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Archives-2000

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks » Archives-2000 « Previous Next »

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Inger Wikstrom
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2000 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all,
I know a couple that lives in an old house in the country. They say that there is a "ghost" living together with them. They've never seen it but felt it. The say when they're sitting in the sofa watching TV programs about things we usually think are mystical, such as ghosts and spirits etc, they have several times felt a cold "wind" sweeping past by and remain between them in the sofa until the program is over. Their dog, on the other hand, seams to actually see it, because the dog sometimes stare and follow something with its eyes but, as they say, they can't see anything there at all.
It's been told that the fluidal forces from previous lives come to our assistance in the present. The phenomenon we call ghost says to be caused by these fluidal forces. Is it possible that these fluidal forces are at work through "ghosts", which sometimes make themselves visible to us, and collect information in this age whereupon they send on this information to the special banks in the Akashic Records? Could it so then mean that the spirit form, who is our true "self", both collect information and knowledge through the ongoing material life and through the previous lives at the same time? Does anyone know anything about ghosts?

Regards,
Inger
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Inger Wikstrom
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Forum,
Test-tube fertilization is quite common nowadays. Furthermore, scientists are thinking about accomplishing "generation travels" in the future and bring frozen embryos on their journeys. The spirit form of the embryo is chosen at the fertilization but doesn't enter until the 21st day when the brain develops. Now, if a test-tube fertilization takes place on the Earth, and then frozen to later on be inseminated in deep space, far from the Earth, will the chosen spirit form, after the passing 21 days, cross the space to enter the embryo on board the space ship, no matter the distance? Or does the spirit form join the spaceship, and the embryo on board, when it leaves the Earth and its surrounding sphere with spirit forms on its journey into deep space?

Regards,
Inger
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Savio
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Inqer

You bring up a very interesting question indeed!

I have a follow up question - what would happen to the embryo if there is delay for the spirit in entering the embry? Say 45 days instead of 21 days after fertilization (It takes time for a spirit on earth to catch up the spaceship if it is not onboard).

On the other hand, if the embryo is being frozen, there will be no further development, I would think the 21 days should be counted right after it is unfrozen.

Regards

Savio
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Mark Campbell
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2000 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Inger ; Your question sounds like a great basis for a science fiction novel..."The Earthman without a Soul".I would like to add to the question . If the Earth baby was on an inhabited alien planet , would an alien soul enter into it, even if it were a lifeform much different than ours? Also , would there be problems inherent in that scenario , as in mental illness tendencies, or even birth defects. Thanks , Mark
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Victor Gatica
Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all, my question is: every how many years, centuries, millenniums delay one to reincarnate?
thanks, victor.
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Chris Frank
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting question, Victor. I've wondered that myself. I think I remember reading somewhere in the Talmud where it says that when we die we go to a place where we continue to learn, then we chose the time we come back.
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James Roy Mizar
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2000 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also read in this forum (archived) material that it has to do with evolution (without overpopulation the time in the "other-side" is supposed to be around 150 years at our current stage/level) yet it is set at around 50 or so years, I think that means we are not givin enough time to rest further I think it would create mental problems?

Salome
James
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Mark Campbell
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2000 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael ; Do you mean that the fluidal forces are stored in rings/ jewelry/statues and even work tools while we live? I thought the FF would reside only in the bones while we live also , but I assume that's not true. Salome, Mark
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Victor and interested readers...

Under normal circumstances where overpopulation is not a problem, the reincarnational cycle would be as follows: If a person would live to be 100 years old, then his spirit would stay on the "other side" for approximately 150 years...so 2/3 in the physical realm and 3/3 on the otherside. However, due to overpopulation, spirit forms are being pulled form the other side prematurely before having fully processed the previous incarnation. It is conceivable that a spirit form could enter a fetus seconds after having gone to the other side. This however is not normal and in my opinion contributes to so many confused people not knowing what is their true purpose in this life.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Scott Baxter
Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael

You mentioned something which I had asked earlier in the Forum, but never really received an answer to.

When a spirit is being reborn, can it resist the birth? In other words what causes the spirit to reincarnate even though it may not be ready. When a fetus begins its development and then after the 21st day it is inhabited by a spirit what draws that spirit to that body, is it automatic that when a body is conceived that it must be inhabited by a spirit form?

Salome
Scott B.
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Norm
Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott, I would love an answer to that question, because I really don't want to comeback to this planet, if I don't have too.
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Mark and interested readers...

Fluidal forces are indeed impressed or absorbed by all objects e.g. tools, clothing, books that one reads, rings, walls, etc. When a loved one dies it may be of consolation to have a possession that was close to them around, and in that way, feel that their presence or vibe is somewhat close at hand. The more/ longer an object has been around an individual, the more the object is intensely saturated with that person's fluidal forces.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott and all...

