| Author | Message | ||
    Badr Moderator Post Number: 541 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Garginda, I only approved one of your posts that relates to the topic, Scott was clear when he asked everyone to get back to the topic. You are welcome to post the others under another appropriate topic. | ||
Melissa Member Post Number: 86 Registered: 01-2012 |
Hi Garginda, I encourage you to read the text from http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_(1998)#Regarding_the_topic_of_reincarnation.2C_mention_is_often_made_of_.22Karma..22_Just_what_is_.22Karma.22.3F , which contains information on the subject of Karma, etc, as provided by Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM). -Melissa | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 523 Registered: 08-2010 |
Gargindia, I would like to address some of the Veda doctrines, beliefs and teachings you outlined. "Humans should not worry about 'karma' but worry about what is correct action as per Creator's laws." -What evidence does the Veda offer of this deity? "Your right is to act/work not desire for results'." -This is not logical. Anyone who has had success in any aspect of life can see the fallacy in this doctrine. "How karma works is the realm of experts, not a common man." "The correct view can be known only from an expert." -What is karma, according to your studies of the Veda? I would like to see how it differs from what I have learned is taught what karma is. The Veda religion appears to make a distinction between human beings; exalting one while debasing another, thus making another's opinion or learning as worthless and unimportant. Consider the following spiritual principles from Billy's Desiderata. > Allow other people to freely express their opinions, for they are allotted the same rights as you. > Listen to others, to the bright and intellectual individuals, and also to the obtuse, the foolish and those who lack learning, for they, too, have opinions and statements to offer. "The objective of teaching principles of karma is to put fear of wrong actions into the student." -Mm, "fear based" deeds are counter productive to spirituality. This causes degeneration and the devolution of the inner essence, the spiritual nature of a true human being. It cultivates victimization and vindictiveness and desire for justification of retaliation and inflicting of harm unto another person; either consciously or subconsciously. "The process of learning and introspection must go on throughout life. Veda actively encourages learning and meditation and calls these 'tapasya'." "No human is perfect. All have done many deeds in this life and previous one against Creator's laws knowingly and unknowingly. The bad 'karma' is removed by 'tapasya' or 'tapashcharya'." -You do note the conflicting inconsistency in the above doctrine? This is where one recognizes where a spiritual principle has been adulterated by religiosity. The only correct principle is that indeed through meditation and learning (recognition) do we evolve and become a better human being and a positive example and influence on humanity. "I am sorry but Vedic view is that God (Creator) justice is firm and same for all souls. So good points have to be earned through good deeds. There is no forgiveness." -So are we to understand that the god of the Veda doctrines does not endorse a person forgiving themselves or another? Then the god of the Veda religion did not understand (the latest findings on) how thoughts influence our genetics. Google the field of study recognized and called Personology (one example) for the findings. Salome, Eddie Desiderata http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Desiderata_%28Desirable_and_Vital_Items%29 | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 400 Registered: 12-2009 |
Melissa, Thanks for digging up the link. Billy's words "Not only would it be unjust but it would actually be contrary to the Creational laws if elements from a former life were to be carried over into the current one" resonated to me when I read it. I don't think Garginida is here to learn, he/she is here to missionize the cult-religion Veda complete with "creator" principles to prove how "knowledgeable" he/she is, and how "unknowledgeable" the rest of us are. That's all. In Billy's symbols book I noticed there is no symbol for karma, but there is one for modesty and it's polar opposite immodesty, as well as arrogance, submission/subservience, and irrational teaching. There is one for cause and effect though that is really interesting, have you studied it? Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2013 |
Corey wrote: "I don't think Garginida is here to learn, he/she is here to missionize the cult-religion Veda complete with "creator" principles to prove how "knowledgeable" he/she is, and how "unknowledgeable" the rest of us are. That's all." It is not like that. I like many of the elements in Plejaren's thinking. I like you guys as you are trying to learn. As I said earlier, you meet with many surprises when you are on a journey. The discovery of truth is a very long journey. Sometimes your entire world view changes when you learn new 'facts'. It has happened with me as well. My specific purpose is to correct the view of Veda as views expressed by Billy about Veda are not correct. I am not here to 'teach' you. | ||
