| Author |
Message |
   
Sirashwin
Member
Post Number: 56
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 08:51 am: | 
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Dear Cpl
Thanks a lot for your valuable insight. I hope you don't mind if i carry this discussion further through e-mails with you, or would you?
Thanking You
ashwin |
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 296
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 06:22 pm: |
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I don't mind at all, ashwin. Just mail me at gbcyd@yahoo.com and I'll reply when I can.
cpl |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 863
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 01:57 am: |
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Hi Siraswhin and Cpl....
Cpl, concerning your comment:
It is a hypothetical assumption to project a concept of "the very first
Creation". Such just cannot be said to exist, because it is an absolute
unknown.
If my memory serves me well: There IS indeed, such thing as - the very first
Creation. And this is mentioned: Billy describing HOW (the first) Creation
came about.
The very first Creation was generated through an (Inspirational)- Idea -, of
what we know in our material terms...as/from "Nothing", which IS indeed
"Something"...but not comprehensible to us human beings.
This very first Creation was also once just like our own Spirit-Consiousness:
the size of a pea!
And gradually, through Existence...this Spirit-Consiousness Evolved itself to
a much Higher State Of Evolution(and Consciousness). Like-wise, as we humans
also do...through the accumulation of Knowledge and the likes, and Processing
and Progressing itself to Perfect; constantly Developing itself.
As the saying goes: "we will have to start from Scratch."
And this would indeed apply to the generating of the very first Creation.
Thus, somewhere along it's 'Scratch' existence, so to speak...it became
'Conscious' within it's Consciousness Of Existence, to generate it's
Creational Spirit-form...and with it's counterpart 'Consciousness'(to form a
Duality: Unity)...then to form it's first Creation(al) BEING as an (Unique)
Entity(of it's kind): known to us as CREATION.
And, gradually this first Creation...Expanded itself with the help/digesting
of all the accumulated Knowledge and Wisdom....etc, gathered from/through the
Material Worlds, within it's existence; still constantly Perfecting itself.
And so, this processing...has taken an endless numbers of Reincarnations
manifestations, if you will: Constantly Creating new Creations....etc....
etc.....etc.........
Edward. |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 869
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:05 am: |
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Hi All....
Just a small correction on my previous posting:
This very first Creation was also once just like our own Spirit-Consiousness:
the size of a pea!
We had better keep the size of the Spirit-Consciousness: the size of no larger
than a "Needle-point!" As it is mentioned in the Official translations.
Edward. |
Cpl
Member
Post Number: 301
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:57 pm: |
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Hi Edward,
Thanks for your comments. I thought I read that the first Creation was only the first that could be known. We know something, erroneously referred to as "nothing" on these pages, existed before then for that first Needle-point sized Creation to come into being. And before that what was there?
I thought I read that there were likely unknown Creations before this but no one knows (we can only "know" as far as the "first Creation" which is why it is referred to as such), but I could be mistaken. It is not unreasonable to suppose such existed, though IMO -- if not what?
If one starts talking about a something nothing, that's just illogical.
Thanks, again
cpl |
Sirashwin
Member
Post Number: 66
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:04 pm: |
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Greetings to all
Though Cpl and i earlier continued our discussion through e-mail, we later decided to post excerpts of it here, so as to receive useful commentary (note opinions expressed here are not quoted, atleast directly, from the FIGU material)
Sep 4
Sirashwin --> Cpl
Now evolution be it spiritual, physical or natural, is always from a lower state to a higher state. So since now Creation is evolving spiritually what was it before?
Let me give you my layman's way of explaining about Creation -
Creation is analogous to a person playing chess, but with himself/herself
the board with black and white checks represent everything here in the physical realm; all the stars, planets, fauna and flora.
we humans are like the six chess pieces - pawn,horse,bishop,rook,king & queen - similar to the seven stages of human development.
also as a pawn can reclaim another lost piece similarly a spiritform never dies and keeps re-incarnating.
So ultimately Creation learns from all this experiences (well this is atleast how the first cycle goes like)
What do you have to say?
Cpl --> Sirashwin
Creation is Billy's term so you really need to read what he says to answer what is Creation. He says before Creation was doing what it is now it was in a great sleep, but before then evolving too. After each grand cycle it seems to step up and continue evolving on yet higher levels. So there were many lower levels of evolution before this one (that lasts billions if not trillions of years at least) each lasting immeasurably long time periods as we measure time; and there will be endless more cycles in the future. Creation is always evolving spiritually higher, but it evolves through creating physical realities and giving them the freedom to evolve too.
Chess is a very interesting analogy. Many have used this with the chess board as our arena in life and the pieces the different paths we embark on. It is an excellent metaphor for life, or a lifetime. To use this analogy for Creation though you would need to let Creation sit back and watch the game: A piece of Creation is involved with each piece in as much as a piece of It resides at the center of each chess piece, but pieces each move of their own accord and will, not according to the will of Creation. The game will reach an end or result though, leading to development of wisdom and other qualities for all involved, including Creation, which learns fully from every move.
