| Author |
Message |
   
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 06:30 pm: | 
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> Walter,
One key thing is that we AREN'T self-sacrificing. That's a very religious idea and is based on illogical thinking, elevating others above oneself, etc. |
Corey
Member
Post Number: 902
Registered: 12-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 09:11 pm: |
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Mat,
I agree with Piyali! I liked what you said, "those who will, will, and those who won't, won't."
I guess ultimately it's up to the free-will of the individual, how creational it is, to use your free-will, and free-willingly fulfill the laws and recommendations of Creation in your personal life. I suppose ultimately, it is a personal thing. Choice.
When I went for a walk today, I noticed how all the trees are growing leaves again, how nicely they have come in this summer, and I thought of the law of becoming and passing, and what Billy said in the Q & A (Feb 28, 2009) about how the new leaves are compared to the laws of reincarnation, as the new leaves are compareable to the new personality, and consciousness of a new lifetime.
I try to learn as much as I can about these laws of Creation, and how they are observeable to the trained eye.
On my walk, I did as I usually do, and thought about how AA said, how the last 2000 years, we Earth-humans have forgotten the law of contrariness, and I thought how this nice warm summer day, is the polar opposite of a cold winter day I felt a few short months ago, and how bright the sunshine was on this fine walk, in comparison to the polar opposite of the dark night sky. Sun and moon. Warm and cold. Bright and dark. Quiet and noisy. Tree naked and empty with no leaves, or a tree bursting with green life. All polar opposites forming a unity.
In my walk, I wondered like I always do, if I ever thought of these things in earlier lifetime's, and wondered to myself, if I will ever think of them again in future lifetimes'.
It was a fine day to go for a walk. When I stopped for a rest at a bench, I checked my phone, and saw there was new email from the FIGU forums, and I read your post Mat, and it resonated.
On my way back home, I noticed the dead tree in my yard, that has a big "X" painted on it from the city (meaning that they will cut it down soon), has a new baby tree sprouting at the base of it, from the root. Maybe that is equivalent to the planet Earth, as crazy, and screwed up as our planet is, maybe that is why Billy never gives up hope, just when you think something is lifeless, new life appears. "The law of becoming and passing again" I thought. "Maybe I won't give up hope either" I thought.
It definitely was a fine day to go for a walk.
Thanks for your post Mat.
Mentalblock: Bewusstsein, Gedanken, Gefühle, Psyche
Bewusstseinblock: Charakter, Persönlichkeit, Unterbewusstsein, Ego, Gedächtnis "Lehrschrift" page 124
Ratio: Verstand, Vernunft, Klugheit, Moral "The Psyche" page 216
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Walterallen1
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2015
| | Posted on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 06:54 am: |
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Michael,
Granted I have much to learn about what you and many of these members already know and or understand. It has become my focus to acquire more understanding so that I may be enlightened by it.
Crazy as it may sound I was meditating this morning about self sacrifice and I wondered how sacrificing ones own life for the life of another plays into the laws of creation. I know I have gained a great breakthrough in my own evolution with what I have found. I truly know I am ripe for this, really I've been, in some way, waiting for this understanding. It seems to be the only thing that seems to make any sense.
Here's is what I am driving at...should I allow the death of my children if I could potentially save them by sacrificing myself? I haven't had any fear of death for a long time because I have believed in the eternal spirit for most of my life, but until now I have not known the truth about it.
Knowing the truth about anything in question brings me great peace and strength. Unfortunately most of what I have been taught or told to be the truth has turned out to be untrue or an out right lie. It's hard to explain why I know what Billy has worked for and shared with us to be the truth. Reading the Talmud of Jmmanuel really opened my eyes.
Any who, thank you for what you are doing. Your work has and continues to of great services to me.
Salome
Walter |
Bronzedesk
Member
Post Number: 154
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:31 am: |
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Kind sir,
Pardon me for interjecting here in front of Michael but the key to what if's, is immaterial (those are the things that make lawyers rich in this world) as to the what is going on with you now!
Living one day at a time and doing the best that you can do should warrant a clean and proper ending. No one here is to judge or be judged for their decisions made that they make along the way.
If in fact, it does occur you must hold and know that nothing ever happens for lack of cause and effect and that you will be just that... always somewhat ahead of things but all the way in front of the game at the end.
