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Archive through April 13, 2012

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Jacob
Moderator

Post Number: 873
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2012 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls,

Man up and get control of your life, study the Talmud Jmmanuel and take responsibility for your own thoughts, feelings and actions, and no, you are certainly not the only one who has to deal with 'shit' in his/her life. We are all on the same boat called Earth and have to make the best of it.

The Creation Universal Consciousness can't be compared even remotely to the human, so stating it that it does crime is nonsense.
Salome,
Jacob

Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Redhalls
Member

Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Creation Universal Consciousness can't be compared even remotely to the human, so stating it that it does crime is nonsense."

But who created the possibility for such things as crime? As far as I know Creation created everything. So it can't be more obvious to me that Creation created the possibility for evil to occur and obviously knew that evil will occur. It created every thing. The reason why it created evil I don't know maybe it had no other option.

So I don't see it as some kind/loving "father or mother" but just as someone doing what it has to... and can't understand why what it has to do is so important as to create universes filled with evil stuff.

Couldn't it "invent" something different? Why didn't it bother to create universes with evil?

I would like to know those answers in detail...

I did read Talmud and other books by Meier and they make sense to me.

(I know I won't get the answers)
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls,

As you know we have a free will. Therefore we create the evil that is in us. Sure the bafath
and other races can influence our minds but we are strong enough to act or reject those evil thoughts. There is no such thing as evil only the opposite of good.

Peace,
Joe}
joe
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All

I agree with Jacob why do we have to resort to calling and upsetting each other.This is supposed to be a forum to learn , not to antagonise.People please grow up.
joe
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Matt
Member

Post Number: 235
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls, Creation gave us "free will" to do what we want in our lives. I think there-in lies your answer.
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Patm
Member

Post Number: 136
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls,

RE:
But who created the possibility for such things as crime? As far as I know Creation created everything. So it can't be more obvious to me that Creation created the possibility for evil to occur and obviously knew that evil will occur. It created every thing. The reason why it created evil I don't know maybe it had no other option.


Through common sense and reason we have the capability of understanding the creation-natural laws and recommendations.

from the Goblet of Truth - Introduction - Good or Evil - what is Human nature? - Billy Meier - 27 July 2008

No human being is fundamentally evil, because he or she is not genetically programmed by nature for Gewalt and manipulation. The abysses of evil, Gewalt, revenge and retribution, dishonesty and hatred as well as jealousy and falseness as well as everything else that is degenerated and unworthy of human beings only develop during the course of life. And when these abysses of evil open, it is not rarely the case that they open so wide that a human being who has lapsed into evil can no longer find his or her way back to goodness.

No human being is evil, Gewalt-acting or degenerative in one or another way in his or her natural state, because no human being is fundamentally and genetically coded for Gewalt. The truth is that the evil in human beings is learned by them during life, something which can happen even from an early stage of childhood or only later with advancing years. Indeed, there is no age limit placed on learning Gewalt-acts, evil and every possible type of degeneracy, which means that even a human being who has lived a good, peaceful and Gewalt-less (without Gewalt) life can suddenly lapse into acts of Gewalt in old age if he or she falls into the appropriate circumstances of living by means of which he or she leads himself or herself to Gewalt.


... and much more ... for you to take the time to read and study for a clearer understanding of evil. Again the place to find this and more is:
the Goblet of Truth - Introduction - Good or Evil - what is Human nature? - Billy Meier - 27 July 2008

It is the basic premise of God belief to place all responsibility on a creator God for all good and evil allowing the believer to relinquish all responsibility for the evil they have learned since childhood.

Take the responsibility for what you have learned, in the way of evil, through your life and do something about it. Don't try to place the blame for it on Creation for creating the possibility which you hold all responsibility for.

PatM
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Redbeard
Member

Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 07:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Red halls,
I think that the answer you are looking for is not an answer at all but a release from pain. Consequences are ever present , built in by of course, you guessed it, creation. There's nothing anyone can do to Change that. It sucks sometimes this life does but not every situation has to be a black hole.

Peace, Matt
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 701
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2012 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Redhalls

This is my interpretation.

