| Author | Message | ||
    Gargindia Member Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2013 |
Dear Jacob and Michael, I have studied some of FIGU material and I am going through the rest. As regards soul and spirit etc., this is terminology. Things can be difficult to express in English language. I accept two states of soul - one with covering of what we call 'maya' or illusion, and other state when this covering is removed and the soul becomes pure. Michael says that teaching of 'karma' is false. Why is it so? What is 'cause and effect' then? My intention is not to question but to clarify. | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 301 Registered: 09-2011 |
In more poetic instances, I prefer to use the word 'soul' because it's somewhat vague. The word 'spirit' has a specific meaning in terms of the Teaching, so I prefer to not use that word here unless I mean specifically mean to. Life | ||
Kenny Member Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2011 |
I remember watching a video clip where Billy specifically said, that there is no such thing as a "soul", and therefore I also do not think that we should use that term. The same problem is about the peace sign that Billy said must be turned upward and not downward as we earthlings have done since 1958 or maybe even earlier. Some people say that Billy was wrong about it, because the sign was not meant as peace, but more for the two letters, ND = Nuclear Disarmament. They might be right, however I never doubt for a second that the signs for N and D were chosen by coincidence. I really believe that the bafath or some evil forces created the signs for N and D and had a purpose for it long before we started creating our symbol for ‘peace’. Even if we never intended to use that symbol as a war symbol, it still would have an effect on our spiritual comprehension. Gargindia: 'Cause and effect' is not equal to 'karma'. Bad karma is cause by bad deeds, and good karma is caused by good deed. However, bad cause does not have to lead to bad effect. Just take the example of removing the bafath from Earth. The action is bad, because it is against their free will. But, the effect of it will probably be better for all of us. The definition of 'karma' is a form of revenge for what being done. Therefore it is not the same as 'cause and effect', even though many people have tried to rephrase it to “cause and effect”. They just forgot to mention that only bad cause leads to bad effects according to ‘karma’. /Kenny | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2013 |
Kenny, It is King's job to remove evil people from the society. So removal of Bafath from Earth falls under the responsibility of Earth's king. Earth's king has failed in his duty (rather allied with Bafath). Plejarens as guardians of Earth(as they claim) have removed the Bafath which is a good deed (karma) for Plejaren. Your explanation about 'karma' is not correct. This explanation does not stem from Vedic teaching. My study of 'cause and effect' as told by Plejaren corresponds to Vedic concept of 'karma'. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2013 |
Veda does not have any term 'soul' or 'spirit'. These are English words. Vedic term is 'atma'. I shall post the nature and qualities of 'atma' and then you can check if it corresponds to Plejaren's teaching or not. | ||
Kenny Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2011 |
Gargindia I think you have studied a revised version of karma. All those religious people I have known so far cannot have been wrong about their beliefs. Their definition is still the same as I explained earlier. Karma is a revenge/reward system that rebounces. It relates to human actions only and is very limited. Cause and effect has unlimited range and purpose. It relates to the whole universe and everything in it. It is more scientific and can also be applied to “dead matter”. If I go out in the sun and get my skin sun burned. This can be explained with the principle of cause and effect. How will you explain it with karma? Forcing somebody to do something against their free will cannot be a good deed. That is why the P have hesitated doing anything until now. They only removed the bafath because the bafath explicitly interfered with their very important mission. To me a king is a leader and not a ruler. If the P starts ruling, then they will not be different from the B. From your post, it seems that you want a king to rule. /Kenny | ||
Michaelhelfert Member Post Number: 305 Registered: 09-2011 |
The term 'spirit' corresponds to 'atma'. Life | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 392 Registered: 12-2009 |
