| Author | Message | ||
    J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1331 Registered: 10-2007 |
For Thomas: First, to point out the connection between Spirit, Gemuet, Psyche, and Conscious Mind, refer to post # 304 and 305 from Jacob (Phaethonsfire) at this link: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/3545.html#POST13390 Also see the post # 561 from Scott immediately before Jacob's post on the same page. IF you understand both diagrams you will then understand that this connection indeed does exist. This matter is now rested. Peace be with you ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1332 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hi Peter As you say: ["... to be a pest, but i am stubborn."] Definition: Stubborn: having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, esp. in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so ... If you're the kind of person who takes a stand and then refuses to back down, your friends might say you have a stubborn disposition, a word that implies an innate resistance to any attempt to change one's purpose, course, or opinion. People who are stubborn by nature exhibit this kind of behavior in most situations, but they might be obstinate in a particular instance (: a stubborn child, he was obstinate in his refusal to eat vegetables). Obstinate implies sticking persistently to an opinion, purpose, or course of action, especially in the face of persuasion or attack. While obstinate is usually a negative term, dogged can be either positive or negative, implying both tenacious, often sullen, persistence and great determination = dogged loyalty to a cause. Obdurate usually connotes a stubborn resistance marked by harshness and lack of feeling, while intractable means stubborn in a headstrong sense and difficult for others to control or manage. No matter how stubborn you are, you probably don't want to be called pertinacious, which implies persistence to the point of being annoying or unreasonable. You're too stubborn to admit it: obstinate, headstrong, willful, strong-willed, pigheaded, obdurate, difficult, contrary, perverse, recalcitrant, inflexible, iron-willed, uncompromising, unbending; informal stiff-necked, bloody-minded, balky; formal pertinacious, refractory, contumacious. --- --- Defined from Dictionary There is no purpose in any argument, and I do not argue with you. But since you have defined yourself in this light, it is for you to learn how to move yourself off from a singular viewpoint. It is the same as when you see a diamond and only look at one facet, when the complete diamond has so many lovely facets, yet still the same one diamond. Perception, as 'they' say, is in the eye of the beholder. Be at Peace ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Indi Moderator Post Number: 515 Registered: 06-2006 |
It would be nice to see everyone exhibit self-control and refrain from ruining the topics by making posts personal. What is there to be gained by such posts? Please get back on topic and continue the discussion about whether the spirit has a body or the body has a spirit and whether the spirit has a voice that is 'heard' etc..... Maybe some quotes from various publications would help to decide which is the correct or whether both are. When there is disagreement on a point, is a perfect opportunity to explore it further so that everyone can learn from it. Robyn | ||
Jokoveltman Member Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2009 |
My thoughts on the spirit-body topic: A simple analogy: a piece of paper has a front side and a back side, but it is nonsensical to even talk about which side has which, because they are not separate, merely two faces of the same thing. In the same way, the Human Being has two sides: spiritual and physical. Neither "has" the other, because the Human Being is ONE; an entity with both sides. Salome, Tim | ||
Lth Member Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2010 |
Hi Jrod, respectfully, Jacob has also made errors in his posts and has later checked with BEAM on this very forum through the Q and A section and has been corrected. No disrespect to Jacob nor toward you Jrod. In fact I make mistakes too as Christian has just pointed out which I do realize and accept responsibility for. I am only trying to clarify things where I feel I might be of help. Sometimes I fail however... | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1333 Registered: 10-2007 |
* Hi Tim, your thinking is Spot-on. Good observation. Peace * ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1334 Registered: 10-2007 |
***** Hello Thomas, No problem my friend, This is why we are all still here ... To make the mistakes is necessary for Spiritual Evolution. That is, to recognize them and correct them leads us into greater Wisdom. I have made many mistakes in my life too, and have gone around to make amends with as many as I know. This is truly a liberating experience. Wisdom in Peace Salome ***** ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 524 Registered: 01-2004 |
i have done a good job to keep this non personal, and i think my stance on the matter of the spirit is a justifiable one... many people have been called out for posting inaccurate information on the forum for the sake of it's integrity. therefore it would only be fair that the same is done when jrod makes(what is to me)an innacurate claim regarding... we are spirits with bodies. points of view are secondary to the truth in all regards. it should'nt be this difficult, and i made an effort to ensure the moderators would'nt have to step in. to no avail. for truth's sake, i shall post some quotes from billy or figu material that supports the idea that we are not spirits with bodies. which i would have been better off doing from moment one, it seems. never the less, i will look into it now. | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 525 Registered: 01-2004 |
