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Archive through October 20, 2003

Discussionboard of FIGU » The Creation-energy Teaching » Reincarnation, Death and the Storage Banks » Archive through October 20, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Scott B.
Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 05:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Edward,

Thanks for the follow-up. I am familiar with Mr. Winters in the context that I have listened to him talk a few times and have his book.

I try to keep things in the perspective when I mention something he has said, that indeed it may not be true. I don't know all of the errors which have been discovered in his book, but I try not to take anything from his works as absolute fact.

If someone has noticed something I've quoted from him, hopefully I can either back it up with information that FIGU has already established as being correct or provide a credible source.

Thanks
Scott
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Lonnie
Member

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Christian,

Concerning reincarnation, there is something I and a few others would like to know for sure. I was going to pose this question to Billy but I think you know the answer.

After the death, and the spirit enters the beyond, do we come back in the next life within a 1000 mile radius of where we died? Or, can we come back anywhere on the planet depending on what the spirit determines for us?

Lonnie
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To the Moderator: Please accept my apologies if this post is too long. And I hope you will overlook it just this once. Thanks. Joseph

In response to Eduard Meier’s answer to Lonnie’s last question, I felt compelled to point out an apparent contradiction that I have put forward as my question to him. Lonnie’s question was as posted above on 8th May, and Eduard’s answer, in brief, was: “As a rule, people are reincarnated into the same culture, race or nation etc. where they died. This means that, e.g. an Afro-American person in the USA will reincarnate as an Afro-American person again in the USA and not in Africa. . . A spirit form will not reincarnate in France, then in Tibet, in Nigeria, and in Greenland. . . Incarnations occur within the group of people and cultures where one lived (and thought!) in one's former life.“ And my question to him is: “If this is so, how is it that your spirit has reincarnated as a Jew in Israel, then an Arab in Arabia (Mecca) and then as a Swiss in Switzerland?”

At the time of asking this I thought he might be mistaken. After all, seeing as he claims that his spirit had embodied the lives of Jmmanuel and Mohammed before him, it was only natural to think this, surely. But early yesterday morning, while in discussion with someone, I thought that possibly he isn’t mistaken. My reason for thinking this was something I said, which had something to do with changing the way one thinks in order to change one’s life. As soon as I said this I thought about what Eduard had said about the human spirit reincarnating into the same culture, race or nation where one lived and died. In life we are naturally drawn to that with which we are familiar more so than we are drawn to that with which we are not familiar. The reason for this is because it doesn’t offend us by challenging our thinking, our understanding, our beliefs, our lifestyles, our values, our experiences and customs, like that with which we are not familiar would; and also because change always requires a conscious effort to be made on the part of an individual. And as this is something we are only able to do – at least at this point in our spiritual evolution – while in possession of our lives, it therefore makes sense that the human spirit would do likewise. However, it must be possible at some point in its evolution for it to incarnate in a different culture, race or nation, and this, I believe, would occur when an individual’s consciousness develops and changes so as not to hold on to old ways. I am certain the key factor here for a more creative spiritual existence is the same factor that allows each individual to live a creative life, and that is having no preconceptions, no prejudices, no preferences, no likes or dislikes, but learning to be impartial, to be open to all the world and not just to part of it. If we are open to part of the world, then we will naturally be drawn to that part of the world, and not to any other part of the world. If you say in your consciousness that you are British and a Christian, and that you are this way and not that way, then in life you will limit yourself to being British and a Christian, and to being this way and not that way. But if you say, and make it a part of your thinking and existence, that you are a citizen of the world, and don’t limit yourself to any belief, concept or philosophy, and to any culture or race or lifestyle, then you open yourself up to the world, and being open you will receive even that with which you are not familiar, and you will not be offended, since only those who hold on to a certain way of thinking are offended by what they don’t know, and they close themselves to the truth.

Now in the case of Eduard Meier’s spirit, if I am to believe him, it is obvious that it is more evolved than the average human being’s, since it is able to reincarnate anywhere in the world. This would suggest, then, that his spirit is able to make a conscious effort to change its path before it reincarnates in the world. For the average human’s spirit to reach this level we must continue to develop our consciousness to the point where we are without conscious limitations, such as holding on to beliefs and thinking in a certain way. Obviously this is something that takes many years, and lifetimes, to achieve. But just think about it for one moment. On this day we are presented with the opportunity to change our lives, and if we do this consciously and not just materially, as is often the case, we cause our spirits to move forward also. And though we may not be able to change the race, or culture, or even nation of our spirit’s next reincarnation (although it seems to make sense that the last of these can be changed if we establish ourselves in a foreign country long before we die), we will have at least planted the seed in our consciousness for that to eventually occur.

