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Corey
Member
Post Number: 99
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 07:51 pm: | 
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Tyler-rutland, In case your post #6 was directed at me, sure, let's discuss it.
When two human-beings meet, if each of their unconscious "meet" and briefly connect with each other energetically this = results in the two human-beings having the feeling of sympathy for one another (hence feeling "good-will" for the other person, and feelings of understanding toward one another, etc), or if their unconscious were not able to connect for whatever reason this results in = antipathy (which is the opposite of sympathy, i.e. there will be no feelings of "good-will", there will only be rejection of each other).
So you could say that a person, through their unconscious "scans" another person, and if there is a "connection" there will be sympathy, if there is no "connection" via the unconscious, there will only be antipathy and rejection. This is an automatic, and natural process.
Some of the point of Billy's meditation book is the concentrative-meditation of staring at a glass meditation object, blocking out all thoughts. The reason for this is one will connect with their unconscious through the act of pure observation of staring at a meditation object blocking out thoughts.
Another way sensitive human-beings "scan" each other is through the fine-fluidal radiations that are around our bodies, that are detected by the pineal gland (the ability for fine spiritual perceptions are the 7th sense, and is one good reason to be happy our natural selective evolution included = a pineal gland). Billy instructs one on how the fine-fluidal perceptions work in "Goblet" 22:30 (i.e. you may meet someone who is disheveled in their appearance, but you instantly know they are a good trustable person, likewise you may meet someone who is very well dressed, and "put-together", but you sense they are a bad and untrustworthy person), with more additional supplemental information on fine-fluidal radiations = 22:31-22:34.
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-Source for 6th and 7th sense = OM (Omfalon Murado) 32:117\\
-fine fluidal radiations are also known as fluidal forces, and one can connect with those energies through the subconsciousness in the next lives, as long as one wasn't cremated.
-There are vast differences between the unconscious, and the subconsciousness.
Salome/Corey Müske
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Andrew_hua
Member
Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-2013
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2017 - 11:48 pm: |
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Meier has stated in a Q&A that overcoming our ego is a prerogative in our lives, however, embracing our "inner nature" is also one such goal.
What exactly is our inner nature? Does it have any bearing on our personality? Is it even unique? How do we achieve individuality without contributing in some extent to our ego? |
Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 632
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 05:55 am: |
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Andrew, I love those questions!
Life
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Andrew_hua
Member
Post Number: 75
Registered: 12-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 12:20 am: |
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Michael,
What are your thoughts on this?
I get the impression that the spirit-form has a kind of "individuality", which is to say it is unique, however, Meier has said that there is no "personality" associated with it.
The "inner-nature" must be influenced by the unique spirit-form and its associated stored lived-experience impulses.
So, perhaps overcoming the ego is a matter of being able to step back from it and see it for what it is, rather than covering ourselves in it and allowing it to take hold of us. I suppose it would be impossible to completely detach ourselves from our ego, since it is connected with our personality.
To hazard an answer to my own query, I would say that the ego will continue be developed throughout life. As long as we maintain a clear view of ourselves, we'll be able to sustain our individuality, our inner-nature, while suspending or neutralising our ego. |
Msmichelle
Member
Post Number: 266
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 06:54 am: |
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Andrew...your post 75... it appears you answered your own questions
MsMichelle
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Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 636
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 07:22 am: |
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Andrew,
You've touched on questions I find fascinating. The fascination in meditation, of what is the self in this circumstance or that, it holds the mind's interest and makes meditation that much easier. We meditate on visualizations of light or symbols, for instance, or external stimuli: flames, sounds, environments, holding the mind to a point as a practice of self-discipline. When the mind is self-interested in the point we would hold it to, the tyrannical self-discipline required is lessened. So, finding the fascination makes meditation much easier. In my experience, the mind is always interested in self-definition, in identity. This fascination pulls our interest, rather than the ego having to push it.
