| Author |
Message |
   
Ardie
Member
Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 07:55 am: | 
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Thomas,
I tried to go to that site, but it has been suspended. I looked for another site with the petition and found this one:
http://www.change.org/petitions/withdraw-execution-warrant-and-grant-dna-testing-to-hank-skinner-2 |
Elreyjr
Member
Post Number: 266
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 04:18 pm: |
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Thomas,
I came too late. they have suspended the web account. the least we can do is to sent positive impulses.
Jun
My will be done |
Elreyjr
Member
Post Number: 267
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 04:24 pm: |
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Ardie,
done.
Jun
My will be done |
Mahigitam
Member
Post Number: 450
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 10:29 pm: |
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CR 23(UCV), pg 262
Regarding "Law of Justice"..
Semjase: 16. If the consious loaded guilt of a form of life is yet too large to expiate her in adequate compass,so accords to such a guilt only the equivalence of elimination, by what the concerning forms of life is unworthy of this life and looses the justification for existence.
17.For expiation is valid then at later point of time following rebirth, which life is then limited on the rest of time of the formerly eliminated life.
18.But this is valid only for living forms of barbarous nature, because only this law and its use may they conceive.
And then she goes on to say that, as time goes the laws also change according to the spiritual development where the guilty ones should be exiled for life. Can someone elaborate on the point 16..
Beware the fallacies into which undisciplined thinkers most easily fall--they are the real distorting prisms of human nature - Francis Bacon
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Sarah
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 04:05 am: |
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What defines barbarous nature though? I find it a strange to say that a person who tries to follow these rules: 'You shall not kill in depravity.' 'You shall not violate your covenant with CREATION.''You shall not steal or expropriate from others.''You shall not blaspheme the Truth,' and so forth.
To exactly be what you'd call a barbarian. Unless its still clinging on to the belief that humans are inherently barbaric, which I don't believe for a minute. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 790
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 10:45 am: |
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There is a form which is called natural barbarism, its even a natural creative law.
Natural barbarism is the destruction of life and/or materials to obtain required results for evolution, which can not be obtained by any other means, examples would be cancer research, AIDS, etc, etc. However with the passing of time new technologies and methods come available so that destruction of life (lab animals, etc) becomes avoidable and obsolete.
The actual destruction of life for evolution is a negative action, but the gain of knowledge about a illness is a positive result, so its balanced out. To use humans for destructive / lethal experiments as they have happened in NAZI-Germany are always against the natural creative laws and recommendations of the Creation. It's absolutely a unnatural-barbaric act to destroy life in order to do cosmetic research, for example lipstick, blush, etc, etc. since it does not serve the purpose of evolution.
All other acts of barbarism to kill life for pleasure or out of boredom is nothing less then an act against nature and its natural creative laws and recommendations.
Exempt is of course the necessary killing of plants and animals in order to eat and survive, but only for that, not to kill more animals then is needed for survival or only to store to survive a harsh winter for example.
Exempt is also killing or harming other life out of selfdefense, when ones own life or others are immediately threatened in their existence.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 578
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 09:49 am: |
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Hi Mahigitam
I think the key to understanding what line 16 is referring to can be found later in line 20, which reads roughly: “Now, instead of elimination (i.e. execution/ capital punishment) castration or sterilization, the law provides, instead, for exile for life, and this into separate circles or groups."
… the former being man-made laws of barbarous nature and the latter being a creational law.
As a side note, Sarah, critics today of the former penalties (such as the death penalty) cite the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits the government from inflicting "cruel and unusual punishments."
Regarsd
Bob |
Sarah
Member
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 11:11 am: |
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Oh well that I can see. I was a little worried eating my hamburger would be barbaric.D: Lets just hope we can do something to prevent something like the Nazi experiments or Unit 731. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 2285
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 02:01 am: |
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Hi Sarah....
Well, Semjase did mention in the early contacts, that there is a majority of
ETs whom are still in the Experiment mode, so to speak. They kidnap humans and
other creatures and conduct all sorts of experiments which also is for their
Science Knowledge to grow, so to speak. Thus, we should still take heed to
such beings.