What can be said about karma, at least how the eastern religions have mangled the information is that each spirit-form and consciousness when born, is free from previous guilt and wrongdoings of previous lifetimes. A "clean slate" if you will. The only thing possible is the ability to draw on negative impulses from previous neg. personalities, and positive impulses from previous pos. personalities. Fluidal forces can and does also play a role here, and negative thoughts that in turn correlate to negative actions and false ways of thinking and actions need to be neutralized by neutral positive thoughts and positive deeds. It is important to hone and nurture positive character traits such as virtues and high values in each lifetime. Negative thoughts (conscious or unconscious) can also be the result of an afflicted Psyche, for more info see Billy's might of thoughts book. Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 23 Registered: 05-2013 |
Kenny - my interpretation of 'karma' is correct. It does not matter what you know and who taught you. Unfortunately Billy went to the wrong place and wrong person when he visited India. The people he met had no knowledge of Veda. Corey - Veda cannot be proven wrong. Only the persons who misrepresent can be proven wrong. Veda is the source of knowledge and human laws for all humans everywhere in the Creation. This fact cannot be opposed by anybody. | ||
Kenny Member Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2011 |
I am sure the original Vedas have a lot of facts in there. It is considered the oldest text here on Earth. I just do not understand why "the new translation" revised the old one just recently? 20 years ago when I started learning about the Vedas and Hinduism, karma had another meaning. I do not want to give any hints here. Let us hope that "the new translation" will enlighten everyone in Hinduism. Also, the P. must revise their statement about Earth's religion too. Last time they said anything about religion, Buddhism was considered the most correct religion on Earth, even though not perfect. | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 393 Registered: 12-2009 |
Gargindia, It makes no sense to argue over the false teaching of karma. Billy has said some years back straight out that the Vedics were/are corrupted (his words not mine). Of course there might be a few similarities here and there among the Sanskrit texts, the only way to get the "full" un-distorted version of the Creational laws and recommendations is to study Billy's teaching and for most of it you need to read German. It is simply quite different from anything else on Earth and is timeless. Just because you studied the Veda does not mean you can classify your knowledge as creational. On my quest for the truth I studied native american knowledge (live close to a reservation, even married a native american) and there may be some similarities about it, other parts are simply false. Humans cannot reincarnate as animals and vice versa is an example. There was some similarities like polygamy, living in harmony with nature, and banishing criminals, but little about consciousness-based evolution or positive scientific development, etc. After my quest for the truth where I studied many different things, I found Billy's teaching and it has taken years of intense study of the German originals for me to say I have a small, accurate understanding of what is creational. True, I could read it then know it like a book-worm, but I mean understand it as a living pulsing part of me, which means one is living the teaching and the way of absolute fulifillment and evolution, and I still have so much to learn. If India was close to the truth they wouldn't burn the bodies of their dead (Hindu mandates cremation/antim-sanskara). No society at large on Earth is close to the truth. Almost all earth societies and countries seriously violate the predetermined laws and recommendations of Creation today irregardless of past history and with varying degrees of violations. It is only small numbers of people that try to fulfill the laws and recommendations of Creation, most of the small % do it by studying Billy's teaching. Also no earth religion is close to the truth including Hindu religions. Advanced space peoples don't spread the Veda out in space, they spread the Geisteslehre. Now because of Billy, it is simply earth's turn (w/o missionizing or prostelization). It will take 800 years before it's "mission accomplished". The spreading of the Geisteslehre among space peoples is a process that was begun by Nokomdemion and his people, and the process is already millions and billions of years old. Now because your here, if you stick around and learn instead of teach the Veda, you could study the truth. This is pretty much all I'm going to say about the matter. Ask Billy if you don't believe me about the 100% accuracy of the Veda in comparison to his teachings... Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 59 Registered: 02-2013 |
