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Corey
Member
Post Number: 316
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2017 - 09:57 am: | 
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Votan (Joe),
Yes it's disheartening that so many people only live for the money and the material goods, which is why I like the Goblet so much, it teaches one cannot live solely for material pleasures, and one has to not be controlled by their vices/pathological cravings/urges, but control them. Already in the second chapter there is lengthy instruction on how to live.
And like Jmmanuel wisely said 2000 years ago, one cannot serve two masters at the same time, cannot serve both the master of mammon (and material possessions), and the master of the consciousness evolution, or something like that. I didn't take notes on it, but I wish I did.
Salome/Corey Müske. -"Goblet of the Truth" page 488 & 489 (theme of overpopulation and not following what is natural):
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27:62 "Ihr habt nur die Wahl, euch aus euren selbsterschaffenen Verstrickungen zu befreien und der Wahrheit der Schöpfung sowie ihren Gesetzen und Geboten Folge zu leisten – oder unterzugehen."
27:62 "You only have the choice to liberate yourselves out of your self-created entanglements and to follow the truth of the Creation as well as its laws and recommendations – or to go under."
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Corey
Member
Post Number: 318
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Friday, September 01, 2017 - 09:22 am: |
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Wisdom is the most precious thing. It comes from practical experience of knowledge put into usage to become yours. If you can become master of yourself, and slowly become more wise, it will go well with you.
Salome/Corey Müske. -"Goblet of the Truth" page 488 & 489 (theme of overpopulation and not following what is natural):
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27:62 "Ihr habt nur die Wahl, euch aus euren selbsterschaffenen Verstrickungen zu befreien und der Wahrheit der Schöpfung sowie ihren Gesetzen und Geboten Folge zu leisten – oder unterzugehen."
27:62 "You only have the choice to liberate yourselves out of your self-created entanglements and to follow the truth of the Creation as well as its laws and recommendations – or to go under."
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Corey
Member
Post Number: 319
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 08:56 pm: |
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The swinging waves on Earth that swing from human-being to human-being can be composed of the man-made and the unnatural. Between sports, war, religion, money and the rampant corporate consumerism, the rampant overprocreation of youth, and celebrity worship, the swinging waves of each of these are not lasting like wisdom, and these man-made waves penetrate into the consciousness of our people on this planet turning them into mindless robots who only follow the hype of the masses, not the calling of the true. Like a budding flower on a cactus in a desert far away from water, students of FIGU appear, and these students try to liberate their consciousness, and ingest something substantial (and lasting) such as truth, knowledge, the laws of nature, and the laws of the natural universe, perhaps the same discoveries the students of the FIGU wanted to make for many transpired lifetimes, but the FIGU of the new-time had not been founded yet.
For some students of the FIGU the calling is very deep, as was waited for for a long time. Now it has arrived. On to the future!~
Salome/Corey Müske. -"Goblet of the Truth" page 488 & 489 (theme of overpopulation and not following what is natural):
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27:62 "Ihr habt nur die Wahl, euch aus euren selbsterschaffenen Verstrickungen zu befreien und der Wahrheit der Schöpfung sowie ihren Gesetzen und Geboten Folge zu leisten – oder unterzugehen."
27:62 "You only have the choice to liberate yourselves out of your self-created entanglements and to follow the truth of the Creation as well as its laws and recommendations – or to go under."
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Corey
Member
Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 02:10 am: |
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Since the masses do not study the Creation and it's laws, it is then up to the individuals to carry it forward to empower the future.
Salome/Corey Müske. -"Goblet of the Truth" page 488 & 489 (theme of overpopulation and not following what is natural):
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27:62 "Ihr habt nur die Wahl, euch aus euren selbsterschaffenen Verstrickungen zu befreien und der Wahrheit der Schöpfung sowie ihren Gesetzen und Geboten Folge zu leisten – oder unterzugehen."
27:62 "You only have the choice to liberate yourselves out of your self-created entanglements and to follow the truth of the Creation as well as its laws and recommendations – or to go under."
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 330
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 08:54 am: |
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I just read an article called Might of the Music, which can be found here:
https://beam2eng.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/might-of-music_21.html?view=flipcard
The overall message is that "good music creates high cultures and through bad music high cultures are destroyed again." Ptaah then goes on to say: "In a good, positive phase, with regard to the music, times always prevailed in each case, which were peaceful, good and progressive. If, however, phases of negative, bad music arose, then the times were bad. With bad music, irresponsible rulers and other elements often seized the political and military might and instigated fights, wars and upheavals, like e.g. the world wars on the earth in the last century, therefore which were from 1914-1918 and 1939-1945..."
