| Author | Message | ||
    Melissa Member Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2012 |
*[Eddiemartin] "these personalities are no longer living and have long, long since been dead and their bodies dissolved into or absorbed into this material realm." Isn't it true that the spirits connected with these personalities, have reincarnated here on this Earth. Were they considered very spiritual, and if so, wouldn't that mean that they would have to wait for a suitable time or circumstance to reincarnate? Would that mean that some of our past, very spiritual humans were personalities connected to their spirit? Maybe even one of us, are connected and do not realize. Ultimately, there are humans alive today, who's personalities are connected to those spirits and it could be anyone. I think because we do not know, it is OK, and this offers us good practice to accept the things we cannot change, nor control and therefore we do not need to worry. And focus on what we can do, not didn't do or did do, but what we can do now, and how it will effect what we will be doing later to prevent more doo-doo. -Melissa | ||
Bronzedesk Member Post Number: 67 Registered: 01-2011 |
Dearest Hawaiian, Please don't walk away from this... your input is always paramount to this or any forum no matter what people may say or do in order to either agree or disagree with this issue! And Melissa yes you are correct! "Creation doesn't give us what we want! We give creation what it ultimately needs! And anyone who never has made a mistake in his whole entire life has never ever tried to do anything new." | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 381 Registered: 08-2010 |
Hi Mellisa, Very good point. If I recall correctly, I think Billy responded to one of your questions to him, that at the point in human evolution, when we can recall former incarnations, that we will not be interested nor even consider it, shows an incredible insight. It shows, to some extent, that at that point we realize the importance and urgency in personal progression. Any of us condemning anyone in the past should consider that we may be condemning a previous incarnation or personality which our spiritform enlivened. (This may or may not be likely). I can see where there is value in learning from those errors and mistakes...but to condemn shows a severe lack of logic, rational and thinking from a forgiving and understanding perspective. We are not in a position to condemn since we cannot fathom all the particulars which played an influence in the actions or lack of in past-times personalities. These are just ideas and thoughts of mine as I am slowly beginning to learn much in my study of the Goblet of Truth. Salome, Eddie [7:-) | ||
Indi Moderator Post Number: 659 Registered: 06-2006 |
There seems to be some very confusing information circulating in this thread - some of it in line with the teaching material, and some not. It is almost impossible to pick the 'out of line' bits out and correct them when there are so many littered within posts, and it is a big task to keep monitoring for this kind of thing day in and day out and if doing so, get the negative responses from the posters who want their views, whether correct or not, to be held intact. I would suggest to everyone to make sure before 'accepting' blindly what anyone offers here information-wise as fact, to realise that on this forum people who post, often have conflicting perspectives to the FIGU perspectives on things, and to not get 'lost' in those perspectives. Instead, go searching for sources for yourselves, and double check the so-called facts from the source material. It is only in this way that we can avoid being led astray or confused by well meaning posters who have misinterpreted or peppered the original information with their own interpretations. Even translators, inadvertently can change the direction of meaning of texts, merely by their own perspective creating these variances. I know many of you will say that much of the source material is yet to be translated and therefore not able to be checked into or accessed, however, this is really a shallow complaint, in this day of scanners and machine translation and online and offline programs and dictionary resources. There are quite a few people who have bitten the bullet, bought the books, and found a way to access the information contained within those pages, and it is these people who, by making the effort to do this, are able to go and check the source and see whether what is being offered is in line with what has been said by Billy, FIGU or the Plejaren, or the higher levels, such as Arahat Athersata and Petale. Salome Robyn Denken Sie für sich selbst! | ||
