional reaction; perhaps some pre-20th century poetry would be of use, wherein 'ghostly' is often meant to mean "spiritual". Also, perhaps you are not aware that Christians still refer to "der heilige Geist" as "The Holy Ghost".

3. There are no words without an actual meaning--the purpose in modifying them or creating new words is to simply translate German concepts into English, or to revive words in this rich language which are being used for kindling by the average American. The English language has unfortunately become a language with great profusion of synonyms, but with very little fine detail in meaning, due to the sloppy use of words by the public. Thus, it is dividing, in both the USA and in Britian, into aristocratic elite dialects, and the common dialects, which become increasingly mutually unintelligible. It brings to mind the mantic foresight with which Crowley, the Beast 666, wrote the following:

"The language of the plains was simple but profuse. They had few nouns and fewer verbs. "To work again" (there was no word for "to work" simply), "to eat again," "to break the law" (no word for "to break the law again"), "to come from without," "to find light" ("i.e. "to go to the phosphorus factory) were almost the only verbs used by adults. The young men and women had a verb-language yet simpler, and of degraded coarseness. All had, however, an extraordinary wealth of adjectives, most of them meaningless, as attached to no noun ideas, and a great quantity of abstract nouns such as "Liberty," "Progress," without which no refined inhabitant could consider a sentence complete. He would introduce them into a discussion on the most material subjects. "The immoral snub-nose," "the unprogressive teeth," "lascivious music," "reactionary eyebrows" --- such were phrases familiar to all."To eat again, to sleep again, to work again, to find the light --- that is Liberty, that is Progress" was a proverb common in every mouth."

- Liber 51, The Lost Continent


You may both indeed be right that these translations would be of no value to the average American or Briton, yet at least the hope lies therein, that some among the elite should take these terms and meanings into their parlance, and into their occult vocabularies, etc., so that some responsible, Creative-natural-law-abiding rulership may begin to establish itself in this direly needy English-speaking world.

This is the greatest injury done by the degeneration of the English common dialects--that the average, unpriviliged person is completely excluded from even the slightest conscious cognitions of the ghostly truth, for they have not the words to name these things.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Markc,

"Forum arguments and incitations : I notice things about certain people , personalities , mostly obstinate stubborn types that condescend , make glaring mistakes in order to incite reactions centered around them , for reasons that are obscured by their anonymity."

Well, if you're referring to me, which it certainly seems you are, I of course am not anonymous on this forum. You, on the other hand, are.

"I have seldom been wrong in my instincts about people , and since we cannot see each other here , those instincts are magnified."

And how easy it is to justify any foolish opinion with subjective 'instincts' without any further logical extrapolation upon what those instincts might mean. Your vague terminology is also not helpful, for instance 'instinct' here could mean 'feeling', or it could mean 'brain-emotion'--in other words, it could be the shadow of some subconscious thought, but on the other hand, it could be just a seizure-like burst of electricity caused by illogical beliefs.

You must analyse yourself and your thoughts, feelings, words, etc., more rigorously in order to be able to come to any real knowledge or conclusion about such things. It is easy to go by rules of thumb and 'weed out' persons you don't like by these, but I do not think it would ultimately benefit you.

Salome,

- Matthew

---

Peter_brodowski,

no, that is a feeble minded statement because it is misleading and one sided, tibet was and is a land with a culture, with a people, some smart, some ignorant, some kind and loving, some deceptive and greedy. it's a place were humans with spirits live the life according to their own judgement based on their degrees of understanding.

So what? There are plenty of well-intentioned Catholics who do not believe in overpopulation, but are intentions more important than actions? Furthermore, the Tibetans are better off under a secular government than under the theocracy of Lamaism. This is not about the Tibetan people themselves, who are, however, quite responsible for their crazy beliefs and the degenerate aspects of their culture, but is more directed at their leaders, who should be making some effort to uplift the mental seedlings of Earth rather than oppressing them.

With regard to 'egotism', I suppose what you mean to say is 'confidence', which certainly I do have my own fair share of, the natural result of living on a planet populated by persons hardly capable of coming to correct conclusions.

The rest of your speculations are based on a false impression of what the 'ego' is. An egoist is someone who considers the world more in terms of themselves than in terms of common experience (general subjective reality) and objective truth. Thus, the average terrestrial person, who is also often insecure and unconfident, is quite an egoist. Egoism is basing one's image of reality on superficial, personal, brain-emotional impressions rather than on thorough thought and feeling.

Narcissism, on the other hand, is obsession with one's own success and appearance in life--narcissists tend to be smooth and pretentious, but insecure internally. A good description of a narcissist is in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:

"The GOYIM enter the lodges out of curiosity or in the hope by their means to get a nibble at the public pie, and some of them in order to obtain a hearing before the public for their impracticable and groundless fantasies: they thirst for the emotion of success and applause, of which we are remarkably generous. And the reason why we give them this success is to make use of the nigh conceit of themselves to which it gives birth, for that insensibly disposes them to assimilate our suggestions without being on their guard against them in the fullness of their confidence that it is their own infallibility which is giving utterance to their own thoughts and that it is impossible for them to borrow those of others .... You cannot imagine to what extent the wisest of the GOYIM can be brought to a state of unconscious naiveté in the presence of this condition of high conceit of themselves, and at the same time how easy it is to take the heart out of them by the slightest ill-success, though it be nothing more than the stoppage of the applause they had, and to reduce them to a slavish submission for the sake of winning a renewal of success .... BY SO MUCH AS OURS DISREGARD SUCCESS IF ONLY THEY CAN CARRY THROUGH THEIR PLANS, BY SO MUCH THE "GOYIM" ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE ANY PLANS ONLY TO HAVE SUCCESS. This psychology of theirs materially facilitates for us the task of setting them in the required direction. These tigers in appearance have the souls of sheep and the wind blows freely through their heads. We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM .... They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality ....

7. If we have been able to bring them to such a pitch of stupid blindness is it not a proof, and an amazingly clear proof, of the degree to which the mind of the GOYIM is undeveloped in comparison with our mind? This it is, mainly, which guarantees our success."

One can see from this good description of the narcissitic mentality, that if I were of such a variety of egoistic personality, I would certainly not provoke condemnation, as I do, by intentionally going against the grain. Rather, I would simply do whatever brought me applause, a sense of success, and validation. This is the mentality of many-a-CEO, CIA agent, Israeli fanatic, Muslim terrorist, &c. -- persons who desire above all else to be told they have done right, to reinforce emotionally their uncontrolled beliefs, rather than logically knowing that they have done right or examining their mistakes.

Remember that based upon superficial impressions one can come to enormously false conclusions. For instance, one could easily superficially argue that Billy must be a megalomaniac to state in his books that he is the Prophet of the New Age--and yet, upon logical examination, not only does he not seek praise, but he actually is provably the Prophet. Billy seeks to upset the comfortable falsehoods of terrestrials, in order that they might improve their lives, their society, their planet, their understanding, &c.

Salome,

- Matthew

---

Badr,

It seems like you need to re-evaluate the way you translate, you should consider talking to authorized translators about it, someone might be able to give you some hints on what mistakes you do. Maybe one day you become so good at translating that FIGU would grant you approval to become an authorized translator, which would give your translation more credibility, but you still need to do more work before publishing. But that’s only my opinion.

Perhaps for the sake of variety, and that English-speakers can be given some means of grasping the deeper meanings of the concepts, I will continue to refine a modified form of English for use with the ghostly teaching/spirit-teaching, while Dyson and Vivienne continue to produce their easier-to-read-but-still-preserving-meaning translations, if they will, and other FIGU folks continue to produce their watered-down-but-easy-for-the-average-American translations.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Markc
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew , you are undoubtedly the strangest person I've encountered yet on this forum .

Perhaps you would like to post another novel length post in response .

Needlessly tedious . Throws intellectualisms around like a weapon . Overly defensive . Can't take a hint. Argues endlessly defending wrong translated terms .

You are distracting . Nothing good will come of it . A hindrance to progress and cooperation .

I guess nobody in the FIGU has ever met me .
Thanks for informing me of this . I will make a note of it .


Efficiently , MC
Mark Campbell
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Jamesm
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson/Viv thanks for the translation. I thought Billy preferred Goblet of Truth and not Chalice of Truth? (Last paragraph of Ptaahs first response)

I've added this translation to futureofmankind.co.uk here.

Thanks again
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Gaiaguysnet
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear friends,

Second translation as promised.

- Don't panic! -

(And our thanks to all those who offer encouragement and other kind words here.)

Cheers!
Dyson (& Vivienne)
P.S. James: much debate and supporting information for "chalice" has already occured about (FIGU's, not Ptaah's choice) "goblet", but the final decision will be left with the professional. (Where's Dietmar Rothe?) But we two non-professionals have made our choice already, based on various abstruse and arcane etymological argumentations, etc. ;-)



Authorised unofficial translation (from pages 9-11), Special Bulletin #44 May 2008 by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine, May 22nd, 2008.

UFO-Beobachtung

UFO-Observation

Gemäss Meldung ‹News 5, Phoenix, AZ›, 22. April 2008, eingesandt von Andrew Cossette, Arizona/USA

According to an announcement: "News 5, Phoenix, AZ", April, 22nd, 2008, sent in by Andrew Cossette, Arizona/USA



Mysteriöse Lichter über Nord-Phoenix beobachtet

Mysterious Lights Observed Over North Phoenix

[translators note: you can view the diagram by visiting FIGU's German language web page, http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/periodika/sonder-bulletin/2008/nr-44/ufo-beobachtung ]



Sichtung Phoenix USA

Sighting, Phoenix USA

Die Polizei und Medien von Phoenix/USA wurden Montagnacht (den 21. April 08) mit Anrufen überflutet, nachdem Leute vier oder fünf rotfarbene Lichter beobachteten, die am Himmel über Nord Phoenix schwebten.

On Monday night (April 21st, '08) the police and media of Phoenix/USA were flooded with calls after people observed four or five red-coloured lights which hovered in the sky over North Phoenix.

Anrufer sagten, dass die Lichter einmal als gerade Linie erschienen, jedoch auch formiert als Viereck und dann als Dreieck.

Callers said that at one time the lights appeared as a straight line, however they also formed a square and then a triangle.

Sie waren um 20.00 h für ca. 15 Minuten sichtbar, ehe sie nach Osten steuerten und verschwanden.

They were visible at 8pm for approximately 15 minutes before they steered to the East and disappeared.

Diensthabende am Deer Valley Airport in Nord-Phoenix und Luftverkehr-Kontrolleure am Sky Harbor International im Ostviertel von Phoenix waren auch unter denen, welche die Lichter sahen.

Duty officers at the Deer Valley Airport in North Phoenix and air-traffic controllers at the Sky Harbor International in the east quarter of Phoenix were also among those who saw the lights.

Sie konnten diese nicht erklären, und die Air Force sagte, die Lichter seien nicht ein Teil irgendwelcher Aktivitäten der Air Force gewesen.

They could not explain them and the Air Force said that the lights had not been a part of any of the Air Force's activities.

Übersetzung: Billy

Translation: Billy



Auszug aus 463. Kontakt, 24. April 2008

Extract from the 463rd contact, April 24th, 2008

Billy Dazu nun die Frage, ob ihr bezüglich dieser Sache irgendwelche Kenntnisse habt?

Billy Now, the question in regard to that is whether you people have some knowledge in relation to this matter.

Handelte es sich bei diesen Lichtern um Schiffe eurer Föderation oder um solche der drei verschiedenen fremden Gruppierungen?

Do these lights have something to do with ships from your federation or with those of the three different foreign groups?

Ptaah Da wir die drei fremden Gruppierungen nur noch sporadisch in unsere Beobachtungen einbeziehen, so kann ich darüber leider nichts sagen, denn zu jener Zeit fiel das im Bericht genannte Gebiet nicht in unseren näheren Beobachtungsbereich.

Ptaah Since we still only sporadically include the three foreign groups in our observations I can unfortunately say nothing about that because at no time does the area named in the report fall into our field of closer observation.

Wie ich das Ganze gemäss diesem Bericht beurteile, muss es sich wohl um Fluggeräte der drei fremden Gruppierungen gehandelt haben.

As I judge the entire thing according to this report, it must probably have something to do with flying devices of the three foreign groups.

Das Ganze mit den Formationen und den Flugbewegungen sowie mit dem Verschwinden der Fluggeräte deutet klar darauf hin.

The whole thing with the formations and the flight maneuvers, as well as with the disappearance of the flying devices, points clearly to that.

Andere ausserirdische Fluggeräte als die der drei fremden Gruppierungen, haben wir jedenfalls schon seit langer Zeit nicht registriert, und zwar auch nicht in bezug auf Einflüge in den irdischen Luftraum.

In any case, for a long time already, we have not registered extraterrestrial flying devices other than those of the three foreign groups, nor indeed have we in regard to incursions into the terrestrial air space.

Fremde neue ausserirdische Besucher hätten wir mit aller Sicherheit registriert, und ausserdem sind solche Einflüge sehr selten, denn sehr viele fremde Lebensformen fremder und ferner Welten verfügen nicht über die Raumfahrt, während andere die universellen Distanzen noch nicht zu bewältigen vermögen.

We would most certainly have registered strange new extraterrestrial visitors, and besides, such incursions are very rare because very many foreign life-forms of foreign and distant worlds do not have the capacity for space travel, while others are not yet able to overcome the universal distances.

Allein schon darum ist es eine absolute Seltenheit, wenn Fremde von anderen Welten der Milchstrasse oder gar von anderen Galaxien zur Erde kommen.

Just for that reason alone it is an absolute rarity if foreigners from other worlds of the Milky Way or even from other galaxies come to Earth.

Sehr grosse Ausnahmen sind die drei fremden Gruppierungen und jene wenigen, welche dir bekannt sind und die sich unserer Föderation angeschlossen haben, weshalb wir sie natürlich nicht mehr als Fremde erachten.

The three foreign groups are very great exceptions, as are those few who are known to you and those who have joined our federation for which reason we naturally no longer think of them as foreigners.

Auch jene gehören heute zu unserer Föderation, deren Expeditionsschiff vor rund 100 Jahren über der Tunguska-Ebene zerstört wurde.

Also, today, those whose expedition ship was destroyed over the Tunguska plain around 100 years ago belong to our federation.

Billy Da sind im Fernsehen Sendungen, bei denen erklärt wird, dass viele Private, auch namhafte Wissenschaftler, mit grossen Antennen Botschaften gezielt ins Weltenall hinaussenden, um Ausserirdische auf die Erde und die Erdlinge aufmerksam zu machen.

Billy There are transmissions on the television in which is it explained that many private, and well-known, scientists send out messages, with big antennae, aimed into outer space to draw the attention of extraterrestrials to Earth and the Earthlings.

