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Archive through May 06, 2012

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Spiritual Teaching » Meditation » Archive through May 06, 2012 « Previous Next »

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Jokoveltman
Member

Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alex,

I have never read anything by Billy in "Meditation aus klarer Sicht" (nor anywhere else) that says that music with lyrics should be avoided at all costs, nor that breathing meditations are just for relaxation.

On the contrary, one is free to listen to music as one wishes; certain negative effects may arise from illogical lyrics or unharmonious music, but that is no injunction against lyrical music. Near the end of "Meditation aus klarer Sicht", Billy does talk about music meditation, in which one uses a piece of harmonious music as the object of meditation. In this case, though Billy doesn't mention it, I can see how lyrical music in a language one understands would not be a good choice ... but not only is this my own thought on the matter, but is is also in no way a general prohibition against music with words.

Billy spends many pages in "Einführung in die Meditation" (and also some in "Meditation aus klarer Sicht") discussing breathing-awareness meditation. Obviously, it is more than merely useful as a "relaxation exercise".

Finally, your statement, "Without consistency, your progress becomes pointless" is incorrect. ALL progress is valuable and NEVER pointless. It is true that no great progress will be made without striving, system, and order. But that does not rob any effort and the resulting progress, however small, of it's value.



Jun,
You may meditate whenever you wish. Of course some situations may be considerably more difficult than others, some are impossible (during a conversation, for example), and some would just be foolish (e.g. while driving down a busy street).

Salome,
Timothy
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Sarah
Member

Post Number: 95
Registered: 10-2011
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 06:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just really need to learn German in and of itself. Does the book provide info on suggested Yoga routines? Or will I just have to find that myself? I think the only reason I can't do the lotus is because of my linberness. I'm sure that can be improved. I just recently started getting back into shape anyway.
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Jokoveltman
Member

Post Number: 77
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sarah,
Yes, learning German is a must for anyone who wishes to study the spiritual teaching.

There are no "suggested Yoga routines" in either of Billy's meditation books. Don't worry about the lotus position - meditation can be done in any position that doesn't cause discomfort - and even in movement.

Salome,
Timothy
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Nuetralperson
Member

Post Number: 25
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Timothy,

I agree that my word pointless is careless and I will be more careful next time, thank you. "Meditation requires a very serious and objective commitment in order to lead to results" in eduards book is the reason for me saying this. It is very necessary to do meditation everyday, to therefore fulfill the "very serious and objective commitment". You are right about focus breathing meditation, but if you read my posts the discussion is about no thought meditation, so the breathing is for just relaxation, nothing else. The lyric music comment is from my own recommendation-suggestion, I have NEVER said that it was from his book. The only statements I used from him, were, no thought, and complete relaxation during no thought meditations. It is only a recommendation/suggestion, and therefore stays that way. I am merely offering tips, for the basics, and to help people achieve no thoughts, and relaxation. Hope that clears up the confusion!

Salome

Alex
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Markcampbell
Member

Post Number: 715
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The lotto position sounds like a real winner !
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Mahigitam
Member

Post Number: 485
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Billy spends many pages in "Einführung in die Meditation" (and also some in "Meditation aus klarer Sicht") discussing breathing-awareness meditation. Obviously, it is more than merely useful as a "relaxation exercise". "

Thank you Timothy. I read from Billy that concentration meditation(developing concentration) is important before going into MEDITATION. Where can i find the breathing meditation steps. Closing eyes and focussing on breathe-in & breathe-out....i forgot where i read that.
Beware the fallacies into which undisciplined thinkers most easily fall--they are the real distorting prisms of human nature - Francis Bacon
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 2310
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2011 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mahigitam....

Yes, positive to hear what you mentioned in your posting.

I always started of with - Breathing Technique -....before I were to Meditate.
[Which, I mentioned here...in the past...]

Good to know, Billy mentions this. I had not come across it yet.


