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Matcha
Member
Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2021
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 05:25 am: | 
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Do we really need an elite group consisting of a "selected highly disciplined group specifically trained in scientific, meditative self awareness protocols along the lines of Creatitonal laws and directives that addresses the Cause & Effect principles regarding the various Gewalt thoughts, actions and events in which these highly trained self disciplined individuals who must control their emotions as not to contaminate this unusual lifestyle while remaining neutral slightly positive on all three realms of existence, respectively the material, half-material and pure non-religious spiritual attributes present in all material human beings"?
The problem I see is in the word "selected". No one is in a position to truly, wisely select such an elite group. Of course, if such a group were to naturally form and pursue these Creational goals it would be of very good assistance.
The point is, everyone must themselves do this to the best of their ability and not leave it to a special group, which is what would inevitably happen given a selected group to do so.
Who is qualified to so select? Ultimately, no one.
Even in FIGU problems have always arisen when trying to select leaders, and I do realize they have a core group. However, all must be treated equally and given equal opportunity. This is the only way that true balance and wisdom can be established and maintained. Who among humanity can judge and calibrate the wisdom of others? No one. To attempt it could only result in a kind of caste-like system, of opinions regarding who is "better" or "more evolved" and this would be essentially in error and lead to dissenters and dissenting opinions and eventual conflict.
Perhaps the Plejaren with their immeasurably advanced systems and technologies, and wisdom would qualify to so judge, but unfortunately we are all lacking in those supporting systems and elements.
This is not to say there are not those who are more evolved "spiritually" or in Creation Energy expression in their lives, but we are not clear enough in our perception to perfectly and correctly determine this.
Again, any groups going for this without the idea that they are somehow more evolved or "leaders," "selected," or "chosen" would be a great and useful effort and activity. Hopefully, groups will spring up everywhere doing this without any thought of being more qualified or more up to it than others. All are capable of doing all that they can. Indeed, because of the lassitude of humanity generally, the committed actions of ALL who realise this need is necessary.
Chris
Peace in wisdom be on Earth and among all creatures.
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Tat_tvam_asi
Member
Post Number: 1927
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 03:37 pm: |
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Yes, Chris, this was what I felt as well.
We may have studied creational laws; it may allow us to give good advice. But we should do so freely and for everyone. With a sense of 'human oneness' And realizing that all that happens to us - really is but an opportunity to create 'a balance' - in us and around us.
Esp. with a view of what happens in our present and the many wars before. Superiority breeds patriotism and wars. As long as it persists, no-one will ever know when the next war begins: "Only the dead have seen the end of war." (Plato) |
Matcha
Member
Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2021
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2022 - 09:10 am: |
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That's right, Bill.
It's not even just the problems associated with choosing such a group; our problems are way beyond the scope of any one group, even a group of Billy and the CG of 49. How, for example, could any single group solve the immense problem of overpopulation alone? Our world leaders have probably already concluded -- erroneously -- that the scale of global birth control would be a logistics nightmare, which I sometimes think is why they have not even mentioned trying it. Then there are the problems of pollution of the air, land, and seas; the problem of deforestation and desertification; global food and water supplies; transforming world religions; ending our wars; financing the vast global dissemination of the teaching, and the issues go on and on. It is obvious that such a multitude of Herculean endeavours are way beyond the scope of any one group. It will doubtless require many groups of considerable size that will form, grow and expand over the years and generations before all the issues can and will be resolved.
Chris
Peace in wisdom be on Earth and among all creatures.
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Hawaiian
Member
Post Number: 261
Registered: 05-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2022 - 04:08 pm: |
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On the matter of “selection” it is a screening process to determine if that individual has the potential mindset, self-discipline and conviction to follow through this most vigorous process to even begin such training in addition to accept the truth about the process of how Creation works and that he/she is a product of that non-religious spiritual evolution accumulation spanning many billions of years progressing through all levels and that in time, he/she will be merged with others who will then be able to create all things including material human beings in a brand new universe to continue this process.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Earthly humans will not even pass this basic consideration because of the religious contamination restricts being processed through their own GEMUT access not just on this criteria, but also their lack of complete emotional control through the two lowest levels regarding the material and half material realm, respectfully the material Consciousness and half material Subconscious that are extremely important.
Another factor is the internal processing ability of such individuals to accept the fact that the material consciousness cannot comprehend the pure spiritual GEMUT process and learn to “keep its mouth shut” and stand aside while the processing between the half-material Subconscious or more technically speaking the collective Subconscious processing to the GEMUT taking place which may take up to seven days via the half-material Psyche, which in turn either is presented to the material conscious, depending on the evolutionary maturity of the personality OR for those who have not yet reached this level, are presented in their dreams, which require further analysis by the material conscious.