Some questions, esp. those of identity, are best answered with healthy doses of "Seeker, know thyself!" We can offer hints to each other about them, but we have to figure these things out for ourselves as well. In agreement with Christian (CF), these are the sorts of questions I try to avoid answering on the FIGU forum precisely because I don't want to mislead people, and I'm not as versed in the Spirit Teaching as I'd like, certainly not as much as others who frequent this forum. The terms I use may not correspond very well with the standard set of terms used in the Spirit Teaching. So I feel I'm walking on thin ice by providing some of my own insights into the sense of spirit-self I've experienced. I'll do my best in adding something useful, and maybe you'll get something out of it, and maybe not.
IMHO:
The sense of individuality is wrapped in personality for a lifetime, but what makes us individuals is not the ego's personality, but rather our 'depth' or 'color' of individual awareness. Through experience, this is what develops our own unique signatures. As entities we share many perspectives in common, most of them really, which is how we can communicate in this existence, but the hollow sense of self, ever deepening yet never finding bottom, is not based on an egoic personality so much as on the self's fascination with life. The ego's personality of each lifetime forms around that fascination, but it's more superficial than the fascination itself.
Practice detaching from the ego is unnecessary since it happens naturally as the self learns to recognize other subtleties of existence. The ego naturally loses it's fascination for the self as we become aware of other ways to experience existence. Again, this is natural and normal, part of the process of the deepening of the self.
The personality and the ego should be developed, strengthened, well-known. Too many hippies want to relinquish the ego, to skip ahead and become 'one' with god and everything, missing out on so much of their journey. I hope I've shown a little how a strong ego is important to spiritual growth, i.e. to the increasing 'depth' of the self. We do have to keep in mind that the ego is not the self, but is merely a tool with which we interact, communicate, with the our mutual existence, however the process of developing the self actively involves building and using a healthy ego.
Hope that helps.
: )
Life
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Andrew_hua
Member
Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2013
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 05:31 pm: |
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Hi Michael,
Thanks explaining some of your thoughts on this matter.
Your advice makes sense; to look inwardly to find the answers that I seek.
I think you put it nicely when you say that our individuality is determined by the 'depth or 'colour' of our sense of self-awareness. I also see why the ego is essential to our existence, although we must strive to maintain a healthy activity of it.
But how do you understand the term "inner-nature"? Is it like the personality, but deeper? A true personality, rather than the superficial pseudo-personality of the ego? |
Michaelhelfert
Member
Post Number: 639
Registered: 09-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 04:10 pm: |
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Howdy Andrew,
I tend to think of the 'inner-nature' as that which is psycho-mechanistic. In other words, if a being suffers through an experience, that experience has an impulse-specific impact upon him, like it or not. In this way, though more than just in a negative-reactionary sense, the formation of the nature of the self is mechanistic. The 'inner-nature' of the self seems to me to be comprised of a whole boat-load of these impulses. Using the terms of my previous post (#636), the inner-nature is that which impels us to find fascination with various aspects of life.
I'ld be interested to hear what others think about this definition, and how well it does or doesn't correspond with the Spirit Teaching.
Life
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 158
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 12:45 am: |
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I can't explain what inner-nature means in terms of the spiritual teaching, but I have some experience of it, and I would say that your inner-nature is like your life in the world. It is something that can be nurtured and improved through focusing internally (such as thinking, writing and meditating). I'm amazed at how detached we can be from our inner-nature. It is like there's a whole other world we don't know about. Imagine how a wealthy man lives in the world. Your inner-nature, when nurtured over several years, makes you an internally wealthy man, your life becomes open and enriched like you've never imagined it before (the whole world and all people in it help nurture it by their very existence), and you'll gain peace of mind and happiness that no amount of wealth in the world will grant you. Were I to attach a single word to our inner-nature, it would be creative (diversity). |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 216
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 04:16 am: |
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Interesting to read this from Billy’s article: What is the True Self-love, and What is the Detrimental Narcissistic Ego-Love?
