| Author | Message | ||
    Patm Member Post Number: 825 Registered: 07-2006 |
Actually when the spirit-form evolves to the point of no longer needing a human-body, consciousness, conscious-consciousness-block nor overall-conscious-consciousness-block, they will all begin to dissolve (this is the'High-Council' level) after which the spirit-form will no longer re-incarnate. The spirit-form will then join other spirit-forms in a "We-spirit-form" when it enters the Arahat Athersata pure spirit level to continue its evolution. Please see: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Public/Documents/Teaching%20Script%20-%20Question%20001-sec.pdf PatM | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1442 Registered: 04-2011 |
Very interesting - Thank you, Pat. One question, though: I think Billy mentions that the spirit is pure creational energy which is neutral and does not store – different to the consciousness - any thought or feeling. So, when your scripture speaks about the “evolution of the spirit form" it only refers to a higher (more spiritual?) frequency of the creational energy? So we may think of it this way: After a 40 to 60 million years period of material world life the human’s overall knowledge and the wisdom (that forms from this knowledge) has increased to such an extent that the spirit’s very fine high frequency radiation (that radiates energy, power and love) causes the physical human body to slowly dissipate/disintegrate. *) To me it sounds like a state of deep meditation Is this correct, Pat? Salome, Bill *) zerstrahlen = disintegration by radiation The German “zer” is a derivation from the latin “dis ” (ca. 800 AD German: zir like “zirgan” (today: “zergehen” (to “go” (more and more) into “destruction” ) “zirfellen” today zerfallen (fall apart) they all indicate a destruction. So “zerstrahlen” is a verb that describes a process like e.g. nuclear radiation – but in the context much less violent, of course. | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2020 |
Hi Pat Before the spirit-form merges into a WE-form, the consciousness block merges with the spirit-form from where it was created. Here is some additional information from Billy about the Spirit and the Comprehensive-Consciousness-Block (CCB), roughly translated from a reader question in FIGU Bulletin #44, August 2003. "... The comprehensive-consciousness-block of humans is attributed to a conformity with creational law, however it is not integrated into the spirit form from the ground up. Actually this block is initially created by the spirit form itself--the force of creational law, to be precise--whereby the spirit form must also be comprised of the two poles of negative and positive within the existence of the material body. The spirit form forms the positive value within itself while the comprehensive-consciousness-block embodies the negative value, which remains in direct contact with the material consciousness emanating from it, which self-influences the formation of thoughts through its own power and also self-evolves. At the same time, the material consciousness is also in connection with the entire material body in a special form, whereby it also means that the material body forms the negative value. That also applies with regard to animals, etc., except that here it is a comprehensive-instinct-consciousness-block and an instinct-consciousness, therefore not any conscious consciousness. But now back to the spirit form, which creates the comprehensive-consciousness-block with humans, or the comprehensive-instinct-block in the animal world and so forth. First there is a still ignorant, new spirit form--with humans as well as the animal, etc.--which does not yet have a comprehensive-consciousness-block, resp. comprehensive-instinct-consciousness-block at its disposal, whereby from out of itself a human conscious consciousness, resp. a material consciousness or with animals, etc. an animal instinct consciousness could be created. And if we speak now only about humans, the still-ignorant spirit form that inhabits a material body for the first time comes into its own through the creational and stored impulse-like need in the spirit form to create a comprehensive-consciousness-block from out of itself." Billy explains elsewhere that the merging of spirit-form with its' consciousness block, gives it an individual consciousness that remains intact at least in the Petale Level; which Billy illustrated by showing the different hand-writing styles which would occur when he took dictation from the Petale spirit-level. As he explained, Billy was receiving separate thought transmissions from different spirit-forms within the WE collective. Here is a link to the original German for my rough translation above. I will post additional information about this when I can find the time. https://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/bulletin/figu_bulletin_44.pdf Regards Bob | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 1251 Registered: 08-2010 |