Was hältst du davon?

What do you think of that?

Ptaah Diese Unsinnigkeit ist mir ebenso bekannt wie das Unternehmen, das vor Jahrzehnten von US-Amerika aus gestartet wurde mit der goldenen, runden Platte, die viele Informationen über die Erde und die irdische Menschheit enthält, und zwar zum Zweck dessen, dass menschliche Exolebensformen auf die Erde und die Erdenmenschen aufmerksam werden sollen, wenn sie sich der Informationen bemächtigen können.

Ptaah I am just as familiar with this nonsense as I am about the undertaking which was started decades ago by US-America with the golden, round plaque which included much information about Earth and terrestrial humanity and indeed for the purpose of making human exo-life forms aware of the Earth and the Earth humans if they could take possession of the information.

Das Ganze ist nicht nur unsinnig, sondern auch gefährlich, denn sowohl durch die Informationsplatte wie auch durch die Botschaften, die wild in den Weltenraum hinausgesendet werden, kann sich allerhand Unerfreuliches ergeben.

The whole thing is not only nonsensical, rather also dangerous, because quite unpleasant things can occur as a result of the information plaque as well as the messages which are wantonly sent out into outer space.

Tatsache ist, dass nicht nur auf der Erde eine unfriedliche und kriegerische Menschheit existiert, sondern auch auf fremden Welten.

The fact is that that a non-peaceful and war-like humanity exists not only on the Earth, rather also on foreign worlds.

Und fangen solche bösgesinnte Lebensformen die irdischen Botschaften auf und sind dabei der Raumfahrt mächtig, dann kann das sehr böse Folgen für die Erde und die Erdenmenschheit haben.

And if such evil-intentioned life-forms capture the terrestrial messages and are capable of space travel besides, then that can have very evil consequences for the Earth and the Earth humanity.

Und das auch dann, wenn mehrere oder viele Jahrzehnte oder gar ein Jahrhundert oder mehr vergehen, bis eine solche unsinnige Botschaft aufgefangen und dann Raumschiffe zur Erde geschickt werden, um hier Unheil anzurichten, wobei gar die Menschheit ausgerottet werden könnte.

And that is also the case if several or many decades, or even a century or more pass until one such nonsensical message is captured and then space ships are sent to Earth to cause harm here, whereby the humanity could even be exterminated.

Der Raumfahrt mächtige Lebensformen gibt es in allen dafür geeigneten Galaxien, wobei diese zwar sehr weit verstreut sind, jedoch raumfahrtmässige Möglichkeiten geschaffen haben, so diverse von ihnen auch die notwendige Technik haben, um zur Erde zu gelangen.

In all suitable galaxies there are life-forms capable of travel, whereby these life-forms are scattered very far indeed but have produced space travel possibilities, so various of these also have the necessary technology in order to reach Earth.

Zeit spielt bei gewissen menschlichen raumfahrtfähigen Lebensformen keine Rolle, weil sie hohe Alter erreichen, folglich sie problemlos 40, 60, 100 oder mehr Jahre zur Erde unterwegs sein können, wenn ihnen das auch ihre Technik zulässt.

With certain human life-forms who are capable of space travel, time plays no role because they attain great ages, consequently they can be underway to the Earth 40, 60 or 100 years or more without problems if their technology also permits them to do that.

Und tatsächlich gibt es unter ihnen gefährliche Zeitgenossen, wie du jeweils sagst, die Zerstörung und Verderben bringen können, was sie in ihren Heimatsystemen auch tun.

And actually there are also dangerous contemporaries among them, as you always say, who can bring destruction and ruin which they also do in their home systems.

Billy Nicht erfreulich, aber die Knallfrösche, die Botschaften ins All hinausjagen, lassen sich nicht belehren, denn sie behaupten, dass allein die Radiosendungen und TV-Sendungen, die ständig ausgestrahlt werden, Aliens erreichen und sie auf die Erde aufmerksam machen würden.

Billy Not pleasant, but the jumping jacks who drive the messages out into outer space do not allow themselves to be taught because they assert that the radio transmissions and TV transmissions alone, which are constantly beamed out, would reach aliens and draw their attention to the Earth.

Demzufolge seien ihre Botschaften, die sie hinaussenden, nicht mehr und nicht weniger im gleichen Rahmen zu sehen.

Consequently their messages which they send out are to be regarded no more and no less in the same context.

Ptaah Das hat wohl in gewissem Masse seine Richtigkeit, doch gezielte Botschaften mit genauen Informationen in den Weltenraum hinauszusenden birgt grössere Gefahren in sich.

Ptaah That is probably correct to a certain degree yet to send out targeted messages into outer space with exact information conceals greater dangers in itself.
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Peter_brodowski
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hello matthew,
"So what? There are plenty of well-intentioned Catholics who do not.... "
this is most certainly about the tibetans, as you did not specify in your statement clearly that you were only refering to their leaders. that is disrespectfull and in poor judgement.



your confidence as you call it, is a result of your own pattern of thinking, not the lack of ability of others, to come to correct conclusions.

not mere speculation, it is the impression i get based on how you convey your thoughts. it's an interpritation of your ideas, and what i understand them to mean, and not what you try to make them appear to say.
"With regard to 'egotism', I suppose what you mean to say is 'confidence..."
no, you suppose incorrectly...
"The rest of your speculations are based on a false impression of what the 'ego' is"
well let me put it this way ,
i may not know an apple from a pear but i know a rotten piece of fruit when i see it. and by that i mean, i may not know the difference between egotistic and confident but i do know you like to fill this board up with your ideas (to put it respectfully).
quite frankly (and im sorry for dragging frank into this)i think you are here not to help but more to give value to yourself. i may be wrong but hey, that's life. i am here criticizing you by invitation, and perhaps these exchanges of thoughts may translate into some wisdom for someone.

i dont care about the protocols of zion, it means nothing to me.

"Remember that based upon superficial impressions one can come to enormously false conclusions."
that's a pill you should most certainly swallow, it will nourish you well.

and in the spirit of translations and honouring this area of the forum, i bring this challenge for anyone with a working knowledge of german...
i looked up the words "der heiz" i gather it means "the heat". my question is, what expressions can this be applied to...
"the heat of battle"
"the heat of the sun"
"the heat of ones breath"? etc.
basically, what can "der heiz" be applied to and what can it not be applied to?
thanks
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 131
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Markc,

Needlessly tedious

I suppose you mean "pedantic" or "punctillious" or something along those lines, and I would say "rigorous"--because rigor and exactness are so demanded in this global age.

Throws intellectualisms around like a weapon

As you know, since you responded to the posts, I have many times strongly suggested that persons become more consciously aware of their feelings and emotions, which constitute, respectively, Gedanken-Gefuehls-Intelligenz and Emotions-Intelligenz. In the first type, note that one must introspect, analyse, recognise and learn from one's feelings (thoughts-feelings-intelligence); in the second type, one must control the impulses which override one's thoughts and actions through logical thinking and meditation, etc.

When a person exhibits a real feeling, and is honest about their feeling, and thinks about this feeling, then sympathy may become openly discussed. When a person is dishonest about their feelings, excessively emotional-impulsive, and justifies false opinions based on emotional reactions, they should expect criticism of their incorrect manner of thinking and acting. Thinking is not an optional means of approaching problems--it is the only way. Even with regard to feelings, one must, as that talk therapy study I showed long ago demonstrates, think consciously about one's feelings in order to control them and use them. If you want to discuss feelings, or your feelings about things, perhaps you should be more honest about them. And if you want to discuss your thoughts, you must logically argue your points and not merely throw them out at the forum as subjective, unsupported opinions.

"The stupid person thinks he is as smart or smarter than the smart person, and therein lies his stupidity."
- Christopher Michael Langan, Theologist, Cosmologist, Philosopher.

Salome,

- Matthew

---


Jamesm,

Your website is very nice and a good resource for linking to information which is rather scattered throughout the net. Thank you for your efforts.

I thought Billy preferred Goblet of Truth and not Chalice of Truth?

Where did you read this? That would seem strange to me, given that "Kelch" and "Chalice" are both descendents of the Latin "CALIX", whereas "goblet" descends from an apparently unrelated Gaulish Celtic word.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Kingman
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Post Number: 371
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've come across this same type of circumstance a few years back at a different forum. What eventually became evident in that scenario was, an over zealous, pompous, and long winded person was found to be using a 'bot' to assist his ability to respond to the large volume of trite his postings created.

A person who worked on such software was able to post a message and elicit a response where he already had predicted what the reply would be from the suspected 'bot'. Seems the technology is getting better! Of course this can't be, right?

Humanism is a difficult reality technology will always be trying to improve.

Sometimes if you just add up the columns of, 'good', or, 'bad', or the. 'yes', or, 'no's', or even the volume of interest in a produced article, one can obtain a simple, yet valuable, clear insight of the article, compared to what an in-depth analyses concludes of the banality, and very quirky reality the article actually contained.


I guess there's just learning going on.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Michael
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Post Number: 629
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi James,

I hope that you and other UK FIGU peopole will be able to come to this:

http://unexplainedevents.co.uk
Michael Horn
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 351
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 03:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone,

Back in March when i was at the centre, while doing a correction session on one of Guidos books, Billy opened up the topic of what the actually translation is for the word Kelch. He was talking to someone, cant remember his name but he was the one that chose the word Chalice, Billy then commented to him that it is a wrong translation of the word, he said the reason is that the Chalice is a christian term used to describe the cup or what ever you want to call it that they use to drink wine. So he felt that it is inappropriate to use this word, and so said Goblet would be a better word to use.

I dont know if there are any updates since then.

Salome, Badr
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 73
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

See Badr's comment on where "Goblet" came from.

Michael, I wish I could come however as we say in our country, "I am skint" or rather I just cannot afford it. I live up in Scotland by the way.

I've had an email from someone who lives near London though, who is definately going though. I advised her to pick your brain dry!
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Corey
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Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dyson & Vivienne,

thank you again for the second Übersetzung, I wished to use that as a resource to compare my own reading of the same bulletin with your translation in my learning process your translations are a great resource to self correct my own reading!

Michael,

Ive begun reading your article in Sonder Bulletin 39, wish I could make it to the UK it would be nice to see you in action.

Badr,

if you don't mind me asking is Guido publishing another book (correction session) or translating an existing book?

Corey
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 352
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Corey,

The correction session was Guido's first book And Yet They Fly...

The newest book if you are interested next to Kelch der Wahrheit is a book by Bernadette Brand, from what I understood its about Nokodamion.

Salome, Badr
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Corey
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Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank you Badr and Salome,


Corey
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Michael
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Post Number: 630
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James,

Sorry you can't make it but I welcome your brain-picking representative. Hopefully, I will have sufficiently interesting material to make her picking worthwhile.
Michael Horn
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Trevor
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Post Number: 52
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James, you should advise your friend to write down any specific questions she may have had about the Meier case for Micheal to answer or else she may forget to ask them as this person did.
http://www.theyfly.com/localcopy/UFOs,%20Extraterrestrials%20and%20Prophecies.htm

I wish Micheal could visit down under. He is excellent discussing the Meier case.
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael I hope it will be a packed hotel. Can you tell us how the IUFO Conference 2008 went, please? I'm sure everyone is greatly interested to hear about this from you. Did Budd Hopkins have a mental breakdown?

Trevor I will do what you suggested. Good advice. I don't know her personally; her name is Maxine and she is a Meier-newbie. She recently emailed me for the first time asking a few questions.

Regards
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Edward
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Post Number: 1126
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi D & V......


Thank you BOTH...again, for some Excellent translations....:-)


Edward.
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Edward
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Post Number: 1127
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 07:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Badr.....


Concerning: Chalice and Goblet.

Yes, that is an Excellent example of extending to Proper translations.

Chalice being related to Christian description, as Goblet being a more Natural
term, and as common usage(Neutral). And that Billy, would rather it have NO
Christian Relation, to it. Which I would fully agree with.

As we can notice, that a word is just not....a word! We must indeed...NOT
forget the Origin...of the/a word, concerning. If not composed in the correct
context, it would indeed...not fit in it's place; and project the wrong/false
impressions/vibrations.

Better to keep it - Neutral - in writing(and True meaning), than...in relation
to a Distorted Cult Religion, as Christianity.


Edward.
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Edward. I agree, the word "chalice" produces visions of The Holy Grail in my mind, which of course does not exist in the popular sense.
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 09:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jamesm,

I would like someone to ask Billy what his precise reasoning is with regard to this word, such as Qabalah, etc., even though this transformation of the word's meaning would be the result of the fact that it was used by Christians over the centuries. Using some tentative figures for the English Qabalah which I calculated using various means, however, this may be enlightening:

CALIX = 12515 = 14 (Latin X=5) = Fisch

Chalice = 1127115 = 18 = 666 (English L = 7) = Christus, etc.

Goblet = 969751 = 37 (English O = 6) = Wassermann = 6233524255 = Kuender (also the 37th card of the Tarot is symbolically the Ace of Cups)

Kelch = 95511 = 21 = Wasser = Billy, etc.


(It is interesting that Goblet = Wasserman and CALIX = Fisch, methinks.)

Perhaps this evidences not only that my previous ideas about the English Qabalah may have been correct, but also that, in choosing words, we should always attend to the Qabalistic values of those words, as these may vary from the etymological meaning significantly, as is the case with many terms which have been distorted by Christianity, for example. But, the English language does express many things falsely, such as how the word people means "scavenger"/"carrion eater" in Qabalistic value, whereas it should mean "Volk"=folk.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Michael
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Post Number: 631
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jamesm,

I think that the event went fine, all things considered.

My presentation was not particularly kind to all of the phenomenon chasers, exopolitics crowd, etc. and so some people were upset...thank goodness.

You know something's wrong if everybody likes what you're doing, especially in the so-called "UFO community".

There is more nonsense, escapism and absolutely delusional, time-wasting bilge being pumped by the know-it-alls in the UFO field...in my humble opinion.

For those who of course object to my politically incorrect stance, I still await something even remotely substantial and significant that makes a real contribution to human evolution from all of the so-called "UFO cases".

Perhaps "await" is the wrong word and I should say "welcome" instead. Oh well, obviously I'm a bit opinionated.
Michael Horn
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Michael
Member

Post Number: 632
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.S. I didn't hear Hopkins' presentation myself but heard from others that he made a fool out of himself by criticizing the Meier case...and then being forced to admit he didn't really know much about it.

