| Author | Message | ||
    Matcha Member Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2021 |
Patm, Thank you for your excellent OCB & C-E Form schematic. Where does the word love fit in here? Yes, we all know it is a feeling but it is so much more. Is not love at the centre of everything? Without love, this schematic seems cold and inhuman. It seems to lack what we as humans are at the very centre of our existence, experience and being. With love at the centre of all things, how can it be just an unmentionable adjunct to thoughts that in the schematic is not even directly connected to the material consciousness or anything other than the psyche? Does, say, a two-month-old baby know no love, or is it an expression of universal love? Of course, there are many levels and types of love but its complete absence of mention here I see as most conspicuous. From the law of love: Love, human of the Earth, is the first and last law of all BEING, therefore of life, altogether. Without love no creation may form, and without love no transformation may be completed. Love is required for all changes of life, for being and not-being, for light and darkness, for the coming and the passing away, for life and death, for everything in everything, and for everything in the existence altogether. Love, therefore, is the absolute wise comprehension, understanding, cognition, knowledge, ability, mastering and logic and certainty, as well as the feelings and feeling, and the absolute perception of one’s own co-life in the life of the neighbor and in all else that exists, as a factor of the communion, in original form, with all existing life in all entire universal forms and beyond, in the absolute wisdom of this: that ones’ own existence is also a part-existence of any other existing life-form, which is however, just as exactly a fragment of one’s own existence, and that collectively the entire universal life-forms, of every kind and form, only exist because it truly is so that, everything and anything is bound together in love and forms one entire universal oneness. Liebe, Mensch der Erde, ist das erste und letzte Gesetz allen SEINs, also des Lebens überhaupt. Ohne Liebe vermag sich keine Kreation zu bilden, und ohne Liebe vermag sich keine Wandlung zu vollziehen. Liebe ist erforderlich für alle Wechsel des Lebens, für das Sein und Nichtsein, für das Licht und die Finsternis, für das Werden und Vergehn, für das Leben und den Tod, für alles in allem und für alles im Existenten überhaupt. Liebe also ist das absolute weisheitliche Erfassen, Verstehen, die Erkenntnis, das Wissen, Können, Beherrshen und die Logik und Sicherheit sowie das Gefühl und Erfühlen und absolute Empfinden des eigenen Mitlebens im Nächsten und in allem anderen Existerenden, als Faktor der Gemeinsamkeit in ureignener Form mit allem existenten Leben in allen gesamtuniversellen Formen und darüber hinaus, in der absoluten Weisheit dessen, dass die eigenen Existenz auch eine Teilexistenz jeglicher anderen existierenden Lebensform ist, dass jene aber genauso ein Teilstück der eigenen Existenz ist , und dass sämtliche gesamtuniversellen Lebensformen jeglicher Art und Form nur darum existent sind, weil dem wahrheitlich so ist; dass alles und jedes miteinander in Liebe verbunden ist und eine gesamtuniverselle Einheit bildet. Chris Peace in wisdom be on Earth and among all creatures. | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 46 Registered: 07-2019 |
Pat, The material central consciousness does exist during a human lifetime and the spiritual central consciousness exists since the creation of the spirit form by the Creation itself. In den rein geistigen Bereich hingegen wird nur das aufgenommen und gespeichert, was vom materiellen Zentralbewusstsein als absolut logisch erkannt wird. In the purely spiritual area, however, only that is taken up and stored which is recognized by the material central consciousness as absolutely logical. The overall-consciousness-block is just like the spiritform capable of reincarnation. I will post more later. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 907 Registered: 07-2006 |
Jacob, I have not found it stated anywhere in the FIGU texts that, "The overall-consciousness-block is ... capable of reincarnation." From my understanding this is unique only to the Creation-energy(spirit)-form. PatM | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 189 Registered: 08-2012 |
Salome friends. Pat, I think you are correct. The overall consciousness-block does not 'reincarnate', but the new conscious-block it creates, incarnates, together with the Creation-energy form which reincarnates. With regard to the Creation-energy form and the Overall consciousness-block, what I have learned so far and I hope I have myself understood it correctly, is that, even though the Overall consciousness block is created by and is part of the Creation-energy form, it does not 'reincarnate' together with the reincarnation of the Creation-energy form. Rather, the new consciousness-block that the Overall-consciousness-block creates, incarnates, together with the Creation-energy form when it reincarnates. And this Overall consciousness-block as well as the consciousness-block created by it, are both enlivened by the Creation-energy form through impulses. Once the Overall consciousness-block is created by the Creation Energy form, it stays in its own otherworldly realm, in order to work on and work out what has not been worked out in life with regard to each personality that lived and died. It then dissolves the old personality and transforms it to a neutral energy out of which a brand-new consciousness/personality