Patm, Phi_spiral, Tat_tvam_asi Thank you for sharing. I'm sure you too have experienced the thoughts that start pushing themselves into the mind and world of thoughts as we begin to gain cognitions. I learned not to accept anything as a truth, and presently I have yet to gain sufficient recognitions (explanations/cognitions) that help shine a brighter light for the understanding. So little by little my thoughts expand and additional thoughts push through for contemplation. So it appears as if I can never satisfy the intrigue nor find an absolutely fulfilling answer because new doors and windows keep opening and pushing new ideas and thoughts. Your posts, explanations and insights are very much appreciated and I value them as they always address something or another that has pushed itself into my world of thoughts. Salome, Eddie In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says: Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3) | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1338 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thank you for this detailed explanation, Bob. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 74 Registered: 04-2020 |
Pat, here is some additional information regarding the discussion, that hopefully explains the situation better and more precisely than I could; taken from Rund um die Fluidalenergie, page 285: The Comprehensive-Consciousness-Block as a creation of the spirit-form is immortal like the spirit-form itself, consequently it remains, only the consciousness block passes with the personality by the processing; whereby, a neutral energy arises through its disappearance, from which a new consciousness-personality block is formed then incarnated as a block of consciousness through the rebirth of the spirit form. Der Gesamtbewusstseinblock als Kreation der Geistform ist unsterblich wie die Geistform selbst, folglich er bestehen bleibt, nur der Bewusstseinsblock mit der Persönlichkeit vergeht bei der Aufarbeitung, wobei dann durch deren Vergehen eine neutrale Energie entsteht, aus der ein neuer Bewusstseins-PersönlichkeitsBlock gebildet wird, der dann durch die Wiedergeburt des Geistform als Bewusstseinsblocks inkarniert. The comprehensive-consciousness-block is an intangible part, a separate block that is to the spirit resp. belongs to the spirit form, and this can no more extinguish than the spirit form; only what is created by the total consciousness block, i.e. the consciousness block resp. the consciousness, the personality and its ego and the subconscious, dissolve, after which the total consciousness block creates a new consciousness-personality-ego block, which then incarnates or born into the embryo on the 21st day after conception, when the spirit form reincarnates and the consciousness block incarnates. Der Gesamtbewusstseinblock ist ein immaterieller Teil, ein separater Block, der zum Geist resp. zur Geistform gehört, und dieser kann ebensowenig erlöschen wie die Geistform; nur was durch den Gesamtbewusstseinblock erschaffen wird, also der Bewusstseinsblock resp. das Bewusstsein, die Persönlichkeit und deren Ego und das Unterbewusstsein, löst sich auf, wonach der Gesamtbewusstseinblock einen neuen Bewusstseins-Persönlichkeits-Ego-Block erschafft, der dann inkarniert resp. am 21. Tag nach der Zeugung in den Embryo hineingebiert, wenn die Geistform reinkarniert und der Bewusstseinsblock inkarniert. It seems to me that Billy predominantly uses the term "material consciousness" in lieu of the "consciousness-personality-block" such that I just associate "consciousness block" for the "comprehensive-consciousness-block" and the "material consciousness" for the one that is dissolved after each incarnation. I should mention that in case it was a source of misunderstanding. Elsewhere, there is more specific language of the merging of the CCB with the spirit-form that I will post when I find it. Regards Bob | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 826 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Bill, From my understanding, All thoughts, feelings and actions are processed by the consciousness, the 'swinging-wave impulses' that are generated by the consciousness created thoughts, resulting feelings and actions are what is stored in the storage-banks and at the same time these swinging-wave impulses as the high-values of knowledge, essence of wisdom, etc., are worked out and transformed into a monstrously great power and energy (creational-spirit-energy) which the spirit-form works out and accumulates in its creational-spirit-energetical might-block through each reincarnation cycle. The spirit-form has its own spirit-form-evolutive-consciousness which it takes on from the material consciousness its arduously created