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Cpl
Member
Post Number: 960
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 04:30 am: | 
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It is not all bees that die when they sting. Only female worker honeybees, which is most honeybees, that die when they sting a mammal -- and only a mammal. They do not die when they sting other insects or predators. They sting when they feel threatened, and their role is to protect the hive and the Queen bee. They do not know they are going to die when they sting a human. It is their usual natural defense mechanism. So, for the worker honeybee, this is self-defense without, of course, the intent of any death -- even should death occur.
"They do not intend to harass us and cause pain at the first opportunity. Honey bees usually sting in a selfless act of defense of their colony and occasionally as a self-defence mechanism because they have been physically trapped or caught up in some way. In fact, bees will tend to gangrilyh buzz around anyone or anything that comes too close to the colony and will resort to stinging as a last resort."
Sorry Chris, "Non-FIGU" Links are not permitted.
(Message edited by scott on October 15, 2017)
Chris
Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 847
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 02:29 pm: |
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Cpl
Thank you for that info about the lives of bees.
joe
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Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 823
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 08:21 am: |
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To kill in ausartung, the degeneration (ausartung) has already occurred.
Ausartung doesn't happen 'because' of the murder ...the murder is what happens because of the ausartung.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 147
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 08:07 am: |
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I think that the law of elimination could be more easily compared to putting a criminal onto an isolated island.
They are then "eliminated" from society, ie. excluded, so then they can work on themselves and get their swinging waves back into step with the creational motions.
And to my understanding, killing in Ausartung throws us back down because it causes the love we have created in us to be destroyed by our own hand. Because how can love and wisdom exist where a creature is barbaric and murders the life or psyche of their fellow living creatures?
It is absurd to think that love exists where a creature is killing either the life or the psyche of another creature, so it makes sense: killing in Ausartung destroys the evolution of the human who kills the life or the psyche of another living thing, because it means they have destroyed the life of another, and so they reap the destruction of their own evolution. Perhaps this is the real meaning of "an eye for an eye" - ie. if a human kills another in Ausartung, then they also destroy their own evolution in Ausartung, and therefore receive what they doled out to another.
Then the love has to be built back up and it takes time and new patience, because the love is not just school knowledge. It has to do with getting the swinging waves of the personality to evolve upwards to be in line with the activity of the creational life, and to be in line with the virtues.
Isn't it absurd to say that a human loves justice and freedom if they are killing in Ausartung?
It is a thought to consider for me as well as whoever reads this post, and not a claim to being superior. |
Hugo
Member
Post Number: 463
Registered: 04-2015
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 02:33 pm: |
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MH wrote - "Well, Carolyn, I think you should let Carolyn speak for herself and not put words in her mouth."
Yep!
Carolyn has two accounts and forgot which one she/he was using? |
Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 783
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 10:39 pm: |
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Eddieamartin,
When you said; "To kill in ausartung, the degeneration (ausartung) has already
occurred.
Ausartung doesn't happen 'because' of the murder ...the murder is what
happens because of the ausartung."
That's debatable; those that have served in the military will see ausartung happen in many different forms. It's not that black and white.
Kenneth |
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 825
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 06:55 am: |
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Kenneth
To kill and to murder are two different things.
Being ordered to kill or compelled to kill in the military is a matter of the psyche being affected and thereby the potential for the consciousness to be adversely affected.
Ausurtung is a degeneracy in the very character and Being of the human being in that this personality derives a certain joy, fulfilment and/or satisfaction in murdering.
This is in respect to having lost all the evolution in the present life and having to "start-over" as if from birth.
This is why the creational law of the elimination recommends that these fallible ones be separated from society (imprisoned) and provided with the conditions to study the spiritual teaching for the remainder of their existence.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Carolyn
Member
Post Number: 54
Registered: 05-2017
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 07:18 am: |
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Hugo it is true that I have an account in the German forum, but not a second account anywhere in the English forum.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 353
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 07:30 am: |
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Tyler,
I dont say that you reason falsely, and I certainly dont dismiss what you say. I think when one kills in ausartung it does destroy ones love... to a degree. I have admitted as much when I stated in a previous post that such an action would impact one's consciousness negatively to the point that it would undermine the progress one has made in one's life. But I do say that the argument you are putting your whole weight behind, rather naively I might add after acknowledging that it is new knowledge for me too, and something I also can take to heart, doesnt hold up.
