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Archive through July 24, 2013

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » Misc. Discussions on The Spiritual (Creation-energy) Teaching » Archive through July 24, 2013 « Previous Next »

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Mahigitam
Member

Post Number: 552
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 12:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Should it not be: There are two central consciousness - Material/Physical & Spiritual(?)."

Thanks Edward for correcting. We shall wait for Jacob to quote Meier's teaching.

Also i would like to talk about the enlightenment process. In some schools of Indian philosophy, it is being said that the path to enlightenment is to realise that the subject that has mistakenly and selfishly identified itself as in individual is identical to the Universal Consciousness. Freedom of rebirth, these schools of thought say, is just to realise it. The authentic identity, they say, is already present as the constant and undeniable self-awareness that is in the background of all experiences, but it must be re-cognized and reflected upon as the ultimate conscious principle manifesting itself as all limited subjects, acts & objects of experience.

In Meier's teaching, afaik, it is being said that what we on earth assume as enlightenment is just OCB(Overall consciousness block)-enlightenment but not spiritual enlightenment. (Wondering whether the stages from High Council to Petale to merging with Creation is regarded as spiritual enlightenment, since there was no material consciousness present in those spheres of existence!. I am guessing that spiritual consciousness would continue to exist until it merges with Creation.)

For the sake of discussion here, we will assume that both Meier & these indian philosophers are talking about the same enlightenment(liberation from body to spirit like that of High Council stage). Meier says that we need to grow in wisdom. Indian Philosophers say that enlightenment comes only when we realise that what we consider as subjects(personal identities), objects and 'experiences of subjects' are just a part of Universal consciousness which is the true identity. I would like to know, if Meier's 'EVOLUTION OF WISDOM' princiople is the same as the above philosophers teaching. Is the realization of true self(universal consciousness) & growing wisdom imply the same ?
Or is there more to Meier's 'Wisdom' principle than just realization that you true-self is the same as Universal consciousness ?
If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere - Frank A. Clark
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Jacob
Member

Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 03:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Higher Self

It is meant the inner consciousness, the higher self, the material inner consciousness, which knows all consciousness-related and spiritual facts and truths.

For example: The intuitive ability is an expression of the inner self, the higher self.

The human possesses seven senses:

1. Smell
2. Touch
3. Seeing
4. Hearing
5. Tasting
6. Feeling (with the psyche)
7. Reception (with the consciousness / pineal gland)

In the human being, the psychological reality exceeds by far the material reality, even when the material reality which is perceived with the five material senses.

Through the spirit it would be possible that the all-universal, all-present creational-energy through the Higher Self, through the Psyche in the material consciousness and also in the personality would express itself. The human would be incredibly strong and powerful, in fulfillment of the natural-creative laws and recommendations..

The Psyche works like an antenna, it has the capability to receive impulses from inside (Empfindungen from the Gemüt) and its capable of receive impulses from other peoples psyche, but also of those of animals, etc. The Psyche is capable of sending feelings and impulses as well.

The higher self is not a separate self of the human, its an integral part of the human being, if the human would train his ability to receive with the pineal gland and receive the impulses from the fine-material reality and super-fine-material reality, then his perception and development of his personality and Ego would be radically different, his world would encompass the material, consciousness-related, psychological and at a much later stage in his evolution: the spiritual.

It is very well possible for the human being to develop his ability to detect the fine-material reality by means of his pineal gland through his higher self, it would provide him with a wealth of developmental opportunities.
The super-fine-material reality, the defacto spiritual reality will stay for a long time out of reach due to his lowly consciousness-related development, but for now, the possibility to develop the fine-material perception provides for enough evolutionary opportunities.

Sources: Einführung in die Meditation; pages 40-49, Leserfragen on the FIGU website, Geisteslehre Lehrbrief 11
Salome,
Jacob

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
~ Socrates
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Ferbon
Member

Post Number: 270
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mahigitam

If you quote Meier to say that we should "grow in wisdom", then inventing "evolution of wisdom" and "wisdom principle" probably only complicates your thinking processes.
As we have learned from Meier - wisdom comes from experience and practical application of knowledge so it should have little to do with "realization" by itself of any kind which btw sounds like clever excuse to have others do somebodies part because that person is currently "realizing" and can't be bothered.
From relations of others who visited SSSC we can find out that campers or visitors are often asked to participate in daily work at the Center etc. This of course has symbiotic advantages and helps with realization through work. Conclusively the simplest way to gain wisdom is to work and get organized to do so. So it seems.
Thus understanding of this simplest of principles may actually be overwhelmingly more productive in the process of so called "enlightenment" which should be used more in the context of self-awareness (I think) rather than wisdom.