values in the form of worked out knowledge, of love and essence of wisdom, which autonomously is worked out and stored in higher, finer form (creational-spirit-energy), in order to thereby itself become enormously more knowing, wiser and in love. The spirit-form accumulates many-times more extensive knowledge, essence of wisdom and love than what the human-being is capable of working out in a single life-time. It is this creational-spirit-energy that causes the physical human body and the material-conscious-consciousness-block to begin to break-down and dissolve, when they have reached their capacity, during many incarnated current-life cycles, of providing the spirit-form with its worked out knowledge, essence of wisdom and love, etc. (high values). (the 40 - 60 million years you mention). Please also see: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Reference%20Material/Spiritual/Reincarnation-Incarnation-Process-sec.pdf The state of deep meditation, from my understanding, is a process carried out in the consciousness, which ultimately the spirit-form benefits from in the above described process of accumulating creational-spirit-energy. PatM -------------------- Hi Bob, Just a note, the term Comprehensive-Consciousness-Block (CCB) is no longer used, instead Overall-Consciousness-Block (OCB) is now used since 2008). See: http://dict.figu.org/node/157 Many of the earlier FIGU books sometimes used Overall-conscious-consciousness-block Gesamtbewusstseinblock and conscious-consciousness-block Bewusstseinblock interchangeably, which was incorrect and later corrected by Billy in the Corrigenda (Korrigenda) that were released, for example: http://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/korrigendas/wiedergeburt_leben_sterben_tod_und_trauer.pdf My translation (which may contain errors) of the same article, 'What precisely is the Overall-Consciousness-Block?" can be found at: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Periodicals/FIGU%20Bulletins/2003-Vol9/FIGUBulletin044/Reader%20Question%20-%20What%20precisely%20is%20the%20overall-consciousness-block-sec.pdf RE: your comment: "Billy explains elsewhere that the merging of spirit-form with its'consciousness block, gives it an individual consciousness that remains intact at least in the Petale Level; which Billy illustrated by showing the different hand-writing styles which would occur when he took dictation from the Petale spirit-level. As he explained, Billy was receiving separate thought transmissions from different spirit-forms within the WE collective." From my understanding, this is not describing the material-conscious-consciousness-block but rather the Spiritual-consciousness-block. See: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Reference%20Material/ConsciousnessSpheres-sec.pdf Salome PatM | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 827 Registered: 07-2006 |
Please also note: when I refer to Overall-"Conscious"-Consciousness-Block and "Conscious"-Consciousness-Block of the human-being rather than simply Overall-Consciousness-Block and Consciousness-Block it is to distinguish it from the flora's (plant's) Overall-"Impulse"-Consciousness-Block and "Impulse"-Consciousness-Block (which includes the single/multi-celled organism) as well as the fauna's (animal's) Overall-"Instinct"-Consciousness-Block and "Instinct"-Consciousness-Block. PatM | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1339 Registered: 08-2004 |
PatM and Bob, thanks so much for all your very informative posts. A question I have is regarding the spiritual subconscious: If it has no thoughts and feelings, what does it consist of? Does it have images? I imagine it must have the feeling of love since the spirit must have this, but any others? Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Ilovebilly Member Post Number: 642 Registered: 04-2011 |
Gday phi_spiral regarding your post #72 You can word it many ways, memory retreival/storage, (remembering All your lives of many millions of years) in a fine matter way, i just say fine matter brain, upto u. I could get technical but it would take ages and would not make sense and would sound like i am a politician using big words to make people feel confused and stupid. Gday Patm Your saying the HC isnt conscious and all the way upto AA/We forms are not conscious? But can u reply n a conscious wise please mate! eh eh Also since we are in the abilities section, anyone have any??? abilities that is If any of you could talk to The Whole Universe what would you say? not just earth but The Whole Universe Salome ilovebilly Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining. Truly, I know that there is no resistance to my successes, also not in my thoughts and not in my imagination and also not in my feelings. 77 Being emotional is not logical but is temporary madness and you are either logical or mad not both, i am grateful for my emotions but need to control them. | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 75 Registered: 04-2020 |
