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Message |
   
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 237
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 09:07 am: | 
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As a follow up to my post 233 above, the information that no Plejaren has incarnated on Earth can be found in Contact 57. |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 315
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
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Welcome Pledja,
It is my understanding the reincarnated spirit-form changes personality from lifetime to lifetime, yet, sex is determinded by genetics alone...
Salome,
Rarena ô¿ô |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 316
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:51 am: |
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Found this in a small search in the Questions to Billy section:
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 08:07 pm:
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Hi Billy
Thanks for your answer that the chromosomes are the determining factor for the gender of a new born baby.
Supposing, there is a person, before he dies, he has a strong will and every reason of becoming a man again in his next life.
My question is: Is there any chance that this spirit will engage with an embryo with XX (female) chromosome? What would happen then?
Thanks
Savio
Billy's Answer
Contrary to knowledge, wish factors (Wunschfaktoren) are not (cannot be) transferred into a next life. After the end of one’s life the personality is dissolved before an entirely new one is built up.
The gender is determined by genetics alone. |
Rarena
Member
Post Number: 317
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:18 pm: |
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Dear J_Rod7,
Thank you for your comment:
...Rarena, wherein you write:
********************************
>> "The CCB ... receives the recently lived life and it's experiential learning ceases after the death of the human being. It may not evolve after that,..." <<
In light of the foregoing above, how then would the spirit continue to EVOLVE if there is no continuity in what is gained from one incarnation to the next? Again, perhaps this is my own mis-understanding, for which is the need to study the SOURCE material regarding the CCB.
***********end quote**********
This comment was of course, concerning this stage of our specific consciousness/spiritual evolution... specifically our material consciousness... which only adds a very, very, very, very, very, small part to our CCB or total consciousness evolution. The percentage of this evolution this lifetime we currently living, depending on your individual total spirit-form age... is maybe .0001% which although small... can be very significant depending on the evolution gained.
My unsureness expressed above concerning evolution continueing after death in your post114 above... was if our spiritform continues to evolve based on *this* life... at our current stage of evolution... does it gain more growth via fluidal energies?, which if you're buried... continue to function for a certain period of time *after* death of the body...
Did not read this comment until today... Sorry for the delay...
Again thank you for the comment and question it is greatly appreciated...
Salome, Be greeted in peace and wisdom...
Rarena ô¿ô |
Phi_spiral
Member
Post Number: 239
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 04:42 pm: |
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Pledja: "...is it true a male would be a female in the next incarnation and vice versa?"
The answer of genetics alone is somewhat incomplete since Billy was answering a specifically formatted question. Billy gives a better explanation of the process elsewhere:
"It is the new personality that has been created by the comprehensive consciousness block (Gesamtbewusstseinblock) that steers/directs the developing embryo in order to remain a female body or to become a male body. This process is made possible by the spirit’s force/power. The spirit form is responsible for the necessary impulses for this process, but the spirit form itself does NOT decide about the gender. It’s the new personality and its aspects/goals/etc. that determine the gender of the developing baby/human being."
Regards
Bob |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 123
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 07:40 pm: |
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Hello Rarena,
we can read very clearly in Billy,s material that:
1-spirit continues his/her learning and evolution in beyond , after death of current body until the time of the next incarnation.
2- High Council of Andromeda makes control and manage the beyond realm of this world , the same as its material section
Wish You Luck
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Indi
Member
Post Number: 172
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 05:07 am: |
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we can read very clearly in Billy,s material that:
1-spirit continues his/her learning and evolution in beyond , after death of current body until the time of the next incarnation.
2- High Council of Andromeda makes control and manage the beyond realm of this world , the same as its material section
Well, that is not what I have read in either case!
Robjna |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 124
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 06:38 pm: |
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Robjna,
You mean I made a mistake? or It would never be some thing like this in Billy,s materials, ...or you got another meaning from a very simple and clear sentences?
Salome
M45
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Indi
Member
Post Number: 173
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 01:32 am: |
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I am sorry Mehraein 62 -- I did not have time to go into more detail, thus the very short comment I made.
Before I make a comment on what you said in your post though, maybe you could point to where you found this information that you seem to think was very clear?
If you do that, and I can also view it, then I can comment more specifically.
I will say though that the way you have expressed those comments of yours, does not 'appear' to be in line with the way I have learned about those topics -- however, I must take into account that your English skills may cause some confusion in this regard, so please if you can give me your sources, that should clear it up. :-)
Robjna |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 125
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 07:36 am: |
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Robjna,
you can find the subject exactly in An Interview with a ufo Contactee/Page 45/question 8/first paragraph that says:.((..when human beings die, their spirit form leaves their physical bodies in the current realm and crosses over into the spiritual realm of the Beyond, where the spirit form rests and learns until it is able to reincarnate into another material body....))
So, Is not enough clear in Billy,s owen language? and we need more interpretation? I don't think so, this time any thing is related to my English skill
- Also for the other subject (managing the Beyond of this world by the High Council of Andromeda) that I,m sure I did read it recently , any time I find it I can show you , or others can sent the exact words of Billy at this subject.
