| Author |
Message |
   
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 439
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 08:54 pm: | 
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Hi Thomas,
In your second question you "wonder why our own subconsciousness doesn't override that illogic to a higher degree based on its better "understanding"?
The subconscious is like a great filing system, perhaps somewhat similar to the files on your hard disk. Its knowledge base and information bank is awesome, but it does not have decision making abilities (or AI) as I understand it. All decisions and understanding are made with the conscious mind. The subconscious assumes or just reacts according to how we program it rather than have any quality of understanding.
Other posters have mentioned the efficacy of this way of operating.
Kind regards,
Chris |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 627
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 12:33 am: |
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Hi everyone and thanks for your responses. One of the things I may not be clear on is exactly the function of the material subconsciousness in full. From several of BEAMs books, it is described to various degrees but I believe it might have been in the book Arahat Athersat that it is mentioned that the material subconsciousness is the main factor in how people react, etc. and not the material consciousness. This may be the source of my confusion and I need to clarify my understanding of that statement and reconcile it with the understanding that the subconsciousness does not think or decide but the consciousness does. It is becoming clearer to me as I sit here and think it over. Here is my understanding then:
The material consciousness gathers info, makes decisions, and feeds information automatically to the subconscious, both false and true info. The subconsciousness is sort of programmed with the info from the subconsciousness over time and can only process whatever info it has, but it only uses pure logic in its processes, thus the output of the subcosncious can indeed be in error in spite of its absolutely logical processing. So with that in mind, it is the programming of the subconsciousness that gives us our primary reactions but those can be overcome by the consciousness in a acute manner.
The only thing that is a little unclear, but becoming clearer, is how the subconsciousness can cause things to happen without the person making a conscious decision for that thing to happen. For example, when BEAM's ex wife was a child, she teleported herself a short distance due to her repulsion to the idea of kissing a skull on a school field trip. She didn't do this intentionally and she has no mastery over spiritual powers so it was her subconsciousness that activated this event. My question is not about the spiritual powers, etc., but instead how the subconsciousness can due something (whether extraordinary or mundane) without the consciousness programming it to do that action in advance such as the case with Kalliope (BEAMs ex wife).
Thanks again everyone :-)
Thomas |
Memo00
Member
Post Number: 359
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 06:25 am: |
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hi again Thomas
not all information passes through the consciousness before arriving to the subconsciousness
there exists the unconscious, the subconscious and the conscious, everything passes through the unconsciousness before entering either the subconscious or the conscious, and as many know the quantity of information that goes to the subconscious is in fact many times more than that that goes to the conscious (an example of this would be all the memories with exact detail that we have of all happenings of our lives but of which we aren´t aware consciously, and if we would train ourselves we would be able to see everything again and become conscious of many very small details that we weren´t conscious at the moment but that were "recorded" subconsciously. . .)
It is not really surprising that many things can happen without the conscious consciousness becoming aware of it, because it only is a small part of ourselves, we cannot be aware of all at the same time because we would become insane, we could simply not function in the world. It is like all the complex functions of the material body of we aren´t aware, and so in the mind there is also a lot happening without any conscious intervention. Of course it is something natural and good to become more and more conscious of each time more subtle things, because this opens the gates to a new world of thoughts, feelings, experiences and learning.
To understand how the teleportation can happen without conscious knowledge of how to perform it we can again compare this to the physical body: if for some reason lets say there is too little oxygen in the air, after some time then you would automatically faint as a protective measure, and so because of extreme fear or belief, consciousness powers can be "used" without knowing (consciously) how they work.
i hope this helps
take care |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 629
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 02:42 am: |
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Unfortunately the example of fainting doesn't apply because breathing is do= ne automatically, even when one is unconscious.=A0 Thanks for the attempt a= t helping me though :-) |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 631
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:31 pm: |
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Hello everyone. This question is for those of you who are GL Passive FIGU Members. It is my understanding that our connection with our spiritual side depends on the degree of balance in our psyche at any given moment. More balanced=stronger connection between the spiritual and material sides and the feedback we receive from the spiritual side can guide us if that balance is maintained to a degree and if we allow ourselves to use those impulses. My question is then, how is it that the spiritual side can guide us at all when the spiritual consciousness is in an unconscious states until the Arahat Athersata level is reached? I understand the mechanics of the connection somewhat, but I don't get exactly how we can be guided by the spiritual side other than just by receiving info from the storage banks which isn't really the same thing at all.