To make the most striking and accurate metaphors that people can benefit from it is best to come first to fully understand the subject, otherwise one's metaphor appears limp or only working up to a point. Sometimes dreams can give excellent metaphors that are actually missed by the dreamer.
Sep 5
Sirashwin --> Cpl
Then is it right if i were to say that all that we see around us including this conversation between you and me, is nothing more than a grand dream of Creation ?
Cpl --> Sirashwin
You can call it what you like, but does that change how it is or how you experience it? It is what it is and no words will ever capture it or answer the needs of your experiences from day to day. We are not a dream of Creation, but a creation of Creation that co-creates with Creation.
The personalities of you and I are as fleeting as a dream in the grand scheme of things -- in a hundred years they are gone and nothing more than history -- but it is not the personalities that are of fundamental importance but how one lives one's life incorporating Creation/Source as the most essential part of life's experience. Living with Creation/Source whenever one can enriches the soul/spirit; and this soul/spirit is the real you and I; the destiny our personalities endeavor, with urgings from spirit, to bring us to.
We are engaged in the long-term development of spirit personality which for all humans is fairly rudimentary. This development occurs through the personality listening to and responding to the urgings, prompts, ideas, inspirations, energies and frequencies of Creation/Source as they come to one, and expressing these throughout one's life. The personality is an essential step in recognizing and calling on these and then incorporating them as part of oneself. This assists development of spirit personality over the eons to the stage where physical incarnation is no longer necessary, for the job has then been done.
Sirashwin --> Cpl
You are right, it is like running in circles or trying to write on water when comes to attempting to even describe Creation in words of our silly language.
Would you mind if i were to post all our conversations in the forum, because Edward ( well i guess you would know him ) tells that there is something like a first Creation?
Cpl --> Sirashwin
If I remember correctly, the first Creation is just the first in a line of Creations that is known of in the Meier material. There was obviously something before that but it is unknown. It would not seem unreasonable to suppose there were other previous Creations too, though this would not be known in fact. Knowledge can only go so far. You could also just ask Edward what was before the First Creation. It is often difficult to know who knows more about what in the Meier material. Everyone has a fallible human memory, too -- myself included.
You can post those if you wish as long as you point out with each one that they are my thoughts on the matter and I'm not actually quoting from Billy or the Plejaren. Figu like -- often request -- the distinction to be made.
-------------------------------------------------
Salome
ashwin |
Markc
Member
Post Number: 543
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 05:03 pm: |
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I want to thank you both for sharing the exchange . A good example of how the material that we read flourishes among us , which is a parallel to the ideas within the conversation .
I recommend reading it to everyone , if they passed on it.
Mark
Mark Campbell
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Sirashwin
Member
Post Number: 103
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
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Greetings to all
I was just wondering if Creation had a sort of "defence" mechanism in its material belt, to prevent complete annihilation by some major universal high-tech war. Or are there Creations whose material belt have been completely wrecked without life. But something suggests to me that it shouldn't matter at all for nothing remains eternal, be it destruction or paradise, before the law of transience.
Salome
ashwin |
Edward
Member
Post Number: 895
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 03:50 am: |
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Hi Sirashwin.....
I do not think that Creation may have per se a - Conscious - Defense
Mechanism, (directly) in the way you describe.
We must keep in mind that Creation is even/also subjected to Creational Laws
itself! Thus, within Creation would manifest the Law of Consequences: Cause
and Effect. And as we learned from Billy: that (all) Causalities Generates
Effects.[Action...Reaction] This too, is - Duality -...to confront each
other...and end with a Result/Out-come(even an Equilibrium).
Thus, IF such would occur, as you suggested: the above mentioned would take
its Course of/into realization, I would say.
So, what Man is doing on Mother Earth today, would be a good comparison, if
you will. Mother Earth, is just 'Naturally' Recuperating herself from what Man
has done to her; and she will Rumble and Mumble and Shake herself, until she
regains back to (her true) Equilibrium!
And so, the above mentioned has nothing to do with: Revenge, or the likes,
but..is only a Manifestation of: Consequences - Cause and Effect!
CREATION does NOT Punish!
Everything within Creation is an Effect....from a Cause....
Edward. |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 377
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:38 pm: |
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The "defense mechanism" of Creation is its basis on laws of pure logic which cannot be broken. Nothing more is required since no illogic can disturb the fundamental workings of Creation, even if material affects can damage parts of the material "world". |
Sirashwin
Member
Post Number: 110
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:05 pm: |
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Now would it be right to say that the decision of Nokodemion's spiritform to return into the material incarnation cycles, to bring back the spiritual teachings; can be called as somewhat like a "defence" mechanism of Creation, even though Nokodemion's spiritform undertook this mission on itself ?
Salome
ashwin |
Adityasonakia
Member
Post Number: 53
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 12:58 pm: |
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Dear Ashwin,
Very well said Ashwin.