Ramirez Member Post Number: 675 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi Eddieamartin, Concerning your curiosity about the process of transition from final re-incarnation to high council level ..... and this ..... "There's no sense going into details because you cannot make use of it anyway. What matters is how life's values are implementated into one's own life. What can be said regarding the transition process from the material world via level of High Council to Arahat Athersata: It's an automatism. Depending on a person's (and his descendant-personalities') efforts and intelligence etc., the process to gain "entrance" into the High Council realm encompasses between 40 and 60 million years. Based on the 60 million, it takes an average of 18 million years incarnated as a human being, and 42 million years in the "Jenseitsbereich" (other world)." Maybe it can be more comfortably understood this way: During material existences occupying a physical body a baby arrives into existence possessing a minimal set of consciousness related capabilities though sufficient to get it oriented and functioning within it's enviroment, some memories, (from the womb) minimal capacity to draw on personal storage banks but no ready made personality, fully functioning high level intellectual awareness or capacity to interact effectively with it's enviroment. So basically a baby awakens into a strange new though instinctively familiar place surrounded by new persons. You might consider this scenario: With passing over into the high council realm it's like waking from a dream in somewhat the way you normally do except at that stage after experiencing the final few incarnations possessing considerable intellectual & psychic powers it's like a lucid dream or consciousness wandering - astral travel sort of experience. There is an awareness, fully functioning mind, capability to move about via thought alone and no sensation of occupying a physical body. You can only really appreciate or understand this if you have had experiences of consciousness wandering - astral travel. The difference between that and normal awake awareness is substantial. So there you are surrounded by a completely new realm, possessing a fully formed functional personality though minus the emotions and reactions normally associated with interacting within a 3rd dimensional enviroment on a normal day to day basis. However for an accurate account i think it's best to ask someone who has actually experienced the transition, remembers it and has returned ..... Mr Meier. However, as a conversation subject it's quite interesting and hooray for those who occupy themselves with questions of this nature. Mr Meier most likely is the most interesting person in the room and probably quite comfortable dealing with such issues ..... what an asset to humanity. Go ask a priest such a question and see what happens  Cheers. | ||
Indi Moderator Post Number: 660 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hi Eddie Savio asked a question re this in the questions to Billy section. Here is a copy of the question and answer: Hi Billy I have a question regarding the half human and half spirit entities as those in the high council. 1. Are they given birth by pure human life form? 2. Or do they change/evolve into half human/spirit life form during a pure human life time? 3. Would these entities give birth to another half human half spirit being? Thanks :-) Savio ANSWER: The existence within the half human/spirit life of the High Council (which can be looked at as some wobbly form) begins after the last death as a coarse-matter human being. The "birth" here is death, and not birth from out of a human mother. The High Council does not give birth to anybody. Salome Robyn Denken Sie für sich selbst! | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 383 Registered: 08-2010 |
Thanks Ramirez and thanks Robyn, Robyn, if I'm now understanding this better; a human being reaches the level of evolution, in which then, the physical body reaches its final point of life and then at a given moment the body dies; followed by the transformation into High Council. I presume that there is a separation of the spiritform from the body. Does this body also transform and then re-animated by the spiritform? Or does the spiritform generate a new body somehow (from electrons[?])? I only need clarity as to where/how does the new body come from that the High Council Being now animates. Thank you for all your troubles and help with this. Salome, Eddie [7:-) | ||
Melissa Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2012 |