Every fetus requires a spirit on the 21st day. In my opinion, the older the spirit form, the more directed are its incarnations. I would think that this would include the when, where and how (M or F). For example, do you think it was an accident that Billy was born precisely at the midway point of the transition period between the Age of Pisces and the Age of Aquarius? ...in Switzerland? Additionally, in chapter 15 of theTJ lines 80/81 , Jmmanuel states:
80. "Yet,by the end of two thousand years the new prophet will reveal my unfalsified teaching to small groups, as I also teach to small groups of trusted friends and disciples the wisdom and knowledge and laws of the spirit and of Creation."
81. "Nevertheless, his path will be very difficult and full of obstacles, because he will begin his mission in a peace-loving country in the North, ruled by a rigid false cult based upon scriptural distortions of my teachings."

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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lelafyffe
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Scott

I also would like to know the spirit is matched to the new body. On what levels are the matches made.

Salome Lela Fyffe
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Scott Baxter
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lela

My question was more in regards to overpopulation in the sense that as new fetus's are created through procreation is it automatic that as the fetus is formed that it must be inhabited by a spirit form automatically.

From what I can tell at least for the majority of mankind this is somewhat an automatic process. It must be a law of Creation that in a sense guarantees the survival of the species. If spirit forms knew that they were going to be born into dire circumstances, to me it would stand to reason that some may not choose to be born because of the conditions they would meet upon birth. Maybe as a being becomes more spiritual in his thinking the choices for rebirth might have a greater degree of latitude, but knowing that all life no matter what course it follows at some point will cause the spirit to evolve.

As far as matching between the Spirit form and the body, I believe it has to do with the evolution of the spirit and the evolution of the physical body that will be inhabited.

If I understand it correctly the spirit carries the intelligence and wisdom, so the brain must be matched in the sense that the proper connections can be made so that the spirit can transmit to the brain and the rest of the body all the correct information needed so that the brain and all of the systems can function correctly. This intelligence and wisdom is transmitted to the brain in the form of acids. As it was mentioned in the contact notes, these acids can be transplanted into the brain of a lower life form, and his/her evolution can be brought up to a higher level. In this way whole races in a sense could be moved up to a higher level with regards to intelligence and wisdom.

Interesting ideas...

Salome
Scott
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Ardie Fox
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since fluidal forces can be absorbed by/ or cling to objects, how concerned should we be about such things as collecting antiques, sharing clothing, sleeping in beds other than your own, etc.?

A certain amount of this would be unavoidable, but would it be wise to limit it to a certain degree?

Ardie
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Andrew C. Cossette
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 06:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello dear Ardie,

I hope you have been well. You bring up a good point that I agree with 100%. Personally, I try to avoid these kinds of contacts (with objects, etc.) for the exact reasons you mention. My wife and I, as well, do not share books either. The forces that are active are better left to the owner.

Over the years I have also stayed away from 'used clothing' and other "owned" objects. An example would be when my wife bought a chain recently. After purchasing it, the chain is not worn until being cleaned under the pyramid. I have done this for years with all kinds of jewelry. I think that your common sense post above holds some validity if you look at the facts mentioned in the FIGU teachings and the earlier information I had posted in this forum.

Kind regards,
Andrew C. Cossette
FIGU Passive Group
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Anthony, Michael H. and all...

I would like to comment and clarify a point on Anthony's Nov. 4th posting where he stated the following:
"That's why I think FIGU recommends burial over cremation; that way a corpse can
decay slowly over time, and the related consciousness can remain, for the most part, solely around the body until the spirit enters the material in a new incarnation."

Both the spirit and the comprehensive consciousness (which contains the personality) depart from the material realm when a person dies. The 'related consciousness' does not remain. It is the fluidal forces which remain in the corpse and to a lesser degree, in the person's close possessions, eg. ring, watch, clothes, home, etc.
The fluidal forces can remain in the bones for up to millions of years depending on the type of soil.
The fluidal forces provide a feedback loop or connection to previous lives or the past of the current life and are activated when a person indulges in very deep memories or mulls over unresolved issues already encountered in the past. This way a person can get information unconsciously from previous lives whereby he can slowly get a grip on his unresolved problems.
When the body is cremated, the possibility of connecting back to that particular life is eliminated thereby restraining the evolution of that person.
Fluidal forces deposited in objects do not contain all the information and are too weak to replace the function of a body if it has been cremated.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Rick Nelson
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Michael U.,

When you say "The fluidal forces can remain in the bones for up to millions of years depending on the type of soil," is this longevity based on the bones remaining intact? Are the fluidal forces still active if the bones decompose and mix with the soil? Does the process of mummification as practiced by the ancient Egyptians and others extend the activity of the fluidal forces? I apologize for the multiple questions. You bring up interesting points and the questions are unavoidably related.

Peace,

Rick Nelson
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Michael Horn
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Michael,

Thank you very much for the above information. This opens new thoughts to consider such as how accidental or deliberate incinerations of persons in fires, bomb blasts, etc. can potentially negatively affect one's evolution. This leads me to believe that human evolution in itself would certainly require astronomical numbers of incarnations and years in light of the capricious occurences that probably befall us all at one, or more likely many, times throughout our spirit's evolution. Such things, if I understand correctly, may act to temporarily "derail" our progress in the next life when we would otherwise have the benefit of the (unconscious) connections from/to the fluidal forces.