Yes, in a way it can be called a Defence Mechanism, but TO SAVE US.
Salome
Aditya |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 384
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
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I completely, but respectfully disagree. Mr Meier has said that his spirit form returned from the Arahat Athersata level on a completely voluntary basis and Mr Meier has also said that Creation does not ever interfere in the free will of ANYONE, EVER. Just my 2 cents though as usual :-) |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 498
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 01:49 pm: |
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Thomas is completely correct; the Creation does NEVER interfere with any of its creations, and will never do that for all future.
The Creation would not even interfere even in the case if a humanity would destroy itself, because evolution must be observed even when it leads to self-destruction, this is a law of evolution.
The laws of the Creation are omnipotent, so if a humanity cant follow them or does not want to follow them, then this will lead to an inevitable self-destruction.
This is very similar to an animal species which are unable to adapt to a changing environment, they will go extinct.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
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Sirashwin
Member
Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 09:09 pm: |
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Dear Thomas & Jacob (nice to see you back)
I am not referring to the self-destruction of humans, but that of the material belt of creation. Since Creation in it's first stage of development, it is dependant on the material life forms and thus created the material belt and it's life forms.
So for instance let us say that in some Creation due to complete insane inter-galactic war, the material belt is completely destroyed (and perhaps the remaining survivors are forced to go to another Cretion); completely destroyed in the sense everything, even the other dimensions which are just a fraction of time ahead. Then how does that Creation proceed forward with it's evolution? Does it start all over again? Or have i got it all wrong? (which is most likely  )
Thanking You
ashwin
PS - maybe the example of Nokodemion was far-fetched but i was wondering otherwise |
Lonnie
Member
Post Number: 130
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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I addition to what Jacob and Thomas have correctly stated here, it is true that Creation does not and will not ever interfere with the individual decisions of human beings and their own Creational energy, including higher evolved spirit entities. However, in view of this and the fact that Billy's spirit did volunteer for this mission 13.9 billion years ago along with 21 helpers who also left Arahat Athersata, unless this completely free will decision took place by these individuals to carry out this long and painful task of bringing mankind back to reason, all of Creation would have been completely destroyed.
Of course, they can all go back anytime they want to and attain a higher level of evolution within Arahat Athersata, but they will not until the mission is completed and order is brought back to the universe.
We are all involved in this difficult task. But thanks to Creation which gives us energy and allows us our free will to use all of our energies and assets to have a share in preserving life and continued evolution for ourselves now and in the future.
Salome,
Lonnie Morton |
Jacob
Moderator
Post Number: 500
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 09:30 am: |
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Lonnie,
Where did you read that 21 other spiritforms left the level of Arahat Athersata ? It is not true whatsoever.
Only the spiritform of Nokodemion has returned from that level, that was an unique event and will never happen again in this Universe.
It was his free decision to come back set up the mission to get everything normal again.
Salome,
Jacob
Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
|
The_original_dave
Member
Post Number: 87
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 09:13 am: |
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lonnie you mention that 21 other spirit forms volunteered as helpers in the mission. do you happen to know where those spirit forms are now, who are they in. are they perhaps some of the core members.
if anybody knows, feel free to answer. |
Markc
Member
Post Number: 556
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 12:01 pm: |
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Hi Lonnie ;
I also question your comment about "21 helpers" , and also that Billy could go back to the AA anytime . Please give a reference .
Thanks , Mark
Mark Campbell
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Thomas
Member
Post Number: 387
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 02:26 pm: |
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There were no other 21 "helpers" who descended from AA level according to BEAM. It was a one time only situation which only the spirit form lineage of BEAM undertook. If you read otherwise then it is either incorrect or you misinterpreted. No disrespect intended. |
Socrates
Member
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 04:31 pm: |
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"I completely, but respectfully disagree. Mr Meier has said that his spirit form returned from the Arahat Athersata level on a completely voluntary basis and Mr Meier has also said that Creation does not ever interfere in the free will of ANYONE, EVER. Just my 2 cents though as usual :-)"
This is an interesting conversation. Creation will always fulfill itself and evolve for it sees the entirety of it's idea manifesting through all stages.
I believe that Creation knows the results of it's actions before those actions have taken place because it fully understands that every action has a reaction and thus knows the results of every Universe and Ur( I believe it called?) it creates.
So therefore there is no free will, but instead a sense of free will because we are all apart of creation (In my opinion).
It's just an idea  lol |
The_original_dave
Member
Post Number: 88
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 04:56 pm: |
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I also remember reading that he would not be able to return to the AA level whenever he wanted to. In reallity he will have to work his way back up the ladder to reach that level once again. |
Lonnie
Member
Post Number: 252
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 06:51 pm: |
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I know that some of this information my seem new to some, but I am pretty sure that what I stated is correct. I will try to find the exact reference and then state it here. I know it is in one or more of the 500 books and booklets that is published by the FIGU. |
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