| Author | Message | ||
    Sitkaa Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2004 |
A caveat: In re-reading what I tried to describe, I must admit that while my I makes sense of what I have perceived in this topic as described here, my i perceives it differently, even though both are true. The difference, my I believes, is that i is wholly given to love and sees everything subjectively, whereas my I 'has' my ego intact. In addition to the caveat, this topic begs the question: what is imagination and how does it relate to perceiving creation? How would you perceive the creation of reality? As a three+one-dimensional bubble turned inside out, or as something else? What else? Perhaps if you can imagine it, you can perceive it. Love is always the way | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 518 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Sitkaa....animals and plants cannot imagine anything. We humans can. Therefore you and i have something in common with the Creation, the ability to "create" something from nothing, and not due to the influence of instinct (survival instinct). Imagination = ability to create abstract or non abstract entities (ideas, thoughts) which can be brought into existence at will. While you are able to create thoughts, ideas, tools, and any material object, the Creation is able to create whole planets, solar systems,galaxies and living creatures. And the most important thing....the Creation is able to maintain, to keep everything she "creates" in a very strict and perfect order. Nothing ever created by the Creation is reigned by chaos. Your imagination can be steered, controlled consciously, and you can also let your imagination run wild. We humans have free will, it's one of the priviledges which Creation attributed to our species. How can we perceive Creation? Well, through the five senses, it's quite difficult. It seems like creation does not reveal itself, but just manifests itself thru the Laws and Commandments, and it's the human being task to unveil/discover these Laws & Commandments. The Creation manifests thru the law of polarity, the law of cause and effect, the cycles of creation and destruction and many more.... Although you and me are not able to "see" or "sense" Creation as a material, immaterial or living entity, that does not change the real reality.... There is some "unknown" power or force behind the rotation of electrons around protons, rotation of planets, solar systems, behind the heat and light liberation by suns&stars, sustaining living creatures, etc etc.... You cannot see it, but creation is right there. It gives energy, order, structure, cohesion and continuity to everything, be it of material or immaterial nature. (My own and very personal take on this question). Feel free to correct whatever you consider wrong. | ||
Adysor Member Post Number: 170 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hi Hector, I want to add something. I don't think you can imagine something if you have nothing there(in your head). You must have some kind of knowledge about certain things and with that your imagination works. "the ability to "create" something from nothing" I am thrilled to see you do that... You also say: "There is some "unknown" power or force behind the rotation of electrons around protons, rotation of planets, solar systems, behind the heat and light liberation by suns&stars, sustaining living creatures, etc etc...." You say it is Creation... but what I see is some kind of energy which does not have any power of choice. It seems its actions are predetermined. It isn't something which would at any moment decide not to make the planets rotate and so on from your examples. There is not one planet here which rotates around the Sun and another planet there which doesn't rotate. They all rotate. Whether you say that it rotates or not, IT doesn't care...it will continue that. Whether you recognize those laws or not...IT doesn't care. If I remember one part of Meier's mission is to teach the humans about the laws of Creation and to act accordingly. You say the law of polarity...How can you act according to that law? If it is a law, like the planets "obey" those physical laws, we should automatically "obey" them. It should be an automated process. But then we have this free will, through which we can choose whether or not to "obey" those laws. But Meier says by not obeying the laws and commandments of Creation we will ultimately die...Where is the free will here??? Do you want to die? Of course you are free to die but if you want to live... you must obey... Just pointing out. "You cannot see it, but creation is right there. It gives energy, order, structure, cohesion and continuity to everything, be it of material or immaterial nature." You say Creation is there but you don't see it. So how can you say it is there(I don't mean see, with eyes only). I don't see it with any sense so I can't say it is there. If there is something there at all; let alone what you call Creation. It goes something like this.... "Hey Hector, you know I have something behind my back? But you don't see it. I'm just telling you I have a gum behind my back." But when I show you my hands there is a 50/50 chance that there is nothing there. Although you smelled the odor of fruit gum near the place I was which probably came from somewhere else and had no relation to the gum I told you I had behind my back. Hi Sitkaa, If you say it's void, then there is nothing there... that's why it's called void. Not even the thought that it is void doesn't exist there. Right? So how can something potentiate from there? Even Love itself doesn't exist in the void. It's interesting... Void is an idea... our mind never encountered VOID. Well probably people said, when entering an empty room(no furniture etc.) they would say the room is void. Void means, according to a dictionary, completely empty space. It's funny because it also say somewhere that it means vacuum. But that implies that there is still the vacuum there. Anyway, according to the void definition nothing should there. No possibility of anything happening. Unless a presence or force exists...but then we wouldn't call it void. Unless you refer only to the physical void. It's confusing. Adrian. | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1080 Registered: 10-2007 |