That is why the material consciousness must be trained to recognize the difference and to understand that his/her half-material Subconscious, does not use language to convey its interpretation, but utilizes symbolic representations in one’s dreams that can be misinterpretation if one’s 6th and 7th senses, respectfully the intuition and primary telepathy are not fully developed.
This where very few has the capacity to master one of the hardest form of meditation, that is referred as “meditation in the dream state” and on of the reasons why this FIGU Forum does not allow any reference to this topic, although Billy did write a book on this topic which is still in German and not translated into English, but that does not mean its meaning is completely unaccessable from the universal Consciousness.
Do not despair, for it is possible for certain individuals to be properly trained to reach this level of awareness, but for those that can’t, at least they’ll be accelerated in the spiritual evolution none-the-less and maybe take that matter in another reincarnation(s). Nothing is done in vain although the time/dimension may be different for others.
FIGU for that mater as a group is too passive and undisciplined to be “leaders” but a few does have the mindset for further investments in this endeavor as Billy is approaching his passing and there are no other prophets to replace him since he is the last one. The Plejarens are also too passive and timid as evidenced in past events like the Tunguska-Bardan incident of religious destruction via Giza Intelligence not being resolved even though the opportunity to do so existed. Then we have the wiping out of all infrastructure on Mars by the Sirius commandos when arresting the “men in black” not to mention that the Plejarens will stand by even if Putin pushes the nuclear button in this war in Ukraine.
I do not have confidence in their sit-on-the fence attitude mindset even though they may have the most technologically advancement at their disposal, they too are too passive and timid adhering excessively on the “neutral slightly positive” nature attitude even when faced with an occasionally events that require deviation from this protocol in order to appropriately resolve this issue that has presented itself previously as evidenced in the latest CO collapse of the planet Asart, who are slightly technologically ahead of Earth. Billions of human lives lost and just hundreds of millions saved while the planet will remain lifeless for quite some time as a result these billions of spirit form will burden the already overpopulated spirit-forms on Earth reincarnation process.
All of this could have been avoided if just the Plejarens would have given them the same opportunity to relocate to vacate planets as was done to that recent ET race faced with a solar system crisis and planned to depopulate and take over Earth as well as other planets.
So I wouldn’t depend on the Plejarens, but will put my energy into Earthly humans instead and would concentrate on those who the Elementelwesen has contacted as they are more spiritual evolved than the current Plejaren if they have kept their Psyche balance and not been contaminated as well as others who show promise while in the training process. |
Reen71b
Member
Post Number: 91
Registered: 09-2020
| | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2022 - 02:02 am: |
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@Hawaiian
You aren't supposed to depend on the Plejaren. You aren't supposed to even depend on Billy and the FIGU core group members, or anyone else for that matter. You are seriously missing the mark on your statements about members of FIGU and the Plejaren being too passive. Most likely because you have an earthly mentality. I'm sure you're fully aware that the Plejaren have strict federation guidelines that they adhere to. They've given us the tools. It's up to us (Individually but come together) to either sink or swim.
Maureen
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Matcha
Member
Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2021
| | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2022 - 06:51 am: |
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I am too busy at present to answer the many bits and pieces Hawaiian brought up. I will just say that with all the Plejaren have done for us over the past 48 years and more it is a big stretch to conclude they are too passive and sit on the fence. The Plejaren wanted to and were prepared to intervene and help the Bardan at Tungutska (sp?). They were prevented from intervening by the Bardans themselves. To break that galactic directive could have led to the entire breakdown of the galactic Federation's legal system and even the alliance itself.
WW III is not a prediction but a prophecy. So it will only happen if WE are foolish enough to trigger it. It has nothing to do with the Plejaren. Whether it occurs or not depends ENTIRELY on US.
Chris
Peace in wisdom be on Earth and among all creatures.
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Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 1462
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2022 - 07:37 am: |
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Greetings Hawaiian,
Just a thought, when one attends schooling at a younger age, it is supposed to provide tools for one to navigate through life, etc. Later in life when encountering challenges, are the teachers expected to come save us from our own created difficulties?
