| Author | Message | ||
    Hugo Member Post Number: 900 Registered: 04-2015 |
Kenneth, Why do you think people stocking up now on physical gold and silver to survive the coming currency crisis is counter intuitive? | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 804 Registered: 07-2006 |
Belinda, See: https://creationaltruth.org/FIGU/Spiritual-Teaching/In-Everyday-Life/Desiderata Hope this helps PatM | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1160 Registered: 04-2013 |
Hi Hugo, I maybe did not explained my thoughts clearly. It is my understanding that in the Contact Report 251 statement, the Plejaren are saying that all experiments of a cashless society by Earthlings will fail because Earthlings use gold, silver, platinum, etc., in an “underground”, parallel or gray market, in which commodities are distributed through channels which, while legal, are unofficial or unauthorized are used in place of fiat money. “A gray market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market") refers to the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer...” Contrary to what intuition or common sense would indicate for us Earthlings, the Plejaren made clear what may at first seemed counterintuitive to me. If we Earthlings are to help the Plejaren help us Earthlings, would not using gold, silver etc. for a coming fiat currency collapse be against what the Plejaren recommend? So, my question, what other means of survival is available for acquiring goods, if gold, silver, platinum, etc., is not recommended. The only thing that I can think of is bartering, “exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money.” Are we back to trading for instance, a goat for a bushel of eggs or other food stuff? It is just a question that I have, since many are acquiring precious metals in case of a fiat currency collapse. Best Regards Kenneth | ||
Felinity Member Post Number: 91 Registered: 09-2019 |
Yes! Thank you PatM. I needed that explanation at the bottom. Max's version is like a closed flower, but Billy's version is like an open, vibrant, radiant flower. Thank you Billy for your enhancement. Desiderata means a lot to me. Liebe und Frieden, Belinda | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1292 Registered: 08-2004 |
As you know, Kenneth, gold, silver and copper, the so-called precious metals, were for thousands of years the money of our world, due to their relative rarity and intrinsic values on an international level. They were the foundation of the paper trade which spawned from it and which we live with today. When that paper goes, people will revert back to the previous system of using truly valuable items to trade with and use as money. Many things have been used as money in the past and in the future many of these and even new items may be used as money. Salt, sugar, tubes of toothpaste, bars or boxes of soap, boxes of tissues, toilet rolls, or even batteries (though these have use-by dates) could likewise be used for small purchases. But if you wanted to buy a car, you could use a box, or several rolls of, gold coins, or several kilos of gold or platinum for larger purchases. Gold would become more valuable as a trading medium and what car manager would not accept a liquid (easily portable and tradable) box of gold coins for a car. Simple, efficient, done; and you have privacy that card users lose and have on hand something you can readily trade: it becomes money again. We know transactions like this would happen, because looking back just a few years we saw people buying gasoline in the US at a number of gasoline stands with so-called junk silver (old US coins containing real silver). The writing is on the wall here, and the would-be financial controllers must know and feel apprehensive about it. This is how the cashless system would/will fail, because the alternative system of "bartering" with precious metals, stones, gems, and objects people value, brings back greater privacy when purchasing goods than even exists now. Hence they will have no alternative but to ditch their attempt. Naturally, the process of attempting and failing will not be comfortable, but again, the fear created will merely make the alternatives more valuable resulting in more people using and requesting them. The other future metals Billy mentions to be used may well be the rare earth metals (REMs) that have since come onto the market. Some of these bring a good price in small quantities, and so like gems and jewels could be very useful. To their credit as future trading money they can also be carried around less conspicuously and unrecognised. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1293 Registered: 08-2004 |
Eddie, you wrote: According to the CR; "in the near and distant future earthly man will still be trapped in his thinking of money". So simply abolishing money will not do the trick. It is the thinking that has to be addressed, because people want to live like the wealthy. I would just add that people also want the freedom to purchase and trade as they wish rather than to be totally controlled in those aspects, which is what would happen in our current society without cash and where "authorities" would decide how much of their "money" people can use and where. The cashless society is not moneyless: people's money just becomes owned by private or government financial institutes that would then control people's lives. The ones who most want all the money are the "moneyists", a term I think Jim Rickards first coined for them. Moneyists are the people who trade and work with money instruments and produce nothing of any value and who think and want to control all the money. It is these who think and live in money terms alone, producing no real work, they just wallow in the luxury created from their manipulation of money instruments through every fraudulent form of money they can think into existence. Meanwhile, the general public think more of money in terms of how they can get enough to buy their necessities of life, and a few things with which to relax and recuperate. The moneyists are essentially the financial heads and leaders in the money world. They are a horrendous example of how people should be using money; they don't even invest in businesses but merely manipulate the monetary instruments and values that they think into existence. They are the many headed hydra that will collapse the global economic system, as Billy has outlined, through their insane and fraudulent forms of monetary speculation. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1161 Registered: 04-2013 |
