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Archive through March 18, 2017

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Corey
Member

Post Number: 121
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eddie's verse can be found in "Goblet of the Truth" 3:202. Around here we call him "Goblet Eddie".
Salome/Corey Müske
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 122
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tyler, I am glad you posted as I always enjoy your posts as they contain good Verstand, Vernunft und Logik, I sincerely wish you continue to post, can you drop me a line sometime at corey.mueske@gmail.com? There is something I need to talk to you about.
Salome/Corey Müske
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 205
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 03:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The following are recommendations 9 and 12 of the 12 recommendations from the Petale level:

9. You shall never, never speak an untruth.
12. Never, never put Creation's recommendations and Creation's laws into unworthy cults.

Renouncing the truth, therefore, is not recommended at all, and neither is compromising it. So as "followers" of the truth, we must stand firm and steadfast, even if it is at the risk of losing our lives.
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 885
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph,

Billy answers this when he talks about lies, white lies and whether we should lie to save someone's life. I don't recall where, but those might provide useful searches for you.

Saying something that isn't true in order to save a life is not lying; you are saving a life by merely perceptively agreeing with the fool or violent abuser.

You would not be damaging your consciousness because it is not what you actually think but rather just a way of appeasing a fool to save a life. As Eddie mentioned, it would be wrong not to save the life. Just ask yourself which is the greater evil saying something you know is not true while holding the truth in your heart or not rescuing a life that you could have. The latter would set anyone further back in their evolution than the former.

One reason it is all right to say something not actually so in these instances is because they are just words; you yourself know differently. You have not denied your consciousness or conscience. Once you know the truth it is impossible to deny it. This doesn't mean you cannot say it's bunkum if doing so will save your life. You, in yourself, have not denied the truth, you have merely said what you HAD to say. In extreme situations our hands can be tied giving us no alternative.

Lesser issues than saving a life are issues that the individual alone can decide IMO. Denying the truth to appease family members and "keep the peace" is a different issue, and IMO only the individual can know what is best to do. It is very difficult for young children or even youths to contradict family with a truth they know, but when old enough they should be able to peacefully explain that their position is different. Allowing family members to think the wrong thing about one can be its own problem leading to other problems. When living together permanently the truth should come out if there is no immediate danger to anyone for doing so.

Again, however, the variations on this are legion, and so IMO only the individual can know their situation well enough to say what is the right thing for them to do.
Chris

Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.
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Msmichelle
Member

Post Number: 285
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 06:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph clearly to me with the amount of questions you have ....you are suffering with some type of depression....
If you have not gotten a copy of The Might of The Thoughts, I suggest you do so immediately...
Statements like "holding steadfast, Don't Worry Be Happy, the opposite of Love is hate" are nothing more, in my opinion, than religious jingles which has been impaled in our brains as the Truth... and are extremely compromising to a delicate mind..
If you attempt to be all Positive or all Negative, you will eventually kill yourself, the Idea is to neutralize your experiences... as well, it is Logical to Live at any cost...The Might of The Thoughts will help you quiet the illogical and irrational thoughts and and help you answer your own questions
Any responses members?
MsMichelle
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Tyler
Member

Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2017
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 06:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, but hey, don't get ahead of yourself too much yet eh! It's an interesting topic for discussion, to build up an image of how the actions should go, but don't get too far into the opposite direction and assume that now you're going to go out of the life being slain.

Eddie had a right sense too, it is not recommended at all TO die for the truth. It's just better to keep silent, that's all. That's why I love to think about how Jmmanuel and Muhammed lived, but it doesn't mean it's good to get myself pumped up to rush out into danger and die for no good cause.

If I may say Joseph, your inquisitiveness can be good, but be careful because I think your many conundrum posts could lead you to be like the cat and the curiosity that wasn't always good for it. We are still young in our truliness, very young, so we are in no mission to risk our lives since I don't know any of us who are even at the point to even go and spread the truth teaching the old-fashioned way yet.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 207
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 06:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just read Chapter 3, Verse 202 in the Goblet of the Truth. Thanks, Corey, for pinpointing it. A very interesting chapter that contradicts my last post 205. Please ignore it, although I will say, the word "renounce" is the wrong word to use, but I know what you mean, Eddie, in context with the Goblet of the Truth.

