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Message |
   
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 199
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 05:04 am: | 
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I'd like to know what all or some of your opinions are regarding the following question:
Would you surrender/compromise your mind/thinking/consciousness if you were threatened with your life?
Is it right to take an uncompromising stance concerning your mind/thinking/consciousness in the face of death? Or is it better to preserve your life at whatever cost and give lip service in order to continue with your growth/evolution?
Of course, I realise this is a matter of conviction. Many people in the world will compromise themselves, but I'd like to know what people here think.
Joseph |
Historeed
Member
Post Number: 112
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 07:57 am: |
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Joseph,
"Would you surrender/compromise your mind/thinking/consciousness if you were threatened with your life? "
The following is just my opinion:
I would say yes, in that according to Creational law, one has the right to protect one's life or that of another. If that means saying whatever it takes to survive, so be it. Being a martyr doesn't assist in one's evolution of consciousness.
Matthew Reed
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Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 744
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 08:21 am: |
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A creational recommendation is that one should NOT loose their life or bring harm upon themselves for the sake of the Truth.
Better to refrain and increase one's own evolution. Then, when the climate is right, proceed to effect our circle of influence.
One cannot bring about effective change if one is dead.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 528
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 09:18 am: |
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Billy taught All of us figu folks to fight to the last breath, (its evolution in action) we evolve quickly and are unstoppable then
Note:We prefer to live not die, if you calmly think with your mind/thinking/consciousness you generally have a good chance to live, we dont agree at any time to death.
RE:if you were threatened with your life
(if we die fighting we always come back stronger, (live or be RE-Born/knowing more) (Evolve)
That means NO Compromise, especially for the mind/thinking/consciousness, thats howto evolve/survive/live.
NO Compromise
We know we cant be stopped, not even death stops us (The Figu)
Its only logical thats its true
The Cycles (cosmic energy) and evolution level (among other things) dictate if the truth is well known or not, that brings a balance of Light and dark through evolution
2012 was the start of a new cycle, the slate gets cleaned often during this time though.We know we are spirits that create millions of bodies until we dont need bodies, death of a body is just a step to the next body. (Truly unstoppable especially with meditation)
And we dont fear any of the gods, we dont want to upset our family or mates (Plejaren) though ;-)
Salome
ilovebilly
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them.
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 720
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 10:43 am: |
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Joseph
Never ever would I surrender. It is a matter of principle. No one has ever pushed me around and they never will.
joe
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Andrew_grimshaw
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 02:00 pm: |
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I just wasted YEARS talking to a fool about "Thinking and Thought" as I was under the impression that it was interested in the Spiritual Teaching, itself, when in fact it was ONLY trying to pick my brain and verify the "truth" a religious nut-case had told it. SELF-RESPONSIBILITY!!! You can read all about the answers to your questions, yourself.
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 05:36 pm: |
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It's a tricky situation.
When we really are living in the truth, then we cannot say even the smallest untruth, because that is equivalent to consciousness death in the truth, and is the same thing as committing killing in Ausartung.
So if I said, "I believe in your god" in order to escape from fanatic persecution, then it would mean the death of my consciousness in the truth anyway. And then if they decided to kill me anyway, I would not be living in the truth at the time of death, and so it would be worse than if I had either said nothing while holding firm to the truth internally, or perhaps found an artful, roguish way to speak the truth without betraying myself, or something like that.
It's a very limited way of thinking to consider it like a duality, but I don't say that to claim superiority. It is just a fact that we Earth humans have gotten into a long habit of putting ourselves to the philosophical conundrum, "Would you do this more painful but honest thing or betray yourself if it would make your life easier?" as if they are the only two options.
But they aren't actually, and the life of Muhammed shows us that it's possible to walk among fanatical believers in an arch-roguish way and still get along in their world without betraying ourselves. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 05:37 pm: |
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P.S. By "tricky situation", I mean it is an actual challenging situation to be in, and it takes cleverness and clarity to get out of it. The actual seeming philosophical conundrum is not tricky or complicated. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 05:48 pm: |
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Hey Joseph, I'll talk more from my own heart here now, since to answer your other question I had to access my Verstand which is colder than my heart.
Do you need to go for a walk in the park or something, buddy..?
Your question is pretty dark, and you're thinking a lot about all these troubled prophesised times eh?