So, as it happens, I agree with Eduard Meier’s answer to Lonnie, although, of course, I would like to read his answer to my question. However, I do have one criticism. He gave no explanation.
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Norm
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Post Number: 588
Registered: 02-2000
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Billy's Spirit form (Nokodemjon) is not even from Earth, he is a special case.
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 34
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Billy's case , Joseph , you can say that that general rule obviously doesn't apply to Billy and his spirit form Nokodemjon , or else he wouldn't have been put back into these incarnations as Prophet in the first place .This has to do in a major way with his incredibly capable will force , and the estimations that he makes about his Mission , that is , where he will go , what he will do when he is there , etc.

This is a s good a place as any to bring up another point ; someone asked me:

"how can Billy be a prophet ? They were all from so long ago , it doesnt make sense that one of them would exist now ".

My answer : The current age needs one now more than ever , the only one who lives in the age of technology , communication , worldwide awareness and educatewd masses .Only now can all the misunderstandings be corrected and understood once and for all . He's the perfect conclusion to the whole Prophet lineage .
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 290
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 03:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Joseph...


I would Fully Agree with Norm and Mark..to the Points. They have explained it very good in details.
The Spirit of Nokodemjon was/is Indeed a Rare and Special Case, to teach the human beings of the Earth The Teachings Of The Spirit, and the Laws Of Nature and Creation..Anew. Which is in This Time of Age...and for our Future..of Great Necessity. If we Wish to "Preserve" our Life and of All creatures on Earth.

But concerning your question:

"If this is so, how is it that your spirit has reincarnated as a Jew in Israel, then an Arab in Arabia (Mecca) and then as a Swiss in Switzerland?"


The High Evolved Spirit of Nokodemjon...Did Not Reincarnate as a Jew..as mentioned in your question. This was mine and others assumption also..at frist, but it was made clear by Christian(Frehner) that Jmmanuel Was from Lake Tiberias, which makes him(Jmmanuel) a "Tiberian"
...and Not a Jew. As Only the "Fabricated" Personage of Jesus Christ...was Related as being a Jew..and thus...Not Jmmanuel.


Edward.
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Joseph_emmanuel
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 04:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark

I am very much aware that the 'general rule' doesn't apply to Eduard's spirit. I did clearly point this out. But I think you've missed the point. Regardless of the 'fact' that Eduard's spirit, Nokodemjon, came from the Arahat Athersata spirit level, in the beginning of its creation it did need to evolve and become knowledgable as our spirits do. I'm simply trying to give the explanation he didn't give to Lonnie's question, which I feel certain applied to the spiritual evolution of Nokodemjon as much as it applies to our own spirits evolution now. Our spirits too will eventually develop their own 'will force', no matter how long it will take. But this can only be done through becoming conscious spiritually and thus learning how to live spiritually. As we are, many of us are too self-conscious to become permanently conscious, making our spirits consciously limited and ourselves too self-consciously aware, which is a constriction because if you see yourself as yourself, you can't see yourself as anyone else, or as anything else. And if you can't do that, neither can you expand consciously.
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edward, Mark and Norm

Are we quibbling, because it certainly reads like it. It doesn't matter that Jmmanuel was Tiberian and not Jewish. He could have been Roman or Greek or Indian. The fact remains that his spirit, Nokodemjon, was at one time reincarnated in a guest-body that was from one part of the world, and at another time in a guest-body that was from another part of the world, and again at another time in a guest-body that was from yet another part of the world. And neither does it matter that Eduard's spirit is highly evolved. Without an understanding as to why his highly evolved spirit is able to do this while the 'average human spirit' isn't, of what good is it to anyone to be told simply that this is how it is for me and that is how it is for you? Know one is here to accept knowledge on faith but on understanding. And it is no good quibbling about the little details. We are here to reason.
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Edward
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Post Number: 291
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Joseph...


Ofcourse we are here to Reason. Very well noticed!

But we are ALSO....Here..To Reason....to get The Facts "Straight"! Which is also a long Life Task for Billy. Thus, Jmmanuel being "Tiberian" Must be Made Known and Acknowledged as Fact...to not Encourage any other Future "Misunderstandings"; Of his, Maria's and Joseph's Roots! Thus, It Is Not In It's Place...to Relate Jmmanuel With The Jewish Religion and it's People(Or...any other).