-
Salome
M45
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Scott
Moderator
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 12-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 08:35 am: |
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Hello,
I would think the only "learning" that takes place in the fine material world regarding the spirit is the receiving of the neutralized impulses received from the CCB. The spirit cannot evolve on its own, because it is not conscious at this point of its evolution. Perhaps the statements in the Interview with a Contactee need to be updated or clarified.
Scott |
Badr
Moderator
Post Number: 310
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 01:57 am: |
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Hi Rob,
Moved your post above no # 135 to the following section and topic:
FIGU's Discussion Board » General Area » Non-FIGU Related » Andrew's Book Club
Salome, Badr |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 174
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 05:57 pm: |
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So, Is not enough clear in Billy,s owen language? and we need more interpretation? I don't think so, this time any thing is related to my English skill
To add to what Scott has already mentioned -- the problem I have with your post, even though it is taken from a publication, is that words do not convey the complete meaning and can easily be misinterpreted.
You seemed to be responding to a post by Rarena, where he said:
(>> "The CCB ... receives the recently lived life and it's experiential learning ceases after the death of the human being. It may not evolve after that,..." << )
Your post appeared to be saying he was incorrect.
However, what Rarena said is probably correct in that experiential learning is not the so-called learning that is happening but the learnings from what is being processed. After processing, and no more 'learning' can come from the data in the CCB, then the process that is called 'evolving' or accumulating power, will not happen until more data/learning arrives that can be transformed into that power.
The term "zu lernen" does mean to learn, however, some people will read that and maybe see it as referring to 'active learning' and others who already know about what happens in the hereafter from the teachings, will see it differently -- that the so-called 'learning' is part of a passive process, and therefore, maybe not the best word to describe what is actually happening. Maybe a better word would be 'acquire'.
With regard to your English skills -- I don't think you should become defensive about my comment, as it was a statement of fact rather than one of a derogatory nature -- the evidence from your past posts shows that SOME of your English writing is incomprehensible ie., unable to be understood. I appreciate the fact that you do communicate in English and please continue to, but I have noticed with non-English speakers on these forums, that the level of ability can lead to errors in interpretation and communication.
Here is a simple example of something you said just now in another post:
but nobody dident know any thing
this actually means the opposite of what you were trying to say -- although most English speakers would have understood your intent. What you said there actually means "everybody new something".
So, please understand that clarity and correct understanding and context are much more important than the words themselves.
The issue of the spiritform learning and evolving in the hereafter in between incarnations, is not as simple as the statement you made sounds. That was more my issue than anything. Without more information after putting that on the forum, it will lead some people to think that the spiritform is actually having 'experiences' of some kind in the hereafter -- which it can't, as it is not 'conscious'.
And in fact, your quote from the booklet actually supports what Rarena said rather than correcting what you thought was an error, due to the reasons I have mentioned above
If it had not had an element of confusion to it, I would not have responded as I did!
How the spirit form manages to 'learn' is of importance in understanding the role that each part of human/spirit existence plays.
Robjna
PS. All I can hope is that I have not confused you and everyone else more after this post  |
Mehraein62
Member
Post Number: 128
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 06:12 pm: |
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Robjna, thanks but:
(PS. All I can hope is that I have not confused you and everyone else more after this post
"everybody new something".?!!)
There are a lot of contradictions in Forum Members explanations with Billy,s basic materials and in general, so who or what is the permitted source for interpretation of Billy, and FIGU materials?
Salome
M45
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Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 06:28 pm: |
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Robjna,
Where did you read that the spirit doesn’t experience the reception of the neutralized impulses from the CCB?
DG |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 175
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 08:20 am: |
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Hi DG
Using logic, if the spirit is 'unconscious', which the teachings say it is whilst still at this stage of evolution, then, if follows that it cannot 'experience' anything whilst in the hereafter, just as it does not experience anything whilst animating a body. It is just 'there' and is a power source -- it doesn't do anything, or think etc......
I was basing my comment on my understanding that to experience something, there must be a faculty that can do that, and awareness/consciousness would be in my mind, that faculty necessary.
Passive receiving is not the same in my way of thinking.
I have not seen this particular information written down, it is more a logical process that leads one to understand what must happen.The info is more likely to say what 'is' happening rather than what is 'not' happening in the hereafter.
There are a couple of books on the topic that I have not finished reading yet -- Leben und Tod, and Wiedergeburt, Leben, Sterb........und Trauer.
If I do find a more detailed explanation in the texts I will put it on the board.
Of course, I could be incorrect as well.
Robjna |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 472
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 10:09 am: |
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Just to add a bit to Robjna's explanation (I will yield to her more advanced level of knowledge of these things however :-), I was under the impression or understanding that the spirit is conscious but in another form than the material consciousness. As I understand it, the material consciousness consciously evolves in active form while the spiritual consciousness is merely aware in a passive consciousness form, thus still conscious but not actively involved in decision making etc. If I understand further, the spirit doesn't actually learn in any form as we understand it because it is the comprehensive consciousness block which proceesses the knowledge from the formerly lived physical life, followed by the storage of the processed knowledge in a neutral-positive, spiritual form. However since the comprehensive consciousness block and spirit together are part of the spirit form, maybe BEAM was refering more to the spirit form than to the spirit alone when he spoke of the spirit learning in this capacity.