Sorry if I am not clear in the way I am stating this, but I am hoping those of you out their studying the lessons might help me if possible. I am working on the answer on my own as well but am always up for discussion where it is beneficial!
Thanks everyone :-)
Thomas |
Hector
Member
Post Number: 491
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 02:52 pm: |
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Hi Thomas, I'm not a Passive Member, but i'll try to share with you all some ideas about the questions you raised....
Unlike the material consciousness and the material body, which are subject to all kind of weaknesses and decay, the spirit is never, ever subject to any kind of weakness, exhaustion or decay.
Our bodies, our organs and our brains in their physiology need some sort of food or "fuel" in order to be kept running (proteins, carbohydrates..) Our spiritual side also needs to be fed/fueled, in this case not with any material kind of of fuel, but what Billy calls Wisdom, Knowledge, Love, Truth...such feeding of the spirit does not suffer from up and downs, because such "up and downs" are proper of the material realm, not of the spiritual realm. The spirit is always demanding an incessant evolution, an incessant striving for relative perfection, an unstoppable cumulation of creational energy, and this predetermined process cannot be affected, altered, modified by anything. It is just so.
What we can do as human beings is to alter the speed/rate/progress how we "fuel" or "feed" our spirit with Knowledge, Wisdom, Truth, Logic, Love etc etc. If we feed the spirit with exquisite "food" like meditative experiences, insight, cognitions, consciousness exercising, hard study and hard work, our spirit will very very slowly evolve and "mature", it will take more and more the rudder of our existence, of our lives. At this point of evolution here on Earth, our spirit forms are not conscious of themselves. I would say they are at their early "infancy","childhood". In the case of Ptaah, Semjase or Quetzal, their spirit forms would be a bit further, adolescence....In the case of Billy Meier, pure spirit forms and Arahat Athersata, the spirits would be "fully mature", full grown, at plenitude, ready to make intensive/extensive use of their creational capabilities.
In our relative "spiritual infancy" I suppose the spirits do not guide us, but rather the contrary, they are on "autopilot" mode so they can fit, learn and evolve in a place/realm sort of strange to them, the material realm. Step by step, incarnation after incarnation, the spirit will abandon his preinstalled passiveness, passivity, and begin to affect everything in a more active way. The aura and the sohar begin to shine bright. I suppose this is what Billy calls "wahrer Menschsein"....(true humanity, true humaneness).
Hope this helps....(This is my personal partial interpretation of the teachings, feel free to correct what you consider wrong, erroneous or incomplete).
Best regards. |
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 442
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 08:30 am: |
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Hi Thomas,
Obviously the spirit does not guide us in the form of thoughts and words etc.
I think of the spirit as having integrated into its essential frequency all the experiences, knowledge wisdom, lessons, love, and all things contributing to its evolution that it has experienced throughout the many physical incarnations experienced via the many bodies it has inhabited.
This wealth of integrated data -- to put it one way -- is then accessible to the human currently clothing or housing the spirit. If the human is attuned to spirit frequencies, spirit's frequency can come through. And this will be, again IMO, in the "form" or nature of ideas, inspirations, flashes of insight, instinctual knowing or understanding, wisdom, love, and any other of the spiritual qualities developed over the eons that may be particularly appropriate at any given time or circumstance.
To me it is in this way that the spirit guides, which is rather a far cry from popular ideas of messages and thoughts coming into ones mind from spirit.