If you in fact have laid the foundations successfully both physically and spiritually for your family, then there is no need to be concerned. Yet I know that there will always be that question mark but for better or worse it will straighten itself out in the long run as you learn more more every day of your life.
But like I say... you can always try to understand it and accept it but that doesn't mean that you... have to like it and for sure Polly Anna we ain't!
Bronzedesk (Mat)
And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.
~ T. S. Eliot
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Piyali
Member
Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2012
| | Posted on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:32 am: |
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Great post Walter. I have often thought about this very subject matter myself.
My question to myself is, that yes, I would do anything to save my child first, even give up (sacrifice) my life if that's what it takes to save him (or her)...but here's the catch for me...should this "sacrifice" be made only as long as he (or she) is still unable to fend for himself (or herself), and is not yet matured enough to know how to save his (or her) own life? And refrain from interfering and jump in to save him (or her) once he (or she) is mature and grown and have been taught all the independent life and living skills to take care of himself (or herself)? Would this action then, fall under "self-sacrifice"? Would we, or should we, think of it in such terms? I still haven't found the answer to this question and I guess, it all depends on what kind of situation we find ourselves in.
"Self-sacrifice", in my personal opinion, should have no element of "heroism", but just doing what is necessary to do in the moment to preserve a life. Other than this, "sacrificing" oneself that would make one lead a miserable life would make no sense to me.
I also think, it ultimately depends on us entirely in a situation to act in the moment, a decision we simply make on the spot, right or wrong, we take action, for time maybe of essence. Hence, I do not know if the term "sacrifice" is applicable in such circumstances in a person's life?
I would appreciate more insight from members of this forum with regard to "sacrifice", "self sacrifice".
Thank you for sharing.
Salome with Love ~
Piyali
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Bronzedesk
Member
Post Number: 155
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 01:16 pm: |
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Dear Walter,
Please read the following: Semjase at the 10th contact of Wednesday, March 26, 1975, 3:20 pm
www.theyfly.com/PDF/IntroToSpiritual%20Teachings.pdf
Just cut and paste the url above and you should get some depth, however if you have already read this, I think it might in fact warrant another read.
bronzedesk (Mat)
And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.
~ T. S. Eliot
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Cpl
Member
Post Number: 778
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 06:42 pm: |
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Hello Walter,
It is never a matter of sacrificing oneself for ones children. One needs to live for ones children. The sacrificial option is not real: it is put forward by another and is IMO never to be accepted. All the alleged sacrificial scenarios are false: it is never an option. One does everything possible to preserve both. If that is not possible one may die trying, but that is not sacrifice; it is dying trying to do the right thing; rescue both. The sacrificial mind set is the error.
This probably owes its origin to mythology of the sacrifice of the negative ego; and this spread to the concept of man sacrificing himself on the alter of marriage when he decides to serve the wife abd future family rather than self. But this is only a form of sacrificing the negative purely selfish ego that does not think of others. In fact the marriage is (ideally) the fulfilment of the man not his sacrifice. Through it he becomes the true human. This all goes back to the philosophy of the grail. But it all got confused with real sacrifice, which is never to be because it is anti life, and therefore has no place in life or the mind. This is how I see it. If we are always truly for life the very concept of sacrifice cannot arise, let alone be accepted.
Chris
Use to the full both your heart and your head; and never lose either.
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Billwilson12
Member
Post Number: 117
Registered: 07-2013
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 01:59 pm: |
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Walter
You have gotten into a chinese finger trap.With this little toy one learns the secret is to relax the grip by pushing not pulling. In Billy's writings he says sometimes we need to try to use simpler concepts to help others to understand the spiritual teachings. But with you and I being 54 that covers several stages of life. By searching the contact reports on the futureofmankind website most of this is covered. My child and I had some real hard lessons to learn, and he did not want the medicine that he needed. One of which was that I love him completely and the reverse is not excepted nor demanded. He currently is still trying to find who he is and to love himself as it should be, he is doing things his way as I did.
Billy Wilson
OM.K49 34. The human-restricted personality is itself only from time to time conscious. In between times lie great holes in the consciousness.