If Evil is defined as wrong doings performed to other person, then, there will be no Evil if there exits no human being.

When the universe first came into existent, for billions of years, there was no human being exited hence there was no evil, and, we cannot say that Creation created evil, something that it never did.

Much much later, when human beings came into existent, according to their own free will, some of them chose to perform evil things against each other, to this end, they were not being told to do so.

Hence, what we can say is: Creation created a universe that human beings are born with their own free will, and it is the human beings themselves whom defined what is good and what is evil.
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Stephen_moore
Member

Post Number: 309
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 06:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Creation has not created evil. Creation is pure love, universal love and therefore does not create evil.

Human beings also are not born evil or knowing evil. The Spirit-form is neutral. Evil is something human beings create and learn as they develop through life.

An example of this could be a murderer who is born void of thoughts and feelings of hate and murder. As this human being grows he/she starts to create the wrong thoughts and feelings. Then at a point will not be able to control his/her thoughts and feelings and will become sick in their consciousness and thus murder someone out of jealousy, revenge and so on. This act has nothing to do with Creation. Creation did not command or influence this persons wrong doing. The human being is solely responsible for the thoughts, feelings and actions.

Salome
Website addresses - www.ufofacts.co.cc - www.thecircleforhumanity.net
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Chasekahn747
Member

Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is referred to understandingly as "evil" is natural error and part of the cycle of life. It is evident in contrast of nature such things as night/day. Wake/sleep...knowledge/unknowledge..it exist simply as a part of the way of being and is conquered thru knowledge of truth not in fear and miss understanding which is similar to walking in the dark.
I Like you am searching for the meaning of Truth in The spirit teachings...since I am human like you..I too have to search and perceive..and in so doing may grasp the laws of Creation,,judging according to the laws of nature which are of creation...so be it..
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Redhalls
Member

Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't agree with anyone sorry :-)

I know about free will and read Goblet of truth, etc... Creation created everything and knew humans with their free will it gave them will do evil. They do it cuz they're stupid.

What I'm saying is it knows all and sees all and knew they will do evil the beings it created. So ok that may not mean it did crime/evil itself but there should be some reason to allow such thing.

What is it?

So anyway thanks and hope didn't annoy some folks...
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Redhalls
Member

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I shouldn't have said I don't agree with you since your information is good it just doesn't answer the questions I have.
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Jacob
Moderator

Post Number: 874
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's your right not to agree with anyone, but your preconceived thinking does not allow to really think about others opinions and point of view, nor did you truly read or study the Goblet of Truth.
In any material universe, including ours is it absolutely necessary that illogic and logic go together to enable evolution.

Illogic manifests itself as a mistake made of not knowing an important factor in a cause and effect process so the end result will be not the desired result.

An example:

If a stuntman wants to jump with his car over several obstacles, then he has to know and calculate all variables like distance, take off speed of his car, the mass of his car, the angle, etc. etc.
If he forgets one of those important factors or calculate it incorrectly it could lead to disaster.
This is per definition a mistake.

When a human does act upon the impulse to gain power over people or a situation it is always driven out of an egotistical motivation, to have more control and more material riches in his possession, also this stems basically from the lack of understanding and ignorance about the fact that nothing in the material realm lasts forever.

Why focus on gaining control over things which will wither away with absolute certainty?

In fact people who do 'evil' according to Earth human understanding do that out of an inadequate level of consciousness-related/spiritual development.

The fact that these things exist is that the evolution of every human in every universe is unique and follows over its own path, thereby the human has the absolute free will to choose whatever path he/she wishes to take, within the framework of the natural-creative laws and recommendations.

It's not respectful to call people stupid, people have to follow their evolution and making mistakes is a part of that.
It is only stupid to act willingly and knowingly against better knowledge.
It's also considered nice to use more decent English and use regular English words like 'because' instead of 'cuz', it seems a bit childish.
Salome,
Jacob

Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Benhilo
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2012
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2012 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Savio (post #701)just that I would have added to the last sentence "through their actions".
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Redhalls
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 01:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Long answer Jacob you may be very kind and know a lot but doesn't answer my question:

"What I'm saying is it knows all and sees all and knew they will do evil the beings it created. So ok that may not mean it did crime/evil itself but there should be some reason to allow such thing.

