| Author |
Message |
   
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 946
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 05:15 am: | 
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*****
Hi Jonzie,
That would be considered as a useful analogy.
I prefer to amend that slightly: We, each one, IS the Spirit which HAS the material body. As Spirit, you and I do not die. It is the body only which dies.
I think of the process more like leaving a car along side the road when it finally wears out. Then I'll go outside of time a while and take care of more important business, like storing up my most meaningful experiences, thoughts and growth into the CCB (Comprehensive Consciousness Block).
When my New car is ready, some 21-days after my 'new' parents have shared LOVE together, I'll drop-in, see how it fits (too small, at first) then take out for a ~ 100-year Test-Drive.
This is only another analogy for the Reincarnation Cycles.
The key thought here is: "I am a Spirit which has a Body."
In Peace ... Salome
*****
You say you want an Evolution, well you know, we're all doing what we can. -(Beatles revamped)
Rod
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Mqhassan
Member
Post Number: 70
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 12:48 pm: |
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Rod, Phi-Spiral, Edward
The Spirit could also be considered as a unit of intelligence in the universe , so one can consider it as a quantized value ( Spirit quanta ), like the time quanta. It could also have a nice cycle with creation . I am investigating into this and it seems initially that the numbers would also fit nicely into the Plajaran model of the Universe.
Hope to hear from you soon, with some comments on the REV4 work
Salome
Mohammed (mqhassan) |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 656
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 09:53 am: |
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The spirit itself has no intelligence and is nothing more than a power source which is a part of Creation. The consciousness forms are the source of intelligence and those are in turn powered by the spirit. So the spirit is in no way a unit of intelligence.
Just to clear things up a bit :-) |
Mqhassan
Member
Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 10:50 am: |
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Thomas,
Thank you for correcting the terminology.
Being part of creation one can approximate that we have several million intelligent species civilizations in the galaxy.
If you take an order of magnitude estimate of around One Billion humans (intelligent species) per given planet, the we end up with a number in the order 10^15 per galaxy as a maximum. One may relate this with the number of galaxies in Creation and reach the power of 10^57 to 10^60 range which is quite interesting when considering other parameters I have mentioned in the Analysis of the the Plejaren Model of the universe.
Kindly send me your personal email to which I can send you the REV4 of this analysis, I have been working on for some time
Salome
Mohammed |
Stephen_moore
Member
Post Number: 119
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 04:54 pm: |
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Hi Thomas
Im abit confused about the Human Spirit
If the Human Spirit is just a power source then that would suggest to me that it does not matter that Billy's Spirit, for example, is a much older Spirit and would also suggest to me that even a young Spirit could do the things Billy does.
My understanding is the Human Spirit gains wisdom from the storage banks and over a course of many life times the spirit evolves to become wise.
In the Talmud Jmmanuel there is this.
5. The newly generated spirit is part of Creation itself, however, it is unknowing down to the smallest iota.
6. When a new spirit is created, which is still unknowing in every way, it lives in a Human body and begins to learn.
7. Persons may consider the unknowing spirit/consciousness as stupid and say that the individual is confused.
8. But it is not, because it is only unknowing and devoid of knowledge and wisdom.
9. Thus may this new spirit/consciousness live life within a Human Being in order to gather knowledge.
10. Then, when this spirit/consciousness enters the beyond, it is no longer as unknowing as it was at the time of its beginning.
11. And it returns into the world and lives again as a Human Being but is no longer quite as unknowing as it was at its beginning.
12. Again it learns and gathers further knowledge and new wisdom, and thereby increasingly escapes from ignorance.
13. So, after many renewed lives, the time comes when people say that this spirit/consciousness is normal and not confused.
14. But this is neither the end of the spirit/consciousness nor its fulfilment, because, having become knowing, it now seeks the greatest wisdom.
15. Thus, the Human Being perfects himself so extensively that he unfolds in a Creational manner and ultimately becomes one with creation, as it was destined from the earliest beginning.