Hi Chris, Thank you for your wise words and taking the time to clarify my query, I recognize this as well. Refining my original question of, “…what other means of survival is available for acquiring goods, if gold, silver, platinum, etc., is not recommended…//…since many are acquiring precious metals in case of a fiat currency collapse.” We know that the Mind, body, and environment are one, our mind not only influences our body but our environment as well according to Contact Report 440, where it states that a thousand people can change the collective consciousness with meditation, neutralizing negative effects. Likewise, my understanding is that the Plejaren live in a cashless society, they do not use precious metals or gems for trade or monetary status. Maybe I am getting too deep? Nonetheless, the Plejaren may have dropped a seed of wisdom stating that, paraphrasing; the Earthlings cashless system will fail because of the use of precious metals, gems etc. for trade and greediness… So, enhancing my question, how can we evolve into a cashless system like the Plejaren use, eliminating greediness. Do more people have to be involved in the cashless system as demonstrated with the meditation of a thousand people for it to succeed? Your statement and excellent point: “This is how the cashless system would/will fail, because the alternative system of "bartering" with precious metals, stones, gems, and objects people value, brings back greater privacy when purchasing goods than even exists now.” Subsequently, the answer may be as simple as, we Earthlings may have to trudge and hobble through this current and future capital monetary episode of haves and have-nots to eventually get to that goal of a cashless society, as with the Plejaren. There may not be a way to accelerate this progression? Salome Kenneth | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1294 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Kenneth, It is a fascinating question and I don't think you are getting in too deep. One thing that I have never found clarified is that despite the Plejaren never use money they do not seem to all have equality of possessions. Why not and how do they come to possess what they do? One Plejaren for example has a version of every vehicle produced on Earth, the others obviously do not. Of course, the vehicles are freely viewed (shared?) by anyone who wants, but they seem to belong to him. I tend to envisage a collection like one sees in the Las Vegas hotels that patrons are free to view -- but not drive! If those vehicles do not belong to him, he did come into possession of them and others didn't. How? He obviously didn't purchase them, or did he actually purchase them on Earth somehow, as Semjase or Asket occasionally purchased things here. He drives these vehicles himself and would, on Earth, be seen as very wealthy, but is not seen that way on Erra. Their perceptions and values differ fundamentally from those of people on Earth which obviously require great improvement. Surely other disparities of ownership must exist on Erra too, although it is in no way a problem for them. They have personal effects and books. These cannot all be equal in content, volume, or quantity. Do those who from their enlightened aspect want more because they have good use for more have more? I find the explanation of how they come to acquire and keep what they do incomplete and would love to hear greater elucidation on this. It might help people of earth refine their value systems. Necessities and ubiquitous objects and machines are freely available, but what about other things that the Plejaren appear to have. Does everybody just collectively make available any and all odd objects that anyone wants? Did everyone supply the wherewithal, whatever it was for the vehicle owner to acquire all that he did? That wherewithal wasn't money but would we term it money, money being merely the medium of exchange. Or was it Earth money? Of course, all basics are supplied by factories and androids, and such a level of development may be necessary for us before we evolve to being cashless. Perhaps the Plejaren do not talk about it because they would rather we think less of things and more of the spiritual and goodly humane qualities, and perhaps because they know we will eventually naturally evolve out of our present system. The latter seems a given to me. Always a pleasure to discuss with you, Kenneth. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Getknowledge Member Post Number: 231 Registered: 04-2008 |
Everything is free on the P’s planet, everyone just has to put in a certain number of hours of various work. Tien | ||
Hugo Member Post Number: 901 Registered: 04-2015 |
Kenneth, I understand what you mean now. Cpl, That's good advice that I agree with. Precious metals have always been used as a hedge against inflation, especially against fiat money. Russia and China see what's coming and have been stockpiling as much gold as they can get for over a decade now. When the powers that be try to ban cash so they can be aware of all transactions people make so better to tax and control them, people will flock even more to precious metals to have some anonymity from their governments, thus causing a big rise in the price of precious metals as there is a finite amount of them. | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1162 Registered: 04-2013 |