It's pretty freaky to me too. But our Billy says, when we die righteously in peace, then it is like a pleasant experience- very nice and gentle.
That's something nicer to think on eh? 
I got more to say about staying safe in those terrorist times if it comes to real hardship, too, since I have thought about it a lot. If you want to hear my own thoughts- or share some of your own worries? We can work our way through them together, and then feel better and more secure in ourselves
Hey Scott or Indi, could we have a separate thread created for that in fact? A thread for ... discussing the actual practical matters to do with living alongside war and terrorism? I'm certain that is it really not so scary as it sounds .. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 11:52 pm: |
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It may not be so good to get into confessions of feelings of worry actually. Sorry I suggested that. In my experience, it doesn't lead to a really great destination... It's better to try and talk in creative ways.
Actually, though, tonight I am recognising a mental illness in my consciousness - my schiozphrenia came back - so I'm going to do my duty and get it solved before I try to keep on working in the group.
Bye all for now, Salome |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 202
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 08:33 am: |
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Thanks for your replies regarding my question above. To be honest, I wasn’t sure how you would answer. I didn’t think it would be so black and white.
Eddie, you said: “A creational recommendation is that one should NOT lose their life or bring harm upon themselves for the sake of the Truth“. Where is that stated? That’s probably the most interesting answer to my question, assuming it is correct. But giving it as an answer implies that it is okay to compromise your thinking/consciousness, and I’m not sure if that’s what is meant by it. By itself I would take it to mean that one should not put oneself at risk for the sake of the Truth. My question, however, concerns a situation where your life is threatened unless you renounce your principles/philosophy/understanding, so your life is already at risk because of the Truth.
Matthew, pardon the expression, but isn’t it like “selling your soul to the devil” saying whatever it takes to stay alive? Is there an element of risk that you could become brainwashed as a result of surrendering your thinking/consciousness?
ILoveBilly, you said: “If we die fighting we always come back stronger”. Do we? So you disagree with Eddie and Matthew? Why was 2012 the start of a new cycle?
Votan, I love your stance. Stand firm and steadfast.
Andrew, I learned years ago not to engage religious people in religious debate. It’s pointless. I know the answers to my questions. I just wanted to know yours.
Tyler, you said: “So if I said, "I believe in your god" in order to escape from fanatic persecution, then it would mean the death of my consciousness in the truth anyway”. This is what I think. I think there is a danger of compromising your thinking/consciousness (in the same way, perhaps, that some here fear compromising their thinking/consciousness when confronted with Biblical material). Your answer was the alternative answer I was looking for: “…it would be worse than if I had either said nothing while holding firm to the truth internally, or perhaps found an artful, roguish way to speak the truth without betraying myself”.
I don’t know that I have it in me to outsmart an evil mind. I probably can find an artful, roguish way to speak the truth, if I tried, but I’m not sure that I’d want to if it means living a lie. A strong part of me agrees with Votan. It is a matter of principle. The difference with me is that I have been pushed around and I have had my thinking/consciousness compromised, so I know what it’s like when you yield to others who want to impose their thinking on you. If that could be avoided, however, I’d remain silent and hold firm to the truth internally.
Tyler, thanks for your concern. Yes, I probably do need to go for a walk in the park. I need some natural beauty in my life. My problem is that I struggle with depression and so everything becomes internalised, even a simple walk in the park.
What does it mean to die righteously in peace? Does it mean to die with a clear conscience and a peaceful mind? What if that isn’t possible?
Joseph |
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 745
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 01:27 pm: |
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Joseph_emmanuel:
" My question, however, concerns a situation where your life is threatened unless you renounce your principles/philosophy/understanding, so your life is already at risk because of the Truth."
The creational recommendation, as I understand it, clearly states that we SHOULD renounce the truth.
"Can't effectuate anything positive if we are dead" (an expansion of the same principle).
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 04:24 pm: |
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Death is not scary anymore when you see the bravery of a human being with strong nerves.
But we don't have to do that anyway, get ourselves in that situation like you described in the first place Joseph. we can live quietly in the truth. What everyone wrote is correct. |
Str0323
Member
Post Number: 63
Registered: 02-2012
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 02:32 pm: |
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Joseph, in the Goblet of the Truth it says, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Do not give up your life for the Truth." I'm at work right now so I can't give you the page number. The human being can always be thinking of the truth while making a statement and acting contrary to it. If the human being has to say such a thing to save his/her life or the life of another then, as Billy does explain, this would not be a lie but rather the concealment of the truth. Check in the Q&A to Billy where he explains this.