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Darcy_carlile
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 10:41 pm: |
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I think people who chatter about sacrifice are delusional and it is a revolting thing to discuss with other people. |
Patm
Member
Post Number: 325
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 07:14 pm: |
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Regarding the questions about the Killing of Life
my unauthorized/unapproved English translation from the original German text - may contain errors
from the book Decalog/Dodecalogue
https://figu.org/shop/b%C3%BCcher/dekalog-dodekalog?language=en
in the 6th recommendation: You should not kill in Ausartung Du sollst nicht töten in Ausartung
Verses 368 - 373 & 375-376 pages 48-49
368. Thus listen then, human beings of the Earth, you should not kill in Ausartung.
369. This the Creation teaches to you through the nature, in which all recommendations and laws are established and more recognizable, thus you need to try only to consider and to realize them, in order to achieve compliance to them.
370. Through this recommendation the Creation speaks to you of the killing in the general and in the specific.
371. Therefore - everything that, which has living breath in itself, you should seek to preserve the life and not kill it in Ausartung, which there are: hatred, egoism, jealousy, quarrel, desire, maliciousness, revenge, condemnation, greed, vice and many other equally directed unvalues.
372. Thus you however must kill in self-defense of yours or another good life, in order to protect it and preserve the living breath, then you are made not guilty of the killing in Ausartung.
373. Then since force is imposed on to you, you will always be without blame.
368. So höre denn, Mensch der Erde, du sollst nicht töten in Ausartung.
369. Dies belehrt dich die Schöpfung durch die Natur, in der alle Gebote und Gesetze verankert und erkennbar sind, so du sie nur zu beachten und zu erkennen bemühen brauchst, um ihnen Befolgung zu leisten.
370. Durch dieses Gebot spricht zu dir die Schöpfung vom Töten im allgemeinen und im besonderen.
371. Also - alles das, was lebendigen Odem in sich hat, sollst du dem Leben zu erhalten suchen und es nicht töten in Ausartungen, was da sind: Hass, Egoismus, Eifersucht, Streit, Lust, Bösartigkeit, Rache, Verurteilung, Gier, Laster und viele andere gleichgerichtete Unwerte.
372. So du aber töten musst in Notwehr deines oder eines anderen guten Lebens, um es zu schützen und des lebendigen Odems zu erhalten, dann machst du dich nicht schuldig des Tötens in Ausartung.
373. Denn da dir Zwang auferlegt wird, wirst du immer ohne Schuld sein.
...
375. Thus if you kill in your chosen time, and according to your free choosing in Ausartung, you make yourself guilty of the killing and fall prey to the law of the elimination (cast out in isolation).
376. Your efforts, human being of the Earth, your process against a life form must to such an extent be, that the inherent life in no form by you is shortened also even by a one second of your term, therefore the laws of protection, the self-defense, the life-support and the procurement of nourishment do not demand their values.
375. So du aber tötest zu dir beliebiger Zeit, und nach deinem freien Ermessen in Ausartung, machst du dich des Tötens schuldig und verfällst dem Gesetz der Eliminierung.
376. Dein Bemühen, Mensch der Erde, dein Vorgehen gegen eine Lebensform muss derart sein, dass das ihr innewohnende Leben in keiner Art auch nur um eine Sekundeneinheit deines Begriffs verkürzt werde, so nicht die Gesetze des Schutzes, der Notwehr, der Lebenserhaltung und der Nahrungsbeschaffung ihre Werte fordern.
----
Summary:
As explained everything that, which has living breath in itself should not be killed in Ausartung (something that has very badly got out of the control of the good human nature) with the exceptions when demanded of by the laws of protection, the self-defense, the life-support and the procurement of nourishment.
Hope this helps.
Salome
PatM |
Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1476
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 08:14 pm: |
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Good one Pat now tied in with this law for protection of all lifeforms that crawls, walks, breathes, runs, swims and so forth, in simple terms, do you have more in your translation or notes about how Nokodemjon's decree and 'logical force' action can be reconciled with this law 'kill only in self defense as last resort' with 'do not kill in depravity' to 'you shall not kill in Ausartung' and so on for those who may not understand this term correctly.
According to my understanding Nokodemjon's decree of logical force represents 'self defense of life as a last resort' even if due to that decree many lifeforms would've perished and killed.
Those killings would've taken place, I would imagine, during apprehending of the criminals when they fought back with Ausartung force thereby leaving Nokodemjon's generals and Androids no choice but to eliminate them in self defense using their weaponry much in the same way that Asket's people of Timars killed Ashtar Sheran and his followers using the same means to eliminate them only after they left the Timars no choice but to use deadly force. |
Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 386
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 04:17 pm: |
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In defence of self or others and importantly a warning that deadly force will be used
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them.