Edward.
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Sarah
Member

Post Number: 115
Registered: 10-2011
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've recently attempted meditation a few times, even though I don't as of yet have a meditation pyramid. I've been trying to do it roughly twenty to sixty seconds a day so far.C:
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Thomas
Member

Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>I always thought that peristalsis was just swallowing or contraction-like = movement of the digestive track so I am confused Mike?!?
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Peter_brodowski
Member

Post Number: 580
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi sarah,
you do not need a meditation pyramid to meditate. all you need is the motivation and the serious attitude towards the endevour.
i can tell you from experience that you will find results, even if your practices are not exactly strict and daily routine. that is what i have found to be most interesting is that throughout my 8 years of meditation, i have covered a vast spectrum of frequency/practice... and what i have determined is that How much you put in (focus and effort) determines how much you get back... but regardless, you are sure to find something of value from the experience.
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Ilovebilly
Member

Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

G'day Folks

What do you think this guy is doing?

1st thing to pop into your head



Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Justsayno
Member

Post Number: 439
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Peter, I would say the use of a light bulb in the pyramids.
Good, better, best. May you never rest, until your good is better, and your better best.
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Ramirez
Member

Post Number: 659
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking into a communication device.
Cheers.
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Davidmg
Member

Post Number: 108
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ilovebilly;

Well the first thing that pops in my mid is that you should be posting this in ....

Discussionboard of FIGU
-- General Area
---- Non-FIGU Related
-------- Poetry, Music, and Art

your reply is there.

Davidmg
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Ilovebilly
Member

Post Number: 67
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

G'day Folks

Keep em comin, what else looking at his head? not just his hands.

Ramirez G'day Mate, what else looking at his head?

Justsayno, what else looking at his head?

Davidmg is it mate, it didnt show post it here please

Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining
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Damian_jones
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2012
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone, first time poster.After becoming interested in buddhism I found billy meier on the web and his teachings seem to strike a chord with me.Now I know youre supposed to learn german first, but I would like to ask if anyone has any instructions/explanations on the no thought and wishfull dream meditations.Thanks in advance for any replies.
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Ilovebilly
Member

Post Number: 106
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

G'day Futuregod19 Welcome

In regard to your post in (The Mission) section about meditation

I see from your name you have the right attitude mate, What country are you from usa?

Beam says Its important we dont have Mental illness to start meditating, not saying you do just if you do get to know the teachings its more important as meditation can worsen the illness

Perception:
To get over noises around you try and consider common noises as soothing like a sign of progress or family then they fade away

e.g. A noisy train or cars at night is a sign of civilisation and people at work/travel, it can be soothing then not heard

Or someone washing up the dishes can get me into a higher meditation state, the clink clink sounds do something for me that relaxes me fully, i feel something in my head/neck relax

Works for me it will for others eh eh

You can turn bad things into good

In Meditation (without trying) you can drift off and not hear after a while as it becomes unimportant to the meditation

Practice makes perfect, 3 or 4 times a day for 5 to 10 mins each or longer

Or try fast meditations while on the train or while in a noisy crowd, like you are just closing your eyes for a minute or two with sunglasses on so they dont know, this way you get used to loud noises and meditation at any time is available too you, then it seems quite when you are meditating in less noisy (your normal) surrounds (Perception)

Most of the Time we need to be Neutral Positive
Thats feeling neutral with a slight positive for evolution

Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings.
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Ilovebilly
Member

Post Number: 114
Registered: 04-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 - 02:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

G'day

Turn a bad thing into a good thing:

Did you know tv is designed to put you in a meditative state

You can use that to your advantage, as we all watch some tv. After you watched what you want mute the sound on the tv and go into yourself

ask your spirit and your body to do what you want, you can even change your DNA like when you are in mums tummy

Salome
Peter
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings.
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Esirfloe
New member

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2012
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello there, my friends!

This is my very first post on FIGU board. Welcome.
I am very sorry for my poor English - this is not my native language, so I count on your understanding. :-)

Please, I have a few issues in regard to the concentration and proper meditation in general.
Too bad that books concerning these matters are not available; as far as I'm convinced, best books to start are 'Die Psyche' and 'Einführung in die Meditation'. When I write 'not available', I mean: not available in English language, of course. I had some lessons of German, but I don't know it very well - especially from the practical side and usage. Never been in German speaking environment, therefore, I cannot comunicate nor read. I only know a few simple words and outline of grammar. :-|
Future of mankind (www.futureofmankind.co.uk) is, therefore, a real mine of knowledge about the teaching of the spirit, creation laws and recomendations, life in general, natural logic, and so on and so forth. But it doesn' match a strong example, explanation and guidance.

