| Author | Message | ||
    Mhurley Member Post Number: 80 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hi }Jakobjn, Could you describe the between life state which I think partly what Truthseeker was asking? Thanks Matt | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 81 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hi Jakobjn, Could you describe the between life state which I think partly what Truthseeker was asking? Thanks Matt | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 45 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Jakobjn, I always enjoy your postings. The comprehensive consciousness block becomes 'obsolete' when the transition to the level of Arahat Athersata is made and the CCB unifies with the evolutionary unconscious spirit conscious to form a Conscious spirit conscious with a unique individuality of its own. This can now happen because there is no need for a material consciousness anymore and the remaining pure spiritual evolution continues in pure logic, pure wisdom and pure knowledge. So, is it true that there is no emotion or love in spiritual development; it is just pure logic, wisdom and knowledge? I often wonder where emotion, feeling and love come in spiritual development from the Plejaren perspective, as they say so little about them with regards higher development (or perhaps I am poorly read in the Plejaren literature). It also seems to me that a human/material form with a mind of some kind in space/time is necessary in order to experience and develop in understanding, wisdom and knowledge with respect to love, emotion and feeling. Have the spirits in AA all gone beyond that i.e. are now perfected in love, feeling and emotion? If so how are they perfect in those qualities when there is no absolute perfection in all of Creation? Your comments from the Plejaren perspective would be welcome. Thank you. | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 339 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Matt, The spiritual realm is a state of BEING, in which only love, logic, knowledge, truth and wisdom exists, there is no dreamlike state or heavenlike state, just an existence in BEING, and all impressions are the kind of direct awareness, somewhat similar to intuition, where there is a sudden and direct knowledge. In the spiritual realm, the otherside, there is only balance, harmony, love, wisdom, knowledge and truth in absolute equality between all spiritforms as a unified collective. This means that the spiritforms in the otherside / spiritual realm form a spiritform-collective (german= Wirform) In case of Arahat Athersata and all other and higher pure spiritform-collectives up to the highest level of Petale those spiritform collectives possess a individual conscious spirit consciousness, but their mutual binding in love, truth, knowledge, wisdom and spiritpower is so very advanced that they can exist on their own because of their own, on other words: The spiritforms of the Arahat Athersata collective don't need a planet or system of planets to exist and live as we do, their collective creates their state of BEING. The pure spiritlevels of Arahat Athersata and Petale are in the direct vicinity of the universal Spirals, where the highest levels of pure-spiritenergy concentrate. Those universal spirals are very close to the Creation-core (center of the universe), if you want to visualize this, then a image of a spiral galaxy would be appropriate, only the universal-spirals are of much much larger scale. On such a schematic, Petale would be very close to the core of the spiral, while Arahat Athersata would be more on the outer edge of the spiral. I hope this helps Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Joseph_emmanuel Member Post Number: 54 Registered: 05-2004 |
I think Cpl raises an interesting point. If the spirit forms that have evolved to the Arahat Athersata level have perfected themselves in logic, wisdom and knowledge to the point that they no longer need a physical/semi-physical body, and yet they still need to evolve in order to unite with Creation, in what else do they need to perfect themselves to achieve this? Maybe love is greater than logic, and perfection in logic is what is required to evolve beyond the material, while perfection is love is what is required to unite with Creation. Jacob, what are your thoughts on this? Joseph | ||
Mhurley Member Post Number: 83 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hi Joseph, Your posting touches on something similar I has been thinking about with Billy. Billy is from the realm of AA therefore he's pretty advanced, yet the Plejarens said he would have to go through hardships in his life as a learning process. So like you say : "If the spirit forms that have evolved to the Arahat Athersata level have perfected themselves in logic, wisdom and knowledge to the point that they no longer need a physical/semi-physical body, and yet they still need to evolve in order to unite with Creation, in what else do they need to perfect themselves to achieve this?" Regards Matt | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 340 Registered: 01-2004 |