IMO the spirit doesn't need language (alphabetical based) to communicate at all. It might however be that a human reaching to spirit levels might go through various archetypal forms, symbols, images or visual "language" forms as a bridge to spirit frequencies (just as one can get closer to spirit in the dream or meditative state where images occur); but there's the rub for the ordinary human: the misinterpretation of such imagery and "language" is remarkably easy, and yet the recipient is generally the best person to interpret the imagery that s/he receives and its relevance to their life at that point in time.
This is an ever present challenge that when accepted enables us to come closer to understanding spirit and its ways and nature, and which enables us to bring spirit ever more into our daily lives.
I must clarify that these are my own findings and ideas and not something I've read on Figu or in the Contact Notes, though I do have the 6 Stevens books and do not think that anything in them contradicts the above.
Kind regards,
Chris |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 318
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 05:25 pm: |
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Thomas
This is my understanding.
It is the psyche and the Gemüet that play the important roles here.
If the psyche is balanced, then the 6th and 7th senses are available for use by the person via the Gemüet.
If the psyche is not balanced, then the barrier between the two consciousness blocks (at the central consciousness) will be blocking access to these finer perceptions and transmission of these. This will mean that all one will have available to them are those perceptions from the 5 coarse material senses.
As it is the subconscious in the spirit consciousness block that contains the data from all other incarnations, that data will not be available (as impulses) for the same reasons, and the person will only have the present incarnation data for use to steer themselves through their life.
So, basically, if I am correct, then the influence of the spirit power, is through access to finer perceptions and transmission of same, via impulses from the Gemüet. In order for these finer peceptions to be utilized the psyche must be in a state of balance that enables it to receive and then transmit those finer impulses.
Robyn |
Matthew_justin_deagle
Member
Post Number: 48
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 01:08 am: |
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cpl,
Don't forget that there certainly is a spiritually transmissable language, namely the language of the spiritual symbols, as recorded in 'Symbole der Geisteslehre' by Billy. He describes what a Symbol is in the introduction. I -strongly- recommend reading it.
As symbols are the basic currency of the faculty of understanding (Verstand), I would say that such exist ubiquitously and have universal interpretations.
Salome,
- Matthew |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 444
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 06:58 am: |
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Hector,
Your post 491 was very well written. Thank you. |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 633
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 07:22 am: |
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Thanks everyone for your responses. Robyn I am familiar with what you said and understand it, however you are in error on one thing that makes a difference regarding my question. Actually not in error, but rather lacking a bit of info. In fact, according to BEAM in the writings, the material subconscious has all this info copied into it and the info is also stored in our genes in fine matter form. This means that, even though we are not consciously aware of it, the info from our previous incarnations (according to BEAM) is already copied into our material side. For this, I don't know exactly what the connection to the spiritual side adds when our psyche is in balance. I know you will want references so I will search them out for you and everyone ASAP.
(I pause here to think things over a bit before continuing the post)
Something just occured to me that may clarify things (thanks to our previous conversations Robyn). The spirit itself doesn't think and neither does the still unconscious spiritual-consciousness, however, the gemut and the spiritual consciousness do process information in automatic and impulse form. In addition, before the info can be absorbed by the spiritual side, it must pass through the censor of the central consciousness in order to make sure it conforms to logic and truth before being taken in by the spiritual side. With that in mind, I can see how the connection (when available via a balanced psyche) can help us know if we are thinking inline with the truth and logic of Creation. Yes, I think I am seeing it more clearly now.
If I understand what is happening, the material consciousness can take advantage of the spiritual side when the psyche is balanced in order to know if the material thoughts and feelings are in line with Creation and logic and love, etc. Does that sound correct Robyn to you, or am I steering in the wrong direction???
Either way, thanks to all who responded again. Your comments are appreciated...
