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Archive through November 28, 2009

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Mqhassan
Member

Post Number: 82
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 09:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas,

That is right, however light speed varied from 147C and will go down to 1/897 of its current value by the time Creation reaches its maximum size. so I believe that all forces and the plank and Gravitational constants could have been effected throughout the overall expansion process

salome

Mohammed
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 770
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a reminder that those equations apply only to the material universe wh= ich is a tiny portion of all Creation :-)
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...gravity is limited to lightspeed."

Then gravity diminishes over space and time to the point where it is nullified? How then might the collision of galaxies be explained? Do gravitic forces travel that far at lightspeed?
Love is always the way
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Mqhassan
Member

Post Number: 83
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas ,

If we approve the idea that there are seven forces instead of four, then the terms of material and spiritual would dissolve into one continuum from the known material coarse matter to the finest spiritual energy. However energy and mass are interchangable and even if the finest spiritual energy is very very fine, one should in principle be able to determine its density.

I attempted to find the coarse matter universe mass estimate including some basic dark matter and ended with 10^57 solar masses from the number of galaxies provided to us by the Plejarans.

Another mass estimate was calculated assuming a closed system with 10^64 light years. That is the equation used for black holes in general, however it resembles a closed system in which the fundamentals of physics apply even when there are unknown parameters inside.

Interestingly the resulting overall mass was in the order of 10^76 Solar masses.

The difference indicate that the fifth and sixth belts would make for this mass difference

The resulting 10^19 ratio although seemingly unacceptable, does provide a very interesting result, that most of the mass lies in the outer non material universe and that its average density is a very low 10^-127 of the material fourth belt universe.

This number could easily be neglected and considered to be zero, by our present understanding in a four force universe. However this very small number seems to be consistent with what scientists call the greatest enigma with the cosmological constant in which calculations with observations show a discrepancy of 10^120 !

Is this all a coincidence or are we reaching something very important ?

I will leave it to the forum members for something to think about

Salome

Mohammed}
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J_rod7
Member

Post Number: 1128
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*****

Best Greetings All, Peace Be With You

In respect to this ongoing and interesting discussion on Black Holes, aka Singularities, and aka "Collapsars," here are some reference materials for our continuing education: ...

This first link is by Matt McIrvin of Harvard University, last updated 02-FEB-1995. Text in this file is NOT copyrighted, from --

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest/gifcity/bh_pub_faq.html

This second link is an abstract = Unified first law of black-hole dynamics and relativistic thermodynamics, from --

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0264-9381/15/10/017

This last is a PDF document: Black Hole Dynamics: A Survey of Black Hole Physics from the Point of View of Perturbation Theory, from Nils Andersson, Department of Mathematics, University of Southampton, from: --

http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/20/269-280.pdf

Once there is an understanding of these basic premiss, we may progress deeper into the exploration. These altogether may form a "buffet of meat" for further discussion of this wonder of Creation -- the Singular region of Creation Energy in the life and death of our material Universe, we call the Black Hole.

In Peace -- Salome

*****

TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE

Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 771
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ask BEAM your questions since he knows more than i
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Markcampbell
Member

Post Number: 296
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 02:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Thomas ;

I would seem that gravity does dissipate over distance , of course .

I didn't get to reply to your post in another section ....anyway , we all speed or walk our way toward the union of all things zussamen .

Salome , Mark
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 03:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All....


Thank you all, for your gracious input.

Thank you, very much to those with very Wise Words, of True Creational Values;
of her (Spiritual) Teachings. [Indeed: WE DO tent to turn away from TRUE
Creational Spiritual Teachings, when we disagree; when this IS our foremost
Resolvent mechanism to suppress our 'Aggression Gene'. Please keep this in
mind?]

Hector and Smukhuti are the WARMEST!

Thank you, again.

Pleasant Studying....


Edward.
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 772
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 05:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Mark I guessed I missed your other post. I will look for it but if you point out the link it will be faster...

It wasn't intentional but things have been busy here lately :-)

Thomas
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 773
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 05:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops Mark, I misread your post. You didn't respond to my post. Goofed on my part but honestly I don't recall which post I wrote now ;-)

Thanks either way and have a great day!

Thomas
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Paarth
Member

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find the most tactful way and humane way to acknowledge the total BS of certain members that get a kick out of hypocritically judging others and making completely ridiculous false statements about technical spiritually complex matters like Black Holes and its relationship to Creation without the willingness to back them up with sources is to ignore their posts. While everyone is equal in value, there is certainly a huge spectrum on this board, that appears to have no correlation with amount of time posting, length of posts, number of posts, age, or other variables that have been used implicitly to bolster the credibility of an individual or specific piece of information.