Hugo, Chris, It would be advantageous for the powers to be to have already considered gold, silver, platinum, etc., being used as a hedge against the collapse of fiat currency. Those in control of the monetary system would just make owning precious metals illegal. I has happened in past history, it can happen again. "The limitation on gold ownership in the US was repealed after President Gerald Ford signed a bill legalizing private ownership of gold coins, bars, and certificates by an Act of Congress, codified in Pub.L. 93–373, which went into effect December 31, 1974." Look up the article, "When Owning Gold Was Illegal in America: And Why It Could Be Again." Updated Dec 06, 2017 Kenneth | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1399 Registered: 04-2011 |
Chris Quetzal's car collection - my thoughts: I think he may not physically take the cars away but make a 3D (holographic ?) image of each car, which lists not only the shape but as well the properties/materials (the metals, plastics,etc.) used and then creates (via their one of their "multiplicators" = 3D printer-like) copies of them. If I remember right - he changes as well the cars' fuel system so that they can run on a different energy source. In any case - Quetzal still has some of the "collector habits" that are very common among the terrestrial human race. | ||
Matthew Member Post Number: 173 Registered: 03-2011 |
Re. Quetzal's cars. There's a contact report that explains the Plejaren have gemstones of their own to buy Earth goods and also Quetzal's cars and as they don't extract oil from Erra, there's enough of it on the surface to run his cars. Serious car collectors don't retro mod. Whilst there are many bad things that can be said about Earth humans, the concentration of different and ancient peoples originating from different systems on one planet means we are at the forefront of innovative design and probably uniquely so in the Universe, which may also be why it is said that our future design and technology will surpass anything known up to that point. The car is a good example of our achievements in this regard. Matthew | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1295 Registered: 08-2004 |
Kenneth and Hugo, There was a very specific reason why gold was "confiscated" in the US in the early 20th century and that is because gold was money and Roosevelt wanted to devalue the dollar, which was gold. The only way that could be done was to call in all the gold. Gold is no longer money, or the currency so why would it now be called in? Also the billionaires have their gold to protect themselves as they always have. So it is unlikely to be called in today. Having said that, I do foresee a certain possibility for that if the nations' currencies collapse and a new international financial order needs to be created. The governments and central banks, IMF, or World Bank might call in as much gold as possible, or outlaw possession of it again to back the new system because gold has provided the stability from which currencies can arise with the requisite level of confidence. If this call-in should occur, by the time it happens however, gold will have risen considerably from where it is now due to the international financial mayhem and so would likely exchange for a decent sum of new currency since the call-in price would be quite higher than now. To be correct, gold was not "confiscated" in the early 20th century, people were paid for it, but because it was being devalued to finance Roosevelt's New Deal, being the currency of the day, people lost 40% of the value of their gold when exchanging it, as was required, into the new devalued currency. It was just a way for Roosevelt to make a boatload of money for his programs, and it worked because at the time gold was the national currency. It is conceivable that in the future gold ownership could be outlawed so that governments and financial institutions could load up on it under emergency provisions to back a new system and new currency or currencies, but even if devalued at that time it's value afterwards will likely still be multiples of where it is today. We are, after all, looking at a truly dire financial situation for that to happen. However, would the moneyed class even want that; they hate gold in public because they cannot manipulate it like they can fiat forms of money. Getting gold out of the financial system enriched the moneyed class beyond their wildest dreams. The last thing they would want is for it to re-enter, although under the dire circumstances it might be necessary and get the green light. I think with this discussion, we, or at least I, am drifting too far off topic. Although we have been relating this discussion to the Plejaren and their system of possessing things and how and why they avoid money. We know they have used gems to trade for money to help Billy in the early days of their interactions with him. They also do, we know, indulge in galactic trade, which if not lubricated by money may be a process more akin to bartering. However, we have few, although probably sufficient, details on the topic. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1296 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bill, Are you sure it was Quetzal? I could be wrong, but I always thought it was someone whose name we do not know. The collection of cars is real enough as the person drives them around in a certain place on Erra, and, as you say, on different types of fuel. Yes, they do not seem to have driven out the acquisition mindset. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Kenneth Member Post Number: 1163 Registered: 04-2013 |
Ref: Car Collection: Years ago, I also read a report that if I remember correctly is was Sfath that also had a locomotive train engine collection. That report stuck with me as I always wondered how in the world did Sfath transport locomotive engines back to Erra? Looking for that report. Bills thoughts of a multiplicator that was used to copy these items sounds logical. Kenneth  | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 40 Registered: 04-2020 |