Why would you take it to heart without questioning it? What do you know that no one else knows? Have you experience of killing in ausartung that you can speak so assuredly of the law of elimination? Have you experience of the law of elimination in some other area of life that doesnt involve killing? Without such experience how can you have any real knowledge? Knowledge without experience is a half-truth: Scotts link to Phaethonsfires posts about the Kybalion states that. Now you are using Patms explanation about isolating criminals as a comparison, despite the fact that Patm, in his post, has contradicted all explanations so far about the law of elimination, including yours. No one has responded to that yet.
I accept that killing in ausartung will throw us back in our progress. What I dont accept is how far it is claimed we are thrown back. I just dont see how that is possible. I dont see how ones entire progress in ones current life can simply be erased. That implies that in some instances Creation is regressive.
Lets consider that for one moment. If Creation, in some instances, is regressive, then it must also hold true of Nature. But where in Nature does Nature go against itself? Perhaps natural catastrophes such as volcanic eruptions and earthquakes are a kind of ausartung. Can these events be considered regressive? They certainly throw nature back and it can take many years to recover itself as a consequence.
I dont know. Maybe Ive got it all wrong. Maybe the laws of striving and balance are also at work here. If theres a forward motion, there has to be a backward motion. But that still doesnt explain why all evolutive progress is eliminated.
Evolution is learning. How can killing is ausartung reverse that? I can see how it would interrupt it; that is also like being thrown back. In life one can lose ones way and take a wrong turn, which could lead one back, but the path one took is still there.
You ask how can love and wisdom exist where a human being is barbaric and murders a fellow human being and suggest it is absurd to think that love can exist in such a person. But it does exist. It is stated that the law of elimination only affects ones current life and that the progress one made in previous lives is not eliminated. Therefore love exists in such a person... to a degree. |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 354
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 07:34 am: |
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Some hours have passed now since writing the above. Ive been going over the law of elimination in my head. How is it possible? Why all progress? Why not just some progress? Blah! Blah! Blah!
I have also been rereading the FIGU article Killing in Ausartung and the Law of Elimination and I have just realised something. All the while I have been thinking of killing in ausartung as actually killing another human being I think we all have and we have been considering the law of elimination from this perspective. But all negative, unfriendly behaviour towards another human being and oneself, such as being impatient, pushy, bullying, arguing (the degenerative kind), shouting, threatening, etc., is considered killing in ausartung.
There is no mention in this part of the article, written by Vibka Wallder, about being thrown back in our evolutionary progress to the beginning of our birth. It just states that we will be thrown back. Reverting to the evolutive level which we had at the time of our birth is only mentioned in connection with killing another human being, which doesnt answer my question why all evolutionary progress is eliminated, but it does suggest that the law of elimination is relative, or are we to assume that when we are impatient with another human being and start arguing with him, we will throw ourselves back in our evolutionary progress to the beginning of our birth?
I think not. In fact, what it says is that we hinder our evolutionary progress. Hinder, not eliminate, and yet we are killing in ausartung.
I think this article is a simplified explanation of the law of elimination. Clearly killing another human being will have drastic consequences on ones life and affect ones consciousness more negatively than bullying someone or being impatient with oneself. But the whole thing about being thrown back to the evolutive level which we had at the time of our birth, this is what we can expect at the extreme end of the law of elimination; after all, when one kills in self-defence one is also burdened with the effects of ones actions. It just depends on how one deals with it, and I think that is the key.
If ones evolutionary level is low and one kills in self-defence, the law of elimination can potentially throw one back to the evolutive level at the time of ones birth, but if ones evolutionary level is high and one kills in ausartung, then surely the law of elimination will have less influence. It depends on how one deals with it consciously.
Of course, you can ask why would one kill in ausartung whose evolutionary level is high? But then it is naive to think that only primitives and ignorant people kill for the wrong reasons.