16. Thus, Creation has brought forth a new spirit, allowing it to be perfected independently in the Human body. The perfected spirit returns to Creation to become one with it, and in this manner Creation perfects itself within itself, for in it is the knowledge and wisdom to do so.
Also
Excerpt from Interview with Billy (1998)
http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_(1998)#Is_it_true_that_humans_have_more_than_one_life.3F
That is correct. Humans are subject to the law of reincarnation; hence, they are born again. This also applies to all other life forms that possess both a consciousness and a spirit form capable of evolving. Therefore, when human beings die, their spirit form leaves their physical bodies in the current realm and crosses over into the spiritual realm of the Beyond, where the spirit form rests and learns until it is able to reincarnate into another material body. The purpose for having reincarnation and numerous lives is to allow both the human spirit form - which is part of Creation - and the comprehensive consciousness to evolve to the point where together they enter into and become one with Creation, which Itself evolves at the same time. This constant process of reincarnation facilitates the evolution of the person's spirit and the comprehensive consciousness, from which the individual's actual personality and the actual consciousness originate.
Also the Arahat Athersata and above level are pure spirit forms and a collective consciousness. If the spirit does not contain any knowledge/wisdom then any spirit could go into the Arahat Athersata level.
From my own understanding I have interpreted the that the spirit is a power source but also gains wisdom from many lives and through the storage banks and our sub conciousness.
thanks
My Website - www.ufofacts.co.uk
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 658
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 09:21 pm: |
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Hi Stephen, firstly the word spirit in the Talmud was used in place of cons= ciousness because it reduced confusion.=A0 BEAM himself has said this and I= believe it is also on this forum somewhere.=A0 The spirit itself is only a= n energy source and it is the comprehensive consciousness block that gains = wisdom until the moment when the CCB fuses with the spirit itself and the t= wo become one and the need for a material body no llonger exists.=A0 There = is much you haven't read and that is why the material seems contradictory a= t times but it isn't. |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 659
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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My email is
patricksdadinfrance at yahoo.com
Thomas |
Paarth
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 11:39 am: |
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Hello all,
I can't imagine this question has not been asked and answered before, but I can't find an answer yet so please indulge me if you can:
If pure spirit forms (i.e. Arahat Athersata, Petale, etc) continue to evolve through their own creative energy without the need for a physical body (as Billy has said before), then why would we need material bodies in the first place if our spirits could gather knowledge and evolve without material existence as do higher forms of spirit levels?
I realize that some of you may respond and say "well our billions of material lives get us to the point where our spirit forms can then carry out 'self-evolution'" but this is a cop-out because each of our spirit forms is already a part of creation and just records information if I'm not mistaken. The spirit does not actually evolve, our material consciousness does.
Any takers?
Please Edward, spare us all with a pseudo-expert analysis that is later intended to corroborate a true knowledgable explanation. Thanks.
Paarth |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 748
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 01:51 am: |
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Paarth, according to BEAM's explanations your interpretation of the spirit and consciousness would be incorrect since the spirit also involves and the material consciousness is dissolved after processing between lives. The idea is that the spirit starts completely ignorant. Creation doesn't give the spirit more than basic capabilities because the spirit must evolve its own strengths in order to add to Creation's own. If Creation merely gave each spirit its own information, there would be no individuality (thus individual creativity) and there would be nothing added to Creation. Creation creates spirit forms in order to add to itself, not just to multiply.
That is my understanding of the basics regarding what you are asking about.
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Kingman
Member
Post Number: 685
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 07:12 am: |
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Paarth,
First can you expound on this part you wrote;
"The spirit does not actually evolve, our material consciousness does."
I don't want to misinterpret you here.
Otherwise....