***** Adrian, Creation itself, and the forces which manifest from the Creation, will indeed be "confusing for you, if you have no "internalized" point-of-reference. Whatever you "believe" or don't "believe" will do you no good in this internalization. There is a point at which you must KNOW -- internalized -- before you can make ANY progress in the direction of Truth. Until you actually KNOW, you will forever be tilting at windmills. ***** TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 366 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Randy, Recently, you mentioned that the Creation is not double spiral but seven and that the model provided is not accurate. I have not been able to find a reference to this. If this is the case, why are we still referring to that model; it should be replaced or at least a footnote added to clarify? Could you please be kind enough to show me the source of your information? Thanks. Salome, Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
Thomas Member Post Number: 723 Registered: 03-2004 |
Just a little correction Hector.=A0 According to BEAM animals do have imagi= nation but don't think ahead to the future in the way humans do :-) patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com | ||
Hector Member Post Number: 519 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Adysor, most of us here in the Figu forum have left a few...call it "spiritual stages" behind. One of those stages may be related to the "please prove this, please, prove that" attitude. For too many people, there can only exist what can be seen, touched, heared, smelled or tasted. Of course this is not true. There are many things out there, real things, which cannot be perceived by our main five senses. People have to develop some other helping tools like intuition, attentiveness, logic, common sense, concentration, meditation, meditative observation....etc etc in order to "sense" or perceive what does not consist of matter. (As well as studying and accepting the scientific method). I assure you, existing things, entities, objects o energies can be measured. But if they cannot be measured today, it does not mean they are non-existant. Some of us do not rule out anything just for the sake of "physical proof". We just know such proof will make its appearance in the future. The universe consists both of matter and "energy". You will never be able to see, hear, smell, taste or touch any kind of energy. But you will be able to measure it. As an analogy, you will never be able to see, hear, touch, smell or taste the Creation. But you will be able to measure some of its features/characteristics. Polarity: Night/day, pleasure/pain, heat/cold, male/female, peace/war, life/death.....Circularity: All kind of cycles like earth rotation, electron rotation, the 4 seasons, recurrence of climate-related phenomena, black holes, eternal transformation matter into energy and viceversa.... You may think these examples do have absolutely nothing in common with some "unknown" power or force some people call Creation, Universal Consciousness, or whatever....but you err....You may also label me and others as blind believer....that does not offend me. Of course the plejaren could any of these days descend to earth and explain, clear and prove "physically" each and every of your questions and demands. Of course they won't do this because such irresponsible behaviour would spare you and me much necessary thinking, trying, exploring, studying and learning. So called wisdom and knowledge cannot be brought to us by others, they are, as J-Rod very well explains to you in another post, internal processes of the consciousness based on own research, own studying, our own intelects hard work. The manifestations of Creation are there, just before your eyes, but you must make an effort and try to identify these analogies of polarity, circularity, cause and effect in nature, your daily life, other's lives, in the microcosmos, in the macrocosmos...etc etc... | ||
Stephen_moore Member Post Number: 176 Registered: 01-2009 |
Hi all We, the people of Earth cannot prove or disprove Creation exists scientifically or other. We can sense the presence of Creation through meditation and our thoughts and feelings. So it comes down to 2 things I think 1, We trust that Billy is telling us the truth or not. In my case I trust Billy to tell the truth so I trust that Creation exists. Even though I myself cannot prove it beyond a doubt. 2, We look and study nature. In the teachings it is said that animals have a instinct based consciousness. Well if you look at animals when they are born some can walk almost straight away. They know where to go to get milk (Their mothers). They know how to defend them selves and to be concerned about predators. Humans (OMEDAM) are not born with a instinct based consciousness. Our consciousness is one of learning, creating and more thinking and so on. So the answers are there in front of our eyes. We just have to work on a individual level to see and understand them. Just some of my thoughts on this Thanks My new Website address - www.ufofacts.co.cc | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2008 |