*[Eddiemartin] "If I recall correctly, I think Billy responded to one of your questions to him, that at the point in human evolution, when we can recall former incarnations, that we will not be interested nor even consider it, shows an incredible insight. It shows, to some extent, that at that point we realize the importance and urgency in personal progression." Yes, when I asked Billy "At the time of evolution, when we are able to remember all past lives and experiences, will we also have the opportunity to re-visit (via spirit or via personality,) with another who also remembers and who also had a connection with in a previous personality?" I was asking selfishly, for my reasoning was to see if I would possibly be able to one day, maybe very very far from now, to re-visit with the then current spirit/personality connected to my 11 year old son, who passed away not long ago. I thought to myself how I would really like to do that. My initial look at Billy's answer to me was done with protection and defense on my part, then, I finally thought to look once again at his answer, but this time I decided to wear "rosy colored glasses" while reading the answer, and the difference was truly amazing. (It does make a difference, whether choosing to look for higher values vs. lower values.) For the first time I was able to understand how to let go of grief properly, and the common sense behind it. I felt free from my own grief, which I held, because I did not know how to let it be ok for it to not be there anymore. I applied in my mind the logic of Billy's wisdom, which I found in his words and it became certain to me that this was correct thinking. A sort of A-ha! moment. Now, I believe that because I looked for the higher values in his message, I was able to get much good from it. I thank Billy with all of my heart for his words of wisdom. I sense much love and depth in Billy's words, which are there if looked for. -Melissa | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 867 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hello Melissa, You said: "I was asking selfishly, for my reasoning was to see if I would possibly be able to one day, maybe very very far from now, to re-visit with the then current spirit/personality connected to my 11 year old son, who passed away not long ago." I am truly sorry to read this, it might be a good thing for you to know that a true love bond between you and (the spirit) of your son, will exist forever. This love connection is indestructible, and will develop with each reincarnation, up to the time that your spiritform and his will merge with the Creation Universal Consciousness. Salome, Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 384 Registered: 08-2010 |
Hi Mellisa, You are a great mom! :0) Those beautiful thoughts of yours are a reflection of a loving mother. Hope you have had the opportunity to study the Goblet of Truth. It has answered so many questions, corrected so many errors, detailed and explained what spirituality is and how one cultivates it. It teaches about this life, about human beings and their nature. There is so much in there regarding our reality, this existence and even death. In all the religious books I have studied and clergy I have had extensive discussions with, you will find more knowledge, explanations and understanding on one page of the Goblet of Truth than you can find in any of the books I have read or clergy I have had discussions with. It is a shame that the founders of the "gospel of Jesus Christ" changed so much of what Jmmanuel actually said. They removed so much of the empowering information; which is likely why up to 80% of congregants of any religion are poor and remain so all their lives. Salome, Eddie [7:-) | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 93 Registered: 09-2011 |
Howdy Eddie, As I understand it, the process of becoming aware of one's semi-physical 'body' whilst dieing into the High Council is analogous to remembering this state of being, (where what is occurring will always occur). The semi-physical substance that is involved was created during the initial development of the universe. Billy touches upon this in contact number 238: Ptaah 657. Then you now see me astounded, as your assumptions come very close to reality. 657. Dann siehst du mich jetzt erstaunt, denn deine Annahmen kommen der Wirklichkeit sehr nahe. 658. According to our research, and according to information from higher planes, what occurred is that approximately 41,800,000,000,000 years ago that stage of the universe’s development was reached in which the first fine matter began to change into its transitional form and … 658. Gemäss unseren Forschungen und gemäss Informationen aus höheren Ebenen ergab es sich, dass vor ca. 41,8 Billionen Jahren jenes Stadium der Universumsentwicklung erreicht war, dass sich die erste feinstoffliche Materie zur Übergangsform zu wandeln begann und... Billy Excuse me, do you mean that transitional form that looks like a fluctuating, translucent and ungraspable mass, as when, in the reverse case, solid material transforms into fine matter energy or fine matter material? Entschuldigung, du meinst jene Übergangsform, die wie eine wabbernde, durchscheinende und nichtgreifbare Masse aussieht, wie wenn sich im umgekehrten Fall feste Materie in Feinstoffenergie oder in Feinstoffmaterie wandelt? I mean, exactly as is presently the case with the Supreme Council? Gerade so meine ich, wie dies gegenwärtig beim Hohen Rat der Fall ist? Ptaah 659. That corresponds to the meaning of my explanation. 659. Das entspricht dem Sinn meiner Erklärung. Billy And then how long did it take for the first solid material to come into existence? Und, wie lange dauerte es dann, bis die erste feste Materie entstanden war? Ptaah 660. Approximately 1,500,000,000,000 years. 