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Archive through June 16, 2017

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Historeed
Member

Post Number: 149
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolyn,

You seem to be confusing religious thinking with the Spiritual Teaching. Nowhere in the Spiritual Teaching does it say humans are innately sinful or that we've "fallen from grace". Humans are 100% responsible for every thought, feeling and action they produce, so naturally we are responsible for the fate of the planet...thus we have the ability to rectify the problems as well.
Matthew Reed
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Eddieamartin
Member

Post Number: 784
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the spiritual teaching...

A little autodidact goes a long way.
Salome,
Eddie

In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Carolyn
Member

Post Number: 23
Registered: 05-2017
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matthew, I am not confused and personally I am tired of being talked down to, especially by males, as if I'm somebody with mental problems. I am 57 years old and well-educated with a Masters degree from a Canadian university. I'm not a crazy religious person who suffers from delusions. I'm an intellectual who considers what I read from an educated viewpoint and don't necessarily believe everything someone tells me just because I'm supposed to.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Tyler
Member

Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2017
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 07:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do that :-)

I feel pretty good today. Maybe I can make it clearer for you..

But, I need time to forumulate my answer, because it is not easy to write in a way that is even fathomable for me... because I have confused myself through disobeying the wise counsel and attepting to learn too much that my intellect could not grapple with yet, so today my head is filled with some terms that go beyond my ability to comprehend them - although fortunately, not too too many.

So maybe I cannot really explain it, but I do learn a lot from other books and materials. I won't say just what because that is my personal goods, but it's definitely doable.

In my own words, I would say that the spirit teaching just reveals how the universe fundamentally operates and teaches how to recognise good and evil to name a couple of things.

But it doesn't tell us how to form ourselves in life ... we're free at all times to be our own individual and form our character or our destiny how we like. We can learn from different sources... ways to feel, skills to practice.. ways to relate to others...

The spirit teaching, in my own words, is in relation to all of that, just the guarantee that even as we learn out of the so many possibilities in life and decide to form our character or our personality or our psyche in this or that kind and form, we don't stray too far from the fundamental harmony.. because that is what has made our world into such chaos and killing and terror and Gewalt.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 283
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would like to correct the wording in my last post where I quoted Kenneth: "you are having to go through this again because you gave up before in a previous lifetime" and "it's because I gave up before in a previous lifetime".

I didn't give up before in a previous lifetime, Carolyn, and neither did Carolyn, Kenneth. Of course, I understand what you meant, and in this respect I am quibbling, which I hate. But it's so easily done to mistakenly identify the spirit within us with our own personality. Our previous lives aren't OUR previous lives. Their the previous lives of our spirits, while we are in possession of them.

I thought I'd just include that in case anyone picked me up on it. Shame on you Kenneth for not checking yourself and letting someone like me to correct you. Who am I to correct anyone?
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Hugo
Member

Post Number: 413
Registered: 04-2015
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The way this discussion is going soon Meier and Figu will be attacked for providing the invaluable work and spirit teachings they are providing. :-(
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Msmichelle
Member

Post Number: 356
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolyn and Joseph, IMO, your post(s) suggest some type of Depression.
Neither one of you are "clear" when It relates to the Spiritual Teaching. Religious Delusion is in the forefront of your "Thinking".
Honestly, I would do a "cleaning" of your environment of religious doctrine. Attempt to stop "comparing" your "past education and experience" and consider "stepping" away from television, media, and step away from What you were Told or What You think You "know" and "Think" about what you're "Thinking" via "Meditation". Writing down Your "Thoughts" might help as well.