Not to forget, some of the so-called Monsters and other like creatures that
came to life due to ETs conducting experiments with them here on Earth;
koppeling the species, and Genetically Manipulating their DNA to create a
certain sort of creature, etc. And the creatures were left behind, here on
Earth till they became extinct.
What One would do in the name of Science, eh?
Edward. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 2290
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 12:18 am: |
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Hi Sarah...
Correction on: there is a majority of ETs , should be Minority.
Edward. |
Sarah
Member
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 04:48 pm: |
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Oh I know what you meant. I figured you meant minority. What would people do in the name of science? ....Well some rather disturbing stuff. Some history is...good to know, so we know not to repeat it. |
Paul
Member
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 01:42 pm: |
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Hello to all on this forum.
I would be very grateful if someone who is familiar with the Dodekalog could help me figure something out please.
On page 59 verses 456-460:
456.Seit jeher hat dir die Schoepfung den Weg gewiesen, den du zu gehen hast, um die Vereinigung mit ihr in Vervollkommnung zu erlangen.
457.Immer wieder hat sie es dir aufs neue offenbart und wird dies auch weiterhin in nie und nie endender Liebe so lange tun, bis auch der Letzte von dir zu ihr zurueckgekehrt ist in Vervollkommnung.
458.Denn aus ihr bist du in Liebe hervorgegangen, um deiner Aufgabe der Vervollkommnung deiner selbst und der Schoepfung gerecht zu werden, und zu ihr wirst du in Erfuellung der Vervollkomnung auch wieder in empfangender Liebe zurueckkehren.
459.Doch aber ohne die Befolgung der Gesetze und Gebote der Schoepfung ist dies nicht moeglich, denn wenn die Zeit des Wachens der Schoepfung der Zeit des Schlummers weichen muss und du in dieser Zeit deine Aufgabe der Vervollkommnung und der Rueckkehr zur und in die Schoepfung nicht erfuellt hast, dann faellst du dem allgrosszeitlichen Totsein anheim in einer absoluten Eliminierung.
460.Denn so sich dereinst die Schoepfung in ihren siebengrosszeitlichen Schlummer legt, wird alles erloeschen und dem Nichts anheimfallen, was nicht in ihr selbst zum SEIN geworden ist.
Rough translation:
456.Since time immemorial the Creation has shown you the way that you shall go to attain the merging with it in perfection.
457.Again and again it has newly revealed it to you and will continue to do so in never ending love until the last of you has returned to it in perfection.
458.Because you have emerged from it in love to fulfil your task of perfecting yourself and the Creation in fairness, and you will return to it again also in the fulfilment of perfection in welcoming love.
459.Yet however without the compliance of the laws and recommendations of the Creation this is not possible, because when the awake time must give way to the time of slumber and you in this time have have not fulfilled your task of perfection and the return to and in the Creation, then you fall victim to "Totsein" in an absolute elimination.
460. Because one day the Creation will lie in slumber for seven great times, everything will come to an end and fall victim to the Nothingness, that has not become BEING in itself.
I am confused about this because Billy has said himself that all spiritforms that start the path of evolution will ultimately complete their evolution one day and merge with the Creation. Indeed it has even been said by Billy that when the Universe reaches the end of its expansion phase (155,500 000 000 000 years from the "Big Bang") there will be no human lifeforms left in the Universe and all spiritforms will be in the pure spirit levels of Arahat Athersata and above and will have plenty of time(155,500 000 000 000 years of the Universes contraction phase) to complete their evolution and merge with the Creation.
Why does Petale suggest in its message through Billy in the passages above that the spirit form can fail its evolution and "fall victim to "Totsein" in an absolute elimination" if it fails to comply with the laws and recommendations of the Creation?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Salome.
Paul. |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 799
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 02:15 pm: |
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Hello Paul,
This is only a theoretical possibility, however not impossible, but actually never happens, for the reason that over the millions of years, even for 'slow' learners, the personality and spirit-form reach a level of knowledge and wisdom that such illogical thinking to willingly and knowingly working against the Creation and its Laws and Recommendations would become impossible.