I also wonder if such groups as the Nazi's, or the negative ET's that supported them, knew of this and utlized the gas ovens with the knowledge of the further damage it would do to those who they destroyed in that manner.

Another consequence would seem to be that travelers from other worlds, who may have been quite evolved, who became stranded and died here would be very much disadvantaged then in future terrestrial incarnations by not having any access to their fluidal forces from previous other-world incarnations.

It also now seems to me that various so-called primitive and indigenous peoples who make a big deal out of the bones of their ancestors being properly buried are not foolish after all. Perhaps this understanding came from contacts in their far distant past with ET's who taught these things.

Michael, is there anything more to be said on how to contemplate or direct one's thoughts so as to open access to previous fluidal forces?

Thanks,

Michael
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Norm
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But what about the Hindu's in India. They believe in cremation & reincarnation. Maybe the ETs taught them wrong on purpose. Or they got things completely confused by themselves.
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Savio
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello

I would like to have a better understanding regarding Fluidal Forces(FF) on its logic and how it works.

We understand that FF is a kind of energy at a certain frequency that stays in bones for million of years and rejoin a person in his new life (reincarnation).

The question is - are we generating the same old FF frequency every time we have a new life? If yes, once we lose our connection due to cremation, we lose all the connections to our previous lives.

However, if we generate different FF frequency in each life time and all of those will rejoin us in the new life, losing one connection due to cremation seems not vital because we still have millions of FF generated in our pass lives.

Any comments?

Regards

Savio
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Norm
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What happens if you get eaten by a shark or some animal.
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Anthea
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Norm :)

The poor animal gets a terrible tummy-ache! ;D (Just kidding)

Regards,
Anthea
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Michael H...

In response to your question, the following Q and A will be interesting: (please note that this is an unofficial translation of FIGU material)

Question: Can one also consciously activate the fluidal forces ?

Billy: The consciousness plays only a small role in an unconscious form. For example, when one dreams, impulses can be passed from the unconscious of the consciousness to the subconsciousness, and then the subconsciousness is the one that mobilizes impulses so the fluidal forces can become active. In such a case, a memory can become active. In such a case, a memory can become conscious as a dream experience or it canarise as a presentiment through a feeling -like suspicion; it is comparable to a person getting to know something from the Akashic Records in a presentiment-like manner.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Anthea
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mike U.

What FIGU publication are you "unofficially" quoting from? It would be nice to know even if it is only available in German at present. Thanks :).

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Michael Horn
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Michael U.,

Thanks for this, it seems like there is quite a bit about the consciousness, unconscious, subconscious and connection to the fluidal forces to be recognized and learned. I also surmise that there will be much need for trial and error and observation to sensitize ourselves to notice when these things are manifesting.

Oh what a tiny fragment of reality we are able to perceive.

Michael
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Rick Nelson
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

If in the quiet time before one falls asleep at night, he or she asks his or her spirit for help solving a particular problem or resolving a difficulty in the present time, what is the route or mechanism through which that help might be summoned?

Is the subconscious the link or intermediary between the conscious and the spirit?

Thanks for your consideration.

Peace,

Rick Nelson
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Scott Baxter
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello

Without going to far off of the topic, it seems their are certain aspects of spiritual knowledge we are missing. It has been stated in the Talmud the spirit needs knowledge to be powerful.

What is this knowledge which leads to this understanding? Is this knowledge something that is taught, or is this something we must learn for ourselves?

I think the beginning stages of this maybe the development of the use of concentration. It was stated in the Psyche on how one can learn concentration, but to what end? Also in the Meditation book one of the main focuses of Meditation is the ability to concentrate on a singular activity such as the air passing along the inner portion of the nose. What can this lead too?

I have thought that when we learn the workings of our consciousness, subconsciousness etc., that we can learn to focus on one specific mental image by the use of concentration which will somehow harness the power of the spirit to bring about results.

I have experimented with this in a certain way. When I am at a public place such as an airport I will find a place to sit and then pick out a person in the crowd who is engaged in reading a magazine or some innoncent activity. I will relax my mind and then attempt to place a thought in that persons mind by seeing it in my own mind. What I usually do is that I will suggest to that person mentally to scratch the top of their head with their left hand. When things are right I can almost feel myself become one with that person for a moment and then more times than not they will scratch their head without even realizing what occurred. You can try this with animals such as cats or dogs. Many times I have been able to quiet barking dogs by reaching the dog mentally and comforting it with certain words or feelings.

This may sound far out, but I have demonstrated it to myself a number of times so that I know it works.

Salome
Scott
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Jean Pierre Lagasse
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Rick,

Eighteenth contact, unofficial translations:

"107/A prayer is truely a wish; a wishful call upon the spirit of the human being himself (the Creation part in the Creation collective), meaning grant me this or that. 108/Those who are conscious of the force, the knowledge, and the ability of their spirit, no longer resort to such prayers because they already live in the knowledge that the power and might of their spirit is capable of anything. 109/For that reason, they determine constantly, the might of their spirit. 110/The unspiritualized one, being unaware, is unable, thus seeks to activate his spirit by conscious prayer... 111/Further explained, this means that the spiritualized human is always using the forces and abilities of his spirit, and quite consciously, while the unspiritualized one expresses only wishes in prayer, and those to an exterior power/force (usually personified), when the source is within through his personal contact with The Creation itself."