What is it?"

I'm just interested in answers what you say is definitely good but my question is probably a mystery no one can yet answer. So you're trying to give me all information but they're not the answer.

Cuz is a short word like: FYI BRB ETC
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Jacob
Moderator

Post Number: 875
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can also see it from these viewpoints:

- Your question is not formulated logically or clear enough.
- You cant or wont accept the answers given to you by me and other forum members because it seems improbable to you, or you cant grasp the answer yet, given you by other members.

Dont assume that the answer is wrong or not, analyse your question and see if its logical or not.
An answer is often just as logical or illogical as the preceding question.
Salome,
Jacob

Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Johnnybalmain
Member

Post Number: 156
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if I am wrong but our spirit is a fraction of creation and our spirit does not think. Creation is the all encompassing and does not think.
Peace John
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Stephen_moore
Member

Post Number: 310
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 02:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls

Quoting you "What I'm saying is it knows all and sees all and knew they will do evil the beings it created. So ok that may not mean it did crime/evil itself but there should be some reason to allow such thing.

What is it?"

OK, try and think of it like this, this is my understanding.

Creation does not interfere with the thoughts, feelings and actions of the human being. This means that if a human being is thinking and will 100% do something wrong Creation allows this. Creation will not break its own laws to prevent something happening. In this case free will and evolution of the human being. This would lead to chaos within the universe.

By allowing the human being to make mistakes and do "evil" the Creation is allowing the human being to learn from this and allowing others to learn from this also so that they hopefully do not make the same mistake.

The material universe is the lowest form of spiritual energy within the Creation. Our Spirit-forms and overall consciousness block are first void of any knowledge and wisdom. This is built up over billions of lifetimes. So there has to be mistakes in order to learn. If Creation interfered then how could the learning and evolution work. It would be like having a nanny constantly looking over your shoulder and telling you what is right and wrong, and from this the human being would not truly understand why something is right or wrong because the experience has not been had and the correct thoughts, knowledge and wisdom attained.

I hope I tried to explain this clearly.

Salome
Website addresses - www.ufofacts.co.cc - www.thecircleforhumanity.net
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Eddieamartin
Member

Post Number: 393
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Redhalls

I like your question. It will serve a good purpose for those who are perhaps perplexed by similar thoughts.

The key to your query is "the why" and "what" is so important, what does it serve, that Creation created a universe with so much "bad stuff" that it created evil that could be experienced by the humans, and, even amongst all fauna and flora.

The answers are actually found in retrospection and introspection of one's own life in its entirety.

In doing so myself, I can clearly see that bad and evil are not necessarily considered so from certain perspectives. Never the less, when one contemplates the laws and recommendations of Creation and couple this with the body's ability to allow such variety of experiences, to be felt through the physical body that we animate while in this material realm, we can then reflect on our own life experiences and understand the "why." Even if our life spans were in the hundreds of thousands of years, that course-material body would decay at some point, then, all the experiences are neutralized and learned from. This then allowing another opportunity, with a new body and so on, with impulses to assist in furthering our individual progression. This you and many of us here know.

What we all have to realize is that what we experience through the human body is just that, an experience, which, a second after it happens is nothing more than a memory. Since most people erroneously justify evil thoughts and actions at the time of the decision to act out the evil, it is generally not possible to reflect on it at that moment and consider all the factors involved with the act or action. We can get side-tracked however with the word "evil" or "bad" and so on. For example, we can simultaneously experience love and evil at the exact same time. Someone physically attacks someone we love and we want to retaliate and hurt them back. At this moment the act of retaliating is not perceived as evil, especially if the retaliation successfully stopped further hurt to the loved one. Now, the Creation did not create either act of violence. Violence harms nothing until it makes contact with the nervous system of the body so that it can be felt. Here is the interesting part. The nervous system is there to protect us from damaging the body or psyche so that we can make the most of each life's experiences and not suddenly drop dead from unawareness of a potentially fatal self-inflicted injury. It also protects us from injuring our psyche through personal forgiveness and admonishment.