Hello, Gargindia, I wonder why you are here on this forum when you are so convinced about ‘being right’ and everyone else who disagrees with you (including Billy) is wrong. First of all, I don’t understand why you mention Veda and not ‘Veda’s’, since there is not just one Veda, but 4 of them, Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda, Yajur-Veda and the Atharva-Veda, which all form the basis of the Upanishads. There are also sub-veda’s. Just the word Veda means knowledge / knowing. The Vedas are mainly divided into two parts: karma-kanda and Jnana-kanda. Samhitas, Brahmanas, and Aranyakas form the Karma portion, while Upanishads form the knowledge portion of Vedas. As you likely know the Veda’s stem from the Arian people, around 1,500 BC, the term Arian is basically the name for Iranian and Afghan people and later on the so-called North-Indian people. (people who believe they are part of the Arian race while they are born in Western-Europe, the North-American continent, live in a lie, the so-called white race and especially the ones in North-west Europe, USA-Canada are basically descendants of Hyper-boreans) You are following fanatically a false teaching because with your own words you say this: “Kenny - my interpretation of 'karma' is correct. It does not matter what you know and who taught you.” This only shows me, and everyone who reads your words that you are close-minded and have a preconceived opinion about what is right or wrong, this is a trait very common in people who have fanatical (cult)-religious beliefs which are as sturdy as quicksand and never can be proven in logic. This is an understandable, but not excusable trait of people. Often their beliefs form a corner stone of their lives and existence and when people or simply the truth undermines their belief, they will fanatically defend it at all costs, or simply ignore logical arguments. I will post a quote from Arahat Athersata about this (German): “Ein Mensch der Wahrheit kennt keine Vorurteile, denn eine vorgefasste Meinung hindert das Suchen und Finden und die Ehrlichkeit.” (source: The book Arahat Athersata page 11) Karma when it’s explained correctly according to the Geisteslehre is nothing more then cause and effect in the acute life, when a personality (person) is the source (cause) and also the recipient (the effect) of his/her thinking/acting/feeling. When a person dies, the source (cause) and also the recipient (the effect) dies, so cause and effect of one personality does not transfer in anyway to the next personality, since that new personality has nothing to do with the old one. (http://www.figu.org/ch/book/export/html/2797) If karma, explained in the Hindu-false teaching would be true and karma would work on all lives, we would never be able to overcome the overwhelming amount of mistakes we inevitably make during all our lives, evolution would be totally impossible, in fact, the whole of BEING would be impossible and just an endless stagnation in non-existence would be ‘reality’. Your free to do with my words what you want, you can accept or deny them, its up to you. Salome, Jacob As for me, all I know is that I know nothing. ~ Socrates | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 2394 Registered: 12-1999 |
Special Bulletin 33 regarding Vedas: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Special_Bulletin_33 | ||
Ferbon Member Post Number: 290 Registered: 05-2012 |
Corey The time you mentioned (about 800 years) is to reach certain basic required understanding and perception of the Earth's population. Religious christian/vedic/etc. nonsense in this or that form is mentioned by Jmmanuel to extend their presence by duration of more than thousand years from now until people realize the truth and turn to creational laws and recommendations. It would be quite ok if in 800 years half of the people started to appreciate nature, each other, recognized their spirit and stopped chasing money. Until then we better have our protective "reason screens" and "reality sensors" on and chill with Lenon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs Salome | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2013 |
Corey: I think we should speak possibly through voice chat. Veda asks the dead body to be committed to fire - to destroy sickness (germs) present in the body at the time of death. Human body has absolutely no use after the 'spirit' or 'atma' leaves the body. Another reason is to break the attachment of near and dear ones to the dead person's body. Vedic people are very strictly against idol worship of any kind. Embalming and display of dead body is strictly prohibited in Veda. The body must be committed to fire within one day of death. I do not know what 'space people' spread in terms of religions and philosophy, but I know for sure that material progress does not necessarily bring spiritual progress. The fact is that spiritually advanced people are mostly detached from material world due to the recognition that wealth brings moral corruption. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2013 |
Jacob: You should study Veda deeply from correct experts. As I know about Veda only and not Plejaren views (as you wrote) and I am obstinate about my view, I can say the same for you that you are obstinate about what Billy says. The four Veda books that you quote are called 'Sanhita' and are divided as a convenience. The entire body is called Veda only. The tradition is to transfer Veda verbally from teacher to student. Veda were taught this way for about two billion years on earth (by direct transfer from teacher to student verbally) and people had the capacity to remember the entire Veda due to their superior intelligence. The name of people is 'Arya' and not 'Arien'. 'Arya' means noble. This nobility was acquired by superior physical features and intellect of people. 'karma' is a very big topic and we can discuss this only face to face. As I said elsewhere, we are ready for a face to face discussion. We shall prove what we say to Plejarens. We do not hide behind words. | ||