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 439
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 11:52 pm: |
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Ilovebilly.
Hi where have you been. I had no problem with you as every body deserves to be heard and each of us can have a different opinion, unlike those that have a hate agenda.
If you have a hate agenda keep it to yourself.
joe
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Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 387
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 05:19 am: |
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G"day Votan
Eh eh that's funny from my angle mate
No not angry. I just mentioned the law of The Creation being discussed about killing in self defence that a warning must also be given that deadly force will be used
When The Teaching is in you it's easy to tell who it's in and who it is not
Salome
ilovebilly
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them.
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Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 03:27 pm: |
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Yes life indeed is the ultimate stage of learning and there is no better teacher than that.
Recently in my workplace I've encountered a few bigots and racists who's attitude had an infectious negative vibe on their other fellow workers thereby ruining the whole atmosphere of what up to that point congenial and positive.
One in particular put on an air of stoic and macho bravado constantly backbiting and calling people gooks, wogs, fags and poofters.
Yet time and time again the history of these kind of people laid bear stark and right in front of me.
If you are righteous and not guilty why would anyone need to bother try calling out other people and obssess about their sexuality least of all using derogatory terms like fags and poofs if they themselves are not one albeit in secret.
It is most likely people in the closet who are so insecure about their own sexuality and who by the way entertain homoerotic and homosexual fantasies in secret that they have to contantly put other people down hypocritically that they are guilty of the very thing that they are accusing others of.
Yet it is by their deeds that you shall know them and you couldn't help but feel sorry in a way for these people because despite their put on facade of macho toughness they were actually weak and most in need of compassion and love and not brute force of retaliation.
Most likely they were themselves grown up in a household being raised around bigotted people who most probably have been emotionally, physically and sexually abused as children who grew up to loathe and despise the very thing that has weighed them down all their life but in denial they still haven't come to terms with their demons.
It is the wrong way to deal with the problem but the only way that these people know how to deal with it and as the clock ticks ever so constantly these people I am afraid is solidifying like concrete these attitudinal, behavioural, thought wise and feeling wise forces within themselves which will reinforce this feedback mechanism of stimulus-reward that there will be no escape out of this loop.
Like religion the belief that what and how they think is justified is the very hell they are creating for themselves and the cause of the effect they create for themselves will in time come back to bite them in the bum through misfortunes and destruction they have caused others via their thoughts, feelings and actions.
Everytime I see a boomerang it reminds me to pick and choose wisely.
Matt lee |
Billwilson12
Member
Post Number: 134
Registered: 07-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 05:54 pm: |
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Newinitiation, You are seeing the hope for a better future. Back in 1980 in the same work area if someone lost control of this secret of sexuality it would lead to a very aggressive attack, an no one would even care if this went physical. Everyone desires a to have a good work environment, but sometimes it takes knowledge to make things change for the better when dealing with passive aggressive people or want to be alpha males. Learn where that persons comfort zone is you would call this his aura zone. Once you know this just treating them like a barking dog, start stepping into that zone every time they start barking. If you have to get a little more aggressive read up on mirroring body language. This should be a last resort call, this can make anyone nervous, some call this shadowing. You would be amazed at how powerful a smile a happy thought can get you.
Peace
Billy Wilson
OM.K49 34. The human-restricted personality is itself only from time to time conscious. In between times lie great holes in the consciousness.
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Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 181
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 09:27 pm: |
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Mat,
Very well said; what's wrong with writing something similar and posting it around those that were affected be these bigots.
From Anonymous?
Some of the affected will understand the truth in these words and maybe, the bigots will understand there wrongdoing? If only one person sees and understands truth, it's a victory.
Kenneth |
Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 10:16 am: |
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Good idea Kenneth only problem is that many sheep's have come out of the woodworks like children to the flute of a ratcatcher and see his antics as amusing rather than conscionably repulsive.
So as they say people have a sado machochistic streak to them and actually enjoy the punishment.
Hell have no magnet like headlight to an insect.
Hehe
Matt lee |
Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 10:09 am: |
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Bill I guess whoever the target is or was that kind of thing should not be tolerated especially in the workplace or anywhere for that matter.