At its creation, this universe was complete in all the spiritual levels as the material belt came into being. For this creation to evolve towards even greater perfection, it needs the actual living experiences(wisdom, etc.) created thru the spirit-being evolving from its coupling with a consciousness capable, physical humanoid-type being(and other things required). Thus expanding its(universe) wisdom.
It is then explained that after this universe completes/sleeps/then becomes into existence again, it will be without a material plane and evolution of the spirit will evolve without the need to incarnate. So you question can be answered with a yes, it can evolve without a body, just not this time around.
These are short and incomplete reply's to your post.
There are answers about this if you searched properly, and not just at this site.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Adysor
Member
Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 12:44 pm: |
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Hi,
I had question related to this subject.
Kingman, you say "[the spirit] can evolve without a body, just not this time around."
My question is when and how is the transition where the spirit evolves on its own, without a physical body?
Adrian.
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Adysor
Member
Post Number: 178
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 12:50 pm: |
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Also, I want to add a quote from recent Questions to Billy answered:
"The spirit form does not learn, but cumulating everything into higher energy. The learning process happens within the consciousness. The spirit form does not change from life to life."
Thomas and Kingman, you didn't do your homework it seems... Billy said this, BEAM said that. Not only that's not what he said, but it's not even your honest opinion.
Adrian.
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 752
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 09:04 pm: |
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Adrian I have done my homework on this info for 19 of my 39 years in this life and you have only read a small amount apparently. BEAM ALSO says that yes the consciousness does the learning but that this info is what contributes to the spiritual consciousness which remains passive until enough evolution, love, wisdom, and info has been gathered such that the comprehensive consciousness block can join with the spirit, turning the latter into a conscious consciousness. And you are right when you imply that I don't know this first hand. I never claimed to.
You are a little combative in your posts. If you want to learn, then a different tone might serve you better. If you want to argue, I will not respond any further to your posts...
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Adysor
Member
Post Number: 182
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:27 am: |
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To argue is to learn Thomas, these are just words...
I don't think there is a specific tone in learning but I'll try.
Maybe that "Homework" phrase which you found offending was for the many posts you had and the much information you "learned"...And I, a "new-be" comes and quotes from BEAM himself to contradict your understanding...It felt good, a bit. My bad though.
It seems that our "dispute"/arguing led us to the conclusion that we were both wrong to some degree about the subject in matter. So we learned/relearned something after all...(or maybe you already knew this but you weren't able to express it exactly?)
Arguing is not useless.
Adrian.
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Kingman
Member
Post Number: 686
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:43 am: |
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Adrian,
Just post your info you've 'homeworked' regarding this discussion. I'm interested in your findings.
a friend in america
Shawn
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Adysor
Member
Post Number: 184
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 10:53 am: |
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It is right above....
Just forget it. You are both right at some point.
BEAM says clearly that the spirit form itself does not evolve. But it absorbs knowledge as higher energy. "The learning process happens within the consciousness."
Paarth's statement is somehow correct in our situation "The spirit does not actually evolve, our material consciousness does." maybe the "material consciousness" is not entirely correct but should be the consciousness block.
If the spirit would evolve (starts off ignorant and evolves), then it should change; here BEAM says, "The spirit form does not change from life to life"
Adrian.
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 02:35 am: |
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Hi Shawn and Adrian....
You BOTH...have studied the Meier Materials very Excellently!!
You both put it all into Focus, and as it is!
The Spirit IS...the - Battery/Life Force -...and It IS....NOT the
MaterialConsciousness/Brain, which Evolves. It IS...indeed, the -
Consciousness -(of the/this Creational "Duality") -...which Evolves, and is
Processed.
The Spirit(Battery/Life Force) does NOT Change from life to life. Because it
only provides the Life Force/Power for the Consciousness (and the Human body),
when present, to function. The Spirit(Battery/Life Force) - Power Load -, if
you will, may/can vary, due to certain conditions, but in general it is in a
standard state/load.