660. Ca. 1,5 Billionen Jahre. Billy And when did the first human life forms come, which then also developed in higher levels, and where did the spirit forms of the different levels come from, like, for example, Arahat Athersata and Petale and so forth? Und wann kamen die ersten menschlichen Lebensformen, die sich dann auch in höhere Ebenen entwickelten, und woher kamen die Geistformen der verschiedensten Ebenen, wie z.B. Arahat Athersata und Petale usw? Ptaah 661. At their formation, all higher levels, through the creativity of Creation, are already equipped with spirit forms which are equipped with the required knowledge and all the wisdom of that pertinent level. 661. Alle höheren Ebenen werden durch die Kreativität der Schöpfung bereits bei ihrem Entstehen mit Geistformen ausgestattet, die mit dem erforderlichen Wissen und aller Weisheit der betreffenden Ebenen ausgestattet sind. 662. These spirit forms then further develop themselves quite normally, so they thus are subject to natural evolution. 662. Diese Geistformen entwickeln sich dann ganz normal weiter, so sie also der natürlichen Evolution eingeordnet sind. 663. They are then, now and again, also the leading and guiding spirit-form powers of these levels for those evolving ones following from lower levels. 663. Sie sind dann jeweils auch die führenden-und leitenden Geistformkräfte dieser Ebenen für jene nachfolgenden Evolutionierenden aus niedereren Ebenen. 664. The first higher forms of life came into being seemingly exactly 39,260,000,000,000 years ago, after which, the possibility was created, through fauna and flora, that even human life could develop, which, since then, evolves during between 60,000,000,000 and 80,000,000,000 years in such a way that it can enter into a half spiritual, and later in a purely spiritual, level of a higher form. 664. Die ersten hohen Lebensformen kreierten vor ziemlich genau 39,26 Billionen Jahren, nachdem durch Fauna und Flora die Möglichkeit geschaffen war, dass sich eben menschliches Leben entwickeln konnte, das seither zwischen 60-80 Milliarden Jahren sich jeweils derart evolutioniert, dass es in halbgeistige und später in reingeistige Ebenen höherer Form eingehen kann. Billy I’ve also thought everything was approximately like that. In etwa so habe ich mir auch alles gedacht. Then I haven't been horribly off the mark. Dann habe ich nicht grass danebengehauen. Perhaps I lie in the realm of the possible, when I assume that coarse matter material does not exist very long, rather, is subject to a constant change of coming into being and passing away. Vielleicht liege ich auch damit im Bereiche des Möglichen, wenn ich annehme, dass grobmaterielle Materie nicht allzulange existiert, sondern einem dauernden Wandel von Werden und Vergehen eingeordnet ist. This might also be the grounds for why you have only found pieces of meteorite as the oldest material which exhibit an age of 37,100,000,000 years. Dies mag auch der Grund dafür sein, dass ihr als älteste Materie nur Meteorstücke gefunden habt, die ein Alter von 37,1 Milliarden Jahren aufweisen. If I have really correctly understood cosmic life, then the coarse material forms out of fine matter material, which, in its turn comes out of fine matter energy, and so forth. Wenn ich das kosmische Leben richtig begriffen habe, dann entsteht die grobmaterielle Materie aus Feinstoffmaterie, die wiederum aus Feinstoffenergie hervorgeht usw. But the coarse matter material, as, for example, suns, moons, asteroids, comets and planets, and so forth, again disintegrate, become dust and gasses, and change back again into energy, into gasses and radiation and the tiniest particles, and so forth, which through the cosmic laws, inevitably again finds itself together, and conglomerates, and new gas and matter clouds form, as well as new galaxies with new sun and planet systems. Die grobstoffliche Materie aber, wie z.B. Sonnen, Monde, Asteroiden, Kometen und Planeten usw., die zerfallen wieder, zerstäuben und vergasen und wandeln sich wieder zurück in Energie, in Gase und Strahlung und winzigste Partikel usw., die durch die kosmischen Gesetze sich zwangsläufig wieder zusammenfinden und -ballen, und neue Gas- und Materiewolken sowie neue Galaxien mit neuen Sonnen- und Planetensystemen entstehen. So there is practically no coarse matter in the universe, neither iron nor other metals nor stone nor minerals, and so forth, which would be older than even perhaps 37,000,000,000 or 40,000,000,000 years, indeed, then, these also exist only in places in the universe where similarly old suns or planet systems and, naturally, also such old galaxies exist, or existed. So findet sich im Universum praktisch keine grobstoffliche Materie, weder Eisen noch sonstige Metalle oder Gestein oder Mineralien usw., die älter wäre als eben vielleicht 37 oder 40 Milliarden Jahre, doch dies dann auch nur an Orten im Universum, wo derart alte Sonnen- oder Planetensysteme und natürlich auch derart alte Galaxien existierten oder existieren. Ptaah 665. You could be one of our scientists, because they have the same explanations. 665. Du könntest einer unserer Wissenschaftler sein, denn diese haben dieselben Erklärungen. Life | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 385 Registered: 08-2010 |