This implies that the music before and after these years were of a higher standard. I'll have to consider that more seriously, I think, as I'm quite fond of the war music. But then I'm also fond of the music created in the 1980s, which Ptaah says was the decade when music started to degenerate and has got worse since.
When I think of high culture I think of the Enlightenment period through to the Romantic period, when science and art made significant progress. Music was definitely at its highest standard during these times, and yet there raged the Napoleonic wars.
But the question I want to ask is can we influence the times by creating good music? Can a negative societal outcome be avoided if musicians raised their standard?
I realise that this is a hypothetical question and that it is more likely that the times influences the music rather than the other way round, but if people were aware of the might of the music, would it not be possible to influence the times?
Is this also relevant to all forms of art? Or is it just music that has this kind of power over the consciousness and therefore the world? When I think about how I write, my writing is very much a product of the times. But what is stopping me from consciously creating something far more wonderful, which may be considered ahead of the times, or an attempt to start a new cultural movement, or worse, something stuck in the past, neither of which would necessarily have any influence or social significance because the mainstream would have it so. |
Corey
Member
Post Number: 347
Registered: 10-2016
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 03:42 pm: |
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Joseph_E, I think without a doubt we can influence the times by making good music (for the consciousnesses of each man, woman, and child of Earth).~
Salome/Corey Müske. -"Goblet of the Truth" page 488 & 489 (theme of overpopulation and not following what is natural):
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27:62 "Ihr habt nur die Wahl, euch aus euren selbsterschaffenen Verstrickungen zu befreien und der Wahrheit der Schöpfung sowie ihren Gesetzen und Geboten Folge zu leisten – oder unterzugehen."
27:62 "You only have the choice to liberate yourselves out of your self-created entanglements and to follow the truth of the Creation as well as its laws and recommendations – or to go under."
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 339
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 02:50 pm: |
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Some time ago a discussion was held between myself and other members on this forum regarding the danger of putting one's life at risk for the sake of the truth. The Goblet of the Truth has this to say: "...and never be foolish enough to throw away your mortal (earthly) life because of the truth, because it is better to be quiet and silent and to keep the truth only in you so that your adversaries do not bring you affliction and do not endanger your life".
While watching a film I was reminded of this discussion and thought I'd bring it up again to make a point. The film was about Virginia Woolf and the Bloomsbury group. It tells about a time in history when social and domestic repression was common. I speak chiefly about homosexuals. For a long time they were silent and kept the truth inside themselves, but for many, if not all, it was a painful repression that forced them to live a lie and, in some instances, take their own lives. Now no one today would agree that it was a good thing, but was it the right thing? In keeping the truth to ourselves, wouldn't we also be living a lie? What if we are forced to be someone we are not? Keeping silent is one thing if one is left alone to live truthfully, but keeping silent only to be made to live against the truth, that is something else, isn't it? |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 1335
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 07:00 pm: |
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> Meier has pointed out that a person can be free within themselves even in a jail cell. External circumstances may often be brutally hard but that is no reason to give up the inner freedom, joy, etc., which of course needn’t be expressed, displayed, etc., when it would be dangerous to do so. |
Carolyn
Member
Post Number: 48
Registered: 05-2017
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 07:58 pm: |
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It is never wrong to stay silent, Joseph-Emmanuel, particularly when to speak would be either to injure others or to injure yourself. I think today there's far too much emphasis on fulfilling personal desires in the public forum, as it were! Used to be sexual matters weren't discussed much, and people didn't pry into one's personal affairs the way they do in modern times. People were more discreet, and usually homosexual "couples" were tacitly and without judgement just accepted. You knew that the men lived or travelled together (or women) and that they didn't have wives or children, but you didn't judge them harshly for that. Sexuality didn't used to be front and center of peoples' lives. Rather it was quietly lived behind the scenes. People didn't talk about it.
Now, in these modern times, sex seems to be the main topic of conversation in most circles. . . sex and money dominate most peoples' lives. This has led to the over-sexualisation of our society, so that people who don't participate seem odd, out of place. There are people, many people, for whom sex is still an uncomfortable conversation topic, because they (rightly) regard their sexuality as a private matter. I am a person who will never discuss sexual topics with anybody, and the people who know me know this about me, and never bring the subject up. I and many people like me regard sex to be a private matter between myself and a loved person, and nobody else's damn business!
You don't need to march in Pride parades and wear the rainbow flag on your shoulder to be in a happy relationship with someone of the same sex! I think it's far better to be discreet about sexual matters, than to flaunt your sexual preferences in front of people who might be offended by whatever you decide to do in the privacy of your bedroom! Sex is a private matter, and it should not dominate anybody's life! In the modern age, every child is being raised to be sexual as early as possible and this is having a terrible effect on the child's development, as these children are missing out on the best part of being a child. . . . that you don't have to think about sex and can enjoy other people without dealing with sexual pressures.