Good Luck
MsMichelle
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Historeed
Member

Post Number: 150
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 04:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolyn,

I didn't mean for you to take my comment personally. I just wanted to provide my opinion about how you are clearly misunderstanding the Spiritual Teaching. There are no common themes of sin in the Spiritual Teaching. This is simply true, it's not something I as a man have made up to offend you. Are we not here to discuss such matters? I apologize for offending you.
Matthew Reed
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Carolyn
Member

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2017
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 07:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michelle, I'm glad you can see we are depressed, like much of the world today, we don't see a good future for ourselves in this lifetime. So what's not to be depressed about. The Spiritual Teaching is good and true and we should try to follow it. However, even when we follow it we find ourselves living in relative isolation from "normal" or "ordinary" people. This isolation causes depression. Most people don't understand us and when we try to talk to them about better ways of thinking or living, they just brush us off.

Michelle, I'm not sure why you think I suffer from a religious delusion or where you got that impression? Please try not to judge someone you haven't met except in this forum!
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 284
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 04:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Msmichelle, you presume correctly. I have struggled with depression since I was a child. But I've already mentioned that in some other post. I guess it's fair enough that my understanding of the spiritual teaching isn't up to scratch. I don't really see it as a life or death situation. To quote Jmmanuel: “Truly, I say to you, if you suffer from hunger, thirst and nakedness, then wisdom and knowledge will be crowded out by worry." Metaphorically speaking, I currently suffer from hunger, thirst and nakedness, and it is for these reasons my thinking isn't clear. But I am my own project, and I insist on doing it my way, whether that leads me closer to the spiritual teaching or takes me away from it. I'll never be too far away, and I'm not in danger of being deluded, not at any time, because I'm not a follower nor an adherent, which leads me to ask why you think religious delusion is at the forefront of my thinking. I'm not even religious. What have I said that has convinced you of this? Which of my posts contain statements that in one way or another advocate religion or religious belief?

It's good that you understand enough to know that you should question what you were told and what you think you know and think, and that grounding your thoughts is extremely beneficial to your growth. Questioning and writing have been the main staple of my evolution. They have directed my thoughts and led me here. But "here" isn't the end of the road; "here" isn't the end of my journey.
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Eddieamartin
Member

Post Number: 785
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolyn

You said:
"The Spiritual Teaching is good and true and we should try to follow it. However, even when we follow it we find ourselves living in relative isolation from "normal" or "ordinary" people. This isolation causes depression. Most people don't understand us and when we try to talk to them about better ways of thinking or living, they just brush us off."

I now need to be blunt.

I get sick and tired of people claiming to study the spiritual teaching and posting these types of claims which are misleading and misinforming ...especially to people new to the forum and people seriously investigating the Meier case and the spiritual teaching.

You have clearly NOT studied the spiritual teaching.

TO THE FORUM

Please take the initiative to investigate the Meier case and more importantly the spiritual teaching (the books so designated by Billy himself). You will learn to better understand your life, the reasons why and how things happen and materialize in your life, it will provide its own evidence that you can verify and apply ...all of which will hand you control of your fate, live in a harmonious existence with yourself and others and will reveal the human nature and the reality that actually exists allowing you to truly live life to the fullest. Actually study the spiritual teaching and you will realize in this short paragraph I have only scratched the surface of the totality of what is revealed and learned from the spiritual teaching books.
Salome,
Eddie

In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Carolyn
Member

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2017
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now having been seriously scolded and reprimanded by I-don't-know-who-you-are-Eddie I am withdrawing from the forum for awhile to nurse my wounded feelings.

You don't really welcome anybody here, who's not already an "initiate". . . . . and in the fullest sense of the word. This group is a clique that I don't think I fit into.

I wish you well on your travels, Eddie-the-smartest-and-most-arrogant-guy-I-have-met-in-a-long-time. May Sfath in his great wisdom forgive me for I have truly sinned. . . . .
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 923
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you live the spiritual teaching rather than try teaching it you will never be isolated from others.

Being alone is not being depressed. As The Psyche points out, the latter derives from thoughts that need addressing.

One can finally be at peace by being alone. Correlation is not causation. We all need to be alone at times. Depression is something else. The Psyche excellently discusses this IMO. Anyone here who gets depressed might try reading The Psyche again.