Salome
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Earthling
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Post Number: 697
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mahitigam,

maybe I'm oversimplifying, but the conventional wisdom of traditional Indian so-called 'enlightenment' seems to be that at some point, poof, one is enlightened (like the story of Buddha sitting under a tree), and then enlightened for good, that the work is done & one now lives a constant state of bliss, enlightenment, liberation, freedom, moksha, whatever you want to call it.

As opposed to Billy, who says that the work is never done .. you can't sit on your laurels, like a rich man who is now rich and can sit on his butt, live off the sweat of others, his investments, interest, dividends and buy one pleasure after the next, unendingly. Therefore to enlighten means to remove the darkness, constantly. Once you remove the darkness or ignorance, through uncovering knowledge which transforms into wisdom, then that leads ever higher to more and more knowledge/wisdom, and that process never stops, even for the 40-60 million years it takes for the human to evolve to a 1/2 spiritual 1/2 material state. Billy says it is impossible to do it all in one lifetime as opposed to what seems implied in the so-called eastern version of enlightenment.


This guy says there is no such thing as enlightenment at all.
http://www.well.com/~jct/mystiq1.htm

"People call me an 'enlightened man' -- I detest that term -- they can't find any other word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I've searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not doesn't arise. I don't give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God. "
Salome,
Bruce
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Piyali
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Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2012
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Bruce,

thank you so much for this link on UG. I have shared the link on my FB page. Very interesting and the quote makes sense. It is true, that the removal of ignorance, gaining of wisdom is a continuous process, for the depth of knowledge has no end. Thank you again.
Salome with Love ~
Piyali
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Mahigitam
Member

Post Number: 555
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2013 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jacob, your response does not adequately explain the questions i raised in my previous post numbers 548 & 551. So kindly go through those once again.
From the below link, i find the following:http://theyfly.com/I_Always_Remain_Relaxed.htm

Self:
1 - exists and not just a theoretical construct
2 - certain impulses/impulsations in a specific frequency range define the self
3 - types of self -> inner self, outer self & Creative self(sprit-form)
4 - 'human-being-energy-impulsation-power', set up by Creation
5 - entire mental-block (material-consciousness, thoughts, feelings and psyche), the individuality-block (Ego/'I', personality, character and memory), the subconsciousness-block (material subconsciousness including the memory) and the respective unconscious-forms belong to it, but the self extends into our very cells

How are inner, outer and creative self differ ? Where is the red line between them ?
Is self the same as "I"/EGO ?
If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere - Frank A. Clark
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Skyrim
Member

Post Number: 89
Registered: 06-2012
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I once saw on this forum a mind chart according to Meier's spirit teachings but I've been unable to locate it again. Anyone know where it is?

phil
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Jacob
Member

Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello, Mahigitam,

Allow me a couple of days to come up with a comprehensive answer to your questions.
This is an interesting topic and deserves a good explanation (to the best of my ability)
Salome,
Jacob

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
~ Socrates
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Ferbon
Member

Post Number: 293
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 03:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael

Can questions regarding Spirit Teaching still be submitted for the current movie project or did the time come and gone for such?

Salome
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Michael_horn
Member

Post Number: 672
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 07:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

> Send it and we'll try to submit it.
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Newinitiation
Member

Post Number: 737
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Celesco

It appeared to me by your written words that you had a vested interest on the topic of homosexuality so I had asked this particular question that's all.

I hope you aren't offended by it.

For me at least it matters not one iota whether another human being is black, white, straight, homosexual, short, fat, ugly, beautiful, tall, skinny, hairy, bold, autistic, down syndromed, wheelchair bound, divorced, mentally retarded, homeless, dumb, smart, a garbage collector, etc.

At some point in our lives we do realise just how fickle outward appearances are which necessitate us seeing past the materialistic illusions and actually get at the important core that truly matters.

I agree with what you have intelligently written Celesco but I don't think the hardcore religionists, bigots, the crude, the degenerates, the racists, the blockheads, the materialists, and whatnot will ever understand your reasoning and see past their prejudices and discriminatory paradigm.