Now when I think of it, we are all guilty of killing in ausartung. |
Carolyn
Member
Post Number: 55
Registered: 05-2017
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:11 am: |
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There is an ancient law, as old as the universe, which forbids the taking of another life. Nodokemion is right in remembering this law. If someone takes another life without just cause, his life is automatically forfeit. Even if he doesn't die right away, the life force in him recognizes his "sin" against the life of the other, and begins to shut his life down. This is one of the natural laws of the universe, which existed from the very beginning of time.
Now on the earth, with the confusion of "just" and "unjust" wars, in which millions are killed, the law and the manifestation of this law has become somewhat blurred. The outcome or result of this law, is that everybody's lifespan has become very short, that everybody is subject to death from killer diseases, viruses, bacteria and fungi. Humans cannot extend their lifespan here on the earth because they are collectively guilty of murder to the extreme degree. All their societies sanction war for political or economic purposes, and justify the murder of other people for political or economic reasons. THERE IS NO JUST WAR, FOR ALL WAR IS MURDER. In every war, innocent people are who lose their lives in the cataclysm of violence which follows.
This is why the rule is not flexible and does not make allowance for so-called "just wars" and justifiable murder. Even to kill in self-defence is doubtful. The Universe may or may not judge in favour of the victim.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 784
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 09:15 am: |
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Eddieamartin,
To kill and to murder are two different things. // This is why the creational law of the elimination recommends that these fallible ones be separated from society (imprisoned) and provided with the conditions to study the spiritual teaching for the remainder of their existence.
Well said. That does make more sense, and logical as well.
Thank you
Kenneth |
Votan
Member
Post Number: 848
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:43 pm: |
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I wonder how some of these law enforcement officers feel when they kill people.
In some circumstances it is not self defence when if they are good enough in their training they could have only wounded and not killed the person.
Either way when they walk around like some gun slingers in the old west, with pistols in their holsters,they are asking for trouble.
Why not hide the weapons like it was before.
joe
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Votan
Member
Post Number: 849
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:54 pm: |
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Tyler
We all have in our make up a nasty gene that influences our killing behaviour.
It is the flight or fight gene. Apparently it was put there by either the Bafath or some other aliens.
Only when that is eliminated then we will not have the impulse to kill.
We can all have the urge to fight and perhaps kill in the process but it is only a split second urge which some of us can control.
I did ask Billy what happens to people like Hitler and his comments were that in the next life he will not remember his actions.
joe
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Hugo
Member
Post Number: 465
Registered: 04-2015
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 04:13 pm: |
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Carolyn, oh ok. You were just talking about yourself in the third person. I didn't know what was going on. That's why I asked. |
Tat_tvam_asi
Member
Post Number: 685
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 07:28 pm: |
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Creation has no vindictiveness
We should never forget to see life -individually and globally - in its true, universal aspect.
Which is, to use all the impressions of our life, to immediately create a balance between the negative and the positive:
Billy writes that great mistakes are required for great achievements.
And the greater the mistake, the greater the possible achievement.
So it is natural that human beings, becoming aware of their great mistakes, develop quite naturally a greater urge to bounce back to the sense of equality and balance that underlies all laws of nature.
As an excessive pendulum swing to the negative is complimented by an equally strong pendulum swing to the positive it may take some time to establish the right balance:
Some Samples
(1)
After WWII, when Germans learned about the millionfold killings of Jews by the Nazis they were - for many decades - struck by great guilt.
Today many will blame the German government for welcoming so many refugees to their country and it truly may be overdone and wrong.
But when I see the overall history of Germany it is quite clear to me that a ruler of the generation that followed the holocaust would have a great (though some may say naive) desire to repair the evil of the past, to show that Germans are not barbarians.
(2)
We may be disgusted by the sexual perversions of those that came to Earth 389,000 years ago and the highly intelligent scientists surrounding Arus (ringleaders). We may wonder why Arus, a great scientist himself, was so vile, ausgeartet and barbaric.
But did not Kenneth correctly state that a soldier that had to kill, becomes a different person to those that know him?
The Plejaren soldiers, fleeing an inhuman, barbaric, cruel war 389,000 years ago, Arus scientists put into the role as leaders for a barbaric dictator, ordering intrigues, lies and killings on a daily basis am I to blame them for their Ausartung?
Arus, himself, who had to grow up in a hate filled world, study - Spartan like cheat and survival tactics on Alpha Centauri who is to god-like judge the deeds of man?