Again, silence is "golden". You will never suffer for maintaining your silence. Let people wonder about you! You do not have to go out and proclaim to the world how important you, as an individual, are! Most people prefer someone who maintains a bit of silence; they tend to avoid those persons who are strutting around telling everybody 'who they are' ad nauseum.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 136
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:30 pm: |
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To my understanding, that has to do with deciding whether to openly announce the truth to others, or whether we let the awareness of the truth radiate in our inner world only.
An example I can think of it, if I am seeing an animal be mistreated by someone who would also murder any who raise their voice against it, then to keep silent about the truth means to keep the truth alive internally myself, but just don't announce it or announce that I know the truth.
So it would mean witnessing the painful thing and feeling for the victim, but if speaking out would only result in a senseless death, then it would appear to br better to hold my tongue and just experience the feeling for another without throwing away my life in a senseless death. |
Tat_tvam_asi
Member
Post Number: 683
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:04 pm: |
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Hi Joseph,
Often a research of known (historical) facts may help us find an answer:
It seems that sometimes a highly developed human so highly values the truth, seeing a need for society to change towards it and give up deeply rooted traditions, that this truth becomes more important for him than his own life:
Socrates comes to mind ...
He was charged with corrupting the minds of Athens’ young men and denying the Greek gods.
He died true to his principles, retaining his full dignity.
He may have done so to give more authenticity to his teachings – expressing a desperate need for Athens’ society to change. *)
But from the attitudes of the further incarnations of the same spirit form we may conclude that to continue life should be man’s highest priority:
With the unjust killing of Socrates in mind Aristotle fled Athens after the death of his student and sponsor Alexander the Great … “I will not allow Athens to sin twice against philosophy!”
After Galileo was found of being “vehemently suspect of heresy” by the pope because his theories (the sun was in the centre not the earth / earth orbits the sun not vice versa) went against bible teachings **) – he retracted them rather than being a martyr for the truth.
The evolution of our spirit forms progresses in stages to what accords with universal laws.
So we may conclude that the actions and words of Aristotle and Galileo are a further development to the insights held by Socrates...
... thus corroborating the advice given in the Got: “… and never be foolish enough to throw away your mortal (earthly) life…”
Salome,
Bill
*)
We should see Socrates’ teachings and his trial on the background of the Peloponnesian War (431-404 BCE) which Athens, the previously economically and culturally leading power, had lost and many people – young and old - were seeking for the knowledge why this could happen.
**)
... which were commonly held by most Greeks and supported by Aristotle |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 340
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 04:40 am: |
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Michael Horn
And that's what's so easily forgotten or not understood because we have so little control over, and little understanding of, our consciousness.
I would have known that before the turn of the century. I still know it, but I forget it because now I get so involved, emotionally, in what is going on in the world.
We have to rise above ourselves to succeed, while at the same time struggle against the ongoing battle to change the world for the better. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 341
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 09:32 am: |
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Thanks Carolyn/Tyler/Tat for your replies. Michael Horn really said it best, that a person can be free within oneself no matter how unjust the world is.
However, I would still argue against the reasons given because my query concerns being made to live a lie, not simply keeping silent.
What if you were forced to worship a false god?
What if you were forced to kill in the name of religion?
What if you were forced to take part in an unjust act or custom?
What if you were subjected to being brainwashed (with modern technology)?
What if you were enslaved knowing you would eventually be killed?
What if you knew mass genocide was taking place?
Do you still keep silent? Do you still do nothing?
It all seems rather cowardly to me to say nothing, to do nothing.
Tyler, I see you chose to give an example with an animal being mistreated, but what if it was a human being being mistreated?
Should we all keep silent about the injustices in the world: the slavery, the child abuse, the rapes, etc., if our lives are threatened? |
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 821
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 11:35 am: |
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Joseph_emmanuel
Those are good questions.
Through nature (Creation) we learn that every thought, deed & action has results (consequences).
Through wisdom we learn that there is a time for everything (law of the contrariness).
So the question is not "IF" we should "do nothing" ...but rather "when, where and how" we should do something.
Nothing can be done about an injustice or a wrong if we are killed by attempting to do something at the wrong time, place or manner.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 845
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 02:03 pm: |
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Tyler
That is a hard question. I would not risk my life but at the same time I would not stand by and do nothing.