is created. This entire process takes seconds to a few minutes at the most according to the information. It is the 'programming of the new consciousness-block/personality by the Overall consciousness-block, that takes a very long time. The Creation-energy form, only extracts, from everything that has been worked out by the Overall-consciousness block, the essence of the knowledge and love, that is, the wisdom, for its own evolution. I am thinking, that it does not make sense or seem logical to me, for the Overall-consciousness block to 'reincarnate' every time the Creation-energy form reincarnates, because then it would have no need to create a new consciousness-block each time, a process that takes place after the death of each personality. Your thoughts? There is just so much information to take in, to learn from and to comprehend... Thank you for having me here. Salome Piyali | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 47 Registered: 07-2019 |
Here you go, from contact 338 Verbunden mit der Geistform, die nach dem Ableben des materiellen Körpers in einen eigenen Jenseitsbereich überwechselt, geschieht das gleiche mit dem Gesamt-Bewusstsein- block, der ebenfalls in einen ihm eigenen Jenseitsbereich eingeht. Connected with the spirit-form, which after the death of the material body changes into its own afterlife, the same happens with the overall-consciousness-block, which also enters its own afterlife. Diese neue Persönlichkeit ist es dann, die zusammen mit der reinkarnationsfähigen Geistform und deren Gesamtbewusstseinblock in einem neuen menschlichen Körper geboren wird. This new personality is then born together with the reincarnatable spirit-form and its overall-consciousness block in a new human body. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 1413 Registered: 08-2010 |
Hi Piyali and all, To me, I don't find it logical that the OCB somehow becomes detached and remains floating around the planet waiting for the death. Perhaps we need to better understand what the OCB is firstly, its relationship with the spirit-form/Creation-Energy-form and how it differs with the newly created Consciousness-Block/personality. For me, it appears that there is missing information. Salome, Eddie In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says: Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3) | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2019 |
Diese neue Form Bewusstsein-Persönlichkeit – die keinerlei Bewandtnis mit der früheren Form Bewusstsein-Persönlichkeit mehr hat – ist es dann, die geboren wird, und zwar zusammen mit der Reinkarnation der Geistform, der auch der Gesamtbewusstseinblock angehört (siehe ‹Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben Tod und Trauer›, Wassermannzeit-Verlag). It is this new form of consciousness-personality – which has no longer any relation to the former form consciousness-personality - that is then born, together with the reincarnation of the spirit form, to which the total consciousness block also belongs (see 'Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Mourning', Wassermannzeit-Verlag). Contact 440 “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Matcha Member Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2021 |
This is a very interesting discussion. I distinctly remember Billy answering this question somewhere (perhaps in the Q&A but I cannot find it anywhere) in which it was said that only the spirit form reincarnates while the OCB incarnates. It said words to the effect that the OCB reconfigures itself after each person dies and so it would not be correct to say it REincarnates because it is never the same. It renews itself and then incarnates again. The spirit form (the term used at the time) however, does not change and only has slight additions and so therefore it alone reincarnates. It was, to me, very much a semantic explanation. If I can find the actual wording I will post it. "... that is then born, together with the reincarnation of the spirit form, to which the total consciousness block also belongs..." The punctuation here, showing that the OCB is connected to the spirit form when the latter reincarnates does not to me necessarily mean that the OCB reincarnates, but it certainly does incarnate at least. Perhaps someone should get clarification from Billy. Chris Peace in wisdom be on Earth and among all creatures. | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 908 Registered: 07-2006 |
Jacob, The phrase you reference in Contact 440 Diese neue Persönlichkeit ist es dann, die zusammen mit der reinkarnationsfähigen Geistform und deren den neuen GesamtBewusstseinblock in einem neuen menschlichen Körper geboren wird. This new personality is then that, which together with the reincarnation-capable spirit-form and its the new overall-consciousness-block is born into a new human body is not the actual sentence in the book. When the book Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Sorrow (Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben, Tod und Trauer) was first written by Billy there was a confusion regarding the 'Overall'Consciousness-Block' and the 'Consciousness-Block and in many instances in the book they were used incorrectly. The actual sentence in the book on page 122 is corrected in the books extensive Corrigenda Falsch: Diese neue Persönlichkeit ist es dann, die zusammen mit der reinkarnationsfähigen Geistform und deren Gesamtbewusstseinblock in einem neuen menschlichen Körper geboren wird. Richtig: Diese neue Persönlichkeit ist es dann, die zusammen mit der reinkarnationsfähigen Geistform und dem neuen Bewusstseinsblock in einem neuen menschlichen Körper geboren wird. This new personality is then that, which together with the reincarnation-capable Creation-energy(spirit)-form and the new consciousness-block is born into a new human body. Hope this helps PatM | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 909 Registered: 07-2006 |