So basically, when Edward spews the kind of BS that we are used to hearing without backing up his false statements, I don't get frustrated like I used to and just move on to the next post, hoping that as time goes on, there will be no need for these kinds of arguments as the wheat is separated from the chaffe with regards to knowledge and a lack thereof. It is the personal responsibility of every person to be accountable for the information they post just as it is with their spoken words, especially when answering a question from another person who seeks truth from others on this site.

If no one can find an appropriate souce to back up the clearly outrageous and false claim by Edward that "Black Wholes DO become NEW Universes/Creations!!!" followed by an emphatic "Billy, explains this LOUD and CLEAR!!!", then he is solely responsible for the self-imposed insults, trampling, and ego-smashing posts that he deserves for not acknowlegding his own errors and learning from them and the discussion as a whole just as others contribute and learn. For those who feel sorry for him and try to insult and judge others for making truth a priority, the shame lies squarely with you for helping to propagate a festering fungating cyber-argument that undoubtedly will continue as long as the ego drives an urge to post, rather than verifiable knowledge delivered in trust and fellowship with sources to back it up. My opinion of course.

Warmest wishes in the pursuit of knowledge and growth together, I for one get a lot out of many of the posts, especially when I can go back to a source and interpret the teachings and beautiful priceless information in my own way.

Paarth
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Smukhuti
Member

Post Number: 93
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Sitkaa,

Here is my understanding:

quote:

Then gravity diminishes over space and time to the point where it is nullified? How then might the collision of galaxies be explained? Do gravitic forces travel that far at lightspeed?



Gravity is caused by perturbation of space by any object having mass – just like when a heavy stone is placed in a trampoline. Rotate the trampoline 360 degree in 3 dimensions around the stone, and you have the space curvature around the stone. As the stone move over the trampoline, waves are formed. The cosmic analogy to this is the gravitational wave moving out at light speed.

Gravity travels as wave just as sound travels. The difference being that sound travels at speed of sound and (effect of) gravity travels at light speed. So for example, if there is a huge black hole that is formed whose event horizon is 500 light year from earth, earth would not be able to feel its gravity for 500 year. But its effect would be negligible in the beginning as earth is so far away from the black hole that the Amplitude of the wave (force) decreases to minimum. So gravity between the black hole and earth is null for 500 years starting the time when the black hole was created and some negligible value on or after 500 years progressively increasing as the earth nears the black hole. In other word, gravity has a finite range in a finite time but also it has infinite range over infinite time .

The distance between 2 nearest galaxies is in the range of several tens of millions of light year. So gravity between 2 galaxies take effect only after several million years after their first creation – a cosmic blink of an eye when you consider that Universe is 47 trillion years old.

Contrary to popular believe, gravitational force between two bodies are same (F=ma). So if a person jumps from a plane to earth, the force exerted by earth on the person is same as the force exerted by the person on earth, but earth, being on greater mass accelerates much less (near zero) towards the person than the person accelerates towards earth. This is just like a string been attached between the person and the earth which flexes and stretches till the two bodies merge - rather the lighter body merge with the much more heavier body.

Salome
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Phi_spiral
Member

Post Number: 467
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rod from post #1124: “The Galaxy has literally Millions of Black Holes, besides the Giant one at the core -- "the Central Sun."

Hi Rod. It is my understanding that the Central Sun and the black hole at the center of the galaxy are two different things.

There’s a discussion between Semjase and Billy in Contact 69 describing the central sun as wild gas atoms bubbling in unordered form inside the galaxial storm, creating new atomic compounds and separate themselves spiral-form like out to the outer regions of the center. And seen from the Earth, the central sun or central galaxy appears like an immense and immeasurable flash, which constantly enlarges itself. There are no defined borders to it. And the galaxy itself is formed from this central sun, not the black hole.

Also, in Block 5, there can be found a discussion about the different influences on weather and climate events of the earth, where the central sun and the central black hole are clearly two different things.
The 7 things that influence the weather are:
1. Earth movement influence
2. Geomagnetism influence
3. Lunar influence
4. Solar influence
5. Cosmic influence
6. Central sun influence
7. Black hole influence

Kind regards
Bob
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Markcampbell
Member

Post Number: 298
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Thomas ;

Oh , so your'e like me , you have CRS .