Hey Michaelhelfert, Thanks, really appreciate all the effort you went through. Unfortunately, though it was an interesting look into the universe, it did not answer the question of "where does the body animated by a High Council Being come from?" Salome, Eddie [7:-) | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 868 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hello Eddie, The last death of a human being before he/she enters the level of the high council is different then a 'regular' death. The spirit-form and the overall-consciousness-block does not go into the beyond, but stays together with a fine-material 'body'. Billy says explicitly that the 'birth' of a high council member is the death of their last course-material body, this implies that a fine-material body emerges from the last physical body. Their fine-material body is still capable of having a overall-consciousness-block with a psyche since it is mentioned in the book "The Psyche" of Billy that a human being is only capable of grasping all possible feelings after 42 billion years, which is way longer then the reincarnation cycle of about 60 million years allows. In this case a fine-material body is the carrier of the overal-consciousness-block with a psyche, instead of a course-material one. Fine-material energy is not affected by the 49 billion year regeneration cycle of the universe, since it takes at least 56 billion years to evolve to the level of Arahat Athersata, which would take 7 billion years more then would be possible in the material universe. During 56 billion years there is no reincarnation, because the high council does not procreate since there are no physical bodies to procreate with. Over the billions of years with the increase of their knowledge and wisdom, also increases their power and their fine-material body becomes finer and finer until its purely spiritual. The overal-concsiousness-block merges then with the spirit-consciousness of the spirit, forming a pure spiritform, with its own identity, which is self-aware but not in a human form and enters the grand-collective of Arahat Athersata. Salome, Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Ramirez Member Post Number: 677 Registered: 06-2008 |
All very interesting but something stands out: "661. At their formation, all higher levels, through the creativity of Creation, are already equipped with spirit forms which are equipped with the required knowledge and all the wisdom of that pertinent level." So with this statement it appears that from somewhere within in the pool of available energy (AA - Absolute Absolutum) a former individual spiritform is selected to become a Creation whilst others become existing installed lead spiritforms at the Petale & Arahat Athersata levels and those may be among the next candidates to become Creations for the next cycle of evolution at that level ..... it all makes sense. I'm sure Billy mentioned somewhere spiritforms each have a sort of individual identity and personality even though Petale & Arahat Athersata are a collective. So individuality may continue in some way and not be lost after merging with Creation and also at higher levels. Then here we see either typos or misunderstandings again: "Ptaah 660. Approximately 1,500,000,000,000 years. 660. Ca. 1,5 Billionen Jahre." Getting their zeros confused ..... that should be 1.5 trillion not billion .... 12 zeros = trillion. Cheers. | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 761 Registered: 10-2008 |
Dear Melissa ; I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your son . I hope that your study of this spiritual material will help you in coping . I found that it helped me a great deal in this regard . Salome , Mark | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 232 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hi Jacob, I was wondering where the material brain quotient fits in all this. My understanding is that most peoples brain quotient is around 13 to 14 and that Billy's is at 27. My question is when the is full brain quotient of %100 reached? Is it around the time before going into the High Council level or is it when someone becomes a JHWH like Ptaah? | ||
Edmundo Member Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2008 |