Dear Cpl, There is nothing BUT Love, logic, knowledge, truth, knowledge and wisdom in spiritual development, emotions don't belong to the spiritual realm since they are purely material and root in the human brain. Emotions and feelings are different from the ground up, emotions are reactions of a primitive part of the brain, while feelings are created by thoughts. Love is the absolute knowledge, sensing and awareness that everything is a part of everything, and nothing, not the smallest grain of sand, a human or a complete galaxy is separated from each other. Creation and the whole of existence in BEING could not exist without logic and love. The pure spiritforms of Arahat Athersata have reached a level of relative perfection and are able to think 100% logical, that means that their intelligence is 100% logical, but they dont know everything yet that is needed in order for them to unify with Creation. Just think of this as a painter who has all the colors to paint, the craftsmanship to do this, he knows how his masterpiece exactly has to be, but not yet completed his work, that just takes time. Arahat Athersata and all other pure spiritform collectives exist in pure logic, the think pure logical, so they wont make any mistakes because out of logic comes logic, and nothing else. I don't know what exactly the Plejaren perspective is on this, and cant speak for them, but this is my perspective based on what I understand of the teachings. Salome (Peace in Wisdom) Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 47 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dear Jakob, Thank you for your reply and honesty. If, as you say, "feelings and emotions are reactions of a primitive part of the brain", how are we to know that thoughts too are not also just created from parts of the brain (as is commonly thought, excuse the pun  )? It seems to me that emotions and feelings are intimately entwined, more so than thoughts. Feelings of affection , sympathy, kindness, etc. are IMO inseparable from their respective emotions. Perhaps they have their basis in thoughts inasmuch as where there is no thought these feelings and emotions cannot arise, but I am yet to be completely convinced of that. They appear to me to be more the dual apsects of the human mind: emotion/feeling and thinking/logic that are forever interplaying and evince one aspect of the human dichotomy so essential for evolution back to Source/Creation. Isn't it initially the feeling of separation from Source/Creation that drives the human back to Creation/Source rather than any thoughts? Arahat Athersata and all other pure spiritform collectives exist in pure logic, the think pure logical, so they wont make any mistakes because out of logic comes logic, and nothing else. Doesn't this mean that they will therefore make less progress? If they do not make mistakes, aren't they cutting themselves short in terms of progress? If feelings and emotions are not necessary for spiritual development why has Creation given us a mind so receptive to and expressive of them? Personally I both think and feel that sympathy, affection and other emotions have helped in my development as a human being, and this in turn has helped develop certain aspects of wisdom. But those feelings came first, the thoughts followed on in logic later. Without feelings and emotions for others people could and have just as easily become murderous dictators as spiritually evolved beings. How can love be expressed without feelings and emotion? To me this is impossible. Love is to feel; love is the ultimate emotion. It follows in logic, IMO, that to progress and evolve in love of Creation (including all things) feeling and emotion are intimately involved. Cut them off and the very link with Creation is cut off, for that link is a feeling of Oneness with all, with Creation. That unity can also be rationalized in logic, but the finite world of logic is intrisically divorced from Creation itself IMO. This is a fascinating topic but time dictates I leave it and go to work. Thanks for your reply Jakob. Please feel free to continue the discussion (anyone). | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 342 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hello everybody, I posted my response in the section: The Spirit, Spirit Forms and the Psyche. Its the appropriate thread for this line of topics. Salome(Peace in Wisdom), Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Joseph_emmanuel Member Post Number: 55 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hello Cpl Jacob stated that emotions are reactions of a primitive part of the brain, not feelings and emotion. Feelings, he said, are created by our thoughts. The difference being, as I understand it, is that emotions are psychological and instinctual reactions to certain situations that we may find ourselves in, such as in times of distress, or when our lives are in danger: fear is an emotion, and grief; while feelings are spiritual (I use this word cautiously) conditions we create through our thoughts, and which help us to relate and connect with each other. Love is a feeling, and compassion. The fundamental difference between them is that emotions are temporal, while feelings are constant, even though we may not have constant feelings of love and compassion. But that is because of our evolution, and because, to quote Jmmanuel in the TJ, chapter 18, verse 54: Humans neither learn consistently, nor in accordance with the greatness of their spirit. The more we train our thoughts and discipline our minds, the more constant will be our feelings of love and compassion. I dont agree that emotions and feelings are intimately entwined, although I have no doubt that the majority of people in the world will agree with you. Ask anyone if they think love is an emotion, and it is likely they will say