I hope the above might be of interest... although it doesn't quite answer your question.
JPLagasse
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Anthea...

The source of the fluidal forces information comes from "Stimme der Wassermannzeit" Nr. 112, September 1999.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Rick Nelson
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Jean Pierre,

Thank you for the translation about wishes, prayer and the power of the spirit. Perhaps auto-suggestion is a better alternative for summoning the power of the spirit for those that are just beginning on the road to enlightenment. Do you know anything about the mechanism by which auto-suggestion works? It seems a way of internal confidence building, possibly through the repetition of positive visualization.

I believe Mr. Meier commented that auto-suggestion is of fundamental importance to the human being. Does anyone know why?

Peace,

Rick Nelson
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Anthea
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 07:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rick,

When you speak about "auto-suggestion" do you mean "self-suggestion" or "self-hypnosis"?

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Andrew C. Cossette
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rick,

I agree with Anthea. There might be a mistake in your wording. Billy has mentioned to me that "auto-suggestion" is not a trait we should carry -- i.e., it is a negative force. If you are referring to 'self-suggestion', then your comment would better apply. Where did you hear or read about Billy's "comments" you mention above?

Regards,
Andrew C. Cossette
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Rick Nelson
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Anthea and Andrew,

I may have made an error as you indicate, and if so, I apologize for the confusion. I really don't know the difference between auto-suggestion and self-suggestion; I thought they are one in the same.

The comment I attributed to Mr. Meier came from the "49 Questions" booklet. I don't have a copy in my possession so cannot quote it directly. I don't mean to set anyone off on a wild-goose-chase over my possible mis-statement.

Peace,

Rick Nelson
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Anthea
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2000 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rick, :)

You are referring to pg 29, no. 34 "What is hypnosis?..." in the booklet "49 Questions".

"Hypnosis and self-hypnosis, suggestion and auto-suggestion are very valuable cornerstones of life. They are applicable and effective in every sphere of life. But one has to fully realize that hypnosis or self-hypnosis must never be utilized for negative intents."

As Andrew mentioned in his post above; if we do not fully understand this principle it can become a negative force.

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Rick Nelson
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Anthea,

Thanks, you correctly found the quote to which I was referring.

Do you have any ideas about how suggestion and auto-suggestion might be properly utilized in one's life for positive results? Say, for instance, I am lacking in the self-confidence and positive resolve to effectively turn around my struggling business, and this prevents me from providing a satisfactory living for my family, which is my fundamental materialistic goal.

Do you have any recommendations on how suggestion or auto-suggestion might be effectively utilized in this instance?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Peace,

Rick Nelson
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Anthea
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 08:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Rick,

I don't know enough about auto-suggestion, etc. to give you an accurate answer.

I know, however, that neutral-positive thinking is the state of mind that is recommended in the teachings as a means of attaining balance and success in all spheres of daily living.

Michael U. posted some of the information about neutral-positive thinking from the "Psyche" (unofficial translation) under the heading: "The Spiritual Teachings: Thinking And Thoughts: Thinking And Thoughts - Part 2: Thinking And Thoughts - Part 3" on Mon, 9th Oct, 2000. You can also do a keyword search by typing in "neutral-positive".

I have found reading the "Desiderata" and "Life in the Spiritual and Physical" by Billy (on the official FIGU site) informative too.

Hope this helps :)

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Anthea
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All :)

Anyone have an opinion about whether it is beneficial to keep someone alive artificially when that person is confirmed "brain dead" ie. having irreversible loss of brain function as indicated by a persistent flat electroencephalogram?

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Michael Horn
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wouldn't this be comparable to the same idea as a newborn having to be able to breathe on its own? In other words, couldn't this (artificially prolonging life and, in this case, unconsciousness) be considered as acting against nature?

Michael
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Anthea
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael :)

I am a bit unclear as to what you mean by "a newborn having to be able to breathe on its own".

A newborn is not normally "unconscious" (unless there are serious complications) either before, at, or directly after birth. Usually, if the baby does not automatically start breathing after delivery, the attending physician would hold the baby by it's ankles, upside down, and give it a firm pat to dislodge any obstructing mucuous etc. and the baby breathes of its own volition. (I speak here from personal experience! :)).

I was referring more to, for example, a person that has for some reason lost consciousness due to a serious accident or illness.

Kind Regards,
Anthea
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Michael Horn
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Anthea,

Yes, I probably should have said a premature baby, although this is a bit fuzzy these days as many of these babies that wouldn't have otherwise survived do so with medical intervention and then go on to live otherwise normal lives.

Michael
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Savio
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 02:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello

I think if there is an equipment or a person that/who can detect the presence of the spirit within a body can help alot.