As I heard somewhere, 'progress is measured in graves', this could also apply to people who are a product of the influence of the current degenerate society who are mired in the thickets of limitations that it imposes which they help to sustain as is by reflecting it's degenerate values, norms, prejudices, discrimination and so on and the need for them to die out so that a little progress in small increments can be made by the next generation of people and so on if there ever is to be true progress.

There exist to an extreme degree still in this society this undercurrent of fag busting, calling out of queers, hostilities aimed at their different orientation, violence, discomfort, hatred, name calling, and so on against homosexual people and certain ingenuine sympathies leveled by people and this disgusting insincerity is so pervasive because the prejudicial attitude is the basis of these false sympathies that are given in contrivances.

So our humanity has a long way to go before these degenerations are extirpated altogether.


What I really don't get is the superior attitudes that people carry within themselves who have the gall and the temerity to stand above the position of another human being as if they are perfect and met out their own version of morality by discriminating against homosexuality and homosexual people.

regards
Matt

(Message edited by indi on July 19, 2013)
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Celesco
Member

Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After reading a post by another forum member, I have been reminded that I am not grasping the deep truth contained in the Spiritual Teachings because I do not understand the original German text. While I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to express my thoughts with you all, and to contemplate yours in turn, truly my words here are more of an exercise in self-grandiosity and know-it-all-ism because it is difficult to contemplate the words of my fellow forum members without knowing the deep, core truth.

With that being said, I will not return to the forum until I have learned to understand German.

Salome, friends.
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Celesco
Member

Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your words merit contemplation, Matt.

It is true that, in my naivety and youth, I typically lean on the side of favouring those who would make observations about the homosexual lifestyle - even when the core of their belief system is mired in false-religious teachings.

I do not suppose that the groups, which you mentioned, will see past their discriminatory paradigm; however, can it not be said accurately that there exits the potential for Creational thought in all peoples, regardless of their delusional state, because the potential for Creational thought exists at our true core and, therefore, can pervade through all subconscious observation - even when it is distorted by the consciousness and parts of the subconscious, which are distorted by fabrications? Therefore, can it not further be reasoned that, while their statements are outwardly mired in false-religious teachings, at the core of their observation they grasp some iota of truth, which is merely distorted such as that it leads them to an incorrect conclusion (unfortunately, then, becoming untruth in the process)? In regards to Christians, and so-called bigots who would be accused of defacing the homosexual person's integrity by false-progressive people, I am referring to those whose thoughts are mired in religious-false teachings, yet whom simultaneously witness the need for an all-encompassing love, and compassion, toward all peoples - which is not akin to the blockheads who would sit and complain that "the homosexuals are ruining the fabric of society" meanwhile they drink in excess, physically abuse their spouse, or begot children without respect for the preciousness of life. Instead, these are the people who aspire to be kind, rational, and logical, yet whom simply cannot conceive of the core truth of certain matters because their false-religious/false-progressive teachings do not permit certain deductions. In other words, they are the people who might make excellent students of the Spiritual Teachings if only they were not placed in bondage by a system of false-religious teachings - simply because a desire to grasp the truth exists within them that cannot go to seed. The contact reports might refer to this group as the people who have not "fallen hopelessly into Christianity", as is the case, unfortunately, with many Christians.

More simply put, I refer to the people who others are drawn to because there is no presence of false-sincerity or false-sympathy within them; instead, there is the type of human who "calls it like they see it", although they evidently cannot see the core truth in its entirety because their false-teachings distort their perceptions.

I hope that my words have clarified the target of my previous (#19) post in the 'Reincarnation, Death, and the Storage Banks' thread. Please do not think that I am attempting to disregard your words carelessly, as this is far from my true intent; rather, I wish to explore the feasibility of potential that exists within a separate group of people, whom are rarely discussed; namely, the ones who are taught false-religious teachings, yet whom simultaneously retain some minor ability to perceive the core, absolute truth for as long as they do not fall hopelessly into the abyss of ignorance.
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Newinitiation
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Post Number: 742
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 04:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Celesco

Well I guess that people are human beings before they are religious just as a homosexual person is a human being first before this label.

I think that human beings as human beings will be human beings despite whatever influences influence them in life including religious people so I agree with you that people have a good side which transcends any external influences because they have a conscience but you'll have to agree that it's not just the religious group who are capable of good but you can find them even among neo-nazis or even criminals in penitentiary.

We might have to see and go beyond these labels as they are just descriptive words that seldom explain adequately the whole of the human beings with all their potentials.

It appears to me that you are religious and a homosexual person at the same time so you may be referring to those people who "calls it like they see it" as meaning you.