According to an old prediction, the human beings born after 1982 are the self-love-less generation of the recent past, and they are rather distant from a social orientation. Therefore there are more and more young persons, who develop few sustainable social relationships, who cannot integrate socially and who, in the end, ego-lovingly put themselves at the centre of attention.
This tendency towards self-lovelessness has already been drifting into the workplace for a long time, because it is no longer as communicative as it used to be. Today the human being sits lonely in front of the computer, and more and more, all areas of work are only controlled by one woman or one man at the computer. These firms lead to human beings becoming robot-beings, and that in turn leads to the complete wasting away of their abilities to empathise with others. Additionally more and more technical things in the surrounding world are developed, such as electronic media, mobile phones and computer games, etc., with which the human being, in the end, is often alone and becomes lonely. Furthermore many parents, based on their own experiences, are no longer able to raise their children in the right form. And in regard to a future professional success, very early on the children are trimmed to learn something that will bring in much money. This besides the fact that the same parents do not teach their children anymore to create self-love, and they do not stimulate them for it from a very early age. On the contrary, they teach revenge and retribution and that they shall have no consideration for other human beings.
I have always thought those born at the turn of the century were the self-love-less generation, as they grew up with the internet. But the personal computer and computer games started to become a prominent part of our lives from the 1980s with the advent of the Spectrum and Commodore 64 in 1982 and Amstrad CPC in 1984. These had an impact on many of us born a generation before, never mind those who grew up with them. So perhaps that old prediction is correct.
I look at today’s generation of youngsters and I see a generation that is detached from older generations. The social gap between these two has increased tremendously. It’s as though we are living in two separate worlds and can’t relate to each other anymore. The worst thing about this, in my opinion, is that a lot of youngsters nowadays seem to have no affinity for history. They are not just detached from the present regarding social relationships, they are also detached from the past, and I think this is dangerous, because when a generation turns its back on history, it is ready to repeat the same mistakes. I believe this strongly, and I see this in today’s generation of youngsters who are brought up with gratuitous violence in games and films, and live in a social media world disconnected from reality.
I’m glad that I was born before computers, mobile phones and the internet took possession of our lives (no, I’m not that old). But I’m old enough to remember what life was like before all of this and how we all still managed and got on with our lives. I don’t think these things are a bad thing, but there needs to be a balance and we haven’t found that. I guess it’s much like everything new that we embrace: we have a tendency to abuse it, and only by going to that extreme do we realize we need to readjust our lives. |
Justsayno
Member
Post Number: 796
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 10:05 am: |
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Yes back in the day we only worried about our neighbours listening in on telephone party lines and today we have to worry about the NSA and their overlords at the CIA not only listening but actually spying on us and having the ability to "take us out" if they choose. I will not give up my freedom of speech for them or anyone.
Good, better, best. May you never rest, until your good is better, and your better best.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 221
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2017 - 02:00 pm: |
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Is it possible to be strong in consciousness but to have a weak personality? Or is the evolution of one's consciousness a precursor to one's personality?
Some people, as I see it, are weak in consciousness (in regards to their evolution and their grasp of the spiritual teaching) but have a strong personality (a formidable ego, for example). If it's possible, therefore, for one to be weak in consciousness but to have a strong personality, is it not also possible for one to be strong in consciousness but have a weak personality (a timid ego)?
And if it is possible, what does it mean?
In the case of someone who is weak in consciousness, a strong personality can overshadow it and even hinder it. But what of the one who is strong in consciousness? Does a weak personality (for example, someone who struggles to assert himself) allow a strong consciousness to shine through? |
Redbeard
Member
Post Number: 288
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2017 - 06:48 pm: |
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It is totally possible to be weak in consciousness and have a strong personality.