But thing with human nature is that even the supposedly good people gravitate towards the alpha types because for some reason these aggressive type's fake exterior toughness or facade has them drooling because it is perceived to the weak as courage a quality sorely lacking in the submissive types.
I treat them as human beings should a another human being and with some emotional judo I have somewhat placated these aggressive types by remaining neutral but firm rather than being over awed and aquiesing.
Forced forcelessness as Billy calls it works.
Matt lee |
Billwilson12
Member
Post Number: 136
Registered: 07-2013
| | Posted on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 06:01 pm: |
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Newinitiation, The current concept of what a workplace is can be very board and very unnatural, since it is joining of people for income, and reacquires being with others that are not of like mind or natural shared culture. Some are just short of being prison cell blocks.I am lost with the term emotional judo could expand on that if you do not mind.
Peace
Billy Wilson
OM.K49 34. The human-restricted personality is itself only from time to time conscious. In between times lie great holes in the consciousness.
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Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 03:34 am: |
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Hey Bill I borrowed the term from 'verbal judo' although someone by the name of Ron Kaufman was already using the term.
I meant it in the same vein as what Billy was referring to in his article 'Being Oneself' |
Billwilson12
Member
Post Number: 137
Registered: 07-2013
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 10:27 am: |
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. Newinitiation, BEAM has given us so much knowledge that we can use in any box we find our self's in. An the article "Being Oneself" would be a good read before even opening your door to walk out into the wild. But once in a unnatural grouping Billy's article "Sensible, Dignified, Valuable" 13th October 2004 in it's self covers the workplace. But it would be logical to prime the reality of the zone with earlier lessons. By choosing to be a real human-being you also have choosen to take responsibility for your inner and outer world. Plus to carry your spiritual learning till the last breath of this personality has been drawn. Plus into that last little wonderful conscious aware time. In both of the phases "Emotional Judo" and "Verbal Judo" the spiritual teachings have degraded to a debate which is a battle, no one wins, and an aggressor will tend to reinforce their wrong thinking. In your workzone you mentioned a sudden change in one person's mind set, but are you mindful of any changes within that zone in the days or weeks before hand (new symbols, painting, music, or equipment sounds ect...).
Peace
Billy Wilson
OM.K49 34. The human-restricted personality is itself only from time to time conscious. In between times lie great holes in the consciousness.
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Newinitiation
Member
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 06:25 pm: |
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I agree Bill
Billy has given us so many proper templates of life that all we have to do is put it in the oven and bake the pies so to speak.
Yet in the real world involving the masses who have yet to know the spiritual teachings the dynamics of inter and intrapersonal relations is still stuck in the dark ages hence the cause and effect they bring to the table presents all the usual petty challenges.
For example not only do we humans spend a big chunk of our lives in the workplace but it can also be an arena where it creates the most stress for people leading to early deaths.
A place where it should be a source of joy, satisfaction, contentment, meaning, productivity, and a sense of purpose is in the majority for vast amount of people a place to dread, a source of anxiety, pain, suffering, grief, conflict, worries, depression, hyper stress and distress.
It is no wonder then that there is an epidemic of alcohol, drugs and medication abuse as a form of escape and coping mechanism.
The monotonous and drudgery of work along with toxic social atmosphere of backchatting, backbiting, vicious gossip, petty jealousies, put downs, negativity, bullying, prejudice, discrimination, rumour mongering, fault finding, scapegoating and what have you creates an ideal environment for war rather than congenial, harmonious and cooperative working environment.
So essentially people are the main source of stress for one another.
The vast amount of people day in and day out expend so much wasted energy at work on much ado about nothings where they constantly worry about what other people are going to think and say about them.
There is just uneasy tolerance rather than genuine camraderie, trust, friendship, cooperation, helpfulness, understanding, compassion, creativity, higher purpose and support.
The madness of it all is that people are rarely aware that whilst they worry about what smack other people are going to say and talk about them, they themselves continue in the same wise by talking badly about others behind people's back when in reality they should first start with themselves by stop doing these kindergarden, infantile and childish antics.
So it isn't so much the diversity, cultural difference, skin colour, different upbringing, age, gender and so on that is the main problem but plain and simply a lack of proper education and information on genuine Creational spiritual teachings that not only the world over but our current workplace is infested with the cancerous negativity and improper conduct that creates all the problems we currently have in the work place around the world including mine.
Matt lee |
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