Time will come when we all have to do something.
joe
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 137
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 02:31 pm: |
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I don't know, Joseph. I want to say no because I have a hot temper and hate to see any thing or creature suffer.
Pergahps it really is not as valuable to die in honour as we raised ourselves to believe.
Whatever the answer, though, in my experience you won't be so likely to find it out unless you're in a situation. So philosophising every conceivable hypothetical scenario is not really worth your time, if you will pardon me saying it because it's really your life to decide what to do with it.
My example was just meant to show how it is possible to remain silent without betraying the truth, not to say a difinitive answer to this or that hypothetical scenario.
Because I have begun to think more and more that we have to just learn to use our own judgement of the benefits vs risks, and make up our minds what to do in the moment based on the impulses that are put into our consciousness and subconsciousness as we read and study the Goblet. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 342
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 04:22 am: |
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Eddie, well said: "Nothing can be done about an injustice or a wrong if we are killed by attempting to do something at the wrong time, place or manner."
Tyler, thanks for that more honest reply. |
Msmichelle
Member
Post Number: 397
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 06:17 am: |
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I agree with Tyler, post 137
Joseph, you have great questions and I suggest when you ask those questions:
Go outside and ponder
Mow the law, pick up trash in the neighborhood, plant flowers, trees, wash dishes, etc
In other words, Silently Ask the Questions and Remain Silent within Yourself for the Answers
Over Thinking Plagues all of Us
MsMichelle
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Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 1337
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 09:20 pm: |
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Michael Horn Live!
New on-air Q&A about the Billy Meier UFO case
http://theyflyblog.com/2017/10/12/michael-horn-live/ |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 344
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 02:38 am: |
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Thank you for all your responses. What I'm getting from all this is that the spiritual "perspective" seems to be indifferent to human life, and perhaps that has something to do with the bigger picture. We are all valuable as individuals spiritually, but only insofar as each individual life is necessary for the evolution of each individual spirit. Subsequent lives put our current lives into perspective. It is from that perspective that we need to view our lives, which isn't to say that we should be indifferent, but rather that we should not laud ourselves beyond spiritual recognition. We are not gods that the world should stop when one of us falls. |
Carolyn
Member
Post Number: 49
Registered: 05-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 08:00 pm: |
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Joseph_Emmanuel, you always need to ask yourself these questions when you witness abuse: How are the abuser and the abused related? What caused the relationship of abuse between the victim and the victimizer? Is it my place to interfere? Is the relationship of abuse working out old problems on some level I do not understand? Abuse is rampant throughout the world today, and has been for many thousands of years. Is this an Ausartung arising from actions of souls tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago? Am I in a position to arbitrate abuse? Do I have enough knowledge of the situation I am witnessing to act as an intervener, to take a side, to defend the abused and even at the risk of losing my own life or health?
Then follow some more questions you must ask the "master" within: Is this really my business? Your spirit/soul will know the answer. Do I really love the victim? Or am I simply horrified witnessing a scene I don't really comprehend? Am I the victim or the victimizer? Who is the victim and who is the victimizer? Do I know either of these people personally or not? If not, then I must not take a side. Should I intervene on principle only, because of a moral idea of right or wrong? Again, your inner master, your spirit/soul will have the answer.
If you continuously ask yourself questions about the situation that bothers you, you will come up with a final and inevitable answer, based on your spiritual knowledge that is stored within your being. You will know the ultimate reason why you should or should not intervene. When you have reached the final answer, then you will act, regardless of the consequences, and without doubting your decision. But the questions need to be asked first, and the answer pursued until you are sure of your action.
For my part I can give the following certain answers to your questions:
I would worship any god if my safety and the safety of my people required it.
I would never kill, unless it be with poison or a poisonous thought with power to kill.
I do not take part in many customs of our society, including the killing and eating of living creatures.
If I am brainwashed I analyse it until it doesn't have any effect on my psyche anymore.
If I was enslaved with the purpose of murdering me I would attempt to make friends with the enslaver. If this didn't work, I would starve or find a way to end my own life.
I do know that mass genocide is taking and has taken place, and I will not attempt to intervene. That is a matter for the people involved and their societies to sort out for themselves.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Msmichelle
Member
Post Number: 400
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 08:59 am: |
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Carolyn post 49, IMO, is filled with religious doctrine
MsMichelle
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 139
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 11:21 am: |
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I don't think that living spiritually means to be indifferent to human life, or toward any life.
I actually think that it aids to deepen feelings for others quite greatly, whereas a human who base their goodness on the fact that they would recklessly help anyone ends up being burnt out and ends up apathetic and does not really care at all in the end because they live in the positively ausgeartet form of heroism which has gotten very badly out of control of the good human nature. |
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