Think of all the ego's around washington dc or hollywood. Huge personality types with absolutely no clue about the meaning of life for humans and no perception of spiritual meanings or any desire to learn..... kind of like most of my relatives. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 01:43 am: |
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Those terms are confused, but based on your own individual reasoning, what you wrote here is basically correct: "... is it not also possible for one to be strong in consciousness but have a weak personality (a timid ego)?"
However, personality = consciousness. They're the exact same thing, so your terms aren't correct. But your reasoning is correct, even though you used the terms incorrectly.
Here, I'll put it into the correct terminology so others can benefit from what your reasoned.
It's possible to have a high evolution of the overall-consciousness-block but still have a weak material consciousness, which means that it is possible to have high values of love, knowledge, and wisdom stored in the subconsciousness, however the material consciousness is still able to be too weak to let these values come to the full expression in the material consciousness.
What you called "a strong consciousness" is actually "a highly developed overall-consciousness-block" and what you called "a weak personality" is actually "a weak material consciousness". So, it is possible to have a highly developed overall-consciousness-block, and therefore live with a good general affinity for the spirit teaching, however while still having a weak material consciousness, and therefore suffering from timidness and shyness. And it is possible to have a lesser-developed overall-consciousness-block, and therefore live with zero affinity for spirit teaching matters, and yet possess a strong and robust material consciousness.
Here's a relevant verse from the Goblet (pg 437 of the English version):
"99) If you suppress or maltreat your body, then you do the same with your consciousness, as a result an evolution and a rise up to the truth is not possible anymore, because this gives rise only to a drastic hindrance that prevents any fulfilment of the task of your life; even the materialness of the body itself is affected, because the full power of the consciousness goes thereby lost in terms of its activity in the whole physical body, because
the consciousness-power, which must harmonise with the material body, is enslaved."
"99) Wenn ihr euren Körper unterdrückt oder malträtiert, dann tut ihr das gleichsam mit eurem Bewusstsein, folglich keine Entwicklung und kein Aufstieg zur Wahrheit mehr möglich ist, weil nur noch ein einschneidendes Hemmnis entsteht, das jede Erfüllung der Aufgabe eures Lebens verhindert; auch die Stofflichkeit des Körpers selbst wird beeinträchtigt, denn die Vollkraft des Bewusstseins im Hinblick auf dessen Wirkung im ganzen stofflichen Körper geht dabei verloren, weil die Bewusstseinskraft unterjocht wird, die mit dem materiellen Körper harmonieren muss. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 01:47 am: |
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Oops, the one paragraph should read like this:
"It's possible to have a high evolution of the overall-consciousness-block but still have a weak material consciousness, which means that it is possible to have high values of love, knowledge, and wisdom stored in the subconsciousness, however the material consciousness is still able to be too weak to let these values come to the full expression in the personality."
(The original paragraph I posted isn't false, because material consciousness is identical to personality anyway. However, this slight wording change should make it a bit clearer, what was meant. Insofar as it wouldn't just be more valuable to read the relevant verse from the Goblet anyway, since by the way verse 95 from page 437 also deals with the subject matter very much clearer.) |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 222
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 03:51 am: |
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Tyler,
Sounds like you're quibbling, but I understand the necessity to be precise in regards to the spiritual teaching and as a member of FIGU.
Thinking about my query and your reply, I suppose such contrariness is necessary for evolution, but perhaps not in all cases. I'm sure there are people who have a highly developed overall-consciousness-block and a strong personality (material consciousness).
In response to Redbeard's post, the same then must also true of a spirit with a highly developed consciousness block being reincarnated into a family of a lesser developed consciousness block. Or is that due to the overpopulated times in which we live? |
Redbeard
Member
Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 07:07 am: |
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It is possible to to have a personality that is suppressed, timid, subdued, or overwhelmed by people or our own fears. However all personality types are totally capable to be enlightened and strengthened by the truth but not all of course will choose the path of self responsibility that facilitates the application of the knowledge that in our case is contained in the teaching.