Semjase at the 10th contact on Wednesday, March 26, 1975, 3:20 pm "The human bears a spirit that does not die nor sleep during the deepest sleep; it records all thoughts and motions; it informs the human whether his thoughts are correct or false-if he has learned to pay attention." "The spirit within the human is the bearer of the creative realm, and every human has his own (spirit)." "If the human recognizes the existence of his spirit, the old age is not harmful to him any longer." "However, wisdom is the characteristic of a human who has recognized the existence of his spirit and cooperates along with the spiritual laws." "If one takes away a human's name and figure, what will remain? What remains is the fundamental essence, the existence-the spirit." "Every human bears within him the entire kingdom of spirit..." through these quotes, we can clearly determine that although the spirit is the inner most part of the being; the human being, the body and the personality (which thinks and makes decisions and decides to speak and argue etc) is clearly not the spirit. one is not interchangable with the other. and to claim that it is simply a matter of ones point of view is to more or less call Semjase a liar. or atleast to belittle her above statements as being nothing more than an opinion. so now through my determination, i have researched and found a reputable source of wisdom for my claim, that we are not spirits with bodies, but rather bodies with spirits. now i don't expect jrod to concede and say "i was incorrect in my view, we are infact not spirits with bodies". but wether one admits error or not, these seven quotes determine the fact of the matter. as a bonus, these quotes are so mighty that they aswell offer great insights to spiritual matters in general. therefore my point is a just one. although one may question my motives, the truth is the truth just the same. | ||
Lth Member Post Number: 20 Registered: 06-2010 |
> In any case, the spirit is primary and preceeds and exceeds the body in the > end. The rest is semantics :-) | ||
Elreyjr Member Post Number: 154 Registered: 01-2009 |
Greetings, The word unity came to my mind. Two in one. Jun My will be done | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1336 Registered: 10-2007 |
. Well peter, I like the way Tim has expressed his point of view: [ "the Human Being has two sides: spiritual and physical. Neither "has" the other, because the Human Being is ONE; an entity with both sides." ] Spirits with bodies, or bodies with spirits. These are two sides of the same coin. You imply that I "belittle Semjase" and you claim that I "speak untruth". You are Absolutely wrong in your false judgment. What utter nonsense falls out of your brain. You would do well to take two steps back and 'suck-it-up'. To cast such aspersions brings dishonor down upon your head which will weigh in your heart like a smoldering rock. You will find the taste of ashes in your teeth. You do NOT have mastery over my Being. So crawl back under your rock, for the light-of-day will pain your eyes. It is only to be hoped that you may Grow-UP someday. Find Peace where you may, lest it eludes you from your quest. . ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Michael_horn Member Post Number: 308 Registered: 07-2009 |
Two in one, okay, how's about: Humanity Man Unity | ||
Johnnybalmain Member Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hi All, Am I missing something here or is my thinking not logical. Those above quotes to me prove that the Spirit is the main character in this play. The personality/body is but a vehicle needed for the Spirit to evolve and needs to do this untold number of times. The personality/body will exist only once and is but only a blink. No matter how important we think of ourselves the individual human is a dispensable item and will be replaced by another when the need arises for the Spirit to evolve further. So this life we all live now is but a fraction of our true existence. So the emphasis is on the Spirit and not the continually changing personality/body. I found this concept a bit difficult to get my head around for a while. Probably because of latent false religious beliefs implanted within me but I am rid of them now. Me, myself, this person I am, will cease to exist when I die but all that I have experienced in the positive will continue as a part in my evolving Spirit. Peace John | ||
Schantz Member Post Number: 114 Registered: 03-2007 |
Hey Johnny, Very well said by you. You really understand the meaning of life. Maybe you had another vacation and came to this realization like your peace meditation countdown idea. Good thinking on your part! Very logical indeed! | ||
Peter_brodowski Member Post Number: 526 Registered: 01-2004 |
indi's post 515 hits close to home here... i set out to correct somebody's inaccurate statement, with the intention of learning something. i also was thinking that truth and facts would be respected, i guess not in this instance. Now we have people conveniently straying from the point at hand. i certainly have learned a valuble spiritual lesson here... you can have good intentions, but they might not always result in the intended good. j rod, i have done no dishonour to me or anyone. It is you who takes my light hearted joke about being stubborn, and turns to use it as a weapon to insult me. you are taking things all too personally. i think i have carried myself well in this exchange, and i think anybody who reads my many posts, who wether they like my personality or not, as long as they are honest, they will see that i am fairly mature in my thoughts and reasoning. i try to learn and evolve everyday. i do myself great honour. so i will never taste any ashes in my teeth. i did the logical thing by laying out quotes by reputable sources, never mind all the rest. prove me wrong with quotes from the many spiritual texts provided by figu, or be a self respecting human being and concede that you are simply stating your own opinion that does not coincide with the spiritual truth. all i ask is for your honesty. dear moderators, i am really trying to get my point across without having to engage in a battle. though i would probably have an easier time turning a coal into a diamond. i am ending my part in this conversation here because i am not confident that it will be any more productive and to the point of the matter than it already is. | ||