This simply because of the reason that a human after many millions of years and many reincarnations reaches the level of a (elo)-JHWH and later on Srut, at those levels its already impossible for that human to work against the natural creative laws and recommendations so evolution will be actively pursued.
However you can't sit back and 'enjoy' the ride and that evolution will go on automatically, it will always be hard work.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 800
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 02:31 pm: |
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In theory it is possible that if a spirit-form does unify with the Creation its energy will be neutralized back to normal spirit-energie and absorbed back into the Creation, in a similar fashion as it will happen with animal- plant- spirit-forms.
What i mentioned in the earlier post is that at a point you become so wise that you do know in every fiber of your being that it would be complete lunacy to work against your own evolution, its like reaching a critical mass, from there is no return.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Paul
Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 02:07 am: |
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Thanks Jacob.
So basically because of the laws of Creation itself i.e the becoming and passing, the birth, life, death and rebirth, the in-built striving (das Streben) etc. etc. and the sheer time span it is inevitable that we will evolve to the point that we become wise enough that, as you said, it would be lunacy to go against the creational laws and recommendations.
Another question though, hypothetically, how would Creation lose a fragment of itself, i.e a spiritform that failed to merge with it?
I think this is impossible so therefore it also seems impossible that any spiritform will ever "fail" its evolution. It seems determined from the very beginning (Schoepfungs-Idee) that because of the processes of life and death and reicarnation, natural laws,striving and so on, that human beings will inevitably turn to the truth of the laws and recommendations of the Creation which are displayed in nature etc.
Just one more question please if you know it:
When do new spiritforms stop being generated according to creative laws?
Thanks again.
Salome.
Paul. |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 05:35 am: |
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Hello everyone, I would like to mention that Hank Skinner, the man that I asked you to sign a petition against his execution recently, apparently has been granted an unlimited stay of execution according to what I read online as of November 8 this year. If this has changed or if anyone has any updates, please let me know here. I think that saving the life of another human being warrants this brief off FIGU topic.
Thanks again for the efforts of everyone who helped save this (likely innocent)man from state sanctioned murder. |
Andyv24
Member
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 11:12 am: |
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Hi folks. At university I am beginning a course "Philosophy of Law" (as well planning to later attend Law School...). Coming into the Meier material a few years ago, I have since been fastly seeking knowledge of the "Laws and Recommendations of Creation." But, it seems, these often have little to do with law per se, that is, socio-political law. My question, where do, or where ought, these two meet? Yes, it is against a law of Creation to murder, to kill in degenerecy, and this, of course, has likewise been adopted into a government decreed law. But, consider something like "the law of hygiene" that is given much ado (quite righly, of course) by FIGU--here we do not, and seemingly cannot, enforce punishment on those whom fail to comply. Again, where do/ought the Laws of Creation meet the laws of man? There must be a line (one that I fail in trying to pin-point) that is drawn between behaviours that demand legislation against, and behaviours and errors that we must simply allow and individual to make and learn from without legal consequence. Any thoughts in this regard--a rule to where this line ought be drawn? Or where perhaps I may find Billy/FIGU (Enlgish) material on this subject of jurisprudence?
Thanks much,
Andy |
Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 08:57 pm: |
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As to the question of jurisprudence, this is a variable rather than a constant. As mentioned in the Meier material, the application of laws is amenable to any particular situation, hence the difficulty in developing a general standard for proper behaviors. Again, the determination of the righteousness of any particular action should be derived from an understanding of the simplest of laws.
Life's simplest, most fundamental of justifications is love.
Life
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Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 08:45 pm: |
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Andy, what you are doing is admirable.
Although not commonly acknowledged, legal precedents find their most fundamental moral justifications, such as with the formation of a constitution, the agreements that belie contracts, and the evolution of the time-honored ceremony of holding court, in general statements that tend towards spirituality. Among the things I have seen, this is most obvious in the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) as pertains to banking.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/ucc.table.html
The social organization that results sets its fundamental ideals along these lines, however as the society develops and grows more complex, it tends to 'misinterpret' those ideals until they devolve into just myths that the populace lives by. Of course, Earth's unique history (as explained in the Meier material) has led to further misalignment with the spiritual ideals that underlie the myths of our respective societies. Delving too deeply into this might lead to charges of antisemitism, hypocrisy, and misanthropy. For instance, in learning about the law, you may hear of Eustace Mullins... You need not trouble yourself too much with this stuff, it is already a fading anachronism where only the insults remain. As an attorney, your job is to bring the law back into agreement with its simplest justifications. (If you find yourself making the body of law more complex, then you are going down the wrong path.)
