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Archive through October 04, 2014

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » Spiritual Life In Everyday Life » Archive through October 04, 2014 « Previous Next »

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Patm
Member

Post Number: 268
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael Helfert,

My apologies for misspelling your name in my last post here...

Salome
PatM
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Patm
Member

Post Number: 270
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael Helford,

This issue was discussed in Nov. 2012 when you brought up your "Opinion" regarding the raising of children by same-sex couples before. As this now appears to be nothing more than an attempt to influence new forum members with your illogical assumptions on how you think it should be regarding this specific topic.

Please read again my response to you quoting Billy's BEAM Portal article of 28-Dec-2012 regarding this subject titled:A Life-time Partnership requires True Love and an Ethical Attitude.
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/2200/12462.html?1353531206#POST62997

Salome,
PatM
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 454
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Friday, September 19, 2014 - 08:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pat,

Thanks for taking the time to spell my name right. I feel like the bearer of bad news who is threatened to be hung by his little toes for daring to say the truth. I ain't the source of this problem. The problem is mostly out there --> the greater world, not just in me.

Yes, we have discussed this issue before. I am not attempting to 'influence new [presumably gullible] forum members', or anything else that might be sinister or leftist-leaning. I just presented my opinion, which is based not only on what I have read in the Teaching, and discussed here and in other places on the forum, but also based upon personal experience. I wouldn't stand up against most of the long-term forum contributors here unless I felt a good reason to do so. And I do.

Again, it isn't that I wish some sinister pain or insult upon homosexual men. I don't, nor would I. I simply don't think that homosexual men should adopt children. In my mind (only, apparently), homosexual men have a rather complicated mindset, to say the least, and their influence over young minds is just too confusing, especially in terms of gender development for young boys. For the State to place babies and young children into such an environment is just not healthy for the children. Many people want to see this issue as one about dissing homosexuals or homosexuality, as if I would advocate the stomping of homosexual 'rights'. Nothing could be further from the truth, and if you bothered to get to know me, you would understand why that is just a ridiculous assumption. I bend over backwards to try to be fair to everyone. Such is my life. My concern isn't really about homosexuals and their rights or anything like that, my concern is about what is best for children, especially those who are too young to be given a choice to live in such environments. I think that growing up and living in a household parented by groups of homosexual men is gonna strongly impact the psyches of children to their unfortunate detriment.

This conversation started because we were talking about the precursor to civil war in the United States, if I remember right. I opined that differences in opinions regarding such progressive social issues as open immigration, coerced racial integration, and homosexual 'marriage' in the United States are some of the most contentious ideological issues our country faces, and that seeing these issues from only one side (the 'right' side, no doubt...) dismisses and ignores the opinions of a large segment of the population in the U.S., to our detriment. Quite a few people don't care about how their 'Change' agenda affects the conservative element of society, and it's these people, who consider themselves progressive, who are actually driving the country into civil war. Now, you may not like my assessment of the situation, but be sure - and listen to this for a moment - be sure to note that I am FAR from the only person in this country to hold these views. While progressive ideologues tend to flap their arms about and make alotta noise, the conservative population tends to act like an iceberg. If the helm of the good-ship America is captained by progressives, full speed ahead through a field of icebergs, well, I'm sure you get the picture. Not recognizing the validity of the conservative population of any society, offhandedly dismissing the cultural views that have developed through the wisdom of successive generations, no matter how backwards you may think they are, neither recognizing nor validating them is gonna lead to disaster in any society, aka civil war. That is the conversation we should be having, not 'homosexual this' and 'homosexual that'.

Since then, I have been cogitating on how and when to question Herr Meier, the Plejaren, the GOT, etc. I believe it's best that we take in what we are ready for, and not adopt cultural beliefs that our society simply can't yet cogitate on its own. We cannot move from where we are now to utopia in one fell swoop - such thinking is unrealistic for the greater population. That's a recipe for disaster. If we decide to take everything Herr Meier says as unquestionable canon, if we can't test and learn these things for ourselves, and if we can't come to different conclusions from Herr Meier, then yes, this is a cult. And I just don't wanna think that you or anyone else here is subject to cultic thinking processes.