"like much of the world today, we don't see a good future for ourselves in this lifetime. So what's not to be depressed about."
I have life; and that is magnificent. I also see it as our job to prevent the prophesied disasters and to create a wonderful future for mankind now, as far as we can, even if we should fail. That is what, one way or another at one time or another, is eventually coming to us. What's not to be excited about and grateful for? For me, life is too short to be wasted on being depressed.
As John Lennon sang, "Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting."

One of our challenges is to live in neutral positivity no matter how bad things get. If things are getting bad, it's time for us to make them good. Humanity, and our continually evolving spirits and overall comprehensive consciousness blocks (OCCB) will eventually inherit a truly magnificent future. I find the more I identify with my OCCB the more I look forward to that incredible future and the closer it seems. I think it is important to never lose sight of the goal; never take your eye off the ball, or your opponent. I always remind myself of where we are going and the future that my OCCB is going to inherit. IMO my OCCB is the important part of me, even my personality if I welcome its impulses into my life.

Winston Churchill once famously said (or I paraphrase), "When you find yourself in hell just keep going." When life is hard and we just keep going things eventually work out if we foster the right attitude. I look to the future and see dangers and threats, but a definite and magnificent time for my future consciousness development. What's not to like?

If you can't find anything to like,
read
The Psyche.

That last line is just a poetic reminder to myself too.
Chris

Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

-----
CPL: just a note that the word "comprehensive" was removed some years ago by FIGU, it is just known as the "overall-consciousness-block", or OCB for short. According to this, the OCB is created by the spirit-form, and is waiting in the storage banks of the death-world (Jenseits) to do it's dissolving of the old personality, and programming of the new personality. Perhaps you are thinking of the consciousness-block that will impulse your personality in the realm of this world (Diesseits), or have you read something that the OCB incarnates into the realm of this world?

http://dict.figu.org/node/156
Salome/Corey Müske
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Corey
Member

Post Number: 232
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CPL,

In your diamond of a post, you wrote:"I have life; and that is magnificent. I also see it as our job to prevent the prophesied disasters and to create a wonderful future for mankind now, as far as we can, even if we should fail." which I think is the wisest thing I have read in a long time, and I agree 100%.

I for one re-read Sfath's 1948 P & P's today and I made notes of the positive ones that we need to accentuate, and bring to life to counteract the negative transpirations to bring about the best possible future for us all. There will be some natural catastrophes that will be unstoppable. But we must survive, and still (amidst some natural disasters) overcome difficulties we encounter to gain mastery over them through our thoughts, to bring about a new reality in our doings.

Cpl you once wrote we need to be the best example we can be to outsiders over the next 20 some years, as these disasters kick in. I am bringing this to life in my life, through arduous study of the "Goblet of the Truth". My most prized possession is my copy of "Goblet of the Truth"/"Kelch der Wahrheit", and each time I read it, I become stronger in my realizations.

The key is in the thoughts, as GOT page 265 verse 7:194 states, one cannot bend the laws and recommendations of the Creation to one's will, as these are integrated into their own might. So, I think one has to find the flow of the natural, and adjust their thoughts to this flow, to match the beat of the universe, which is nothing more then the electromagnetic swinging-waves that are tuned to the human-consciousness. Unlike the religious waves, these natural swinging-waves are from the Creation universal consciousness, and these swinging-waves are integrated into the laws and recommendations of the Creation. Change the thoughts = change the man = one becomes what one thinks. Overcoming obstacles makes one stronger in one's resolve, and provides gleaned knowledge and wisdom. I wonder if this will be true for the collective Earth humanity, who has not learned to tame his/her overpopulation, considering what lies ahead? The difficulties from cause and effect will be obstacles..