Thomas |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 634
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 07:45 am: |
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On a seperate note, I would like to help those out there who have been confused on the difference between the subconsciousness and unconscious forms as I once was. I recently read some info from FIGU that clarified it for me and I offer my understanding of the info here with the warning that my understanding might be flawed.
The material consciousness is an active consciousness which gathers information and makes decisions in an active and self aware manner. It is capable of both logical and illogical thinking and thus can make mistakes.
The material subconscious is a consciousness form that is below the level of our direct awareness but is not the same as an unconsciousness form. The subconscious works in completely logical form only but is capable of error due to the fact that it may receive erroneous information to start with from the material consciousness. The material subconsciousness contains all information which has positively penetrated in the person in either aware or unaware form and has been recorded for possible later use.
The unconsciousness forms are plural. There are several unconsciousness forms in actuality. The material consciousness has its own unconsciousness form as does the material subconscious, as does the psyche, and so on. An unconsciousness form differs from the subconsciousness in the following way: Anything that a person senses or processes in a completely automatic way that doesn't involve consciousness processing it (either in aware or unaware form), is in the appropriate unconsciousness form. The moment the info or processing involves the subconscious or consciousness in either aware or unaware form, the info passes from the unconscious into the appropriate consciousness form.
To make it simpler by analogy, think of the body's material mechanical mechanisms, such as the eyes for example. The moment the eyes register information, the info is in an unconscious form but it is still absorbed by the person in mechanical form. The moment the subconsciousness accesses that info, or even if the consciousness gets it, the information has passed from unconscious form into another form.
Another clue I found in the writings from FIGU states that if a bit of info is already in the material subconsciousness, then before the info may pass into the material consciousness (under appropriate circumstances), the info must first pass into the the material consciousness' own unconscious form and then be passed into the material consciousness itself.
Does this help anyone at all?!? I finally feel that I really understand the diferences now thanks to things I have recently read. Before, I sort of got it to a degree but felt uneasy about the lacking in my understanding. Now, even though I might still be far from an expert on the topic, I feel I have a basic and solid grasp of the generalities involved.
If anyone sees or finds a flaw in my explanations or understanding, please tell me. Errors are the ladder to knowledge in many cases :-)
Thomas |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 319
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 08:32 pm: |
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Hi Thomas
The information about the spiritual subconscious, and the material subconscious, and what the difference between material intellectual thinking and spiritual intellectual thinking is, can be found in Lesson 5 of the Spirit Lessons and maybe as well in further lessons I have not done yet.
There are snippets discussed in other publications, however, the detail is found in this particular spirit lesson.
Here is a short example with regard to the subconscious:
"So speichert das geistige Unterbewusstsein also nur Dinge von gewissem Wert, Fakten, die durch eine absolute Bestimmtheit zu absolutem Wissen, Können und zur Weisheit in Logik geworden sind, während das materielle Unterbewusstsein nur Dinge und Daten speichert, die gegenwärtig und gegenwärtig-vergangen sind, die auf Annahmen oder auf Glauben beruhen, auf Zweifel und Kritik usw. usf."
and a quick translation:
"Thus the spiritual subconsciousness stores only things of certain value, facts which have become by an absolute certainty absolute knowledge, ability and wisdom in logic, while the material subconsciousness stores only things and data which is current and have recently transpired which are based on assumptions or on faith/belief, on doubts and criticism etc."
There are other passages that also say the above in various different ways.
The storage banks are also connected to all this, and the impulses that come from them, must come firstly via the spiritual consciousness block before it can be available to the material consciousness block etc......
Robyn |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 635
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 10:29 pm: |
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Thanks Robyn. Apparently I have made an assumption unknowingly due to misinterpretation of what I have read. I remember clearly though that all wisdom gathered in previous lives up to now is stored in fine material form in the genes. The quote for this was from Semjase and was in the contact notes. She and BEAM also mention the info is stored in the subconscious but do not say if it was the material or the spiritual subconscious, so I assumed from the context that they meant the material subconsciousness. Thank you very much for the clarification 
Does my post about the differences between subconscious and unconsciousness forms sound right to you or no? It is possible that I have misread that too but it seems fairly clear to my imperfect understanding.
