| Author |
Message |
   
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 324
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 07:48 pm: | 
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Hi Edward,
"Sometimes, the materials do not give detailed explanation. And it is here where we do our own Thinking, and unravelling. Which is good. "
I agree, but since the 4-5 days of heaven delusion is not supported with reference so far from the Meier material, I will stick with my post 315.
Salome.
Suv
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:19 am: |
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Hi Dyson & Suv....
Dyson - As far as I know it was within the (3-)4-5 days period. It was
discussed at the old PAR/Pl'sRReal board, at the time. But, the data is no
longer present, alas.
Suv - Well, possibly...you will come across it one day. Like Billy mentioned
many times: It is because they have not been there, yet.
And, of course, NOT the whole life story is played back; relevant excerpts,
would be the case...
Edward. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 1760
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:35 am: |
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Hi Dyson....
Just a supplement:
Of course, with the Global Overpopulation, it can vary. As you may know, there
are Spirit-forms whom reincarnate much sooner and in which the mentioned days
period can no long be applied; logically speaking. So, we have to take that
into account, also.
Perhaps, the processing will not occur to these Spirit-forms? Or, relevant
excerpts 'compressed' into a shorter, time-frame?
But, - Circumstantial Consequences - would play part, here...I would think.
Edward. |
Hector
Member
Post Number: 569
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:47 am: |
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Totally dead = The moment when the spirit leaves the body. If there is no spirit present, we cannot speak of a human being anymore, but a corpse, a cadaver, a decomposing body. According to Figu, the old personality is dissolved into neutral energy in just a fraction of a second. The creation of a fresh, new personality takes much longer, it occurs during pregnancy, it begins at the moment the spirit enters the embryo, and must be finished before birth. The process of "downloading data" corresponding to thoughts, feelings, emotions, to the storage banks does take its time too, and its duration depends on the volume of information to be transferred to the storage banks. Feel free to correct whatever you consider inaccurate. |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 581
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 09:51 am: |
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Since there are differing opinions of this subject matter it might be wise to consider the source.
It is my understanding one of the best sources for this information is: Leben und Tod (Life and Death) Available from FIGU.org Swiss site under quick links: shop.
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1238
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 03:38 pm: |
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***
Hello Randy, Dyson, Hector, and All - Salome
Randy, do you have any idea if or when "Leben und Tod" might be translated into English (for those of us not yet proficient in Deutsch)? I can get little "pieces" from it, but not enough to form comprehensive ideas. If you know anyone has done an "unauthorized" translation, that will be good enough for me.
Dyson, If you have done any work in translation of (parts of) "Leben und Tod", Please = where?
Hi Hector, I have to wonder from your explanation = ["The creation of a fresh, new personality takes much longer, it occurs during pregnancy, it begins at the moment the spirit enters the embryo, and must be finished before birth."] = Which I agree with in most principal. ... I have to wonder about those babies (humans) born 'prematurely'.
My 'intuition' and studies inform me that the personality is 'downloaded' into the brain - in simultaneous formation with the matrix of neuron structure to match - when the Individual Consciousness Block for this life is downloaded (while the Spirit simultaneously takes residence) in the Foetus. (Long winded statement - yes, sorry.)
It will take more 'time' to complete the neuron and synapse construction, to be sure, but the new personality is already developed near the time for the next incarnation and comes together with the Spirit at the 21/22-day after conception. Not so trivial as it may seem. The Spirit has the benefit of its' evolution, yet is denied progress in this new life by being 'premature' (not having all requisite physical completion). Could this be a "chosen path?" What are your thoughts and opinion in this?
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 06:25 pm: |
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Hi all,
I don't think we've done much (or anything) with Leben und Tod (YET!).
It's good to be reminded that the complex ideas, ignorantly and superficially being discussed here, needed entire BOOKS to be described adequately by Billy, so nailing down the details on this English language forum is quixotic at best, in my view.
The PAR list (good riddance!) was a VERY fruitful source of disinformation! The truth was never welcome there, nor were those of us who were stupid enough to try to convey it.
But - really - whether it's 4-5 days or 4-5 milliseconds ... how will that essentially abstract information change the world in 2010?
A lot of this speculation comes across to me as little more than a wasteful escape from the REAL problems, which are fast ganging up on us.
Salome,
Dyson |
Hector
Member
Post Number: 570
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 04:58 am: |
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Hi Rod, I was born prematurely, 7 months so I can speak from "experience"....I don't feel or sense my personality and material consciousness is "handicapped" or "limited" because of my premature birth. I guess (and this is my personal hypothesis, conjecture), that the creation of the new personality is usually finished a few months before birth, otherwise extremely premature babies (up to 23 weeks gestation) could never lead a somewhat normal, decent life. Extremely premature babies usually develop a smaller brain than average and show little/slightly intelectual disadvantages in comparison to non premature babies. Such small limitations should have more to do with pure biological reasons (incomplete organ formation) rather than with the personality being "unfinished" at birth...Just my two cents...
