| Author |
Message |
   
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:15 am: | 
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Scott,
your comment means Creation only in coars_material field can be conscious (or self_consious)?!! I dont think so
Best Regards
Salome
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Rarena
Member
Post Number: 310
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 03:22 pm: |
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Dear Mehraein,
Don't think we've ever conversed before, Hello! It is my understanding you're of middle eastern ancestry, nice to make communication with you and admire your language abilities.
Creation is EVERYWHERE both coarse and fine matter realms and realms we cannot conceive of!
We are not CREATION! We carry only a small part of it within us.
As per contact ten with Semjase and her rendition of the spiritual teachings... our spirit never dies.
The human consciousness occurs only in the human being that is alive. It carries on after death but we are not conscious of it because the hardware for us to perceive it, (I.E. the Brain) the conscious part of the human being… is not working anymore.
Am in total agreement with Scott. When you die, the multitudes of lifetime experiences augment the CCB (Collective Consciousness Block) with the recently gleaned experiences from the last lifetime.
This software is merged with the software of the previously gleaned and collected
It is my understanding the "human" consciousness ceases to exist at death. Apparently Creation does not "live" as does... what we call human existence.
In fact... according to 49 Questions (don't have the exact page number here)it states: there is no human counterpart to Creation. We are a very small and only very slightly evolved part of Creation.
The CCB or Collective {meaning total or combined} Consciousness Block receives the recently lived life and it's experiential learning ceases after the death of the human being. It may not evolve after that, am not sure on this part... any more, though, until a new life with a new personality is again instigated and lived.
The CCB it is my understanding contains many many lifetimes of data and is vastly different than the consciousness and "soul" of the human individual.
It is my understanding the CCB is a barrier AND an area.
The recreated reincarnated personality is not the same as the life before, nor the CCB therefore the consciousness is not the same...
Billy's book "The Psyche" is also a good book available from FIGU in this regard.
Leben and Tod, (Life and Death) am told has much to say about these questions you ask. It is in German although there may be some unauthorized English versions circulating around. |
Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 1408
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:41 pm: |
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Hello,
Here is an excerpt of what occurs after death of the personality. By the way, there is no soul, which is an outdated term for the Psyche. This term was created from the term "solar plexus"....
During a human life, all thoughts, feelings, actions and movements, etc are stored in the Comprehensive Consciousness Block, in the planetary and universal storage banks.
When the human dies, his Personality (Personality and Consciousness are the same and integrated in the Comprehensive Consciousness Block) will transfer over to a Spirit-realm parallel to the Spirit-realm of the Spiritform itself.
In this Spiritual realm of the Comprehensive Consciousness Block are all unprocessed factors of the old Personality resolved and transformed into neutral-logical impulses which are transferred and integrated into the Spiritform in it's own Spiritual Realm, at the same time, these neutral-logical impulses are stored in both the planetary and universal storage-banks.
When this process is concluded, the Personality is dissolved into pure Spiritenergy, and transformed by the Comprehensive Consciousness Block in to a totally new basic Personality / Consciousness which has no connection to the old one.
The basic personality is based on what the Spiritform needs to learn, which means that certain experiences are required to gain a certain knowledge.
The gender of the new body is not selected in a conscious manner or by decision in the previous life, it is a natural process invoked by the whole of Spiritual evolution, and what kind of knowledge needs to be gained and which gender is most fit, male (positive) or female (negative)
Regards
Scott |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:03 pm: |
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Rarena,
Thank you for your comment. yes we didn't have any yet , but I often follow your comments with respect.
1- I know and understand that ..(Creation is EVERYWHERE both coarse and fine matter realms and realms we cannot conceive of! ) ...that it means Spirit Realms and beyond of that....
2- I don't agree with.. ( We are not CREATION! We carry only a small part of it within us. ) ...we are not separated species of Creation. you can see in several The Spiritual Teachings and also the gaiaguys writing material (The creation Itself is Your Spirit).