It is possible because spirit is electro-magnetic energy(mentioned somewhere?) which can be detected. The issue is technology and when?

There is a report that the body weight of the patient drops slightly and suddenly when he/she dies(weight lost due the spirit departed?). Perhaps then we can remove all life supporting equipment.

Just some thoughts.

Regards

Savio
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Ardie Fox
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Savio,

I assume that the spirit stays with the body even though the person may be brain dead and is being kept alive by artificial means and would not leave until the life support has been removed.

It would be interesting to find out if that is wrong though and that the spirit actually leaves when the brain shows no activity.

Salome,

Ardie
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Andrew C. Cossette
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ardie,

Hope you are well.

As long as there is 'life', there is an inhabiting spirit whether the brain is "dead" or not. As long as the body is alive, the spirit is in there, so-to-speak.

Regards,
Andrew Cossette
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Michael Davo
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,

What will be the case when maximum terrestrial lifespan is 1,000 years and an individual suffers brain death at, say, 70 years of life, but technology allows for life support to continue until the body wears out 930 years later?

Technology and $$$ (i.e., material evolution) seem to be the deciding factors on a moral as well as an ethical basis. Is it morally as well as ethically correct for the Yanomani to murder their deformed newborns because of their perceived low level of evolution, but morally and ethically incorrect for technologically advanced societies to permit euthanasia because of their perceived high level of evolution? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought material and spiritual evolution were exclusive of one another. What I mean is that the Yanomani may very well be more spiritually evolved than their technologically advanced counterparts. In this case, if murder of deformed newborns is morally and ethically justified, then in a relative manner, so should be euthanasia.

Best regards,

Michael Davo
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Savio
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 06:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ardie

I think Andrew is right, our understanding regarding Spirit is 1. if the spirit leaves the body, the human drops dead immediately, it is because spirit is the power source of life. Hence death can be defined as "Spirit left the body".

However, we also know that 2. if a human dies, the spirit leaves for the beyond.

A question of logic - regarding a patient, Which one is the true scenario?

a. The body is so badly worn out, it cannot support life anymore, hence the spirit is forced to leave, then the patient dies. (this scenario matches the above 1. condition and is quite clear cut)

2. The patient dies due too badly worn out, then the spirit leaves the body. (this scenario matches the above 2. condition but has a problem of how to define a patient is dead).

Which scenario you prefer?

Regards

Savio
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Ardie Fox
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Savio,

I think it can probably happen both ways. If a person was in a horrible accident and the body is beyond repair, the spirit would be forced to leave. (Or is it possible that the spirit knows what is going to happen and leaves the instant before the traumatic accident?)

In the case of a long illness, when there is no hope for recovery and the body is giving out, maybe the spirit leaving is what causes the actual death.

It is an interesting question, kind of like "Which comes first? The chicken or the egg?"

Ardie
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Jean Pierre Lagasse
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,

I think that as long as the spirit finds some use in having the physical body stay alive, then that's the way it should be.
I also think that the spirit has abilities & perceptions which we can only guess about...

The above point(s) may be "in spite of" what the physical body / mentality thinks.

Kind Regards,
JPLagasse
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Ed
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a reader, still in the wings of this forum, living in the Netherlands i'd like to comment on this and give it some perspective.

Any continuation of life beyond any added value to that life is not a natural end for that life, it's a unnatural prolonging of it.

No doctor is entitled to end a life without written consent from the one choosing to end their life of misery and unending agony. If the person is not able to, or has no written consent, but the suffering is unbearable, the family has a right to decide whether or not to continue treatment.

This is passive euthanasia, not active. Active euthanasia is still prohibited.

Now, in my view of things, no one other than myself has the right to decide what will happen with my life. I have the choice to end it or not.

If i've reached the end of my life expectancy and i would have the possibility to live another year but in great pain, i would not. I would choose to pass over quietly, in peace.

No one judges you for that, you are the only one that judges yourself, and i won't blame myself if i decided to take my life based on this.

Ed
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Savio
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2000 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed

I agree to your points regarding the Unnatural Prolonging of the suffering of a patient is not of any good; hence discontinue the treatment and let the hopeless patient passes away naturally may be considered acceptable (passive euthanasia).

However, I think we do not have the right to decide life and death over our own lives.

For reference, the related information in the Talmud Jmmanuel 26:52 "Even thought the human being has a free will to demand his rights and govern himself, he does not have the right to decide over his life or death"; 26:57 "The laws say that no event or situation justifies suicide, and this includes suicide carried out by other persons such as hired murderers or mercy killers".

Any comments?

Regards

Savio
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Michael Horn
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2000 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

As burial has been espoused as a preference over cremation as a means of preserving the fluidal forces, it seems that there may be a dilemma brewing which presents an interesting challenge to the idea of future self-interest, let alone existence.

Based on information which is now surfacing regarding the prevalence of Mad Cow Disease (perhaps the "other" dreadful epidemic referred to in Contact 251), the offending organisms can not be destroyed by anything less than temperatures in the 1800 degree F. range.

