| Author |
Message |
   
Zanderson
Member
Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 05:39 pm: | 
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I've often wondered this.
What if a "rogue spirit-form" (RSF) of another creation enters ours (if at all possible). I'm thinking maybe the laws which governs our spirit-form would not necessarily apply to it, that is unless all 10^49 creations have the same laws.
But if these laws differ for each creation and such a prospect becomes possible (regardless of how unlikely) and this RSF now has a slightly unrestricted reign in our creation, would our Patel level spirit-forms protect creation.
I know some may say for a spirit-form, such illogical actions would never occur but can we really say for certainty that this is indeed the reality (after all, there is a lot of creations out there which we know virtually nothing about). And if evolution holds true as I'm thinking, maybe the first set of creation weren't as perfect as ours is.
Now why would a spirit-form want to leave its creation. Well, I can think of a spirit-form leaving its creation to escape been neutralized when its creation goes to sleep. This may not be for self preservation, as what first came to my mind, but to be a pioneer in testing the idea of surviving the great sleep of ones creation.
Just some random thoughts, so feel free to correct me "where" I'm wrong... 
Zanderson: Conscious Evolution...
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 2259
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 10:41 pm: |
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Jacob...
WHY did you not post my TWO postings to you??
Here and at Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks string??
Edward. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 2260
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 10:49 pm: |
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Jacob...
If you have read the FIGU materials further you would know I was referring to
Malicious beings whom have negative intentions towards other humans and sort
like creatures and even to Creation, and their battles can become very great
and destructive events. And here, is where the Spirit Levels/Andromeda can
gave us advice, etc., as has been done in the past.
This is WHAT I was referring to with the example concerning the Cells.
If you let me explain, than you would KNOW WHAT I mean!
Edward. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 768
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:06 pm: |
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Edward,
I have studied the FIGU materials quite well, and still do.
You need to relax, I know what you mean and I have even addressed this with Christian (who is a core-group member) that your assumptions are wrong.
You seem to have a hard time to admit that you are wrong about things.
Also you need to study the spirit teaching much more thoroughly.
I would advice you to address people with respect.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 2262
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:03 pm: |
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Jacob....
We discussed the Gender bit of Creation. Of course, I KNOW Creation is
Genderless!
Give the individual the FREE WILL to express Creation as they feel!? [Like
Billy said: you can interpret something 2, 5 millions ways and it will still
mean the same...; I do not think that is that hard for YOU to Comprehend??]
If you want to call it IT...fine with me!
I would like to Express Creation more with Respect. That is not that hard to
understand, I would think!?
Just because someone is NOT fulfilling your needs it does not have to mean
he/she is Cult Religious thinking, Jacob. WHERE is your Common Sense and
Reason?
You are creating a Storm in a small cup....
Let us not be Short Sighted, Jacob??
Edward. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 769
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:26 pm: |
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Concerning the discussion about the Creation being addressed as It, she or he.
Response from Christian Frehner / CG of 49:
\start quote:
I guess that he wants to be as close to the German language which addresses Creation with the female article (DIE Schöpfung = die = female, das = neutrum, der = male). [DIE Frau, DER Mann, DAS Kind.]
There should not be a fight about it, but of course in the English language with its lack of certain subtleties Creation really should be addressed as an IT.
Conclusion: If he wants to cling to "she", let him be.
\end quote:
quote of Edwards post: 2252
"With Creation, this is not the case. Here is where the Spirit Levels come
in
and remedy whatever calamity, etc, could occur and find a solution to
prevent
such an aliment to happen and spread further through Creation, which would
make her even ill or even destroy a greater part of her."
Remark of Christian Frehner about this: "Creation cannot become ill or destroy a part of it.
(Message edited by jacob on October 30, 2011)
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Edward
Member
Post Number: 2263
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:44 pm: |
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Jacob...
I am quite relaxed, here, Jacob. Do not feel 'up-tight' what-so-ever.
I am just explaining my view, that is all.