About the existence of Creation, well, everywhere is Creation. Our universe is in the material belt of our Creation. Nature is another word for Creation. The fact you exist, everything you can hear, see, smell, taste, touch, sense, cognise, etc. is proof of Creation. The immaterial aspects of Creation obviously cannot be proven with material senses. But you have to understand things within yourself, and also, if you have utilisation of your fine matter senses, then you can also sense that which is fine matter; fluidal forces. Future visions, memories of previous incarnations, sensing danger, feeling someone's energy/vibrations, all forms of telepathy, telekinesis, levitation, teleportation, spiritual healing, all are just some of the consciousness-related abilities someone can develop if they are spiritually evolved enough. And consciousness-related abilities are immaterial; they are fine material, or even spiritual energies/forces. Thoughts themselves are fine matter energies. With higher technology than our current on Earth, it is possible to measure fine matter/fluidal forces too. We do not yet have devices which are sensitive enough to pick up fluidal forces/fine matter energies/frequencies. About the void; the void is an endlessness of pure spiritual energy. But nothing is manifested there so it is a void. You, I, we are Omedams, or human beings. Very briefly this is why we exist: Law(OM) - and(E) - Fullfillment(DAM) aka HUMAN. The lifeform omedam is the fullfillment of the Law of Creation in order of its own evolution. The human form is created for the purpose to evolve Creation itself by means of countless lives in the material realm and after that as a pure-spiritform by countless transformations in the spiritual realm until re-unification of the spiritform with Creation so that Creation benefits from the spirits knowledge and wisdom and evolves itself a little more. Salome! Reece Stiller | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 503 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dear Zhila, Am very busy right now... There are numerous references but the one that was nearest my fingertips was contact book four Page 179 Sentence 10 of Contact 143 March 22, 1981 concerning the structure of the Universe. | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2004 |
I gotta admit I haven't read much of "the teachings", both because I haven't spent the money on any books, and because (although I hope that they do) I am not sure Plejarans exist anyway. For all I know they could just be a bunch of advanced humans posing as aliens; it has happened before. But I do enjoy posting on this board and contemplating the things that people bring up here. This is generally a group of people who actually think about things to a greater depth than normal, which is nice. So of course I don't subscribe to the paradigm of blind faith in what someone else says. Rather, I tend to take what other people say under advisement. When you learned math as a youngster (presumably everyone here learned at least some math?) mathematical formulaes would be presented to you, along with the proofs that determined these formulaes. Did you not try to determine formulaes for yourself - prove them to be true for yourself - in order to better understand the process of how mathematics functioned? I have been trying to get the fundamentals down. I can't really say whether the universe is a spiraling big band or a flat pancake or a big bubble. I am still working on the more simple, subtle question of how does reality first come into being. I have tried to imagine other models of how the universe came into being, working backwards from the paradigms that I (assume that I) know - and invariably running into the idea of vibrations. Everything seems to have a vibration. Whatever models are presented needs to (in my mind) account for how these vibrations come into being. Additionally, experientally, I have been in some rather non-normal mental states, whether by drugs or by meditating or by near-death experiences or by physical stress and deprivation. From these states I am learned of the fundamental importance of the simplest thing, namely 'love'. In trying to understand these states, and the things I have perceived while in them, I have been consumed with the idea that imagination plays a role not only in perceiving reality, but also in (agreeing with) creation itself. (Wherein 'reality' refers to the obvservable, while 'creation' refers to the process of generating observables.) But this is my mental-trick, I would hope that you don't take it on blind faith. Just as an aside, I think that as life evolves into higher forms it drops away the species-level consciousness, slowly becoming more and more aware of itself as a single entity. The obverse is also true: when we consider lifeforms that are (less evolved?) than ourselves, we should simply think of them as maintaining more of an awareness of themselves as a species, rather than as an individual. For instance, do you consider yourself