Votan Member Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi Melissa There is nothing on your link. The laws of nature dictates to every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. Perhaps all this talk about Karma is exactly that. Please re-post. Thanks joe | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2013 |
Badr wrote: "Hi Garginda, I only approved one of your posts that relates to the topic, Scott was clear when he asked everyone to get back to the topic. You are welcome to post the others under another appropriate topic." I was replying to posts aimed at me. The deleted posts are very much needed as is evident from next series of posts. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 35 Registered: 05-2013 |
Eddiemartin wrote: "What evidence does the Veda offer of this deity?" Did I talk about a 'deity'. What do you mean by a deity? Please clarify? "This is not logical. Anyone who has had success in any aspect of life can see the fallacy in this doctrine." Karma is a big topic. Reincarnation and laws of karma can not be easily understood. If you want to know, you can come and learn with us. I cannot contain such a vast topic in a post. "-What is karma, according to your studies of the Veda? I would like to see how it differs from what I have learned is taught what karma is. The Veda religion appears to make a distinction between human beings; exalting one while debasing another, thus making another's opinion or learning as worthless and unimportant." You are saying something out of ignorance. Please provide proof. "Consider the following spiritual principles from Billy's Desiderata. > Allow other people to freely express their opinions, for they are allotted the same rights as you. > Listen to others, to the bright and intellectual individuals, and also to the obtuse, the foolish and those who lack learning, for they, too, have opinions and statements to offer." Agree! "-Mm, "fear based" deeds are counter productive to spirituality. This causes degeneration and the devolution of the inner essence, the spiritual nature of a true human being. It cultivates victimization and vindictiveness and desire for justification of retaliation and inflicting of harm unto another person; either consciously or subconsciously." In your view, humans should freely engage in genocide, degeneration etc. and have no fear of consequences. I can see where it is going. "-You do note the conflicting inconsistency in the above doctrine? This is where one recognizes where a spiritual principle has been adulterated by religiosity. The only correct principle is that indeed through meditation and learning (recognition) do we evolve and become a better human being and a positive example and influence on humanity." Can you point out the inconsistency? "-So are we to understand that the god of the Veda doctrines does not endorse a person forgiving themselves or another? Then the god of the Veda religion did not understand (the latest findings on) how thoughts influence our genetics. Google the field of study recognized and called Personology (one example) for the findings." Sure you can kill somebody and forgive yourself. I understand where you are going. | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 62 Registered: 02-2013 |
Hello, When I read the conversations between Gargindia and several of the FIGU forum members then it becomes crystal clear that Corey is right about his assessment. Indeed Gargindia is busy to missionize his false-teaching/cult-religion on this FIGU forum, several attempts have been made to a logical interaction with exchange of arguments, but Gargindia seems to ignore those arguments or responds with cult-religious rhetoric, without providing a shred of proof or dodging with words like “need to talk to face to face”, or “only experts can tell you”, or “cant explain this shortly on this FIGU forum”, or things to that effect. In fact the laws and recommendations of the universal consciousness Creation can be understood by anyone with a healthy intellect and rationality. Karma or cause and effect are easily understood for every person when he or she wants to. The beauty of the spirit teaching is that it is open for anyone who truly seeks, finds, thinks and acts upon it. Its to each his/her own to engage in a further discussion, but in my opinion its just like Jmmanuel said in the Talmud, don’t throw pearls before the swine. This whole interaction can teach us two things: 1) what a cult-religion can do to a persons thinking, feeling and acting. 2.) To know when to walk away when attempts to reason prove to be an act of futility, there is no use reasoning with a cult-religious person, often their brain structures wont allow for logic to come through. From every situation a lesson can be learned, it’s a simple matter of cause and effect. Salome, Jacob As for me, all I know is that I know nothing. ~ Socrates | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 402 Registered: 12-2009 |