One year ago I asked Billy if the spirit conditioned/determined the baby's birth place and birth date, and he was pretty clear: No. It is not a chosen path. Only pure cause and effect applies to "normal" and premature babies.
Hector
Hi Billy, do you know if the spirit of the foetus may trigger premature births ? (6-7-8 months pregnancy instead of the usual 9 months) I wonder if the spirit in some cases "decides" to abandon the mothers womb earlier, because it "feels" that his time and place to be born has come. Or, on the other hand, those premature births are a pure natural occurrence and the spirit does never determine when/where the baby is born...
Thank you.
The spirit does neither determine nor do anything. Premature births are a natural occurrence, therefore.(Note by CF: permature births are a disorder of the natural pregnancy process and is based on material origins.) |
Justsayno
Member
Post Number: 223
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 08:50 am: |
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http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Chapter_8_-_HUMANITY
Otto Muck - communication with him not possible - 61.116-118
Otto Muck has died and left this world. As such, he is no longer readily addressable. In order to do so, he would have to be disturbed in his present state of existence. It is not allowed for the Plejarens to do this without really deep-seated reasons.
"How the hell would you know what my line looks like, it's imaginary." - my Dad, after being told by the police to walk a straight line.
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 04:22 pm: |
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***
Thank you Hector. Your Q & A with Billy makes it clear.
Peace
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Ramirez
Member
Post Number: 448
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 03:11 am: |
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Hi Justsayno,
"It is not allowed for the Plejarens to do this without really deep-seated reasons."
Another interesting statement and paradox.
If the former consciousness of Otto Muck has been dissolved and his spiritform with it's individual identity but no personality exists somewhere between incarnations ...... who could the Plejaran disturb with deep seated reasons ?
Cheers.
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Justsayno
Member
Post Number: 230
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 08:18 am: |
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By the sounds of it, Ramirez, they can disturb whomever they want.
"How the hell would you know what my line looks like, it's imaginary." - my Dad, after being told by the police to walk a straight line.
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 915
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 09:14 am: |
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His consciousness block!
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 923
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:57 am: |
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A question for Robyn or a request for your opinion at least 
You wrote:
"In the book 'Leben und Tod' page 99, it says that when the spirit leaves the physical body and enters the beyond area, it feels free and peaceful, full of love, due to being released from all earthly material interests."
How does the spirit "feel" anything at all if it is an unconscious entity? As I understood it, only the consciousness block has any forms of consciousness and even the spiritual consciousness forms are unconscious consciousness forms until the level of Arahat Athersat is reached. I thought the spirit itself was only an energy source, or is it the actual "I/me" but without personality/consciousness too?
Any ideas on this Robyn? Thanks for whatever you feel lie adding ^c^
Thomas (Hall to avoid confusion, lol!)
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Hector
Member
Post Number: 580
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 02:29 pm: |
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Hi Thomas, the spirit form somehow "knows" or "senses" that his true "home", its definitive place resides in the spiritual (finematter) realm, and not the material realm. The spirit is preprogrammed since its conception by Creation to reach pure finematerial levels (Arahat Athersata) as soon as possible. It is "longing" the finematter realm because that realm represents the finish line in its evolutionary race.
An analogy: Animals can be exposed at zoos, and they can live and survive there, but their true home, the environment where they really belong and fulfill their evolutionary role is not zoos, it's Nature. This is a personal elucidation, and could be incomplete, inaccurate or ambiguous.... |
Indi
Moderator
Post Number: 462
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:12 pm: |
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Thomas, I agree with what Hector has said. I will add that sensing or experiencing a change of circumstance can happen eg., to the body, whilst a person sleeps, or is unconscious. This information registers unconsciously, and is not dependent on conscious awareness. In the human body as you know, there are many autonomic functions constantly sensing/feeling/experiencing the effects of inner and outer events. They mostly remain outside conscious awareness. I would imagine that the spirit-body has a corresponding facility. So, even though they are unconscious experiences, they are still 'felt' in this sense.
I remember learning that an 'unconscious' part of our consciousness, is aware of all that happens around us and within us, to us, etc... because it is not limited as the conscious mind is, so that even whilst sleeping -- it will know at what exact time a mosquito dive bombed and bit you etc..... This information is not made available to our conscious awareness without specific effort to recall such, which saves the conscious mind from overwhelm.
Robyn |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:37 pm: |
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***
Hola Hector,
I think your analogy is a good example.