Legal justifications are almost invariably based in very basic spiritual concepts. Does the law ever ask the value of life? Yes, but it does not answer this as well as what you will find in the Meier material. With a thorough understanding of the Meier material and the Plejaren perspective on spirituality, you may find that you can add simple depth to the foundation of the common body of legal precedents.
Good luck!
Life
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Cpl
Member
Post Number: 609
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 06:37 pm: |
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Hi Andy,
It's an interesting question you raise. The Plejaren, as you know, do follow legal laws within their global and galactic (Federational) society.
Regarding subjects such as "the law of hygiene" I wouldn't look to where legislation and/or litigation comes in here, rather I would relate these types of subject to the "Philosophy" aspect of your "Philosophy of Law" course. We can say, e.g. that if one violates something that maintains one's health then one will get sick or have health problems. We can philosophically say that there is then a certain "universal law" of health, that if broken leads to sickness in one form or another, and this just arrives naturally and does not require and legal action to be taken -- unless a society deems the preemption of such cause and effect sickness mandatory, which in practice will probably prove impossible due to the endless varieties and complications involved.
I'd then introduce certain philosophical universal laws and these could include laws of Creation, though you might give them individually your own name or just mention their themes and cite Billy as a reference or a possible further reading source if students cannot find other sources themselves.
Basically, the possibility I am suggesting, just for your consideration, is that your course could cover two frontiers: legal laws of the land which carry legal punishment when broken; and philosophical "universal laws" that just naturally result in the reaping of what one sows which probably preempts any need for legal action or punishment.
Students could then discuss these points and think of other philosophical universal laws (or you could suggest themes) and present them to the class for discussion.
Just an idea from one uni Prof to another
Chris
Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Corey
Member
Post Number: 107
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 06:04 pm: |
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Andy,
the laws and recommendations of Creation are based on the natural order of things and are unchangeable and unfortunately earthly laws currently differ from most of those. I don't know if you can read German but OM, Kelch der Wahrheit (Goblet of Truth which most of which has been translated), and Dekalog are good places to read about the laws and recommendations of Creation. Om and the Goblet of Truth list crimes and duration of time that should be spent in a Massnahmeerfüllungsort (place of fufilment of guidelines-like a jail on an isolated island or land tract) be it 7 years for minor infractions or lifetime duration for greater infractions such as murder.
Other crimes, like overpopulation and it's consequences will have to be suffered as the Earth natuarally reduces population levels through cataclysms, natural disasters, and desertification etc... hopefully one day our planet will have strict laws regulating births to the recommended 529,000,000. There is one line you can draw if we don't lower the birthrates we will have to suffer the consequences. Our planet should have direct laws that reflect the laws and recommendations of creation with consequences for breaking those laws which are kindly laid out by our prophet of the newtime: Billy, but unfortunately our planet is not that evolved yet we would have to change our whole penal system to well guarded islands where the offenders learn, work with nature, and provide through work their daily sustenance. Hopefully I answered your question.
Salome
Corey |
Andyv24
Member
Post Number: 19
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 02:25 pm: |
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Thanks a lot, fellows. This forum is really a special place. To clarify, Cpl, I am not a professor, merely a student...
I appreciate the prompt resoponses, gentlemen.
All the best,
Andy |
Sarah
Member
Post Number: 138
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 08:51 am: |
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That creates a possible ethical question to me though Corey, what if the person is simply not physically able to work, because they have a handicap of some sort? Are you seriously considering going back to a devils island type of thing?
Maybe if they are able to physically work, I can understand, but then it has to be reasonable. The Devils island inmates could only wear these shoes that wasnt even suitable for the environment they were working in. And they were often fed rotten food, and whipped, and other stuff.
I have serious question about whether thats really spiritually evolved, I'm sorry. |
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