He didn't look very well and I wouldn't have felt right giving him a (very) hard time had I been in the room when he was making his presentation.
Michael Horn
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 353
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

please get back to topic
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Earthling
New member

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 08:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since this topic is translations, and translating costs money, and money seems to be an important and somewhat limiting issue for FIGU & the mission;

Why doesn't Billy have a glance at future stock pages and invest accordingly? Successful investing should be a walk in the park for him.
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 376
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi earthling in my opinion Billy cannot take advantage or profit from his powers/abilities because he remains absolutely loyal to his principles and directives, which are Creation`s principles too.He's 100% consistent, logical and stubborn with his principles.The most clear example is his late weak health.He did not try to take advantage of the plejaren miracolous medical science.He wanted same medical care as any other earth man.

For me such loyalty, consistency is a good thing because shows us his commitment, his mission is for the long run.If he keeps doing like this, success is guaranteed.Just a matter of time.Roughly 800 years, and if we're lucky, a bit less.

If he would "sell his soul to the devil" success could never be granted.

Best comparison: Doping among sportsmen.Doping grants you immediate success, but also deception, repudiation and falsehood on the long run.Not a good way, nice way to win fans or supporters.Remember Ben Johnson?
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 04:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hector,

I'm confused about something. You mentioned Billy did not take advantage of the Plejaren Medical Science. Are you referring to Billy's heart problem, or his near physical collapse after completing his latest book? He did receive assistance from Florena with a device which did restore his immune system. Without her help, it was doubtful he would have been able to survive.

Scott

If you need to respond, please lets take it to another section-Thanks
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Earthling
New member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Hector. imo, Billy should use all assets available to him. I'm not talking about getting greedy, gaining power over others; but money (and health) should not be an issue if it doesn't have to be. Make enough, so its not a limiting factor, so you don't have to put implicit pressure on your supporters, is all I'm suggesting. Those who can afford it, will offer financial support without request. The money will appear.

The same for his health. I don't see the point of making a virtue out of needless suffering.

Of course, this is all Billy's personal decision, or any individuals personal decision.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The same goes for spiritual teachings.
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Baselineplayer
Member

Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 06:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

I will develop some of the discussion between Hector and Scott in the Miscellaneous area under General Area/Non-FIGU Related topics.
Med Bästa Hälsningar / Mit Besten Grüssen / With Best Regards

/Baselineplayer
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Incredible
Member

Post Number: 155
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hehehehe...
Hey, if I have the power to fix my heart be sure that I fix it.

And if I have friends with the tecnology to implant a hand and fix my heart I tell them to fix my heart.

If I was billy I do that because the world need me, more time living in the world is equal to more books and a better spreading of the basic spiritual teachings.
"we born to die and we die to born"

"Dont take the life seriously, after all you wont go out alive from her"
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 146
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Billy said that Esperanto or "Interkosmisch" would most likely be the world-language in the future, or a descendent of one of these, or a similarly artificial language, I think he meant "Interlingua", since this is today the most common auxiliary language on Earth today.

If I remember, there was an Esperanto enthusiast on this forum a few years ago whose posts I came across. Maybe they should do translations into that language (however, since Interlingua and Esperanto are both extremely easy for Indo-European speakers to learn, perhaps we should all learn them, but German first so that one understands the spirit-teaching!).

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suppose I was wrong about Interlingua, as Esperanto is apparently, according to the latest statistics, the most widely spoken of the auxiliary languages. This, to me, is preferable to Interlingua, which I find is too limited a language; the same with Ido, which is oversimplified. The spirit-teaching/Geisteslehre is much easier to formulate in Esperanto, I find. It was also invented by a German (Samenhof), and possesses some of the advantageous qualities of German.

Due to its growing popularity, not without the help of world religions such as Baha'i, it seems that the spirit-teaching should be translated from German into Esperanto at some point.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1476
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I understand this correctly many of Billy's books in their original German contain the "code", which cannot be replicated in any other language. Why then or what would be the purpose of translating the spiritual teachings into another language?...this is illogical
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

The spirit-teaching should be translated into as many languages as possible, with the original German laid alongside the translated lines, just as in English. Translated into Esperanto, it would eventually reach a wide audience, while the original German would be within these translations, to be referred to when desired or needed.

Also, Esperanto would be quite easy to reform to match some of the spirit-teaching concepts quite closely, since words may be freely invented by combination in that language.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Carolynmoss
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Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would be more comfortable just writing a check and mailing it. I get nervous about "wiring money to a swiss bank account" -makes it seem less legitimate. Besides... wiring money is expensive and wasteful.
I am excited to have the opportunity to help. I will send what I can.

Cmoss,

You can also send Swiss Francs, or US Dollars.-Scott

cmoss
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

I think this should just be left as just another matthew deagle interpretation (like Geist = ghost)remember that Billy spoke about this in a future tense, perhaps when our (hopefully egoless) society might warrant such an intercosmic planetary lanquage but either way it seems only Billy (and perhaps FIGU) might know for sure however I don't think he relayed this information to us so we could pick it apart and fight over it which seems to me to be matthews unchecked overall intention in this matter. I personally agree with you on your code statment, and quote two points of the beautiful 34 written on page 20 of Sonder Bulletin 41 written by Christian Frehner which I have slowly read thouroughly several times.

33) Die Belehrung der Menschheit über die Werte der Geisteslehre und die damit verbundenen Erkenntnisse ist von grundlegender Wichtigkeit, denn solange die Menschen den Irrlehren der Religionen verfallen sind, wird es kaum möglich sein, dass in den einzelnen Ländern die richtigen und nachhaltigen Massnahmen ergriffen werden. Auch Frieden unter den Menschen und den Völkern wird nicht möglich sein, solange die Religionen die Menschen unselbständig und von sich bzw. ihren Göttern abhängig behalten.

34) Da die Geisteslehre-Schriften bewusst in deutscher Sprache verfasst sind, weil in keiner anderen irdischen Sprache alle Feinheiten derart präzise erklärt werden können, soll die deutsche Sprache zur allgemeingültigen Weltsprache erhoben werden, nebst der natüralich alle anderen bisherigen Sprachen weiterhin erhalten bleiben und gepflegt werden sollen.

and here is my mild interpretation of the two points from more of a (one day) burgenouning readers perspective then a translators:

33) the instruction of humankind about the words of spiritlessons would with it the connection knowledge from foundation importance, and for as long as the Humans then the irrational writings of religion have fallen, it would hardly be possible that in each Lands a mass undertaking of right and to halt would become taken up. Also peace under the Humans and People (citizens) would not become possible, so long as the religions of the humans were dependants bzw and from them the Gods were kept (in the hanging conciousness)

34) the spirit lessons writings concious in German speech is written, because in no different (other) earthly speech is can the fiendish sickness precisley be explained. Shall the German speech to the generally accepted world languages be raised, together of course all the (until now) different languages influence be halted/waited and become more cultured.

to really understand these two points one must really read all 34 of the points and the full article they are enclosed in. My interpretation self admittingly has errors and cannot do the original German words true justice. Furthermore I do not wish share my interpretation to debate or fight over FIGU writings because I am of the opinon that people should bend themselves to improve their German so the works can speak for themselves in their beauty, wisdom and truth from a correct personal interpretation. Something not always easy for us non native German speakers to do, but possible...

Im sure matthew will have a fieldday with my posting however I won't personally listen to someone who experiments with dogs "esp" because I do not beleive pets in any household form are good to be around and also being somewhat familiar with die Psyche, Einführung in die Meditation, and Meditation aus klarer Sicht I think it is overall contradictory for somewone who cites them to be searching for so much attention. And having some German skills having read matthews translation I must say I am in complete agreement with Bob that matthew creates misleading hybrids greater then seemingly all of us tend to do which can make it difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff...

I also speak out because I also noticed that many of the shyer, freewilled, and perhaps Logical students on this forum will not speak out or engage in discussions when matthew is posting because they do want want their formulating opinions and realizations mowed down or perhaps do not want to be drawn into the anger matthew is presumably trying to incite but rather just continue thinking and learning for themselves in silence and if they cannot yet read German I leave for them my interpretation.

salome Corey
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 1133
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 02:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All....

Well, I do not find it that surprising Billy mentioning - Esperanto(-like) -.

There have been a number of Si-Fi movies which have already incorporated such
language into the script of the concerning movies.

There have been Si-Fi and Script writers, whom have also had the/this idea,
that such language would/will be: the Language of the Future.

Very Logical point of view, they have. Very 'sync' with Billy!


Edward.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 1477
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 04:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

You still didn't answer my question concerning the "code"? It doesn't matter whether the German text is side by side, if a person does not read German, they will not receive the full benefit from the teachings.

Scott
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Adysor
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Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that I am grateful if some people translated the teachings in English because I would've never heard of Billy Meier since I am not that interested in the UFO matter since many are fakes.
Let's just say that because they are in English also they introduced me in the Meier material.
Adrian.
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,
Most,if not all of Billy's books contain the `code`. `The Goblet of Truth` will be translated into other languages, as no doubt others will be in the future. Ideally we should seek to gain the full benefit from any book, but some benefit is better than none. Also Billy has stated that even if a person does not understand German, the code still works if the text is read by oneself or another. I am translating Billy's writings for my own benefit with good results (so I believe-and despite the skeptics) using my own technique with electronic translator (with User Dictionary) dictionaries and logic. In an attempt to activate the `code` I have a `Text to Speech` program which gives good pronunciation (so I believe). Using this I can listen, read at the same time and learn the pronunciation. My one problem is that Billy states that the text must be read from start to finish `without error`-well nigh impossible for anyone. For example `Gesetz Der Liebe` pp20,21 is full of abbreviations-which I of course have written in full and in some common cases programmed into the reader. Then of course there are the printing errors found in most of the books.
We live in a real word where we differ in our abilities. A few will strive for perfection and make it, some wont make it but will still gain considerably from the effort made, others will make no effort and miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Of course it would be best to translate those books at first that will have the most benefit for the masses.
Regards, Charles.
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 357
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Charles,

That is true when attempt to read the German text or listening to it being read, will activate the code. Even if the words are not understood.

Like you, I used to think that the book has to be read from the beginning to the end to have an effect. But once I re-read the comment about the code that is in each German book, I noticed that what is said, that for the code to work the book had to be written from the beginning to the end without any mistakes. In my opinion printing mistakes or a missing letter here or there might not be a big problem otherwise the book wouldn’t have been printed if the code wouldn’t work.

Salome, Badr
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 647
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott ;

Like I mentioned before , the word "ghost" used instead of "spirit" , is a completely insincere effort to nudge the spirit teachings into religious fields . Quite illogical too , if you consider that in the context of this forum , is obvious in it's intent . However , outside of this forum , in it's own self-authority , which is easy to predicted an attempt of , reveals the motive of disinformation .It makes me think that the poster of that translation is somehow involved in publication ; paranormal , esoteric matters , a likelihood.

I cannot be dissuaded from my opinion .

Salome , MC
Mark Campbell
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 44
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Badr,
Your clarification is appreciated and what you write appeals to common sense. Some posts ago I posted some words that I was having trouble with, but no help was forthcoming. Anyway another couple of words:
1)KB1 p494 Geistschaftsform
57. The words and instructions of the Geistschaftsform of Petale ...
Now spirit-form might do, but how does the -schaft- alter it. I know that -schaft can be -ship or -cy.
2KB1 p453 Trugstimmen
..nur Trugbilder und Trugstimmen sind..
i.e. ..are only mirages and Trugstimmen..
At the moment I am tranlating C38 and an item of interest is the concept of `Realvision`used by Semjase and which had Billy stumped! (He could not find it in the dictionary!). I will put part of the conversation below. If it is too long, then reduce it or remove it.
Semjase
143. Du bist einfach unermüdlich, doch ich will deinem Wunsche entsprechen:
144. Eine Realvision bezeichnet eine bestimmte Form einer gelenkten Vision.
145. Es ist dies eine Visionsform, die von sehr vielen Intelligenzen beherrscht wird, so unter anderem auch von den Gizeh-Intelligenzen.
146. Durch diese beliebig hervorrufbaren und lenkbaren Visionen beeinflussen verschiedene Ausserirdische – und auch wir – Lebensformen, um ihnen auf diesem Wege bestimmte Eindrücke zu vermitteln, die ihnen selbst lehrreich sein und die sie durch Verbreitung auch andern zugänglich machen sollen, um auch die Umwelt zweckmässig zu beeinflussen.
143. You are simply untiring, still I want to comply with your wish:
144. A real-vision marks a certain form of steered vision.
145. It is this vision-form, that is mastered by very many intelligences, as among others also by the Gizeh-Intelligences.
146. Through these arbitrary inducible and steerable vision influences, various extraterrestrial - and also we - life-forms, in order to convey to them in this way certain impressions, that is instructive for them and that through dissemination they should also make others accessible, in order to also influence the people-around-them expediently.
147. Diese lenkbaren Visionen sind derart massiv realistisch, dass die beeinflusste Lebensform die Überzeugung erlangt, sie habe die Vision als Wirklichkeit erlebt.
148. Genau darum nennen wir das Realvision, weil sie so real wirkt.
149. Jedes durch diese Realvision durchlebte Erlebnis dauert dabei so lange, als es auch in der Wirklichkeit seine Zeit benötigen würde.
150. Solche Realvisionen dauern also nicht nur Sekunden oder Minuten, sondern sie dauern solange, wie die wirklichen Erlebnisse Zeit benötigen würden.
147. These steerable visions are so massively realistic, that the influenced life-form attains the conviction, that they have experienced the vision as reality.
148. Specifically therefore we call real-vision this, because it actually works like that.
149. Every experience lived through this real-vision thereby lasts for a long time, as it would also require its time also in reality.
150. Such real-visions therefore last not only seconds or minutes, but they last as long as, how the real experiences would require time.