Now, my questions... Please, answer in detail and correct me if I am wrong. Also, it would be very nice if I could recieve the answers directly from Edward. If this is impossible, it would be nice if somebody from FIGU group answers. I believe competence is vital in these matters.

-------

It is not wise to begin practising meditation without substructure, which is concentration. I have found Concentration Exercise Schedule (http://ca.figu.org/Meditation.html), from which my concentration abilities should be awakened/learned.

My questions in regard to these exercises are as follows:
The first 8 days of concentration I should... as it is written, concentrate on the word 'Sun'. What does it mean? Should I think about it or should I picture the word 'Sun' in my imagination while looking at the focal point? Is there any matter with the language? Is it any diffrence if I imagine/think this word in German or Polish? 'Die Sonne' or 'Słońce'? May I replace entirely the word itself with an image of our actual star (Sun) while looking into candle's flame and focus only on that - visualisation of Sun by the power of imagination?

The next step consist of 6 days of concentration... on nothing. Meaning of this is pure observation of the focal point. Empty-minded state. Only observation. Is that correct?

Again, next 6 days - concentration on red or golden rose. Picturing the image of it in my mind's imagination, is that correct?

And then, on 21st day on my Concentration Exercise Schedule there is: 'After the 21st day there should be a daily practice of the concentration exercise lasting 10 to 15 minutes PLUS 15 minutes of what would you like to realise or of something that brings joy/pleasure.'
Well, it is written what should I do... But... I still ask for patience and answers, please:
So, in total, on 21st day of Concentration Practice I should do my exercise for 0,5 hour? 15 minutes of pure concentration... But, 15 minutes of pure concentration on what? Sun? Red/Golden rose? Something else? Or should I be thoughtless?
And then, after these 15 minutes of concentrating, there comes 'Wishful Dream' in realisation or thinking about something joyfull. What does it mean? If I choose and would like to realise the nature of the black holes, then it would come to me? Even in mathematical formula? If my actual name doesn't fit me, should I focus on my real, spirit-related name, then it would come into my mind also? Or maybe it has nature of motivation to fulfill my duties, tasks, goals? Or even materialisation of an actual object that I demand/need with regard to attracting it to my life? How does it work?... Alternatively...
...additional 15 minutes of focusing on something that brings pleasure. That is, in fact, quite clear - for example, if I like to imagine picture of a growing grass, night sky, movement of a cat, then I should just do it?
That is a silly one, but if I'm done with my 15 minutes of pure concentration/thoughtless-mode, how should I know if my time passed and I should go on to wishful dreaming? I should use a timer with a quiet tone, right?

Questions, questions. :-)
Why these exercises are put in such a hierarchy: sun, no-thoughts, roses, concentration + wishful dreaming? Why in that order? And why subjects of concentration are as they are? Why Sun? Why rose? Realisation is logical - to educate myself, if I get answers... But even then, from where are those answers coming from? How will I know if they are correct? What is the purpose of wishful dreaming? Is there something on the mathematical side of these exercises? 8 days - 6 days - 6 days - ...

Suppose that I am done with my Concentration Exercise Schedule. Can I do those exercises longer? Let's say gradualy extending concentration exercise to 0,5 hour plus 0,5 hour of wishful dreaming, which, in total, gives one hour of Daily Concentration Exercise.
I have read that doing these with motivaion, volition and perservance will lead to actual meditative state, but I don't even ask what should I do from there, becouse I am not there yet.


I really ask for answers and help. Thank you.

PS. What is Zohar? In detail, please. In detail... And one more thing about exercises: if there is another person in room/house does it bother/have influence on my practising? Of course, with assumption that this person doesn't interrupt in my Concentrative/Meditative state in any way (mental/physical/verbal) - just doing his/her stuff.