Does anyone else remember the guy that said he studied the Meier material for "years and years" and he said that the war-mongering Mitt Romney was the clear choice for US President? He even said Fox news was "fair and balanced". He eventually quit posting after kicking up the hornets nest. Recent events make me wonder if he ever took any of the feedback everyone gave him to heart or if he just relished in seeing the hornets fly. Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Melissa Member Post Number: 87 Registered: 01-2012 |
Hi Corey, The symbols available to me from the futureofmankind website are too small for me to really get a good look at them. Making them bigger only blurs the image more. Hi Joe(Votan) Another link for you... http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_(1998)#Regarding_the_topic_of_reincarnation.2C_mention_is_often_made_of_.22Karma..22_Just_what_is_.22Karma.22.3F or http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Interview_with_Billy_(1998) -Melissa | ||
Votan Member Post Number: 116 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi Melissa Still nothing on both pages. Thanks . Joe joe | ||
Corey Member Post Number: 403 Registered: 12-2009 |
Melissa, Maybe in this situation the hard copy of the book would be best. The cause and effect symbol is on page 503 and consists of two symmetrical symbols on a grid pattern surrounded by two circles and then four symmetrical symbols (holding the whole process in balance?) on the outside. It is really quite interesting and helps me conceptualize more about the law of cause and effect in conjunction with what Billy has written. Why study them? I once asked Billy if studying the symbols from the storage banks aided the programming of the next incarnation in faster evolution and said "no, they can be used learning to meditate or in meditation." Your not supposed to just study the positive ones though, but also the negative symbols. It's also a good way to build your German vocabulary as these words reappear in Billy's books. Salome Corey OM 32:2171 Die unschätzbarsten Schätze sind die Wahrheit, das Wissen, die Liebe und die Logik in Weisheit. The priceless treasures are the truth, the knowledge, the love and the logic in wisdom. | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 524 Registered: 08-2010 |
Gargindia, When you speak of the Veda teaching "Creator (God)". This is the deity I am asking you about. I thought my response was clear enough based on your statement. Therefore; "What evidence has this deity given of its existence?" So karma is a "big topic" and "reincarnation and laws of karma cannot be easily understood"? So you are believing in something you lack complete understanding in? The proof that the Veda religion "makes a distinction between human beings; exalting one while debasing another and thus making another's opinion or learning as worthless and unimportant" is based on your post comment. I'm confused about your following statement. It is completely unrelated to my response to your comment. Not only that, but you do realize the immaturity? Not to mention the implication that you are avoiding the fact that I am calling it as it is? Again I tell you. "Fear based deeds are counter productive to spirituality." The inconsistency is clear in my response. Read your statement and my reply. It is right there, clearly. "The only correct principle is that indeed through meditation and learning (recognition) do we evolve and become a better human being and a positive example and influence on humanity." The following again seems odd to me. Your Veda studies lack insights into forgiveness and its spiritual principle? Also, the sarcasm makes you out to be someone not to be taken seriously. Sarcasm makes the person look ignorant and lacking in knowledge and understanding. Also, your response (below) demonstrates you did not search confirmation of my statement. "Sure you can kill somebody and forgive yourself. I understand where you are going." I welcome mature discussion. If you lack this, then I will not respond to you. So please, let us keep this within the realm of adult conversation between serious students of their respective spiritual teaching and religiosity. There is nothing antagonistic from me. I only have serious discussions when it comes to spirituality or someones religiosity. Salome, Eddie | ||
Blake_p Member Post Number: 131 Registered: 07-2012 |
Corey, It's funny u mentioned that guy,I bet I could look back and see because I was back and forth with him around the election time because it was such non-sense,how can u be a part of the spiritual teaching and not see the truth about Romney, he used the Plejaren regulations to back up another post of his then said that they didn't know what they were talking about with Romney.And Fox News is just pure ludicrous delusion in my opinion, I'm not sure how they qualify as an information channel. Hello,owned by Rupert Murdock,enough said. | ||
Melissa Member Post Number: 88 Registered: 01-2012 |