It is through our own experiences of pain that a realization is gained regarding pain. Pain, interestingly enough, is what helps us avoid damage or further damage to the body we animate. Acupuncture needles can heal when they penetrate the body to a certain depth and we would be warned of damage by the nervous system if the needle goes further into the skin. Love is what drives us to attack an aggressive, angry larger person that was hurting or intending to hurt a loved one and it is justified...until it is our loved one who is the aggressive and angry larger person hurting someone and they get seriously hurt. But consider that what we act out as evil in attacking another human being or creature, is actually a self-defense or self-preservation mechanism or potentiality in case we run across a tiger in the jungle. The tiger is fulfilling its programming to satisfy hunger pangs by consuming a weak or slow animal...which, interestingly enough, keeps the animal kingdom in balanced population and that allows us to learn from nature itself.

But back to my point; creation did not give us strength in our arms so we could attack with it, but, to fulfill the idea of cause = effect in that we must labor for and exert ourselves to fulfill and understand self-responsibility; by providing our own shelter from the elements, farming of food for our sustenance, writing to share insights on this forum... :0)

What I would suggest one do is take to the Goblet of Truth, and, in a notebook, write out the various principles taught. Then one must couple this with the design, make up, function and components of the body. Because looking solely at the 'experience' of what we consider a wrong, evil, bad and so on without looking at the magnificence of the idea of the design and nature of the bodies we incarnate into is an evil itself. In this regard, this particular evil is actually for our own good in that it brings into awareness personal evolution or devolution. After all, in its infinite and omnipotent wisdom and knowledge (which is why Creation does not need to think in order to figure out something it already understands and knows), the Creation already established the levels of progression until we merge with it just as evolved and powerful as the Creation itself.

I can see that when individuals come to this thread and read the responses provided to your questions, they will be privileged and fortunate to read these responses that cover various areas of knowledge and understanding, giving them a more 3-D view and understanding of such a complex and intricately created course-material realm and existence.

Great question my friend.

Salome,
Eddie
[7:-)
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Savio
Senior Member

Post Number: 702
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Redhalls and all

Please excuse my typo within (post #701) where "exits" should be "exists" and "exited" should be "existed".

My interpretation again ...

Creation is pure spirit, within the spiritual dimension there exists neither "good or evil", nor "right or wrong", there exists only "pure logic".

Regarding the idea that "Creation created an environment that Human can exist with free will and might perform evil."

The question asked should be: "Is this a logical decision?" rather than "Is this a good or bad decision?"

Being human, we will try to think of a decision with our human mind:-

Consider: [What a world would be, if we all have no free will?]

We will behave just like all other animals, we will react just like all other animals, we will have no decision making and no choice, Self-awareness will be nightmare, we all will be robots, and we know nothing about good or evil.

Is this a desirable kind of life?

As human, if we are allowed to choose between "a life with Free Will" and "a life that like robots", what will be our decision?


Obviously, it is only “logical” that our choice will be "A life with Free Will".

Creation is spirit, and, spiritual beings react/decide according to pure logic, hence it is as logical as we do that Creation created the existing evolution environment.
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Hawaiian
Member

Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redhalls,
I can see your frustrations in the majority of the answers to your question in regards to creation being a part of evilness just like there are positives, there are also negatives. Technically speaking it is correct to say that Creation does not create evilness, which is a “learned” response since every infant born is not yet corrupted by these degenerated attributes.

However evilness perpetuates itself through “positive” feedback such as the power of lust over others as in cases of rape and religious oppression and continues down this path until either he/she “relearns” not to continue because of self-guilt OR another higher force intervenes for the sake of both the oppressor and victim’s spiritual evolution. As far as I can remember both avenues of approaches are practically non-existent.
There have and continue to influence others by others like in the case of the Giza sending telenotic impulses to negatively influence others to do their dirty work which pretty much went unhindered by others of highly evolved intelligences including the Plejarens who say they adhere strictly to creational laws and directives yet “allow” such evil acts to occur until they finally removed them in the 1980’s because the Giza became a threat to their mission. Even so, the Plejaren themselves admit the negative influences that the Giza produced on Earth will have a lingering effect for more than 200 or more years.