I will read to anyone, but my request is to get these answers directly from Edward. If not then I would like to read answers of someone from FIGU grup - please introduce yourself and write down your task in organisation. :-) And again; I ask for patience and understanding. :-)
Love.
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Tom
Member

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2012 - 01:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Esirfloe

Welcome to the forum. :-)

I have completed the concentration exercise course two times now and can comment based on my own experience, which is hopefully of assistance to you. I completed the course based only on the same instructions which you have read. I am assuming that these exercises have been derived from one of Billys books, published in German. Someone who has read the correlating text will be able to answer your question more comprehensively.

Note: I completed all of the exercises described below sitting upright on a chair.

Concentration on the Candle:

I did not have a candle, but instead used an apple for these exercises. While mentally chanting "apple", which for me seemed to happen autonomously, I tried to solely focus on the apple's physical image, without any thoughts penetrating my attention. My mind would wander, but I would aim to quickly refocus on the apple's physical image. As I progressed through these 8 days, my mind wandered less frequently during the exercises, and when it strayed I was also able to realise more quickly, allowing me to refocus sooner. When my mind wandered from the focus on the apple, I am assuming that the autonomous mental chanting of apple helped remind me that I should be focusing on the apple, and I consciously diverted my attention back to focussing on the apple.

Does anyone know if there are any advantages associated with using a candle over an apple?

In my opinion: This exercise is useful for developing the intensity and duration of focus which we can exert during tasks requiring our visual attention. It trains us to sill the mind, allowing more attention be be directed towards the present objective or task which we are undertaking. To my understanding, by improving the intensity and duration which we can visually focus, we can improve the quantity of visual information which we can remember through observation in everyday life. After completing all three exercises, I found that the visual focus required the least skill and willpower, making it a logical place to begin the course.

Thoughtlessness:

For the thoughtlessness exercise, I chose to complete this with my eyes closed and use pure observance of the feeling in my body. I pushed stray thoughts out of my mind as soon as I realised that they were present. I am not sure if the technique I adopted for this exercise is completely correct, but found that over the 6 days the stray thoughts reduced in quantity and duration. As I progressed through the 6 days, I also found it became easier to complete the 12 minutes duration of the exercise. In my opinion, being able to maintain a state of pure observance for 12 minutes could have a positive effect on a ones patience.

I am interested to know if there are errors in the technique which I used for thoughtlessness?

Visualisation:

I found the visualisation exercises required the highest level of willpower, which I am assuming is why they are the final exercise in the course. I used the following photo for my visualisation, were I also placed importance on the white background(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qDSMxbkWAcM/TjwAJcGzUiI/AAAAAAAAOgk/VbmCVa2FrZs/s320/golden%2Brose-2.jpg). I closed my eyes to begin each concentration session.

During the early stages, I continually reset my mind with the image and shape of the golden rose, but it would quickly reduce back to an idea of the rose. I went through this cycle quite continuously throughout the 15 minute periods and found that image clarity and the duration which I held it for increased with practice.

After several days I realised that if I imagined that I was standing in front of the rose and I visualised opening my eyes, I saw a clearer shape, more detail and the golden colour of the rose upon mentally opening my eyes. I derived this idea from the ancient paintings/statues which show a person with a large eye on their forehead (inner eye, third eye). After opening my inner eye I would aim to hold the clearer image. When I lost the image I would repeat the visual eye opening technique and again endeavour to hold the image. I would continue in this cycle for the full 15 minutes.

When I began to see a relatively clear image for increasing durations of time, I noticed two physical effects:

1. My eyes would automatically open upon reaching a certain level of clarity in the visualisation and trying to close them was a hindrance. Having my eyes open was not a distraction as I was very focused on the image in my mind, meaning my surroundings had no relevance.

2. The clearer and longer I could hold the visualisations, the stronger the level of energy I felt near the base of my spine. At around 20 days into the course, the energy sensation became so strong that it was distracting me from the visualisation. It took about a week to adjust to the sensations of the energy before my visualisation again improved further in clarity and duration.