True love also means patience. Everyone, and I mean Everyone, no matter how high and spiritually advanced they may be, everyone needs patience. We can't all expect the world to be perfect for ourselves. We all have to be patient with a world that's not entirely our own.
Life
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 710
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 19, 2014 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I read into what Billy is saying with regards to bringing up children is that it is quite appropriate and safe for some homosexual couples to be parents for some children; and conversely that some heterosexual couples are not suited to this. It all depends on the couple, and the child. I think Billy thinks we should not be looking at labels of homosexual or heterosexual here. What counts is the parental nature of the couple. Each couple is different and there is no set formular, sexual or otherwise, as to who will make good parents and who will not. Any prospective couple needs to be interviewed and found acceptable and suitable as parents, and the child should be in agreement; if not the proposal is rejected. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is basically the law anyway in most developed countries.

Basically what Billy is saying IMO is that one cannot make a blanket statement that every single homosexual couple in the world is incapable of being decent parents. I seem to recall reading that there are records that prove quite conclusively that there have been successful homosexual parents where children have been brought up without any problems to their psyche or sexuality.

If homosexual parenting is wrong then one needs to ask what about older sisters and brothers and other relatives who in some cases have greater influence on younger siblings than the parents in sexual matters. I know of one fine happily married heterosexual man who had an openly confessed lesbian sister. It actually taught him to be very tolerant of homosexuality while it didn't affect him in any way. I'm sure the same goes for many people with homosexual siblings, relatives, and parents.

Though Billy doesn't specifically say so we can read into his statement that Pam put up here (thanks, Pam) that the child's wishes will -- or should -- be respected in this area. That is, if the child thought they would not like to have homosexual parents then s/he would not be given them. Conversely if s/he has no problem with them being the parents and is accepting of them then they could become a family.

Again, I think this already is pretty much the law of the land in many counties and countries.
Chris

Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Bronzedesk
Member

Post Number: 123
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2014 - 06:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Chris,

Well researched founded and said! Hear...here, I agree totally 110%!
And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.
~ T. S. Eliot
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 872
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 - 12:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hot off the FIGU presses: http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/periodika/sonder-bulletin/2014/nr-80/homosexualit%C3%A4t

FIGU reiterates and corrects the oft misunderstood words, often twisted, misinterpreted and misused to confirm personal opinions, biases, viewpoints regarding the rights of those who are inclined towards partnering with the same-sex i.e. homosexuality. FIGU states their creationally lawful right to bond i.e. marry and to be adoptive or foster parents and how that is in agreement with the laws and recommendations of creation.

What goes against the laws of nature and the recommendations for the human being, would be a genetic manipulation or medical procedure to enable a male to bear a child.

However, as in any relationship between 2 partnering humans, the bond i.e. marriage and raising of children must be evolutive for all humans involved, therefore the rights and self-determinations of both partners and children must be respected and nurtured.
http://beam2eng.blogspot.com/

Bruce
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Matt
Member

Post Number: 454
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce, thanks for the heads up.

Btw, if you could decide now would you choose to be adopted (as a baby) into a same sex male couple or into a normal female/male couple if both couples brought you up in the same loving environment? Which one would you choose?

Me? I would choose the normal couple every time because I would want a mother and father.
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 455
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 - 05:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for pointing that out Bruce. My own translation verified the essence of what you read.

Now I know.
Life
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Bronzedesk
Member

Post Number: 124
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone,

When it comes down to it whether or not I want something, I have to take a moment to remember that there is a difference between ego and actual spirit! Spirit is a semblance of many lifetimes where in fact the me or I's will is the ego speaking not true spirit.

I don't know about you all but what I want and what spirit has decided on is truly not up to me and makes me a horse of a different color, almost every lifetime.

We go and do what spirit decides not what we as a personality or ego in this lifetime or any lifetime in that matter want or desire.

Overall do we have any say in the matter? No! We go and follow where spirit leads!

Namaste
And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.
~ T. S. Eliot
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 873
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 - 12:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt, from what I know, neither the fetus nor the spirit-form has a choice regarding their parents based on it's most recent personality with its personal preferences.

Therefore such a question is purely hypothetical and for entertainment purposes only and frankly, I never ask myself such questions. I think when I was much younger, I may have indulged in such speculations that would never see the light of day but these I'm a kill-joy regarding that type of game.

So to play along, it's hard for me to answer such a question except to say that I'm sure being raised by same-sex parents would provide opportunities to learn things one couldn't through opposite-sex parents.