I have made my case very clearly about Creational Duality as well as
concerning the IT.
I mentioned CLEARLY, that I Accept and Acknowledge BOTH as they are in the
Spiritual Teachings definitions.
I AM NOT Denying them both HOW they are presented in the Spiritual Teachings.
IT, I just express in a 'figure of speak' sort of concept, as I made clear to
you in previous postings. AGAIN: I DO ACKNOWLEDGE THE IT...but only just
express it differently. I think we should be able to express this freely, with
the knowledge that YOU as well as I and others KNOW WHAT we are talking about: referring to. I think we are Adult enough to do so?
With Creational Duality, as I described in 51 and down(forgot the chapter),
seems like Jmmanuel is describing the mentioned as an 'imaginary' concept, but
of course: I ACCEPT and ACKNOWLEDGE he is referring to UNITY/ONENESS. Thus,
when I mentioned Creational Duality, this is WHAT I am referring to. But than,
with the definition of it being, in reality, being the mentioned UNITY/
ONENESS. [Jammnuel speaks in parables, no?]
Again, do not get me wrong: I Accept and Acknowledge BOTH as they are
defined in the Spiritual Teachings. Am only, expressing them Differently. And
again, we know WHAT we are referring to.
I ALWAYS Respect each and every individual here, Jacob. It is mostly those
whom do not understand me whom do not respect ME; as I gathered from the years being here.
If there is one person who has been very Respectful to the boardees here: it
is I.
I further close this case....
Edward. |
Peter_brodowski
Member
Post Number: 567
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:57 pm: |
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hey there edward, out of respect for everyone,
i also notice you have difficulty admitting error.
for someone who portrays oneself as being an avid student of the spirit teachings, you yet make many mistake, like the she reference to creation for example.
however this cannot be a mistake because you know better.
i agree with jacob about being more respectful to others...
it is tempting to want your point to be the main focus (believe me i know), but jacob has afforded you an opportunity to learn something about yourself, because i assume you do not see yourself as being disrespectfull or even to some degree arrogant.
you have a certain style of expressing your ideas (it shows) and that's admirable.
when one knows something (knowing better) and does not act upon that knowledge, then i think that is something to the tune of passive agressive? or some kind of negative action.
i value your ideas, and i hope you value mine. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 770
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 01:20 am: |
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Edward, let agree to disagree.
I think its important that the spirit teaching is presented in its unaltered state and clearly explained, if there are inconsistencies, I will respond with verifiable information and its sources.
However if I say something which is incorrect, I expect that people correct me, its an interaction we all learn from each other.
(Message edited by jacob on October 31, 2011)
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Cpl
Member
Post Number: 583
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 08:21 am: |
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Hello Zanderson,
Re your random thought: "why would a spirit-form want to leave its creation. Well, I can think of a spirit-form leaving its creation to escape been neutralized when its creation goes to sleep. This may not be for self preservation, as what first came to my mind, but to be a pioneer in testing the idea of surviving the great sleep of ones creation."
First, a spirit form would not want to leave its Creation. They are essentially the same thing in essence. Neither would it want to escape its sleep period. To understand why we can just look to the microcosm: mankind.
Your question is really the same as why a physical human being would want to leave his physical human body. The physical human cannot, by definition do this. You cannot leave the physical body and be a physical body. The same goes for spirit/Creation for they are essentially of the same frequencies.
Secondly, what human being would want to avoid his necessary and re-energizing sleep? Some might occasionally experiment with this, but they soon give up and if not sleep claims them because sleep is even more necessary for humans than food. I think the world record for surviving without sleep is 7 days, but people can survive for a few weeks without food if they have water -- and sleep.
Sleep is good, very good. Those who regularly miss it end up with various sicknesses that can even result in death, including, as some experts think, in the extreme becoming a sleep walker who commits murders that they are unaware of. It is missing sleep that is a problem, not getting it. Sleep is a natural re-energizing process among many other good things; and spirit and Creation, metaphorically speaking, naturally travel the path of goodness and vitality.