After time I changed the object which I was visualising to the peace symbol (in its correct orientation), hoping to improve my concentration and the peacefulness of my nature simultaneously. :-)

Wishful Dreaming:

It is in line with the saying, your thoughts become your reality.

From my understanding, wishful dreaming will help you to realise your chosen dream in reality. There are several variations of structured visualisation techniques used outside of Billys teachings, which are used for helping people to achieve goals, which they find otherwise difficult to achieve without the visualisations. These techniques are used as a means of magnifying willpower and motivation to assist in achieving the desired goal. Outside of Billys teaching, I have also read that the visualisation techniques impact upon the subconscious, moulding it so that it directs your everyday thoughts and actions to be more useful for achieving your wishful dreams in reality.

The concentration exercises increase our ability to create mental images/films in higher detail, to hold them for longer periods and control them to a greater extent. These improved visualisation-concentration techniques can then be applied in the wishful dream to give the mind a clearer and more direct understanding of the tasks and goals which we would like to achieve, hence improving our drive towards achieving these goals.

Other Points:

I chose to do the exercise at about 7am in the morning and experienced good progress. Better to do the exercises at a less-than-ideal time of day, rather than not at all.

I found that setting a quiet alarm worked well.

It should not matter having another person in the room, as long as their physical presence, movement and the noise they generate do not hinder your concentration.

I find motivation to continue practicing concentration exercises is difficult, but if you imagine yourself as a master of concentration during your 15 minutes of wishful dreaming, this will assist your drive to continue practicing daily concentration exercises :-)

Cheers,
Tom.
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2012 - 03:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It is not wise to begin practising meditation without substructure, which is concentration."
- Esirfloe

This is partially correct. The substructure you appear to be concerned with is the set of mental models that we use to make sense of our perceptions. In this case, concentration is the primary tool for focusing one's awareness, which is capable of simultaneously considering so many things, on only one subject (or object) of attention. This can be an external perception, or an inner impetus of the psyche, or even a more subtle awareness of the self. Whatever one meditates upon, the point of concentration is hone one's single minded focus. That said, the choice of the subject/object of one's meditational exercises is determined by one's own inclination. This is where understanding previously derived models helps. In other words, the substructure you referred to is a philosophical model, the clarity of which can be sharpened by studying the Spiritual Teaching.

Although there is a recipe for developing one's consciousness, there is no shortcut. We are who we are (not who we want to think we are); the best we can do is grow from here. When we overlay a clearer framework or model of consciousness upon our own awareness, it allows us to merely be who we actually are abit easier. The meditational progression is the recipe for self-development. It is merely a suggestion, but it is based upon watching how previous people have gone through the process of self-development. The psyche develops in a somewhat predictable manner as we progress from one self-determined definition of self to another, more honest one. Like any recipe, you are expected to modify it to suit your personal palate.

As to the definitions of spirit and self (Zohar...), well, this is part of the Spirit Teaching.

Regarding other people being present during one's meditational exercises. It depends upon how sensitive one is to the awarenesses of others, and how tolerant one is to having one's sense of self influenced by those around one. Personal space can be hard to come in some social situations. If you can put up with having people around while you seek the clarity of the self, it will make your life much easier.
Life
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 2259
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone recall or know the maximum number of people able to sit around the mid-size meditation pyramid. I don't know if it is sold any longer, but from corner to corner it measures about 120 mm. I know the smaller version measures about 70 mm from corner to corner.

Thanks
Scott

(Message edited by scott on May 06, 2012)
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Patm
Member

Post Number: 140
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

The 2012 catalog list 3 sizes but only specifies number of people for the smallest:

Table Pyramid(medium size, base plate 30 x 30 cm) NO mailing the table pyramids! 260 CHF

Travel-pyramid (small base plate 15 x 15 cm)
Weight 581 g, with delivery postal packet 210 CHF

Mini-pyramid in a wooden box size 4 x 4 x 6.5 cm) copper pyramid with a glued agate; coverage for 2 people:
Worldwide, big wooden box 7 x 7 cm x 9.5;
Weight 320 g including wooden box with shipping postal packet 150 CHF

-PatM

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