The (Life Force/Power) Load, is also dependent, in how the human/individual
utilizes his/her body. Which can even weaken the Spirit(Force/load). And so,
the human must - regenerate - him/her-self, to obtain and regain the Balance
within his/her Spirit(Battery/Power-/load).
The Material Consciousness/Brain, does Not Evolve! In a life time it only -
Absorbers - Information, and Expands while accumulating information; Brain
blocks and lobes, and as our THINKING tool(; as Billy once mentioned: one
component that still grows within a human body, than it is: The Brain), to
mobilize One's human body, etc. It is just a "temporary tool", if you like.
When your Brain/Material Consciousness dies, with the body, it does NOT
process any accumulated information, what-so-ever! It just turns into: "Ashes
to ashes....dust to dust..."
Edward. |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 12:38 pm: |
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*****
Best Greetings In Peace
Adrian,
Here then, is some reference for your consideration in the difference of the Material Consciousness, The Consciousness Block, and the Unconscious Spirit Consciousness. These are each three different, yet interrelated aspects of the Human Being.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
This first comes from a Post by Thomas: ...
[ Found the quote from BEAM I was referring to in the Q and A section:
[ Hi Billy
[ It was mentioned that a spirit will be in an unconscious consciousness state until it reaches the level of Arahat Athersata.
[ As your spirit was returned from Arahat Athersata, where your spirit already achieved a conscious consciousness with a personality, I would guess that being a human, your spirit will again be in an unconscious state just like all other human on earth, this is to prevent the conflict between spiritual and material consciousness.
[ My question is: After you passed away from this earth, would your spirit regain that conscious consciousness state, where your spirit can decide where to go, what to do, when to reincarnate again?
Savio
[ Answer
[ The spirit is always in a state conscious/aware of itself (in einem sich selbst bewussten Zustand).
It was the consciousness that had to start from scratch again.
[ It’s not the spirit that decides „where to go, what to do, etc.“.]
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
This Post from Robin includes explanations from both Jacob and Hans: ...
[ Hi Thomas
[ I personally get great pleasure meandering through all the information on material and spiritual consciousness, trying to make clear understandings of it all -- but it can become quite confusing -- especially when things are written in German, translated from German, written by German speaking people in English, and written by people from other languages eg., Dutch, like Jacob/Jakob/Jakobjn is, translating from German to Dutch and then to English.
[ In all that, things can get lost, changed, transformed, and convoluted to say the least.
[ This topic could be one of those. And, to make it more interesting I will offer you something you have already read from Jacob, and another snippet from Hans on the German forum, which should open up the confusion a little more -- although, it offers a clue to what the real story is
[ Firstly, this is what Jacob had to say on this forum:
[ The Spirit form of material human beings does not have a conscious spirit consciousness, but an UNCONSCIOUS spirit consciousness.
[ It's only conscious in a way that it can learn from logical impulses, but it can't make conscious decisions like people can do in the material realm.
[ Humans have in their material lives an ego based self-aware consciousness, while the spirit has an unconscious spirit consciousness.
[ If the spirit would be self-conscious like the material consciousness, it would absolutely try to control the material consciousness, because the material consciousness, aka the Personality, has a habit of NOT following the Natural Creative Laws and Commandments.
[ As you know, the only way for material creatures to evolve is to make mistakes and to learn from them. Making a mistake is per definition, a positive or a negative thought/action, and that is impossible for an absolute logical structure like the Spirit.
[ In this case, the spirit would block the material consciousness from making mistakes, but that would cause a stagnation and a paradox situation, and the material consciousness would be unable to learn and provide the spirit of new knowledge and wisdom. ]
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
[ And now here is something Hans said that just offers a direct statement, that changes my understanding quite completely, hopefully in the correct direction. And, of course, as with all this, it finally is beginning to make sense:
[ Die Geistform ist keine Bewusstseinsform sondern jene Kraft, die alles ermöglicht und am Leben und in Funktion hält. Sie wird nicht aus dem Bewusstsein heraus erschaffen sondern sie ermöglicht dem Bewusstsein und jeglichen weiteren Vorgängen im Menschen die Funktion.