yes, it is. But it isnt so much that they are intimately entwined as it is that they are intimately confused. Many people these days are of the opinion that the expression of emotion is the only way to move on with ones life and progress spiritually. I find this very frustrating and annoying, especially when trying to reason with them, as often the case is they have created intellectual barriers and made themselves like dogmatists, something that is anathema to them. Yet it is true. People these days have a very high opinion of emotional expression, an attitude encouraged mostly by women and the influence they are having on the world, in particular western society. Perhaps it is needed. I dont think Jacob said that feelings and emotions are not necessary for spiritual development. He said that emotions dont belong to the spiritual realm, a stage in our evolution when we will have no need for the physical body and the material world. In the meantime, however, experiencing emotion is very much a part of our development. I have always said that love is a passive state of mind through which it is expressed passively, meaning without emotion. I dont see how love can be expressed emotionally. This is one of the issues I have had throughout all my life so far. If love is an emotion, then it is something we experience one moment and cease experiencing the next. Love cant be said to be constant were that the case. And if love is not constant, then we must look for another concept that defines our growing feeling of unity, respect, compassion and forgiveness. Joseph | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 49 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hello Jakob and Joseph, Apologies for the late reply. I've had a lot of important work to do just recently -- inlcuding editing down to 20 pages a 40-page paper closely related to what we are discussing. Please understand It is not my intention to be at all critical with this reply, I am merely investigating the subject with the aim at getting to the truth. In addition I support previous postings here to be careful with our terminology so as not to further the confusion and misunderstanding that has reigned on Earth for millenia. One reason I like and respoect this forum and its contributors is precisely because it aims so high in this regard. That said, back to the discussion: "Feelings are directly created by conscious thought in the material consciousness..." A great many are, and certainly most of the "significant" ones for us as adults. However, thought requires a language. A baby or infant has no language at its command until a year or so after birth. Yet these babies and infants will smile, cry, laugh and express quite a few feelings and rudimentory emotions of happiness, joy, hurt etc before they can speak or have the ability to think anything. It follows in all logic then that there are feelings -- and these can also be called subtle emotions -- that neither depend on, nor result from, thoughts. "Feelings are therefore directly regenerated by their related thoughts.." These certainly exist and are often the most "trouble producing" feelings that humans program into themselves, as you say from their own thinking. However, there are so many different types and nuances of feelings. Not every feeling is the product of such self-programming, though again a great many of adult feelings are. And 'emotionalism' IMO always is, though this is not synonymous with 'emotion', more on this below. "The feeling of true love is a result of the knowledge that everything in the universe is connected to each other and that everything is in a unbreakable bond with each other, even when the physical dimensions of the material world seem to separate things. (The Law of Love)" As we do not yet have the scientific 'knowledge' of this, just growing theories and understanding by a growing minority could we also say 'experience'? Some can and have experienced this Unity of All. I think I understand what you're saying, and if my assumption there is correct, I agree. There is no dictionary entry for true love, so many people who do not know you might think you're talking about something romantic, which is the general use of this term. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me as though you are talking about Love of Creation or Creational Love, the Highest Love, or Untimate Nature of Love. In which case I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. There are again an infinite variety of types of love, and true love. love verb 1 Feel love for... (Shorter OED.) love noun 1 The state of feeling with regard to a person which manifests itself in concern for the person's welfare... b ...an act of kindness. 2 In Christain use: the benevolence and affection of God; the affectionate devotion due to God; regard and consideration prompted by a sense of a common relationship to God. 3 strong predilection, lking or fondness for, or devotion to something. 4 That feeling of attachment which is based on sexual qualities... 5 The personification of sexual affection.... 6 A beloved person; c... an object of love.... (Shorter OED.) "The feeling of true universal love..." So we must agree -- with the dictionary -- love is a feeling. And this is one point I wish to make: true universal love or Love of Creation is felt, is it not? It is a feeling. Spirit consciousness exists. How does it know it exists? Consciousness is known because it is felt. Descartes might have argued it is because he could think, but we can still our thoughts and perceive consciousness even more clearly. Consciousness is also perceived, yet when felt it must be a feeling. We feel consciousness rather than think it, though thought is a basic form or data stream not dependent on the human body/brain IMO, thoughthe human brain is necessary for the human to perceive these data streams. feeling 1 Capable of sensation; sentient. 