This appears to mean that the bodies of people who die from this disease act as repositories for these organisms which may ultimately find their way back into the environment and food chain under certain circumstances.

Without intending to trivialize the potential real tragedy of this dreadful disease I ask if the process of cremation, as a means of contributing to stopping the possibility of the proliferation of this disease, should now be reconsidered as providing a greater good for humanity overall, even if the evolutionary benefits to the individual reincarnating human spirits (associated, as we understand them from the material, with the fluidal forces) suffer in the process?

Anyone care to tackle this issue?

Regards,

Michael
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Savio
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 02:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael H.

I recall some interesting episodes of movies regarding "alien attack" stories that even very tough aliens can be killed easily by say water, music.... something good for earthings but bad for them.

If a patient who died of mad cow disease is buried, could the chemical environment inside the grave kill that disease? May be or may not be, perhaps what we know about this disease is too little.

I think perhaps it would not affect much if we lose a few times FF connection during our million times reincarnations.

Any comments?

Regards

Savio
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Michael Uyttebroek
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 06:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Anthea and all...
With regards to your question pertaining to euthanasia: In contact 34 , Billy and Semjase discuss this very topic. Semjase explains how it is possible due to some injury etc., for the body to remain biologically alive while there is no possibility for thinking or physical activity...you could say, that if this damage is irreversible, then this person would belong to the 'living dead'. Where the consciousness and sub-consciousness can no longer function and the spirit sinks into darkness and uselessness, no longer able to fulfil its obligation, and this state is irreversible, then according to Billy and the Plejarens, euthanasia as a natural law of real humanity is fully justified.
However, it is against Creation and nature if euthanasia gets performed because one is tired of life, of pain, of sorrow and grief, of old age, of loneliness or if the person feels useless, or is afraid of their desease and its effects or is fearful of the end of life etc.
Of course, the irreversibility of an injury is relative to our current level of medical development here on Earth, which is obviously far behind the highly advanced sciences of the Plejarens and their allies.

Salome, Michael Uyttebroek
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Ed
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 07:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Savio,

I do not feel in any way 'forced' to structure my life upon the 'wisdom' of other peoples written word. Whether it's the Thora, Quran, Bible, Veda's , Edda etc..etc...

So whatever the Talmud says on this subject, it's irrelevant to me. It's like been given a present and the giver of that present still wants to have control over what you gonna do with the present.

I decide over my life and death, no-one else BUT me has the right to decide over my life and death, i'd like to challenge anybody who will or thinks they can.

(-:
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Scott B.
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Ed

I dont think the intentions of the ideas regarding the taking of ones life is meant in the vein of who has control over your life or death.

I think it has more to do with the laws of the Spirit and Creation. I think the idea behind it, is that the purpose of life is for the Spirit to experience all aspect of life from beginning to end. In a sense we are doing a dis-service to the Spirit when we shorten its ability to live out its existance and then depart according to the way nature intended.

These are just my opinions, does anyone else have any ideas on this subject?

Salome
Scott
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Savio
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed

I fully agree with you that no one should force anybody to accept any concept/wisdom.

My concept regarding life and death is just my conclusion after searching for the purpose of life, on which, everyone has his/her own answer.

I think, whatever our answer will be, we will not really have the absolute right on our own death afterall; this is because we still have responsibility towards our parents, children, spouse, society, country ....etc.

Any comment?

Regards

Savio
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Ed
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Scott,

How are we to know what Spirit wants? There is a euthanasia experience for Spirit aswell, isn't there?

But what it comes down to, is that we are told through western religions and the Talmud that this is not proper conduct. Again, this is what we are told.

How do you know it is so? You would have to assume it's truth.

But mostly it's 'feel', isn't it? And with me, it just doesn't 'feel' right to denie, on the basis of what the Talmud claims, or the Bible for that matter, every peoples inherent right to decide on their own lifes.

I accept all responsability for my own actions.

Ed
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Ed
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Savio,

Responsability, an empowering word but for all the wrong reasons.

As long as you don't have any children, you are NOT responsabel for anyone but yourself. You have the responsability to life your life from the Love you are and from that all things come.

That doesn NOT mean you have responsability towards your parents, spouse, society and especially your country.

When you act from your un-covered Heart of Love, being responsibel is fleeting and unnecessary.

Perhaps you feel responsibel for all of those things, i do not. I have no children and the only one responsibel for me is me and i do not feel responsability for anyone else.

So if there comes a point i see no use in living anymore, for whatever reason, i will take my life in my hands and give it back to Love. No-one else but me can do that.

Ed
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Savio
Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed

I am afraid I cannot agree with you this time :)

The concept presented is that one is not responsible to anything if he/she has no children. The concept is then conditional, it cannot be applied to anyone with children, hence not a complete/all round concept; e.g. no absolute right.

Just imagine how hurt and disappointed it would be to the parents, friends, teachers...etc if one committed suicide, not to mention setting example for others to follow. It seems that we are not able to free from responsibility if we live among human.

As I mentioned before, our concept depends on our answer to the purpose of life. Would you care to share with us your concept about "Love" e.g Heart of Love, give it back to Love.