Billy
Das ist ja phantastisch. Das bedeutet also, dass ein Mensch ein Erlebnis haben kann, das in Wirklichkeit überhaupt kein Erlebnis ist, sondern nur einer vorgegaukelten Vision entspringt, dass er diese Vision aber nicht von der Wirklichkeit zu unterscheiden vermag und das Scheinerlebnis dadurch als Wahrheit eines Erlebnisses betrachtet.
That is fantastic. This therefore means that a human being can have an experience, that is no experience in reality at all, but originates from only one make-believe vision, that he is not able to distinguish this vision from reality, however, and thereby he views the appearance-experience as the truth of an experience.
Semjase
151. Sicher, das entspricht der genauen Beschreibung.
151. Certainly, this corresponds to the exact description.
Billy
Aber was essen und trinken die Leute denn und – wenn sie ausser Haus lange Realvisionen haben, wo schlafen sie dann?
But, what then do the people eat and drink and - if they have long real-visions out of the house, where do they then sleep?
Semjase
166. Das ist sehr einfach:
167. Im Zustand der Realvision sind sie Herr über vielerlei bewusstseinsmässige Kräfte, die auch in ihrem Unterbewusstsein schlummern.
168. Diese bringen sie dann unterbewusst zur Anwendung in der Form, dass sie durch das Durst- und Hungergefühl Materie verdichten und genau jene ess- und trinkbaren Dinge verfestigen, die sie in ihren Realvisionen erleben.
169. Damit ernähren sie sich dann auch.
170. Es ist das derselbe Vorgang, wie er vor zweitausend Jahren von Jmmanuel vordemonstriert wurde, als er 250 Erdenmenschen (Überlieferung der 5000 ist falsch, es waren nur 250) nährte mit Brot, das er auf diese Art vermehrte.
171. Der Unterschied liegt nur darin, dass realvisionär Beeinflusste ihre Fähigkeiten unterbewusst in Anwendung bringen, während sie Jmmanuel bewusst zu erzeugen vermochte.
166. That is very simple:
167. In the condition of the real-vision they are master over various consciousness-related forces, that also slumber in their subconscious.
168. They then bring these subconsciously to the application of the form, that through this thirst- and hunger-feeling, matter condenses and exactly those edible and drinkable things solidify, that they experience in their real-visions.
169. They also then feed themselves with them.
170. It is that same process as it was demonstrated before by Jmmanuel two thousand years ago, when he nourished 250 earth-people (tradition of 5000 is false, it was only 250) with bread, that he multiplied in this way.
171. The difference lies only therein, that (through) real-visionary influences their abilities (were) brought subconsciously into application, while Jmmanuel was able to generate them consciously.
From this we can understand what power the G-I had over certain individuals and groups.
Charles.
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 360
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Charles,

Regarding to your query about “Geistschaftsform” I would simply translate it as for example collective-spiritforms. As we know that the Petale level is a We-Form rather than a single spiritform. Therefore, it needs to be addressed accordingly which is a group or collective spiritforms.

Hope this helps.

Salome, Badr
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Indi
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Post Number: 201
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Charles

you wrote:
2KB1 p453 Trugstimmen
..nur Trugbilder und Trugstimmen sind..
i.e. ..are only mirages and Trugstimmen..


My way of understanding this is Trugbilder being mirages or optical illusions, and Trugstimmen being auditory illusions

Real vision sounds like a trance like induced state, however, more than a simple hypnotic state as is known by us that is used by therapists etc..

in peace
Robjna
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 151
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

You still didn't answer my question concerning the "code"? It doesn't matter whether the German text is side by side, if a person does not read German, they will not receive the full benefit from the teachings.

Yes, you're correct about that, as Billy reminds at the beginning of all of his books with the disclaimer regarding the code. However, he does say that the code works regardless of whether the text is understood, so if a person does not understand German completely, but can pronounce it, and has an Esperanto, etc., translation nearby for semantic reference, this allows the conscious knowledge, as well as the subconscious impulses, to be transmitted to a wider audience.

Although only around 2-3 million people worldwide speak Esperanto, these persons are mostly rather educated, and they are spread wide throughout the world, so I would expect that such translations would make many persons aware of the spirit-teaching who are not aware of it at the moment.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robjna,
You are correct. I should have analysed the components:
Trug:illusion,deception
Bilder:picture
Stimmen:voice
SO:Trugbilder >picture-illusion=optical-illusion
Trugstimmen >voice-illusion=audio-illusion
Perhaps you could help me with words I posted earlier:
1)I believe that these words are in error as in Billy's books;my correction is in brackets: niedereren(niederen), Sokkel (Sockel), Geschehisse (Geschehnisse).
2)alldem:alledem=all that-is alldem valid, or is it an error?
3)verknipse:knipsen=to snap (snap photographs)-what is the function of ver- ?
4)kosmonaler:Something to do with the cosmos of course,but the meaning?
I know that you use electronic translators Robjna and I am therefore extending this post to include all on the forum.

Regards, Charles

Moderators and Others,

I would be interested to know of others on this forum who have their own electronic translator(s), what it is and what they think of it. This would be useful for me and maybe for others who would like to translate in such a way. To start the ball rolling I will give my experience.
ELECTRONIC TRANSLATORS:
Having obtained most of the available English translations, I started using the online translator at Google for translating the FIGU bulletins mid 06. Wanting to learn more, I ordered some of Billy's books and bought a GETrans, SYSTRAN Home Edition and an LEC Personal Edition. When my computer required a new motherboard under warranty (taking 5 months) I renovated my old computer and bought an LEC Professioal Edition in Nov 07.
LEC German Professional Ed 2007: US$299.99 This has an unlimited User Dictionary which is a must have-The Home Edition does not have a UD. Overall I am pleased with this translator. With the interface that I use, you can put the cursor over any word to give alternative words from the Main Dic or the UD and change the word if desired. A reverse translation can be made.
Entries: Main Dic-114,300, Business-16,388,Legal-7,039,Medical-32,799,Computer-11,288 Other specialist dicts are available.
There are some problems, but the Support is good and he has welcomed my feed-back and suggestions;also I will receive an updated version when alterations have been made. For entries into the UD, you can select noun & gender,verb,etc. as well as the Inflection Pattern, including multiple entries. You can over-ride the Main Dic to select a more appropriate word;although a freezeup can occur, I am told that this problem has been solved. Phrases can't be entered into the UD, but I have asked for this as a possibility.
SYSTRAN Home Ed: This is the same as you find online at Google, etc. It has a 200 word USD. What frustrated me was that it is computer specific and I could not use it on my old computer-I will reactivate it with my newer computer, since a second translation is useful for comparison.
GETrans v 1.7: US$25 226,000 words Not of much use as a translator, but it is useful as a dictionary and you can easily enter phrases. A free version is available.
The electronic translator is a useful tool for translating. With time it improves as the UD becomes larger (~600 words so far) and as one gains more skills in it's use. Although I am not language orientated, I enjoy the challenge whch includes hunting down the meanings of those elusive words.I would like to follow up later with dictionary info.
Thanks, Charles.
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Eric_drouin
Member

Post Number: 174
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello:

Regarding the question on future language, i encourage you to read carefully Billy`s response the response before starting on a wrong tangent.
Then consider this:
1 - The language to learn now in the 21st century is German.
2 - in the future, they will be an artificial language LIKE esperanto. ("Like" means without doubt there will a similar exercise as was done for esperanto but far far in the future).
3 - In the meantime, no point of hoping to stick to your "NEWSPEAK", and try to justify yourself.
4 - The study of spiritual material requires work, thinking, discipline : the same qualities required to learn German. Someone that have the will, discipline, effort, ... to learn German, will also be able to learn Billy material though hard and have the discipline to do concentration exercise and mediation and maintain them over time. If the information is spoonfed to non-gernan speaker (this includes using a translator, a big mistake i think) is this doing a benefit to them?
Billy, FIGU have figured it out already.
FIGU-JAPAN apparently too,they have done a lot of translations themselves though their own effort if you check on FIGU-JAPAN site, quite embarrasssing for a a lot of us. Dyson and Vivienne figured it out too, they had the courage to talk about it and admit that their mother tongue is just inedequate (they convinced me to start learning german b.t.w. : i am grateful to them)
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Eric_drouin,
You dont give your name, hence the above reference. I dont know if you are replying in particular to any of the preceding posts or if you are simply making a statement. However, I would like to comment on what you have written.
I believe that Billy has written that German will be the common language of the distant future. As for an `artificial language`, I think that is a fantasy. Your statement 3 is `nonsense`(Papperlapapp) as Billy would say, but I would welcome an intelligible expansion of what you mean by that statement-it's got me whacked!Why would I want to justify myself to anyone? I have given up on ego-tripping.As a retired physic's teacher I know that any study requires work, etc.,etc.. It is not enough to read and learn-`book learning` as Billy would say. If we understand the concepts contained in the writing, then we have gained knowledge. The language bridges the gap between two minds.To say that using a translator is being spoonfed is rubbish and in saying this you show that you have no idea of what you are talking about;it's not a matter of pressing a button and it's done!
Perhaps with your knowledge of German you could help me with the difficult German words which I included in the above post. As for myself, I am aware of the knowledge which I am gaining through my own efforts and I am doing this on a daily basis. You may very well be a young buck who has a lifetime in which to learn German and reap the rewards of doing so. If I was to channel my efforts in trying to achieve a sufficient competence in the language, such that I could read and gain a high level of understanding, then I will have `fallen off my perch` long before I gained any real satisfaction.
Furthermore, a prerequisite in reaching a satisfactory level of competence in any language, is to also have a good command of one's mother tongue, which may not be without fault, but it should not be treated with disdain either.
Lebe wohl, Charles.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 152
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_drouin,

Newspeak is Standard Plebian English, in which several words have merged into single definitions (synonyms) which had previously had various meanings, in which words are consistently and increasingly used incorrectly, and in which useful words from rather recent varieties of literary English are being eliminated or pushed out of the language, e.g. the word 'ghost' to which so many on this forum programmedly/illogically react, while the first listed Merriam-Webster's definition of the word from just 1961 is concurrent with the meaning of the word "Geist" to a tee.

English also technically does allow word-combinations much the way that German does, although this facility is hardly used to its fullest in contemporary parlance.

As for Esperanto and other such auxiliary languages: surely the popular ones of today will influence those of tomorrow.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 50
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,
Your input above is welcome.

Eric_drouin
In light of the above info about Newspeak, I think that you are somewhat astray in you statement. However, I would like to consider something more positive.

Badr,
Thanks for your help with “Geistschaftsform”.

Moderator,
Hopefully the following resource will be of value to some forum members-especially those just starting to learn German and to translate.
DICTIONARIES: I use all of the dictionaries below. Even the simplest one at times may have a word not found in a more sophisticated dictionary. I am seldom stumped by a word, but when I can't find a word, online dicts are of little help; often a search in Google can give helpful clues.
FREE: Downloadable.
1)LingoPad v 2.6[2008]: 161,243 keywords (E 88,540);352,619 refs(E 384,600)
2)QuickDic v 7.1[2007]: ~280,000 terms (E ~280,000)
3)FreeLang v 2.7.2[2007]: 173,925 words (E128,707)
BOUGHT: DVD's. P&P international from the US can be expensive.
1)Wahrig Deutsches Wörterbuch[2003 Ed]: 250,000 ref's,sample applications & idioms. US$45.90
2)DUDEN Deutsches Universalwörterbuch[2007 Ed] 500,000 sample applications,etc.;150,000 ref's & idioms. ~12,000 keywords are read with the correct pronunciation. US$47.18
3)DUDEN Großwörterbuch Englisch[2005 Ed]: 470,000 trans;300,000 ref's & idioms. US$53.93
Better to buy this than the Popup version & the book.*2) & 3) are run as one program & other German resources can be added.
4)Muret-Sanders Legend[1902 Ed]: 400,000 trans. US$70 total for 4) & 5)
5)Köhler Classic[1909 Ed]: 200,000 trans (G & E)
6)GETrans: 226,000 words. US$25 A translator used as a dict.
7)Oxford-Duden German Popup Dictionary[2002 Ed]: 250,000 trans;150,000 words (G & E)US$9.95
*1),2),3) Supplier-International Book Import Service [Lynchburg TN] www.IBIService.com
*4),5),6) Can be bought through the GETrans website. Posted from/in OZ.
BOOKS:
1)Oxford DUDEN German Dictionary*Includes DVD RealSpeak-SpeakGerman: Reads & speaks up to 500 characters. The same entries are in DVD 3. There is extra info in boxes.
2)Collins German Dictionary-Complete & Unabridged: 320,000 entries, 500,000 translations.
Note:1)The 3 free dics & GETrans have User Dics. It is easy and more convenient to enter words in Freelang & GETrans-phrases can also be entered. The latter has accessible text files for User words & phrases. 2) I have speeded up searches in Collins by putting scanned images into alphabetical folders. Each page image is named with the first & last word of that page. Muret-Sanders & Köhler have a search program which takes you to the page-I dont know how to do this for Collins.

Charles.
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 362
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Matthew,

Why does anyone disagreeing with you automatically mean that he or she are reacting „programmedly/illogically”?

If you came up to me and said “Ich habe ein Geist Gesehen” I would translate it as “I have seen a Ghost”

Generally speaking Geist can also mean Ghost, but in the context of the FIGU material it isn’t, it is referring to the spirit. If you ask me what the first thing that comes into my head when you say Ghost I would say the fluidal forces that manifest itself in such a way as to be seen by human beings. But when you ask about the spirit I would think of it as the living spirit or energy of life be it flora, fauna or human. If you see it another way then that is your choice, and shouldn’t be imposed on others.

So where did you get the certainty of that Geist in the FIGU material is actually Ghost and not Spirit. Isn’t it from another book or person that gave his opinion of what it should be translated to? Or is it just your professional opinion without any sources?

Salome, Badr
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Incredible
Member

Post Number: 163
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spirit, ghost, fluidal force...
For me all of those are the same.
"we born to die and we die to born"

"Dont take the life seriously, after all you wont go out alive from her"
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Badr,

The Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary, which is actually a descriptive as opposed to prescriptive dictionary, in many respects, gives:

"1. The life principle or vital spark : the soul regarded as the seat of life or intelligence." (p. 954)

Is that not precisely, essentially, what "Geist" is?

Also, if I said "Ich sah einen Geist", of course I would mean "Ich sah ein Gespenst" or "Es erschien mir ein Trugbild/Phantom." or something like that; namely, because by definition one cannot see "den Geist"/the ghost (but one can sense, namely empfinden, the ghost), since the ghost is of spiritual matter which does not radiate in the visible spectrum; furthermore, the ghost is quite small, but its effects, for instance the spirit (Qi/Ching/Odem/Lebensenergie/etc.), are visible.

Salome,

- Matthew

Kiwilove,

You may want to look more deeply into the meanings of the words "Trug" and "Bild", respectively. "Trug"=trick, deception; Bild=image, reflection of being as opposed to "Form"=form=outline. Trugstimme = similar, but note that Stimme=voice -> stimmig = consistent/harmonious/logical.

Geistschaft=ghostship= "the state of being a ghost" (Webster's Third New International Dictionary, p. 955)

Form = separated by a boundary

Geistschaftsform = ghostshipform = distinct state of ghosthood, within the ghostdom (geistigen Bereiche).

Salome,

- Matthew
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 203
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a previous post in reply to Charles about Real vision I said:

Real vision sounds like a trance like induced state, however, more than a simple hypnotic state as is known by us that is used by therapists etc..

I have since discovered that there is a practice called 'telenosis' which would seem to fit the description mentioned by Charles (#44)

Robjna
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 204
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Incredible

They are not the same!

What each of these things are, is described in the material.

What things mean in the world in general, based on definitions found in a myriad of dictionaries, is not the same as the meanings Billy has clearly classified/defined in his writings.

so, is you wish to understand Billy's material, it is wise to learn his meanings.

Why is this so hard for some?