2 Fully realized; vivid, acute, heartfelt 4 Affected by emotin; sensitive, sympathetic, compassionate. (Shorter OED.) Most of the additional comments relate to the senses, after all dictionaries do not suggest a spiritual existence of consciousness or thought either, as they do not yet have the scientific proof that such exists. It seems logical to me, that if refined thought can exist in spirit without a brain, then refined emotions/feelings in the form of Love of Creation, universal compassion and perhaps the feeling of Bliss of Union with all could also exist. The baser human emotions and feelings, of course, would not exist in spirit as you say. Is there a strict definitive dividing line between emotions and feelings? Emotions are more active and feelings more passive generally, though they do go together as a pair. Just look at Figu's own jpeg diagram of the Mind Sprit which clearly shows emotions/feelings together acting as a pair far more so than thought/emotion or thought/feeling: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/13/3785.jpg emotion 1. p,hysical or social agitiation disturbance.... d: ...state of strong feeling (as of fear, anger, disgust, grief, joy, or surprise). 2a:the affectrive aspect of consciousness: FEELING. b: a reaction of or effect upon this aspect of consciousness. [caps in original] 3: the quality that arouses an emotion. 4: an expression of feeling. (Webster's Third Int'l.) emotionalism 1a: undue indulgence in or display of emotions. b: a disposition to indulge in or display emotion unduly. 2a: a tendency to regard things emotionally or to respoind emotionally as opposed to rationally. b: a tendency to overvalue the emotions. (Webster's Third Int'l.) Given these defintions I can understand and agree with just about all you say about emotions, Jakob. I'm not convinced that they all "need to be controlled altogether". The negative ones as you say should be controlled at "a best possible level", however what about the emotions of love, joy, happiness etc.? If these were totally controlled we'd end up like robots and cease marrying and having children. The human race would actually die out. It is alleged that the Greys made the mistake of controling to the point of eliminating all emotions, and eventually programmed them out of their systems. This was such a disaster that ever since have been trying to regain them in vain, and this may be part of the biological experimentation going on. Of course, we have no definitive proof of this but it bears serious consideration IMO. "Jacob stated that emotions are reactions of a primitive part of the brain, not feelings and emotion."@OK. I appreciate the distinction. Thanks, for the reminder. I believe I talked about motions and feeling elsewhere. Since Figu's own graphic shows emotions and feelings together they certainly undeniably have a close relation/connection. Emotions are expressions of feelings and are strong feelings. Feelings however do not have to be emotional, but, of course, they can be with the human. "The difference being, as I understand it, is that emotions are psychological and instinctual reactions to certain situations that we may find ourselves in, such as in times of distress, or when our lives are in danger: fear is an emotion, and grief; while feelings are spiritual (I use this word cautiously) conditions we create through our thoughts, and which help us to relate and connect with each other. Love is a feeling, and compassion." Dictionary definitions certainly emphasise the stronger and more negative emotions to illustrate the meaning of 'emotion'. But 'compassion' is also an emotion as well as a feeling. compassion 1 Particiaption in another's sufferring; fellow-feeling, sympathy. 2 Pity inclining one to show mercy or give aid. 3 Sorrowful emotion, grief. (Shorter OED.) compassionate 1 Feeling or showing compassion or sympathy for others. 2 Displaying sorrowful emotion. 3 Exciting compassion, pitiable. (Shorter OED.) Emotions and feelings have been, and are indeed are, intimately confused. I agree Joseph. Hence, feelings are not only spiritual. There are all kinds of feelings, just as there are all kinds of emotions, and thoughts. Their use as blanket terms is thus frought with danger IMHO. Love is also an emotion. This is undeniable. Love of Creation; that/this is a very different kind of love. I would call it the highest refined feeling and possibly even the highest most refined emotion, perhaps where our highest emotions/feelings of compassion eventually evolve to. Different people perceive things differently and heave different makeups. Some are naturally more logical/rational others more emotional/feelingful. Either can become extreme and then a danger. The world has witnessd both extremes throughout history. George Bush is presently attempting to rationalize and make war logical, like all misguided, and illogical warmongers before him. Logic misused can be just as great a danger as misguided emotion. Certainly most religions and New Agers have become subject to emotionalism -- overt, undue emotion -- that detracts