Thanks for all your replies. I might respond to one or two other posts in this thread.
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 2673
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 07:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lying vs concealment

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_028
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Andrew_grimshaw
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2017
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph,
Let's just say that you could have said, "I know MY answers to my questions." and ANYTHING I happened to say was meant to get you to think for yourself as it has been brought to my attention that I could very well be wasting my time by pointing you in your current lifetime to what I read to help me understand the importance of one's spoken and written words and behavior.
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 886
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph,

In 9:
This is wilfully of one's own volition, because you want to, speak an untruth to deceive others. The truth is, life must be treasured and saved where possible when threatened. To know life is the greatest gift and not to protect it is to turn against the truth. We should not be fooled by words alone, which leads exactly into
12:
Because religions have not understood the truth, they have bound it in confusing and imprisoning words --lies -- within their religions, as if there is something almighty and Creational about words coming out of the mouth. They confuse spoken words with feelings and thoughts within one's being and use them to control people. Of course, when we can we should only speak correctly and exactly as pertains to what is. There are times, however, when grave things are more important than words. IMO we should always do as per the foundational creed of all doctors: first, do no harm, then do that which causes the least harm.

The truth of Creation is not bound by words. It is not what we say that is important in such situations, it is what is in our hearts, minds and consciousness; and there we are forever with the truth, because it cannot be any other way.

If an insane lunatic or fool approaches you with a gun and says, "Tell me the earth is flat and not round or I will kill you." Will you be foolish enough to think the words coming out of your mouth are more important than keeping your life, or will you pity the poor fool and just say what he wants to hear, thereby saving a threatened life. In saying the world is flat you have not lied: you have merely pampered a fool to save a life. If you thought your words were more important than your life you will have lived an untruth, and it will have cost you your life.

This is how I see it: The teaching requires study because the truth is not contained within words alone, but through meditation, feeling or having balance within the psyche, thinking, consideration, understanding and cognition of the wisdom of Creation.
Chris

Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.
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Kenneth
Member

Post Number: 590
Registered: 04-2013
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph,

"9. You shall never, never speak an untruth.
12. Never, never put Creation's recommendations and Creation's laws into unworthy cults."

I'm in agreement with you on this; do not see any contradiction on your part.

The GOTT is not saying to lie to save oneself; it's saying to:
-"in this wise and to follow their demand for silence and to keep the truth in yourselves,"...
-"maintain distance"...
-"keep quit about the truth, than to be slain"...

From my point of view, the Twelve Recommendations and the GOTT chapter 3 verse 202 go hand in hand.

This is not compromising oneself or lying for that matter.

Sincerely
Kenneth
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Kenneth
Member

Post Number: 591
Registered: 04-2013
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Msmichelle,

I was raised in a military / religious environment from a toddler on. Consequently it was always thought; (to name a few) that Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. were the good guys, so to speak.

From a religious standpoint, I was always taught that angels and seraphim were always near and if I praying hard enough, I would see them. Of course, I was also taught that everyone had a guardian-angel as well. Had Uncles that were church ministers and my Mother was a bible thumper.

When the path to the Truth and Billy's Teaching was finally revealed to me through an unlikely source of a U.S. Federal agent. I too went through a period of depression and despair, in a manner of speaking, because most everything that was understood up to this point was false and wrong. God was Human, OMG! The only person in my entire family network that did not believe in God, was my Father. He would drop hints of the Truth here and there, but mostly kept quiet about what he knew.

Then after much study of BEAM’s work, I recognized that Teaching of spirit, the teaching of life, the teaching of truth and therefore the teaching of the truth of the laws and recommendations of the primal power of all existence, Creation; was in fact the correct path, then there was a sense of exhilaration, joy and delight that cannot be put into words. So, I understand exactly what you are saying and where Joseph is coming from.