Edward.
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Howard
Member

Post Number: 22
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the thing about life passing in review with near-death experiences have something about that the spirit thinks through the positive events in life after death between reincarnation?
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Christina
New member

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edward

Isn't Tiberia a town in Israel? In which case, how can anyone be known as Tiberian? Surely that person would be an Israeli, and therefore Jewish? I mean, someone living in Edinburgh, doesn't claim to be Edinburghan. That person claims to be Scottish, because that is the country in which Edinburgh is in. It is in Scotland. A person is known by his nationality, which is the nation in which he lives. Tiberia is not a nation. It is a city. It also says in the Encarta dictionary that it is 'one of the holy cities of Judaism. Tiberias was a centre of Jewish learning from its origin in biblical times up to the Middle Ages. So then Jmmanuel was Jewish, surely, though he may not have associated with Jewish religion. Just want to clarify a few facts here. Did Billy actually say that Jmmanuel was not Jewish? Or was this statement made by a moderator, which I believe Christian Frehner to be.}
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 383
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Christina

Here is the quote from Christian regarding Tiberia-

"According to Billy (and Quetzal during a contact in 1988), Joseph and Maria/Mary were a married couple that did not belong to any denomination/religion. Both came (originated) from Tiberia at the Sea of Galilee. Mary was the daughter of a family of traders/merchants, Joseph the son of a family of shipbuilders and carpenters."

Hope this helps a bit??

Salome
Scott
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Joseph_emmanuel ;

I like what you said about self-consciousness and it's constricting affect on evolution .
Perfectly said .

I may still misunderstand your wording about Nokodemjon's needing to evolve like the rest of us . This is truly a slow way to communicate ideas , by internet .

He did have to evolve the slow way , with some help on the way and developmental advantages , but still having to learn through experiences anyway . It does not mean that in his first incarnation after the Arahat Athersata , that he would acheive the same level immediately , or even close .

Mark Campbell
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Edward
Member

Post Number: 292
Registered: 05-2002
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Christina...


Very True what Scott has posted, as we had Already spoken of the concerning.

Eventhough Jmmanuel was an "Arabian-Tiberian-
Plejaran(Not to foreget-by Gabriel's Seed)", He and his Mother...Maria and Joseph and the Tribe they belonged to.., Were Not Of any Religion(Lived Then...By The Laws Of Nature and Creation) thus, did Not even
Identify/Associated themselves with the Isrealis because..as some of us may Know, it was Still the Land Of "Old Palestian"..and Truely Not Known as Israel; as Jmmanuel made very Clear in The Talmud Of Jmmanuel, that the land was Taken...by Brutal Force, Plunderings, and Murder....etc. Thus, it would be in it's place to say...Israel...even then...was Not Recognized! Maybe...Only By The Israelis.(How else could it be!)

Thus, Jmmanuel was "Arabian-Palestinian-
Tiberian-Plejaran" to put in Clearification. Thus, Jmmanuel Can Decide...for
Himself..What He Is..and wants to be Named..as Human Being.., as We All Can!


One does Not Have to Be a Jew...to be an Israeli...Christina. One can Only call him/herself a Jew....IF...they Practise The Jewish Religion in their daily life. This is the stand point of view of the Rabbis, and ofcourse of the Right-winged Orthdox Israelis. Thus, "Juda-ism" IS A "RELIGION"...and Not a People(s)!

Eventhough..the Encarta...may say....This...or That....; There Are Still Much
Untruths...Within...Much of the Jewish Writings Caused mainly by the Falsifications doen by The So-Called Scribes...that lived then. Thus, then we
Speak here of "Falsifications"...and Not Facts!

Yes, Christian is The Closest to Billy Concerning Translations(and other tasks) and he would Not serve us a joke or a lie. As he is the one that aides with the Questions To Billy...and give us answers when possible.


Edward.
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Joseph ;

I for one , am sorry that you are somewhat unhappy with the tone of the rapport with some of us .
However , I don't detect one bit of antagonism on the part of Norm , Eduard , Atilla , Genghis , or myself .

You asked a question that we think we know something about , so we answered .
If you consider the details to be quibbling , then you have come to a special place .
Especially since you seem content to decide for everyone what is and what is not appropriate .
Is it one way for you and one way for me ?
No , this isn't about you or me .

Did you want to learn about this , or did you want to argue whether or not the information is valid ?
It seems you are defaulting to an old argument , with an attempt to control everyone .

If you are trying to ensure that everyone here act as serenely as the Dalai Lama , try for once not raging a war of repressed anger , yourself .Your implication is rude , while maintaining a peacful facade .