Mark
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Hector
Member

Post Number: 531
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 02:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Edward, "The pleasure is mine"....it's a honor for me to share some lines with all of you.
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 774
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CRS?!?=A0 Should I ask??? LOL!!!
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 775
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From where do you know the true nature of gravity as a wave if I may ask?
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Darren
Member

Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paarth, well said! Ed's behaviour (at times) is also typical of a plant too; spewing forth disinfo. Just something else to consider. (anyone else would have been embarressed with all the repremands and stopped by now, but not him)
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Smukhuti
Member

Post Number: 95
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 06:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I learnt about Gravitational waves from textbooks on General relativity and internet articles. Another source was Stephen Hawkins "A brief History of Time" and "From big bang to black hole". Plus I did some self study when I was studying Electrical Engineering in College. There are dozens of good videos in youtube about general relativity and gravitational waves.

It's rather interesting subject which you can read in your free time. For a start, refer http://www.gothosenterprises.com/gravitational_waves/

Salome
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J_rod7
Member

Post Number: 1129
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*****

Best Greetings All

Bob,
Thank You for the clarification, I had some confusion myself there in respect to the Black Hole at the galactic Core and the Great Central Sun. From our perspective here on Earth, there appears a very bright light emanating from the center of the great bulge of stars at the Core of the Milky Way. There are literally hundreds-of-millions of stars in close proximity to each other within a few thousand light-years of the Core, all orbiting at higher and higher velocities approaching near the center.

The "engine" driving all those stars, and the Galaxy as a whole, is the 4-Million-Solar-mass Black Hole at the Core. The brightness, of course, comes from the great agglomeration of live Stars. A different form of radiation, much more intense and higher in frequencies, comes from the accretion disk of the central Black Hole. The Earth passes through the plane of the accretion disk every 25,860-years (one-Zodiacal-year) as our Solar system bobs up and down in it's 220-Million-year orbit around the Core.

Here are words from Semjase: ...

[ 176. This is the initial phase of the "Golden Age", the transition phase of 184 years.
[ 177. The culmination of this period will come in 2028 (our years).
[ 186. The origin of this epochal change is in the radiation effect of the huge central sun around which your system circles once in 25,860 years and passes through 12 epochs within the meaning of your astrologer’s Zodiacs.
[ 187. The Earth has already touched the outer borders of the "Golden Radiation" of the central sun, which are of the strongest and most revolutionary radiation.] -- Contact 9

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_9


As Semjase has said (Ln 187) "the strongest and most revolutionary radiation." We need to consider the source, type of Radiation and it's impact on Earth. ...

Cosmic-ray volleys from the galactic center and their recent impact on the earth environment (Abstract):

[ It is proposed that outbursts of cosmic ray electrons from the Galactic Center penetrate the Galaxy relatively undamped and are able to have a major impact on the Solar System through their ability to vaporize and inject cometary material into the interplanetary environment.

[ It is suggested that one such superwave, passing through the Solar System toward the end of the Last Ice Age, was responsible for producing major changes in the Earth's climate and for indirectly precipitating the terminal Pleistocene extinction episode.

[ The intensities of the Galactic nonthermal radio background and diffuse X-ray emission ridge are shown to vary with Galactic longitude in the same manner as electron intensity along the proposed superwave event horizon.

[ The high luminosities and unusual structural features which ... coincide with this event horizon and are being externally impacted by an intense volley of relativistic electrons travelling from the Galactic Center direction.] -- source:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/n540w1t3561mvw36/

Q & A = Regarding What the Next Superwave Might be Like

[ If the superwave were to arrive without warning, the first effect would be seismic and then this would be followed by the gamma ray burst and EMP effects. ... ] -- (& much more) source:
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/nextevent.html


Very High Energy Gamma-ray Observations of the Galactic Center with the CANGAROO-II telescope

[ Observations of the Galactic Center are being actively pursued at radio, sub-millimeter, infrared, X-ray and gamma-ray wavelengths. They indicate that the central region contains (amongst other components) a super massive black hole, diffuse hot gas and a supernova remnant. The review of Melia and Falcke provides an excellent summary of the latest results.

[ Emission of high energy gamma-rays from the Galactic Center region still remains to be fully exploited, when compared with observations in the lower energy region. EGRET detected a GeV gamma-ray source at the Galactic Center. However, it is not yet clear that whether it is a point source or a diffuse source. Various theories have suggested for the origin of the high energy emission: the accretion disk around the massive black hole, the radio arc, or supernova remnants. If the high energy radiation continues up to the sub TeV gamma-rays region or has a cut-off in the spectrum in the TeV gamma-ray region, observations with the Imaging Air Cherenkov Telescopes (IACTs) will provide important information to help determine the radiation mechanism.