As long as the human being stays steadfast in his/her thinking and understanding of the truth then nothing can harm his/her consciousness no matter what he/her has to say to save his/her life or the life of another.
Peace, Scott Reed. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 203
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 02:26 pm: |
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Eddie, that's really interesting! But you will forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Where in the vast array of knowledge contributed by Billy is that stated?
Joseph |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 04:25 pm: |
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And sorry I know I said I would stay away from the forum but I guess that was a dumb thing to promise today, but I was tired and not thinking very clearly |
Andrew_grimshaw
New member
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2017
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 03:45 pm: |
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Eddie,
It's as though you have never heard of the 12 Recommendations.
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Andrew_grimshaw
Member
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2017
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 04:06 pm: |
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Joseph,
I'm not sure if the fool was religious, it said otherwise, but in the end I found out that I was up against a lie machine and up to 50 internal voices. Now that is going to be one interesting time in the other world, I hope it gets the time to completely get through the necessaries before reincarnating.
You say, "I know the answers to my questions. I just wanted to know yours." I say you must have known what I was going to say, as you know the answers to your questions, so why ask the question?
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 721
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 06:36 pm: |
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Scott Reed
Well said. As humans we all make plenty of mistakes, but if you live your life and do not rip people off and help people to the best of your abilities then you have lived your life as being a good person.
Money and religion brings out the worst in people.
joe
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Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 588
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 06:37 pm: |
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Joseph_emmanuel,
There has been a lot said already that I’m in agreement with. Bottom line, I’ll do what it takes to protect my family and self, but it must be done without hatred and preservation of the truth, i.e., Billy’s Teaching.
Sincerely
Kenneth |
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 884
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 09:54 pm: |
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Joseph,
Here is another way of looking at this. When the life is threatened the person can respond naturally in untrue ways; as when someone is tortured. It's why torture doesn't work. The tortured person tells what s/he has too to stop the pain. They do not compromise their consciousness by doing so. It is merely the Creational law of self preservation and the preservation of life.
Another analogy can be found with film and stage actors. They have to play a part which isn't their real self. In doing so they speak and feel completely differently from their real personality. Convincingly acting out a role of a crook in a film doesn't mean the actor has compromised their consciousness or conscience. They are just using words and feelings to do what must be done. It does not, or should not, affect the real person.
Similarly, acting out a role to preserve life is not compromising one's real consciousness.
On the suggestion that "lying is selling ones soul to a devil (which doesn't exist) " or some such: This is a gross misunderstanding peddled by religious leaders who can thereby control their followers. In fact a lie has not been told anymore than the tortured person tells a lie when saying something is true that is not. The truth is closer to the opposite, as I see it: To allow the death by not saying something -- anything -- is more the travesty to one's soul (psyche) and consciousness. Choosing the right way -- saving life -- will help the spirit and consciousness grow in wisdom, understanding, and love of life.
Chris
Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.
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Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 746
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 11:02 pm: |
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Joseph_emmanuel:
"Eddie, that's really interesting! But you will forgive me if I don't
take your word for it. Where in the vast array of knowledge
contributed by Billy is that stated?"
It is in the Goblet of the Truth.
http://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/buecher/goblet-of-the-truth.pdf
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 204
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 11:17 pm: |
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Adnrew, you said: "you must have known what I was going to say, as you know the answers to your questions"
That doesn't make sense. Firstly, you didn't even state a clear answer to my question, but I'm assuming by self-responsibility your opinion is that one shouldn't compromise one's thinking/consciousness, although it could also mean that one is responsible for oneself and, therefore, one's own life. So your answer to my question, if that's what it is, could go either way because it isn't clear as to what you mean by self-responsibility.
Secondly, how could I know what you were going to say? You could have given one of three answers: 1. To compromise one's thinking/consciousness; 2. Not to compromise one's thinking/consciousness; 3. To find an artful, roguish way to speak the truth without betraying myself.
And thirdly, knowing the answers to my questions doesn't mean I know the answers to your questions. If that were true, no one would ever ask any questions because we all, to some degree, have an opinion on the questions we ask. Are we to assume that we share the same opinions? Of course not. |
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