Regards

Savio
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Jean Pierre Lagasse
Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed, all,

“How are we to know what Spirit wants?”

I think you posed the “all directing” question, right there!
If I understand (at least in part) what you are saying, Until we KNOW what spirit wants, we can’t really decide what is best for our own spirits, never mind anybody else’s!
I also agree with you in that “our own best guidance” must be followed until then.

If we had the technology to measure spirit, we would KNOW the answers to the questions raised in this recent “string” of this forum…!

If I “read” the Plejarans correctly… IF we took what they say “as gospel”, this would be counter-productive to the message/info they are giving. They went to “great lengths” to present “their info” in such a way that we would not “swallow it unconditionally”. The “proof but no proof” concept applies, as well as others.

The information presented on the FIGU board is intensively Plejaran, but, is that not to be expected on this site? Please do not take the “interest/intensity” of this involvement as “Gospel works”!

Until we have the technology (& spiritual) abilities, I (& others also!) will find great value in studying the “proposed model of our universe/spirituality” given to us by the Plejarans… it gives (myself & others) much to contemplate, particularly when there is such a high probability that it is truth!!!!!!!

Love & Life,
JPLagasse
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Ed
Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If my hurting is so bad i have no other option than to end my life, it is my responsability to me not to think of my parents, friends etc...

It's egoisme backwards. Because i love someone, then it doesn't matter if that person hurts beyond comprehension, he/she gotta keep hurting 'coz i don't want to feel the pain of losing that person.

I am solely responsible for my own actions and the way i act towards other people, and there that responsability stops.

In my view, All (Creation) is Love, Love is a word that cannot explain what Love is, it merely gives you a sense of Love.

Love does not judge, Love does not care, Love does not hurt, Love does not do anything but Love. We as humans are part of that Love as anything else is, to un-cover that Love means to have reached Heaven within. Doubt, confusion, emotional pain, the search for answers dissolve into Love.

After death, our Essence of Being returns to Love, there is no judgment by anyone but you. If you lost judgment in life after death there is no judgment too, not even if you took your own life.

In discussing God through Christ with Christians i realised that it doesn't matter what semantics you use, there is one way of reaching God and that's through Christ.

I'd like to add that the Talmud takes on the role of the Bible here, the word of Immanuel becomes gospel and you all discuss this as theologeans would. Is this a good thing?

No religion, no church, remember?

Ed
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Brock Bradford
Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello JPLagasse and all...

Thanks for bringing up the proposed model of the Universe/Spirituality by the Plejarans…. If we compare it with any other model of the same….that is with all of the existing religions of this Earth, our western sciences, new age channelers and guru’s….when now we can look into space with the Hubble telescope and see how vast, far reaching, chock full of stars this tiny section of the Universe is….If we think about all of the above proposed models, with just a little bit of logic from our tiny brains….we can see what model will hold up to this ever expanding new view of the Universe.

May all be well

Brock
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Ed
Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear all,

If i understand the Akashic Records properly it's just another word for the un-knowing Knowledge of gnosis. In my view there is no need for a model for we, as humans, are the most direct model there is.

We as humans are no different from Creation as any part of Creation. If we are to know Creation it's important to get to know yourselfs.

I know how it works, and why it's important for people to be told how it works, according to beings with much greater intellingence than ours, but it is unnecessary.

The human body and Mind holds all Knowledge, you just need to tap into it, empty yourself to Love and release your ego.

But it's o.k., i just felt on the subject of euthanasia some clarification was needed, whatever else is needed for you to become clear is just as good, and not for me to judge.

Have a good new-year.
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george
Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, everybody here is The Hint for all of that discussion - can you really love another when you don't love yourself???

regards
George
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Savio
Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed

We exchange point of views in this discussionboard so that we can learn from each other. During this learning process, we discuss/make reference to the Meier case and/or Talmud that is very natural, the same as the text books in school. The only rule is that we shall not take it as is but through observation and own logical thinking.

I think we can better understand your concept against euthanasia if you can share with us your road map on getting to know/learn about creation/love and how did you convince yourself that what you learned is true.

Regards

Savio
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Ed
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 01:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I spoke in favor of euthanasia, Savio, for if it's your choice you have that right.

I like the way you use words to stirr things up a little, but it's actually the other way round.
There is no one Truth, there is only experience to percieve. I don't care about anyone elses perception of Truth because it's not mine and i cannot and will not live by another man's Truth.

Instead of talking Talmud here, perhaps it's of interest to start a thread on Plejerans take on advanced metaphysics, especially the inherent Being of God humans possess.

In my experience, un-covering your Christ-essence is un-covering the True innerSelf. This is something i don't believe to be true or ever needed to convince myself of, it is just the way it is.

(-:
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Michael Horn
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed,


It seems that in each your statements you are indeed referring to someone else's perception of truth, i.e. "...un-covering your Christ-essence is un-covering the True innerSelf.", "...especially the inherent Being of God humans possess." These terms/concepts, i.e. Christ-essence, Being of God, most certainly are someone else's "truth" or, at the very least, someone else's language and concepts.