Since we're speculating, would you prefer to be raised by intelligent, harmonious, loving same-sex parents who do their best to consciously evolve their consciousness and live according to creational principles and guidelines or by ignorant, fervently religious or substance abusing opposite-sex teen-age parents? If you ask such a question, the type of parents must be specified. Maybe you're asking if all things are equal, which one would prefer.
http://beam2eng.blogspot.com/

Bruce
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Matt
Member

Post Number: 455
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce,

Looking back I realize my illogical question was about my negative thoughts about male homosexual behaviour. It is because I feel repulsed by the idea of it. I don't know why I feel so strongly that way about it but I now know after reading Billy's comments that it is wrong and I shouldn't think like that. I am going to work on myself to try to change my negative views/feelings about homosexuals. It is a fault in myself that I have to work on. Hopefully I get to the bottom of those wrong feelings and change them.
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Andyv24
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Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This conversation has probably ran its course... I just wanted to throw something out there though:

Lets say that heterosexual couples demonstrably provided the most beneficial environment for children (something I am not convinced of), but even IF that was the case, we must all agree a loving homosexual couple of adequate means is a FAR better prospect for the child than growing up an orphan...yes?

Michael seems to disagree, that's what most disturbing about his comments to me. Also:

"Not recognizing the validity of the conservative population of any society, offhandedly dismissing the cultural views that have developed through the wisdom of successive generations, no matter how backwards you may think they are, neither recognizing nor validating them is gonna lead to disaster in any society, aka civil war."

You must realize this sounds dangerously close to arguments I heard (read about) in the 1950's-60's regarding a different disenfranchised segment of the population. 'It don't matter if it's unjust, it's just too soon to change! You must respect MY beliefs that I think I am better and deserve better treatment than these other people!'

All the while civil liberties continue to be unjustifiably thwarted... (and you may be surprised just how many civil rights and obligations are tied to the marital relationship; gays who want to marry but cannot are being denied A LOT of things...).

We are supposed to respect bigoted views because they are long standing, because they are tradition? If you are saying something different, please do clarify.

But moving on -- lets talk about something even more contentious!

Michael said it is is progressives who are pushing America towards civil war... how do you figure? Did you see the new poll -- some 53% of Tea Partiers want their respective states to secede from the union! 53%!

And was it a bunch of progressives who were on the Bundy ranch ready to take up arms against the Federal government, or did I miss something?

Michael -- if you care to respond to this, and I would enjoy it, should probably respond to me over on the WWIII thread or prophecies and predictions thread.

Take care.
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 460
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andy, you wanted to engage me in discussion re: contentious subjects. Perhaps this discussion is better placed under this heading than about war, though it touches upon both areas.

Re: homosexuality - this subject is highly emotionally charged now-a-days, perhaps more so than any other subject save the influence of (unmentionable) upon the world's societies. When something is said about homosexuality, people hear what they don't wanna, again and again and again. For instance, you find my comments 'disturbing'. Disturbing?... What's disturbing is that we can't say what we really think (unless it's politically correct) without our statements being exaggerated beyond their original meaning. Apparently it's wrong to to opine that groups of homosexuals shouldn't parent children (even though this is the natural state of things), so I keep reminding myself that this topic is just not important enough to me to cause another conflict on this forum, especially when there is so much other positive stuff to focus on. I can see both sides of this issue. While I can see that some homosexual men are capable of being loving towards children, I also feel concern for the children who psyches are impacted by the lack of balanced parentage. But you've probably heard that before. I don't have anything to add to my previous statements.

Re: change, as in deliberately forcing a change in other people's culture and way of thinking. Cause obviously you know better than they do about what is best for them. And they're just bigots. Can you not see the hypocrisy in this position? Can you not see how pushing for change can start a conflict? You say that 53% of Tea Partiers want their state to secede from the Union. Uh, Idunno about that statistic, but it would imply that they don't like how the country is changing. I haven't paid much attention to the Tea Party, actually. I'm registered as a Democrat. I voted for Obama with the hopes that, as a black Jew, he could see through the racial machinations and had enough backbone to keep us out of the next war for Israel. (Now that we are back on track for World War 3, look how that's turned out...) I even consider myself progressive in mindset, though tempered with conservative wisdom. But enough about me. I was talking about conservative people, people who have grown up with the traditional culture of America, regardless of what political party they ascribe to, and who are quite well-adjusted to their surroundings... these are the people whose world's you want to turn upside down for no good reason. The obvious element that you might be missing here is that people are entitled to think however they wanna think, all the more if that's what makes them happy. Of course forcing unnecessary change upon other people's way of thinking will cause misery and conflicts; can you not see how?