Pat: "From my understanding, this is not describing the material-conscious-consciousness-block but rather the Spiritual-consciousness-block. My Conscious-Consciousness-Block reinforced by my Impulse-Consciousness-Block suspected all along there was a mis-understanding in jargon only.  I was not referring to the material- conscious-consciousness-block if that is what you thought. Regards Bob | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1443 Registered: 04-2011 |
Thank you, Bob, Pat and Eddy. “The spirit form creates the overall consciousness block because it, too, must consist of the two poles, positive and negative.” Thank you, Pat – it truly changes my concept of the “spirit” to which the “Mein Geist” prayer is directed. If I remember right, Billy once explained it as a creative but neutral “battery power like energy”.*) But come to think of it now, even batteries have two poles. And is not any particle of the material universe – from the subatomic particles to the structure of the celestial bodies of the universe and the whole universe itself – a 'compound' of opposing forces that balance each other? I knew the principle of bipolarity (4th of the 7 Principles of Truth) which explains the counter-polarity of all spiritual and material values and factors in their togetherness. But that the spirit form is not “born” with but creates its supplementary (“material”) opposite - this is a new insight. ==> Could this, perhaps, explain how our universe came into existence? Because the modus vivendi of all living beings is it not a reflection of the universe as a whole? So, if we extrapolate the birth of a spirit form, see it as a reflection of the birth of a universe – did it, after the universe was born, **) create its material opposite – the material universe? ==>Does a 'polarisation' underlie the “ability to create” in all the 7 levels of universes? I mention my wondering thoughts and questions. But they are only “additional” first moment speculations to our discussion. I really have to first study the whole topic in much more detail, get a mental image of it, before discussing the original topic. For the moment – all I can say – thank you Bob and Pat – for your detailed information and sources. Salome, Bill *) So, I always wondered how one should pray to such a "creative energy". I truly think it is worthwhile to discuss / explain the nature of the "spirit" as Billy, Semjase and the other Plejaren tell us to wholeheartedly revere it. **) I have never really read anywhere who or what will create a new universe. Maybe a universe is 'born' as a natural (cause and effect related) response to a 'parent' “universal consciousness” that has reached a certain zenith = spiritual perfection/purity? Because a change in quantity will, when a certain level is reached (Hegel), always cause a change in quality. Again - as we can observe this in nature, my speculation is that this holds true as well for the universe itself. But these are only my own thoughts. | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 828 Registered: 07-2006 |
@Ilovebilly, The "swinging-wave impulses" retrieved from the storage-banks of the current and all past personalities are actually called "inspirations of the subconsciousness" which find their source in the storage-banks. For a better understanding of the differences types of swinging-wave impulses (and what they are called) and their sources, which can make their way to the human-material-consciousness please see: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Periodicals/ThingsWorthKnowing/No12/fine-spiritual-perception-sec.pdf RE: "HC isnt conscious and all the way upto AA/We forms are not conscious?" Referring to the Consciousness-Spheres see: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Reference%20Material/ConsciousnessSpheres-sec.pdf From my understanding, the spiritual-consciousness is different from the material-consciousness. In the 'High-Council' level, the entire material-sphere (on the left) begins 'breaking-down' while the spiritual-consciousness (on the right) becomes stronger, until ultimately the entire material-sphere dissolves and only the spiritual-sphere remains. The spirit-form can only become "self-conscious" in the spiritual-consciousness sense, not in the material-consciousness sense of an I/ego. hope this helps PatM | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 829 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Bill, The two-poledness you explain is absolutely correct. Billy explains this in great detail in his book, 'Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Sorrow (Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben, Tod und Trauer)' on pages 136-137 in the article 'Negative and positive - Entry of the spirit-form into the physical body (Negativ und Positiv - Einzug der Geistform in den physischen Körper)'. My translation of this article can be found at: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Public/Documents/136-Negativeandpositive-entryofthespirit-formintothephysicalbody-sec.pdf Salome PatM | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1444 Registered: 04-2011 |