Creation follows a natural waking and sleep process of evolution just as mankind does.
I suggest you read all the first few hundred Contact Notes at futureofmankind website to build a basic understanding of spirit and Creation as well as the first two volumes of the CNs and everything here on same.
Now I am going to get some good health generating sleep. Goodnight, pleasant dreams and last but not least, WELCOME to the forum. (Excuse me if I cannot always reply but I am often extraordinarily busy for extended periods of time.)
Chris
Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 771
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 12:41 pm: |
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The universe, the Creation, the universal consciousness is a giant living organism composed out of fine and course matter, respectively. spiritual and material form. The “Empfindungs” consciousness, the Creation, the universal consciousness, respectively, the universe in its primordial spirit-energetic form created course matter for purposes of its own evolution, because the universal consciousness can evolve through the evolution of all matter and in particular the evolution of the human with his self-aware consciousness.
For this reason the universal “Empfindungs” consciousness, course matter, the belt material universe with all the galaxies, suns, planets, comets, meteors, gases and life forms of all genera and species, etc.
The universal consciousness does not think, since it exists out of purest spiritenergy and that’s why it exists as ““Empfindungs” consciousness.
Such, however, exists only in complete logic and creates out of logical respectively, logical “Empfindung” results out mergers with other logical “Empfindung” results, so new logical constructs emerge.
This idea was already given by the primordial Creation in idea origin, for the Universal consciousness, resp. Universe.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 01:15 pm: |
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Re: creation stories
Like bellybuttons, everyone has one. Regardless of the jargon, from Creation's standpoint it's turtles all the way down. We can make sense of that, swim in the bottomless ocean, or drown.
For me, love is my lifering, the process of creation by which LIFE comes into being. The particulars of that process are less interesting to me than how what I think of as my self originates with the simplest of loving intentions.
Life
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Zanderson
Member
Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 03:42 pm: |
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Hello Chris,
Thanks for your response I really apreciate it...
However, I don't think you fully understood my questions.
Taking apart of the question out of the whole, has changed its context and as such the question. Consequently to really address the point as you did, requires the entire statement to be examined.
Just a recommendation for future discussions, always try to avoid the "Straw Man"...
If i'm wrong about this, my apologies.
Zanderson: Conscious Evolution...
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Andres82
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 03:42 am: |
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Here is something I've questioned myself for about a week...
What exists outside of the Creation Universes If they exist in a bubble (I think I may be wrong?)
If anyone knows the answer it would be much appreciated =]
Thanks
Salome
Andres
Lyrian Spirit
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Teesoft
Member
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 04:09 am: |
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Hi Andres to my knowledge i think there is nothing simple emtyness Void.......I know little about this but there is more about this void but cant remember so i wouldnt want to say more so i wouldnt bring more confusion...
Salome,
Tosin |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 776
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 10:47 am: |
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Outside of each creational universe there is the absolutum space/time, which is an absolute void in the sense that there is no coarse or fine material energy whatsoever, only ultra-fine spirit-energy which is also absorbed by the ram-belt (7th belt of the Creation) and used by the Creation (after concentration) as nourishment.
Also the Creation needs nourishment from outside, in this case from the Absolute Absolutum, this is valid for all other Creation in any of the 1049 levels of development towards the Absolute Absolutum
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 02:20 pm: |
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One thing that bothered me was that, if Creation is not a conscious consciousness like ours, but instead an empfindung consciousness, which is conscious but without personality, then how could it want to create anything? How could anything of higher value than an overly complex automaton come to exist if the creativity of Creation had no quality of urging or compassion or desire? Well I thought about that and asked myself why we desire things. It seems to me to be because our needs due to evolution have molded us as humans to be built to desire and to have urges. Without these bodies but somehow still having complete awareness, what might we want when we had no actual needs to be fulfilled materially? What could we do with our consciousness and what would the results of those actions be?