We know that material reincarnation cycle takes approximately 40 to 60 million (Millionen) years. In contrast next stage "half-material" takes 60 to 80 billion (Milliarden) years. Native earthlings spirit-forms are on average 4.5 million years old. But ET spirit-forms (also Plejarens spirit-forms) are about 10 billion years old. Difference between 10 billion (ET age) and 50 million (material stage) is 200 times! I should admit that it's almost unbelievable for how long they were able to procrastinate their evolution. Even if these numbers are only for ET spirit-forms connected to codex, where they chose to suspend their incarnation cycle, the question arises: How it is with spirit-forms not connected to codex, what is average age of their spirit-forms? I mean here for example people from tunguska accident and many others who died here on Earth. Links: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_003 http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/3545.html?1077015049#POST13207 http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_%281998%29#To_date_how_long_has_terrestrial_Man_existed.3F | ||
Edmundo Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2008 |
Matt, I could be wrong, but I belive it is in the end of half-material stage, so just before first pure spiritual level. | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 869 Registered: 01-2004 |
The brain quotient of a Plejaren is also around 27%, it's around the time when a human goes in to the high council. In case of Nokodemjon, his spirit form is modified by Petale and Arahat Athersata to be able to reincarnate into a material body, also his consciousness is throttled back so he still can be amongst Earth humans and with the Plejaren (when Billy changes his vibrational field to match those of the Plejarens). The ET humans on this planet are part of the mission and they volunteered to be part of this mission, in order to be still reincarnating they have been throttled back by the level of Arahat Athersata, so they can still reincarnate. If that wouldn't have happened, they would be in the level of the high council long ago, since at a certain point of evolution, which is measurable in the many millions of years, the human recognizes the need for his/her evolution and will do his/her best to evolve. An excerpt from the book "Die Geschichte Nokodemions" "ein ähnlicher Drosselungsfaktor besteht auch bei all jenen Geistformen, die sich vor 12 Milliarden Jahren freiwillig bereiterklärten, die NokodemionGeistform in ihrer Aufgabe zu unterstützen. Allerdings erfolgte die (Rückstufung> bei dieser grossen Gruppe Menschen in der Art, dass ihre Geist-formen über Milliarden von Jahren reinkarnationsfähig blieben und sie immer wieder als neue Persönlichkeiten in Erscheinung treten konnten, wobei ihre Verpflichtung die ist, immer wieder für die Mission einzutreten und für sie zu arbeiten, und zwar immer dann, wenn die alte Nokodemion-Henok-Geistform am Wirken war oder ist." Rough translation: "A similar throttle factor does also exist for those spiritforms who agreed voluntarily 12 billion years ago to support the Nokodemion spiritform in its task. But the process of downgrading of this large group of people took place in such a way that their spiritforms stayed capable of reincarnation for billions of years and could appear again and again as new personalities, their obligation is to, again and again to work for the mission and work for him, and always when the old-Nokodemion Henok-form spirit is or was at work." In the year 3999 both Nokodemjon and his followers will leave this planet for good. This coincides with the end of the Aquarian age 1844-3999} Salome, Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Jacob Moderator Post Number: 870 Registered: 01-2004 |
The spiritform merges with the Universal consciousness Creation in the highest level of Petale to become one with the Universal consciousness Creation. In the pure spiritual levels (Arahat Athersata - Petale) the pure spiritforms retain their individuality even when they form a collective. The pure spirit levels of Arahat Athersata up to Petale were filled by the Universal Consciousness Creation, so they would help the evolution of the next lower level. Salome, Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Edmundo Member Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2008 |
Jacob, do you know anything about other ETs spirit-forms (not connected to Nokodemion's people), how many are here and how different is their evolution level in comparison to other people on Earth? | ||
Justsayno Member Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2009 |
Hi Edmundo, I would think since the tunguska event ETs chose to commit suicide, their spirit forms were able to enliven a human fetus almost immediately after. They then take on the incarnation rules of the planet where they died. I would assume that their lives are not going to be much different in length than a regular human, although they may live longer in their first incarnation as a human being. Good, better, best. May you never rest, until your good is better, and your better best. | ||
Matt Member Post Number: 233 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks Jacob, but that doesn't mean that every one or spirit has to go through the High Council to get into AA? Can they do this independent of the HC? |