Thank you, Pat. Your hyperlinks are a treasure chest of great knowledge. Salome, Bill | ||
Phi_spiral Member Post Number: 77 Registered: 04-2020 |
Chris:"A question I have is regarding the spiritual subconscious: If it has no thoughts and feelings, what does it consist of? Does it have images? I imagine it must have the feeling of love since the spirit must have this, but any others?" Hi Chris. The spirit has its’ own form of feeling called Empfinden; and its’ own type of mind/psyche called Gemüt. - From Die Psyche: “Empfinden is called that block and factor that takes up that important position in the spiritual realm, in the mind (Gemüt), like feeling in the semi-material psyche.” Empfinden wird jener Block und Faktor genannt, der im geistigen Bereiche, im Gemüt,jene wichtige Position einnimmt,wie in der halbmateriellen Psyche das Gefühl." Billy confirmed that this correlation was the correct understanding in an answer to a Forum question:“Yes, feelings and „empfinden“ are counterparts, just as the psyche and the gemüt are counterparts.” The FIGU dictionary defines Empfinden as "perceiving in a fine-spiritual wise, the" The human psyche is classified into fluctuations and other changes that are controlled by moods of the person and consequently cause high moods as well as moods of misery, etc., In contrast to the psyche of the material body, the mood of the spirit form is absolutely neutral-positive and therefore balanced. etc.,( Lehrbrief, Nr.117, Seite 1427-1432) Compared with technology, the Gemüt could be viewed as a radar transmitter and radar receiver of the spirit-form, because it represents that spiritual block that collects or sends out all sensations (Empfindungen), as is the case in the material realm with the psyche, which by and large performs a similar function, but not in the direct area of (Empfindungen). The psyche absorbs things of feeling and thinking, caused by impressions from the inside and outside. However, it also takes on certain values from the spiritual realm and passes them on to consciousness. Overall, the psyche is not only influenced, but also shaped. But the psyche is also able to create impulses that can be received on a spiritual basis and that represent a "form of sensations" (Empfindungen) that are registered by the Gemüt in the spiritual realm. The Gemüt is not able to directly absorb impulses or other things from the material realm, but it is able to grasp and convert vibrations into the same direction. If, therefore, the psyche or consciousness creates an impulse basis that is converted into a form of sensation (Empfindungsform), then the vibration impulses are very well absorbed. (Excerpted from a much longer article by Billy in Stimme der Wassermannzeit, Nr.11) So “feelings” in the material realm are associated with human emotions; whereas, feelings in the spirit realm, Emfinden, is a “sensitivity” to vibrations primarily electro-magnetic, fluidal, etc.; similar to walking into a room and getting a bad “feeling”; the result of a feedback or rather discernment, from the negative fluidal energies deposited there. In Contact 96, Billy describes how he sent his spiritual consciousness (mein geistiges Bewusstsein auf Wanderschaft) to the planet, Erra to check up on Semjase’s well-being after her accident. In an answer to a question from a reader in Bulletin 27; Billy describes the process this way: It was not an "astral wandering" resp. a journey of the spirit, but solely a journey of spiritual awareness. On such a trip, respectively. The spirit and thus also the astral body does not leave the physical body in any way. As it were, only the "antennae" of the spiritual consciousness are "extended" that are able to "hear" and "see", and that in a purely perceptual form. Only the spiritual realm can feel (Empfinden), while the material realm of the human being can only create and realize feelings. Feeling (Empfinden) is therefore reserved solely for the spiritual realm. A spiritual journey of consciousness takes place in a similar form as a material journey of consciousness, during which things can be seen and heard through the forces of consciousness that manifest themselves elsewhere or even in the future. Neither in one case nor in the other does consciousness actually leave its seat, but it remains in place and only sends out its "antenna" or its "feelers". (The original German of this passage is posted below.