Jacob, The entire corrected/translated document 'Processes after the dying - Spirit-form, consciousness-block and overall-consciousness-block (Vorgänge nach dem Sterben - Geistform, Bewusstseinblock und Gesamtbewusstseinblock)' from Billy's Book 'Rebirth, Life, Dying, Death and Sorrow (Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterben, Tod Und Trauer)' pages 120-124 can be found here: https://creationaltruth.org/Portals/0/Documents/Reference%20Material/Spiritual/120-Processesafterthedying-Spirit-formandoverall-consciousness-block-sec.pdf Please note the Corrigenda corrections in the article. The original book's Korrigenda can be found here: https://www.figu.org/ch/files/downloads/korrigendas/wiedergeburt_leben_sterben_tod_und_trauer.pdf Hope this helps PatM | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2019 |
Thank you, I have only the German version, I never bother with the English version. I will read and study the corrected version on the FIGU website. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 910 Registered: 07-2006 |
Jacob, This book currently only exists in German. The Korrigenda is for the German Version, i.e., your version. PatM | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2019 |
Patm, I understand that. I know that there are some English translations because some people rather study the always faulty English translations instead of the much more expressive German original. One of your schematics, about the material consciousness, psyche, etc., is a mere copy from said book. Not to forget that this book contains much more information than the few pages of your translated material. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 911 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Jacob, All my FIGU authorized English translations always include the original German text. The schematic is not a mere copy, but rather a translated copy with the source identified in the Title block of the drawing. RE: your last statement "Not to forget that this book contains much more information than the few pages of your translated material." Our FIGU authorized translated copy of the entire book (not just a "few pages") has been completed for some time and per FIGU request has been forwarded to FIGU Canada for final review and publishing in the future. Hope this helps PatM | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2019 |
Thank you, I have only the German version, I never bother with the English version. I will read and study the corrected version on the FIGU website. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Jacob Member Post Number: 52 Registered: 07-2019 |
Hi, Pat, The German version is always the best one. I hope this helps. “The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates “Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius Salome, Jacob | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 190 Registered: 08-2012 |
Hi Eddie, "To me, I don't find it logical that the OCB somehow becomes detached and remains floating around the planet waiting for the death." Exactly where did you read this? Because I certainly did not write it and I do not know of anyone else who did. If you have come to this conclusion from reading my short summary, which by the way is a not a speculative one, but comes from what I have read over and over again, esp. in the book "Rund um die Fluidalenergie resp. Fluidalfräfte und andere Dinge Fragen und Antwort", and thought about deeply and continue to do so because there is so much to comprehend, then you have some imagination and it is all yours because it is certainly not what I think. You also haven't read my summary properly as is evident from your response. You have the book, yes? Then read it and you will find, that what I wrote and shared here briefly, there and much more. in my brief summary, I also wrote about the relationship of the OCB to the Creation-energy form and the functions each have. This book gives a lot more information. Study it. I did have a question with regard to how logical it was for the OCB to "reincarnate" or transform itself to a "new consciousness" at the end of my summary, because I read some of the posts from members here who are wondering or speculating on this and nothing wrong with that. Nowhere have I read that the OCB itself 'reincarnates', but that the new consciousness it creates 'incarnates' - it was a question asked by others and I am now curious too. That's all it was. I too would be interested in the answer. Information is not "missing", but can be thoroughly misunderstood. When we study something attentively, questions can arise no matter how illogical or silly it may sound to us, to our own selves. I respect all questions and do not laugh at anyone. When questions arise, they are asked and when asked answers are given at the right time. Nothing is "missing". So unless you can give me a thoughtful answer/response, that is if you have one, it is best not to write anything which appear senseless. As it is, I write very rarely here these days and now when I do, I make sure what I am writing comes from what I have understood and it is not merely speculative. So spare me the sarcasm. I have asked Christian too and he said similar questions have been asked and added to a list of questions to be presented to Billy at an appropriate time. So while waiting, we all have to be patient and keep on studying, do our best to understand and apply in the meantime. Thank you and Salome. Salome Piyali | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 1414 Registered: 08-2010 |