3- I know and understand that our spirit never dies.
4- I don't understand well or I can not be agreed that... ( The human consciousness occurs only in the human being that is alive. It carries on after death but we are not conscious of it because the hardware for us to perceive it, (I.E. the Brain) the conscious part of the human being� is not working anymore.)...
Dear Billy has a very interesting teaching about this subject in FIGU Boultan No.38. that explains about shouting out the coarse-matter senses in death proses so the fine_matter senses or concussions act more sharpen. It means the spirit consciouslyknows where it is? and also can receive or transmit.
5- unfortunately I haven't studied enough about CCB recently, I mean where it is (it location) and what its relation with spirit (before and spicily after death)?
6-yours:...( It is my understanding the "human" consciousness ceases to exist at death. Apparently Creation does not "live" as does... what we call human existence. )..human is not the spirit? I mean it is not two separate things. yes human coarse_matter consciousness ceases but his consciousness in fine_matter will get started immediately I think.
7- yours: ...(.there is no human counterpart to Creation. We are a very small and only very slightly evolved part of Creation. ).....I know and I accept ..yes we are (each one ) a small part of Creation but not separate form ..let me say like a universal puzzle that we are only one pieces of it ...but one day this puzzle would be complete more and we can get a more real sight from the huge scene.
8-yours: ...(...It's experiential learning ceases after the death of the human being...)....It means as though you are also confirming the evolution of the spirit (Human) take place only in coarse_matter realm.
9-yours : ..(..The CCB it is my understanding contains many many lifetimes of data and is vastly different than the consciousness and "soul" of the human individual. .) yes maybe It is the same as Overself or Innerself in another people language.
10-yours: (... It is my understanding the CCB is a barrier AND an area..)..why it must be barrier ?..and barrier of what?
I asked very simple questions that wanted also simple and real answers exactly the same as life itself.
apart from very respectable scholar people of the Forum? I think we must have simple, real, persuading and encouraging answers for very ordinary people from our New Prophet.
Rarena,
Thanks by the way for your kindly attention. and sorry if my English is not proper yet.
Best Regards
Salome
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Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 04:30 am: |
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Hello all,
Hi think that the word "consciousness" is being used too indiscriminately here and producing mis-representations.
To me, "consciousness" is the same as "awareness". It's not the same as "personality".
The personality is the sum of the thoughts of a person about him/herself. It exists because there is a mind. The mind creates thoughts and the thoughts create mind and personality.
The personality and the mental life (the mind) are dissolved after death. But awareness continues forever. It's what we ultimately are, a self-aware fragment of the Creation. It is extremely reductive to claim that we can only perceive ourselves as a personality. That claim seems to me like a confusion between personality and individuality.
David |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 02:46 pm: |
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Hi Scott, Mehraein and David,
Scott, thanks for that reference on CCB. Also read a part of the new FIGU bullitin 41 Feb 2008 on pg 23 comments explaining communication after death, magic tricks, ESP, Supernatual and Celestial connections and other nonsense.
David and Mehraein, on that same page of the new to me... FIGU Bullitin 41 it states: consciousnes ceases at death. |
Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 06:06 pm: |
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Rarena,
I believe that Billy is referring to the material consciousness (the personality or psyche).
About your suggestion that the consciousness ends with death: how can a spirit-form exist, and yet, only be aware of itself when it is in connection with a physical body?
David |
J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 113
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 07:33 pm: |
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Hello David Borthwey, Salome
Greetings to All, In Peace,
David, you write:
>> "Hi think that the word "consciousness" is being used too indiscriminately here and producing mis-representations". <<
A very good observation, quite true in my opinion.
Allow me first to quote from the Talmud Jmmanuel (TJ). I have two copies of the Talmud, and comparison is interesting. The first (1st) quote is from the first edition, published in 1992 by Wild Flower Press. The second (2nd) quote is from the fourth edition, published in 2007 by Steelmark LLC. Both are copyright by Eduard A. Meier (Billy). The German translation is followed with the English translation.