It is the same with Billy and the Plejaren, they have provided Earthlings with tools, it is up to us to properly use the tools and applied knowledge... |
Hawaiian
Member
Post Number: 264
Registered: 05-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2022 - 02:17 pm: |
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Instead of responding to these reactions and waste my time and energy for those who put foolish restrictions on their potentials, wait until these books are published, and if you can understand and apply its methods while hopefully become more aware, then find the answers yourself as it is geared more so to develop one's 6th and 7th senses which is necessary even though most here certainly lacks the proper experiences and training. |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 1605
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2022 - 06:24 pm: |
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How would Hawaiian have the slightest idea about the quality and extent of the "experiences and training" of people here?
Should we be making claims about their "experiences and training" based on our own? |
Hawaiian
Member
Post Number: 266
Registered: 05-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2022 - 02:34 pm: |
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Micheal Horn,
As typical of your responses and it shows your ignorance is questioning one’s approaches, simply for the fact that you do not have formal training in scientific research techniques nor the self discipline of purely observation double blind application of which one’s assumption takes a backseat status until the results are presented in non-contamination form.
I put this response to your assessment of “How would Hawaiian have the slightest idea about the quality and extent of the "experiences and training" of people here?
Should we be making claims about their "experiences and training" based on our own?
1. How does one clarify that a current ongoing dream is really just a dream or a telenotic one? Even if I fully describe what to look for and how to respond in verifying between the two types of dreams, if one does not have the experience in the first place to even make an attempt to do so, will not understand such an endeavor.
As Billy mentioned, “dreams are three dimensional”, however telenotic or artificial dreams are technically generated formatted with outside influences, but with limited three-dimensional presentation, until the dreamer alters this condition which requires self-disciplined techniques through difficult training that the vast majority is not aware of nor trained in this manner.
This alteration is done by the dreamer who is trained to recognize such events and interacts while the dream is occurring, which is only made available through previous self-discipline training similar to meditation in the dream realm. How many on this FIGU Forum is capable of such matters. Not much for sure and certainly not you Michael otherwise your responses would have been more professional in nature |
Michael_horn
Member
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2022 - 02:57 pm: |
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Hawaiian,
Whatever fault you take with my comments, your claims remain subjective and unaccompanied by the kind of credible substantiation that you claim to have.
This comment is a perfect example of a claim implying training, etc., that you don't substantiate:
"formal training in scientific research techniques nor the self discipline of purely observation double blind application of which one’s assumption takes a backseat status until the results are presented in non-contamination form." |
Jacob
Member
Post Number: 59
Registered: 07-2019
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 - 02:56 am: |
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I want to chime in just once, regardless of the tantrum it will cause:
The claims about telenotic dreams are ridiculous, since even Billy was not aware about telenosis until contact 36.
Hawaiian implies to know what telenosis or what 'telenotic dreams' truly are(something I have never seen once in the Geisteslehre briefen about the dream section), preposterous, or what the knowledge and understanding of other FIGU forum members is.
Claims should always be accompanied by proof.
He has no way of knowing, based on a few short responses to his posts what the other people here are capable off, or not.
The attitude and disdain in a lot of Hawaiian’s posts is very clear. The following verse from the OM came to mind:
Canon 30 verse 137
137. Wahrlich, ein weiser Mann oder ein weises Weib rufet nicht aus und stellet nicht zur Schau seine Weisheit, ein Narr aber rufet aus lautstark seine Narrheit.
(137) Truly, a wise man or woman does not proclaim or display his wisdom, but a fool proclaims his foolishness loudly.
I have witnessed this interaction going on for more then a decade, and to all the people (including myself) who have interacted with Hawaiian over his unproven claims, the following quote comes to mind (supposedly)from Einstein: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
“The unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.” - Marcus Aurelius
Salome,
Jacob
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 453
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2022 - 09:00 am: |
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I'm not sure how to phrase this, but what is the Creational-spiritual-consciousness-related cause and effect of an individual in power who starts a war and is responsible for the deaths of millions of people? Are there Creational-spiritual-consciousness-related repercussions to such behaviour? In the world this person would be punished for his actions, most likely even put to death. But what can future incarnations-reincarnations expect as a consequence (effect) of past actions? I know it is impossible to tell what circumstances in which one will be born, and although a new born human being is born with a new personality, the Creation-energy-spirit is the same, albeit a little more evolved or devolved. |
Tat_tvam_asi
Member
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2022 - 10:13 pm: |
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Some food for thought for Joseph,
CR 191:40-80
www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_191
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/20079.html#POST95050
(Evolution of a Prison Planet)
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/15104.html#POST80121
Salome, Bill |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 454
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2022 - 07:51 am: |
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Thanks for your reply Bill,
Maybe I didn't understand it clearly, but I don't feel those links fully answer my query.