They are religious concepts that existed long prior to your own existence and to which you have been exposed, as most all of us have been. So when you say, "This is something i don't believe to be true or ever needed to convince myself of, it is just the way it is.", you are perhaps a bit contradictory. I read it as something that you do indeed believe to be true and have been convinced of either from your own active or passive exposure to religious ideas and thinking.

I also hope that you do care about other people's truth or perception of truth as far as even the most mundane matters are concerned. I refer to little things like not running red traffic lights, paying for goods and services, not inflicting undesired harm, etc.

Regards,

Michael
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Jean Pierre Lagasse
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Ed,

It’s always interesting to have new people on the board!

“…perhaps it's of interest to start a thread on Plejerans take on advanced metaphysics, especially the inherent Being of God humans possess.”

Info on this can be found elsewhere on this site, in FIGU publications & also under current and archived posts under various headings or titles. There is much information given. Also, information on this is spread throughout the “unofficial” contact note translations by Wendell Stevens (although some errors do exist).

Many of the points & questions you bring up are covered in these areas, and the information is often given in such a way that various “spiritual levels of understanding” are spoken to.
Much of this information is “esoteric” in nature, in that once understanding begins, the differences between “contemporary religious terms” and the Plejaran definitions become more pronounced and “plain”. Plejaran definitions are much more precise and detailed than contemporary terms. They also make more sense!
The Plejarans (etc.) have a much broader and extensive knowledge of these matters than what we have been accustomed to, so that although some of the differences seem trivial and inconsequential at first, when concept is learned upon concept, the overall direction of this knowledge does not give “dead ends”… as is common with contemporary religious concepts.

Although much information is given in the Talmud, the bulk of what I understand (& have studied) comes mostly from the contact notes both unofficial and official as well as information given on this site and this forum.

I hope this might help…
JPLagasse
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Ed
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Micheal,

It's your prerogative to feel whatever you want to feel about anything, really. I have no thought or concept about your perception of Truth, i can only go by mine.

I surely have to use words in order to communicate but semantics are not the issue here. Whatever experience i was subjected to, through whatever means, no matter how i choose to put into words what i experienced, it will always be mine and it's all i can go by.

I can only share my views on things and communicate my sense of Truth to others, this doesn't mean i want to convince others to my point of view, that's irrelevant.

What mundane matters are concerned, why bother yourself with hoping?

Ed
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Mark Campbell
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JP ,Michael ,Senors ;
Very well put, JP . The direction of the development of humans with the knowledge of Creation is founded on a solid foundation , fearless honesty , and an ability to see things as they really are , and to become autonomous and away from the conformity of the masses.This is why time and again only small groups have existed that were based on Creational knowledge . This may help the newer people in the forum , to know that the apparent truth in these teachings will unfold to you the more you learn and ponder this new level of reality that is made available to you.
= Mark
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Marc Juliano
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Ed, Jean Pierre, Michael, et al,

I realize that in order to define your opinions and views on euthanasia or death, etc., you need to draw from what information you all have individually acquired on the road of life.

However, I suggest that if you want to discuss broad topics such as what is Truth to you or how you derived your Truth and so forth, you should pursue it in one of the miscellaneous, non-FIGU-related topic threads under the General Area so that we can stay on the topic at hand.

Keep in mind: Although the FIGU Forum is obviously not a place that's opposed to the sharing of personal views and experiences related to a topic, the underlying theme should be oriented/related to FIGU teachings. I need not mention that forums abound on the Web where you can discuss the veracity of your belief system as compared with others; we have a specific focus in this Forum so that those interested in FIGU's information can learn more about it.

Please remind yourself of the current topic(s) at hand whenever posting a new message. And thanks for understanding.

Regards,
Marc
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Ed
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 12:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

O.k.,

On the subject of active euthanasia, which is still prohibited in the Netherlands, i would like to say the following.

An uncle of a friend of mine, contracted cancer of the colon. This was discovered in a late stage and he couldn't be saved. As his illness progressed, in the hospital, he slipped into a coma. But even in his coma he suffered great agony which could not be sedated, not even with large doses of morphine.

Here was a man who's suffering continued even in a coma. This was more than his family could bare to see and although he had not long to live anyway, they decided to actively euthanize him.

I ask you: what use did his life have for the short period it was about to last, besides giving him great pain?

Would you let a loved one suffer like that even if you are capable of relieving his/hers suffering?

Ed
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Savio
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ed

Can we apply what Michael U posted on December 23?

Quoted :" With regards to your question pertaining to euthanasia: In contact 34 , Billy and Semjase discuss this very topic. Semjase explains how it is possible due to some injury etc., for the body to remain biologically alive while there is no possibility for thinking or physical activity...you could say, that if this damage is irreversible, then this person would belong to the 'living dead'. Where the consciousness and sub-consciousness can no longer function and the spirit sinks into darkness and uselessness, no longer able to fulfil its obligation, and this state is irreversible, then according to Billy and the Plejarens, euthanasia as a natural law of real humanity is fully justified. "

It sounds quite logical.

Savio

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