This is TJ chapter 7, line 12, referring to a response to prayer:
*** (1st) "Denn wer da bittet seinen Geist, der empfangt, und wer da durch die Kraft seines Geistes suchet, der findet; und wer da bei seinem Geiste anklopfet, dem wird aufgetan."
*** "For those who ask of their spirits, receive; and those who seek through the power of their spirits, find; and those who knock at the door of their spirits, to them it will be opened."
=== === === === ===
*** (2nd) "Denn wer da bittet seinen Geist (Bewusstsein), der empfangt, und wer da durch die Kraft seines Bewusstseins suchet, der findet; und wer da bei seinem Bewusstsein anklopfet, dem wird aufgetan."
*** "For whosoever asks of their spirit (consciousness), will receive; and whosoever seeks through the power of consciousness, will find; and whosoever knocks at the door of their consciousness, to that person will it be opened."
=== === === === ===
My understanding here, is that the spirit is EQUATED with consciousness. However, I'm not so certain that consciousness may be equated with awareness. My thinking is that consciousness GIVES RISE TO awareness when the spirit manifests (incarnates) into the physical body. This is only my opinion, and I could be wrong in this; your thoughts would be welcome on this point.
From reading OM, Canon 20, this knowledge is given: "Creation is spirit and spiritual force, light, and truly pure spirit energy in conscious form." The spirits of all human beings, throughout all the universes, are sent forth from out of Creation itself in uncountable numbers from before the Ur-beginning of the of the material universes. The spirit-forms carry forth also the fragment of consciousness which IS from Creation. This is so in order to enjoy the journey through the path of EVOLUTION of the spirit / consciousness. The process of evolution of the spirit takes effect through continuous cycles of reincarnation into the material / physical realms in the billions and billions of years. When the evolution reaches perfection in all knowledge, power, experience, virtue, wisdom, and light, then the completed spirit has no further need for reincarnation and will eventually re-unite with Creation itself.
Salome
Let Our LOVE show in all actions,
J_rod7
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Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 09:29 pm: |
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Greeting to All
Borthwey, ok personality and consciousness would be dissolved after death, but i think self-awareness and self-identity of the spirit would be remain till next incarnation. if not, we can not explain the uniqueness of each spirit from the beginning of Its creation
Best Regards
Salome
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Markc
Member
Post Number: 594
Registered: 06-2000
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:13 pm: |
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Hi Mehraein ;
I think that the next incarnation's personality only connects with a past lifetime's personality traits and impulses through the comprehensive consciousness block . In other words , the spirit itself does not hold on to anything , rather , it retrieves information during sleep and meditation of the next lifetime .
Mark
Mark Campbell
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Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 08:41 am: |
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Here are my thoughts on this:
We have a human consciousness, but we ultimately are a tiny speck in the sea of Creation, an individuated entity wich uses our lives as humans in order to gain experience and knowledge.
After death, the human personality ceases its activity. To my understanding, we then perceives ourselves, not as a human, but as the "tiny spark". I believe that it is possible to have a hint of that perception while in the body, I believe that I have had that "hint". In a way, it is not me as I know myself now, it's something else. But the point is, it is an existance.
I am not so worried about what will happen to what was me, instead I am looking forward to experience myself as something wich is complete happiness, complete possibility, complete warmth and self-satisfaction, unlimited wealth. I see death as the pot of gold in the end of the rainbow, that I will get no matter what. Should I think differently?
J_rod7: "My thinking is that consciousness GIVES RISE TO awareness when the spirit manifests (incarnates) into the physical body"
I was referring to consciousness and awareness as states, not as things. If one uses one of those words to mean a thing, then the other can be used to mean a state created by that thing. Wich is to say: the use of those words can produce many complications if one gets fixated on the exact word used.