Piyali, Let me correct your conclusion that I had participated in this discussion by hurling sarcasm at you. Here is your statement from your Post#189 Once the Overall consciousness-block is created by the Creation Energy form, it stays in its own otherworldly realm, in order to work on and work out what has not been worked out in life with regard to each personality that lived and died. Let me emphasize here: it stays in its own otherworldly realm This is where I felt that, I at least, lacked certain knowledge or information about the OCB and its relation to the spiritform/creation-energy-form... as it doesn't make sense that the OCB "stays in its own otherworldly realm". I do not cultivate Creation-Energy principles into my very Being and simultaneously hurl insults or sarcasm at people. Rest assured there were no ill feelings nor ill intents in my participation here or elsewhere. Salome, Eddie In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says: Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3) | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 191 Registered: 08-2012 |
Eddie, thank you. However your glib statement did not sound appropriate for one who feels he lacks knowledge about something. After all, we are both students of the Creational Teaching and neither of us know everything. We are bound to have questions. Still, I accept your explanation and no hard feelings. I wrote what I wrote because that is my understanding from reading the explanations about the Creation-energy and the OCB in the book, "Rund um die Fluidalenergie...". It was highly recommended to me by a good friend who had told me that he understood everything much better after reading this particular book. He is proficient in both German and English and has been studying for a very long time. I took his advice and have begun to study this book thoroughly as well. If you read it, you may understand where my understanding is coming from...or not. I can point out the pages to you in the book, but I much rather you found it on your own. I read, and BEAM repeats it many times in the book, that upon death of the body, in case of the human body, the Creation-energy and the consciousness (personality, ego), each escapes to it's own otherworldly (death-life) realm. The Creation-energy to its own otherworldly (death-life) realm and the consciousness into the realm of the OCB, where the OCB takes seconds to work on and work out that which had not been worked out in life and then dissolves the consciousness block and transforms it into neutral energy from which a new consciousness is created, etc. You can find out the rest on your own. For me, the explanations are very clear. I have also read, that the OCB is created by the Creation-energy, hence, it is a part of the Creation-energy, however, they each are in their own otherworldly realm and have two separate functions which I also shared. Hence my summary 'statement', that "it stays in its own otherworldly realm" because it is from its own realm that it carries out a specific function. This is my understanding. I have no doubt that the Creation-energy and the OCB are connected, that makes complete sense, since it is the Creation-energy who creates the Overall Consciousness block. Now, how the two otherworldly realms been formed, I do not know but it is a good question to ask. I would think that it is formed out of the Creation-energy. But I rather not speculate here, because I do not know and am looking forward to the explanation from BEAM. So if you had asked me a thoughtful question, instead of making a statement of your own which did not read well to me, then you could have inspired further thinking in me. Anyhow, my 'statement', is not incorrect, because the OCB does work from its own otherworldly (death-life) realm and we will find out more in time. In the mean time, again, please study the book if you haven't already. As you know we must read and study each book, including the Geisteslehre, at least three times minimum, and each time, the understanding becomes deeper. If you have any more questions and need clarification, please ask me. If I know the answer, I will do my best. If not, I will clearly 'state' it. Salome Piyali | ||
Eddieamartin Member Post Number: 1415 Registered: 08-2010 |
Piyali, Accusing me of making a glib statement is an insult. But those are your words which you own. As to the thread subject and clarification: I stated that there must be missing information since something wasn't clear. To me it doesn't make sense (logic) that the OCB "stays" (remains) somewhere while the creation-energy-form & consciousness-block incarnate into an embryo... unless the OCB can be likened to a storage bank or an area around the planet. I no longer wish to participate here. If anyone knows about this subject I would appreciate learning the answer. Salome, Eddie In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says: Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3) | ||