Then to make matters worse, the Plejarens “allowed” the Sirian commandos to wipe out all the buildings and manmade structures on Mars after they arrested the men in black because of some “Sirian law” that permits such action at the detriment of Earth humans. In one report Semjase speaks that one day Earth humans will discover the ancient ruins on Mars and will learn that mankind is not alone in the universe, but you can kiss that statement goodbye.

So yes you have a point when you say creation is part of the continuation of evil, because those who are in power and do adhere in so called creation endeavors, who are in essence “representatives” of creation did not act accordingly to intervene in a timely manner to bring about the proper balance amongst those of evilness who abuse others, which in turn cause them to degenerate both in spirit and body.
In the end, the Gizas are all dead and probably more dangerous if allowed to incarnate because they apparently did not learn anything since trying to again kill Billy from that desolate prison planet and of course the Plejarens did not use common sense in utilizing telenotic “retraining techniques on the Giza dreams.
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Jacob
Moderator

Post Number: 876
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 03:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hawaiian,

Quoting: "There have and continue to influence others by others like in the case of the Giza sending telenotic impulses to negatively influence others to do their dirty work which pretty much went unhindered by others of highly evolved intelligences including the Plejarens who say they adhere strictly to creational laws and directives yet “allow” such evil acts to occur until they finally removed them in the 1980’s because the Giza became a threat to their mission. Even so, the Plejaren themselves admit the negative influences that the Giza produced on Earth will have a lingering effect for more than 200 or more years.

Then to make matters worse, the Plejarens “allowed” the Sirian commandos to wipe out all the buildings and manmade structures on Mars after they arrested the men in black because of some “Sirian law” that permits such action at the detriment of Earth humans. In one report Semjase speaks that one day Earth humans will discover the ancient ruins on Mars and will learn that mankind is not alone in the universe, but you can kiss that statement goodbye." – end quote.

It is really staggering how you, as my fellow Earthhuman being, living on our planet where traveling a few thousands miles takes hours, where all kinds of cult-religions and politics cause so many problems, extreme overpopulation exists, etc. etc.that you as a Earthhuman, know it better then the Plejarens.
The Plejarens are humans who have true peace for 50,000 years, have a current average lifespan of 1050 years, who can travel time and the universe as easy as walking in a parc, and on top of that live on a unpolluted planet in constant great advances in technical, consciousness-related and spiritual development.
This lacks so much respect; even the state of Texas is not big enough for your Ego.

(Message edited by jacob on April 12, 2012)
Salome,
Jacob

Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Hawaiian
Member

Post Number: 63
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jacob,

The biggest problem with most who study creational materials often at fault hold these Plejarens on a too high esteem and often attack those who question their so-called elevated spiritual status which of that 50,000 years of evolution was pretty much protected from outside influence or molestation, so yes they were very fortunate to live in a sterilized environment which naturally in indusive for development.

Well Earth has always been interfered with by other ET's throughout its history and often served as a planet of refugee for not just the malevolent ET's but others as well who often fought amongst themselves here on Earth and destroyed it on more than a few occasions. If people think that these ET's including the Plejarens are so developed and without fault, then you are living in a fantasy world they do make mistakes, but have a life cycle more than 10 times of yours to learn and adjust.

Had they applied themselves more prudently and used logic and compassion, the Gizas would probably have changed for the better, but no their (spirits) are now a problem for the Arahat Athersata to determine if these spirit forms are destined for another incarnation based on their material conscious development if any? So yes evilness is not a product of creation, but prevails because those in power to bring about a balance between these negative forces do not act in accordance to a timely logical manner...as Billy once said "it is the now, the present act that matters, not a delayed action be it minutes, hours, years or thousands of years"

I don't disrespect the Plejarens, I just question the motive they sometimes appear too appeasing to other ET's who have laws that supersede the spiritual evolution of Earthly humans who have too often been subjected to outside interferences, as in this Mars case as well as the Tunguska event.

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