David |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 152
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 04:11 pm: |
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Hi David
Re: I am looking forward to experience myself as something wich is complete happiness, complete possibility, complete warmth and self-satisfaction, unlimited wealth. I see death as the pot of gold in the end of the rainbow, that I will get no matter what. Should I think differently?
you are of course welcome to think as you want about what happens in the hereafter death-life, but that is not in line with Billy's teachings about what happens.
the part of you that wants that experience you mention above, is the material consciousness -- which has desires, needs, wants -- and it is only the material consciousness that could desire this. and experience that if it was possible -- which Billy says it isn't.
Billy describes the spiritual consciousness as being unconscious, whilst animating a body and also in the hereafter death-life.
Even when the spirit consciousness no longer needs to animate a human body, even then, when it becomes conscious, and no longer will reincarnate, therefore will not be part of inbetween death-life states, even then, that consciousness will not be the same as that which we have with the material consciousness -- there will be no personality/ego as such, but only a unique individuality due to the many experiences over its material existence. And it will be part of a we-form, thus its existence would be very different to our individual ego-centred material consciousness.
Even when Billy had the experience of going into null time, it was his material consciousness that was able to interpret the experience -- and it did so from its base of material, limited ability, limited experience.
This is my understanding of the teachings.
Robjna |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 08:08 pm: |
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David,
Thanks for interesting comment. you talked of (complete happiness, complete possibility, complete warmth and self-satisfaction, unlimited wealth),,, if spirit could not have self-awareness , self-consciousness (in fine_matter Realm)and keeps its individuality how could feel the said privileges you mentioned here?
Best Regards
Salome
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J_rod7
Member
Post Number: 114
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 02:37 pm: |
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Hello Scott, Mehraein62, Rarena, and Robjna,
Warmest Greetings to all, In Peace,
Scott, I appreciate your comments on the CCB (Collective Consciousness Block).
>> "In this Spiritual realm of the Comprehensive Consciousness Block are all unprocessed factors of the old Personality resolved and transformed into neutral-logical impulses which are transferred and integrated into the Spiritform in it's own Spiritual Realm" <<
A question comes to my mind: How Are ALL UNPROCESSED FACTORS OF THE OLD PERSONALITY RESOLVED? How can this be? This seems to imply that the lessons of the just-prior life will be forgotten. And seems to imply that in the next incarnation, the evolution of the spirit / consciousness would need to begin anew. I know this cannot be correct. I think I may be mis-understanding what you say here.
If you would please, tell me, where (what) is the SOURCE material wherein I may study about the CCB. Thank you.
Mehraein, I follow your postings with interest. I see in you a spirit well along in logical thinking, seeking to learn more, to find growth and understanding in truth. Wherein you write:
>> "...we are not separated species of Creation." <<
You are correct in what you say here: We spirits ARE always a part of the Creation Spirit. Our connection with Creation is indeed Eternal, else we could not ever find our way "back home". By "home", is meant our eventual re-unification with Creation itself when we all complete our cycles of perfection. Allow me to re-state from my prior post. IMO, this is good food for thought:
From reading OM, Canon 20, this knowledge is given: "Creation is spirit and spiritual force, light, and truly pure spirit energy in conscious form." (This is also re-printed in the FIGU pamphlet = "49 Questions").
And these are my thoughts (not from the OM): The spirits of all human beings, throughout all the universes, are sent forth from out of Creation itself in uncountable numbers from before the Ur-beginning of the of the material universes. The spirit-forms carry forth also the fragment of consciousness which IS from Creation. This is so in order to enjoy the journey through the path of EVOLUTION of the spirit / consciousness.(The Joy of Life). The process of evolution of the spirit takes effect through continuous cycles of reincarnation into the material / physical realms in the billions and billions of years. When the evolution of spirit reaches a level of perfection in all knowledge, power, experience, virtue, wisdom, love and light, then the completed spirit has no further need for reincarnation and will eventually re-unite with Creation itself.