[ In the northern hemisphere, the Whipple group and the HEGRA group have reported upper limits on the gamma-ray fluxes at 3.1-TeV and 4.5-TeV, respectively.] -- source:
http://dpnc.unige.ch/ams/ICRC-03/FILES/PDF/622.pdf


High Energy Mystery Lurks At The Galactic Centre

[ ScienceDaily (Sep. 27, 2004) — A mystery lurking at the centre of our own Milky Way galaxy - an object radiating high-energy gamma rays - has been detected by an international team of astronomers. Their research, published today (September 22nd) in the Journal Astronomy and Astrophysics, was carried out using the High Energy Stereoscopic System (H.E.S.S.), an array of four telescopes, in Namibia, South-West Africa.

[ The Galactic Centre harbours a number of potential gamma-ray sources, including a supermassive black hole, remnants of supernova explosions and possibly an accumulation of exotic 'dark matter' particles, each of which should emit the radiation slightly differently. The radiation observed by the H.E.S.S. team comes from a region very near Sagittarius A*, the black hole at the centre of the galaxy. According to most theories of dark matter, it is too energetic to have been created by the annihilation of dark matter particles.

[ Dr. Paula Chadwick of the University of Durham said, "We know that a giant supernova exploded in this region 10,000 years ago. Such an explosion could accelerate cosmic gamma rays to the high energies we have seen - a billion times more energy than the radiation used for X-rays in hospitals.] -- (emphasis added /Rod) -- source:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040923092246.htm

Paarth,
Thank You for your thoughtful and compassionate post. Altogether, it would be best to just ignore the 'Blowhards'. The unrepentant deceivers, however, should be denied access to this Forum = lies and deliberate deceptions have no place here.
Darren,
Thank You for making the point: ... [ Ed's behaviour ... spewing forth disinfo. (anyone else would have been embarrassed ... and stopped by now, but not him)]. ANYTHING said to him to correct what he says, is met with obstinate aggressive posturing. I would just advise to ignore everything from that one from now on.

Smukhuti,

You are correct that Gravity propagates in waves. And also, as Thomas expressed, Gravity does propagate at the same velocity as Light. We proved this with the Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA). The last position I held before retirement, was as a RadioTelescope Technician at the facility on St Croix Island (US Virgin Islands). The VLBA spans some 8,000-Miles from St Croix to Hawaii, with eight more scattered across the US Continent. Our opportunity came with a once-in-20-year occlusion of a distant known Quasar by Jupiter. All RadioTelescopes are synchronized with the precision of Hydrogen Masers for accurate compilation with the central computers in Socorro, New Mexico. The relevant PR News release is found at this link: ...
http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2003/gravity/

(note: the NRAO is the National RadioAstronomy Observatory (where my paychecks came from) which built the VLA and the VLBA. I attest from first-hand experience the precision of VLBA observations of our Universe)

In Peace -- Salome

*****

TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE

Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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J_rod7
Member

Post Number: 1129
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

***
*


Two Galaxies which collided. Image produced from combined RadioTelescope array and Optical Telescopes
The red field between them is relativistic Electrons (moving near LightSpeed) stripped from both.
The blue is Hydrogen gasses.

Sgr1


Galactic Center at Sgr A* From VLA RadioTelescope

Sgr2


Wide-field view of our Galaxy

sgr3


The beautiful Creation

Salome

*
***


TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE

Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Sitkaa
Member

Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 06:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps another way to see gravity waves is in a 3 dimensional matrix of resonant fields, since surely the gravity waves interact with one another (as evidenced by galactic gravitational lenses, for but one instance). This model has all sorts of implications, from gravity cancellation to gravity 'lasers'. It would seem to me then that black holes are most simply described as multiple points of matter in complete gravitational agreement, in the resonant sense. Using this model, higher orders of resonant gravitational alignment would be needed to explain the impacts of larger (than atomic) bodies upon upon one another, and by analogy, reaching past the galactic to even the universal level.

However, all of this conjecture still doesn't explain what gravity is, what causes it, why it occurs. If we are to truly understand the order of the universe, we must first understand gravity in every possible way. For instance, is it possible to have mass that gives off no gravitational waves? Gravity seems to me to be a function of energy/matter spinning/traveling through space over time, but that is as much as I know how to explain as yet.

Anybody want to point out how full of it I am?
Love is always the way
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Adysor
Member

Post Number: 211
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The beautiful Creation"

Beautiful and deadly
Adrian.

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