Robjna
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 04:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes the people that write the dictionaries are not involved with FIGU (or Billy).
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 363
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

Why don't you do us a favour or at least me. Since you have such a big problem with this word, why not contact FIGU and ask them why they made such a big mistake for all this time. And ask them to explain their position. Post the correspondence on the forum so we could see what is their stance on it. As our opinions are not that important in such a context especially that no one except for you seems to have a problem with it.

Otherwise, I don't see a point in taking this further.

Salome, Badr
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 154
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salome, Badr

It is clear why FIGU has decided to use a number of erroneous terms for the English translations: because they wish to communicate using the terms generally employed by today's average English speaker. However, today's average English speaker uses many words very incorrectly, and these are not concordant with either the primary definitions of these terms, or with the actual meanings of the terms in terms of Qabalah and etymology, etc.

FIGU can use whichever terms they like, but if the ghostly teaching is really to be expressed properly/intelligibly in English, the proper terms must be used. How can a person really intellectually grasp something deeply when the words and maths they use are not themselves correctly and connectively expressive? How can a person know that the ghost is the vital spark, when they use the word 'spirit'=breath of life=vital aspiration=Odem=Atem des Lebens, etc.? How can a person know what intelligence is when they do not look closely into the word and see inter-lesen = collecting/discerning/reading, etc.?

The languages we use, both 'natural' and 'formal', are of utmost importance to the effectiveness of 'Verstand'.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Mehraein62
Member

Post Number: 159
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

to All friends

I think if FIGU can make a dictionary that specially explains the difficult terms and words by both English and German will be very useful for every one although it will be very hard task.
Salome
M45
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 52
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 11:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,
You're joking of course and I am not amused. In New Zealand we would describe your poor-taste joke in a down to earth way.Maybe you've been on the turps and you are having ghost-like visions. You write:
Geistschaftsform = ghostshipform = distinct state of ghosthood, within the ghostdom (geistigen Bereiche).
The text in question is (My post 44):
KB1 p494 57. The words and instructions of the Geistschaftsform of Petale ...
Replacing this with your translation:
The words and instructions of the ghostshipform of Petale ...

The other problem has been solved, thanks to Robjna:KB1 p453
..nur Trugbilder und Trugstimmen sind..
..only optical-illusions and audio-illusions...

Incredible,
How can a force be a ghost. Ever seen a ghost pushing a wheelbarrow? And a spirit is either within a material body, or in the hereafter.

Live well,
Charles
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Kiwiseeker
Member

Post Number: 53
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Extension of my Last Post,
Contact 38-Semjase 57:
Die Worte und Belehrungen der Geistschaftsform Petale liessen ihn in die Irre gehen, denn er wollte die Wahrheit nicht anerkennen.
57. The words and instructions of the spirit-creationform Petale made him go insane, because he didn't want to acknowledge the truth.
Not perfect, but closer to the truth-which is what we all seek.
Charles
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Hector
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Post Number: 378
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 05:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have read about 60% of all Figu books and booklets in english and german, and i have never seen a connection between Geist and ghost.The word ghost implies way too many negative connections.People relate ghosts to fear, fantasy and comic situations.I swear you that doesn't help to spread the truth...

The word ghost would be better related to "fluidalkräfte", fluidal forces in english, but never to Geist.Otherwise, Figu would use the word as translation for Geist.

If you want to imagine how a pure spirit form looks like, use Billy's metaphor in OM: He calls Arahat Athersata "Die Flammenden Wächter" ( the flaming centinels/guardians).
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Badr
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Post Number: 364
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 07:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

Why not start to think of the bigger picture, and what the advantages there are from having a unified FIGU translation official or unofficial but of course authorized, and what it would be like when there isn’t. So would you finance the publishing of a “Matthew” version of the TJ for example? So it conforms with your ideals?

Seems like a déjà vu or is it only me :-)

Unless FIGU approves the use of Ghost for describing the Geist, then I will consider your translations containing things like Ghostly Teachings and so on as NON-FIGU Related, and therefore not approved on the forum. Because in my opinion it will cause a lot of confusion in the long run especially for newcomers.
I will consider this issue as closed, unless FIGU takes a stand on your idea or view.

Salome, Badr
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Edward
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Post Number: 1138
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All....

One can take this for example, perhaps: 'Krank im Geist', which can be 'ill in
Mind' or 'ill in Spirit', just depends in which context One would utilize the
word Geist, as you can see.

The same applications are utilized in Dutch.

One can surely not say: 'ill in Ghost', not?


Edward.
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 367
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 06:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Matthew,

As you seem to have a problem with FIGU, and probably don’t care much about them and their opinions, I guess I don't blame you since you haven't met them. I have taken the step to resolve this issue for at least the forum members that have doubts, and sent an email to Christian Frehner. This was his reply...

---

Bezüglich dem Begriff "Geist", wie der in der Geisteslehre verwendet wird, ist "spirit" die richtige Übersetzung.

Mit "ghost" wird das Wort "Gespenst" übersetzt. Ein Gespenst kann einerseits ein eingebildetes Wesen sein (z.B. eine Illusion, usw.), oder eine sichtbar gewordene Fluidalkraft, usw. Das Wort hat aber sicher nichts zu tun mit dem Geist und der Geistform.


With regard to the concept "Geist", the way it is used in the Spirit Teachings, the correct translation is "spirit”.

With "ghost" the word "Gespenst" is the translation. A ghost can be on one hand an imaginary being (e.g., an illusion, etc.), or a Fluidalforce that has become visible, etc. The word “ghost” has indeed nothing to do with the spirit ” Geist” and the spirit form ” Geistform”.

---

As I mentioned previously any text that includes Ghost as a translation to Geist will not be approved. Simply because this is the FIGU forum and the choices of FIGU will be accepted, if seen that it is logic ofcourse.
To conclude this issue, it is clear that FIGU has chosen spirit as the translation for Geist. Enough thoughts and opinions have been shared and unfortunately we couldn’t agree or resolve it between each other. And to continue talking about it would be useless.

PS: Edwards post slipped through and was approved by mistake.

Salome, Badr
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Redbeard
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 06:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This may have come up in previous postings, but I was wondering with the P's incredible technology and abilities to learn languages in such a short time couldn't they have used it on billy to speed teach him all the major earth languages? Translation in that case for Billy would be easy. Maybe their technology only works for speaking it.???
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Adityasonakia
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Post Number: 234
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 07:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Redbeard,

Well they didnt have time to teach him any new language. German is already a language which has meanings which English and others don't. Even if they would teach him a language, it would a waste of time, as they have the mission to go on with.

As for the translation, that's our headache. We have to do it ourselves. They always give work which we are capable to do to us. They want us to learn and experience fast, which is very caring i would say.

Saalome
Aditya
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 155
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Badr and Redbeard,

It is also the case that Billy's writings cannot be translated adequately into the parlance (Sprachgebrauch) of any terrestrial language other than High-German and some Swiss-German dialects (borrowing High-German terms, presumably); however, his written teachings can be half-adequately translated into modified forms of some of the languages of the world (e.g. English, Sanskrit, Latin, and traditional Chinese characters), although not with the same effect as written in German. Also, such translations modify the word-usage to such a degree that these translations are difficult to interpret (deuten) for most speakers of these languages, because the respective words or word-compositions are either non-existent in the common usage, or used differently/incorrectly.

Perhaps if there were, for instance in English, two separate lines of translation following the original German in some translated texts, this would improve overall readability and understanding/deep semantics simultaneously. Instead of trying to compromise the two at once, or arguing over whether a descriptive or prescriptive lexicography is required (a debate which has gone on endlessly thusfar in other circles, too), it could be that we would find the best success by writing two translations side-by-side. That is, I suggest that, rather than confuse the average reader or casual novice to the teachings, or garble the original German text by oversimplifying it throughout, it may be best to always require that whoever decides to use a more prescriptive language while writing FIGu translations, must use the standard parlance approved FIGU terms in a following line of translation, so that, in effect, two translations are made: one into the standard speech, and another into the translator's prescriptive interpretation of the actual German words.

This would not require that the prescriptive translation be particularly intelligible to standard speakers without a dictionary or some understanding of Latin, etc., but it would require that a regular-style translation, of the sort already produced en masse by FIGU, also be created.

What do you think, Badr? Would you or someone in FIGU with whom you have contact approve this kind of translation, in which, e.g. the original German word-compositions are preserved in one line, and in the next translated to common English?

Salome,

- Matthew

P.S. I do not have any particular problems with FIGU. I of course appreciate any efforts of the FIGU, including the much-needed translations, such as of "Kelch der Wahrheit", which will hopefully encourage at least some non-Germanics to learn High-German and study the teachings in depth. As Billy has stated before, a correction within the common English parlance is unmanageable for anyone, let alone a non-native speaker of English, so it is best that the usual translations go by the common uses of the terms, even if they are incorrect or misleadingly oversimplifying (when working with the common English vocabulary, which is indeed misleadingly oversimplifying and often incorrect, this is inevitable).
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Badr
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Post Number: 371
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 05:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew,

I thought this issue was closed. If you want to suggest something like this might as well send it directly to FIGU because that will be approved by the core group, and if they think it’s something important they will pay attention and get back to you. But if they don’t reply, it should be a clear answer.

http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/kontakt

Salome, Badr
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 769
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

Michael Horn asked us about the Dogon people after there was something about that on this forum.

There was nothing in our notes or memories about the Dogon, but Vivienne found something in contact 311 after all.

It’s not much, but for your interest…

Cheers!
Dyson


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[The below excerpt from the 311th contact. Thursday, 13th September 2001, p.334 Plejadisch-Plejarische Kontaktberichte, Gespräche, Block 8, is an authorised unofficial translation by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine]


Billy ... Hier eine andere Frage: Bei den Sirianern, die damals Sfath ihr birnenförmiges Raumschiff schenkten, handelte es sich um ein Volk, das hier auf der Erde <nommo> genannt wird, und gehörten die Schenkenden zu den Genmanipulatoren?

Billy … - Here is another question. Regarding the Sirians who at that time presented Sfath with their pear-shaped space ship: did that concern a people who, here on the Earth, is called “Nommo”, and did those who provided the gift belong to the genetic manipulators?

Ptaah
9.Ein Volk namens <nommo> ist uns unbekannt, und zwar sowohl in unserem wie auch in eurem Raum-Zeit- Gefüge.

Ptaah
9. A people called “Nommo” is unknown to us, and indeed in our space-time configuration as well as in yours.

10. Mein Vater Sfath erhielt sein Fluggerät von einem sirianischen Volk geschenkt, das Samanet genannt wird.

10. My father Sfath received his flying device as a gift from a Sirian people who are called Samanet.

Billy Hat dieses Volk etwas mit den Genmanipulatoren zu tun?

Billy Did these people have something to do with the genetic manipulators?

Ptaah
11. Nein, das ist nicht der Fall.

Ptaah
11. No, that is not the case.

12. Bei den Samanetern handelt es sich um ein Volk, das in einem Raum-Zeit-Gefüge lebt, das nicht identisch ist mit dem, wo die Genmanipulatoren beheimatet sind.

12.With the Samanet people it deals with a people who live in a space-time configuration which is not identical with that in which the genetic manipulators live.

Billy Handelt es sich denn um unser Raum-Zeit-Gefüge?

Billy Does it deal then with our space-time configuration?

Ptaah
13. Nein, das ist nicht der Fall.

Ptaah
13. No, that is not the case.

Billy Dann sprach 1976 Semjase, deine Tochter, auch nicht von zwei Sonnensystemen des Planeten Sirius in unserem Raum-Zeit-Gefüge, sondern von einem völlig anderen?

Billy Then, in 1976 Semjase, your daughter, also did not speak of two solar systems of the planets of Sirius in our space time configuration, rather of a completely different one?

Ptaah
14. Gewiss.

Ptaah
14. Certainly.

15. Wir sprechen immer nur von den in eurem Raum-Zeit-Gefüge euch bekannten Sternbildern, um richtungsmässig zu weisen, von wo ungefähr die Rede ist in bezug auf die von uns angesprochenen Raum-Zeit-Gefüge.

15. We always only speak of the constellations known to you in your space-time configuration in order to show, in terms of direction, approximately what the talk is about in regard to the space-time configuration spoken about by us.

Billy Aha, und wie steht es denn damit hinsichtlich bewohnter Systeme in unserem Raum-Zeit-Gefüge?

Billy Aha, and how does it stand then with that in regard to inhabited systems in our space-time configuration?

Ptaah
16. Dann sprechen wir auch nicht von einem anderen Raum-Zeit-Gefüge oder von anderen Dimensionen.

Ptaah
16. Then we also do not speak of another space-time configuration or of other dimensions.

Billy Klar. Verstanden. – Die Genmanipulierten, die haben auch nichts mit den Samanet zu tun, nehme ich an?

Billy That’s clear. Understood. – I assume that those who were genetically manipulated also have nothing to do with the Samanet?

Ptaah
17. Das entspricht dem, was gegeben ist.

Ptaah
17. That corresponds to the situation.

18. Die Samanet sind ganz normale und nicht genmanipulierte Menschen.

18. The Samanet are quite normal humans who have not been genetically manipulated.

Billy Die Genmanipulierten, die zusammen mit den Flüchtlingen aus den Reihen der Genmanipulatoren und also mit den Sympathisanten der Genmanipulierten ins SOL- System kamen, waren ja Nachkommen der Genmanipulierten und der Genmanipulatoren, oder?

Billy Those who were genetically manipulated, who came into the solar system together with the refugees from the ranks of the genetic manipulators, and therefore with the sympathisers of the genetically manipulated ones, were the descendants of those who had been genetically manipulated as well as descendents of those who did the genetic manipulations, or?

Ptaah
19. Das ist richtig.

Ptaah
19. That is correct.

20. Die genmanipulierten Nachkommen entstammten der achten Generation, wie auch die Nachkommen der Genmanipulatoren.

20. The genetically manipulated descendents were descended from the eigth generation, as were the descendents of the genetic manipulators.

Billy Auch alles klar. Jetzt möchte ich dich nach der Grabhöhle Jmmanuels fragen. …

Billy That’s all clear. Now I want to ask you about Jmmanuel’s burial cave. …

////////////////////////////////////////

For more information about the genetic manipulated/manipulators referred to above, please see http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/meier.contact251.htm
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 156
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If we are to at least use terms existing in the philosophical parlance which correspond truly to the concepts in the spirit-teaching, we should note that the Greek word 'episteme' (also an English word) conveys the meaning of 'Verstand' much better than the word 'understanding', which tends to correspond more to 'Verstaendnis' or 'Verstaendigung' than 'Verstand' itself. Also, it is possible that a borrowing from the Latin 'perquest', or simply 'intellectual perception', or possibly the French-borrowed word 'entente' would convey 'Vernunft' better than the word 'reason', which actually means 'Ratio', or 'Vernunft und Verstand' together.