Rarena, wherein you write:
>> "The CCB ... receives the recently lived life and it's experiential learning ceases after the death of the human being. It may not evolve after that,..." <<
In light of the foregoing above, how then would the spirit continue to EVOLVE if there is no continuity in what is gained from one incarnation to the next? Again, perhaps this is my own mis-understanding, for which is the need to study the SOURCE material regarding the CCB.
In consideration also, is that our spirit-forms are come forth from Creation since before the birth of this Solar System, before the birth of Gaia herself. In the prior billions and billions of years, then we must have each completed reincarnations in OTHER STAR SYSTEMS. And we will continue reincarnations in yet other star systems when Gaia will no longer sustain any life ( as when Sol reaches the end of HER life-cycle and burns down into a white dwarf star ). Surely, will we each not go then our separate ways to these other NEW stars? Or perhaps we all migrate together as one human family. This thought appeals to my feelings / psyche, as it is that we have all taken this part of our journey here on Gaia together.
Indie, it's a pleasure to see your postings again. You have been busy, Yes? Your comments to David are very appropriate. It is hoped that one can look beyond "the froth" into the depth beneath. Some will seem to get stuck on the semantics without seeing the essence. As has been said before, >"The Spirit of the Law is more Important than the Words which are Written"< (paraphrased, of course). ((PS, have ordered the full HoloSync program, will keep you apprised. Thank you for the referral)).
Salome
Let Our LOVE show in all actions,
J_rod7
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Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 03:49 pm: |
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Indi: "Even when Billy had the experience of going into null time, it was his material consciousness that was able to interpret the experience -- and it did so from its base of material, limited ability, limited experience."
That is what my "complete happiness, complete possibility, complete warmth and self-satisfaction, unlimited wealth" reference was. I was illustrating a certain perception that I had when, about three years ago, I was standing in front of a mirror and doing a breathing exercise while looking at myself in the eyes. I don't remember the exact moment when I had the perception, what I remember are the thoughts that I had about it immediately after. And those thoughts I tried to illustrate with words. That is the purpose of using words: to evoque something, to try to re-create perceptions.
I perceived the one in the mirror as a finite human being in a temporal identity, immersed in his mental life, slowed down by his thoughts. And I had an impression about the spiritual entity. Wich, as I have described before, was tiny compared to the All, yet it could have (experience) anything (hence the "unlimited wealth" reference). A feeling similar to being the son of the richest man on Earth. You don't own anything, but you can have it all.
While I didn't experience myself as the spiritual entity, I had an impression about its nature and I was able to perceive my current identity from its perspective.
Indi: "Billy describes the spiritual consciousness as being unconscious"
Unconscious conscience? See the contradiction?
In the Introduction to the Spiritual Teachings it can be read:
144. To always think again and again about the fact that the spirit is omnipotent-always present, all-knowing and, beyond this, endless luck, endless beauty, endless value, actually the value of all things-lets the word Creation become absolutely important for the human and brings forth evolution-related changes within him.
The spirit is omniscient (all knowing). It is pure consciousness and being. What the spirit knows is what to us may be unconscious, let's not transform that into a suggestion that the spirit is unconscious of its own knowledge.
Also:
6. The spirit and the consciousness are on the look-out for what is perfect, for harmony, for peace, cognition and realization, for knowledge, wisdom, truth and beauty, for love and for the true BEING, all of which are of absolute duration.
In a sense, there is spirit and there is consciousness, two different things. But, it is possible to become one with one’s spirit in consciousness.
My view is that mind and thoughts are tools of creation in the physical universe. Spirits don’t have minds, and are in that sense unconscious. However, a spirit is a consciousness.
David |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 12:45 am: |
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thanks David,
J_rod7
thak you so much for comment, I really enjoy to read your comments and also other dear members.