Then it occurred to me that I was not afraid of change so much as I was afraid of letting go of all that is truly good in humans, including self-awareness. But Creation IS self-aware and it is free of our little faults and it is the container and keeper of all that is good and useful from all our little lives. Nothing goes to waste in Creation and nothing is thrown away knowledge or wisdom-wise. Only a purification of wisdom and knowledge happens and the letting go of what is not harmonious and useful. Creation is aware and it does create and evolve, but how can it do this if it does not "think" in the way we understand the term? Does Creation retain it's self-awareness and creativity even though it uses something other than thought to connect knowledge in new combinations, all the while never losing awareness of and connection to all within itself??? I believe that, if it doesn't already have this quality, Creation must eventually evolve to have awareness of its neighbors and the Absolutum and even the BEING Absolutum. It must at some point know and interact with it's surroundings and not just within itself.
So we know that once a Creation evolves at least to the level of a Central Creation that it can reproduce, but when can it "build" outside of itself if ever? And aside from that, can Creation feel in some higher sense in the way we feel love and urges, even if that form of it's feeling is so different from ours that we cannot imagine what it must be like?
Now that I have thought it through, I feel less afraid of anything being less good and desireable than what we as humans have and do now, even after our hatred and fighting will have ceased. True universal love is harmony and pure connection without any hinderance and without any lack of freedom. Love is the goal because, with love and logic and knowledge and wisdom, we WILL evolve out of the pitiful and hardly desireable place/state we are in now. |
Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 04:58 am: |
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The desire for creation, for initiating the creative process, is most fundamental, and requires no characteristics. It is the most fundamental element of Life itself, and is done in the spirit of love.
Life
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Andres82
Member
Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 02:18 pm: |
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Dear All,
I have a few questions and a hypothesis.
My apologies if it appears a little rushed.
How do we explain The Creation Scientifically?
I have explained the human evolution into pure spirit forms briefly to a few people and have had the most stupid, illogical and ignorant reactions.. I wouldn't blame them, they are only retarded (underdeveloped) school children. But I am a student aswell, being their age but also a Lyrian.
Here's how I've been able to theorize that the Creation exists through stating evident facts.
I think also that Science as we know it needs to have a serious re-examination. It is always that something is real once we have experimented with it. When it should be - Everything is reall until an experiment is created which dictates that something isnt.
We should also take into depth that things may be true because they are displayed through various lesser examples that conclude that something is true.
However returning to "What is Creation?"
This is how I began to think: (to be able to explain it to any person on the street)
What is light? What is Sound? What is heat? What is motion(Kineticism)?
- They are forms of energy.
How is energy carried?
- Through waves.
What is a wave? it is energy.
ok.. There is a lot of energy in the universe already..
But What is an atom?
It has a neutron/electron/proton It is made of energy, it is energy.
and if we split an atom - we get MORE energy.
So really, the clumping of atoms explains "Corse Matter". However more analyticlly,specifically, we live in a Universe of Energy.
Ok, weve established that.
But, How many types of waves are there?
(millions so yet more energy in our universe!)
Refering to the statement that waves are energy. Here is a diagram of the Electromagnetic Spectrum.
http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/waves3.html (_______at bottom________)
My question:
- What is the vibrational frequency of the Creation and were does it register on this scale?
- In this manner we are able to define energy from the lowest to the Highest - Being the Creation itself.
However I feel that this explanation can do the Creation no justice. Because we have no example of an energy that makes decisions for itself. - and most people in particular that group of individuals do not believe in the spirit.
- How do we explain the spirit?
- the analogy of a tree as Eduard said I believe is simply not enough. - The recyling of Atoms as energy through the life and death of many things can explain it "to some extent" however atoms and their particles always remain in our "course matter realm".
The "to some extent":
The recycling of atoms (energy) are with the body and then leave the body (death) and assume a different form in the soil (burial).. - We know that this process occurs with the spirit form leaving the body but happens on a much faster process.
This soil then has the opportunity to seed a tree and then that atom will become part of the tree (returning into physical life ( to some extent))
Will spend a few days pondering these things...