Thanks again and g'day...
Thomas |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 638
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 06:03 am: |
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This is just a comment that I am making here rather than in the fluidal forces sections because I feel the topic will lead outside of the confines of fluidal forces specifically.
Anyhow, it just occured to me that there is a bit of a clue about the fluidal forces in BEAM's writings that wasn't obvious to me before. He states that the fluidal forces settle into places and objects, including of course, bones and skeletons which continue to host these forces after the owner of the skeleton has died. He also states that fluidal forces can be linked to by the material consciousness up to 3 light seconds away, or I think it said about 900000 kilometers.
On a seperate note, BEAM says that thoughts can only travel in fine physical form up to 3 light seconds away as well. In addition he mentions that fluidal forces are the result of thoughts and feelings, etc. but that they are not the same exact thing when asked about that by a FIGU member.
I once wondered if the reason that fluidal forces and thoughts each have a defined limit or range was because either one, they actually travel that far before their energy expires, or two, they don't travel themselves but only send out a radiating energy of sorts which decreases with distance similar to normal electromagnetic waves known to Earth people. Soon after thinking about this I remember that fluidal forces last for thousands of years in intact skeletons so the "expiration theory" was ruled out. It is obvious to me that fluidal forces do not just last 3 seconds and travel at the speed of light, which is the speed limit of all that is physical, whether it be finer or coarser, when the spiritual energies are not used in some way.
Any thoughts on this topic??? |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 645
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 01:19 pm: |
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Thoughts about the impermanence of what we are:
I noticed that I had a sort of uneasiness about the fact that when we die, we as a personality are gone even if the energy of our spirit and our gathered knowledge live on along with our comprehensive consciousness block. I really was upset to think that when my children die, whether or not I am incarnate at those moments, there would be the loss of 2 very wonderful human beings. But just now as I was reading one of BEAM's books, something occured to me that wasn't stated in what I was reading.
I began to think about the fact that I am not sad that my children have grown up until this very moment and that they are truly different people, even now, than at any other point in their young lives. True, I may miss some of the moments I spent with them in the past, but I can honestly say that I'm happy that they are growing in every way for their own evolution.
So when I look at death and rebirth from that perspective, it no longer seems like such a harsh reality for me because I know that my children will and have always existed since Creation gave them that intitial spark of life, albeit they were not and will never again have the same personalities at any given moment in time. I am just happy to know that, in spite of the hardships of life, one day, they, like the rest of us, will reach the relative degree of perfection and love that waits for us at the levels beyond the material existence when we no longer need mistakes and suffering to evolve... |
Markcampbell
Member
Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:07 pm: |
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Very clear observance there Thomas , thanks .
I have had similar thoughts about my own family .
MC |
Woody68
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 09:44 am: |
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How are people rehabilitated if they have done bad things in their past life? How are we taught not to do bad things? What keeps Hitler in his next life from picking up right where he left off? This is assuming we all go to the same fine matter world after we pass over.
thank you
Woody |
Gaiawingz
Member
Post Number: 76
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 02:53 pm: |
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Woody;
The spirit-form may remember, and perhaps even be influenced to a degree by, the past lives it has acted as the spark for -- but each incarnation results in a new personality, a new person, etc. It is not you who will reincarnate, because when you die your personality will cease to evolve -- it will begin dissolving as the fluidal forces connected to your body and place of living, possessions, etc. disperse and your spirit-form, although it will maintain a perfect memory of everything accomplished, thought, done, etc. within your lifetime, will begin dissolving your personality and incorporating the knowledge you accrued during your lifetime into itself.