Patm Member Post Number: 912 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Jacob, I absolutely agree with your statement, "The German version is always the best one." Primarily because it will always be the most accurate, due to the inaccuracies inherent with translations into languages other than German. All around the world there are individuals and groups who focus themselves on the FIGU mission in their own countries and part of their mission is to translate the FIGU texts into the primary language of their respective country. This is to make it possible for residents of their country to begin their own personal journey of self-consciousness-development in their own language, since they may never have the opportunity to learn the German language with the proficiency to understand the original German FIGU texts. The importance and accuracy of the German texts may initially never mean anything to them, however the FIGU texts translated into their own language may provide them the opportunity to no longer be one of the unknowing-ones in search of the reality and its truth. It is the responsibility of those who are voluntarily active in FIGU's mission in each country to learn the German language in order to fulfill FIGU's mission of providing the FIGU texts in a form (language) understandable to their own country's residents. Thus regarding language importance it is all relative to each individual's proficiency in a language and their desire to learn the Creation-energy Teaching. Many may learn German and many for whatever personal reason may not. No one should be looked down on for not knowing or not wanting to learn the German language and they definitely should not be prevented from learning the Creation-energy teaching simply because they do not know German. Hopefully the FIGU texts that are translated into whatever language in the future will provide more than just the German speaking individuals with an opportunity to learn and consciousness-based develop themselves. The one problem for those that do not take the initiative to learn the German language will be that they always will be dependent on others to translate for them. With the FIGU translation requirement of including the original German text with translations into other languages, that country's residents will actually receive the best both, the original German texts (for those that wish to also study the German) along with the FIGU texts in their own language. I would like to personally thank all those who have themselves taken on the task of learning the German language in order to provide their country's residents with the best possible translations of the FIGU texts. PatM | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 193 Registered: 08-2012 |
Salome dear Eddie, Forgive me. Your words are anything but, "glib". Wrong choice of word by me, for your words always carry depth and I do learn from our interactions and your posts. Please smile and don't be so upset. I am always told to be brief and to be direct, however it appears that when I am, it does not sit well with you or some others. I do keep working at it. But I know very clearly in my conscience, that if there is one thing I haven't done, then that is "insult" you. You own that emotion just as you ask me to own my words and I do. This morning, after my meditation, when I read your posts again, it did not appear "glib" nor sarcastic, but simply came across as a disagreement with what Billy has written himself and it all sounds illogical to you. Well, he will explain it again to all of us I am sure when he is able. What I wrote is simply based on what Billy has explained several time. Hence it is very clearly in my head. I hope you can ignore the parts in my responses that upset you and focus on what I have shared with you and everyone here. From now on this is what I will do too, ignore the parts that come across as "upsetting" and not write anything at all until I have resolved the emotion within myself. You do not have to agree with any of it but somehow, what sounds illogical to you sounds very logical to me and I am open to being corrected and learn more. I hope you have a beautiful day and a peaceful one. Salome Piyali | ||
Piyali Member Post Number: 194 Registered: 08-2012 |
Salome all, I made a mistake in my post number 192 so here is the corrected version: The Overall Consciousness-block, is a storage bank too or has it's own, because it contains the worked out information of all previous consciousnesses/personalities via all the previous reincarnations (not 'incarnations) of that respective Creation-energy form." Page 564, 574, 722 of the book, "Rund um die Fluidalenergie..." gives us a lot of clear explanations about the Overall Consciousness-block, which might give rise to further questions which can be asked to BEAM. An excerpt from Page 565: Frage: Der Gesamtbewusstseinsblock bleibt also? Antwort: Der Gesamtbewusstseinblock als Kreation der Geistform ist unsterblich wie die Geistform Selbst, folglich er bestehen bleibt, nur der Bewusstseinsblock mit der Persönlichkeit vergeht bei der Aufarbeitung, wobei dann durch deren Vergehen eine neutrale Energie entsteht, aus der ein neuer Bewusstseins-Persönlichkeits-Block gebildet wird, der dann durch die Wiedergeburt des Geistform als Bewusstseinsblock inkarniert. Now, here is the word for word translation copied from the book: Question: Therefore the overall Consciousness-block remains? Answer: The overall consciousness-block as a creation of the the spirit-form is immortal like the spirit-form itself, therefore it remains existing, only the consciousness-block with the personality ceases to to exist upon the processing, in which case a neutral energy then arises through its passing away, from which a new consciousness-personality-block is formed, which then incarnates through the rebirth of the spirit-form as a consciousness-block. Of course when we read before and after this excerpt, our understanding becomes more clear. Thank you. Salome Piyali |