At the very least, looking into the meaning of these words would aid a person in their understanding of these concepts.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems I forgot to include what seems to be the first sophisticated conception in Europe of 'Vernunft', namely 'noesis', a Greek word which has been borrowed into the English.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 601
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dyson

Thanks so much for the translation

I am keen to know more about Jmmanuel's burial cave, could you please continue with the translation?

Salome

Savio
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 770
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Savio,

My pleasure. :-)

Sadly, Jmmanuel's burial cave is very low on our mental to-do list of German to ENGLISH translations, as there are far more important things (like the correction details of the carbon 14 dating errors, etc.) which take a much higher priority. We also have some more spiritual stuff in the works.

"Blessed is he who has learnt to wait joyously" (OM)

Cheers!
Dyson
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 602
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 05:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dyson and Vivienne

Thank you all the same

Always longing for the translations from both of you.

"Blessed are those who perform the FIGU translations"

Cheers!

Savio
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gaiaguys, what happened to your website at http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/meier.whatsnew.htm? Is it temporarily down or is something more nefarious going on?
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Adysor
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Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What happened to all of www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier.htm really?

It was up not long ago...
Adrian.
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Gaiaguysnet
Member

Post Number: 771
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Savio,

Don't you mean, "Blessed are those who perform the FIGU translations CORRECTLY"? :-)

Dear Earthling,

Don't ask me. :-/ Ask our friend James Moore.

Salome
Dyson
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Jamesm
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Post Number: 81
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/ has now become http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/

By the way I host a copy of gaiaguys website from just before it went down last year. gaiaguys have no current plans to revive their website as far as I know so please do not expect updates to http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.whatsnew.htm in the near future.

Kind Regards

James
James G. T. Moore
Webmaster www.futureofmankind.co.uk
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Indi
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Post Number: 207
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you can find the answer to that in the archives of this forum

Robjna
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Marksmanr
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Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Earthling; the site is not down, it is just that the link has changed. It is now:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/gaiaguys/meier.whatsnew.htm

Every page on the futureofmankind.co.uk website now has a "/Billy_Meier" instead of "/meier" now.
Reece Stiller
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Adityasonakia
Member

Post Number: 238
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Adysor,

Read this, from contact 457:

Billy

Oh, you are already here, my greetings and welcome, dear friend, have you been waiting for long?

Ptaah

My greetings to you too, Eduard, my friend. No, I only arrived a few minutes ago. And before you ask about what you instructed Florena for me to do regarding Australia respectively the website of Vivienne/Dyson: After all my clarifications that I carried out I must explain that everything by the two regarding their website it absolutely counterproductive as well as unobjective and shows a certain fanaticism. The website should be deleted immediately, which would rather serve the truth as well as the two authors. The whole, as it is set up, cannot serve the purpose, because the attacks have not been kept neutral and in addition they are only built up on claims, which cannot be proven by the two authors, because the ”evidence“ put forward by them is unobjective and extremely poor, besides that they are personally aggressive towards the sect. A fact that cannot be denied and which can bring forth great harm to both of them. All of it is an extremely thoughtless matter and on top of it against good reason, because when such aggressions are practiced openly towards a sect or against individual persons, then on your Earth this goes against the right to live one’s own life, which must be adhered to, even if the accusations were true, which in this case however cannot be proven by Vivienne/Dyson; therefore they are being held accountable by the sect via the jurisdiction. If open or private attacks occur against people or sects etc., then all truthful facts may well be openly named, however under the omission of any names, because as soon as they are named, a personal attack is happening. Criminals, law-breakers, liars and con men/women etc. may, against the sense of truth and justice, not as such be named openly on your earth, and in fact not even then when their guilt has been proven or is otherwise obvious, because this is forbidden and made punishable through illogical and justice-adverse laws, through which criminals, law-breakers, liars and con men/women etc. are being protected in their actions by false justice and false laws. But what Vivienne/Dyson produced with their website are pure suspicions which they fanatically fight for and which they only devise from the propaganda material, without having real evidence that what they so vehemently and fanatically claim and openly publish is in accordance with the reality. Therefore in this case it must be spoken of libelling, because assumptions are not equal to the truth, but in this case (they equal) suspicion, which corresponds with libelling, which they are for as long as the opposite cannot be proven publicly, respectively, that the accusations are accurate. Thus Vivienne/Dyson are not only guilty of suspicion, but also of libelling, unless that they can prove their claims without doubt, by observing those machinations, that they accuse the sect of, in the presence of witnesses. And what is to be advised now I can say in the following manner: Vivienne/Dyson should immediately take down their website and dissolve it definitely and distance themselves from any further action in regards to their accusations, because this alone would be right, not what they are doing with their website. Those two got fanatically carried away under the wrong understanding of what is right, from which they can never emerge as victors if they cannot verify their claims with strong evidence, which must be accepted even by a court. And that they end their actions as soon as possible corresponds by itself with healthy reason.

Billy

This is extensive and clear, but I have already advised both of them of the same, but without success, because they are not teachable and they stubbornly insist that they are in the right, even though this is not the case, which also follows from your explanation. But I will phone Elisabeth today and fax through your words, so that she can email it to both of them in Australia. The unreasonableness that goes out from both of them after all my interventions via Elisabeth doesn’t give me great expectations that the two will find reason.

Ptaah

Then they will have to walk the path of harm.

Billy

We say to that: Whoever doesn’t want to listen, must feel it.

Ptaah

A true word which will also be proven in this case, if the two are not teachable and do not walk the path of righteousness. And that they are on the side of fallibility is beyond doubt.

Billy

That is the case without doubt.


I hope, now you know. :-)

Salome
Aditya
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Earthling
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Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thank everyone, very much for their help.
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Mike_hooten
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Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

re: Tibet
Hi All,
Noticed the Tibet comments from Mr Meier, Ptaah in May discussed here.
I have studied several histories of Tibet, in particular the autobiography of the brother of the Dalai Llama. At the time i read it i wasnt really impressed with the Charitable mentality of the Brother. He made a point of talking about how the Stars insured HIS safety in the exodus, not everyone elses. And that he was "fortunate" in his reincarnation into higher political circles. I guess that meant that he wouldnt miss any meals.
Also it was clear from both KUNDUN and SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET that foreigners were not welcome in the country in the 40's. I just dont understand how you can be isolationist and then when the giant takes you over, now you play victim and want help from the same foreigners.
Lately, hearing the Dalai Llama talking about sharing power with China is so ridiculous. The Dalai Llama is a THEOCRACY. China is a DEMOCRACY. Who is he trying to kid? About two years ago i picked up the phone and chewed out a Tibetan monk about this who was asking for money. He changed his tune and just said he wanted to help his hungry people. I accept that.
I didnt talk about it at the time because Mr Meier had said he liked Bhuddism. Glad to see Mr Meir can discriminate Buddism vs Theocracy.

Best wishes to all.

(moderator please post in proper place- thanks)

Mike it is not up to the Moderators to post in the proper place!-Scott
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Norm
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Post Number: 1186
Registered: 02-2000
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike H, China is Communist.
My Website
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 772
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear friends!

Long time no post! We are both happy & healthy, as ever. More than usual, actually! :-)

We are now slowly getting back up to speed after migrating to Tasmania. Internet access is quite limited, so we cannot reply to forum comments/questions, etc.

We hope you all enjoy the below.

Salome & cheers!
Dyson (& Vivienne)


The following is an unofficial translation (by Vivienne Legg and Dyson Devine) of three excerpts from Billy Meier’s book Ein Quentchen Wissen, Sinn und Weisheit (A Bit of Knowledge, Sense and Wisdom).



Translated August 26th, 2008



Traurigkeit

(Seit 5. Ein Quentchen Wissen, Sinn und Weisheit)



Sadness

(page 5. A Bit of Knowledge, Sense and Wisdom)





Die Traurigkeit ist eine Psychebewegung, gegen die der Mensch weitestge­hend gefeit sein und die er weder lieben noch achten sollte, auch wenn das Gros der Menschheit diese wohlwollend und im Ausdruck der Gefühle als vorrangig erachtet.



Sadness is a psychic emotion against which the human should be very largely immune and which he should neither love nor respect, even if the majority of humanity considers it favourably and considers it to be of primary importance in the expression of feelings.



Damit werden jedoch nur das Leben selbst sowie das Gewissen, das Wissen, das Bewusstsein, die Tugenden und die Liebe des Menschen künstlich geschmückt, um der reellen Verarbeitung der Tatsachen und der gegebenen Momente des Verarbeitenmussens gewisser Vor­kommnisse und Geschehen auszuweichen und diesen nicht in angemesse­nem und wahrheitserkennendem Rahmen entgegentreten zu müssen.



However, as a result of this, life itself, as well as the human’s conscience, knowledge, consciousness, virtues and love, only becomes artificially embellished in order to evade the real processing of the facts and the actual moments of having to process certain occurrences and events, and to not have to confront them in appropriate contexts which acknowledge the truth.



So degradiert sich die Traurigkeit selbst zu einer Erbärmlichkeit, die jeder Einsichtigkeit entgegenwirkt und daher ein Erkennen und Erfassen der wirklichen Tatsachen verunmöglicht.



In this way the sadness degrades into wretchedness which works against all insightfulness and therefore makes recognition and grasping of the real facts impossible.



Dadurch entsteht ein Zustand des Ausgeliefertseins an eine leiderzeugende Situation oder Sache usw., die es grundlegend zu beherrschen und damit auch zu verstehen gilt, die jedoch infolge des falschen Denkens, und damit auch der falschen Gefühlserzeugung, zu einem Psychedebakel führt, das in umfassender Traurigkeit endet und alle Vernunft zum Nichtsein und in die Wirrnis führt.



Through this emerges a state of giving up on a situation or matter and so forth which engenders suffering, which ought to be mastered and thereby also understood, but which leads, as a result of wrong ways of thinking and thereby also the wrong engendering of feelings, to a psychic debacle which ends in extensive sadness and leads to the abolition of all reason, and leads to confusion.





Nur der Mensch, der die Traurigkeit bereits in ihren Grundzügen besiegt hat und sie zu kontrollierbaren Gedanken und Gefühlen macht, die keiner­lei Ausartung mehr zulassen und die sich den Gesetzen des Schöpferisch-Natürlichen einordnen, vermag den Moment des Erkennens und Erfassens der wirklichen Wahrheit der Liebe in allem Schöpfungsgegebenen zu reali­sieren, um im Verstehen der gegebenen schöpferisch-natürlichen Gesetze und Gebote zu erkennen, dass Betrübliches wohl von Zeit zu Zeit gegeben sein kann, dass dieses jedoch nicht zur Traurigkeit, sondern zum Erken­nen, Erfassen und Verstehen der Dinge und des Lebens sowie zur Freude gereichen soll. Denn tatsächlich entsteht Traurigkeit nur aus einer Selbst­sucht sowie aus einer Abwendung von der Freude zum Dasein, so aber auch aus dem Nichtverstehen und Nichtverstehenwollen der Dinge und der Gesetze und Gebote des Lebens, folglich diese Fakten nur erfasst und in die richtigen Normen gebracht werden müssen, um der Traurigkeit in ge­wissen Momenten Herr zu werden und um das Leben, die Freude und die Liebe zu bejahen.



Only the human who has already overcome sadness in its basic characteristics and converts it into controllable thoughts and feelings which no longer permit any kind of degeneration, and which are adapted to the creational-natural laws, is able to realise the moment of recognising and grasping the real truth of love in all Creation-given things, in order - in understanding the given creational-natural laws and directives - to recognise that afflictions indeed can occur from time to time, but that they should not extend to sadness, rather to the recognition, comprehension and understanding of things and of life, as well as to joy, because sadness actually only comes about from selfishness as well as from turning away from the joy of existence, therefore also, however, from not understanding and not wanting to understand the matters, and the laws and directives, of life. Consequently these facts only need to be grasped and made to conform with the correct norms in order to master sadness in certain moments and in order to have a positive attitude towards life, joy and love.







Preis der Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit

(Seite 80. Ein Quentchen Wissen, Sinn und Weisheit)



In Praise of Love, Truth and Wisdom

(page 80. A Bit of Knowledge, Sense and Wisdom)



Findet man die effective, wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit, dann erkennt man mit Erstaunen, dass sie in allen ihren Belangen und Formen sehr einfach sind.



When one finds effective, true love, truth and wisdom, then one recognises with astonishment, that in all their essence and forms they are very simple.



Doch gerade infolge dieser Einfachheit will der Mensch von ihnen und ihrem ganzen Sinn und Wert nichts wissen, denn, so denkt er, was einfach ist, sei nichts wert, nichts von Bedeutung und keine Kostbarkeit.



Nevertheless, directly because of this simplicity, the human does not want to know anything about them nor about all their meaning and value, because, what is simple, so he thinks, is worth nothing, is of no significance and is not precious.



Wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit, so glaubt er, seien nur dann wertvoll, wenn zu deren Erwerb ein hoher Preis bezahlt werden müsse und wenn sie nicht bis in deren Grundlagen begriffen und verstanden werden könnten und kompliziert seien.



True love, truth and wisdom, so he believes, are only valuable when a high price must be paid in order to acquire them and when they cannot be grasped nor understood even in their fundamentals, and are complicated.



Und wird ihm, dem Menschen, nahegebracht, dass wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit als kostbarste aller Güter unentgeltlich sind und einfach durch die Kraft klaren und vernünftigen Denkens erlangt werden können, dann wundert er sich und fragt, wie es denn komme, dass alles auf so einfache Weise erlangt werden könne, denn die Lehren der Religionen, Philosophien und diverser Ideologien würden doch beweisen, dass alles recht unergründlich und in seinem tiefsten Sinn nicht erklärbar sei.



And if it is brought home to him - the human - that true love, truth and wisdom, as the most precious of all goods, are free, and can be obtained simply through the power of clear and reasonable thinking, then he wonders and asks, how come everything can be obtained in such a simple way, since the teaching of religions, philosophies and diverse ideologies would indeed show that everything is quite unfathomable and, in its deepest sense, inexplicable.



Und in diesem irren Wahn ist der Mensch derart stark gefangen und verwurzelt, dass er die Einfachheit der wahren Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit von vornherein ablehnt, ohne ihr auch nur eine winzige Chance der doch bestehenden Möglichkeit einzuräumen.



And the human is so strongly imprisoned and deeply rooted in this erroneous delusion that he rejects the simplicity of true love, truth and wisdom from the start without conceding it even a tiny chance of the still existing possibility.



Und dieser Wahn ist es auch, der Schuld daran trägt, dass der Mensch die Kostbarkeiten wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit in völlig abstrusen, komplizierten und verwickelten Dingen sucht, die den Gegenständen der Suche völlig fremd sind und die in die Irre und Wirrnis führen.