To use Billy as an example, we know that his spirit-form enlivened Jmmanuel as well, but Billy is not the reincarnation of Jmmanuel anymore than Jmmanuel was the reincarnation of Henoch, etc. They all share the same spirit-lineage, and because of the evolutionary level of his spirit, Billy is able to tap into information about past and future incarnations, but to what degree I do not know, and one must still keep in mind that Billy himself is a separate person with a separate identity from Jmmanuel, etc.
Simply put, we must learn from our experiences. With high technology, perhaps one could guide the incarnation of a spirit and at the same time program/transfer the personality, perhaps even the memories, of the last life which that spirit-form led -- in which case one could almost reconstruct the prior person, but I think such efforts would be fraught with issues.
Also keep in mind that it has been stated that as a spirit-form evolves and 'ages', as it were, the incarnations look more and more alike, so they also are likely to act similarly, etc. Without having to track a spirit's incarnation, however, this 'phenomenon' of highly evolved spirits leading similar lives, etc. can be observed simply by looking at someone like Billy and John Chang, Bhante Dharmawara, or even Christopher Langan. More evolved/intelligent people tend to agree by sheer virtue of the fact that they tend to recognize the truth more readily and/or understand more about reality and the nature of the Universe than the average Earthling who flounders in ignorance.
That said, Hitler wasn't a 100% evil person. He had some very, very good ideas and I think that he could have changed the world a great deal for the better if he hadn't succumbed to degeneration and to the nefarious influences of others. A lot of people will say they'd love to go back and kill Hitler when he was a youth, before he'd done the evil things his regime carried out -- but be careful about condemning someone's entire life, remember that no one starts out evil.
Peace;
- Gaia |
Memo00
Member
Post Number: 365
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 04:51 am: |
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Hi Woody
when we die "we" disappear, our consciousness and our personality is dissolved, only the spirit survives in the beyond
each new life we a have a new body, a new consciousness, a new personality, etc. so it is a "clean" start, we are not and we will never be the same person we were before
We learn not to do "bad" things through life experiences, because of guilt, because of pain and suffering (not that one should torture persons but that one must become conscious of the consequences of his acts), criminals should be isolated so that they do not do more harm and have time to think in their wrongdoings
Creation doesn´t punish directly anyone for its deeds so its up to us to apply some kind of justice, the law of cause of effect is in action and so through their actions and their consequences violent criminals usually have a violent end but its not a rule, it can happen that they are never caught with their only "punishment" being lack of inner peace and guilt |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 660
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 06:46 am: |
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Hi Woody, since no one has answered you, I will. When you die your knowledge from the recent life is processed into a neutral positive spiritual form of energy and then your new personality will be created for the next life. This new personality starts fresh as a completely new person but with the impulses from that spiritform's associated storage banks. This means that, according to the thinking of the new personality as well as circumstances etc, the new person may or may not be similar to the previous personality. The impulses from the storage banks may help to avoid the previous mistakes but again, this depends on the thinking of the present personality. Hitler would never again be born as the same personality. He or she in the next life would start again but with the addition of whatever was learned from the last life being available in neutral positive form... |
Getknowledge
Member
Post Number: 40
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 01:42 pm: |
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From the Book OM:
1000. But the unrighteous, those who committed the misdeeds and did not change, they will never again enter the Earth, because only those who satisfy themselves with peace and are those who are the righteous ones will live on it, while all the unrighteous will be exterminated from the surface of the Earth as if they were irritating vermin who mutually destroy themselves.
1045. And the unrighteous ones will fall into the infinity of the nothingness before the glory of Creation, without return, therefore they neither again will get up and will not reborn again.
Since, Billy teaches that the spirit-form will not die, or go to hell. Does anyone have any further insights or knowledge about these verses mean exactly? The unrighteous "personality" will not be created or produces anymore, of course, or will those particular spirit-forms be divided and deported to another prison planet, or what?
Tien
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Markcampbell
Member
Post Number: 206
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 05:12 pm: |
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Good question , Tien , one that deserves some explanation .
MC |
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