a man or a woman?, as young or old?, as being of a certain nationality, or philosophy. These are all roles, masks if you will, and examples of a more collectivist perspective. Animals are simply doing the same thing. There does seem to a second level to this collective consciousness paradigm which the human species is approaching. For instance, I have been involved in ceremonies wherein everyone has attained an altered state, wherein one person will start a thought with a sentence or song, another picks it up and adds to it, and another, and another, and so on, until it is expressed. And then you are left wondering who expressed this idea? Who was the originator of it? And how did it happen anyway, since it it can't be explained by our typical concept of identity. I am still not sure what imagination is. There is a story of a child in India who was being taught fundamental mathematics. His teacher said "Alright, start counting at 1 and move next to 2 then 3 then 4 and so on." The boy couldn't move past 1. He sought to understand 1 before he could move to the next concept of sequential numbers. His teacher cojoled him, argued with him, and then got his parents involved trying to get him to move past that first number. Finally, his father got frustrated with the boy and beat him. The boy ran off into woods. He lived in the woods for years, contemplating 1. Then one day, as the teacher was holding class, the boy came wandering out of the woods and into the classroom. Everyone was surprised to see him again, and the teacher asked him, "So, can you count yet?" The boy went to the blackboard at the front of the classroom, and drew a 1 on it. The wall cracked. This story illustrates both how deeply we can understand fundamentals, and how silly it is to do so. I don't know what imagination is exactly, but I enjoy trying to figure it out. Finally, realizing reality is very simple. Simply cease thinking about things for abit, and listen, be aware. This can be both subtle and profound. Or not. Whatever you perceive is your perception. Circular, huh? Just like trying to understand the fundamentals of reality and creation. Love is always the way | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2004 |
The void to which I have refered is not simply empty space that lacks matter or energy. In fact, this seems to not be possible to me. Space comes into existence when there is something to cause into come into existence. Thus, I believe that all of our seemingly empty space is filled with something, though I know not what. Most likely a more subtle form of energy than we have yet measured. The concept of the void is hard to fully grasp because it presents a conceptual paradox. How can nothingness be? I have only been able to understand from a perspective that understands everything, and such knowledge isn't easily translatable to this normal limited consciousness. I only know that before time, the void. Actually, from the loving perspective, there is more than just the void to be concerned with. From this perspective, the big questions are such things as what constitutes life? What is there to understand and how can the understanding of it become more meaningful? The quest for questions... Anyway, this is what I have perceived. It may only serve to explain the thought processes of one man's silly mind. Perhaps it is time I contemplated ice cream for breakfast. : ) Love is always the way | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2008 |
Zhila, Randy, the Contact Report Randy is talking about is the 143rd one in which Semjase talks about the structure of Creation: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_143 The Creation is a double spiral 7 structure. The image in that contact is just a schematic representation! Semjase: 41. Of course, the universe is, in reality, egg-shaped and not round as we show it here schematically, and also, the information given to you doesn't correspond to those measures that exist in the universe. Sitkaa, according to the information from the Plejaren and Billy, the void is filled with pure spiritual energy as I mentioned. Spiritual energy is explained here and here. Every single question of yours is found within the FIGU material; in the contact reports, books, etc. If you don't have the intention of studying the material, or even realising the truth or falseness of the Billy Meier case, then no-one can help you. Salome. Reece Stiller | ||
Indi Member Post Number: 349 Registered: 06-2006 |
Re DNA strands: Could the 7 belts that make up the structure of the Creation/Universe be what Randy is referring to rather than DNA strands? It is written in eg., Existentes Leben im Universum, p. 278 and Contact Block 2 that although the diagram as drawn by Semjase of Creation resembles a circle, it is not really that shape, but instead is a spiral of energy, the seven belts spiraling in a double mutually rotating manner. I guess, the pic of the spiral universe, looks like DNA - maybe that is where the confusion came from? there is more to the story of this diagram of the spiral Universe diagram given to Billy by a Professor Slomann. I have more info on this spiral diagram and its origins but have not finished my research at this time. Til later! Robyn | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 262 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hi Sitkaa ; This may sound boring to you , but the heart of the spiritual teachings is about thought feeling and actions . The scientific information is kind