Skyrim Member Post Number: 95 Registered: 06-2012 |
"This only shows me, and everyone who reads your words that you are close-minded and have a preconceived opinion about what is right or wrong, this is a trait very common in people who have fanatical (cult)-religious beliefs which are as sturdy as quicksand and never can be proven in logic. This is an understandable, but not excusable trait of people. Often their beliefs form a corner stone of their lives and existence and when people or simply the truth undermines their belief, they will fanatically defend it at all costs, or simply ignore logical arguments." I agree and well said Jacob! I don't think Gargindia knows yet who Billy really is (the prophet) or else he/she would have stopped this Veda discussion after reading what Billy said in Special Bulletin 33 regarding Vedas: http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Special_Bulletin_33 | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 61 Registered: 02-2013 |
Hello Gargindia, Your own obstinate behavior is the cause that there is no discussion possible with you. This remark stems from you: "Kenny - my interpretation of 'karma' is correct. It does not matter what you know and who taught you.” says it all, if the Veda's would be true, then it would be paradise in all countries who's majority of people would follow these 'teachings'. The fact that this is not the case does not speak well for the Vedas/Hinduism. One question: How is it possible that Veda was taught on Earth 2 billion years ago (your words), when there was not even human life on this planet? Billion = Milliard = 1,000,000,000 if I understand you correctly. Going on common Earth human scientific knowledge, 2 Billion years ago, on Earth, during the Proterozoic era, the formation of complex cells (eukaryotes) just started, your logical is faulty, Earth humans did not exist then. If Earth-humans did not exist, how can there be students and teachers of this false-teaching ? I have studied the basics of most cult-religions to understand their false-teaching and harness myself against their illogic, I have no desire to study more then what I know about them. The horrors committed by all cult-religions including Hinduism (like burning of widows) is self-evident. The fact that you do not counter my words and those of others with logical verifiable proof shows that you are arguments are simply based on a fanatical belief system. There is no hiding behind words, come with logical arguments and verifiable proof why you are correct and the rest is wrong. Salome, Jacob As for me, all I know is that I know nothing. ~ Socrates | ||
Acriasis Member Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2012 |
The knowledge of the truth and the path of true life does not involve anyone to behave in such a way as to be looked upon as knowing more than another for each and every life form is a part of the same ever- present infinitely beautiful Creational existence. Those that try to focus on who knows more than another have missed the point of the knowledge learned, and that is to find the knowledge of the truth within it as to apply this knowledge to the daily life so that a change in lifestyle and communication with others is present, that one may begin to do the most good for his/her fellow man/woman. it is not about who will know what is correct for there is only one correct, one right, one evolutive spiritual enlightened existence, and this is what we a drawn to, what sort of calls to us to find that true knowledge, that it may be felt as right as a whole rather than simply only known as truth. Perhaps this life shall be profound in knowledge and ability, to those that seek and apply and are helpful to others in finding the secret path to true life. Saalome, Marcus __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ For what do I know... there is only life and truth and infinite creational ability. Wisdom can be learned if truth follows. | ||
Ramirez Member Post Number: 852 Registered: 06-2008 |
Hi Gargindia, Concerning this: "The tradition is to transfer Veda verbally from teacher to student. Veda were taught this way for about two billion years on earth (by direct transfer from teacher to student verbally) and people had the capacity to remember the entire Veda due to their superior intelligence." If they had sufficient intelligence then it makes more sense to have written down the information rather than rely on verbal means which off course must include faulty and incomplete memories plus occasionally personality defects which tend to cause distortions whilst retelling ..... stories. At which point did accuracy begin to decline and whose version of the story exists in today's books ? ..... it can only be one persons unless a group agreed and co-authored a version which all sounds somewhat questionable and subject to errors whether accidental or deliberate. Just like with Mohammad's teachings written 21 years after his death ..... how accurate are they as a result ? Books make more sense. If Sai Baba is anything to go by regarding nobility and intelligence among gurus ..... we have a problem Houston. Cheers. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 2395 Registered: 12-1999 |