Will let you know my progress if I can... ( I have a small workload)
Please correct me if you know I am wrong.
Salome
Andres
Lyrian Spirit
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 786
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 04:53 pm: |
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Andres,
I don't want to respond to your post as a whole, but a certain part I really want to address because it shows disrespect towards your fellow human.
Its absolutely unjustified to say about people the following: "I wouldn't blame them, they are only retarded (underdeveloped) school children. But I am a student aswell, being their age but also a Lyrian."
On this planet where we live now with about 8 billion people we are ALL Earth humans, regardless if our spiritforms originated from the depths of space or incarnated on this planet for the first time originally. Our bodies are made of the matter of Earth, we have all the same short lifespan and have the aggression gene inside of us, all we can do is to evolve mutual and help each other.
One can not judge people about their ignorance when one has to learn a lot themselves, not to trip over the splinter in their eyes and not see the beam in ones own eye.
Humans are humans, they carry the spiritform, all part of the same Creation with the exact same goal, some are further along then others, but it doesn't make them worth more or less.
You need to take a neutral stance with people giving answers you might think to be underdeveloped, what a person did not learn he/she can't answer. Take their answer gracefully, you don't have to accept or agree with them, but you can accept that their answer is their own.
I can fully understand that answers can be very ignorant or primitive, and cause feelings of misunderstandings, but always take a neutral stance, count to 10 and remember that you are just like everyone else, a student.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Zanderson
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2011
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 08:42 pm: |
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I totally agree with Jacob.. And Andres, no I'm not ganging up on you...
You see, there is a lot of wisdom in what Jacob as said. In the grand scheme of things, it does matter where our spirit-form first originated. Besides even if you don't feel at home here (I sometimes don't ), no one can definitely say where their spirit-form originated from without been evolved enough to recall those memories. And even if you do, remember that, on our way to the AA-Level our spirit-form will eventually leave the crib (planet) and take that first step to venture out into the environment (universe).
So if you really feel like you're spirit-form isn't from here, just think of this as your first set of step outside that crib...
Or to use your school analogy, a preschooler taking some advance course and you already know what todays lesson is...
Zanderson: Conscious Evolution...
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Kingman
Member
Post Number: 890
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 08:55 pm: |
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Hi Andres,
The topic of changing from a physical being into a pure spiritual being is something that requires very deep thinking over a lifetime. And there's just not enough useable life experiences anyone could have in our present lives that lends itself to be used as plausible examples. No one's going to have familiar ground to stand on with that topic. To heavy for an early date
Discussing the consciousness as a very complex and mysterious energy opens up good doorways for introducing other people to the idea of Creation. The unknown layers of the mind and it's psyche have brought many great discussions for me.
You may want to include the known observation that everything is embedded with spin, a cycling energy that we see in planets, solar systems, galaxies, particles, and as you say, "the recyclying of atoms. So, we can say that ALL materials are recyclying. With this we can add the understanding that everything is made of energy in different forms. If we can agree to these provable observations, one only needs to add the idea of consciousness as being made of energy and
allow this to be enough for proof. If they aren't able to open up their mind to the thought of consciousness being alive and part of the spinning universe we birth and die in, leave them and let your words of wisdom be used on only those who will hear you and offer back a learning opportunity for both..
a friend in america
Shawn
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Andres82
Member
Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 10:41 pm: |
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Dear Kingman,
Thanks for the clarification, it was what I was looking for and Thank you for putting out that everything is in “a cycle” – It is a true observation.
However the argument for a consciousness could go both ways either spiritual or physical.
Physical being the argument that the consciousness is created from the brain which is partially correct. - It appears that there is an element missing.
Yes I know to use my words of wisdom, I made an error in judgment to whom I would share this knowledge with. It will not happen again.
I would still like to see if it is possible to place the Creation Energy on the Electromagnetic Scale, I am sure it is..
Best Regards,
Salome
Andres
Lyrian Spirit
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