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Christina
New member

Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:15 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edward

Are you certain that's right: 'That one can only call oneself a Jew if one practices the Jewish religion in their daily life.' That would mean that there is no such thing as a Jewish nationality, that a Jew is only a Jew because of one's religion, and that therefore if one ceased practising it, one would cease being a Jew. I find that very interesting, seeing as I've always considered Jewish people in the same way as I consider the French or the Germans. But a French man doesn't stop being a French man if he ceases to practice his religion. He is still a French man. This then must mean that being Jewish is the same as being Muslim: it is not a nationality but an identity of one's religion. How fascinating! I really never knew that.

But what does it all mean, anyway? It is better to be a human being than it is to be a Jew or a Muslim or a French man or a Christian or a Briton, or what have you. That is what we all need to strive for: being human without identifying ourselves as this or that. In all honesty, it doesn't mean anything to me what Jmmanuel was, or what Eduard Meier is. What is important to me is that they speak truthfully, and a part of me believes they do (or did, in the case of Jmmanuel), while the other part of me reserves the right to doubt, to question, to be skeptical, because this is how I learn. It allows me to get to the root of all knowledge.
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Joseph_emmanuel
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Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark

No teacher is born a teacher but must learn to become one, and during the course of his learning he is a pupil, no different to the pupils he teaches as a teacher, who also seek to know and to become teachers. In this same way, no spirit is created perfect but must learn to become perfect, and during the course of its learning it is as other spirits are to whom it shows the way to perfection. It is of this evolutionary course that I speak concerning Nokodemjon and the average human Spirit. Though it is highly evolved now, it was not always highly evolved, and so it experienced the same striving as we do. To understand our evolutionary path, therefore, we must also understand Nokodemjon’s evolutionary path, and not raise it or its present incarnation above ourselves, although we must respect it as teacher, as is expected of pupils.
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Norm
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Post Number: 596
Registered: 02-2000
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Christina That is correct there is no such thing as a Jewish race. The Plejarens have stated this many times.
There are even a few rare books that point this out.

"The Myth of the Jewish Race" by Raphael Patai and Jennifer P. Wing.

"The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler.

This thread covers all this,its well worth the read.
http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/14/2046.html#POST5864
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Howard
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Post Number: 47
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The most interesting contact i feel is contact 6. It explains the human evolvement spiritually, and explains reincarnation. What strikes me is that the similarity between the first period and the first chapters in the Old Testament, its when the humans first are created by creation that they must be "fed" with knowledge, and in the novel of creation they failed to obey the orders of God to not eat of the tree of knowledge. This may seem kind of sought, but it has some truth in it. It may build up on my theory that we are socalled "fallen", that we have already been in heaven, or eden, or whatever you may call it, but that all of our spirits, even the Plejarens, have been fooled by somekind of an higher source. Tempted you might say. And the tree of knowledge leads to the pain of logic. And if there is a way out, it could not have come earlier than stage 2.5, that is the level of creating religions, fear of the evil etc. And the plejarens are not sure if and how creation creates new spirits. It seems like creation is supposed to be a perfect world in society with god, at least in my case, but when human spirits choose to do it themselves, the logic takes over, and unlogical miracles becomes impossible.

Howard
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Kingvegita
Member

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a bit confused on this. It seems that many of you are claiming that Billy was Immanuel, which would be the real name of Jesus, right? Yet the FIGU site says:

"Never has Billy Meier ever claimed to be the direct reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Any claim to the contrary is false and de amatory, and is truly based solely upon the speculation by a few mistaken individuals and misunderstandings which wi l be enumerated and clarified in great detail in this enlightening text."

So, am I misunderstanding what FIGU said, or what you're saying here, or what?
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 420
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Kingvegita,

There are two things which must be stated.

The personality of Billy is not the reincarnation of either Jmmanuel or Jesus, but it is the spirit form (Nokodemjon) which is reincarnated. As you know with each new life a new personality comes into being.

Since Jesus Christ is a fabrication according to the information being presented by Billy and the Plejarens, and does not truly represent the person known as Jmmanuel, how can Billy (or his spirit form) be the reincarnation of someone who is a fabrication?

I hope this clears this up a bit for you.

Salome
Scott
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Markc
Member

Post Number: 93
Registered: 06-2000
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Scott didn't mention that the myth of jesus was based on the real life of Jmmanuel . Jmmanuel , as well as Henok , Elja , Jsaja , Jeremja and Mohammed were all seperate personalities in a reincarnational lineage .

You will find that much of this information forces you to both pay attention and think about it's meaning as well .
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Scott
Moderator

Post Number: 421
Registered: 07-2000
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Markc,

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