Votan, Have you tried clearing your cookies? If all else fails, go to the futureofmankind site, and use the word 'karma' into the search while at the site. Concerning karma based after Vedic teachings, which may definitely contain part-truths and other forms of truth, etc., just as many other types of organised religion do, it is good to remember also the fact that depending upon which translator did the work and which process was used, would also determine the possible, or deliberate in-accuracies, as well as possible, or deliberate religious pre-cognisations and interpretations. I don't think that any amount of (I'm right - you're wrong) discussions would help any human discover internally, their own responsibility to build-up their own string of truth, hence creating their own web of reality. All webs are truly able to be perceived as a reality. Webs of lies and webs of truth are each a reality in itself to the weber and who must also be the one to direct the webs development by creating new strings of truth. Sometimes it's just a matter of finding that truth which resonates internally as truth, then after much contemplation, the new truth is fully realised and implemented into the web. Billy's teachings ring truthfully to me resulting because of my own internal realisations and efforts to learn and understand and to use what ever common sense and reason I have to help me understand any truth contained within. -Melissa | ||
Blue_room Member Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2010 |
Gargindia: You mentioned previously... "My specific purpose is to correct the view of Veda as views expressed by Billy about Veda are not correct." Question: Could you please point out precisely which "views expressed by Billy about Veda are not correct"? thnxs! | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 2764 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Guys.... Interesting discussion. Karma, is in many cases defined in False Teachings as: what you do now...you will get back in the next life time. Bad or good. Which is FALSE! So, they are trying to make Karma into a - Pre Determined Destiny - sort of aspect, which it is NOT. Billy, makes very clear, that this is NOT the case: Our next incarnation is NOT Pre Determined; and your next incarnation STILL has to be made, and will Evolve throughout its life time, till death. Our next incarnation, will start with a NEW Slate, and we may retrieve certain 'traits' from our Storage Banks, but, this does not per se mean we will acquire a Negative (or Positive) out-come, as is mentioned in the definition of the erroneous interpreted Karma; from the past life. Consequence - Cause and Effect, has been Falsely been interpreted into the/a False Karma definition, which is the result, here....alas! So, Karma is saying that our next incarnation is - Pre Determined -....which it is not! When you start with a NEW Stale....this is certainly NOT the case! NEW Personality, New Character...which will still Evolve whilst alive. Edward. | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 2767 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Gargindia.... I just wanted to add, that Jmmanuel wandered and teached in India, before he died. His teachings were in India, like-wise Altered and Distorted; so, it was NOT only the Judeo/Catholic/Christianity, I want to add, whom Distorted Jmmanuel's Teachings, of The Creation, etc. Thus, we have to take heed, that even much FALSE Teachings which were derived from Jmmanuel's Teachings, were Falsely interpreted and spread all over India. As was the case with the Meditation Method(s), which Billy later when he was 11 years old, brought it out...anew, with the help of the Plejarans. I just want to mention, this, due to, I noticed that your inputs, here... (perhaps,) have their origin...from those Falsely interpreted Teachings, which originate from India. There are still many Cult Religions in India, that have some extractions of Jmmanuel's Teachings, which they have woven into their False Cult Religions. Edward. | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2013 |
Dear EddieMartin, I could not see the comments last few days as I was away. I do not claim to be expert of Veda. There is an expert of Veda who has written many books on this subject, has answered thousands of questions, and is available for any discussion. It is OK if you doubt my capability which is natural as you guys are set in a certain thinking. I read all contact reports available on the Internet in English language. I found a remarkable similarity with Vedic teaching in many cases. This is the reason I started posting on your board. There is no intention to criticize you un-necessarily. I was pointing out that Billy did not meet a Veda expert when he was in India. So his knowledge of Vedic teaching may not be perfect. Hinduism at the time of Jmmanuel was not the Vedic religion. Vedic religion has not been practiced since around 1000 BC in India itself. This is the reason history is very important and we have to understand history carefully to understand the mistakes made. DEITY: Veda does not prescribe any deity or statues. Vedic God is an omnipresent invisible God devoid of any shape. Vedic God is universal intelligence, the creative matter that pervades the Universe. Vedic teaching is that the Universe is created by this intelligence in a certain shape and structure, and this is what we humans see all around. There are universal elements and laws of Physics because of this intelligent design. There are NO temples in Vedic religion. The concept of learning and meditation is key in Vedic religion. KARMA: It is not a question of what you and