[ Hans
[ And here is my unofficial translation of that segment:
[ The spirit form is not a consciousness form but a power, which makes it possible to maintain life and function for everything.
It is not created out of consciousness, but it makes the function possible for the consciousness and each further processes in the human being. ]
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Both of these Posts may be found together on the following page reference: ...
Discussionboard of FIGU » The Spiritual Teachings » Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks » Archive through June 29, 2008
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
The Material Consciousness of a New Spiritform in it's initial (beginning) incarnations, has nothing in the Consciousness Block for reference to draw upon. Therefore, The first several hundreds of lifetimes are in a purely 'survival' mode -- a state of Spiritual ignorance, and a state learning the basic social adaptive skills for physical survival.
With each death the knowledge, wisdom, and life experiences are stored in the Consciousness Block. This is in the form of an "Spirit-Energy Pattern" which is accessible to the Material Unconsciousness in the following lives. Then, with each new reincarnation, the Consciousness Block gains more and more accumulation of knowledge, wisdom, love, and experiences, with yet more to pass back to the new reincarnated Material Unconsciousness.
The Material Consciousness gains in understanding when it gains the skills to access the knowledge of the Material Unconsciousness and increasing access to the Psyche. The Psyche is interrelated with the Spirit Unconscious Consciousness. All Logical growth (growth in Logic) passes directly through the Psyche to the Unconscious Spirit Consciousness. No false Knowledge can pass this way, for only Logic and Truth is recognized by the Material Unconsciousness and by the Spirit. Only what you learn that is Truth in each lifetime is carried forward into the Consciousness Block for your further Evolution.
Then your own Material Consciousness Will Evolve and grow in this lifetime, contributing to your continuing Spiritual Evolution in the following lifetimes. It will be when you have Evolved sufficiently, then your Consciousness Block will be "downloaded" (the Spirit-Energy Pattern is merged WITH the Spirit), all accumulated Knowledge, Love, Wisdom & experiences from all the many Millions of your prior lifetimes become one with a now Conscious Spirit Consciousness.
If You think and meditate on this, it will all become clear for you.
Salome
*****
TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE
Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Kingman
Member
Post Number: 687
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 01:59 pm: |
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Edward and Rod show their homework! Nicely done.
Adrian?
a friend in america
Shawn
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Paarth
Member
Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 08:15 pm: |
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Thank you for your insightful comments.
I guess what I meant with my initial question was a bit more basic: why does the Creation or Absolute Void for that matter need to create a material universe in order to evolve when all that IS or EVER WAS is contained in the knowledge and wisdom of the Absolute Absolutum (or Void)? I know that Billy has said that we cannot comprehend the Absolutum, but it doesn't hurt to try...
I do appreciate all of the discussion above, that helps to solidify an understanding of the components of our BEING, but still leaves somewhat of a deep hole in understanding regarding the reason for all of this, for life, for stars, planets, the darkness of space, for universes upon universes, for time and space itself, for even the spirit energies that exist in all of us, for the organization and need for order through creative laws and commandments, for cycles of expansion and contraction, for the existence of fine spiritual energy, for the whole deal. When ALL is said and done (through endless eternity of evolutive cycles), what is the purpose? Or better yet, what is the need for purpose itself? |
Victor
New member
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:34 am: |
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allo, it's a game. maybe that one of reasons for need and purpose? |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 520
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 08:45 am: |
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Paarth, whomever you are...
The material and spiritual consciousness are connected to each other and inseparable at this stage of our evolution.
The spiritual consciousness improves with each lifetime.
You would be wise to listen to Edward who very knowledgeable about this area of the Meier material. |
Adysor
Member
Post Number: 186
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 09:29 am: |
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Shawn,
What is it you want?
Adrian.
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