1-yes this is right , I already almost have lost my Goal ,myself, my life and now nothing more important to me except to learn the Spiritual Lessons and If i can , make more spiritual life a little more improvement. as Roomi (very famous Sooufi and Spiritualist Poet)says: ""..I was Dead now I,m Alived, I was cry now I,m sneer, ...the realty of Truth has come and now I become real eternity.
2- I wonder ,can i have more clear words about yours:...<<>> Could Not ever?!!. It doesn't mean the famous Permanent Punishment in Old triangle religions that in my thoughts it is very idiotic , unreasonable religious term as you also know it well?
3- you mean the human(spirit) evolution only and merely take place in Material/physical realm? It could be acceptable but not understandable enough but full of wonder.
Best Regards
Salome
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Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 233
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 07:17 am: |
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Stafath: "About the Lyran names Phi_spiral I think that "Stafath" is not a Lyran name because it sounds more like Plejaren to me."
Just FYI, I'm pretty sure I read that there are no actual Plejarens, per se, reincarnating on Earth. I don't recall where - maybe someone else remembers.
Regards
Bob |
Stafath
Member
Post Number: 33
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 11:50 am: |
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Hi Phi_spiral,
My past life e.t memories date far back before the Jmmanuel was born. Any information about what race has names such like Sfath, Ptaah, Stafath. etc? they all sound similar. |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 235
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 03:39 pm: |
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Hi Stafath,
I understand what you're saying. Your best course of action is probably to post a question about your situation and the name 'Stafath' in the Ask Billy section when it opens up again - which should be coming up at the end of this month.
Regards
Bob |
Stafath
Member
Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 01:48 am: |
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Hi Phi_spiral,
Agreed. I'll wait till that thread has opened again then.  |
Pledja
New member
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 03:56 am: |
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Hi all
When one reincarnates does the spirit stick with the same race?Im asking this because im trying to pinpoint which race i most likely had past lives in.
thanks |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 236
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 01:36 pm: |
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Hi Pledja and welcome!
The tendency is to reincarnate in the same race but it is not the overriding factor. As you read more of the material, you will discover that there was a lot of inter-racial mixing and genetic engineering going on in Earth's history. And there are interesting stories of space travelers stranded on Earth who interbreed with the locals. So it won't be as clear cut as you may think. If you search the forum archives in both The Planet Earth>>Races as well as Spiritual Teachings>> Reincarnation you will find some good discussions of this nature, as this topic has come up before several times.
But I think the most succinct answer to that can be found in an answer given in the Questions to Billy section, dated July 27, 2003:
"Actually, reincarnation doesn't depend on the skin color, but on the education and civilization and evolutional level of a person, a group of persons, peoples, nations, etc. From this follows that, as an example, a white US American person may reincarnate as a black US American person, and vice versa. And an educated European scientist will not reincarnate in the Amazon jungle among a native tribe, etc.; and a person who strongly or fanatically believes in Islam or Jewish faith (e.g. who lives in Arabia or Israel, etc.) will not incarnate into a well-educated family in Sweden or Holland, etc.
What really matters regarding reincarnation is the level of evolution (of understanding, knowledge, freedom of thinking, culture, etc.) of a person, both on a personal level, and also regarding the surrounding society. The average level of evolution/civilization of a nation has an influence on the location of incarnation of a spirit form.
An average Swiss person (or rather his spirit form) who is accustomed to (more or less) freedom of speech, democracy, security, welfare, pluralism, etc., will not reincarnate in Arabia or some other country where religion has a strong hold on the everyday life of the citizens. (As a rule: The more religious a nation is, the more opposed to progress it is, and the less evolved with regard to civilization/technique etc. it is.)"
Regards
Bob |
Pledja
New member
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 03:21 am: |
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Thanx Phi_spiral!
This fully makes since,It shows that we dont have to really "start over".I read alot of Billy's material and i find that he is telling the truth.I read the +/- Male/Female
Creation has to keep it balance is it true a male would be a female in the next incarnation and vice versa?i control my thinking on this but its very weird for me at the time because im currently a male.
Thanks |
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