I don't know how indepth you've read Billy's words on homosexuality and also about religion and religious people according to the FIGU, Plejaren and Billy's point of view but for me having read it many times and came to some understanding of it, the teachings do not make any discriminatory and prejudicial distinction between those that acquaint themselves with the truth and religious and homosexual people.

Equivalence is given to all under the Creational natural laws and recommendations and no one is above or below another whomever and whatever people may be, this is according to the teachings but obviously it's a no brainer.

So as you say, you will need to read on it a lot more to get some idea of what the spiritual teachings are saying and what exactly it is about to have some understanding.

Even for me who has had the opportunity to read up on the stuff over a number of years on what is available in English I cannot exactly say that I am in any different position than yourself in terms of the level of understanding only that I have fortunately had more time than you so I hope you don't miscontrue my words as someone who is trying to teach you anything which I am absolutely not qualified to do only that I am describing matter of factly about the inevitable process required to get to know what it is saying and since you did say that you are only new to this I was of the understanding that you haven't adequately grasped what Billy stated about homosexuality and religion.

I am open to correction if I got it wrong or that I have misunderstood you.

regards
Matt Lee
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 136
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Friday, July 19, 2013 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Newinitiaton

It does not matter how eloquently it is said, if something is wrong then no words can make it right.
joe
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Celesco
Member

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt,

I think that you have expressed my meaning correctly when you wrote, "I think that human beings as human beings will be human beings despite whatever influences influence them in life." It is the main topic that I intended to discuss in my earlier post... although it seems to me that I conveyed it poorly, lol, and I am now beginning to see that my time is not used very efficiently by trying to learn everything myself, and then trying to explain it in the language of metaphors, when the knowledge is there, spread out in a logical manner, in Billy's words.

In response to your question about being religious and homosexual, I tried to write an explanation about myself, which would explain my knowledge, but in the end it seemed like a fruitless effort.

I will say tangentially, however, that it is nice to acknowledge the thinking of a 5-year-old in my consciousness now (I am a recovering know-it-all, lol). It has given me a great deal less stress because I don't think that I should have a certain amount of wisdom and expertise simply because I am 23-years-old anymore.

*Peaceful sigh* the truth is so liberating...
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Michael_horn
Member

Post Number: 696
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

> Are you referring to the opinons you've expressed here that no words can make right?
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Newinitiation
Member

Post Number: 743
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2013 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Votan

Yes I agree but exactly what are you referring to Votan?

If it is regarding homosexuality "Homosexuality - a Natural Occurence in Conflict with Nature"

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Homosexuality_-_What_is_its_Cause%3F

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_002

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_182

Then I side with FIGU and the spiritual teachings stand.

If on the other hand you are referring to prejudice and discrimination against homosexuality then I would also have to agree with you that it is wrong, period!

regards
Matt
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Jacob
Member

Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 06:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can lead a human to knowledge, but you cant make him think.
Salome,
Jacob

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
~ Socrates
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 137
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jacob.

People have the capabilities to think, but not always believe in all the knowledge that is given by human beings.
joe
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Jacob
Member

Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe,

You should never believe in information (knowledge), you should know and not believe.
Knowledge is the result of absolute logical insight in recognition of the truth by means of logical thinking.

The facts stay the facts, regardless if you accept them or not.

What I meant with saying "You can lead a human to knowledge, but you cant make him think." is that a person can be presented information and facts, but it is impossible to 'make' a person to think logically about them and accept the facts.

Every person is free to accept or reject the facts for whatever reason.

For example, there are hardcore Christians who firmly believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, and will not accept the fact that the Earth is much, much older, in order of billions of years.
Their belief does not change the fact that reality is totally different, then what they want to assume or accept.

It's a natural creative law that sooner or later people have to adjust their erroneous / incomplete views about reality if they want to continue their evolution, since the fact that illogical assumptions sooner or later always break and do not fit the ever ongoing and increasing complex of knowledge and insight, erroneous and incomplete views will work like a defective cogwheel and sooner or later self destruct.
Salome,
Jacob

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
~ Socrates
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 138
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jacob

We are bombarded with so much info these days that it is impossible to digest everything.

The old term to see is to believe is a good way to go.

We are also given intuitive powers and if something does not feel right then it needs to be investigated further.
joe
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Jacob
Member

Post Number: 99
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 04:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe,

You have the right to your believes.
Salome,
Jacob

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
~ Socrates

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