Once the person makes up their mind of any personality type they can be strong in wisdom derived from the knowledge gleaned from dedicated study and consistent self evaluation.
The ego is many times a barrier to this as we have trouble admitting to ourselves that maybe we don't know very much at all and that its okay that we don't. That alone is , in an odd way, is quite liberating for the person to empty the cup of erroneous information and the fill it with logic, truth and wisdom. Power for the personality will be the result, from a strong foundation. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 07:11 am: |
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It's just ideal in my opinion. And it lets there be a higher standard of board posts here too. Less carelessness and more precision leads to faster learning and less pointless disputing.
Plus it really challenges me to think through my posts, and so I learn and don't just ramble.
Me personally, I'm working my way up to having a strong material consciousness, and I was a timid weakling my whole life long, so I'm tired of that. That verse I posted above really got to work inside me. Who couldn't be excited to see themselves after cultivating their body and their material consciousness, and then getting to really have all those hidden values and essences of talents and strengths and capabilities stored in the subconscious blossom in the life? |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 07:21 am: |
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Actually, maybe I was wrong and being ausgeartet myself. I don't suppose another person has an opinion about this topic...? Maybe another earnest student?
Anyway, that's an interesting statement where you wrote, "I suppose such contrariness is necessary for evolution" but I hardly understand it. Can you expand that idea, so I can get a better sense of what you were meaning? |
Redbeard
Member
Post Number: 290
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 08:02 am: |
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I do like the 10th contact for teaching on the human and learning---
121. The human who adheres to Creation's laws is the most blessed and most fearless being. 121. Der Mensch, der die Schöpfungsgesetze befolgt, wird zum gesegnetesten und furchtlosesten Wesen.
122. His will is insurmountable, his dedication immeasurable and endless, and his wisdom and love are constant and perfect, not capricious and full of doubts, like it is the case with those who are dependent from religions or generally those who are led astray in some way. 122. Sein Wille ist unüberwindlich, seine Hingabe unermesslich und endlos, und seine Weisheit und seine Liebe beständig und vollkommen, nicht wetterwendisch und voller Zweifel, wie die der Religionsabhängigen und der sonstig Irregeleiteten im allgemeinen.
123. His mind resembles the wide, endless sea and does not let itself come out of its rest. 123. Sein Sinn gleicht dem weiten, unendlichen Meer und lässt sich nicht aus der Ruhe bringen.????
124. He does not tremble with fear. 124. Er zittert nicht vor Angst.
125. Therefore, the human may unfold his spiritual mind that is not anymore reached by any degenerated negative force; 125. Daher entfalte der Mensch seinen geistigen Sinn, der von keiner ausgearteten negativen Kraft mehr erreicht wird;
126. The mind which gives no shelter to negatively degenerated thoughts and supersedes all positively degenerated thoughts and actions. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 223
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 02:37 pm: |
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Tyler, you make a good point: "it really challenges me to think through my posts, and so I learn and don't just ramble."
What I meant when I wrote "I suppose such contrariness is necessary for evolution" is with reference to opposites. I recall Billy saying once (not in so many words, but more or less) that for a person to evolve he needs to be in direct conflict with his opposite. He said this in regards to relationships. But everything about our lives is relationship based, whether it is our relationship with another person, a friend, a partner, our employer, our work, Nature, or our relationship with ourselves. Existence is founded on the negative and the positive: that is the relationship, the conflict that makes evolution possible. And that's what I mean by contrariness. |
Tyler
Member
Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 01:11 am: |
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Thanks. That's really.. clear. |
Ilovebilly
Member
Post Number: 536
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 12:03 am: |
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Recently bought The Way To Live and The Psyche books, I am upto page 70 on The Way To Live and think it's the best figu book, Billy's writing is so important and calming, if you don't have The away To Live book make it a priority.
Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them.
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