I think everyone has had their say, can we get back to the topic-Thanks | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 520 Registered: 08-2010 |
I have heard the word "Karma" used by a variety of people in many situations. Both jokingly and seriously. Mostly when people have felt that they had been wronged by someone, then learn that something bad has happened to the offending person they then always exclaimed; "karma"! It had also been explained to me once that karma was a punishment of deeds from a previous life. There is a school here which teaches that karma causes an event in ones life that often manifests as a "payback" for past life actions/deeds. I cannot help but see the illogical and primitiveness and base desires for retaliation that surfaces in the human mind. Such is far from even fundamental spiritual principles. "Karma" in all its uses and definitions are evil and distancing from the spiritual. Retrospection alone reveals a natural spiritual principle that we can and often learn from our mistakes. None of us here are the same person we were 6 months or a year ago. Many of us here have acts and deeds, even thoughts that we now wish we never had committed. This is remorse and regret; evolution of the consciousness. Evolution of our inner nature, our true inner selves. A sincere apology and desires and attempts to right a wrong is true repentance. Anyone who fails to recognize a person's repentance and is unable to forgive and exercise the knowledge of wisdom is lost, alone and inflicting a great illness on themselves. Karma is not based on spirituality. Spirituality, the law of love, is the queen of all virtues. Salome, Eddie | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 32 Registered: 05-2013 |
Eddiemartin wrote: "Mostly when people have felt that they had been wronged by someone, then learn that something bad has happened to the offending person they then always exclaimed; "karma"!" This is a difficult subject. Humans should not worry about 'karma' but worry about what is correct action as per Creator's laws. Lord Shri Krishna says in Geeta 'karmanye vadhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachana' meaning 'Your right is to act/work not desire for results'. How karma works is the realm of experts, not a common man. "It had also been explained to me once that karma was a punishment of deeds from a previous life. There is a school here which teaches that karma causes an event in ones life that often manifests as a "payback" for past life actions/deeds." People often say things out of ignorance. The correct view can be known only from an expert. "I cannot help but see the illogical and primitiveness and base desires for retaliation that surfaces in the human mind. Such is far from even fundamental spiritual principles. "Karma" in all its uses and definitions are evil and distancing from the spiritual." The desire for revenge is not karma. Karma does not distance you from the spiritual. The objective of teaching principles of karma is to put fear of wrong actions into the student. It is to tell the student that any wrong action (against Creator's laws) will have an equally bad result for the actor. "Retrospection alone reveals a natural spiritual principle that we can and often learn from our mistakes. None of us here are the same person we were 6 months or a year ago. " The process of learning and introspection must go on throughout life. Veda actively encourages learning and meditation and calls these 'tapasya'. "Many of us here have acts and deeds, even thoughts that we now wish we never had committed. This is remorse and regret; evolution of the consciousness. Evolution of our inner nature, our true inner selves. A sincere apology and desires and attempts to right a wrong is true repentance." No human is perfect. All have done many deeds in this life and previous one against Creator's laws knowingly and unknowingly. The bad 'karma' is removed by 'tapasya' or 'tapashcharya'. "Anyone who fails to recognize a person's repentance and is unable to forgive and exercise the knowledge of wisdom is lost, alone and inflicting a great illness on themselves." I am sorry but Vedic view is that God (Creator) justice is firm and same for all souls. So goods points have to be earned through good deeds. There is no forgiveness. "Karma is not based on spirituality. Spirituality, the law of love, is the queen of all virtues." Your view of 'karma' is mostly out of ignorance. This view is coming from confused Hindus who have fallen prey to thousands of sects. I shall post some material on this website once I see that people are more receptive. For now I shall limit myself to discussion. |