And it is this delusion which also bears the blame for the human seeking the preciousness of true love, truth and wisdom in completely abstruse, complicated and involved things which are completely foreign to the objects of the search and which lead to error and confusion.



Und in diesem Wahn bewegt er sich in seinem Glauben und in der falschen Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit, die ihm durch die falschen, irren und wirren Lehren vorgegaukelt werden.



And in this delusion he is moved in his belief and in the false love, truth and wisdom which are conjured up for him by the false, erroneous and confused teachings.



So hängt der Mensch wirren Unwerten nach, die ihm durch Religionen, Philosophien und sonstige Ideologien entgegengebracht und eingebleut werden und die ihm den Kopf derart voll machen, dass er nicht mehr zwischen Realität und Irrealität zu unterscheiden vermag.



So the human loses himself in confused, worthless things which are brought to him and are hammered in by the religions, philosophies and other ideologies and which make his head so full that he is no longer able to distinguish between reality and that which is imaginary.



Dessen ungeachtet jedoch erfüllen sich die Menschen mit falscher Freude, auch wenn sie von den ganzen irren und wirren Lehren nur sehr wenig oder nicht das mindeste verstehen, weil das ihnen Dargebrachte äusserst verwirrend, sich widersprechend, unlogisch und inhaltslos ist.



Nevertheless, however, the humans fill themselves with false joy, even when they only understand very little, or not the slightest, of the entire erroneous and confused teaching since that which is brought to them is extremely confusing, contradicts itself, is illogical and without content.



Dessen ungeachtet glauben die Menschen aber, dass die ihnen nahegebrachten irren und wirren Lehren doch «gehaltvolle, tiefgreifende, kraftvolle und belehrende Worte» seien, aus denen wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit hervorgingen, die einfach angeeignet werden könnten, ohne dass dabei intensiv gelernt und die Einstellung und Gedankenwelt geändert werden müsse.



But, nonetheless, the humans believe that the erroneous and confused teachings which are made accessible to them are still “rich, profound, powerful and instructive words” from which true love, truth and wisdom come forth which simply can be appropriated without having to be intensively learnt and without having to change their attitude and world of thoughts.



Die irren und wirren Lehren, denen der Mensch nachhängt und die er niemals in ihrem wirklichen Gehalt ergründen kann, machen ihn glauben, dass ihm von einer Gottheit oder sonstigen höheren Macht einfach alles gegeben, geschenkt und in den Schoss gelegt werde, folglich er mühelos diesen Gaben einfach Folge zu leisten brauche, um wirkliche, wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit zu erfahren.



The erroneous and confused teaching in which the human loses himself, and which he can never fathom in its real content, causes him to believe everything is simply given, sent and laid in his lap by a divinity or other higher power, consequently that he simply needs to effortlessly accept these gifts in order to come to know real, true love, truth and wisdom.



Was aber Wirklichkeit ist, dass alles bewusst und durch Lernen erarbeitet werden muss, das geht im Strom der Unwissenheit verloren, ebenso aber auch die Tatsache, dass wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit leicht und einfach und ohne hohe materielle Werte resp. ohne Geld usw. zu erlangen sind, wenn wirklich und bewusst danach gesucht und der Schritt des Erlernens getan wird.



But the reality, that everything must be worked out consciously and through learning, is lost in the current of ignorance, as is also the fact that true love, truth and wisdom are easy and simple to obtain and without high material values, respectively, without money, and so forth, if they are really and consciously sought for and the step of learning is taken.



Letztlich ist alles in erster Linie im innersten, schöpferischen Wesen als unzerstörbares Gut verankert, und im tiefsten Grund des Bewusstseins ist diesem diese Tatsache auch bewusst und ständig gegenwärtig - nur der Eigensinnigkeit des Menschen scheint diese Tatsache zu billig zu sein, um ihr Beachtung zu schenken, sie zu akzeptieren und sie sich nutzbar zu machen.



Ultimately, everything is anchored, first and foremost, in the innermost, creational being as an indestructible good, and, in this, in the deepest foundation of the consciousness, this fact is also consciously and constantly extant. Only due to the obstinacy of the human does this fact appear to be too cheap to give it heed, to accept it and to make it useful.



Lieber tendiert der Mensch dazu, sein Wohl und Heil in irren und wirren Lehren oft äusserst banaler sowie unverständiger Form zu suchen, weil er sich anderweitig auch einbildet, dadurch mehr zu wissen und anderen gegenüber wichtiger und angesehener zu sein.



Rather, the human tends to seek his wellbeing and salvation in erroneous and confused teaching of often extremely banal and un-understandable form because he also imagines, on the other hand, to thereby know more and be more important and respectable in comparison to others.



Das ist leichter, als die wahren Werte zu suchen und diese zu verwirklichen.



That is easier than seeking the true values and putting them into practice.



Es ist aber auch leicht, einiges um die Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit zu wissen, doch fällt es ungemein vielen Menschen äusserst schwer, diese Werte zum Bestandteil ihrer Persönlichkeit und ihres Lebens zu machen, weil sie sich davon abwenden und sich weigern, diese Werte zu leben.



But it is also easy to know something about love, truth and wisdom, yet for uncommonly many humans it is extremely difficult to make these values a component of their personality and their lives because they turn away from this and refuse to live these values.



Nicht ist es aber damit getan, einfach eine gewisse Kenntnis in bezug auf die wahre Liebe, Wahrheit und Weisheit zu haben, sondern der Mensch muss diese tiefgreifenden Werte besitzen und also sein eigen nennen können, und er muss diese erfahren, erleben und erfüllen, denn nur so können sie sich durch die Persönlichkeit und durch das Leben verwirklichen.



However, it is not simply done by having a certain knowledge in regard to true love, truth and wisdom, rather the human must possess these profound values and therefore be able to call them his own and he must experience, live and fulfill these, because only this way can they be actualised through the personality and through life.



















Zweifel als Mangel

(Seit 208. Ein Quentchen Wissen, Sinn und Weisheit)



Doubt as a Shortcoming

(p.208. A Bit of Knowledge, Sense and Wisdom)



Wenn Zweifel gehegt werden, dann haben diese in keiner Weise etwas mit einer gesunden, logischen und wissenheischenden Suche nach Wahrheit zu tun, denn Zweifel sind stets ein Symptom dessen, dass ein Mangel herrscht in bezug auf die Klarsicht und Klarerkennung, durch die die effectiven Tatsachen von Dingen, Zusammenhängen und Wirklichkeiten erkannt werden, die zu­sammengefasst sind in der grundsätzlichen Wahrheit.



The maintenance of doubt has, in no way, anything to do with a healthy, logical and knowledge-demanding search for truth, because doubt is always symptomatic of a prevailing deficit in regard to clear vision and clear recognition through which the effective facts of things, connections and realities, which are brought together in basic truth, are recognised.



Die Wahrheit selbst aber beruht in der Erkenntnis der Natur des Tatsächlichen und damit in der Natur der effectiven Wirklichkeit.



The truth itself, however, rests in the recognition of the nature of that which is factual and thereby in the nature of effective reality.



Werden die Klarsicht und Klarerkennung bewusst und massgebend geübt und vollumfänglich verwirklicht, dann schwindet jede Spur eines Zweifels dahin, weil eben die volle Wirklichkeit und damit die grundlegende, tatsächliche Wahrheit gesehen und erkannt werden.



If clear vision and clear recognition are consciously and appropriately exercised and extensively realised then every trace of doubt disappears because now the complete reality is seen and recognised and, with it, the fundamental, actual truth.



Doch bis der Mensch diese Klarsicht und Klarerkennung erlangt, die er sich evolutiv hart erarbeiten muss, wird es für ihn unvermeidlich sein, Zweifeln zu unterliegen, denn zweifeln bedeutet eine fundamentale Aktivität der sich entwickelnden Persönlichkeit resp. des noch unwissenden und nach wahrem Wissen und wirklicher Wahrheit strebenden materiellen Bewusstseins.



Yet until the human obtains this clear view and clear recognition, which he has to develop through hard, evolution-promoting work, he will be unable to avoid being subject to doubts because doubts signify a fundamental activity of the developing personality, respectively, of the still ignorant material consciousness which strives for true knowledge and real truth.



Zweifel müssen aber durch erlangtes Wissen und erkannte Wahrheit ausgeräumt werden, wenn ein bewusstseinsmässiger Fortschritt errungen werden will.



But doubt has to be displaced by means of obtained knowledge and recognised truth if progress relating to the consciousness is to be achieved.



Das jedoch ist nur zu schaffen durch eine massgebende Klarsicht und Klarerkennung, durch die Wahrheit und Effectivität erkannt und verstanden werden.



However, that can only be created through an appropriate clear vision and clear recognition through which truth and efficacy are recognised and understood.



Der Weg dahin ist jedoch nicht leicht und mit Zweifeln belegt, die jedoch nicht einfach gewaltsam unterdrückt werden dürfen oder in denen geschwelgt werden soll, sondern sie müssen durch eine massgebende Klarsicht und Klarerkennung abgebaut und aufgelöst werden.



But the way to that is not easy and is paved with doubts which, however, may not simply be forcefully oppressed, nor should they be indulged in. Rather they must be demolished and dissolved through an appropriate clear vision and clear recognition.
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 162
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent choices of quotes, and good translations. In relation to translations, all of these quotes direct to the unfortunate fact of English's degeneration, due to abstruse jargons arising from non-understanding, understanding-destructive teaching methods, the lack of understanding of mathematics in general, egoism and selfishness of all kinds, arbitrary belief and the upholding of doubt to bolster the factitious importance of one's own such beliefs, the enormous anxiety about and illogicality toward all matters spiritual, &c. The common language is so misused that the simple and honest transferance of a concept from human to human could result in the receiver fully misunderstanding the intended meaning, thus compounding absurd pure-subjectivist beliefs by isolating human beings in self-contained epistemic shells from which they cannot escape by their accepted and culturally-conditioned modalities. The only means of escape would be the discarding of evil cultural pressures and the overcoming of the ego, which is all-too-often trapped in self-pitiful and self-created sadness--excessive self-concern being the general root of both illogical thinking and unsympathy. Persons suffering under this type of egoistic thinking should never be permitted to have offspring, for one, because they are incapable both of teaching effective truth to their children and of raising their children sufficiently and understandingly. They are bound to justify any crimes they commit against their children on the grounds that they have, in the past, suffered some ill-treatment, which they refuse to reflect upon objectively.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Markc
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Post Number: 679
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dyson and Vivienne ;

It's good to see you around again ; i wanted you to know that your appropriate translation (for me) is ironic , at a time when sadness and loss is all that i know .

Kind Thanks , Mark

I will read this when I can concentrate on sensible treasures such as this .
Mark Campbell
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James
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Post Number: 76
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tasmania! Its high on my list for migration, though not anytime soon. Are you farther inland?

And thanks, your translations are always appreciated.
Welcome to Earth!
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Phenix
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 10:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Badr and all the other Comrades,

I am new on board, so i dare count on your magnanimous Spirit for the mistakes and lack of proper knowledge and understanding i might display here.
Now then.
I have understood that FIGU might need some help with translation, in order to make the Mission accessible to a larger part of Mankind.
It happens that i have the chance to be fluent in French(first language), Russian and Dutch.
I know some German(die Deutsche Sprache, not the Swiss version), but it is rather passive and not good enough to deal with the depth of the teaching of herr Meier.
But, if needed, i would be able(and i am willing) to translate the English version into the abovementioned languages. I could begin with short articles(such as 'open letters', FIGU Bulletins...). I would need some help in so doing - proofreading, style, right choice of words...
This is my request:
Are there members out there - who have a better understanding of the Mission and who master one of those languages - who could team up with me?

Salome!

Adam.
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Norm
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Post Number: 1196
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Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi D&V, Thats a heck of a move. I hope things are going good for you two.

N


James, its an island.
My Website
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James
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Post Number: 77
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I mean not along the coast like Devonport or Hobart
Welcome to Earth!
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 163
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do have one complaint or comment regarding your translation, Dyson, which I do not address only to you, because the matter is serious to all those interested in this translation:

The translation of the word 'Traurigkeit' to 'sadness' may lead to misunderstandings, confusion, and all the rest, just as Billy's use of the words 'Emotion' and 'Gefühl' to mean two entirely different things, as is not common in English. True, the word is used to mean the same thing as 'sadness' quite often, but 'sad' is also used to mean merely 'weeping' equally as often in English.

The word 'Traurigkeit' can be best translated as 'downcastness' or 'mournfulness', corresponding to being 'downcast' or 'mournful'. 'Betrübtheit', on the other hand, means 'aggrievedness', 'sadness', such as weeping, lamentation, etc.

Recall also what Semjase has said about the matter of simple weeping, that is, honest expression of 'Betrübtheit'.


"...Besser sind alle jene dran, welche nach aussen zu weinen vermoegen, um ihren Gefuehlen in dieser Form Ausdruck zu verleihen und sich dadurch zu erleichtern."

"Better off are all those who are able outwardly to weep, so as to impart expression to their feelings and thereby to alleviate themselves."

- Semjase, Contact Notes Block 2, page 476, Contact # 79, 6 July 1977.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Indi
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Post Number: 227
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The translation of the word 'Traurigkeit' to 'sadness' may lead to misunderstandings, confusion, and all the rest, just as Billy's use of the words 'Emotion' and 'Gefühl' to mean two entirely different things, as is not common in English. True, the word is used to mean the same thing as 'sadness' quite often, but 'sad' is also used to mean merely 'weeping' equally as often in English.

Oh for goodness sake!!!!!!!
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 164
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indi,

I think it is quite important that we make the clear distinction between the feeling of grief, lamentation, and bleariness, and that of downcastness, mournfulness, dwelling, self-pity, etc.

These are empirically quite distinct states of psyche, one of which corresponds to a logic, altruism, honesty about negativity and thus truth and honour, while the other corresponds to dwelling in and possibly exaggerating the negative, self-pity, illogic, dishonesty and thus dishonour and self-deception. A person who mopes about, wallowing in their negative feelings, and imagining themselves a victim, thus stirring feelings of vengefulness and hatred, etc., is quite distinct from a person who reacts to negativity with pain (the logical, honest, and humane reaction, such as to the extreme illogic and selfishness of some human beings, or to brutality, etc.) as well as, for that matter, outrage, righteous anger, etc.

There is an even graver distinction between 'Emotion' and 'Gefühl'--the first being an uncontrollable, seizure-like impulse in the brain caused by conscious or subconscious meditation on thoughts, and the latter being simply the sense of consciousness in the psyche (nervous system, centred in the chest to stomach area).