What they talk about is controlled circumstances, where those who made errors in previous lives are directed by others to make amends.
On Earth we don't know when someone who commited past evils is reincarnated, and so "we may still assume that those that once made the wrong decisions and did not improve, may have an inclination to be “impure” in their following lives again".
In uncontrolled circstamces such as we have on Earth, how are past errors neutralised? Let's say, for example, I were to reason with myself "There's no God, there's no hell, there's no atonement for my 'sins', there's no punishment unless I'm caught by the authorities. To hell with them, to hell with people, life's shit. I'm going to create chaos. I'm going to kill and cause destruction. I'm going to yield to my dark side and see what I can get away with."
It seems "spiritually", Creationally, consciously, however you describe the life of the spirit, I have nothing to fear and can get away with living a selfish, greedy, and evil life.
Can I? And if I can't, then how do my actions become neutralised in successive reincarnations, considering that no one on Earth will know where the Creation-energy within me will reincarnate in the world again? I could potentially repeat the same errors.
Are individuals with major past errors, having committed much evil in the world, repeating the same mistakes? |
Eddieamartin
Member
Post Number: 1512
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2022 - 11:19 am: |
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Joseph,
You bring up some excellent points and you posed very good questions. Very similar to my thoughts at one point. This is why it's important for all of us to study the Goblet Of The Truth.
Salome,
Eddie
In the *Goblet of the Truth* there it says:
Live always in love and in peace, foster freedom and harmony on Earth and never forget the real truth. Foster your life always in goodness of heart and live in the true BEING of the Creation. The *Goblet of the Truth* will wake you, not to the bane - but to the boon. (pg.3)
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Jokubas_stalmokas
Member
Post Number: 138
Registered: 01-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 12:58 am: |
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Joseph,
I think it is exactly what it is. You keep committing same errors every incarnation until you correct them. But you have to take in consideration that others might be evolving quicker and decide the ways on how to isolate you, where you have plenty of time to think about your ways to form good impulses. That is why you start fresh. Next reincarnation you might decide a little different and that is how you slowly evolve. Same bad cycles might repeat for very long time. We have to remember that at some point Nokodemion created people spirits had to be suspended for some time from entering material plane until enough of bad impulses were neutralized. |
Tat_tvam_asi
Member
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 04-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 03:50 am: |
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Hi Joseph,
Thank you for your reply.
I will try to reply to your questions.
“Controlled circumstances”
You seem to refer to the life forms of Semjasa/Asael and their followers who - when they were reborn on our planet – were directed by the Plejaren to “make amends”.
“Uncontrolled circumstances”
You ask how people that are not controlled by o/s forces will fare, how they will ‘neutralize’ their deeds.
Well, … as we sow, so we will reap. And what we do to others we do, indeed, to ourselves. So, the evil done to others is not only a cause but as well a latent effect that will return to us.
E.g., in the latest CR Billy pointed out that all empires fail to realize that by busily subjugating other countries they, indeed, are working on / setting in motion their “own demise”. (1)
And Semjase’s remark (CR 191:70) that
“… this is the first time … that no member has degenerated or received harm in such a manner that one has met a forcible death or has loaded death-guilt upon himself…”. It tells us that evil deeds set in motion evil effects for the doer (2).
But Rome was neither build nor destroyed in one day: There usually is a time span in between the cause and its effect. And in this interim a person who realizes his wrongdoing can do new deeds that decrease the effect.
This is where the article “Evolution of a Prison Planet” (3) comes into play. It hints that wrongdoings are not uncommon on a prison planet (250 years of peace in the past 10,000 years) but (thesis) “There is a way to transform one’s depressing self-image after making a mistake by compassionately assisting a person who has the same misgiving / is about to make or has made the same mistake”.
So, anyone who feels down after making a regretful mistake can tell himself “Let me …. (... find a person who has the same erring/hang up/addiction etc. and help it to overcome its problem …)”.
If this thought is heartfelt and honest it will attract such a person.
And by helping him/her one will not only help this person but oneself as well: One’s self-consciousness will change and one may even be able to see one’s mistake as a tool to better understand the person helped. Many group therapies are based on a somewhat similar modus vivendi.
This, in essence, was what my writing was about.
Not sure though if this is what you were looking for.