Yes, Billy and the Ps. tell us that most Earth humans carry the genes of an ancestral father who belonged to Arus group of scientists and that their other 50 % is from a mother that had as well some ET genes (be it from Sirian overlords / exiled Lyrians / exiled Atlantis citizens, survivors become savages from Pelegons race etc).
But neither Billy nor the Plejarnen discuss much, express hate or explain our present excesses with these roots.
They simply tell us that we live in a world of Ausartung.
A world of religions that admonish us to be super-good (good in Ausartung) in a world of super bad excesses (bad in Ausartung: overpopulation / GH Effect / Nuclear Arms Race / 8 people owning as much as 4 billion fellow humans etc.) causing excessive natural catastrophes.
To "create peacefully", to create a peaceful world, religious leaders should listen to the simple advice given in Genesis
"The equalisedness of the consciousness is the prerequisite for all creative thinking and acting."
Thus, I cannot but repeat my advice to employ a compassionate spirit:
That a person that experiences remorse / regret about his past should not hate himself but immediately when he recognizes his mistake, determine to use his excess/degeneration/Ausartung to warn/teach his fellow cosmic beings not to fall for the same mistake.
By being helpful in the evolution of others, he is indeed doing so to himself.
And most importantly, his inclination to seek - in all his thoughts and actions - the accord with the universal laws of Creation and the balance inherent in all of them, this inclination will give him the powerful unity and support of all Creation.
Salome,
Bill |
Votan
Member
Post Number: 850
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 07:36 pm: |
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Carolyn
You are wrong on all comments.There is no sin as creation gave us free will to decide all our actions.There is love and there is hate, we decide what action we take. Every one of us is different and we interpret what is right and what is wrong.
Material law is decided by people that have no idea about creational laws. As you know if you have the finances you can get away with murder and not be prosecuted.
Billy stated that killing in self defence is allowed.Would you let the other person kill you just to prove that it is not right to kill. I do not think so.
joe
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Cpl
Member
Post Number: 961
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:41 pm: |
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Scott and Votan,
Thank you for the feedback.
Carolyn,
The universe does not judge; people judge. The universe or natural law may establish balance but that is not judging. It is just the following of natural law. Human beings may conclude this to be a judgement if they do not see the natural law in process.
Chris
Use fully to the best both heart and head and never lose either.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 357
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 03:16 am: |
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Votan,
The article Killing in Ausartung and the Law of Elimination has this to say about mass murderers:
...if a human being becomes a mass murderer he/she is so far removed from the creational-natural laws that he/she would need many lifetimes anyway to reach a point where evolution takes place at the normal pace, because the negative murder impulses, that are stored in the storage bank, will affect the next personality in the next life. The next personality may act on those impulses if a similar situation arises or will have to work hard to resist those impulses that could compel it to kill in Ausartung again.
Going on the assumption that the spirit form which embodied Hitler is now reincarnated, it would be fascinating to know who the next personality is. Jean-Claude Juncker perhaps? Born 9 years, 7 months and 9 days after Hitler killed himself. I'd bet my money on it. If you look at them next to each other, they look very similar; not that reincarnation works that way. But who knows. |
Carolyn
Member
Post Number: 56
Registered: 05-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 06:35 am: |
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Joe/Votan: Personally if I were attacked with the intent to murder me, I have no defence. I own no gun, nor knife, nor other weapon of protection. If someone wants to kill me with a weapon in an act of aggression, I have no defence and would not be able to kill that person to prevent him/her from murdering me! I do not know HOW to kill another person. Unlike some earthlings, I have not been schooled in aggression, nor how to defend myself against aggression. There are many people, who do not know HOW to kill anybody.
For these people even killing in "self-defense" would not be conceivable, because they don't know about killing.
A time for every purpose under heaven
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Tyler
Member
Post Number: 149
Registered: 03-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 04:54 pm: |
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I am just trying to use my reason and sound judgement to learn and work out how the laws of nature actually work, and I think I used reasonable enough words that make it clear that those are my own thoughts.
I do pay attention a lot and in my daily life have observed what I believe is the finer-than-coarse-matter happenings of my material-consciousness. Also I am partly blind. The whole thing is very delicate in my experience, and I don't understand how it works exactly but I have "seen" my own inner world illuminated just a bit by wisdom, and hae also "seen" it without.