*) The Gemüt is a part of the spirit-form; therefore, as the energy of the spirit continues to evolve, so would the Gemüt. Billy makes a distinction between the fluidal energies of the Gemüt as different from the fluidal energies of the psyche and material consciousness (pages 54-55, Rund um die Fluidalenergie) and it is by these fluidal energies of the Gemüt that the spirit is able to influence the psyche and material consciousness in a neutral-positive and well-balanced form to help it work efficiently by way of impulses through the subconscious and these impulses are very important for our continuous progress and evolution. And it is from the Gemüt that the basic impulses of actual love are given (pages 346-347, Rund um die Fluidalenergie). If there were no such impulses received from the spirit area through the accumulated progress of previous life experiences and transferred over, then everything would always remain on the same level amounting to stagnation (pages 381 Rund um die Fluidalenergie). Regards Bob *Es handelte sich dabei nicht um eine «Astralwanderung» resp. um eine Reise des Geistes, sondern einzig und allein um eine geistige Bewusstseinsreise. Bei einer solchen Reise resp. Wanderung verlässt der Geist und damit also auch der Astralkörper in keiner Weise den physischen Körper. Es werden sozusagen nur die «Antennen» des geistigen Bewusstseins «ausgefahren», die zu «hören» und zu «sehen» vermögen, und zwar in rein empfindungsmässiger Form. Zu empfinden vermag dabei nur der Geistbereich, während der materielle Bereich des Menschen nur Gefühle zu schaffen und zu realisieren vermag. Das Empfinden bleibt also einzig und allein dem Geistbereich vorbehalten. Eine geistige Bewusstseinsreise läuft in ähnlicher Form ab, wie eine materielle Bewusstseinsreise, bei der durch die Bewusstseinskräfte Dinge erblickt und erhört werden können, die sich anderswo oder gar in der Zukunft manifestieren. | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 831 Registered: 07-2006 |
Regarding an explanation between the differences in the consciousness, subconsciousness and the unconsciousness, please see Billy's detailed answer, from his book 'Teaching Script for the Teaching of the Truth, Teaching of the Spirit, Teaching of the Life (Lehrschrift für die Lehre der Wahrheit, Lehre des Geistes, Lehre des Lebens)' pages 164 - 166, when he was asked this question, please see: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Public/Documents/Teaching%20Script%20-%20Question%20134-sec.pdf Hope this helps PatM | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1447 Registered: 04-2011 |
Excellent discussion of essential parts of the Spirit Teaching. Thank you, Chris, Bob and Pat. Salome, Bill | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1341 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bob, Than you so much for your very informative and detailed reply. I am aware of most of what you said there. I am sure it is of great benefit to many readers here, and full of good reminders to myself. My question was specifically about the "spiritual subconscious" (rather than the material subconscious) which I have read almost nothing on or seen any mention of. Presumably, this "spiritual subconscious" relates to the gemut in some way, but I am unaware of what it does or how it functions or relates to the spirit form or gemut. It was more out of interest than any pressing importance that I asked. It was two words just mentioned without any real explanation. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Scott Moderator Post Number: 3166 Registered: 12-1999 |
Chris, you may have seen this from many years ago?  | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 1342 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thank you so much for that diagram, Scott. Yes, I remember seeing it now but didn't have it to hand. So the spirit subconscious is the intermediary between the material consciousness and the gemuet and spirit consciousness impulses. It seems to essentially connect the material and the spiritual, and facilitates exchanges between the two. It would seem that this spirit subconscious then, is that which at the High Council level begins to take over from the material subconscious as the long transition to pure spirit ensues, with the material subconscious eventually evolving, or transforming, into the spiritual subconscious. Thank you. That is very helpful and clarifies a lot. Chris Use to the best both heart and head and never lose either. | ||
Tat_tvam_asi Member Post Number: 1450 Registered: 04-2011 |
Thank you, Scott. Bill | ||
Joevicente New member Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2020 |
Hello everyone, my name is Joe and I just registered as a user and want to just say hi to everyone on all the boards and working for the mission and I am very impressed and excited to read and see all of the wonderful information shared here. And Scott thank you for that chart. |