Dave Member Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2007 |
Dear all, "My spirit,you exist within omnipotence. May your name be holy, May your kingdom incarnate itself within me. May your power unfold itself within me,on Earth and in the Heavens. Give me today my daily bread,that i may recognize my wrongdoings and the truth. And lead menot into temptation and confusion,but deliver me from error. For yours is the kingdom within me and the power and the Knowledge forever.Amen" My spirit enlivens me therefore Your spirit enlivens you  my best wishes regards Dave | ||
Marbar Member Post Number: 137 Registered: 12-2009 |
About the spirit prayer, I say the spirit prayer every night right before I go to sleep. I will try my best to say it everyday for as long as I have the ability to say it. The spirit prayer is something that means alot to me now, more than ever. I want to say thank you to all the people who answered my questions about the spirit prayer. | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 201 Registered: 09-2007 |
A spirit without body is not human, and neither is a body without spirit. It’s only with the conjugation of the two that a human psyche will be formed. While we can say that we are anything that is a part of what we think we are, the most accurate definition for ourselves in our current context, is just human beings. Not spirits with bodies, not bodies with spirits, but humans (who necessarily have bodies and spirits). Peter, you won't find written anywhere in the notes that the body thinks, feels or learns. That's because we are not our bodies, we are just using them. | ||
Elreyjr Member Post Number: 155 Registered: 01-2009 |
Greetings, I was taught to equate the body to a set of wardrobe which could be changed as often as necessary (death) and is insignificant therefore the spirit is primordial (do not die) and humans are humans because his spirit is dressed up to continue the evolutionary process of the spirit. I think what makes the topic at hand a bit difficult to understand is because we put ourselves as humans upfront egotistically instead of giving the spirit the center stage, maybe as an after effect of the religious machinations we all had. I guess Billy is often harping on how and what humans are in order to bring out the best, that which is for the spirit. No wonder we should give the Spiritual Teaching a very good look, I surmised. Should I change this understanding? Please help. Jun My will be done | ||
J_rod7 Member Post Number: 1337 Registered: 10-2007 |
*** Hi Jun, I agree with you. That is why I said first that we are Spirit which has a body (but not in the sense of "owning" the body). The body has it's own desire to continue to live as it has the instinct to maintain it's life. The body and the personality both must die. The Spirit goes on into the beyond, then takes on a new body and new personality in reincarnation. It is the Spirit which Evolves, not the body. the body then is the material tool by which we experience the material world. There is an additional perspective which has validity. That is when the Spirit IS within the body, it forms a unity, a oneness of Spirit and body. ***.........snip.... Wisdom in Peace (Message edited by indi on July 20, 2010) ~~ TRUTH finds WISDOM finds LOVE finds PEACE -- Find What You Seek ~ Rod | ||
Borthwey Member Post Number: 204 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hello Jun I wouldn't say that the body is insignificant. But of course, it should not be given excessive importance. Spirit is everywhere, nothing would be without spirit (reason). Important is to do things for the right reasons. Growing spiritually means increasing one's ability to think and to understand. But I think that any ability is a spiritual ability, which contributes to the spirit's evolution. Identifying oneself with the spirit brings one closer to it. It brings one closer to what is imperishable. It’s true that we live for the spirit. I mean, we are being used by it to acquire knowledge. But we are also helping its subsequent incarnations with our efforts. Besides obviously, ourselves. We should not base our identity around the body. Nevertheless we should take good care of it because it is such an important tool, the one that allows us to exist in the world and interact with it. | ||
Getknowledge Member Post Number: 128 Registered: 04-2008 |
i think Peter is coming from the fact that no one can say they are also the past/future personalities... Teachings About Creation 59. "The body cannot live without the spirit and CONVERSELY, because spirit and body are a unity despite their seeming duality. Spirit with bodies vs bodies with spirit; both are required, both are half right, both are two parts of a unity... 63. "Hence, two things are always required that are one within themselves, so there is a oneness within the unity but not a duality. 64. "Thus the law says that a human being is a unity in itself, which consists of two equal parts that form a unity, both within themselves and also together. 65. "And the two equal parts in the human being, each of which constitutes a unity within itself, are the body AND the spirit. Tien |