Perhaps this topic is better discussed here than under the heading of war because it is a discussion on how to apply the recommendations of the FIGU to think for yourself, to make judgements for yourself, and by extension to help others do the same. This is also a discussion about how to bring a balanced, grounded, realistic view of the world to the world, yet without proselytization. When we can have an objective conversation about contentious topics, one where people don't feel 'disturbed', then we finally will have made a change for the better. How we are supposed to inculcate realistic thinking and wisdom in our world without 'changing' the cultures of others, without causing conflicts over inflammatory topics, this is what I wish we were discussing. Circling back around to the beginning, I suggest that it is by helping people to think for themselves that we give them space to reasonably develop their own sense of wisdom. What do you think?
Life
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 226
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michaelhelfert

What annoys me the most is people coming out of the closet and declaring their sexuality. Do I really care. As if I am right and you are wrong.

Whether I go along with them or not is not the issue. It should not discussed at great lengths as it adds fuel to their fire.
joe
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 876
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michaelhelfert: " I voted for Obama with the hopes that, as a black Jew, .."

You're relentless, Helfert, relentless!

On this forum he's a Jew as well as part of the mission from ancient days, on another he's Muslim, on another still, a Christian and even others a commie-atheist.

That's present-day politics for ya.
http://beam2eng.blogspot.com/

Bruce
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Indi
Moderator

Post Number: 766
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2014 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please keep in mind the topic 'Spiritual Life in Everyday Life'!
Salome
Robyn
Denken Sie für sich selbst!
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Darren
Member

Post Number: 473
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Votan,

I also don't understand why gay people feel the need to come out and declare to everyone their sexuality as though everyone should know or like it's everyone's business. It reminds me of attention seekers.
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 461
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2014 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce, President Obama was born into a Jewish family, according to maternal lineage, though he has apparently spent most of his life focussing on his African heritage. If you are born to a Jewish mother, then you are Jewish. That's the way it works. There's no reason the minimize, hide, and/or ridicule this fact. He is whatever he is, and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I don't really care about President Obama's ethnic background, except that in this case it has afforded him the unique opportunity to develop an insight into the machinations of his Jewish peers, especially those pushing America into a series of strategic wars. Having read so much of the Spirit Teaching, I would hope that you could also not judge him so harshly solely on account of his race, but rather on who he is as a full human being, and what actions he takes.
Life
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Earthling
Member

Post Number: 878
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2014 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael, not sure where you get your info, nor how you logically and rationally swallow it, digest it, regurgitate it and then spit it out to others, without checking the facts first.

I am no expert on the man and his mommy & daddy, except a quick check of things reveals that his mommy, Stanley Ann Dunham (November 29, 1942 – November 7, 1995), the mother of Barack Obama,was born in Saint Francis Hospital in Wichita, Kansas, the only child of Madelyn Lee Payne and Stanley Armour Dunham. She was of predominantly English ancestry, with some German, Swiss, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh ancestry. Wild Bill Hickok is her sixth cousin, five times removed.

Ancestry.com announced on July 30, 2012, after using a combination of old documents and yDNA analysis, that Dunham's mother may have been descended from African John Punch, who was an indentured servant/slave in seventeenth-century colonial Virginia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham#Early_life

I see nothing in there that remotely suggests Obama's mommy was Jewish.

=============================================

http://atheism.about.com/od/barackobamareligionfaith/a/ObamaReligion.htm

And if the above link has any accuracy, it says "His mother was raised by non-practicing Christians; his father was raised a Muslim but was an atheist by the time he had married Obama's mother. Obama's step-father was also Muslim, but of an eclectic kind who could make room for animist and Hindu beliefs. Neither Obama nor his mother were ever atheists, but she raised him in a relatively secular household where he learned about religion."

============================================

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama

However, the above link says that Obama's father was married 3 times and once to a woman of Lithuanian Jewish descent and they had 2 sons, therefore Obama's 1/2 brothers would be considered Jewish, but Obama himself, no sir.
http://beam2eng.blogspot.com/

Bruce
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Vincent
Member

Post Number: 141
Registered: 06-2013
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2014 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michaelhelfert,

I never knew that Obama's mother was Jewish so I did a search and found that according to Wikipedia she is not Jewish. Have I missed something?


Ann Dunham

"Dunham was born in Saint Francis Hospital in Wichita, Kansas, the only child of Madelyn Lee Payne and Stanley Armour Dunham. She was of predominantly English ancestry, with some German, Swiss, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh ancestry."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
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Michaelhelfert
Member

Post Number: 462
Registered: 09-2011
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2014 - 05:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just an FYI, it does appear that I was wrong again. Go figure. Obama's maternal lineage wasn't Jewish as I thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
In fact the whole premise for why I voted for him in the first place may have been wrong. I voted for him because I hoped he would keep us out of wars. He hasn't done this.