Salome,

- Matthew
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Corey
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Post Number: 72
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

does anyone know why the umulauts aren't working?

ü
harmonisches Funktionieren zu lernen
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Matthew_deagle
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Post Number: 165
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 01:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I note that I did not supply you with indeed the most obviously correspondant words from English to the German words 'Traurigkeit' and 'Betrübtheit', namely 'dreariness' and 'bleariness'. Dreary is indeed quite a different thing than bleary. Look them up, preferably in a reputable dictionary.

Salome,

- Matthew
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Hector
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Post Number: 401
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 02:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The exactitude, accuracy and veracity of German translations has been discussed many times here.

The overall messages in Dyson's translations are quite clear, although the may contain little errors. And what makes his translations valid is that he always accompanies his translations with the German original for comparison, as demanded by Billy and the Plejaren.Corrections and comments are always welcomed, anyway.

I think its of public interest for figu friends worldwide who do not master german to read translated little portions of Billy's teachings, if they're accompanied by the German original. Only in that case those translations are of public interest.

The importance of those little literary pieces/translations, in my opinion, is inmense. Just like fractals, the info contained in such pieces can be projected/extrapolated to the info contained in the whole.

Regards
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Alex553
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Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 01:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi

I have a question about a "change" in English translation of Contact Report 251.

Now we read:

"On a broader scale, expect a coup involving the USA and its president, in the year 2003, in march, which will stun the entire world. "

I remember reading that contact report's English translation from FIGU website back around 1997-1999 and I exactly remember that there was no mentioning of March 2003 in it. I did a search in internet and got this copy (stored earlier?):

http://www.areadownload.com/ufo/documents/First%20Contact.doc

"On a broader scale, expect a coup involving the USA and its president, which will stun the entire world."

So I'm not imagining, no mentioning of March 2003 there.

I find it really unlikely that some translator would choose to omit a piece of precise data that would be so easy to translate otherwise. So I would like to ask you, what exactly is the history of (not) mentioning of March 2003 in Contact Report 251 English translation?
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James
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Post Number: 79
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 04:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Alex, yes some information is left out of the contact reports purposefully. I noticed myself on the Wayback machine http://www.archive.org/ sometime ago on the topic of 9/11 (but you can't check now since the major website update last year).
This line was added to the public version of contact 215 shortly after 9/11 - "The destruction of the WTC, i.e., the World Trade Center, by terrorists will only be the beginning."
Welcome to Earth!
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Indi
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Post Number: 231
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 05:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Alex
all I can offer as a possible explanation is that with predictions and publications, it was not permitted to give dates etc.... before their occurrence. However, after the date has passed they would be included in the more recent editions. This is explained in one of the earlier contact notes.
I would expect that in these cases, that the complete predictions would be officially witnessed by someone and sealed, so that when including them in later editions after the predicted date, it would not be breaking any ethics to include them from then on.

Maybe Christian could comment on this, as I am only using memory and logic to make this suggestion :-)

By the way -- there is no author for that document you posted above -- would you mind providing the author?

In my 2005 copy of the Contact notes Block 7, which contains #251, March 2003 is mentioned.

Robjna
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Phi_spiral
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Post Number: 327
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Alex,

There's one other thing to consider about that passage from Contact Report 251 and it revolves around what is meant by "coup." Michael Horn has previously posted this explanation on the forum:

Michael Horn: Regarding the "coup", I wrote something about this several years ago and noted that the German word schlage was mistranslated and should have read "strike", as it appears on page 292 of And Still They Fly! where this correction can be seen.

I wrote that I thought that it referred to the strike or attack by the US and its president on Iraq. Meier even used the word “stun” when he said the strike would "...stun the entire world..." “Stun” is a synonym for the term “shock” used by the US as in "shock and awe".
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Adysor
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Post Number: 98
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Indi,

If
"it was not permitted to give dates etc.... before their occurrence. However, after the date has passed they would be included in the more recent editions"

Then why would Michael Horn or anyone who tries to prove the case true include the so called prophecies and prediction since they are shown after the events occurred...that is no proof at all.
Adrian.
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Redbeard
Member

Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Adysor, here's a copy of a message that Michael Horne sent to me in response to me asking about any books or material printed before certain events happened.



Matt,

There are a number of things published in Vols. 1 - 4 of Message from the
Pleiades by
Wendelle Stevens, that happened years later, i.e. the two planets beyond Pluto.
Plus there's
info in those books about hte Jupiter and Venus info that Meier scooped the
scientists on.

The article at www.theyfly.com re the 5,100 year-old man is mind-blowing, as
there's a
copyrighted, dated book with the info in it that was published years before the
scientists
figured out what killed the guy.

Check the info on the pages linked from the Prophecies link on my site,
including the
Henoch Prophecies.

There's info in Contact 251 (see my Newsletter Archives for links) that you can
also check
out. In Switzerland they have tons more since some of the people regularly sit
around and
read newspapers and magazines scanning for such things in the mainly German
language
papers, etc.

Best,

MH


Sounds like there is proof to be had if you need it.
Redbeard
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Indi
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Post Number: 232
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My comments were only to do with specific dates eg., March 2003, not general ones -- I thought that was clear.
My response was to why is the specific date not in the older version.

Robjna
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Gaiaguysnet
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Post Number: 773
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mark and those others who expressed appreciation for the translations. You may have guessed that these choices represent teachings that I especially found helpful, and they are distinctly different from what I was raised on.

Hopefully you have found your way out of the sadness Mark. I’m sorry to hear you’re so down. I’ve never come across any teaching that was so reliably, thoroughly and practically helpful, and that, in and of itself, is reason to cheer up. I’m sure you agree.

I’m just passing through briefly, so I’m sorry if I missed more relevant or recent comments.

Salome,

Vivienne
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Markc
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Post Number: 685
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Vivienne ;

Thanks for your kindness . This will take time ; the passing of my mother . I have no complaints , because I am lucky to be her son .

The teachings have helped me as well as her , you see , my family would have a crematon if not for my intervention .

When someone makes such a gesture , for the moment , everything is alright .

Take Care , Mark
Mark Campbell
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Phenix
Member

Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 03:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Indi,

Your line of reasoning in post 231 seems logical to me - in the wider context of the Mission and the prudence that is mandatory in relation to certain sensitive information in Prophecies and Predictions and its possible influence on the behevior of People and consequently on the course of events.
As for the stance of Comrade Adysor in post 98, well i guess that the matter could, if needed, be submitted to Herr Meier, or to those within FIGU in the position to clarify the whole situation.

Salome.
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Phenix
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Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 03:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Markc,

My cordial condolence.

Courage!

Salome.
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 166
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<Mensch in Wahrheit und Liebe ist nur der, der echte Liebe lohnlos als Liebe zu verschenken vermag.>

'A mental being in truth and love is just that, that may unrequitedly give away legitimate love as love.'

- <Billy> Eduard Albert Meier, Uster, September 1973 (from <die Psyche>)
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Badr
Moderator

Post Number: 416
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 02:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Matthew,

After all the things you wrote about translation I did expect something much better from you. It seems like one needs an interpreter to understand what you are saying. Any way this is my version of translation... for the people that have difficulty deciphering your version.

Something worth noting, after checking on the original source your German sentence is wrong your version says “Mensch in Wahrheit und Liebe” but in the book it says “Mensch in Wahrheit und Weisheit”

"Mensch in Wahrheit und Weisheit ist nur der, der echte Liebe lohnlos als Liebe zu verschenken vermag."

„Human in truth and wisdom is only he who can give away true love reward-less as love”

Die Psyche page 104

Salome, Badr
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Indi
Member

Post Number: 235
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 03:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmmmm

might as well join in this one
"Mensch in Wahrheit und Weisheit ist nur der, der echte Liebe lohnlos als Liebe zu verschenken vermag."

"Only a person in truth and wisdom is able to give true love without reward, as love."

Robjna
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Kingman
Member

Post Number: 385
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Playing off each previous interpretation...

"Only the human with truth and wisdom can share their love as unconditional love."

Hmmmmm,

This unplanned exercise seems like something we should have been doing here long ago. It sure felt like a little light bulb just went on.

In other words,

there's only one truly bad translation, and that's no translation. With a little shared effort we should be able to build a translated sentence into a clear meaning statement all would understand. That seems like it has value. Obviously there will be many version attempts, but it could foster more of an involved, classroom/study-like atmosphere our forum could progress with.

Explaining ones own version should be done through personal e-mails to avoid the entangling trappings of taking sides in a public discourse.

Logically, the purist version of a translation would automatically make itself known, as long as there were several actively involved people participating. And of course we know we will have some very qualified observers on occasion to tidy up any loose ends, or maybe even place the gold star of approval on a well done subject. OK, now I'm getting carried away...
a friend in america
Shawn
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 167
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Badr,

You're right. I mistyped the original German sentence, and then translated the mistyped sentence. I'm not sure how that happened, as I don't recall mistyping that word, making the sentence partly tautological. Whatever the case, the sentence should read

<Mensch in Wahrheit und Weisheit ist nur der, der echte Liebe lohnlos als Liebe zu verschenken vermag.>

- Billy, Ulster, September 1973


I did it rather quickly, but the point was just the translation of 'Mensch' as 'mental being', since the word 'human' implies a terrestrial mental being, or a possibly a humanoid extraterrestrial. A mental being would be a being with a mentality, and a mentality is defined as a collection of spiritual and material characteristics unique, in their totality, to the 'Mensch'. The older English word, 'man', in its original sense, had the same meaning as 'Mensch', while 'were' and 'wife' meant what modern 'man' and 'woman' mean. Thus, 'mental being' is just an attempt to get around the illogicalities of modern usage, in this case that the word 'man' is no longer used to mean 'Mensch', as it was commonly as recently as the first half of the 20th century. The degeneration in meaning of this effective word began with the Christian legend of woman (wife-man, wife) coming from man's (were-man, were's) rib, and the therewith-seeded non-sense idea that the male was the basic 'man' while the female was taken to an extension of 'man' (were). Eventually, feminists, rather than returning the terms 'were' and 'wife' into parlance, both of which are quite apt words for males and females in their actual meanings, attempted to eliminate the word 'Man' altogether in its original sense, resulting in the widespread usage of 'Human' in place of 'Man'--however, 'Human' means terrestrial Man, and not any Man in general, thence the words 'humanoid' and 'exterhumanoid' or 'xenohumanoid' recommended by the Plejaren for describing different phenotypical categories of men (mental beings).

In some kind of a prescriptive return to the older Lyrian logic common to the Germanic and Latin languages (descended from the Lyrian dialect, Arjn), we could just as well opt for

<Man in Truth and Wisdom is but he that may give away legitimate Love unrequitedly as Love.>

- Billy, Ulster, September 1973


Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 168
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Badr,

I furthermore do understand the source of all the difficulty in these translations, namely that modern English is greatly mutilated and most speakers of it are not able to comprehend authentic English literature as was usual only a century ago. There is a strange kind of trap here, in which most of the words for the ideas in Billy's teaching do or easily could exist in English, while the necessary neological uses of these words would oftener not become understood by most English-speaking and -reading men, due to their immersion in the banal American dialect of English, in which to state something in its honest worth is to sound harsh, rude, stilted, uncool, and a number of other possibilities, all of which are quite strongly and pervasively enforced by the irresponsible lack of a legitimate standard dialect, coupled with the sole linguistically unifying influence of the crassest entertainment-media.

I could dumb things down or intentionally use a word which does not mean quite the same thing as what Billy had said--but I have learned in the past few years that smooth-talk and crudeness nearly always beget gravely negative consequences, often, for instance, the illusion of knowledge, confusion and doubt about the meaning of a word, and ultimately missapplication of false concepts, producing either fanaticism or complacency and amnesia. The greater part of movements for 'truth', such as that of David Icke, do nothing less than insidiously tincture the truth so that it goes down (or up, if you prefer that image) into the unwitting prone, generating a frenzy of false feelings and imaginary ideas about the world, and finally, most often, complete forgetfulness about what he is supposed to have learned, since it was all supported only, anyhow, by tenuous fancies and free-willed beliefs.


Salome,

- Matthew
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Matthew_deagle
Member

Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although such semi-archaic and semi-neological Translations seem awkward if regarded in a cultural Light, they do seem to express more honestly the actual Statements of Billy in German. It is to note that the Majority of English synonyms for german Words have Latinate and germanic Equivalents, which, insofar as I can tell, have the same effective Meanings. Thus, multiple Translations are possible which do to some Grade conform to the german Meanings. No matter how archaic or wordy a Translation sounds to the modern english Ear, it does seem to me that such Translations convey the complete Information of the Message far better than Attempts of 'Modernisation', while also, in another Way, not merely reviving old english Speech Forms, but forging new ones that may add to the Understanding of the Passage if simply looked into. What ultimately seems to matter most in any Translation is that the Spirit Symbols become retained in the Evocations of the Significant Metaphors of the used Language. This is not possible in Full if the Language is crudified such that the genuine Description is partly dismantled. (And, as You may have noticed, I have decided to capitalise the nouns in both my Comment and in the Translations. The Abandonment of this Form was quite a Mistake on the behalf of english Publishers, given that English, more than even most european Languages, requires this distinction because of its Habit of separating Word Parts with a Space, combined with the Absence of adjectival Gender Indicators. Since most of the Academics presumedly responsible for the Standardisation of the Language have demonstrably failed at their Task, possibly because they are, as Ptaah says, Yearn-To-Be-Scientists, we Speakers of English might as well reform the Language ourselves, by the prescriptions of Logic and Effectiveness. It goes nearly without saying that there should also exist a Standard Pronunciation of the Written Word, based mostly upon the only one produced thusfar, the traditional Received Pronunciation in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

<Eine Wahrheit ist und bleibt eine Wahrheit, und ebenso hat sie nur eine Bedeutung, weshalb sie niemals in verschiedenen Formen und Werten ausgelegt und gedeutet werden kann.>

'A Truth is and remains a Truth, and just so it has but one Meaning, wherefore it can never a time become laid out and construed in various Forms and Worths.'

'A Verity is and stays a Verity, and just so it has but one Importance, wherefore it can never a time become expounded and interpreted in divers Forms and Values.'

- Billy, 'OM', Erklärungen page 15

<Liebe ist absolute Gewissheit dessen, selbst in allem mitzuleben und mitzuexistieren, so in allem Existenten: in Fauna und in Flora, im Mitmenschen, in jeglicher materiellen und geistigen Lebensform gleich welcher Art, und im Bestehen des gesamten Universums und darüber hinaus.>

'Love is absolute Certainty of Conscience thereof, oneself lives with and exists with in all, so in all Existent: in Fauna and in Flora, in the Withman, in whichever material and spiritual Form of Life's, alike which Kind, and in the Consistence of the collective Universe, and thereover hence out (beyond).'

- Bill