I believe in; but what is right and true. Humans are always looking for excuses. The defect in soul called "illusion" makes a human attach to worldly objects and yield to human relationships rather than stay true to the Creator's laws. It takes a lot of strength (primarily mental) to get over this defect of illusion ("maya" in Sanskrit). Veda's law of Karma is not a simple "action and reaction". The basic thing is to understand which actions are according to Creator's laws (virtue) and which actions are against Creator's laws (sin). The store of karmas is affected by actions of spirit ("atma"). Virtuous deeds reduce the effect of sins. This is how a soul evolves - by engaging in virtuous deeds. FORGIVENESS If God is just, (which is a quality of Vedic God), why would He forgive humans on a case by case basis? The basic tenet of justice is that law is same for everybody - rich or poor, powerful or powerless. This means that a spirit is awarded results of its actions, always. Virtuous deeds result in wealth, health, knowledge etc. Evil deeds result in poverty, sickness, ignorance etc. Laws of karma work without fail, but they are not always apparent, as there is a lag. This is by design, as God wants humans to maintain freedom of action and not get bogged down by effect of Karmas. If humans are allowed to forgive themselves, then where is God's justice? Everybody will then freely engage in sins with the knowledge that they can ask for 'forgiveness' from the God. | ||
Markcampbell Member Post Number: 834 Registered: 10-2008 |
When we come here to discuss knowledge about any specific topic , we agree that Billy's / Plejar's information would be the factual, correct due to their adherence to the older historical roots of said topic , due to the longevity of their culture , and their superior access to factual information , whether it would be time travel , cross referencing other ET cultures with ancient historical records . etc. usw. Any Earth culture will lose their libraries , teachers and passed down knowledge that only survives through nearly indiscernable writings , hieroglyphs , and word of mouth . In the same measure , if you were to go to an Indian website forum about the Vedas , then of course , you would agree with everyone else there that the knowledge is based on common recognition . All Earth religions are known to be cults , as discussed here on this forum . Therefore , arguments against the agreed format are completely irrational and illogical. I call the arguing parties 'dive bombers' , and anyone who engages with them are well meaning , but derailed through a false sense of hope that they will 'see the light'. They will not . | ||
Thomash New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2013 |
Dear GargIndia, these following things I say are not meant as malicious, only my point of view. Firstly you have assumed that Mr Meier has not studied with so-called Vedic experts. I would like to offer that, outside of the English material available, I have read much of the German material from Mr Meier and FIGU and there is every indication (sometimes stated directly) that BEAM has studied many, if not all, of the major philosophies and religions throughout a large part of the planet. Secondly, the expert(s) you speak of only have hearsay to go by and the source of Mr Meier's information is more directly from the source if you count his storage bank information and also from ETs that have time travel capability and who have actually seen the origins of our Earthly ideas develop. Lastly, I respect your right to think and believe or know what you want but this is a forum specifically for the discussion of the spirit teaching as it is taught by FIGU and Eduard Albert Meier. It is not a place to preach nor proselytize other ideas. If you have logical reasons that you think Mr Meier is incorrect, please stay and share them. Saying that an expert said this or that is not a logical argument though and should be abstained from in this venue. In the past, moderators would have deleted many of the posts you have currently submitted. For reasons that I think that I understand to a degree, you have been allowed to continue your postings. Now, I am asking you, personally, not as any authority, please, present your argument with facts and logic or go elsewhere to argue that BEAM is wrong. We should never force our ideas on others and that is exactly what you seem to want to do. I, and probably many others, welcome reasonable discussions, but these posts of late are just a vicious circle without merit. That said, I wish you nothing but health, happiness and a good life. Thomas Hall | ||
Gargindia Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2013 |
Markcampbell said: "When we come here to discuss knowledge about any specific topic , we agree that Billy's / Plejar's information would be the factual, correct due to their adherence to the older historical roots of said topic , due to the longevity of their culture , and their superior access to factual information" The topic of ETs and their interaction with earth people is such a mysterious topic. It is good that you have firsthand information so you can believe. Other people who do not have firsthand information will go by rationality. |