Additionally, President Obama has obstructed immigration enforcement at every turn, even as he's presided over the strengthening of Federal police-state tendencies. Just recently I found myself (again) mulling his latest speech given to Mexicans residing here illegally (who number 12-25 million depending upon who's counting), in which he promised them an end-run around Congress, a presidential amnesty itself of questionable legality, in exchange for supporting the Democratic party, but not until after the November election since the American people won't like it and thus it will hurt the Democrats in the upcoming elections. While I credit him for not declaring all-out nuclear war on Israel's enemies as fast as humanly possible, and for partially pulling America out of a contrived banking crisis, while he does deserve credit for this, I won't support him or his like again. He has been instrumental in 'changing' what was America into some other country populated by people from poorer, less-well organized or fair societies. Apparently many of you here applaud this proactive maneuver as a humanitarian gesture, and I can very well understand that, but I can also see that America's population and borders should have been respected, not meddled with. Anyway, that's all 'changed' now, and a civil war we have to look forward to.

*****


As we study the spiritual side of of ourselves and our lives, we often stumble over the realization that all people are equal. This genuine, very deep truth lies at the crux of the issue for racism, immigration, homosexuality, feminism... we are all equal. And yet

and yet

and yet we are also all different. On this forum I have presented arguments that many of you seem to enjoy disagreeing with. That groups of homosexual men make poor parental models for children, especially young boys. That coteries of Jews use America as their tool to support a long-running duplicitous racist agenda (although these comments have mostly been censored). That open immigration constitutes an invasion against the original population. That a planet populated solely by women is unbalanced. That coerced racial integration is unhealthy and manipulative. That unwanted change foisted upon a an otherwise peaceful society is disrespectful, even offensive. In trying to distill my arguments to a single sound-bite that people can chew on, I have found the idea of respect to be important. Respect isn't a counter to the idea that we are all equal, nor do I try to discount the equality idea as so many of you seem wont to presume, but rather respect is another issue that we have to take into account in order to build a beautifully creative world. We cannot just overturn everything that ever was, and build a monolithic acultural society of mixed race, homosexual men and power-hungry women. That turns everything we have learned about how to build a healthy, happy society in the past many millennia upside-down. (Perhaps, do you think that history is only a litany of social failures, of how not to organize a society?) I have tried to support my arguments with examples from what Herr Meier and the Plejaren say. I figure they know more than most of us about how to organize a peacefully creative society. (Indeed, sometimes I daydream of what I could learn had I the resources they have to study all the different societies of man throughout the universe...) But I get the feeling that you think I am bigoted because I don't support your favorite progressive cause, whichever one it might be, to the umpteenth degree. This is the 'progressivism' that causes conflicts. We are all equal, yes certainly, and yet we are also all different, unique. The beauty of life lies in recognizing our innate self-realization, at the individual scale as much as at the societal. For an insular coterie to wrest the reins of a society from its former constituents is not beautiful to me, nor respectful, nor acting on the spiritual recognition of equality. You may think what is happening is the basis of a better, more equal world coming to fruition, and while I can see that, I can also see how this evolutive turn of events is forced upon America and the world, and thus is the basis of much conflict, both now and to come.


Maybe we can still avoid the nuclear conflagration of World War 3. I'm crossing my fingers n saying my prayers. Salome.
Life
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Newinitiation
Member

Post Number: 1247
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2014 - 06:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What in the end is the point of it all?
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Norm
Member

Post Number: 1538
Registered: 02-2000
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2014 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michaelhelfert, As far as I'm concerned Obama has turned into a disaster. His policies are hurting the world. Now he won't even close the Borders to the Ebola infected of West Africa at least until its contained. The UK & France no longer allow flights from that region. Everything he's doing is illogical to the point of insanity or is he losing touch with reality or is he so brainwashed in Political Correctness its totally blinded his judgment. Maybe Obama is the Ps guy he's doing plenty of the Billy wants a backing out of Iraq look what thats got us now. Staying out a Syria another of Billy's suggestions. I'm starting to wonder if the Ps & Billy know what the hell is going on down here. or maybe that what they want because it sure seems to me following some of their suggestions has caused more problems than solved. So far weve had two of the wrost Presidents in History. I wonder what we are going to get next. One things for sure this Political Correct dogma is destroying the planet.

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