A comcept known as "barter currency" has been implemented several times in the past during hard economic times such as during the Great Depression. The premise is simple enough and goes like this: Two parties enter into a barter transaction. If one party doesn't have something of equal value that the other party wants, they may agree to accept an "IOU" instead. The "IOU" is the barter currency. That person in turn can likewise offer that barter currency (IOU) in a different barter transaction with someone else and that person has the option to accept or deny the barter currency as in any other barter negotiation. But its value becomes obvious in that in a bartering framework, it will not always be the case that both parties will have something of material value that the other wants. The small town of Tenino, Washington has already issued a variation of "barter currency", called “supplemental currency” to assist them during the tough economic times of the pandemic. Known as “Tenino Dollars” they are printed on wood using an old printing press in the local museum. The process is quite successful on a local and small scale level and the town had successfully done it before in the past.  People and businesses have bartered since before money was invented. Organized barter, trading with the participation of an exchange system, originated in Scandinavia after WWI. In 1934, during very difficult economic times, a group of business owners in Switzerland organized an economic circle cooperative, another term for a barter exchange, called WIR, the German word for “we”. It met with immediate success and today is the oldest and most successful barter system in the world. However, WIR did encounter serious difficulties along the way. Fortunately, the system was able to make the adjustments needed to survive and thrive. WIR’s history and major events are outlined in an article that appeared in WIR Magazine in 1994 by Heidi Defila, “60 Years of the WIR Economic Circle Cooperative” translated by Thomas Greco.  Similar complementary currencies exist elsewhere in the US and Europe, aimed not at replacing the national money but supporting the local economy -- a key distinction since American authorities take a dim view of anyone trying to create a bill to compete with the almighty dollar. In the US, the first barter exchanges were formed in the 60s. During the 60s and 70s barter operators marketed their exchanges by presenting and promoting barter as a way to do business without paying taxes. Eventually the regulators became involved and a number of people were convicted on tax charges and, in 1983, an IRS ruling declared that barter dollars were taxable as US dollars. About the same time another ruling declared that barter exchanges were authorized third-party record keepers. The Barter Network is a commercial trading network of companies in the United States founded in 2006 and has grown to over 700 companies. These companies trade among each other using a medium of exchange called a trade dollar.  In times of economic collapse, temporary "barter currencies" such as the model of the Tenino Wooden Dollar, might fill that vacuum as a medium of exchange on a local community level. Regards Bob | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 7 Registered: 07-2019 |
I don't think it was Quetzal who has a car collection, but another Plejaren. It does not make that Plejaren materialistic, he just likes to collect things that are different. It can't be soon enough when money is abolished. Next to cult-religion, overpopulation it is one of the major 'evils' on this planet. It literally inhibits development of any kind. Take for example the combustion engine, a technology obsolete for many, many years but still exploited up to this day so it can generate money. Paper with ink on it, given a certain value in the minds of people. Without money, economics and human greed as we know now, development would go much faster, obsolete things and procedures replaced quickly and effciently. | ||
Hugo Member Post Number: 902 Registered: 04-2015 |
Phi_spiral, About that "barter currency" during the Great Depression. Do you think that could happen again in this coming depression even though people's thinking and environment has changed since back then? Also, during the Great Depression nations/people were nowhere near as multicultural as they are today and as such they had a stronger sense of belonging to each other then they do today. My grandfather told me that if we ever have another Great Depression that he would be worried because back then people helped each other, they worked together to survive it through, but now with people being so selfish and so mean to each other, he said it really worries him what could happen. I think he could be right. People's thinking and environment has changed a lot since the last depression. | ||
Matthew Member Post Number: 174 Registered: 03-2011 |
Re. Car collection on Erra / "Museum of earth vehicles". The info about Quetzal owning the car collection comes from Randolph Winters' book, which is likely to be an error... 'The Pleiadian Mission: A Time of Awareness' "Visiting the Pleiades Beyond the garden was another interesting-looking building that had special interest to Quetzal. He had taken advantage of his travels to many worlds ad started a collection of different kinds of vehicles. There were many cars. bikes, and trucks from Earth, as well as many other travel vehicles that were very unusual and strange to Billy. Quetzal had over a hundred strange contraptions in his little museum and took great pride in understanding all of them. He often worked on them and kept them in good running condition." Other info doesn't support this... 