of like te science of guns ; they perform certain useful actions , but in the wrong hands can be disastrous . The heart of the Meier material is the spiritual teachings , not the scientific knowledge , however important that that may seem . MC | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 368 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Reece, Thanks for providing this helpful information which was actually the source of my statement concerning the double spiral. Well then, my friend Randy; As I was under the right assumption, the model is correct and does not need modification. The Creation is indeed "a double spiral seven structure." as mentioned by Semjase. In my reference, I was talking about the spirals who are double while you were probably referring to the seven structures; two completely different aspects if you will. This is just to set the record straight; however, please do correct me if you still think I am wrong. Salome with Love, Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
Rarena Member Post Number: 505 Registered: 10-2005 |
After rereading contact 143 I could find no reference to Creation being a DOUBLE seven spiral, only a seven spiral. Could someone please tell me where exactly they found reference to a "double" seven spiral? Salome | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2004 |
I have read that this is a philosophically arguable question: whether it is possible to determine the limits of the universe and its structure from within the universe. I believe it is possible to learn about it, but in this particular instance, it may be that there is no absolute form that the universe takes. Rather, its structure may be function of preconditioned perceptions, whether built upon an intricate and systemic logical deductions, or not. I might decide that the universe is shaped like a beautiful chocolate birthday cake, with lots of vanilla frosting and little wax candles all aglow, and who is it that could say that I am wrong? Seriously, other than taking an expert's word for it (not that there is anything wrong with that...), how else can we know? As for reading more about the Plejarans, yes I enjoy reading about them. But I don't see how it can be proved to me (without a shadow of a doubt) that they are who they say they are, given our current levels of interaction. Not that it really matters to me. Apparently of necessity, we cannot know too much about them, nor interact with them, until more of humanity is on the same page philosophically, spiritually, maturely. It may be awhile. I agree that the real value of what is presented here is the spiritual wisdom that is presented. Developing a better 'me' is my goal as well. Of course, at the rate I am going it could be awhile. Thanks for the links. I will read them over here in abit. : ) Changing the topic slightly, how do we integrate concerns about creating into our everyday lives? I have read (I think it was a concept proposed by the Iargans) that creating is what there is to do while living a life, that what we create is our only lasting legacy, as well as our joy in life. So with that in mind, how can we integrate this creational concept into our lives? It is something I have been thinking about lately, all the more so because I personally don't have many skills for creating a lasting legacy, except perhaps to organize and to write. So, what do you create in your life? Fine furniture? Good music? Revolutionary impulses among the sheeple? What is your lasting legacy? Can you bring to fruition your joy? At the end of the day, (at least for us living, breathing entities) is that not what creationism boils down to? Love is always the way | ||
Sitkaa Member Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2004 |
Marksmanr, The Kybalion puts it very nicely - it reads like poetry to me. Thanks, m Love is always the way | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2008 |
Dear Randy, I think I got it from here: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/File:Creationspiral.jpg As you can see it is a double spiral and the 7 refers to the seven belts. I just found another reference. From Contact Report 228, page 472: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_228#Pages_472_to_478 Billy: Our scientists also have no idea that the entire universe constitutes a double spiral and egg shaped Creation, and so on. Reece Stiller | ||
Creational Member Post Number: 369 Registered: 09-2008 |
Dear Randy, Here are the references for both the double spiral and seven structures that are different aspect altogether. Reference 1: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_228 Contact Report 228 Pages 472 to 478 Billy: “… Our astronomical scientists…Our scientists also have no idea that the entire universe constitutes a double spiral and egg shaped Creation, and so on. The entire …” Reference 2: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/File:Creationspiral.jpg “The double spiral structure of the Creation “ Reference 3: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/File:Creation.gif “The structure of the Creation according to the Plejaren.” Salome, Zhila, Thank you Billy. | ||
Marksmanr Member Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hahaha we both had almost identical posts!  Reece Stiller | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1086 Registered: 10-2007 |
*** *  SYNCHRONICITY works it's magic again.  * *** TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE Find What You Seek ~ Rod |