~Whatever disaster sets in for my country, know that I will be out there, amongst my small clan of a family, trying to make the best of the fluid situation, tending to my garden (mastery over my thoughts), and reading my GOT until the end of my life. I have the overall feeling I will live to be an old man, which is a mystery to me considering the cause and effect that lies ahead the USA and my people.
Salome/Corey Müske
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Eddieamartin
Member

Post Number: 786
Registered: 08-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2017 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolyn,

What is not welcomed anywhere, nor by anyone, is someone who is lying.

It makes me sick to my stomach when I see people faking themselves as students of the spiritual teaching and posting misleading remarks and attributing them to the spiritual teaching.

There are chapter and verses that address these types of hypocritical people who disguise themselves.

We are adults here; don't claim something you are not... especially a student of the spiritual teaching and making attempts to mislead and misinform others.
Salome,
Eddie

In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Msmichelle
Member

Post Number: 357
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 03:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caroyln, intellectuals (i speak of myself)are the most difficult to get through when it involves changing our Thoughts and our Thought patterns.... We have been conditioned to Think a certain way since grade school and some of those Thinking Patterns are completely wrong....IMO, the criticism regarding abstract intellectuals are no different than religiously delusional people, because the Thinking patterns are the same.... repetition, memorizing, etc
For one day forget about the degrees, the certifications, the accolades, etc..completely ignore all of what you've been told and all of what you have been conditioned to believe.....
Sinful,heaven,depression,anxiety,fear are all derived from religiously delusional Thinking
MsMichelle
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Angel_acevedo
New member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2017
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 06:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also think and I know why my life sucks because I don't listen to my self I was taught and raised to listen to other people and go by their laws and their values and their understandings and I always neglect my own and even when I thought my way was right I allowed someone else to come and change my thoughts and my thinking and that's where I go wrong it's true about everything Billy is a saying he's a 96 billion years old spirit thank you Billy for giving me the truth
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 2703
Registered: 12-1999
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps we need to shut this entire topic down based on the comments which have been posted? From my observation, people are becoming more personal in their postings and less neutral and cannot stick to the topic without digressing into personal issues which leads to more off topic discussions and postings. Lets get back to the subject of thinking and thoughts and how it applies to our day to day lives. I do appreciate the efforts of some members who are making a conscious effort to stick to the new rules
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 285
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Msmichelle,

Please explain how people with depression, anxiety and fear are all suffering from religious, delusional thinking? Is this something you know from experience? Or perhaps you are a qualified psychologist? I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion. If necessary we can take it up under the topic The Application of Natural Logic, as that topic might be more appropriate than Thinking and Thoughts.

When I began writing this post, my initial reaction was to disagree with you, but I've since thought about my own background and now... Well, let's just say that I'd like to look at this line of thought more closely.
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Tyler
Member

Post Number: 106
Registered: 03-2017
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that what it is, is that with depression, our thinking is too negative, often purely negative, and so we cannot achieve a state of Ausgeglichenheit.

I have a lot of thoughts about what that means now, but I am not all that experienced enough because of my relative young age.

But I know enough German to be able to deconstruct the word. Shall I try that? It could be profitable.
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Cpl
Member

Post Number: 924
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reminder, Scott. I wonder if it's appropriate to discuss non thinking and having no thoughts on this thread, or should that come under meditation. I think I recall Billy saying having no thoughts is like a meditation. I often find myself at times of peace having no thoughts. It seems to benefit me in my life and help bring more clarity to thoughts when they do occur or are created. If appropriate, I would enjoy hearing more on this aspect of thoughts and thinking. Also, do thoughts occur to us, do we pick them up, or do we create them, or are some or all of the above correct? I think I remember reading that the power behind the thoughts or that leads to their creation comes from Creation.
Chris

Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Rarena
Member

Post Number: 764
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2017 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is an old saying by the spirit-form of our Swiss friend that says; Before attempting to remove the splinter from my eye: remove the BEAM from yours in other words we all evolve at different rates and the teaching of truth, the teaching of spirit and the teaching of life should be done happily, pleasantly and harmoniously Salome
I will always be as good and positive as my thoughts, feelings and actions actually are.

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