'Die Wahreit über die Plejaden' (1 Oct. 1996) by Billy Meier Page 170: 'Fahrzeuge beziehungsweise Fluggeräte' [Vehicles or more precisely, flying devices] When here the talk is about vehicles, a unique attraction on the planet Erra must also be mentioned. It deals with an “Earth vehicles museum”. At a giant barren area several hectares big, there is a gigantic freely suspended hall built up, into which are exhibited all the wheeled and tracked vehicles ever built on Earth. Under it one finds also duplicates of unique prototypes, which were built by artisans on Earth and have never become public, but which the Plejaren have thoroughly examined and rebuilt. Models however, that were built in large numbers through production lines, have found their way from Earth to Erra, through the laborious efforts of the museum owner which came here to acquire each and every one. The museum initiator cherishes also a most particular hobby, which consists in taking excursions through the wilderness, by himself or accompanied by friends, with a vehicle of earthly origin, which he modified for the purpose, with a normal Plejaren propulsion unit, so that no poisonous gasoline or diesel fumes are emitted to the environment. This vehicle is his special pride – an earthly 1978 Land Rover." The above was reiterated in... 'And Still They Fly' (Page 26) by Guido Moosbrugger "Finally, I would like to call to your attention to yet another unique attraction on Erra concerning a "museum of earth vehicles". Every one of the wheeled and tracked vehicles ever built on Earth is exhibited there in a huge area of several hectares. A special experience for the founder of this museum consists of taking an excursion in the Wilderness during his free time with nothing other than an earthly Land Rover from his own collection!" Additional info from Billy... "Tony Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:40 am: Hi Billy, on page 26 of "And Still They Fly" it is mentioned that the Plejarens have a "Museum of Earth Vehicles" on their home planet Erra. It says that every wheeled and tracked vehicle/car that was ever built on planet earth is exhibited here in a huge area of several hectares. My question is how did the Plejarens aquire all those vehicles without purchasing them with Earth money?. Where did the Plejarens get all the vehicles from, and how did they pay for them too, without shortchanging anyone within our monetry system? Thanks. All of those vehicles were bought on Earth. He used terrestrial money which he received, among other means, by selling gem stones. He did not steal those cars, nor duplicate them." http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/6175.html "Michael_d Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 10:27 pm: 4.) Alleging that the “Museum of Earth Vehicles” on Erra contains every wheeled and tracked vehicle/car that was ever built on Planet Earth... How is it possible for the Plejarans to buy every wheeled and tracked vehicle/car ever built on Planet Earth without having earth human contacts and without misrepresenting their true identity? Using androids representing themselves with fabricated identities? What you don’t know, but will learn now, is that this “Museum of Vehicles”, as you call it, does not show vehicles only which were produced during the last 150 or so years, but encompass all means of transport from the first invention up to today; from the first wheel of stone, chariot, bicycle, etc. up to a Ferrari. The man who is collecting those vehicles is a friend of Quetzal and has the same passion as had his father and forefathers. This collection goes back thousands of years. The vehicles were bought with gold, rubies, money etc. etc., either by androids or by the collectors themselves (who were protected by their security devices)." http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/6520.html#POST21783 I do remember Billy asking about oil (but thinking now that this was in regard to oiling the moving parts of Earth vehicles in the collection) and someone clarifying they obtain this from the surface of Erra but I can't find the reference now. Matthew | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1297 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thank you for your excellent comprehensive review of the available material on this vehicle museum topic, Matthew. Much appreciated. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 41 Registered: 04-2020 |
Hugo: "About that "barter currency" during the Great Depression. Do you think that could happen again in this coming depression even though people's thinking and environment has changed since back then?" Hard times has a way of bringing both the best and the worst out of folks as we are witnessing now with the pandemic. I think barter currency has great potential at the local level where people are close enough to interact in person within reasonable travel distance. Even the Wir Economic Circle does not extend beyond the Swiss border. The Tenino Dollar works well because the town is small and where familiarity and trust is already present. There is a local Co-op, or cooperative, in my town that uses chips like in Las Vegas to make transactions for local farm produce, home-made goods like candles, arts & crafts, etc. and they meet in an open air environment with aluminum frame and tarp canopies once a week on weekends. There are open-air flea markets all over the country that could expand or evolve into bartering markets. But you're right, the success will depend on the personalities and will of the people. There is a resiliency - a survival instinct such that if folks need to make it work they will. However, business transactions, purchases and commerce on the internet is entirely different and would still need to be done electronically in some form or fashion. By the way, Hugo, you have an interesting name. Do a search on "Hu" as a sound, the Om Aum Hu mantra and even just the Hu chant. Just some thoughts. Regards Bob | ||
Hugo Member Post Number: 903 Registered: 04-2015 |
Phi_spiral, thanks for the info about my name! |