from one's development; but those without any feeling/emotion are just as big a danger to humanity. To exercise pure logic as it underlies, and is expressd, in all Creation is as difficult as exercising our highest feelings and emotions as human beings by evincing the Love of Creation. To me they both require our utmost attention and awareness. IMO we ignore either at our peril. "I have always said that love is a passive state of mind through which it is expressed passively, meaning without emotion. I don't see how love can be expressed emotionally." All experience coming to us is by definition, passive. How can love be expressed unemotionally? So love is inexpressable? I'm not disagreeing with you. You are, correct me if I'm wrong, just expressing how you feel about love, which says something about yourself. Everyone is different in their makeup. Some might think you cold, others would realize your accuracy in objectivity. Have you ever been in love? (No need to answer.) If you have did you ever want to express your love or show the other that you loved them? People often attempt to espress their love because they want to share their love. All expression, be it love, art, speaking, writing, etc is an attempt to espress the essentially inexpressible. That doesn't stop us though, does it? And we gain valuable experiences and lessons from the attempts. Love, when it cause one to move and act becomes e-motion. It depends what love you are talking about. "This is one of the issues I have had throughout all my life so far. If love is an emotion, then it is something we experience one moment and cease experiencing the next. Love can't be said to be constant were that the case. And if love is not constant, then we must look for another concept that defines our growing feeling of unity, respect, compassion and forgiveness." Again it really depends what love you are talking about. The human mind cannot hold feelings, thoughts, concepts -- anything -- indefinitely or forever. That is part of the human condition. Things impinge upon us demanding our undivided attention again and again. Whilst deeply involved with a problem at work I cannot be holding the love I feeel for my wife in my mind. It is put on the back burner in the subconscious. There it is permanent or constant, but it will become buried and not show up at all unless I go do something to experience it again. It could be somethngnew, like meet her in the evening and we have a new experience andfall in love all over again, or it might be going hme and remebering how much she showed her love for me by making me a wondeful lunch to take to work, or anything else thta rekindles the experience. Everything is in evolution, even love -- even Creation. So certainly any emotion of love is experienced one moment and gone the next, but they just keep coming, don't they? When you talk of the love which is the "growing feeling of unity, respect, compassion and forgiveness" it is for you to identify, and name, if you wish. Without a name or word it is impossible to talk about. It is your concept. I'm not to sure what you are conceiving when you say those words, perhaps Love of Humanity, Love of All, Love of Creation. I would not generally suggest that Love of Creation is an emotion, because we generally understand emotions to be active and too human oriented. | ||
Cpl Member Post Number: 50 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Joseph, I agree with all you say about the New Age emotionalism, and emotionalism everywhere. Emotion is not synonymous with emotionalism, however. I've just sent a post in answer under the Spiritual Teachings: Spirit, Spirit Forms, Psyche heading, where Jakob suggested it should be. I unintentionally clicked the Post instead of the Preview/Post button, before it was adequately checked. Sorry in advance for any errors. I'm really busy this coming week, but hope to contact you there if you have any comments. | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 343 Registered: 01-2004 |
My reaction to your post can be found in the appropiate section. Salome(Peace in Wisdom), Jakobjn Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 465 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Niels... Seeing that we are now not on the topic of Overcrowding/Overpopulation... I will go further on this string. Yes, Memo is correct. Animals can Not reincarnate as Humans, and Humans Not as Animals. Humans have a Evolution Consciousness and act according to his/her "Intuition"; as in Animals, do Not have a Evolving Consciousness like that of a Human, but acts according to their "Instinct" Processing. What Scott posted is a known posting which I was aware of, but good for him to have posted it, so that you can have more Insight to it in much more Details. I was merely trying to explain it to you in a more short and Simple manner, but could come up with the word - Compatible - at the time. I was in a bit of a hurry also, which resulted in to a not to clear description. That would be more than Very Logical, being mentioned, that the Spirit-form would migrate and find a Suitable body to reincarnate into. It be, to a space craft or by any other means of migrating to another planet or system, which has the same Evolution Level/Stage "Compatibility" as the migrating Spirit-form. Which is compatible to Further evolve in. The most simplest comparison would be: of a person from Papoea New Guinea, a Jungle man, or an African Bushman, or others, that still live in harmony with