Sincerely

Salome
Kenneth
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Votan
Member

Post Number: 722
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Msmichelle

So now anything that is different from your thoughts is religious.
joe
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Kenneth
Member

Post Number: 592
Registered: 04-2013
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

Thank you very much, perfect. Have not seen this one.

"...a concealment of something is designated a lie or an evasive lie - which is also advocated by various other philosophers, is, in the framework of this reference, not correct."

"A lie or an evasive lie is, in every case, a conscious, untrue deception and statement for the purpose of one's own well-being and profit, and so forth. A lie or evasive lie is, and therefore always remains, a deliberate distortion of the truth for one's own advantage, and indeed also in regard to feelings and emotions..."

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_028

Sincerely
Kenneth
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 212
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew,
Why have I been brought to your attention?
I feel like I'm missing something. I get the impression that I've walked into a convention and have mistaken it for a party.
Please don't think me a waste of time. I like to think that I'm not a waste of time. I might not learn as fast as some people, and sometimes I might need directions, but I learn something about myself from a lot of people I come into contact with.
So please bear with me.
Thank you for your time.
Joseph
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 887
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kenneth,
Your post 591 could have also been said by myself. It is easy to fall into depression upon discovering that the life lived to date is swept away and one finds oneself without direction.
Hanging onto life, we eventually find the truth that is now out there. I experienced that depression about 50 years ago. It didn't last so long, maybe a year. Continual searching for the truth enabled me to get by more and more as I uncovered what truths I could.

Brought up strictly or devotedly in a religion one is almost bound to go through such an experience as the foundation for a new life devoid of delusions is built.

Joseph, I don't think you need to apologise for asking about negative matters. They are a part of life, and if we have questions about them it is right to ask. After all, so many avoid these questions because they are negative, so how is one supposed to know the answer!

I think the asking is best done in a neutral-positive or even just neutral manner, if the question is depressing one.
Chris

Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.
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Bronzedesk
Member

Post Number: 188
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pay close attention to the 3rd article on the subject titled "Should One Always Tell The Truth No Matter What?" provided for your further observation/conclusions on how thought and morality are applied to on this subject.

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_Bulletin_028#The_Near_Death_Of_Semjase

bronzedesk (Mat)
And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time.
~ T. S. Eliot
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Tyler
Member

Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2017
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cpl, that's a strange example to use, and I think not a very practical one. And being so impractical, it leads to a philosophical debate, not a practical one oriented on the truth.

In a more likely scenario, which Joseph brought up in the first place, of being confronted with a fanatic and whether it is better to lie to save ourselves or hold to the truth but face consequences ...

well, a practical example to that topic is just this question: what did Jmmanuel do?
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 888
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not sure what example you referred to, but it is often useful to use an extreme example because it makes clear what must be done and easily establishes the principle. Whether fool, madman, terrorist or fanatic it's basically the same. You don't "lie to save yourself" you say what will save your life because you must, or if possible you hold your peace, but the original example presented seemed to obviate the choice of silence by demanding a reply.

If you answer your question and say what Jmmanuel did it would be more useful for forum readers.
Chris

Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 213
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He remained silent.
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Andrew_grimshaw
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2017
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2017 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joseph,

All joking aside (I was half joking with your, "I know the answers to my questions", I know what you meant) I read the other day that you may not be in a hurry to study the Spiritual Teaching, but simply knowing about it now doesn't guarantee knowing about it next lifetime.
I have been studying the following for the last few days:
https://ca.figu.org/the-might-of-the-right-words-and-the-right-behaviour-.html
Well worth the effort to learn, and don't be worried about taking the time to fathom something and making mistakes.
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Andrew_grimshaw
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2017
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2017 - 04:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corey & Eddie,

I stand corrected and apologise for offending you.
I think that I might have misunderstood a verse in the Goblet and I can't find it right now.

There might be a small fortune to be made out of Koran dust jackets!
- The Silent Revolution of Truth -
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 890
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2017 - 06:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"He remained silent."
Yes, it might be the best policy, but it's not an option if silence is not permitted or considered an acceptance of guilt resulting in a death sentence. Such situations are not common now, but in the future it is just possible they may become more common.
Chris

Use to the full both the heart and head and never lose either.

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