If the starting point is the amount of inner illumination that I had when I began, then I want to die having attained even a little lasting wisdom, in the hope that my inner world will be more illuminated at the start of my new existence. Semjase said in the introduction explanation that wisdom is like light, and that's what I experienced when I looked at the squirrel one day. I just understood the creature by looking at it, like its whole idea in Creation was open to me and I could instantly understand it beyond my brain's reasoning.
To me, that part, which is to say growing in wisdom so that our mind sees perfectly clearly in an instant what our dumb brains would take days to figure out, is the Ziel of living, and if I kill in Ausartung it will vanish because it just is so. So sei es.
But I don't know if it takes a long time to get back to that point although I reckon not, because I think we often overestimate how much we have really truly evolved anyway, and take a bit of wisdom and mistake it for all-encompassing.
99) If you suppress or maltreat your body, then you do the same with your consciousness, as a result an evolution and a rise up to the truth is not possible anymore, because this gives rise only to a drastic hindrance that prevents any fulfilment of the task of your life; even the materialness of the body itself is affected, because the full power of the consciousness goes thereby lost in terms of its activity in the whole physical body, because the consciousness power, which must harmonise with the material body, is enslaved.
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Shark_life
Member
Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2018
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2018 - 02:47 pm: |
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Hey Andrew,
I am over here if you still want to talk about the law of elimination. This law is so much more than just a foundation for the creational recommendation to take criminals out of society and place them away on a island.
On the Figu Australian site there is a wonderful article titled, "Killing in Ausartung and the Law of Elimination." https://au.figu.org/killing_ausartung.html
Here again the author brings up the Decalogue/Dodecalogue book and examines the 6th recommendation, "You shall not kill in Ausartung."
374. Also, if you kill lower animal forms and plant forms for the daily procurement of nourishment; you are not guilty of killing in Ausartung, because you have been given various lower life forms that shall serve you as nourishment.
375. However, if you kill at a time of your choosing and according to your free judgement in Ausartung, you make yourself guilty of killing and succumb to the law of elimination.
But this does not necessarily have anything to do with sending prisoners to deserted islands. As Bernadette Brand, a core group member, states "If a human being kills in Ausartung, thus according to his/her free will and without necessity, then all evolutive progress is eliminated, which he/she had made in the current life. That means that he/she is thrown back to the level which he/she had at birth, and therefore to the level before his/her education and therefore his/her actual evolution began. Therefore he/she must once more begin to build up everything anew at the level which he/she had when he/she came into the world provided he/she even accomplishes that and finds a new beginning, which is rather uncommon. But even if he/she finds a new beginning it will be difficult for him/her to get back to the level which he/she had reached before he/she became a murderer, which is also connected with the psychical burden of the act. Naturally it is quite different with effective self-defence, whereby of course it is also burdensome and can show some terrible effects if it is dealt with wrongly.
So the law of elimination never means that the Creation is punishing or passing judgement, but rather that the human being DOES THIS TO HIMSELF. The human eliminates his own progress by overgrowing his mind with grief, hate, regret, sorrow, remorse, ect., that there is little room left to contemplate Creation and the laws and recommendations. Plus there is the psychic backlash from the might of the thoughts of your victims: "382. Through an unfriendly behaviour you arbitrarily awaken - in someone to whom you show the unfriendliness - feelings and thoughts, which stand in contradiction with the loving desire of the Creation, and precisely these are poison-filled plants, which in big haste overgrow the ground of the senses and threaten to suffocate the creational seed, which is placed in every life form, and soon you yourself are the one who speaks against the love and existence of the Creation, without initially even having any inspiration of the subconsciousness, because first of all you commit this unconsciously, triggered however, through your previous conscious wrong-doing.
Best regards,
Anthony |
Shark_life
Member
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2018
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2018 - 06:03 am: |
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Correction from last post:
"Plus there is the psychic backlash from the might of the thoughts of your victims:"
This sentence should have been, "Plus there is the psychic backlash from the might of the thoughts from your victim' surviving loved ones and friends:"
Obviously when a person is dead they can't think anymore. I meant the backlash from all the surviving who are now directing thoughts toward the murderer. |
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