Nature and it's wild life, but still living in an evolution state that may be "Primitive" for us westerners; and when letting them be confronted with our western daily life of being. They would surely have a more difficulty Adapting into our "MODERN" ways of being/living, and can be Confused, because, the surroundings can not be Comprehend by their Consciousness Evolution Level/State of being. Thus, they are Not "Compatible", to a point, to Evolve at the same Pace as we Modern people today. The Same, would be Visa-Versa. The some what Higher "MODERN" Consciousness Evolved person would have Confrontation problems also, if he were to live a Primitive life style, because, The Time is turned Back, so to speak...and all Modern Attributes that go with it, for him. Thus, feels, that he is "Stagnating" to a point, in his Evolution Progression and Processing. Thus, also meaning, that both are of the "Average" human being...I would like to add. They both would be better off, at their own Compatible Consciousness Evolution Level/State of Progression, and Processing of Being. Thus, it is best to reincarnate in the Same Evolution Environment. That is why, even...Families Evolve in(to) The Same group of Spirit-forms. So that they can Evolve Gradually...."Collectively/Together"; at the same Pace of Development and Progression. Which I find very very Fair of Creation to offer us this and to make good use of this Processing. Only Highly Spiritual Consciousness Prophetical Spirit-forms(Billy and Small Prophets) can move about to any Lower Evolved group(s) of Spirit-forms, and than to incarnate within their Collective; because of the Tasks they will Fulfill to "Assist" lower Spirit-forms in their Knowledge, Wisdom and Evolution....etc....ect. So, as you can notice and as we can conclude: It does not have anything to do with "the survival of the fittest". When it comes down to the point, it is just ALL ABOUT...the UR Evolution Process(ing) of MAN, which is the main goal for Human Beings. To make "Mistakes" and to Learn and to Dis-Learn, and Evolve him/her self to PERFECTION, as intended by Creation. It could not be any Simpler...I would say. Edward. | ||
Nils Member Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2004 |
Hi Edward: Thanks for the post. This week and probable half of the next week, I'll be busy. Such is life. I'm sure that you are able to extract my view/answer by carefully studying my latest posts. I won't forget the issue. I'll be back. Cheers, Niels | ||
Joseph_emmanuel Member Post Number: 57 Registered: 05-2004 |
Does anyone know why we see relatives that have died, angels, grotesque hellish forms, a tunnel, the Angel of Death (sic. Edgar Cayce), Jesus, God, the Hall of Records, light, darkness and various afterlife realms when we have a Near Death Experience? I have a feeling this is almost like asking why do we see and experience so much when we dream. But are NDEs purely consciousness-related experiences? And if so, then why do experiencers see their own body, and the current situation that brought about their NDE, and then go off toward another realm? This must give the whole experience a sense of reality that isnt necessarily confined to ones consciousness. So what is happening when one undergoes a Near Death Experience? Does one initially have an Out of Body Experience, which would explain why one sees ones own body and current events (and which, as I understand, is the consciousness being projected outward), and then enter the world of dreams deep within the subconscious? Or is there some reality to it, in the sense that it isnt confined to ones consciousness? | ||
Edward Member Post Number: 470 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Joseph.... I thought I would let you read the answers to your questions from Billy's own knowledgable written explanations. This is what is mentioned in "49 Questions-With Answers Regarding Life And The Human Condition" From the Billy Meier Contacts. Concerning "Astral Body Projection", known also as "Out Of Body Experience" to many. Question 35. Is there such a thing as an astral body projection? Spirit Lesson. Lesson#26, The Astral Body. Regarding the so-called astral body, a number of false teachings exist that confuse human beings. Once again, parapsychology must be blamed here as well, for it propagates these false teachings through a complete lack of knowledge of the real truth. According to these false, parapsycho- logical teachings it is theorized that an astral body can wander outside the physical body. The truth, however, is that such an action is an absurd impossibility for this simple reason: If the astral body were to leave the physical body, the latter would die beyond revival within moments. The truth is the so-called astral body is nothing more that the pure spirit life form within a human being. Hence, it is the instrument of the incarnate ego on and from the astral level. Therefore, the astral body truthfully embodies nothing other than a fragment of Creation, namely, the spirit, which exists within the human being for the purpose of giving them life. Concerning "Near Death Experience" and seeing passed-away relatives, angels...etc...etc. From - An Interview With A UFO Contactee - : Question 10 There are people whom claim they have died and saw the Beyond. Is it true that this really happens? Not in this sense. The people you speak of were not really dead. They may have been clinically dead, which means they no longer had discernible heart or brain