And for those to whom it may concern, I would like to publicly thank Robjna for being a real friend and putting up with me even when I would be considered unbearable by others. Thanks Robjna... |
The_original_dave
Member
Post Number: 202
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 10:33 am: |
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Hey guys,
As we all know, the spirit is in an unconcious state, at it's current stage of evolution. So, when is it that it starts being concious? I suppose it is when it reaches the AA level, right.
Salome
David |
Borthwey
Member
Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 06:44 pm: |
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Robjna: ”I was basing my comment on my understanding that to experience something, there must be a faculty that can do that, and awareness/consciousness would be in my mind, that faculty necessary.”
What about dreams and near-death experiences? Aren’t they experienced while the person is in a state defined as unconscious?
DG |
Indi
Member
Post Number: 176
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 07:35 pm: |
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Hi Thomas
I personally get great pleasure meandering through all the information on material and spiritual consciousness, trying to make clear understandings of it all -- but it can become quite confusing -- especially when things are written in German, translated from German, written by German speaking people in English, and written by people from other languages eg., Dutch, like Jacob/Jakob/Jakobjn is, translating from German to Dutch and then to English.
In all that, things can get lost, changed, transformed, and convoluted to say the least.
This topic could be one of those. And, to make it more interesting I will offer you something you have already read from Jacob, and another snippet from Hans on the German forum, which should open up the confusion a little more -- although, it offers a clue to what the real story is :-)
Firstly, this is what Jacob had to say on this forum:
The Spirit form of material human beings does not have a conscious spirit consciousness, but a UNCONSCIOUS spirit consciousness.
It's only conscious in a way that it can learn from logical impulses, but it can't make conscious decisions like people can do in the material realm.
Humans have in their material lives a ego based selfaware consciousness, while the spirit has a unconscious spirit consciousness.
If the spirit would be self-conscious like the material consciousness it would absolutely try to control the material consciousness, because the material consciousness, aka the Personality has a habit of NOT following the Natural Creative Laws and Commandments.
As you know the only way for material creatures to evolve is to make mistakes and to learn from them, making a mistake is per definition a positive or a negative thought/action, and that is impossible for a absolute logical structure like the Spirit.
In this case, the spirit would block the material consciousness of making mistakes, but that would cause a stagnation and a paradox situation, and the material consciousness would be unable to learn and provide the spirit of new knowledge and wisdom.
And now here is something Hans said that just offers a direct statement, that changes my understanding quite completely, hopefully in the correct direction. And, of course, as with all this, it finally is beginning to make sense:
Die Geistform ist keine Bewusstseinsform sondern jene Kraft, die alles ermöglicht und am Leben und in Funktion hält. Sie wird nicht aus dem Bewusstsein heraus erschaffen sondern sie ermöglicht dem Bewusstsein und jeglichen weiteren Vorgängen im Menschen die Funktion.
Hans
And here is my unofficial translation of that segment:
The spirit form is not a consciousness form but a power, which makes it possible to maintain life and function for everything.
It is not created out of consciousness, but it makes the function possible for the consciousness and each further processes in the human being.
Robjna |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 475
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:43 pm: |
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Thanks Indi but of course I have something to ask about as usual because it niggles at me: If the spirit form is not a consciousness form, then why is there, even at our stage, something called a spiritual consciousness if it isn't a consciousness form? Also didn't BEAM once mention that the spirit is indeed aware of itself even though it doesn't actively participate in conscious evolution at our stage?
I know that it's a big can of worms to open , but like you, I enjoy the searching and figuring out stuff almost as most as just hearing about it from BEAM directly!
Have a g'day and say hello to the bird for me
:-)
Thomas |
Thomas
Member
Post Number: 476
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:52 pm: |
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Found the quote from BEAM I was refering to in the Q and A section:
Hi Billy
It was mentioned that a spirit will be in an unconscious consciousness state until it reaches the level of Arahat Athersata.
As your spirit was returned from Arahat Athersata, where your spirit already achieved a conscious consciousness with a personality, I would guess that being a human, your spirit will again be in an unconscious state just like all other human on earth, this is to prevent the conflict between spiritual and material consciousness.
My question is: After you passed away from this earth, would your spirit regain that conscious consciousness state, where your spirit can decide where to go, what to do, when to reincarnate again?
Salome
Savio
Answer
The spirit is always in a state conscious/aware of itself (in einem sich selbst bewussten Zustand).
It was the consciousness that had to start from scratch again.
It’s not the spirit that decides „where to go, what to do, etc.“. |
Truthseeker
Member
Post Number: 315
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 05:28 am: |
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Question to Stafath,
If you feel a strong need to leave this Earth on a UFO, then I'm most curious to know what you feel here regarding this and why? Note that such feelings may not necessarily be past life related.
Peace in knowing,
James Truthseeker |
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