Thomas' question, however, still remains open as to any sense of 'feeling' by the Spirit. Perhaps there is some deeper sense with the Gamut of the Spirit, a sense of being released from the bounds (binding) of the Flesh (coarse Energy).
But my thinking is that this does not mean a sense of Emotion. I could be wrong here too, but I interpret "the Spirit feels..." as the expansiveness of release which we are interpreting from this side of the Beyond.
That the Spirit, as fine-Energy, is now freely entered into it's natural Domain -- as a Drop of Water returns to the greater Ocean of Water.
Salome
***
~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 927
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 10:42 pm: |
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Thanks Robyn and Hector but I thought the spirit form wasn't a consciousnes= s form at all and just an energy source.=A0 Is this not correct?
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Indi
Moderator
Post Number: 463
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 11:08 pm: |
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Thomas, you know that the spiritform and the Total Consciousness Block are a unit. It is only due to this connection that the spirit can evolve. So, when you speak of one, you include the evolving consciousness, that will at the beginning of the pure spirit levels become an awake consciousness.
Also Thomas, you have seen the diagrams showing that the spirit has a corresponding consciousness structure to the material consciousness block, with the Gemüt, subconscious etc..., and of course not a conscious consciousness at this time.
Also, in Guido's book 'And still they fly', p. 333-335, is outlined the physical and spiritual brain quotients, showing the ongoing consciousness evolution levels of the material and spiritual consciousness.
So, yes the spirit initially is only a small piece of creational energy (+ve) before its first incarnation, but in order to evolve it creates the Total consciousness block (-ve) thus forming a unit capable of evolution.
Robyn |
Smukhuti
Member
Post Number: 340
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 12:30 am: |
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I was reading some caselets on Reincarnation and none of the subjects remembered what happened in between lives. Apart from remembering past lives, a minority of them even remembered experiences just after death while some remembered coming down on earth and entering mothers womb (Pre-birth memory), but no cases of memory of the beyond.
My interpretation is - the "feeling" when released from material body described by many is a short term phenomena where the spirit consciousness plays a part. It is likely and I may be wrong that even the spirit consciousness has a downtime in the beyond (not even being recorded in the CCB), for in our evolutionary path in a material body, there is hardly any justification for our spirit consciousness to record and process (through Gemüt) the work of Creation in spirit-processing.
In http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Why_Is_It_so_Important_for_Us_to_Learn_so_Much,_Especially_in_our_Current_Lifetime%3F_Or_How_Can_We_Enable_Ourselves_to_Spread_the_Teaching_of_Spirit, _the_Teaching_of_Life_and_the_Teaching_of_Truth%3F , Marianne Uehlinger writes:
"After death, the spirit-form and consciousness-block pass over into their respective levels in order to process the accumulated data. I will omit the process of the spirit-form, although this naturally is just as important, because the spirit-form determines the exact time-point of the incarnation of the consciousness-block, though in some ways its different processes, as I see it, are easier to understand."
Perhaps any available material on processing of the spirit as mentioned would answer the question conclusively.
Salome.
Suv
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 928
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 05:42 am: |
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So we are talking the spirit form in total which includes the TCB?=C2=A0 I = thought we were only refering to the spirit itself meaning the energy sourc= e seperate from the TCB.=C2=A0 As I understand it, the spirit and the TCB a= re not a unit while between incarnations but I guess I misunderstood :-)
patricksdadinfrance@yahoo.com
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Gaiaguysnet
Member
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 05:07 pm: |
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Dear Robyn,
On March 5th, over on the Meditation thread, you wrote, as your 417th posting, "It is important to clarify though with offerings, as to whether they are one's own or whether they are from the Figu material. If they are from the Figu material, then it must be so that if it is incorrect, then it is corrected or commented upon. And, if from the Figu material, then it should be fully referenced, with page numbers and location so others may go to the source in order to adequately glean."
In light of that, would you be so kind as to please provide your page numbers, etc., for both the "TCB" (original German term?) and your use of the symbols "(-ve)" & "(+ve)"?
I ask because neither Vivienne or I recall those terms anywhere in either the German or the official translations. Thanks.
Also, I'm dead serious about trying to obtain this scanned (and therefore search-able) Meier library treasure of yours, which would save me SO much time, and provide SO much greater accuracy, in trying to answer questions here from non-German-readers. As I said - name your price. Copyright issues do not apply because I have already purchased the hard copies of everything you've scanned (+vol 10). Thanks. :-)
Cheers!
Dyson |
Marbar
Member
Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 06:26 pm: |
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I heard that after a prson dies, his or her spirit form stay in "The Beyond" for 114 years until it is time for that spirit to incarnate again. Is that true? |
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