activity. But, as I said, this is only clinical death, at which time the spirit form has not yet left the body, but still remains in it for awhile. This means the comprehensive consciousness also stays in the physical body, although all vital signs may appear to be shut down. The comprehensive consciousness and the spirit form continue to remain with the body for a certain period which may last for seconds, minutes or hours; indeed, under certain circumstances even years or decades. The latter, for instance, is the case for the survival of bodies that have been frozen instantly through cryology, during which time the consciousness continues to function. Such a condition, however, only occurs while the body is in its death throes; and for this reason the brain's activity is no longer detectable, even though it continues to function. At this time images appear that are consistent with the individual's normal thinking and imagination patterns, but the images are as well imprinted by the comprehensive collective of the terrestrial human entities. While in this condition of profound death-agony, these people are often capable also of emitting their consciousness whereby they can suddenly view themselves from the outside, while hovering above their own bodies and so forth. Light, darkness, and beloved people also frequently play a major role in this scenario, and the person in this stage of a death throe feels him- or herself being led through dark channels and such into a light, from where they do not ever want to leave again. Edward. | ||
Starlord New member Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2005 |
Is it not true that we were born with a body that corresponds to each plane? the Physical, Astral, Causla, Etheric, Mental and finally Soul Plane? (Of course this is not the end as there is always a plus element to spirituality) | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 352 Registered: 01-2004 |
No, that is not true, the human consists of a material body and a spirit body. The psyche is what you call the soul (old meaning for the word Psyche) and that is a material component of the humanbody. The Psyche (soul) is the sender/receiver of the material part of the human, and mostly with his material consciousness (his brain) and the solar plexus, so he can detect the finer and finest impulses from the spirit and many many things more. That statement you made stems from unparallelled false teachings that holds no bearing with reality. I have included a rough schematic:  Salome (Peace in Wisdom), Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Starlord New member Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2005 |
Interesting. So the idea is that when a person travels to the higher planes via the use of his spiritual body during contemplation or the dream state, and knows for a fact that the experience is real and it's not a dream or halucination, that the physical body dies instantly? Respectfully, I would have to disagree with that theory. So would a few million Indian practicioners of the few sound and light based spiritual paths. The ability to experience the higher planes of consciousness before the death of the body has been taught for many thousands of years. | ||
Phaethonsfire Moderator Post Number: 353 Registered: 01-2004 |
It is no theory, its the truth, there are about 14 people on this world capable of sending out their material and spiritual consciousness into the realms of the past, present and future. Those 'few' million indian practicioners underlie a most definite false teaching and severe euphoric hallucinations and dreams. The Spirit body itself NEVER leaves the humanbody in case of material consciousness or spiritual consciousness travel, because if it would do so, the human body would die instantly. This because the spirit is the motor, the power source of the body and without the power source the body would die. Thats how it is. Salome (Peace in Wisdom), Jacob Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona! | ||
Michael Member Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2000 |
Starlord, There are "spiritual" groups such as Eckankar, MSIA and others that have concocted teachings that are an unproven blend of various ideas, theories, stories, etc., complete with immortal masters and all the rest that emphasize ideas such as "getting off the planet" and "traveling the soul realm", etc. that have no basis in fact. It's very easy to assert that subjective "experiences" on the "higher planes" mean something that coincides with some cosmology or another. As someone who had personal experience with such a group, and who applied logic and thinking in order to sift the fact from the fantasy, I have to say that there's an awful lot of escapist, fantasy-filled seeking for euphoric experiences and an emphasis on the specialness of the people who subscribe to such teachings that bears very close examination. I also think that the Indian seekers might benefit from a touch of grounding in reality as much (well, almost as much) as we westerners would benefit from true spiritual practices. Michael Horn | ||
Starlord New member Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2005 |
Michael, So, are you saying you had no luck with those paths? If I may ask, how long did you study with them? So for those of us that experience out of body and are cognizant of the fact, actually seeing your body there asleep, where exactly is this taking place, in the mind? How do you mean 'specialness'? |