Salome, Bill
(1) www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_821
(2) http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_191
(3) http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/15104.html#POST80121 |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 457
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 08:13 am: |
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Thanks Bill and Jokubas, that answers my query. I kind of get it now. It's really just trial and error, while at the same time having to deal with the effects of one's actions. I'm not religious, but I have a Catholic background, and I suppose I thought the repercussions of one's misdeeds might be more consequential. I can't help but feel it still lets one off lightly, especially if one dodges the law in the world. The offence of taking someone's life, only to make amends by learning to do good deeds in another life, seems almost insulting to human life. But I guess that's why everything is one, everything is Creation. No one who lives according to the laws of Creation would deliberately do harm to oneself by wishing evil on another because then one is wishing evil on oneself, so the only logical way of dealing with it is to neutralise the errors in order to decrease and even nullify the effects in order to achieve harmony, balance. |
Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 10:22 am: |
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Hi Joseph, Et al,
What you are also talking about are psychopaths and sociopaths. It’s my understanding that these people are not born this way, they are born into an environment that conditions their personality into disorders that manifests itself into extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Many on this forum were raised on a religious foundation of one belief or another, because their parents or guardians’ thought was best with no evil intended. Nonetheless, we able to break free so to say and find the Creational Teaching that brought us to where we are today.
These were very good questions and answers that is far above what the general public or lay person could even conceive.
Thank you,
Salome
Kenneth |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 460
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2022 - 12:47 am: |
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Kenneth,
The thing with psychopaths and sociopaths, or people who are born into an environment that conditions them and creates all kinds of mental disorders, is that their misdeeds and errors would still have repercussions, and they would still have to deal with the effects of their actions in future reincarnations.
I've always said that Life doesn't care about your misfortunes or your shortcomings. It is on you to do the best you can, and should you fail that, it is still on you to do the best you can.
People born into circumstances that end up determining their actions for the worst are treated no differently to those deliberate evil mosters who are indifferent to human suffering. We all reap what we sow, isn't that so? |
Kenneth
Member
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 04-2013
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2022 - 02:55 pm: |
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Hi Joseph,
Interesting topic. When you say, “…they would still have to deal with the effects of their actions in future reincarnations.”
We know that Karma does not exist. That aside, apparently Karma is a Sanskrit word meaning "action," which is also a core concept in some Eastern religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism. In other words, Karma is the result of a person’s actions relating to cause and effect, what happens to a person happens because they caused it with their previous actions. Which is not true Karma according to the Teaching, as I understand it…
This is a gray area for many including myself. From retrospect, if a misdeed is done to someone in this incarnation, the spirit-form with a new personality will be exposed to a similar situation in future incarnations until that individual get it right. It’s my understanding that righting a wrong can also be done during the same lifetime. Reminds me of the movie “Groundhog Day”.
So, with all that in mind, we know something about the previous incarnation of D. Trump. If every personality is born with a clean slate, why are the Plejaren and Billy so against this person? I don’t think that he is currently eating humans for lunch. There is apparently something that he has done during this lifetime that is of great issue. Unless the Plejaren performed a future view, that we know nothing about?
Regards
Kenneth |
Joseph_emmanuel
Member
Post Number: 464
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2022 - 02:38 am: |
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All this talk about cause and effect, neutralising wrong actions, and so on, has made me think of the opposite.
What I mean is, when we talk about cause and effect, the consequences of our actions, we always talk about the effects brought upon us through wrongdoing: we do violence to ourselves when we do violence to others, and these effects need to be neutralised.
But what about when we do good to others? What effect does that create? I don't doubt that we do good to ourselves when we do good to others. Being kind, generous, helpful, and considerate always leaves one feeling good about oneself and even nurtures a healthy mental growth. But are the repercussions of our actions only ever experienced inwardly? Of course not. Criminals are punished in the world for their crimes. An empire that sets about conquering other nations eventually brings about its own demise. And yet for all the good I have done others, I don't recall being "rewarded" in any way. I don't recall having good returned to me. Just the opposite, in fact. Maybe my former personality wasn't a nice fellow. I have often wondered what have I done to deserve this life I have lived. I have only ever known selfish people, narcissists, egotists, people who are indifferent, non-committal, who don't care. And it was to these people I was kind and generous and helpful and considerate. And now, after fifty years, I feel it was a big error on my part to be this way with them; and I have become distrustful of people and distrustful of myself. I used to be so tolerant, so understanding, so reasonable, so willing to help. I used to say to myself: I might not be a successful man, but I am a successful human being. I don't think that anymore. I've never expected anything from anyone. But when I do someone good and he says to me, it will be returned to you, I don't believe that because I have never seen it work that way. |
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